SGOTM3 Rome - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3.jpg

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Original GOTM16 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm16_rome.shtml)
The Draft Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)

This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.
1. Non-Oscillating War variant. You keep a list of opponents and the order in which you meet them.
2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.
4. You must declare war on the second Civ you met on the same turn that the first Civ was eliminated or 20 turns has elapsed (whichever happens sooner). This is to prevent sandbagging.
5. After each opponent is eliminated or 20 turns elapse you must declare war on the next civ in the list.
6. If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

Have fun, and good luck everyone!

Thanks m-b! :)
Greetings to fellow members of team mauer. Taliesin here.

Alright, I am the commander of this rag-tag no good for... J/K. Don't have a clue why the team is name after me. I can only assume/hope there are better players than me on this team, cause if not, we are in trouble! :lol:
Ok, lets get everybody up in her, then we'll make some decisions. I hope there is a stronger player than me, cause I don't really want the opening turn. I think the only one of you I know is Detlef Richter from Ainwoods training game. So this is my official sign in.
Our team:
Mauer (checked in)
Detlef Richter
Sark6354201
Slicknick1136
Taliesin (checked in)
Alamo
I submitted in the SG for nonvariant. But, if everybody else wants to play it I will. How about the rest of you.

Checking in, non variant sounds good for me.

Good starting spot.

Checking in for PTW127 SGOTM3.

Non-variant for sure, unless you want to go for broke (as in broken nose).

Starting is easy - stand pat and irrigate that game, right?

As for being the team leader, better you than me. It was a chore last time.

Suggestions

Decide up front if we will have a fixed rotation or simply adapt to whoever can go next. Fixed is better for people who don't check in very often, while adapting allows everyone to play.

Adhere to the 24 hour deadline to receive your turn, and 72 hours to post turn results. Failure results in a skip.

Hi all. I'm in and i would say "NON-Variant" too.
Which Civ version do we play? (Vanilla, PTW)

I think we need some kind of "Moderator". It should be a person who playes not his first SGOTM. Bevor we can start, we have to make some decisions. Like the settling position, our search path, our main goal and so on.
I also prefer a fixed roster.

Fixed roster sounds good to me. I assume Mauer is our "moderator"-- we might as well, given that he's the leader. We should pick our order... the best player should go first. I hope one of us is in that elite group who wallops emperor and can win at deity. I occasionally win at emperor, though the constraints of this game will force me into more micromanagement (I hope) that should improve my performance.
As for our starting position, I think it's pretty much a no-brainer to settle where we stand. If anyone really, really wants to move, we could take a risk on moving SE to the next hill-- it looks like there's more grassland on the other side, and my hunch is that there might be access to the sea not too far from there. However, I think it's safest to stay.
Maybe we should mine the BG one tile west, then build a road to the wines? Otherwise, we have to keep our second warrior back.
It's inviting to follow both arms of that river. It looks likely to provide another great city position to the SW, and if my hunch is correct will lead to ocean to the SE (a surmise founded on Rome's historic position). Secondarily, we can probably find iron in the hills to the north.
Game strategy-- (I might as well cover everything in one post :D ) I'm easy with whatever you all want. I suspect we have no hope of winning through domination or conquest-- others will simply be faster. If we do manage to expand like mad with our Legionaries, then I suggest we convert it to a 100k win as quickly as possible. I guess we'll see how it shapes out.

Just for info. All but maybe one or two of the very top players are in variant teams. I have allowed this because of the difficulty of the variant. If you choose to play a non-variant game you will have a very good chance of receiving the Green Laurel for highest Jason score. For those of you who are not familiar with Jason, it rewards rapid expansion and fast finishes. So whatever victory condition you decide upon, for a high score the early game should be played to expand as quickly as possible - right up to the domination limit if you can. At this point you can then go after the victory condition of your choice.

IMHO this game would be a great opportunity to practice this skill.

Thanks for the advice mb - it's always welcome (and needed)!

My preferences:

Fixed roster is probably easier to handle with 6 people - you snooze you loose.
Mauer moderates - calls the shots on turn order, when to skip, etc.
Settle on the spot
Research pottery 100%
Build 4 warriors and send them to the corners of the world

Romans: Militaristic/Commercial - Warrior Code/Alphabet - Legionary

My general strategy would be to establish a core and build a legions of Legionarys.

BTW, what difficulty does everyone play in personal games? I play monarch.

Sounds good alamo.
I think the romans are very good for our early and fast expansion.
Normally playing Monarch or Emperor but not more.

After pottery we should streight go to iron and than to monarchy for our early warmongering. What say the others?

If no one would start, i will do it.

Detlef-- go ahead if nobody else minds.
The tech plan sounds fine.
As for expansion/building, the warriors sound good. I normally stop after two, but since we can upgrade them, it should work. Remember we will likely need to keep at least one back for a while.
Alamo-- how big a core do we want? 8-10 cities? What placement formula (if any) should we use?
Hopefully slicknick will sign on soon, so we can get started.
Preferred victory condition?

A core of 6 cities for sure, 10 if we can fill out the second ring. We must use Ring City Placement (RCP) to get reduced corruption - radius 4/6 or 5/8, depending on the lay of the land.

For those not familiar with RCP, distances are 1/tile for 'X' direction (moving to an adjacent tile) and 1.5/tile in the '+' direction (moving to a diagonal tile). Distances are rounded down for corruption purposes, so radius 5.5 -> 5.

Nothing beats domination, as mb seems to suggest. Here are the Jason dates for GOMT16, which are the expected victory dates for each condition.

_920AD Domination
_950AD Diplomatic
1150AD Conquest
1300AD Space Race
1525AD Cultural 100k
1760AD Cultural 20k

Nobody move until Mauer gives the go-ahead!

Usually go the more peaceful route than the warmongers path, so I'm probably not the best man to go with to start off an early war or a risky one.

Good at Monarch, beaten emperor but I'm not good at it on a consistent basis.

Don't want to start since I am unfamiliar with RCP, I like OCP.

I was just kidding about the leader thing. But because of popular demand I accept. From this point forward you are all to refer to me as Sir Mauer. :joke:Settle where we are and work the BG to the W sounds fine to me. This is a standard map, so I think Domination is a good goal. I took a look at the global player rankings and it appears that Alamo is the highest ranking and most experienced, so I think maybe he should lead off. Unless of course Detlef has already picked up the sav.
Suggested roster is (subject to team scrutiny):
1 Alamo
2 Detlef
3 Sark
4 Slicknick
5 Taliesin
6 Mauer
Once we get a little more exploration done, I can look at it in CRPRings and we can kind of get an idea of our core RCP.

Nobody move until Mauer gives the go-ahead!
This is my official go ahead for you Alamo.

I think Slicknick may have made a poor life decision, and having broken his PC, gone and bought a Mac. So he may not be able to play. You still have 5 players, but I do have a deity level player looking for a team...

I think Slicknick may have made a poor life decision, and having broken his PC, gone and bought a Mac. So he may not be able to play. You still have 5 players, but I do have a deity level player looking for a team...
Deity you say......hhmmm. I'll take'em as long as everybody else is game.

Cool :cooool: I'll inform him.

I can go ahead and start - the first round is pretty slow so it has 20 turns.

Got it.

Save is >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_BC3050_01.SAV)


Civilization: Rome
Difficulty: Emperor
World size: 5000 tiles (Standard 100x100)
Landmass: Mystery - atypical - 52% Water - not Pangaea
Geology: young and rough (3 billion)
Environment: temperate, normal
Barbarians: Roaming, graphically enhanced, regionally intense**
Rivals: 11 Preset (no added bonuses)


F10/View Space Race says: Greek, French, English, Babylonians, Russians, Germans, Aztecs, Iroquois, Indians, Japanese, and Americans! What, no Chinese?

4000BC(1) - Found 01_Rome (I add numbers to give sort order in F1 some use). Start warrior. Sci/Lux to 100/0 for Pottery in 15. Worker to 4 (West - number keypad direction).

3950BC(2) - Worker mines BG.

3900BC(3) - Null
3850BC(4) - Null
3800BC(5) - Null

3750BC(6) - Warrior1 complete. Start another (can support 3 free). Warrior1 to 8 (North).

3700BC(7) - Warrior1 to 8.

3650BC(8) - Mine complete. Move citizen from grapes. Border expands in 3, so move Worker to 1 (bonus game tile). Warrior1 to 8.

3600BC(9) - Worker starts 10-turn chop - 10 shields will go to granary. Warrior1 to 8.

3550BC(10) - Warrior2 complete. Start another. Warrior2 to 4 (West). Warrior1 to 8.

3500BC(11) - Borders expand to game tile and new citizen born, but it is a clown. Sci/Lux to 70/20 for Pottery in 5. Greek warrior appears at SE border. Alex has BronzeWorking, but not willing to trade for WarriorCode+10g. Warrior2 to 4. Warrior1 to 8.

3450BC(12) - Warrior2 to 4. Warrior1 to 8.

3400BC(13) - Warrior3 complete. Start barracks (granary prebuild). Warrior3 to 6 (East). Warrior2 to 4 - coastline spotted. Warrior1 to 8 - pink border spotted.

3350BC(14) - Warrior2 to 4 - definite ocean. Warrior1 to 8 - contact France. Joan is up 4 techs with nothing to desire from us! I can't even buy Pottery (due in 2).

3300BC(15) - Warrior3 to 6. Warrior2 to 8 (turns North). Warrior1 to 9 - spots coast (going around border). Sci/Lux to 10/20 for Pottery in 1 (savings of 3) - it must have been traded around! Military advisor says we are weak vs Greece and France.

3250BC(16) - Discover Pottery and start BronzeWorking. Switch 01_Rome to Granary. Can trade Alex WarriorCode+Pottery = BronzeWorking+10g. Neither Alex or Joan have a 2cnd city yet - whew! Start IronWorking. Sci/Lux still at 10/20 since it's 40 turns regardless. Maybe we can buy some techs from Joan with more gold (have 23 now). Warrior2 to 8. Warrior3 to 6. Warrior1 to 8.

3200BC(17) - Warrior2 to 8. Warrior3 to 6 - spot Greek boundary. Warrior1 to 8 - definite ocean.

3150BC(18) - Warrior3 to 6. Warrior2 to 8. Warrior1 to 8.

3100BC(19) - Forest chop done. Worker mines. Warrior3 to 6 - spot ocean, incense and a stack of Greeks - Hoplite,Warrior, Settler and 2 workers?! Warrior2 meets English scout. Liz wants an arm and a leg for techs. I take CeremonialBurial = WarriorCode+9g in the hopes of trading it to Alex when he gets his next tech. Warrior2 to 8 - spices! Warrior1 to 7 - avoid French Warrior, spot lake.

3050BC(20) - Warrior3 to 1 (intend to turn S past Greeks). Warrior2 to 8. Warrior1 to 8. SCi/Lux to 10/30 for new citizen. Granary in 5.

Summary:

01_Rome is size 3
Met Greeks, French and English
Obtained 3 techs and started Iron Working
A granary complete in 5 turns
Our military is weak (3 warriors)

Here are the distance 5 spots from the palace for the inner ring. A spot near the other bonus game is good, but we should grab a spot near the greeks sooner rather than later.

The next player will have to keep asking around for tech trades before we get left in the dust. Hopefully we can trade Ceremonial Burial to Alex when he gets his next tech (if he's not researching it now!)

I suspect there's another civ further north. Keep sending Warrior1 north.

I suggest we build more warriors in between settlers. That will keep tribute demands down and help with the barbarians that will start appearing soon. They're just roaming, but we could use the gold and vet warriors.

The F3 screen can give hints about barb camp locations, as well as our military strength (hit the more link).

Also, STOP the worker from mining and start irrigation! I was having second thoughts at the last moment, but game is +2 food, so grass+irrigation+game-despotism = 4 food! That should allow growth in 3 turns vs 4. We should be able to get a decent settler factory running.

Hmmm... we should grab near Greece, I agree. Also, the site directly (more or less) north looks promising as an early settler factory or dedicated military centre (with the flood plain and bonus grasslands).
Nice-looking row of sites along the coast to the west, as well.
Should we start with one city in each direction, or should we focus on one or two directions?

Definately looks like some good sites. I opened the save with Rings, and it looks like maybe we might be able to get an extra city or 2 in the core at RCP4. The dots are just suggestions. Take a look and let me know what you think.
This is emporer so once the other civs start trading, we are gonna fall behind on tech pretty quick. Do you think maybe we should put the tech at 0%, save the gold and buy techs untill we can get in a broker position?
Also, looks like the French are gonna have some pretty good room to grow up there and they aren't too far away. Presuming they don't get horses, they shouldn't be a problem militarily for a couple thousand years. I think the Greeks got stuck in a pretty crumby area, so maybe we should think about getting to the French sometime pretty soon. After we get Iron Working that is. Just my thoughts, however naive they may be.

It would be nice to see what's south, the terrain to the east looks crappy, so other than a city to complete the ring I would say try to stay away from the east.

Something should be sent south soon I think, the river most likely continues along with the grassland and other goodies like cattle might be there.

Got it. I play today afternoon and post tomorrow.

Some comments:

It looks like a good position. I think the greecs expand to our direction, so our second city should be on an easter position. Then we can go to the NW direction. If we are strange enough, we should start with France. They have no early UU (instead of greece). We should start as fast as possible with our second city. After this we can explore the S. Our starting position is at the S, so we have no great landmass at the S.
If i can finish a settler, i stop to decide on which position we want to settle.

I have removed Slicknick from the roster and added zamint3 in his place.

I do have a deity level player looking for a team...
It can't be me MB's referring to. :rolleyes: , but I'm looking forward to joining the team. :)
I have a lot of reading to catch up with, and I have problems updating to 1.27f. I get this french message about a wrong CD. I've PM'ed MB about this, but if you have the answer I'd be happy to here from you. :confused:

Welcome to the team, zamint3. Sorry, ne parle francais.

I prefer to complete the first ring before going in any direction, just to be sure I get a solid core running quickly. RCP 4 always looks too cramped to me. Rome can grow to size 12. I have to try that ring tool thingy.

I intented Warrior3 to head South in the next few turns. The land looks good enough to send a settler in blind, though.

Can anyone figure out how the factory will work? I started to work on it last night but my brain started hurting.

Originally Posted by alamo
Welcome to the team, zamint3. Sorry, ne parle francais.
Thanks alamo, I should be able to use 1.21f, so that's what I'll do for now! :)
I've had a look a the save, and RCP4 sounds good to me, I prefer a somewhat tighter RCP on higher difficulty levels.
We could have a very nice 4-turn settler factory on the red spot :

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/City-2.jpg

It's not on the river so it should run 4-6 (or 4½-6½). It'll need one mined deer and one irrigated deer, so maybe the worker should complete the mine on the deer. :crazyeye: (Sorry. I don't know if you played yet, Detlef. :mischief: )

Btw: I'll test how corruption will influence this idea! :confused:

Welcome to the team Zamint :wavey: You can just jump in Slicknick's spot in the roster. You beat me to the punch :p I took a look at the city, and read this article The case for Food (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_food.shtml) , along with Bamspeedy's Deity settler (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) . It looks like Rome is looking at 6 turn settler turn over, maybe 5 if my finite math skills are incorrect. That looks like a good spot on zamint's red spot, I think just one shield should be hit for corruption right?
I noticed we didn't have any MP in the city. Since units don't cost per turn in despo, maybe we should have a warrior there. It would save us 2 gpt. Also, we can see the river mouth open up to a sea tile to the south. If this is the case, Greece is gonna have little to no room around us. We need to get that settler factory up pretty quick.
I usually play with a 3/6 RCP on standard. Considering that the French and Greeks are so close, 4 intsead of 3 or 5 would be good for a ring size. I think RCP4 will still allow for some pretty decent city placements.

Hopefully we have iron next to us, if not this could really suck lol.

We should start mining those hills eventually, then we could start pumping out legion units from Rome while we expand with our other cities.

Looks like a hard game.

3000: MM Rome to build granary in 3 turns

2950: nothing happens (only exploration with no news)

2900: nothing

2850: Rome build granary and i switched to settler
MM Rome to grow in 5 and build settler in 6 turns

2800: nothing

2750: met America (they have masonry but not for sale)

2710: nothing

2670: nothing

2630: nothing

2590 Rome build settler, i stay at another settler but it can be changed

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/mauer_SG003_2590_pic.JPG

Our S looks like snowy and cold weather. I couldn't discover all of the S but it looks like a bad settling position.
It seems that our biggest problem is the tech race. We have to be careful to didn't fall behind.

:eek: OOps, i've dona a failue. I have to submit the save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_BC2590_01.SAV

:eek: OOps, i've dona a failue. I have to submit the save.

I downloaded the save and see no failure. :crazyeye:
What's the problem?

I would still put the settler on my red spot though. ;)

I've forgotton to submit it to Mad-Bax for the statistics. But now it's OK.

I've forgotton to submit it to Mad-Bax for the statistics. But now it's OK.
Oh sorry, I thought you made a major mistake in the game. :blush: :lol:
I got confused by the year 2590, I think the next player should play 11 turns until 2150, so we can compare ourselves with the other teams. :cool:

The dates are not so critical - the graphs can accomodate anything.

No tech trade with Alex?

I can't tell - did the game get mined or irrigated?

The next settler should go to the W for a settler factory if Rome won't do, as zamint3 suggests. In fact, the current settler could be diverted back W.

Looks like Sark6354201's turn now.

FYI - Classic GOTM is now available.

My preamble: Since I have never played an SG before, I am not keen to all of the do's and don'ts of critiquing. I'll be the first to admit that I can be some what of a jerk, but rest assured I won't say anything intentionally to be a jerk. I am very seldom right about my ideas in civ3 so if I say something dumb tell me. If I do something dumb in the game tell me. Short of you saying something demeaning about my God :king: , or my family I won't get :mad: .

With that said, I would like to say a couple of things about the sav so far. As you can see our research right now is not top notch, nor will it be for some time now (i.e. IW in 26 turns). I don't think it is gonna be possible to outresearch the AI in the early game, especially in the techs that are in higher demand. So any tech that we end up buying, trading for, or conquering, that we are already researching is a waste of the $$$ it took us to research any percentage of. So what I am basically getting at is, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to go to 0% research for a while? Then just buy techs untill we are in a better situation economically.

Second thing I noticed after opening up the save was tech deals already available.
For example: France will trade masonry for 2gpt and 43g.
will trade wheel for 3gpt and 37g.
America will trade masonry for 2gpt and 49g.
will trade wheel for 3gpt and 44g.
I'm not saying we should take any of these, just wondering about everybody elses opinion.

Thirdly, MP in Rome. Unit support is 0 cost right now. but it is costing us 2gpt on the lux slider to keep Rome from rioting. IMHO I think it would be best to have a single warrior in Rome to save this money.

And finally :banana: , worker actions, and moves. I know it is important to get tiles up and running, like forest chop, BG mined and so on. I think it might be a little less wasteful to go ahead and road tiles we have just finished improving. Wasteful is kind of a harsh word, but I couldn't think of synonym for it :crazyeye: . Roading adds gpt on worked tiles. So I think this is kind of important. If roading and improving tiles conflict, maybe we should consider another worker. That might be a good idea since we will have city #2 very soon (hopefully on the red dot ;) ).

I agree about the building of roads. I usually automatically build road after improving a tile, and only recently stopped doing this. I just played a practice all-out military game, and the biggest obstacle was an insufficient road network.
As for the techs, as long as it's just gold that we can offer, I suspect we're better off waiting. We only need a couple of techs to start building our military machine, and once we get going with that, tech becomes a lower priority. I suggest we aim to have Literature by the time we're somewhat into our major campaign, and then use our second leader to rush the GL. Otherwise, if we beat a civ within an inch of their life, we can probably clean out every tech they have. I'd be careful about wasting gold on tech (if we have a monopoly or uncommon tech, then we should trade it for all its worth).

Just thought I would add after running my mouth, be sure and keep an eye out for my award winning "Blunder of the Game" :lol: .

With that said, I would like to say a couple of things about the sav so far. As you can see our research right now is not top notch, nor will it be for some time now (i.e. IW in 26 turns). I don't think it is gonna be possible to outresearch the AI in the early game, especially in the techs that are in higher demand. So any tech that we end up buying, trading for, or conquering, that we are already researching is a waste of the $$$ it took us to research any percentage of. So what I am basically getting at is, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to go to 0% research for a while? Then just buy techs untill we are in a better situation economically.

Second thing I noticed after opening up the save was tech deals already available.
For example: France will trade masonry for 2gpt and 43g.
will trade wheel for 3gpt and 37g.
America will trade masonry for 2gpt and 49g.
will trade wheel for 3gpt and 44g.
I'm not saying we should take any of these, just wondering about everybody elses opinion.



You are right Mauer thats a basic, we should decide.
@trading: Our biggest problem is that we have not enough money to handle such trades.

I don't know what's the better way, Tech to 0% and collecting monay for such trades, or searching by our selfes on higher grade.

So any tech that we end up buying, trading for, or conquering, that we are already researching is a waste of the $$$ it took us to research any percentage of. So what I am basically getting at is, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to go to 0% research for a while? Then just buy techs untill we are in a better situation economically.

The AI seems to know how close you are to discovering a tech. So if you are a few turns from discovering a tech, it gets much cheaper, and the money invested is not totally wasted.
Anyway, atm we are only spending 1 gpt researching, that's a pretty cheap tech. ;)

Looks like Sark6354201's turn now.

Adhere to the 24 hour deadline to receive your turn, and 72 hours to post turn results. Failure results in a skip.

1 Alamo
2 Detlef just played
3 Sark skipped
4 zamint3 up now
5 Taliesin on deck
6 Mauer

Sorry Sark, but I'm not immune to it either.

so if I say something dumb tell me

Ok, I think I stand corrected about the tech research. :p

actually, I saw your status online just now. So if you want to post a got it, then go ahead.

24 hours? what are you talking about, it hasn't been 24 hours. I have others things to do you know...

Yes, I have it, posting it..

2590 BC Switch to worker in Rome
Move LUX down to 10%
-I disagree with moving the settler towards the Greeks... I think the spot isn't productive enough so I'm going to move the settler east towards the game

2550 BC Settler moves, nothing

2510 BC Nothing

2470 BC Worker complete, moving both of them onto resource square on river next to the new city

2430 BC Trade Ceremonial Burial and 56 gold for The Wheel from Greece
Greece is now polite
Start mining of resource square

2390 BC Nothing

2350 BC Warrior complete, begin settler construction

2310 BC Meet Russia, trade Alphabet for Masonry
Russia is still annoyed, looks like they are fighting someone as well (archer with 1/3 HP)

2270 BC Begin road construction

2190 BC Move workers onto game resource square

Looks good Sark! :goodjob:

We'll have a 4-turn settler factory in Veii in no time. :D

Comments :
I have never built a worker this early, it may be a good idea, I'm curious to find out!
The third shield (and #9) in Veii is wasted, if Veii gets connected to Rome it's number 4 (and #10), so we gain one shield by building a road. :)

Originally Posted by Sark6354201
2470 BC Worker complete, moving both of them onto resource square on river next to the new cityIt looks like it's on the river, but actually it's not. :sad:


I propose we put our next city just north of the cow.

I'll play later today, I don't know if you guys on the other side of the pond will be up yet, but I would like some input on city placement and trade, there are several options. :cool:

Just catching up. I had a 'missing phase' in my electric power that disabled the big aplliances like A/C so I was sweltering in the 100F temperature yesterday!

Trades: I usually avoid the 20-turn deals early on, especially when doing minimal research. I can usually buy it for a lump sum or find a better deal before 20 turns.

Research: Doing the minimum can pay off - 10% or a lone scientist in some stagnant town. If we get Polytheism it will be very valuable for trade.

Roads: I usually build a road on the first visit to a tile, but I skipped the very first tile to get to the game tile quicker.

1st Settler: The first settler was torn between the settler factory and grabbing the East land before the Greeks. There's one Greek town over there now - send the next settler over there!

City placement: Your choice among the radius=4 spots.

2cnd Worker: I've always heard that it's nice, but I'm usually too paranoid to build one before my inner core is established.

River tiles: If the tile has 2 commerce then it's riverside.

24 hr Rule: It's harsh, but better to keep things moving. Everyone will get tired of the game after about 3 weeks.

I propose we put our next city just north of the cow.

I'll play later today, I don't know if you guys on the other side of the pond will be up yet, but I would like some input on city placement and trade, there are several options. :cool:

Just wanted to point out that we have horses. Doesn't really matter as much as I initially thought it would. I was thinking that maybe we could take on greece with horses, but I don't think they would favor very well against hoplites. Plus like somebody else said, we should be able to find iron pretty soon.

City placement: Just my opinion. That would be the general area where I would settle. Then I just prioritized which tiles I consider better spots.

BTW, the rings viewer is from Dainthus's CRp Suite (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902). I think that's what it is called. A really handy program.

Research: Doing the minimum can pay off - 10% or a lone scientist in some stagnant town. If we get Polytheism it will be very valuable for trade.

I agree, but if we get Iron pretty soon, and we don't have Mysticism, I suggest we buy Writing from Liz, and start on Code of Laws at 10%. I suspect the AI to go for Map Making. :confused:

City placement : Next settler north of cow (1), after that N or NE of the wheat towards the Greek, and then north. :cool:

Turnlog
2190 BC Preflight
Micromanage Rome and Veii, #3 shield is wasted so Veii is working the mined deer, Rome will grow anyway.

2150 BC Turn 1 :
Rome grows to pop 4, slider up to 20% lux.
Warrior1 is moving towards the blue border (Germany ?)
Workers start chopping.

2110 BC Turn 2 :
Rome completes settler and starts on one more. Settler is moving south.
Slider down to 0% lux.
We somehow met the Babylonians (they are blue as well), and now almost everybody know Mysticism and the Germans.
We sell Masonry to the Greek for 56 g.
We buy Mysticism from France for 71 g.
We buy Writing from England for Mysticism, 24g + 3gpt.


2070 BC Turn 3 :
Veii grows to pop 2, slider up to 30% lux, warrior on his way to Veii to do MP service.
We have somehow met the Germans, they are a slightly lighter blue. They have Iron but it’s not for sale.

2030 BC Turn 4 :
Warrior in Veii, slider down to 10% lux.

IBT :
See two Russian archers get killed trying to take a German city.

1990 BC Turn 5 :
Antium founded N of cow, starts on warrior.
Russia and England have Horseback Riding, but it’s to expensive.

1950 BC Turn 6 :
Workers have chopped the forrest and starts irrigating the deer.

IBT:
Alexander demands Writing, :eek: I give it to him, we are still Mysticism up on Greece.

1910 BC Turn 7 :
Horseback Riding has been traded around but is still too expensive.

1870 BC Turn 8 :
Workers complete irrigation, worker1 starts road, worker2 moves onto bonusgrass.

1830 BC Turn 9 :
Rome builds settler and starts on warrior. Settler will move east.
Slider down to 0% lux.

1790 BC Turn 10 :
Antium builds warrior and starts on one more.

1750 BC Turn 11 :
Veii builds granary and starts on warrior.
Settler moves onto forrest N of wheat, next city should be founded here, it can share thewine hill with Rome.
Worker1 completes road and moves onto bonusgrass.

Status: 3 towns, 1 settler, 2 workers, 5 warriors.
Score 128, we are not last!
Iron Working in 5 turns.

Note: Horseback Riding is for sale, and Babylon has got workers for sale as well.


Here's the Roman empire :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Roman_empire_1750_BC.jpg

..and the save is >>here<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_BC1750_01.SAV)

I got it. I will play immediately.

Good job so far everybody :goodjob: ! It looks like we're hanging in there pretty close so far, compared to others. I opened up the sav and checked out the available trades. We can get horseback for 2gpt and 51g from France. I think that might be worth it? Bab wants 4gpt and 55g just for one worker :eek: !
Philosophy slingshot? I have only tried it a couple of times, cause the idea is very new to me. For some reason it has never payed off. Maybe someone can tell me if we can shoot for it or not, and how to make it work.

After Taliesin plays, I am going to let everybody check in. Just want to gather everybodies thoughts. Think of a gameplan. Like:
1)short-term, long-term
2)Build priorities
3)When does everybody think we should start building barracks
4)military size, and any forseeable conflicts whether planned or surprised
5)future demands from other civs and things of the sort
Should we allow for a day or 2 of discussion after Taliesin? Just to get everybody on the same sheet of music.

Also remember this is a team effort, so everybody chime in with their 2 cents

The Philosiphy "slingshot", in my experience anyways, only works if you start with alphabet and go after writing fairly soon which we have not. Plus, on Emperor the computer usually gets there before you if you don't hurry and try to get to it.

1. Complete our ring, first near the greeks then up north
2. For me, temples, then barracks, then legions
3. We have time since we don't even have iron working
4. As large as we can get it, and don't goto war with the Greeks, A3 against D3 isn't too great.
5. Accept them all unless we know they are bluffing or we are going to war with them anyways.

Prolly wouldn't be a bad idea Mauer.

EDIT Did I need to submit the save to Mad Bax? I didn't, so fill me in if I needed to do that or whatever the procedure is :)

1. Complete our ring, first near the greeks then up north
2. For me, temples, then barracks, then legions
3. We have time since we don't even have iron working
4. As large as we can get it, and don't goto war with the Greeks, A3 against D3 isn't too great.
5. Accept them all unless we know they are bluffing or we are going to war with them anyways.

Prolly wouldn't be a bad idea Mauer.

EDIT Did I need to submit the save to Mad Bax? I didn't, so fill me in if I needed to do that or whatever the procedure is :)
I saw you forgot to upload, so I went ahead and did it. The link is in the first post by MB.
I agree with #1. #2Building temples this early in the game might not be such a good idea. Well....not a bad idea but. Alanh posted somewhere in the conquest training game about this (couldn't find it though). Basically, unless you are going for culture the shields and upkeep aren't worth it. Especially in despo when free MP is available. With good city managment (use of the slider) the ability to keep citizens content is fairly easy. #3 We will have IW in 5 turns, so this is something either myself or Taliesin will have to face as far as searching and sending a settler, tile working etc...#4 I agree with. #5 as well, untill we get better means of defending ourselves.

About temples, i think it's useless and too expancive for our inner ring at this moment. Our first goal should be expansion, barracks at all towns on the inner ring and then legions until we can build knights. I don't know if we can use the warrior mass upgrade to legions. If this works, we should build warriors as much as we can until we catch iron working. Greece try to make war as early as he can. And we have no chance to stay against them if we waist our shields on temples. Horses against greece UU means tons of dead units on our side, so legions are better at this moment. The better way is the first war against france, but if we wait until greece declares war on us, we give alexander the time to build up his army. I think we should push our unit straight and we should marsh over greece bevor alexander declares war.

A settler goes East - whew! We can support 4 more units free. No sign of barbs yet.

Polytheism is the only way I have gotten an ancient-age tech slingshot. I just did it in the GOTM.

We need a cultural base or we will face higher resistance and chances of flip. Temples are available and are as cheap as a library.

Some pre-builds are ok, but we would need to keep a treasury for upgrades - 40g per warrior? (same as warrior to sword). Also, the higher treasury invites demands, so we need to build units before the treasury to disuade further tribute.

Horsemen are pretty weak, but they do get the retreat. If you build enough of them to be healing while others attack then they can be effective.

Greece will definitely require legionaries in full production. They will get a GA with us, so we will need to be as expedient as possible.

Here we go, my first turn log ever...
Before turn 1
England founds Canterbury on flood plain to northeast.
1 1725 BC
MM Veii to grow two turns faster. Rome builds warrior, which moves west to explore our south (start another warrior). Settle Cumae and start building warrior. Workers mining grass next to Veii's western game. Buy Horseback Riding from Abe for 3 gpt and 40g.
2 1700 BC
Nothing
3 1675 BC
Rome builds warrior, which fortifies. Rome starts building barracks. Likewise for Antium. Workers finish mining Veii's game.
4 1650 BC
Veii builds warrior, which fortifies for MP. MM Veii and Rome-- Veii produces settler in 5, Rome grows in 3.
5 1625 BC
Complete Iron Working. Research Polytheism (40 turns at 10%). Worker begins building road on Veii's forest. Iron appears on hill next to wines.
IBT
England demands 20g. She's annoyed, so I give in.
6 1600 BC
Cumae builds a warrior, which starts to explore toward Greece. Start another warrior. MM Veii to grow 1 turn faster. France, England, and Russia all have Map Making, but it's not for sale.
IBT
Babylonian bowman kills American archer near Babylon. France demands territory map and 14g. It's too great a risk, so I give in.
7 1575 BC
Rome finishes barracks and starts a spearman. Worker begins to build road on wine, and will eventually build road on iron.
8 1550 BC
Nothing.
9 1525 BC
Veii builds settler, starts another (in 5 turns).
10 1500 BC
Antium builds barracks and starts spearman.
Current situation:
France, England and Germany all have Code of Laws. Nobody will sell any tech. Babylon will buy Horseback Riding for 6g (all they have). All opponents have iron working.

Here's the save.
If somebody tells me how, I'll post a screenshot.

I hit the Print Screen button then paste into a graphics editor. For the whole screen you will have to save as a lower resolution file to make it smaller (less color for png).

Iron near Rome! [dance]

First thing I noticed is our worked tiles versus improved tiles. I don't know why I missed this before. After opening the sav, I saw we have a total population of 12 throughout our empire. We only have 4 improved tiles for those 12 citizens. This is alot of GPT we are missing out on. This might also explain why at 10%science,and 30%entertainment we are at -1gpt. I think we need to try and make sure we have at least one worker for every city. Also at the same time trying to balance our builds between military, workers and so on. Roading also helps increase our cash on hand for upgrades, and for defensive relocations.
I also looked at Veii and we can MM to get a settler in 4. In Rome if we change from spear to settler we can get one in 2. So this means I will have 2 settlers to head for a settlement. Any suggestions? I don't generally like to build spearman, especially with a UU like Legionary. Spear is 1/2/1 and Legion is 3/3/1. We don't have Iron hooked up yet, but we will soon, and a warrior can be upgraded to Legion. Since Antium has 2 warriors there, maybe we should change the build to a worker.
Also this is my got it, but like I posted earlier, I would like everybody to check in with their thoughts on our general gameplan/priorities before I post a sav.

Philosophy slingshot?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if it's the free tech, that's only in C3C! :crazyeye:

I also looked at Veii and we can MM to get a settler in 4.
Let Veii complete a warrior first and then we have the 4-turn settler factory running pop 4½-6½, and the shields running 7+7+8+8=30, it'll need all 3 mined bonusgrass! :D

In Rome if we change from spear to settler we can get one in 2.
I agree, and this goes perfect with the settler factory in Veii, as it wont need the mined bonusgrass for the next 2 turns. :)

City placement: #1 settler should move one north and settle just south of the deer, #2 settler should settle 3 tiles N of Rome. After that maybe we should expand more to the north, I suggest the second ring is distance 7-7½.

Military: Warriors only except for emergency situations, and don't connect the iron yet, we'll need more warriors to upgrade, and we don't want our GA now!

We'll have more cash soon, Veii gets another MP, our deal with Liz expires in one turn and the wine is connected in 3 turns. :cool:

Since Antium has 2 warriors there, maybe we should change the build to a worker.

Sounds good. I just set build to spearman as a prebuild/placeholder for whatever we decide to do. Workers are definitely needed.

Slingshot usually means getting a valuable tech before everyone else that can be traded for all the other known techs. In PTW that seems to be Polytheism, but any tech with a buildable wonder works pretty good.

Improved tiles are alway good, but it is very difficult to grab land and build all the workers an un-industrious civ would need to keep up.

I agree on not building many spears - vet warriors until legionaries. How many warriors can we afford to upgrade? Above the troop limit we loose gpt.

More workers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is blasphemy, with that big beautiful river and no roads. Rome should build workers, and so should cumae instead of the warrior (if we're attacked we are screwed anyways right now if an organized army is sent at us). So should antium, worker in 2 turns, growth in 1.

Building a solid core of productive cities that we can defend is what we want, not a far flung empire, well have that later.

Mauer is right, a worker a city MINIMUM. I usually have 1.5 or more per city.

Did not know the correct usage of the term slingshot, are you sure the philosophy free tech is only in C3C? I could of sworn it was in all civs.

More workers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is blasphemy, with that big beautiful river and no roads.
:lol: OK, maybe one more. :lol:

I recommend this build order:
Rome: Settler->Worker->Warrior
Veii: Warrior->Settler->Settler->Settler->Settler (Settler every 4 turns until we run out of free land.)
Cumae: Warrior->worker->worker.
Antium: Worker->Warrior->Warrior


Building a solid core of productive cities that we can defend is what we want, not a far flung empire, well have that later.
We'll have to combine the two! One of the heavy guys once wrote: The three key things to do in the early game is : expand, expand, expand. :D

Cumae should not be left undefended, and we should build a road to Cumae soon, so that reinforcements can arrive from Rome in no time, also the warrior at the Greek border could move south and keep an eye on Greek troop movement.
Anyway we might not se any more demands from the AI as our power should be growing rapidly from now on. :) :mischief:

For cash we could sell our world map around each turn, unless some of you consider this an exploit. ;)



Originally Posted by alamo
Above the troop limit we loose gpt.That should not be a problem until we get Republic. :cool:

Also remember this is a team effort, so everybody chime in with their 2 cents
:thumbsup:

I recommend this build order:
Rome: Settler->Worker->Warrior
Veii: Warrior->Settler->Settler->Settler->Settler (Settler every 4 turns until we run out of free land.)
Cumae: Warrior->worker->worker.
Antium: Worker->Warrior->Warrior



Sounds good!



We'll have to combine the two! One of the heavy guys once wrote: The three key things to do in the early game is : expand, expand, expand. :D

Cumae should not be left undefended, and we should build a road to Cumae soon, so that reinforcements can arrive from Rome in no time, also the warrior at the Greek border could move south and keep an eye on Greek troop movement.
Anyway we might not se any more demands from the AI as our power should be growing rapidly from now on. :) :mischief:

For cash we could sell our world map around each turn, unless some of you consider this an exploit. ;)



That should not be a problem until we get Republic. :cool:

Sounds good again. This should be our path.

No free tech from philosophy! That is a throwback in Conquest!

Slingshot means going from being far behind to slightly ahead, which takes more than one tech.

A far-flung empire is in our dreams right now. We don't even have our first ring complete! I usually have each of my towns build their own worker.

Can I get a summary of the to-do list for my next turn?

I've looked through our posts and i found no decision on which goal we go.
As Mad-Bax sayed, the best chance for a medal comes with an early conquest or domination win. If we go like this, and i think so, we should speed up our offence with a small defence in the back. This means no temples at this moment for our inner ring. Barracks, units, settler, worker should be the only things we build.

:lol: OK, maybe one more. :lol:

I recommend this build order:
Rome: Settler->Worker->Warrior
Veii: Warrior->Settler->Settler->Settler->Settler (Settler every 4 turns until we run out of free land.)
Cumae: Warrior->worker->worker.
Antium: Worker->Warrior->Warrior



We'll have to combine the two! One of the heavy guys once wrote: The three key things to do in the early game is : expand, expand, expand. :D

Cumae should not be left undefended, and we should build a road to Cumae soon, so that reinforcements can arrive from Rome in no time, also the warrior at the Greek border could move south and keep an eye on Greek troop movement.
Anyway we might not se any more demands from the AI as our power should be growing rapidly from now on. :) :mischief:

For cash we could sell our world map around each turn, unless some of you consider this an exploit. ;)



That should not be a problem until we get Republic. :cool:


That sounds alright, though I still think we should build up a really good core of cities then expand while we conquer others.

Selling your world map every turn is hardly an exploit, I think anyone who believes that it would be is nitpicking :rolleyes:

Well, that was certainly some good discussion. :)

Mauer is right
Thinks (Yes, yes.......soon the rest of you will fall prey to my mind control plan.) :scan: It doesn't matter what was said after that. I will bask in it's glory and use it as my comp wall paper.

No free tech from philosophy! That is a throwback in Conquest!
That could very well be the reason it didn't work when I tried it. :crazyeye:

I've looked through our posts and i found no decision on which goal we go.As Mad-Bax sayed, the best chance for a medal comes with an early conquest or domination win. If we go like this, and i think so, we should speed up our offence with a small defence in the back. This means no temples at this moment for our inner ring. Barracks, units, settler, worker should be the only things we build.
Should we decide to go for con/dom then I think you might be right.

That sounds alright, though I still think we should build up a really good core of cities then expand while we conquer others.
Selling your world map every turn is hardly an exploit, I think anyone who believes that it would be is nitpicking
You are right here as well. If you notice in some of the major players spoilers, they generally tend to try and set up "pump cities". Like a worker pump, several warrior pumps and a settler factory or two. I think this is achievable in our game, and zamints suggested build queue seems to the better of our alternatives.

Also as the Team Leader........echoes and applause follow........I would like to give Detlef a field promotion to our official yes man. In case you are wondering what I am talking about check out post #69. When 99% of your post is a quote and you agree......well. :lol: Just picking on you Detlef.

I will post the sav shortly.

Pre turn: Change Rome to settler in 2, Veii to warrior in 1, antium to worker.
alot of map trading end up with 72g in store and almost a complete map. Germany is the only one with Iron hooked up.

1)1475BC America demands 21g and WM, they are weak compared to us so I decline. Abe tucks tail.

2)1450 Rome builds settler, start worker. Found Neapolis start barracks.

3)1425 connect wines and lower entertainment slider to 10%

4) 1400 nothing

5)1375 Cumae build worker, Veii build settler (this should complete our core ring), Build pompeii start barracks, lux to 0%

6)1350 nothing, but comp shuts down. Sounds like my processor is ticking?

7)1325 Found Pisae, start barracks

8)1300 nothing

9)1275 raise lux to 10% due to growth in Veii, stupid comp shuts down again

10)1250 Veii builds settler, lux to 0%. This settler should begin our second ring. Send him West towards spices on coast.

America and Babylon were at war at some point. Saw Greek Hoplites heading North towards??? Almost everybody has Code of Laws and MapMaking. A few have Philo. Russia has math. The price is fairly steep for all of these, with the exception of Philosophy. I am pretty big on buying techs, but I didn't cause it didn't seem to be that popular amongst the team. I'll leave that up to Alamo and the rest. Things can be changed, but for now I have the entire first ring, except Veii, setting up for warrior pumps. Rome, I had working on workers. The Iron is still not connected. I was trying to have the workers work on the tiles in Rome first to get all of the citizens making good production. Then started to work on roads to the each city.


Warning: Greece is annoyed with us, and if you look at the map they are running out of room on there side of the mountains. So be prepared. I

Oh yeah, the sav....... :rolleyes:
The dots are just suggestions once again.
For some reason I can't open the submissions page to upload the sav.

Ok, got it. I should build temples, right?

Buying techs is fine, but gpt deals go in increments of 20.

Greece is choked pretty good. Attacking Sparta and taking the core would be a good strategy, when the time comes.

Ok, got it. I should build temples, right?

Buying techs is fine, but gpt deals go in increments of 20.

Greece is choked pretty good. Attacking Sparta and taking the core would be a good strategy, when the time comes.
Well, I think the general consensus was that we would develop our military. If we are planning on taking anybody on, the shields would probably be better spent on building warriors for upgrade. Plus the temples require an upkeep of 1gpt, and this could easily be offset by using MP/slider. So I think (just my thoughts) don't hook up the iron just yet, keep building warriors, and keep a good stash of gold for upgrades. Probably sooner than later though with Alex eyeballing us funny.

Sorry, brain fart. Just remembered this.

Weaker than:
Germany, Russia, Greece

Average to:
France, England

Stronger than:
Babylon, America

1250BC Preliminaries

Contact with 7 civs on our continent - large conquest ahead! Other 4 must be elsewhere.

Backward in tech - must be emperor! 25 turns until Polytheism, unless Sci>60. Joan offers best deal - Phil = WMap+130g or Code = WMap+180g. I take Phil for WMap+112g, since we're still weak vs Russia. We're up Horseback on Babs - let's see if they get anything worth trading.

14 warriors and 7 workers - not bad! We can support 6 more free units. Too bad only 2 warriors are vets. We would need 40x14 = 560g to upgrade.

Still no barbs??? Where are they?

Settler walking to R=7 spot on the spice coast. What, that spot isn't improved yet!

Why is that warrior wandering near Greeks - going to stand on the iron?

What's up with the city names? I add the numbers. We could pack in another R=4 city, just like the Neapolis/Pmpeii pair. It may annoy the greeks, but they're just cautious right now.

IBT: Oracle completed in London.

1225BC(1) - Warriors 1 and 2 still on walkabout - will disband when upkeep hits. Move settler to Mauer's spot. Workers on road gang. I finally realize I can trade Phil for Code - give Abe Phil+Wmap+70g for Code. We can research Republic next, but we probably want Monarchy for warmongering.

1200BC(2) - Rome builds warrior, sends reg warrior to spice town. Ravenna founded, starts barracks. Russia and Germany want Philosophy, but they want too much for MapMaking.

IBT: Forbidden Palace now available. Liz building Colossus - right!

1175BC(3) - Antium builds warrior - send reg warrior to scout south. Average vs Russians, but weak vs Greeks now?

1150BC(4) - Rome builds warrior, heads to Pompeii. Antium build barracks. Set Veii to pop settler next turn.

1125BC(5) - Pompeii builds barracks, starts warrior. Veii builds settler - send it to R=4 spot. Babs get horseback.

1100BC(6) - 3 warriors pop. Iron in 6 turns. Warriors to MP. Finally get a decent offer - trade Cathy MapMake = Phil+Wmap+107g. Trade Wmap around for a few extra gold. There is an island off the East Coast. BTW, if you get an offer of just gold for Wmap then throw on Tmap - it is always agreeable! It looks like Lit may be a tech broker opportunity when everyone has more cash (buy from Bismark and sell to others).

IBT: Cathy demands tribute - a mere Wmap+20g - a pittance so I cave. She establishes an embassy! :crazyeye:

1075BC(7) - Babs send 2 workers in front of my warrior - tempting, but too weak and far away. Rome disorderly, so I hire a scientist and set Sci/Lux to 0/0.

IBT: Germans want maps - fine.

1050BC(8) - 2 more warriors pop. Extra worker on iron - road in 2. Set Sci/Lux to 10/10 so Veii and Rome can grow.

IBT: Horses hooked up, wine mined, all towns hooked up.

1025BC(9) - Another warrior - almost to limit. Found 09_Hispalis on last R=4 spot. Change 3 warriors to spears to wait for iron next turn.

IBT: Iron hooked up - what, no pop-up?

1000BC(10) - Legionary on tap - 40g upgrade. 3 warriors upgraded to avoid any further demands. Strong vs Greeks now!

There were several errors on the submit page, so this save is outstanding.

Well, I think the general consensus was that we would develop our military. If we are planning on taking anybody on, the shields would probably be better spent on building warriors for upgrade. Plus the temples require an upkeep of 1gpt, and this could easily be offset by using MP/slider. So I think (just my thoughts) don't hook up the iron just yet, keep building warriors, and keep a good stash of gold for upgrades. Probably sooner than later though with Alex eyeballing us funny.

Thats what i mean, not all of us agreed on the same plan.

Also as the Team Leader........echoes and applause follow........I would like to give Detlef a field promotion to our official yes man. In case you are wondering what I am talking about check out post #69. When 99% of your post is a quote and you agree......well. :lol: Just picking on you Detlef.




OK, just another quote with an "sounds good". I try to hold this trophy. It's my first award on GOTM games :thanx:

To keep on playing, got it. More tomorrow.

To keep on playing, got it. More tomorrow.
Before you play, note that Ravenna is distance 6 (6½)! :eek:

Ooops, Ravenna is R=6! Sorry - my bad. Go ahead and switch production to settler to move it. Maybe build a worker first. I looked at mauer's picture but I got the wrong spot - I should have zoomed it. :cringe:

As for more warriors, we have 14+ warriors now! How are we going to upgrade them all? There are still several vets worth upgrading, which will take several turns. We can stop the road to Hispalis to build a few more warriors.

So what is the object and timing for the first attack?

I will wait with my turns until tomorrow. We are at a critical step and each of us can post his mind.

Domination is our goal, correct?

I say go for Alex as soon as we can muster 2 x 7 stacks of legions. Head for Sparta and work down through the core before their GA does any good. We get elite promos and use GA to build more legions for France and beyond. Send in a few reg warriors too. Any warrior promoted to vet will get upgraded.

We still need a stream of settlers to cover all available space.

The first MGL should go to FP - probably in French territory.

So what is the object and timing for the first attack?
That's a good question! I'm still thinking. :crazyeye: :confused:

Btw : I uploaded the saves.

Crossposted there! :)

Domination is our goal, correct?I agree!


I say go for Alex as soon as we can muster 2 x 7 stacks of legions. Head for Sparta and work down through the core before their GA does any good. We get elite promos and use GA to build more legions for France and beyond. Send in a few reg warriors too. Any warrior promoted to vet will get upgraded.So you want a Despotic GA!?
Their seems to have been a lot of AI wars, so are we sure Greek hasn't had their GA allready?


We still need a stream of settlers to cover all available space.
I agree!


The first MGL should go to FP - probably in French territory.
We are playing PTW so our GL can build wonders as well, should we ever get one. :rolleyes: :D

Should we bother building armies? I rarely use them, but maybe others use them more. If we have the luxury of a free leader (after the FP), I highly recommend rushing the Great Library in Rome. Just in case our conquest stalls, it'll help, plus the culture boost is impressive. There are two scientific civs that'll be around then-- Babylon, Russia-- so we could use monotheism as a half-slingshot if we have the GL.

One army is good for the Heroic Epic and increased chances for another MGL. Wonders and maybe even a palace jump are definitely options for future MGL's.

Maybe waiting for Monarchy is a better idea, but we had better research it next! In that case we have plenty of time to build (and buy) legions.

If Alex has already had his GA then so much the better!

Ooops, Ravenna is R=6! Sorry - my bad. Go ahead and switch production to settler to move it. Maybe build a worker first.

Maybe we should actually abandon Ravenna after it has build a worker, R=7 would be much better, and Thermopylae would fit in nicely. ;)

After thinking, :rolleyes: , I'd say let the legions march, let's go for an early war with Alex :hammer:, I think we should go for Thermopylae and Corinth first.

When we enter our GA, we don't want to go through anarchy in that 20 turn period, so after researching Poly, I suggest we research Republic, timed with the finish of our GA, at that time we'll hopefully have 4 lux hooked up. :cool:

If we get an early GL, I think he should build FP in Corinth. Paris would also be a nice place. :lol:


Edit: Also I think we should build a galley, so we can explore the islands to the east, this will also make our WM worth more! :)

First thing Detlef, be sure and keep an eye on Rome. If it gets to pop 7 then the granary is useless. When it gets close enough be sure and build a settler or worker.
After thinking, , I'd say let the legions march, let's go for an early war with Alex , I think we should go for Thermopylae and Corinth first.
Well, lets look at the terrain first. What are our adv/disadv? Well, I think it is one in the same....Mountains! What can we do to effectively use the terrain during a war with a very strong defensive AA unit. Maybe artillery :lol: ! It sure would be great if somehow we could get to Athens first and shimmy up North. We will probably need 2-3 legions sweeping the mountains.

A despo GA huh. Well, with Domination our goal the sooner we get things started the better. Effectively started. This is a time to be very careful. A lot of players start getting sloppy about this time (myself for example). By the way I have a nomination for BLUNDER OF THE GAME ;). Don't worry Alamo, it is just the first of many probably. I'll probably be next.

OK, priorities for (hopefully) a short war with Greece.
How many turns away, what is the optimum time frame for it. Gold for upgrades. Enough Legions to wipe out Greece. I say again:Enough Legions to wipe out Greece. MMing cities for maximum output. Proper build queues. If you have doubts, don't be afraid to stop in the middle of your turns and seek advice. We have an established emperor+ player on our team in Zamint3. On the Global Player Ranking is #8. :eek: :eek:

Everybody please check out this post in the succession game forum. They bring up some pretty good points. Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2023242&postcount=228)

This is not in the SGOTM3

Sorry about posting a million times in a row. I just opened the sav and noticed that Russia will give us WM/mathematics/57g, for military alliance against the Germans. A couple of questions:
1)How would this affect any plans to take on the greeks?
2)Would we need to declare war before signing a mil all to keep rep points?
3)What is the probability/likeliness that Germany would send an expeditionary force down our way (they have horses)? And, how would this affect us?
Basically, is it worth it?

Just for a reference:
1 Alamo (played)
2 Detlef (up)
3 Sark (next)
4 Zamint
5 Taliesin
6 Mauer

I say go for it! The Germans are the most remote from us-- they would have to send any force through 3 or 4 civs, then across mountains and hills to reach us. By that point, we'll probably own Greece. The danger of a world war is negligible, I think, because nobody has anything to trade for alliances. In any event, we're distant enough that nobody would send significant forces against us.
The one caveat is that Russia could take all of Germany and swell to become a rival.
How widely known is mathematics? Could we use it to clean up Map Making, Code of Laws?
Another thought... what will we do about all that lousy territory between us and France? I suppose we'd better settle it, or someone else will, but it looks quite disheartening.

1. Might split our forces, and since battles for cities can come down to 1 or 2 units, if we have 1 or 2 legions fighting the Germans we might not be able to take those cities which come down to those last units.

2. Um, isn't it the same rep hit? Your just declaring war. Maybe someone who knows more could clarify, dont pay much to reputation in my games *evil look*.

3. I'd say, pretty good chance. Almost assuredly they would send 1 or 2 units.

Russia will give us WM/mathematics/57g, for military alliance against the Germans.
:evil: But I like it! :thumbsup:

Basically, is it worth it?
I think so, and we'll probably never see any German military, we could keep our northern warrior up there as a lookout. We can allways ally with the French if things heat up. ;)
I don't think we need to declare first, and it should not affect our plans for Greece.

Note that Athens is on a hill, it'll be very difficult to take. Maybe we should make peace with Alex, when we have taken his luxuries. :cool:

OK, let me summarice it:

- we take the deal against germany
- we start the war against Greece, but not bevor we have 3 forces with each 6 or 7 legionairs and have send them to the border of Thermopylae, Knossos and Corinth. If we can take this three towns on the same turn, Alex have no chance to win this war.
- between this, settlers, legions and workers as major builds
- I delete Ravenna and go to R=7
- our tech goal is republic

I play today afternoon, so i check the posts about 16.00 o'clock (GMT+1) the last time. I post tomorrow how it works.

Sounds good to me. :goodjob:

Maybe our next city should be at Mauers #2 spot towards Corinth, and if we can spare some workers they should start roading towards the silk at Corinth.

If we want 3 forces I think we should hit Thermopylae, Corinth and Sparta. :)

Maybe our next city should be at Mauers #2 spot towards Corinth, and if we can spare some workers they should start roading towards the silk at Corinth.



You mean the hill 3 tiles SW of Corinth, looks like a good place.



If we want 3 forces I think we should hit Thermopylae, Corinth and Sparta. :)



Your right, it makes more sence.

That all sounds fine Detlef and Zamint. Knossos looks like it is probably a poor city, production wise. And probably doesn't have but 2 or 3 units in in it. Not much for a counterattack. If we have 3 forces and take Therm, Cor, Sparta, in one turn, then we probably have a good chance at taking them out completely in a relatively short amount amount of time.

I think so, and we'll probably never see any German military, we could keep our northern warrior up there as a lookout. We can allways ally with the French if things heat up. ;)
I don't think we have an embassy with Joan right now. Don't make that a priority though Detlef, unless things get UGLY. We could stand to have a few more Warrior upgrades.

You mean the hill 3 tiles SW of Corinth, looks like a good place.
Actually I think Mauers spot is right between the horses and the deer, that's SW-SW-W of Corinth. :)

Ahh, the swaet little valley between the hills. OK, next settling location.

Do NOT declare war before MA or you won't get that deal! There is no rep hit unless we have a per-turn deal. Germany's attitude will suffer and Cathy's will improve. Cathy is pretty strong, so there is some chance that she will emerge stronger.

Also, having Germany and Russia tied up is a good distraction for our first campaign. There is little chance of having more than a token force coming to us, unless Cathy double-crosses us for some wierd reason.

We need to slow down the tech trading at some point, since legions vs muskets doesn't sound very fun.

Wouldn't Monarchy be better than Republic for warmongering? Less WW, more unit support, more MP's.

BTW, you need to abandon Ravenna by building settler/worker with no growth, or it counts as a raze.

Wouldn't Monarchy be better than Republic for warmongering? Less WW, more unit support, more MP's.
Aahh, the wonderful balance of governments, golden ages, and research. I for one have read so many differing opinions on this........I just don't know. I, for the most part, like monarchy better. Research is a little slower I believe, but hey, who needs research after cannons and cavalry! Unless we can somehow figure out how to keep the civs with iron from getting horses, or civs with horses from getting iron......then knights don't seem to be that good a choice for us. So maybe Republic might be better untill we get to MT. But then again.........oh ask somebody who knows :) .

Go for Monarch. We can always compensate for the slower tech rate by shaking other civs down... With any luck, a rushed GL will carry us into the future. Once we reach the mid-Middle Ages (if that makes sense), I'm thinking we want the global tech rate to slow, and Monarch will be superior for that purpose.

If you have doubts, don't be afraid to stop in the middle of your turns and seek advice. We have an established emperor+ player on our team in Zamint3. On the Global Player Ranking is #8. :eek: :eek:
sorry zamint, after posting I realized I should have said we have an established DEITY+ player... :worship:

sorry zamint, after posting I realized I should have said we have an established DEITY+ player... :worship:
:lol: Actually the only deity game I've ever played was GOTM 20 Spain, where I played Conquest. ;)

...and I just saw that SirPleb reached domination around 200 years before me in COTM2, and he was't even going for domination. :cry:

:lol: Actually the only deity game I've ever played was.......
Ah, who asked you anyways....... :p
Cause you know what they say. If you SirPleb can beat you, you must be sorry! :lol:

Republic is better for research - if you can spend gold on science, unit support AND the lux to keep everyone productive. Of course, once WW kicks in you're toast.

Monarchy is a god tech to trade, too.

So is Republic, any government tech is. Monarchy probably is the better bet so that if we traded it the other civ wouldn't get fat and rich off Republic while we wallowed in our Legion's filth.

OK, here we go:

975: Germany gives literatur for philosophy + 12gpt
England gives world map + 60g for literatur
Veii build settler, i changed to barracks
i changed Ravenna to worker and Rome to settler

950: Greece gives map for map
Ravenna builds worker and was deleted
i started to upgrade our warriors to legionarys

925: Rome build settler, i changed to legionary

900: nothing

875: MM some citys to speed up legionarys
Russia gives contract against germany + mathematics + 60g +
world map for contract against Germany
we are no in front of techs

850: Cumae, Veii and Neapolis build legionarys, i changed Veii to settler

825: Rome and Antium build legionary, i changed rome to settler
found Viroconium and build barracks
found Lugdunum and build barracks

800: Pompeji build legionary
Atztecs build pyramids

775: Pisae build legionary
Greece build colossus

750: Hispalis build barracks, i changed to legionary

No we have two forces with each 6 legionarys waiting near Corinth and Thermopylae and another 3 legionarys waiting near cumae for another 3 legs to went against sparta.
France and England have republic but wouldn't sell it.
The next can start with the war against Alexander.
We are placed not bad, on three at the moment.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mauer_SG003_750BC_pic.JPG

And the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_BC0750_01.SAV

Looks like we have got ourselves an army. :goodjob:

There are 3 things I would like to comment, hope you don't mind. :mischief:

1) I would have placed Viroconium on Mauers original spot SW of former Ravenna, there is more growth potential and we would have had our second lux.
2) I would never irrigate a bonusgrass, and certainly not in despotism. :cry:
3) When roading to connect cities, I would avoid mountains if possible. Mountains (and jungles) take 9 worker turns, forrest and hills 6, and the rest 3 turns, so we can road a forrest and a plain in the same time it takes to road a mountain. :)

Question: Have you seen any Greek troop movement?

Edit : Added a proposal for next 4 cities :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Dotmap_750_BC.jpg

Not only one movement.

I always wonder if the AI can detect those SOD's on the boundary. I usually keep them 3 tiles away until the final march.

Monarchy is slightly better for trading than Republic because of Hanging Gardens, isn't it?

Looking good - maybe the next player should just go for it. The Sparta force could be diverted if we encounter heavy resistance or a bad rng spell taking the first two cities.

OK, here we go:

975: Germany gives literatur for philosophy + 12gpt

875: MM some citys to speed up legionarys
Russia gives contract against germany + mathematics + 60g +
world map for contract against Germany we are no in front of techs

France and England have republic but wouldn't sell it.

Did we just break a per turn deal? :( Sure enough, I opened the save and no deals. "I remember what you did.........." Oh well, does the AI ever get over this, or are we stuck with it for the remainder?

OK, what is our stated goal for this conflict. Lux gain, and expansion sabatoge? One city, destruction?I think att groups A(north) and B(south) are fine, but C(center) should be a little stronger IMHO. The hoplites have a 3 defense, and that's not counting bonuses i.e. walls, hills, forest, rivers. No counter attack problems from hops, but they are sure to have archers at least. Only 2 att, but after taking on hops, we are bound to have some redlines and RNG kicks.

We are getting close to being eligable for Spoiler 1 when it opens. Any nominations or volunteers for write ups?
Just thought I would check the odds on Legionary versus Hoplite on a hill.

Well considering that this is a very pivotal phase in the game, I would like to pause and hear opinions from everyone on what to do and then formulate a plan that we can all follow and agree upon. My feeling as of right now is that we should have two main groups take the two best Greek cities, then have a third one which can mop up anything the Greeks or anyone else sends at our homelands. How much priority should be given to expaning North into those deserts?

I'll play it when I get a chance, probably very late at night, or in the morning I should say :lol:

I think this is a good time for a pause, and besides today (as it is 1 20 in the morning right now) I'm celebrating my 1 year anniversary with my girlfriend :D So, if for some odd reason we can't pause and postulate our strategy, I'm letting you guys know that I wouldn't be able to make the 24 hour deadline.

Just thought I would check the odds on Legionary versus Hoplite on a hill.If he is fortified odds are down to 38.1%, and if it's a fortified veteran on a hill they are down to 22.3%. :eek:

I think this is a good time for a pause, and besides today (as it is 1 20 in the morning right now) I'm celebrating my 1 year anniversary with my girlfriend :D So, if for some odd reason we can't pause and postulate our strategy, I'm letting you guys know that I wouldn't be able to make the 24 hour deadline.
I think you misunderstood the 24 hour deadline. It isn't 24 for hours to play and post. It is 24 hours just to say that you got it. Then it is an additional 48 hours to play it. So in all it is 72 hours to play and post a save/turn log. Congrats on the 1 year too. My one year with my girlfriend is coming up too. And 8 years being married in October. :lol: Just kidding.

Yep, we're stuck with the rep hit from breaking the gpt deal with Bismark. There are outstanding contacts, though. Not everybody knows of our misdeeds.

Lone legionary vs hoplite on a hill is bad, but why bother? They'll just disappear when we take Alex's last town. Just keep them off our iron!

I like the 2 stack idea - much better to have too many troops than not enough! Take out the most productive towns first with decisive action.

Troops are the top priority, but we need to expand as long as there is space available - domination means having 2/3 of the worlds land and pop, right?

Well, we need to get this plan started. Alamo, and Detlef got us on a pretty good pre-war set up. I think we should concentrate on more Legions, and settlers. If you guys think we have enough to go ahead and attack, while keeping a good resupply route running, then give sark some suggestions. Unless of course, he is already playing and has gotten us a pre IA domination win. ;)

What placement formula do we use for our next cities? Do we just keep expanding in concentric rings, or after two rings do we pick using optimal placement, or what? I think we'll have a hard time continuing the rings through the conquest of Greece and expansion into the desert.

I think after the second ring corruption is generally high enough that we just use optimal placement. That's generally what I do, but I have never seen anything written about it.

We can plan for the FP placement. The sooner we get a second core the better.

If another civ was good enough to build in rings, then that is a natural place for the FP. Otherwise, plant some ring cities around the best spot - the one available now or will soon be available.

I'll be out of town the next 72 hours, so I'll have to ask for a skip, :sad: unless you need time to discuss after Sark has played.

War : Let's go! Go for the Greek lux first!

City placement: Let's finish our ring 7 and then seek out the best spots.

Research : I'm still in favour of Republic. :D

Just posting this as a reminder to everybody.
1 Alamo
2 Detlef
3 Sark (playing)
4 Zamint (up next?)
5 Taliesin
6 Mauer

We can probably wait, depending on when Sark post the save. It shouldn't be a problem unless anybody else has has a problem with it. I think the only time needed to skip is if the player ask, or disappears.

I vote we do anything possible to make sure our deity-level player plays. (!!) :king: I think, even if sark posts soon, we could discuss our strategy (or something), or bend the rules, to ensure zamint doesn't have to skip. :)

I vote we do anything possible to make sure our deity-level player plays. (!!) :king: :)
Ok, Ok, I'll play, but we'll let sark and zamint play first! :p

Haha, alright, I did misunderstand it. Glad we got that cleared up.

750 BC Hit the enter key.

730 BC Move the Northern Legionary army Northeast
Disband Northern warrior
Switch Rome to Legionary
Send worker to mine bonus grassland (who irrigated it! *mean face*) jk of course
Moving Southern Legionaries straight to Athens
Establish Embassy in Athens, 2 regular hoplites, Athens is building Great Lighthouse, will be done in 33 turns(-33G)

710 BC Tryed to take a shortcut through Thermoplylae, Greeks didn't let me, oh well, don't lose a turn either way
Northern Legionary force fortifies (6 Legions)
Southern Legionary force is ETA 4 turns to Athens, (8 Legions) with 1 Legion behind it.

690 BC Declare war on Greece, their culture expanded in Therm., so I would of had to anyways.
Take two Greek workers
Found Lutetia
Move one Legion South towards Knossos to protect the two cities with only Warriors

670 BC Neapolis builds Legion, I'm going to keep it there until it builds a worker because of unhappiness
Attacking Corinth
That was easy, Legion defeats Hoplite with no HP loss, 1 worker captured
Golden Age triggered

650 BC Researching Monarchy
Resistance in Corinth ends
Leave 1 Legion in Corinth
Move 5 Legions to Pharsolas
Trade Polytheism for Construction (England)
Takes a deep breath,
30 GPT, w/ Polytheism for Republic from Russia
Switch to Currency

630 BC Warrior defeats Archer (Defending)
Start Revolution
Legion attacks Pharsalos, wins, reaches Elite status (2/5 HP)
Legion attacks Pharsalos, loses, Hoplite down to 1 HP
GRR, Legion loses to a 1 HP Hoplite
Legion attacks Pharsalos, wins, reaches Elite status (3/5 HP)
Pharsalos destroyed (Pop 1)

610 BC Russians and Greeks building Great Library
Legion loses to Archer (Defending)
Legion defeats Archer near Knossos
Legion attacks Athens, loses, Hoplite down to 1 HP
Legion attacks Athens, loses, Hoplite down to 1 HP
Legion attacks Athens, wins, Legion at 3/4 HP
Legion attacks Athens, wins, Legion at 3/4 HP
Athens captured! The Collossus is now also ours
Greek capital moves to Delphi
Moving 4 Legions towards Sparta to join remaining Northern Legions
Legion defeates Archer near Sparta
Domestic Advisor says 5 turns until out of Anarchy (Ugh)

590 BC Legion defeats Archer (2/5 HP), promoted to Elite status
Warrior defeats ANOTHER Archer (1/3 HP), whoever fortified it there, good job!! That warrior kicks ass
Legion defeats Warrior (1/5 HP)

570 BC Legion defeats Warrior (1/5 HP)
The French are building the Great Library
Legion attacks Sparta, loses, Hoplite at 1/3 HP
Legion attacks Sparta, wins, Legion at 3/4 HP and promoted to Veteran
Legion attacks Sparta, wins
Sparta TAKEN, not destroyed, (why did the other one get razed, hmm...)
Legion attacks Warrior, no HP lost, wins

Situation: Gambled that it would 4 turn Anarchy, so we are 1 turn in the hole for money, but hopefully the Republic gamble pays off in conjunction with the GA to pay off the GPT. Argos is the only Northern Greek city, 3 Legions are placed near Thermopalye to try to take it. 2 Legions + 1 (1/5 HP) are stationed South.
We only need Currency to get out of the Ancient Age, we are ahead of everyone in tech or equal to.

Wow :eek: , capture 3 towns, raze 1! Better odds than zamint and I predicted I guess :goodjob: . I think you forgot the sav though sark :crazyeye:

Screen, Save

WOW!! :goodjob: :goodjob: :king:
The anarchy is a drag, but once we get settled we'll have one heck of a legionary machine. One by one, those puny unfortunate barbarians to the north will fall before us! Just looking at the map, we have a much larger area and a higher city density than anyone else. I think we have a solid base for future conquest.

Nice turns, things working well. After destroying greece totally we should go asap against france. High points mean fast win and we are on the best way on it.

Nice bit of warmongering there. A good number of elites, too!

Having to declare war while in Greek territory was unfortunate. AI attitude will probably deteriorate rapidly. We'll just have to clear the continent before contact is made with the other three civs.

I read a post about autoraze once, but I don't recall the specifics - something about having culture in that city (we didn't have any) and another factor (growth or something).

Warrior defeats ANOTHER Archer (1/3 HP), whoever fortified it there, good job!! That warrior kicks ass

I put it there to cover the iron, since he was nearby. I'm not sure who sent him in that direction, though.

Looks like Liz claim-jumped on Joan's spices. Maybe we could get those two to fight each other. :mischief:

I think a city auto-razes if it possesses zero culture. As far as I know, if it has any then it is captured (I could be wrong).

Ok, I have some broad goals. Everyone else please fine tune em.
1) Finish Greeks off. Hopefully we will get a GL to rush FP somewhere up North. Paris looks like a good spot.
2) BUILD MORE CITIES! An absolute must. I know everyone knows, but I feel the need to say it.
3) Get them oars a'rowin! We need more contacts, overseas cities, and overseas victories.
4) We need to start as soon as is reasonable to develop our infastructure on our core cities. Marketplaces, maybe libraries, brothels, etc.
5) Get those unaquired luxuries hooked up.
6) Decide who is gonna write up the spoiler.

Having to declare war while in Greek territory was unfortunate. AI attitude will probably deteriorate rapidly. We'll just have to clear the continent before contact is made with the other three civs.
Our rep already sucks now. Broke a per turn with germany. Notice the 30gpt sark had to fork out so we could get republic. There has been some discussion about whether or not it would be worth while to break this deal with Russia. ATM they are wrestling with Germany, and maybe we could enlist France and/or England to DOW on Russia with us. Then turncoat. Just ideas, let me know. If we are shooting for Dom anyways, we'll have to go at it sooner or later. Just don't want to be up against ol' Frenchy muskets. Not without MT anyways. Oh, and Pikeman will be up with most other civs pretty soon too. We need to check the available Iron resources, and see what we can do to prevent this.
Also, just want to say outstanding job on your battle tactics Sark. I thought you said you were a builder. :cool:

I say break the deal with Russia as soon as we're sure Greece is thoroughly mopped up. If we turn France's and England's attention northward, then our job will be easier (once we plow through Babylon and America! :D ). Plus, we don't want Russia to get too secure or bloated. If we can get them all fighting among themselves, we should be cushioned for long enough to fill out the gaps with cities, build some galleys, and get our military machine starting up. We'll probably be able to use Legionaries for the last time on Babylon and America-- then we'll need knights and mediaeval infantry.
Mauer-- brothels??! Remember that decadence destroyed the Empire! :lol:

Mauer-- brothels??! Remember that decadence destroyed the Empire! :lol:
But at it's height! At it's height! :lol: Just kidding. Wondered whose attention that would catch.

I just noticed something on the sav. There is an unescorted settler just north of Neapolis. We might want to dispatch either that warrior or legionary with him, since we don't know of any german troop movements.

edit: When you wake from the dead zamint, go ahead and play 11 turns. looks like sark jipped himself out of 10.

I prefer to build, but warmongering, though unfortunate, has happened plenty of times in my Civ games. I like to build Temples and Stock Exchanges, not kill people haha.

Ya Brothels, that's what we need, right on Mauer. Should I strike up a Praetorian Guard while we are thinking of these bright ideas? :lol:

I think we should hold off on overseas stuff, awful expensive to build all those Galleys then lose one to a Barbarian or have it sink.
With that being said, building a Galley to try to make contact is a good idea.

On the GPT turn, perhaps we should break it. That way we can get France or some to help fight Russia and they dont get the gold, that way no one becomes a dominant power on our continent.

I don't know if it's good, to support the war of AI against AI. This means, they build up their forces and one of them comes out of war stronger then bevor. Let them do what they do. We can fill up our free lands and at the same time, we should catch one AI after the other. We should go on with the French, because they don't have the UU at the moment. After this, England makes no problems, loosi UU for them. FP at Paris sounds good, let me be the governour, they already have brothels. Some galleys to find the outstanding AI should be done ASAP.

I vote on Mauer to be our writeup master. He is our Sid thinking cheef. (I hope so, thats what he sayed :D )

I vote on Mauer to be our writeup master. He is our Sid thinking cheef. (I hope so, thats what he sayed :D )
Sid thinking? what? who? me? yeah, right! :lol:

edit: When you wake from the dead zamint, go ahead and play 11 turns. looks like sark jipped himself out of 10.
I'm awake, but still groggy! :)
Will play soon! :D

I vote on Mauer to be our writeup master.
I agree on this, that is the privilege of the team-leader. :cool:

Mauer has my official blessing.

Intra-AI war would be great to slow down the tech pace and keep our legions effective longer. Covering the iron is a great idea, if there aren't too many of them.

Contacts now might actually be bad. If we could wipe the continent we would get a fresh start with the remaining 3 civs. If we capture the GL then the tech loss may not be so bad.

Anyone but me for the write-up is ok.

What tech do you need for the brothel improvement? I guess the Arabs get to build harems instead. Egypt should be able to build the Cleopatra Seduction wonder to make Egypt immune from Roman attack. :lol:

Mauer can do the write up, that's fine with me.

Technology for a Brothel? You don't need technology for it, just build a mud hut if you have to. Mmm, mud wrestling... :lol:

730 BC Disband Northern warrior
I have to ask : Why? :confused:

If we break the 30 gpt deal with Russia we'll break the alliance against Germany as well, and I doubt the other AI's will ever sign an alliance again. :crazyeye: , but if we don't, we'll be broke in 3 turns and we'll start losing improvements. (We can avoid this through mm, and a Republic GA comming up. ;) )
I don't think it'll be to bad so I'll break the deal. :evil:

Brothel. Excuse me, we are Romans. I suppose I should have referred to them as bathhouses, which are available with contrstuction (aquaducts). I hate to break deals at all. I really value a good rep in a game, cause you can miss out on so much for just one slip up. But, I think the damage is done already with Germany. So, why not if we are gonna kick butt anyways. Just be sure and break the deal as another deal. Like sign a MA versus Russia that breaks it. Don't just declare war and try and get the Northern pukes in afterwards.

I guess that warrior was disbanded because he cost 1gpt and was way up N.

I usually go to great lengths to preserve my rep, but this deal is really a burden.

We must keep the troops armed and organized, especially when we get to Republic.

Any necessary improvements to the core can be done during the GA, just stagger the builds to keep troops coming.

I guess that warrior was disbanded because he cost 1gpt and was way up N.
Would have been nice for spotting troop movement, capturing workers and such.

We should probably make peace with Russia as soon as possible after breaking the deal (although, given our strength, we can make it a punitive settlement...) so that we don't get dogged by war weariness through our GA. Since the war has no direct strategic purpose other than saving us a lot of gold, it would be more profitable to spend our efforts building up for quick strikes against the southernmost of the barbarians.

No reports of barbarian uprisings yet huh? Does this mean we will be the first to MA. Surely not!?
Edit: Don't forget to look for barbarian clues for MB's "puzzle".

Turnlog SGotm3, zamint3 570 BC Preflight
Change 5 entertainers to taxmen bringing net loss down to –25.
We make peace with Germany for Leipzig and WM.
We buy a worker from Germany for Republic.
We break the deal with Russia.
Workers will connect Rome with our new lux.

550 BC Turn 1 :
Vet legionary loses to an archer on a hill, the archer losing no hitpoints! :mad:
Next legionary kills the archer, and gets promoted to elite 5/5!

530 BC Turn 2 :
Brundisium founded 2 tiles N of Neapolis.

510 BC Turn 3 :
We are a Republic. :)
Do a lot of mm, to optimize production.
Research currency in 6 turns at 60%

490 BC Turn 4 :
Sell construction to France for worker, WM + 11 g.
We take Thermopylae, no losses, one promotion, one worker.

470 BC Turn 5 :
We destroy Delphi, killing 3 hoplites and an archer, no losses!
We give peace to Greece for Knossos, Argos, Mycenae, WM + 12 g.

450 BC Turn 6 :
Establish an embassy with England.
We’ll start moving troops north.

430 BC Turn 7 :
We’ve got 4 lux connected :)

410 BC Turn 8 :
Syracuse founded 2 tiles S of Antium.
Gonzomonium founded 2 tiles N of Pompeii.
Give peace to Russia for Currency, WM + 8 g.
Russia’s got monotheism, we start researching feudalism with one scientist! (40 turns)

390 BC Turn 9 :
Lunacantorium founded in the west.
Neocaledonium founded nearby.

370 BC Turn 10 :
England just researched monarchy, both England and Russia have monarchy + monotheism.

350 BC Turn 11 :
We have 4 settlers, the ones near Pisa and Knossos should settle where they are standing, the one near Cumae should settle just east of the iron, the one near Sparta could go to the spot where a Greek city was razed.

>>save<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_BC0350_01.SAV)

It's late over here and I need to :sleep:
Please comment on the progress and post your ideas for the future, I'll be back in the morning. :cool:

Great job getting all those cities-- it makes our job easier. Leipzig is a good outpost-- if we can get a gigantic force of legionaries up there pronto. Otherwise it will flip to Germany fairly quickly.
To be official about it, I've got the save.
What kind of turnaround are we looking at for attacking France? I should probably focus on filling out the gaps as soon as possible, and then Mauer and Alamo can take care of that particular war. I'll send as many legionaries as possible to the front, but we need some to our south to mop up Greece in the near future.
We can sell any number of techs to the Americans for 25 gold and a map. They're in the Stone Age, so it won't hurt us any. I'll go ahead and do it when I play, unless anyone has an objection.
Medium-term, I think we can safely plan on owning France, England, America and Babylon before our Legionaries lose their advantage. If we can't do quite all of this, we should bee-line for Chivalry and hit Russia before she can get anywhere. The important thing is to take her before she gets Cossacks (I'm sure this won't be any problem), as she is the only one remaining on our continent with a dangerous UU.
I'll probably think of something else before I play (I'll play tomorrow), but I guess this is enough for now. :crazyeye: :mischief:

Well, I guess I am going to work on the spoiler. So if I mess it up, or write something that isn't correct then............oh well. You get what you pay for. groucho
edit: I had to open the sav to get a screen shot, I messed around with the tech to see how fast we could get it and took a screenshot without switching it back. That's why it says Feudal in 10.

What kind of turnaround are we looking at for attacking France? I should probably focus on filling out the gaps as soon as possible, and then Mauer and Alamo can take care of that particular war. I'll send as many legionaries as possible to the front, but we need some to our south to mop up Greece in the near future.
Sounds good to me. Regroup, and tackle France before they get to there UU. French muskets :nono: We need to do something to slow down the continental tech pace. Russian cossacks, French Muskets, and the horrific English dentist :eek: ! Seriously though, any ideas? Knight on Knight, or Knight on bullets doesn't sound good. And I don't think we want to wait for Cav. Save the cash, horde the iron, build horses, and move them to an outer city with barracks for quick upgrade/deployment is the best I can come up with right now.

Great job at all.
The only way is hurry up. Three forces with each 6/7 legionarys seems to be enough against france. If we have enough legionarys, we should DoW England at the same time. So they have no chance to build theire own forces with knights.

Originally Posted by Taliesin
I'll send as many legionaries as possible to the front, but we need some to our south to mop up Greece in the near future.
I agree. :)
There's a galley moving towards Athens, to ferry the legionaries across, if it survives the barb galleys. :eek: (That is btw the only barb activity I have seen)

There is a Greek hoplite running around in the fog S of Syracuse, and I have been kicking the hoplite near Knossos out of our territory for the last 4 turns.
And be aware of the English galley near Byzantium.

Research: I have left it with a single scientist towards feudalism, but it should be discussed, maybe we should go full speed towards chivalry, or maybe we should wait until we can extort or buy monotheism and feudalism from the AI. :confused:

Spoiler : Nice write-up Mauer. :goodjob:

We should search directly to cav and thats all. After this, we need all the money for our units.

@Mauer: what zamint3 say, very funny writup, great job. It's the best at the moment.

We should search directly to cav and thats all.
I agree about cav, but does everyone agree that war should be pushed forward with Legions right now. Remember we are at war with Russia already. They will probably be trickling down some units. France is the obvious next choice. Would be kind of nice to get France to DoW on Russia and then stab France in the back. Then we could sandwhich France, and probably hamper Cathy too. I think Russia is the next strongest, but I am not worried about them getting too strong, we will still be able to over power them.
BTW, does anybody else find it odd that for an emperor level game, AI expansion seems to be somewhat sub par?

Remember we are at war with Russia already. They will probably be trickling down some units.
We are at peace with Russia, and in the 7 turns we were at war, I never saw any Russian troops, allthough Leipzig were undefended at their doorstep! :mischief:

BTW, does anybody else find it odd that for an emperor level game, AI expansion seems to be somewhat sub par?
I guess everybody except England and France are at war, maybe we should establish some more embassies to find out? :crazyeye:

Warfare : We should go after France and England pretty soon, and I don't think we need cavalry to clean up this continent. :D

We are at peace with Russia, and in the 7 turns we were at war, I never saw any Russian troops, allthough Leipzig were undefended at their doorstep! :mischief:
Oh, sorry. I must have skimmed over that detail :)
Edit: I can't believe we conquered an entire nation, and not a single GL :eek: !
@Zamint3: sorry, I will refrain from bubble bursting in the future :mischief:

Great writeup! It looks like we're one of the leaders... We certainly have the largest empire.
I'll play some time in the next couple of hours.

A good post in the spoiler, mauer.

So are we going to wait 20 turns to finish off the Greeks? I'm not sure if it will make a difference in getting another lucrative peace deal.

The game is moving pretty fast! Our curve does look impressive. I guess the ace teams are bogged down in the variant.

Okay, some good news and some bad news from my ten turns. The good news is that a force of legionaries has been assembled on France's borders sufficient to take them out. The bad news is that, seeing opportunity and a favourable position, I declared war on Greece, attacked Alex's two cities, and got stonewalled by the RNG :eek: -- rotten luck. So, there is a small threat of maybe 5 hoplites on our southern border that we'll have to take care of. There are a couple of legionaries in the south, and I'm already sending a good few horses down there. I wanted a surgical strike that would eliminate Greece and prevent retribution, but it seems it was not to be. :blush:
Here's the log:
Before starting-- I trade Polytheism to America for WM and 25 g.
330 BC-- Start marshalling forces toward the north. Found Aesonesium SE of Hispalis and Caesaraugusta S of Pisae.
310 BC-- Begin preparation for war on Greece.
290 BC-- Found Palmyra N of Thermopylae and Jerusalem N of Sparta. Germany has engineering, but will not trade it. The exploring galley finds some barbarians with some interesting names... (see attachment for screenshot)
270 BC-- A flood of American and Babylonian settlers southward begins.
IBT-- GA ends :(
250 BC-- More legionaries moving northward
IBT Russia and Germany sign peace. England founds Liverpool S of Syracuse
230 BC-- Preparing for war with Greece-- moving troops into position.
IBT-- Berlin completes the Great Library.
210 BC-- Nothing much, just troop positioning.
IBT-- London completes the Hanging Gardens.
190 BC-- Declare war on Greece! Invade Ephesus and Herakleia.
IBT-- Our 4/4 Veteran Galley sunk by 2/2 Conscript Barbarian galley! rrgh! This will make the conquest of Ephesus more difficult.
170 BC-- Attack Ephesus with healthy Veteran and Elite Legionaries. They both die, and bring defending elite hoplite only to 3/5. Frustrating.
A little more luck at Herakleia-- one elite Legionary dies, the other survives at 2/5 after killing a defending hoplite.
150 BC-- Troop positioning (read mad rush of troops to the southern border...).

Spurred on by earlier success and hopes of glory, our generals took a gamble on continued decent luck from the RNG. This has created a small problem, one which I'm sure can easily be dealt with. Anyhow, the point is, we have enough legionaries to the north to start whomping France (there are two designated groups, currently fortified, that will take out Grenoble and that other small city, the remainder should all march on Paris, I guess), and we're pumping out horsemen that we can send southward with all speed to overcome Greece. It won't be as quick as I had hoped, but we easily have the force to fight a quick second-front war.

The exploring galley finds some barbarians with some interesting names... (see attachment for screenshot)

What, Alamo turned barbarian, we're doomed. :suicide:

I'm not sure if he should take it as compliment or insult...

Hmm. Don't think I was quite prepared for the terrible news. We got a good spike out of the graph though :goodjob: ! I am gonna have to give it some good studying before I decide what to do. Horses against hops wouldn't be my first choice to pick up on, but hey I ain't getting payed for this. I would like to get a settler or 2 or 3 over on that new continent/island? But I know our priorities are for this continent to be subjects of Ceasar Mauergustus. Man I looked at the trades and we really destroyed our rep. No trades but for straight up gold, and alot of it. Embassies? At this point do you think they are worth it? And finally, a barbarian impi?

Sorry about that situation I've left you with, Mauer. I'll be a little more conservative in future with war declarations. It just seemed Greece would be a bit of a pushover, and I didn't expect them to still have that many hoplites.
I'm confident in your ability to correct my error in judgment!

No problem Taliesin. Wasn't meaning to sound disgruntled. Won't matter anyways when I declare War against the World next turn! :eek: J/K. Those kind of things happen to just about everybody at our level. And even sometimes to SirPleb. We'll get it straightened out, hopefully we can get knights from somewhere pretty soon.

Not meaning to harp on the issue, but I thought I would bring this up to the team. I'm not so sure I would have DoW on the greeks so quick. Especially without being sure to be able to take Ephesus.

It looks like the 2 city nation of greece kind of hindered us a little. The horses we had down there didn't stand much of a chance so I had to rush a couple of legionary. Rearranged some troop positions on the soon to be Northern front. Not sure whether or not I will declare on the French in my round. Depends on what total troop mass ends up being. I might just let Alamo do that.

I just played 4 turns out of my 10, and it looks like, although they have plenty of barbs, there is also some growth potential overseas to the east. I made peace with them, and maybe we should just let them be for a while. There is a buttload of settlers running through our territory from all nations. Was thinking maybe just to let them settle in their spots. Cut off their roads and pick them up as easy targets when the time is right. What do you guys think?

Also, do you think maybe I should rush 4-5 libraries in our lesser corrupted inner ring? To maybe pick things up a little during the early MA. I won't finish untill tomorrow about this time, so I can wait on your opinions. I think I am gonna bring the line chart downwards just a tad. Sorry :(

Just thought I would ask, since I can't finish it tonight anyways. I will finish, and post it about this time tomorrow.

I toyed with the idea of attacking the American and/or Babylonian settler groups-- they present zero threat to us-- but I agree that it would be easier to let them settle, then take them out eventually. Of course, the AI always ignores the best sites to found cities, but oh well, what can you do? Anyway, I look forward to everyone else's chastisements when they look at the save...

There is a buttload of settlers running through our territory from all nations. Was thinking maybe just to let them settle in their spots. Cut off their roads and pick them up as easy targets when the time is right. What do you guys think?
Don't let them through, kick them out! :ar15: , should they declare war on us, then it's great regarding war weariness.
But we should settle the free land ourselves asap. This will be great for our score. :)
Also we should explore and settle on the eastern island.
Our WM will be worth a lot if we explore this land! (Btw. I sold our WM for 1-2 g to each AI every turn, bringing in 4-8 gpt)

Also, do you think maybe I should rush 4-5 libraries in our lesser corrupted inner ring?
A few libraries would be fine, but we'll need a lot of cash for our horse->knight upgrade (80 g each :eek: )

War : Let's get rid of the French now, watch out for flips they are ahead of us culturewise, maybe we should just raze their cities and bring in our own settlers, our rep stinks anyway. :lol:

We should build a few more legionaries up north, and let the horsemen guard our coastal cities. :cool:

You should collect the initial letters of all the named barbarians you find. If you find enough of them you may be able to work out an anagram. A couple of the named barbarians have a letter in the middle that is capitalized, in these cases it is this letter that should be collected :)

If you find the answer, don't make it public... even in this thread. Just PM me. :)

I don't wanna build libs at the inner ring, we need all units we can get to clear the continent. I agree with zamint3 on the settler problem. Kick them out. The point with france, we need too much time to bring up our settlers to the france raized citys. If we are fast enough, culture is no problem.

I have known it bevor, Alamo and Handy900 are Barbariens. :lol:

Alamo the 1.2.2 barb - a reg impi - not too shabby. What's bad is that I couldn't win that GOMT! :cry:

Rotten luck on that Greek attack. I swear there is a deliberate peak and valley in that RNG to throw curves like this.

Kick out trespassers and take slaves when they refuse! :whipped:

IMHO we should concentrate on taking the motherland first, then worry about Easter Island.

I agree with you about not bothering with the island for now-- it's too much effort to divert a large piece of our military to stake it out (although it's probably where all the barbarians are).
Also, congratulations on your 1000th post.

Oh yeah, my 1000th post. [dance]

... and here's your salute! :salute:

I think I forgot to mention, that I did have a galley with a warrior/settler heading towards as alamo labeled "Easter" island :) . We are at peace with greece now, but those alamo and the other barbs might pick on him :lol:. Ok, I bully the settlers, I think we can afford a lib or 2, check out the island, and pimp slap Joan [pimp] . Got it.

Alright here goes nothing. Let's see what the player RNG got us this time. We already had the preturn discussion, with Taliesin taking his stripes like a man. I won't be taking my stripes as elegantly as him. I rush 1 legion in Knossos, because there are 5 hops in the vicinity, and only 3 horses (I think). Set Veii back to settlers for 3 reasons: in case we decide to raze cities, auto razes, and still alot of land to settle. Take a look and see we are #2 in land mass. Other coninent must be pretty big.

1) 130BC Just alot of troop movement.

2) 110BC Kill 4 hops, lose 1 legion, and 1 horse. More troop movement. Build a galley for suicide mission.

3) 90BC Send galley out and see a dark green border. Get Peace with Greeks and gain 8G, WM and 2 workers.

4) 70BC Tell Babylon to get out of our yard, and they spit at us and said "bring it on". So I do, kill the bowman and capture the settler. Tell Abe the same and he wusses out.
Contact Aztecs w/suicide galley, and trade construction/28G for contact with Iroquois. Establish an embassy for 68G, Just out of curiosity, sorry.
Trade Republic for contact with Japs/India/WM/15G
Sell Rep to India for WM and 411G
Sell Rep to Japs for WM/115G
DoW on France :ar15:

5) 50BC Auto raze Rouen with no losses, and auto raze Grenoble with no losses Looks like they only have Spearman? They have Iron hooked up, no Swords? This should be easy :banana: AND America DoW on us :eek: so now we are at war with America, France and Babylon.

6) 30BC YAY! :band: Our first GL! Not quite sure what to do with him, so I send him South of the action.

7) 10BC Capture Chartres, don't raze it cause England is sending loads of settlers, and don't want to give up the territory. Besides, can keep 1 Legion there to defeat a Spear if it flips.

8) 10ADFound Seleucia on EASTER Island :) and rush a spear for attack/bombard against the millions of barbs. And a French warrior kills a Legion near Paris :eek: Sorry, forgot to write down which turn I captured it.

IBT Seleucia riots......oops!

9) 30AD More troop movement, not much action.

10) 50AD See above, man these legions are slow.

AAR: Troop movement is extremely slow, every worker I capture I send to establish the Roman Highway. Or the Romans Road for you bible readers out there. Also, move some workers North from within our empire to help in this. Our road system definately leaves much to be desired. Hopefull this is fixed soon. Still alot of unimproved tiles being worked. I wanted so bad to buy Engineering from Germany, and Feudalism, but they are very expensive. Thought I would leave that up to the class. Umm, that is all I can think of right now. Questions, comments or concerns?
EDIT:I don't know why I forgot :confused: We have a FP to build, do we want to use the GL for this?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/General_Mauer.JPG

HALF-TIME SPEECH
I would just like to add that our score is looking quite nice at this point in the game :goodjob: Hopefully we can keep it this way. I know fast domination is the goal. But don't do anything crazy. If you have to wait an extra turn to get an army group gathered on a city, then wait. No gambles like "I just wanted to see how many were in the city", or "I thought I could take it with 1 Legion and a horse with 2HP" :rolleyes: . Make sure the odds are in your favor before attacking. Open that odds calculator if you have too. I know you all know this, but remember the terrain: hills, rivers, where to move units too. Is it as defensively sound on that plain as it is the mountain top.

Great job Mauer, especially with the Great Leader, even though that's just luck, but hey whatever.

Good cash we got from selling the Republic! Too bad those cities got auto razed.

Good work!
Is the plan to take out America and Babylon right now? Do we have enough of a military to accomplish that? I suppose we have to, otherwise safely settling all that land will be rather tricky... (and remember, always practise safe settling...)
Go for the FP in Paris, if you want my opinion on that score.

Ahhh, it looks great. Good job Mauer.
I would also say build FP with the GL.
The rest of the continent shouldn't be a problem.

I guess a save would be nice too huh :rolleyes:

Looks good Mauer! :goodjob:
Getting contact with the other continent was great. :)

I propose we sell our contacts. We should be able to get all known techs and all the gold in the world. Then we research Chivalry as fast as possible and in 6-8 turns we'll have an army of knights. :D
This means no more legionaries, all cities with barracks should produce horsemen and the rest settlers, and a few galleys.

The English are starting to annoy me, and they don't have iron, let's get them out of our part of the continent. :hammer:

We do have a problem with Seleucia, if we can't hold back the barbs, we'll start loosing a lot of gold over there, we might have to abandon the city, and come back later when we are better prepared. :confused:


Originally Posted by Mauer
We have a FP to build, do we want to use the GL for this?
We sure do! :D


Btw : I do like the HALF-TIME SPEECH :thumbsup:

I propose we sell our contacts. We should be able to get all known techs and all the gold in the world. Then we research Chivalry as fast as possible and in 6-8 turns we'll have an army of knights. :D
This means no more legionaries, all cities with barracks should produce horsemen and the rest settlers, and a few galleys.
This sounds like a great idea. Man I wish I had done that.
EDIT:Actually, maybe a better idea would be to just sell the map?Contacts would get us in the doghouse overseas, and they would trade the map between themselves anyways. Everyone was willing to pay a good price for maps too!
The English are starting to annoy me, and they don't have iron, let's get them out of our part of the continent. :hammer:
Several times I almost said to heck with it and just stomped their 2 southern cities, and captured their settlers.

We do have a problem with Seleucia, if we can't hold back the barbs, we'll start loosing a lot of gold over there, we might have to abandon the city, and come back later when we are better prepared. :confused:
I think we will be alright. From the looks of it, the barbs were taking a beating while attempting to attack a hoplite. In one turn I saw 2 warriors, and 2 horsemen go down to a hop. I think with the warrior/archer we will be OK. Maybe put a legion on that galley swimming nearby and post him over there. Just an idea.

Good work!
Is the plan to take out America and Babylon right now? Do we have enough of a military to accomplish that?
If we take zamints suggestion, which I think is a very good one, then yes and yes and england.

@Deltef= I think this post is coming dangerously close to putting me in arms reach of your enviable "yes man" award. :lol:

I'll play tonight. FP in Paris sounds like a good idea. If y'all don't mind I will starve Paris down to size 1 first. I would hate to have the city flip after rushing the FP.

Easter Island may be problematic if those barbs come for us. I'll try to get a legion over there.

I'll probably tolerate English incursions until we see how much America wants to fight.

Well, America is the only one we are at war with that has Iron. Ok, France does too, but only for a couple more turns. Make deals and get Feud, Eng, Chiv; upgrade horses, building more of them before chiv, and then see where we stand. Does that sound alright? Also, England does not have Iron :thumbsup:

--SAVE-- (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_AD0290_01.SAV)

50AD Prelim

71 units (6 settler) and 36 cities - wow!
Republic w/about +100gpt before Sci/Lux
War with France, America and Babylon
4 lux available and hooked up - 2 more on the continent
Barbs are gathering on Easter Island

Trading maps will lead to contact before we clear the continent, so I'll sell contacts if there's a tech involved.

Trade Hiawatha Monarchy+Wmap+20g=English contact+Wmap, then trade Wmap to others on that continent.
Trade Cathy Feudalism=Aztec Contact+Wmap
Trade Bismark Mono+Eng=all 4 contacts+Wmap+170g
Research Chivalry - due in 6 turns.
Switch galleys on W coast to barracks.
Switched all but 1 legion to horsemen - upgrade should be 80g. We will have gold for about 12.

MGL will create FP Paris in a few turns. Looks like a good radius of 5 there, if I can settle in the right spots.

IBT: Liz kicks us out

70AD(1) - Capture Orleans w/o loss.

IBT: Warrior takes 3 barb horses w/o a scratch! American archer appears. Joan wants peace, but not willing to give up cities. Liz and Mhatma start Sun Tzu's.

90AD(2) - I finally realize that SunTzu's is available and very valuable to us. Trajan rushes Sun Tzu in Rome. Spot a french pike! Move to pillage iron. Monty is now annoyed - our reputation is soiled. 3 civs with Theology, but want too much gold.

IBT: Barb galley nearly takes down our elite!

110AD(3) - Sun Tzu complete - reset build to horses, sell barracks. Maintenance down to 6gpt. Iron pillaged. Move 7 units into Paris to quell the resistance (still 4/5!)

IBT: Nada

130AD(4) - Elite legion wins glorious victory against French archer - Hadrain emerges! :smug: He will go to FP now (when Paris finally quells)! Sci/Lux to 80/0 for Chiv in 2.

IBT: Elite warrior looses flawlessly against barb horse :( I guess we deserved that after the MGL.

150AD(5) - Sci/Lux to 70/0. Paris finally starving.

IBT: Let bowman get 2 slaves - doh!

170AD(6) - Sci/Lux to 50/0 for big upgrade. 12 knights for 960g - 5 horses to go. Legion almost to Easter Island - lone archer vs 2 horses.

IBT: Lost 24g to barbs.

190AD(7) - Paris quelled, FP rushed. Move extra legions towards Marselles. Legion arrives in Easter Island. Loose reg legion vs archer. Bump sci to 60. Make peace w/Babylon,America for Wmap+19,33g. We need to clean Liz's clock.

IBT: 4 core cities riot - forgot about the peace effect :cringe:

210AD(8) - FP complete. Lost mauer taking Marseilles :( Send 2 knights to Easter Island for final Greek offensive.

IBT: Liz wants Chivalry - not for sale! Marseilles pacified.

270AD(9) - Make DoW on Liz - Loose reg legion and 2 knights vs horses and spears. Take Oxford. Brighton razed. 2 slaves captured.

IBT: No response from Liz, yet.

290AD(10) - Loose 2 legions vs spears. Take Liverpool. Take Lyons. Sci to 50 for Invention in 2.

To-Do List:

Lyons needs to move to make room for 2 FP core cities. Settlers are waiting in Paris.

A German settler wants the old Brighton spot - our settler is almost there, but put her on the coast.

The extra troops on Easter Island are for the Greek cleanup - once they and the troops in Liverpool heal.

Marseilles is next to the Babylon capital, so I'm starving it. Keep that garrison there.

Once the Greeks are gone almost all troops can be sent north.

I would send the knights to take out Joan then concentrate on Liz.

110AD(3) - Sun Tzu complete - reset build to horses, sell barracks. Maintenance down to 6gpt. Iron pillaged. Move 7 units into Paris to quell the resistance (still 4/5!)
:wow: Wow! I have never even thought of that. Outstanding :goodjob: will check out the save tomorrow, I need to go to bed.
EDIT:I just had an idea :hmm: What would you guys think of having 2-4 coastal cities start pumping galleys to be upgraded. Trying not to be overconfident here :rolleyes: but the Northern front looks unstoppable as long as we keep on pumping knights out of every barracks we can find. That way as soon as we are able we can upgrade our navy and send our army groups to the to "our other continent". It's just an idea, and there are probably a bunch of holes in it, but I just had a brain fart and thought I would mention it before I went to bed, now shoot holes in it or applaud me :p . Breath mauer, breath. Sorry was just overexcited about Gen Alamo's military triumphs.

Wow! Look at the graph-- our rate of score increase is still increasing with each turn! Soon all the continent shall be ours (hmwhahahaha)... :king:

Oh, that's what those west coast galleys were for - I though it was suicide galley holdovers. Yeah, a boat pre-build wouldn't be bad. We'll probably get Cav first, since the tech rate will slow down once we capture the GrLib - and take all the towns on the way. We don't need that big of an armada, though, just 4-6 boats ought to do it. The jump to Aztec territory is not that far.

BTW - there are many temples building, but most have no chance of completing soon. The towns around Paris will start to be productive once the loyal Roman citizens become fruitful and multiply. Change the builds as needed.

Also, the third settler in Paris could come back south to the R=5 spot close to Dover (from Paris 2-2-2-3 on the keypad). Mauer did a great job on the settler builds - I just had to plant them. The next player will have to start a few more.

@Deltef= I think this post is coming dangerously close to putting me in arms reach of your enviable "yes man" award. :lol:



No,No,No, toooooo much words behind the Quote. :nono:

@Alamo: :goodjob: Great work, great work. Spezially as an barbarien. :D

I agree to Mauers idea. 10 galleys are enough to pump our units over the sea.

I got it. My wife say go and kill the AI's. So i have to do what she say.

Nice work there Alamo. :goodjob:
Counting and numbering our cities. :thumbsup:

I had a quick look at the save and got this thought : Let's conquer the world with knights.
It looks like there is a passage to the Iroqouis on the other side of the island, or we could try the galley hopping to the Aztecs demonstrated in a recent GOTM. :cool: :crazyeye:
This would mean cutting off research completely and lots of galleys. I haven't had time to examine the save so as Mauer says : please shoot holes in this plan. :lol:


Edit : Btw. did you meet any barbs with funny names?

We're just 5 techs from MilTrad, and only 4 in 2 turns. I think we can get there with modest sci spending. What else do spend gold on? Also, we need Astronomy for Caravels. We can trade for Theology at least.

No, no funky barb names. I think it's just those Impis that have the names. I was trying to get those knights promoted vs barbs, but no luck.

It's only 7 tiles from Virconium to Aztec's Teayo. We definitely don't need more than 10 caravels, especially if we have cav. Once the initial beachhead is established it will be a trickle of troops crossing. Did you want to cross somewhere else?

I haven't even opened the sav yet, so I will look at it and give my 2cents. But I would like to add, if we could sack the world before MT that would be outstanding :banana:
EDIT:What would be even more outstanding if we could get another leader to build an army, then another one to rush Leo's!
Well, not more outstanding, but outstanding none the less.

1 Alamo played
2 Detlef up
3 Sark on deck
4 zamint3
5 Taliesin
6 Mauer

I had a quick look at the save and got this thought : Let's conquer the world with knights.

so as Mauer says : please shoot holes in this plan. :lol:


Edit : Btw. did you meet any barbs with funny names?
OK, readyyy.....aimmmm..... :sniper:J/K not shooting holes just comments on the save.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/tech_race.JPG
above So does that mean that the other civs skipped chiv and went to education or invention? I'm not sure. Either way we will need a shipping route.

Shipping lane #1) to Aztecs Teayo- looks pretty far, and would be a pretty big gamble IMHO.

#2) to Iroquois Oil Springs- It looks safe, but we don't know how far north Easter Island goes. Could be quite a lengthy sail.

#3) to the north via the rebellious Roman province of Germany- also looks quite lengthy, but could work out about the same time we take "our" continent. Only drawback would be waiting to get all those stupid galleys up there.

***WARINING***WARNING***HISPALIS TO RIOT NEXT TURN***
Also Detlef, if you haven't already started playing, a couple of suggestions on your turns. We need more settlers! Let's see.....where is there land. There is unoccupied land still North of us, to the East of us, on Easter Island. Which BTW also has gems and silks that we will very soon be desperately needing. We must conquer the greeks, probably Ephesus last that way they don't resist the task of harbor building. Get some barb hunters over there, and get those lux's roaded! There is still unsettled land in the Indian Jungles, but that isn't something to worry about. And by all means, continue the good fight up north!

Why do we still have warriors? We need to upgrade them, or disband them.
Side note: If you guys don't have Dianthus's CRPSuite you need to get it. I don't know how I ever got along w/o it. Also, you should have a combat calculator. I have CivLackey's. It is not updated to C3C yet, but that's ok cause we're not playing C3C.
Side note#2: Yes! I am 2/3's the way to getting an avatar!

@Alamo: :goodjob:
I agree to Mauers idea.
I got it. My wife say go and kill the AI's. So i have to do what she say.
Yes man! Yes man! you are the king of it :lol:
Sorry about the posting cascade

The AI usually goes for the wonder techs, and chivalry is a wonderless dead-end. It will be good for a trade, once we feel secure enough to trade it (read control all the iron sources).

Sorry about the riot - city mm is the downside to ICS.

Sorry about the riot - city mm is the downside to ICS.
No problem, it was just a note to get Detlef's attention.

What else do spend gold on? Also, we need Astronomy for Caravels. We can trade for Theology at least.

I would spend the money rushing knights and galleys, I'll see if I can find that post on galley-"hopping"

Originally Posted by Mauer
So does that mean that the other civs skipped chiv and went to education or invention?
This should mean that a lot of AI allready got chivalry. :eek:

Nothing beats domination, as mb seems to suggest. Here are the Jason dates for GOMT16, which are the expected victory dates for each condition.

_920AD Domination
_950AD Diplomatic
1150AD Conquest
1300AD Space Race
1525AD Cultural 100k
1760AD Cultural 20k
This is quoted from page 1 of this thread. Just wondering where you got this from alamo?

I'll see if I can find that post on galley-"hopping"

I found it, it was nicely demonstrated by Megalou in GOTM32, you can find it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1961763&postcount=28). :)

Originally Posted by Mauer
Also Detlef, if you haven't already started playing, a couple of suggestions on your turns. We need more settlers! Let's see.....where is there land. There is unoccupied land still North of us, to the East of us, on Easter Island.
I agree, to keep up our score we should expand. :D

Which BTW also has gems and silks that we will very soon be desperately needing.
We have silks, and we should have gems shortly up north. :cool:

OK, my turns:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/mauer_SG003_AD0400_01.SAV

300AD: made a deal with russia map+4g for map
found Arretium and start with temple
we have some problems with unhappiness, 8 or more citys stand
bevor rioting. If i use spezialists, we loose too much productivity, so
i set lux to 10%

310: Germany wants w-map for w-map ( :nono: no chance)
we closed invention, our next is gunpowder
England (Coventry) build the Great Lighthouse
changed Dover, Neapolis, Chartres and Nikopolis to Pike (I need the
knights against England and France, not for MP)
Hmmm, no MP in core citys with pop higher than 4, no wonder
of unhappiness. I build some pikes to stop this.

320: found Gordion and build a pike
start war against greece
changed Saleuce to harbor (so we can use lux and resources there)

330: Aztecs want the right for walk through our lovely country but they
didn't want to pay for it. :nono: No chance.
captured Herakleia
captured Warwick

340: captured Rheims
India traded Theo+w-map for chiv and engeneering

350: captured Besancon (Hmm, it was not the last french city ????)
captured Nottingham and raized it ( The near to London with high
culture isn't good)
I can't find the last french city :confused: . So i signed a peace
treaty for education+w-map. It's a little bit mystic, no french city.
But we are now the leader in techs.

360: find a Barbarian named Haphazard

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mauer_SG003_400AD_pic1.JPG

370: some Babylonian movements near Marseilles (they know that theire
time is come)

380: captured London with Oracle and Hanging Gardens

390: captured Canterburry

400: War against russia, they tried to walk throug our glorious nations without
to ask. :evil: No way. This means they lost 1 spear, 1 archer and a
settler
found Cyrene
another Barbarian, named Bede

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mauer_SG003_400AD_pic2.JPG

England now has Gunpowder, we have to hurry

Uuups, i missed to stop playing, Sorry.

England is down to 4 citys, we should go on with Babylon and Russia. Watch out for unhappiness, it's a big problem and we loose too much productivity on that. We need each shield and gpt for our wars. There are too many Barbs on the Eastern iland, so i couldn't done much there. I start to build some settlers, to fill up the formally english lands. No chance to trade much, the AI's didn't love us. :shakehead didn't know why :D hahahaheheha... Germany send out some settlers, be aware of it.
We have 4 forces, near Rheims, Marseilles, London and Canterburry and many knights walking to the Northern borders.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mauer_SG003_400AD_pic3.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mauer_SG003_400AD_pic4.JPG

Beautiful score there, Detlef! I'll have a look at the save soon and comment in more detail, but it looks good from here. I guess we're reaching the point that war-weariness begins to affect us, so we'd better finish off the continent pronto.

Score is going up. :goodjob:

....but... :eek: .... I think Detlef, you may get the BOTM award! :lol:

Two things :
1) Why build pikes when legionaries cost the same and have +2 attack! :eek:
2) Our military can't do MP service under a Republic government! :mischief:

I don't know if BOTM (Blunder Of The Month) is an officiel award yet! :lol: :lol:


Btw : You should never build spears, pikes etc unless you are in big trouble. :cool:

@mauer: I got those vc dates from the GOTM score calculator page: here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/calculator/index.php)

Looking good on the conquest. Legions same as pikes - good point. No MP - better point. Now if we had monarchy....

It looks like Joan has a refuge on Easter Island, as that Bede screenie shows.

London is in riot, eh? The city governor is actually good for preventing riots as resistors are quelled.

What good will galley-hopping be? You can't leave them away from shore w/o chance of sinking until Nav, IIRC.

....but... :eek: .... I think Detlef, you may get the BOTM award! :lol:

Two things :
1) Why build pikes when legionaries cost the same and have +2 attack! :eek:
2) Our military can't do MP service under a Republic government! :mischief:

I don't know if BOTM (Blunder Of The Month) is an officiel award yet! :lol: :lol:
It looks as if Detlef is going to be the most decorated soldier in the Roman army :salute: :rotfl: Just remember, it's all in fun.......unless you do it to me :nono:

London is in riot, eh? The city governor is actually good for preventing riots as resistors are quelled. What good will galley-hopping be? You can't leave them away from shore w/o chance of sinking until Nav, IIRC.
Well the galley hopping you take a chance of losing the ship but not the units. Is a good thing if you have the production to spare on reinforcement ships. And about the rioting. I'm telling you guys the CRPSuite will tell you everytime, beforehand, which cities will riot. If you just take the 10-15 seconds to be the city governor yourself.

Also, I know the AI would have gotten chiv eventually, but remember we aren't going for the long game. I think it would be a good idea not to trade anymore techs.......especially on the lower bracket towards MA, or any that give a att/def bonus. I don't plan on getting Magnetism, RR, or medicine before we finish this game, cause that will mean an early win. If we can sell em crap, then by all means. Just my opinion, which may not be the right thing anyways. Does this sound right?
Edit: Also just want to remind everybody, how important settlers/tile count is. We need those settlers to occupy every square inch of the map, while being able to control our war efforts.

Well the galley hopping you take a chance of losing the ship but not the units. Exactly, you will lose a lot of galleys! ;) ..... but, no worries, in a few turns we'll have The Great Lighthouse and there will be several places where we can cross the ocean safely. :D


Edit: Also just want to remind everybody, how important settlers/tile count is. We need those settlers to occupy every square inch of the map, while being able to control our war efforts.Yes, yes, yes. :cool:

Score is going up. :goodjob:

....but... :eek: .... I think Detlef, you may get the BOTM award! :lol:

Two things :
1) Why build pikes when legionaries cost the same and have +2 attack! :eek:
2) Our military can't do MP service under a Republic government! :mischief:

I don't know if BOTM (Blunder Of The Month) is an officiel award yet! :lol: :lol:


Btw : You should never build spears, pikes etc unless you are in big trouble. :cool:

Point taken, thats why i can't win a deity game. I forget to thought about such major things. :sad:
But look, my second award at my first SGOTM. Who can count this for himself? :lol:

@London: If you capture a enemy capitol with 8 citicen, you have no chance to save this town from rioting. You have to wait until the resistance is killed.

Got it, will play soon.

I'm leaving on an trip to Europe on the 4th and I coming back the 15th. So best of luck to you all.

Here's a link to the utilities Dianthus Tools (http://www.cfc-dianthus.com/CRpSuite/)

Who has the Great Lighthouse? Benefits are +1 ship movement and galleys can travel safely at sea. Ocean tiles are still hazardous, right?

410 AD Canterbury is overthrown...
Knight defeats Longbowman
Musketman on Canterbury now (Joy)
Hastings taken
See a barbarian named Bede


420 AD Take Nineveh
See Barbarian named Offa
See Barbarian named Akots
Canterbury's Musketmen are too tough, they kill 2 Knights and fight off 2 others
Capture Babylon
Destroy Akkad


430 AD Nothing

440 AD Great Leader from a 1 HP Knight!
Fail to take Ephesus

450 AD Nothing

460 AD Tyrus founded
Greeks take Athens since it was undefended, they landed an Archer next to it


470 AD Ashur taken, 1 Babylonian city remains

480 AD The French estabilish an Embassy with us...
Verona founded
Some people are building Leonardos (Forgot to write them down)


490 AD Take Coventry, we also now have control of the Great Lighthouse!
Take Sverlodsk, after killing a ton of units, 7 Russian workers

500 AD Take back Athens >.<


Situation: The advance against England was stalled because of the Musketmen. I therefore sent reinforcements North, and a group of 6 Knights should take the last Babylonian city. There are enough Knights near England that put together would be a good threat but the Musketmen are lethal. I built two Galleys to start a fleet, Germany and America are not at war with us but they are furious. There are a good number of settlers heading north, so they should be able to settle everything in time. Finally, almost all the units are on auto move so select them if u want to do something with them different!

Cheers :king:

Greeks take Athens since it was undefended, they landed an Archer next to it


That caused some WW for sure. That's why I usually keep at least 1 defender in every city in my personal games.

Leonardo's! We might want to use that GL for that. I don't think we have gunpowder yet. Wonder who does, and what they'll give for it. Like maybe 20 turns of peace for it :evil: . I am going to check the save out and post what I find. So much for the take the world with knights :( . Oh well, it was a wonderful thought and would have been really nice :) .
@alamo-Yes with the great lighthouse, they can still sink in ocean squares. But we can now safely cross the straight.
EDIT: Ok, I went back and saw that we already had gunpowder. I must have overlooked that detail.

I uploaded the save!

Score is still OK. :thumbsup:

@Dark :
Did you use the slider?
Did you trade maps?
Did you attack across rivers?
Did you build pikes and why are they still in our core cities?
Did you micromanage our cities, I see unnecessary entertainers, taxmen and scientist? :eek:

I does take a lot of effort to play 10 turns at this point. ;)

I don't mean to sound to harsh, but we should try and play together and read and comment each others posts.

....sorry Mauer.....got a bit carried away there! :blush:

Anyway it's my turn, and I need some input before I play. :)

1) What do we do about research?
2) What should we use our leader for? (btw : I think he should have been used right away, as we have a lot of elite troops who could have created another in the meantime! :eek: )
3) What should be the priority for our workers?
4) Warfare, how do we proceed?

I won't play tonight, and I will through in my own thoughts before I do! :cool:

So much for the take the world with knights :(
I still think it can be done. :lol:

I@Sark :
Did you use the slider?
Did you trade maps?
Did you attack across rivers?
Did you build pikes and why are they still in our core cities?
Did you micromanage our cities, I see unnecessary entertainers, taxmen and scientist?

I does take a lot of effort to play 10 turns at this point.

I don't mean to sound to harsh, but we should try and play together and read and comment each others posts.

....sorry Mauer.....got a bit carried away there!

Anyway it's my turn, and I need some input before I play.

1) What do we do about research?
2) What should we use our leader for? (btw : I think he should have been used right away, as we have a lot of elite troops who could have created another in the meantime! :eek: )
3) What should be the priority for our workers?
4) Warfare, how do we proceed?

I won't play tonight, and I will through in my own thoughts before I do! :cool:
You beat me to the punch again zamint. Was reviewing the save, and had a whole bunch of notes :rolleyes: . And don't be afraid to get carried away. Your not new here, but most of our team is, including me. Questions and comments, however crass they may be, are needed and welcomed. If nothing else to start getting better communication. Alright, I don't feel like scrolling the screen to look back at your questions :mischief: , but maybe my questions/answers will fall in line with them.

1) Rush Leo's. IMHO. That is my favorite by all means. Ask me why and I'll post it.

2)Libraries in the core. I think we missed them at a key moment. Even a couple would have helped our research. And where did we get education from? I hope we didn't research it.

3)This is a long one. Our unit management looks horrible at the moment :sad: . First I would like to say that spears and pikes are worthless to me. We are attacking. Not defending. There have been alot of shields wasted on defensive units, when we do have the ability to create an overwhelming attack force. We currently have 4 spears and 19 pikes :eek: . How many more knights would that have been?

I told you #3 was a long one :p . Units in the inner cities. Who is going to ROP rape us right now. Or who is gonna infiltrate in some devious manner as to put themselves in a postion to attack our inner cities? If we are going to have pikes, then put them on quelling duty. Which leads me to .....

4)Why do we have legionaries, and knights quelling resistors :confused: . Muskets are tough, but we have the equivelant of an entire army pulling "MP" duty.

5)Resisting cities, or demographically challenged cities. STARVE THEM OUT!!! Just for future reference I have added this screenshot to show what a captured city should look like untill pop 1. Minus the knight of course. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/resistors.JPG
Sorry, not meaning to offend anybody. I just needed to get that off of my chest. Other than that. Good job with the score! :cool:

1) What do we do about research? Military Tradition
2) What should we use our leader for? I already answered Leo's, which is still my favorite choice. However we are militarisic. Building an army and using it successfully would allow Heroic Epic.
3) What should be the priority for our workers? A road here, a road there, and a road to connect them. Mines, and irrigation in our core as the terrain allows. We need to start working on how keep all those people happy, and to get aquaducts. Pop=points :smoke: , and equals dom percentage.
4) Warfare, how do we proceed? Considering we have the GL, and can now safely traverse the straight between Aztecs and ourselves, maybe act like pinky and the brain. Try and take over the world :lol: . Seriously, we need to finish off this continent. Boats need to be ready at the very moment they are needed, and where they are needed. And that crazy land mass right down the middle, I don't think we'll need that for 66% but it couldn't hurt.

I uploaded the save!
@Dark :
Did you use the slider?
Did you trade maps?
Did you attack across rivers?
Did you build pikes and why are they still in our core cities?
Did you micromanage our cities, I see unnecessary entertainers, taxmen and scientist? :eek:


I was in a bit of a rush to play, sorry guys.

1. I decided 5.5 was ok because we were researching well and getting a good amount of money.
2. No, I never do in my game so that slipped my mind.
3. Sometimes, usually not.
4. I should of switched all of them over I guess, many are switched to the Legion.
5. No not really, when I am doing extremely well in research and money I tend not to.

This game is against my play style, I'd sign peace right now and just sit around and build, and I don't have a lot of expereince managing wars like I said once before.

Hey, at least I took SOME cities! :lol:

EDIT, @Mauer, I got paranoid after Canterbury flipped I guess :blush:

@Mauer, I got paranoid after Canterbury flipped I guess :blush:
paranoid huh, you big ole chicken, now you ruined the whole game :crazyeye:

@Sark: nice turns.

@team: i can't understand why some members are annoyed about others turns. Thats the style how them play. I found no post in which we decided, not to put a defence unit in a city (we lost Athen to an AI). You can not expect that each of us are perfect sid players. If something going wrong, don't ask who has done this, tell why you mean we should do it in an other way. This game should be fun and we wanna learn somehting out of it.

@Sark: nice turns.

@team: i can't understand why some members are annoyed about others turns. Thats the style how them play. I found no post in which we decided, not to put a defence unit in a city (we lost Athen to an AI). You can not expect that each of us are perfect sid players. If something going wrong, don't ask who has done this, tell why you mean we should do it in an other way. This game should be fun and we wanna learn somehting out of it.
You are absolutely right, and I would like to apologize if my post seemed a little harsh. But I would also like to put up some sort of defense. I don't expect any of us to be perfect sid players, and I have said repeatedly to watch out for my mess ups and let me know about them.

As far as Athens goes, I didn't even comment about that. The point I was trying to make about units in the cities was the cities they are in are by no means optimal. I don't expect sid results, and I won't have sid results. But there are some minor simple things that were missed, and I think I have the right as a team member to comment on them. The defensive units we do have are placed in cities away from the conflict. All I am asking that we take an extra minute or two to look at troop postitions, and try and reason why we have them where we do.

I don't think anything I said is what you should expect from a sid player. I think all the things I said you should expect from a player that just was just a little more careful and took their time. Sark even admitted that he was in a rush to play, and on instant messenger he told me he didn't think I was too harsh with him.
I does take a lot of effort to play 10 turns at this point.
This is basically what I mean. We have a large empire, with a lot of cities. Just take your time is all. So please don't be upset with me Detlef. Besides, when I use my credit to go to Europe I might need your help to find the brothels :p .

Thats exactly the way it should work, each person should take part with his comments. But not only by saying "Ohh, why have you done this". Each of us should explain why he thought this is the wrong way and what we can do to make it better. And then, all of us have to decide on the choosen way. It's a team game, nothing else. So at this team, it looks like we have different playing philosphys and we have to put these together. I don't speak to one person, it's a ground aspect to all of us. Let us collect some basic points to clear such "failures".

Thats exactly the way it should work, each person should take part with his comments.
I beilieve that's what I did.
But not only by saying "Ohh, why have you done this". Each of us should explain why he thought this is the wrong way and what we can do to make it better.
And again here, I believe that's what I did.
And then, all of us have to decide on the choosen way. It's a team game, nothing else. So at this team, it looks like we have different playing philosphys and we have to put these together.
Well, I wasn't really speaking to playing philosophies. Unit management isn't really a philosophy, but rather a necessity in any gameplay, and victory condition. Also culture flips aren't 100% preventable, but there are measures you can take to keep the likelihood down. Again, this is not a philosophy, but a necessity whether con/dom, space, histo, or culture is the goal. These are the 2 main points I was trying to get across.

Again, you are right. But as i sayed it bevor, i didn't speak to only one person, it's a thing to all of us.
About philosophies, you can also win with one defender at each city or with one defender at each 'outer' city (coast or border citys) or perhaps without a defender at any city (the risk seams higher to loose one). I hope you understand what i mean, you think so, i think the other way and the next player think it's own way.
Thats are so little things we have to talk about.

My inputs:

Workers should improve core cities first, then build roads, then irrigate starved towns, then chop forest
Research for cav and caravels first.
MGL for Leos and upgrade defenders to muskets (see below).
Next MGL for Army to build HE.
Eliminate Greeks and French to avoid any more suprises.
Send the extra defenders to Aztec territory to soak up the resistance before landing the main cav forces.

Originally Posted by Detlef Richter
@team: i can't understand why some members are annoyed about others turns.
I do apologize for being too harsh. :sad:

That said, I must say I agree with much of what Mauer writes. ;)

These SG-games are learning experiences, we see new ways of doing things and we get to discuss why we do things.
But it is also a team effort, so if the team wan't me to research Military Tradition I should not research Printing Press, and if the the team don't wan't pikes i should not build more pikes, and so on.
It's important that everyone contributes with their opinion, so the one in the hot seat know where to go on the big issues. :)
Don't be afraid to ask before you play, on my former team we sometimes played a few turns and then stopped to ask the team if something popped up. :crazyeye:


....sorry Detlef, I have to post this quote: :lol:
We should build a few more legionaries up north, and let the horsemen guard our coastal cities. :cool:


....and team, we're way ahead of the other teams. :goodjob: :lol:

My inputs:

Workers should improve core cities first, then build roads, then irrigate starved towns, then chop forest
Research for cav and caravels first.
MGL for Leos and upgrade defenders to muskets (see below).
Next MGL for Army to build HE.
Eliminate Greeks and French to avoid any more suprises.
Send the extra defenders to Aztec territory to soak up the resistance before landing the main cav forces.
Sounds like a pretty layout there alamo. What about Germany and their gems. I think we should try and get those too. The reason I think we should take our continent first, is because smaller civs are not scared to sign a MA against you. Or to DoW outright for that matter. I'm afraid if we go to war too early (without controlling our continent), we might be facing a two front war, and might not be able to provide the necessary reinforcements across the pond. Just a small example is when we went to war with the 2 city nation of Greece, and it put us in a tough spot as far as deploying enough troops northward.

I don't mean make 1,000 knights and send them all north for England, Russia and co. I mean make 1,000 knights and send 200 of them north and 800 of them across the straight to the Aztecs. :eek: :lol:

My input:

Research : Straight to cav, and then stop completly. I don't think we need caravels!

Great Leader: I suggest an army or Bach's Cathedral, we can get Music Theory cheaply. I don't think we need Leo's as the only upgrade I think we should do is knight->cav, and that's only 20 g. But with the amount of elites we have we should get lots of GLs. :D

Worker action: Irrigating and roading should be top priorities. Irrigate the grass to improve growth which will improve score. We may need to do some pillaging, to starve AI cities or cut off their resources, so reroading will have to be done.

Warfare: Just put the hammer down on our own continent, :hammer: we don't have a rep, so we can make peace and attack again next turn.:evil:

I agree with Mauer : no defenders. Starve the conquered cities or just leave all troops outside and retake the city if it flips.

Build galleys for the overseas invasion.
It looks like Japan is the weakest on the other continent, should we go after them first, it might be enough, if we settle easter island as well. :)

Btw: I can't find our leader?? :crazyeye:

I mean make 1,000 knights and send 200 of them north and 800 of them across the straight to the Aztecs. :eek: :lol:
That'll bring our unit cost up, I'd better start disbanding those pikes! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My inputs:
Send the extra defenders to Aztec territory to soak up the resistance before landing the main cav forces.

An excellent idea. :D
Since we built them, we might as well find a use for them! I find so often my gigantic invasion forces are stalled or halted outright by annoying defensive strikes, so it would be good to pre-empt that by "soaking" the greater part of their offence up. Say, land 20 musketmen in two stacks near their capital and core, fortify them on a hill, and presto! Their forces will smash themselves in vain against the rock that is the Roman army.
:egypt:
S P Q R

Great job on the score, Sark. We're just about keeping pace with Smackster's derivative on the graph, so as long as we keep :viking: [dance] conquering, we should be able to beat them. Have a good time in Europe... and we'll try to win it for you... :goodjob:

I can't help feeling that we are going to run up against cavalry on the other continent. Just a thought. I suppose that once we invade the Aztecs, we could stir up some conflict to slow down the tech pace, but still we'd better get a move on.
I agree that we should rush Leo's. We're going to have a large number of kniights to upgrade. We should be pumping out as many as possible.
That's it for now, I guess. :)

So lets see. This seems to be the general consensus here:
More knights
More galleys
take our continent
upgrade pikes
research MT
create an army
build population
:worship: Mauer
and somehow balance the budget, while providing a socialistic health care program to everyone.
I can't help feeling that we are going to run up against cavalry on the other continent. Just a thought. I suppose that once we invade the Aztecs, we could stir up some conflict to slow down the tech pace, but still we'd better get a move on.
Sounds like a good idea. With our rep, it is gonna cost us though :( .
Please fill in what I left out above too.

Health care is only for the patricians, obviously. It would be a waste to give it to the plebs, given that they're all dying in military service at the age of eighteen anyhow. ;)

So lets see. This seems to be the general consensus here:
.
.
create an army

I think the count is in favour of Leo's, or...? :confused:
(allthough I'm against. :rolleyes: )

Taliesin=leos
Alamo=leos
sark=europe
zamint3=happy people ;)
Detlef=sleepy time
mauer=Well, I was thinking leos for upgrade cost, but I didn't take into account that we would try and end the game before IA. So we wouldn't need the extra cash if this is the case. I think Zamint is right. We need (ok, everybody sing it) Shining happy people holding hands :lol: :lol:

And I will say your welcome in advance, for sticking that lovely song in your head for the rest of the day.

Yeahh, wake up in the morning light.
Things looking great now.

Last but not least, my thoughts:

Knights and later cav sounds good.
I also think we should first conquer our continent. We can then use our proofed forces against the weekest of the rest.
If zamint3 is right (20g for upgrade knights), we should go and sing some songs (we need happy people).
On our workers, let 6 of them build our main roads to north. The rest can work for our milking.
But about our defenders, if everyone agree to zamint3 (no defenders), i say OK too (Ohh i'am feeling not good on this).

OK I played one turn before work, and I just thought I'd let you know how things are going. :D
500 AD Preflight
Make peace with England for Music Theory, a worker, 47 g and 8 gpt. Make peace wiyh Greece.
Hunt down our leader and hurry Bach’s in Gordion.
Micromanage a lot of cities. Sell our world map for a total of 130 g.
Move pikes towards the north or towards our coast.
Elite knight from Nineveh kills Russian spear and The Great Leader Germanicus arises. :)
Germanicus hurry Leo’s in Marseilles.
Science up to 70% : Chemistry in one turn.

IBT :
Make peace with Russia for Novgorod and all their gold.
Liz tells us to get lost, but we’re not amused, and we’re back to war with England.
Bach’s and Leo’s completed. :)
Chemistry completed and we start researching Metallurgy at 70%, 8 turns.

510 AD Turn 1 :
Elite knight kills Bowman outside York and Claudius arises. Man I hope AlanH is not reading this. :lol:

Wahooooo, :eek: each turn a great leader sounds really good. Who has payed the RPG god?



Make peace with Russia for Novgorod and all their gold.



Have we ever captured an russian city? If not, they have really fear of us. :aargh:



Man I hope AlanH is not reading this.



If yes, we have to bann him. :lol:

Oh man... this gives us some definite bragging rights in the next spoiler-- I'm looking forward to that discussion!
Perhaps the mighty RNG gods sensed indecision among us over what use to make of our leaders and made it easier by allowing us to do everything at once...
I can't think of a wonder we'd especially need with that leader-- Shakespeare, Magellan and Copernicus aren't particularly helpful right now-- so my vote is for making an army.

W-O-W! 2 Leaders back-to-back. I've heard the rumors, but never seen it with me own two eyes.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you rush the wonders in Rome? Was there some hurry to the hurry? I realize that would take more turns, and a lost leader opportunity. I just like to concentrate my wonders in some vain hope of a super culture city.

Something to consider, albeit briefly, is a palace jump. We probably have about as good a setup as possible with Rome, but we do have the largess to move the palace now.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you rush the wonders in Rome? Was there some hurry to the hurry? I realize that would take more turns, and a lost leader opportunity.
Exactly! :)