SGOTM3 Rome - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3.jpg

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Original GOTM16 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm16_rome.shtml)
The Draft Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)

This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.
1. Non-Oscillating War variant. You keep a list of opponents and the order in which you meet them.
2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.
4. You must declare war on the second Civ you met on the same turn that the first Civ was eliminated or 20 turns has elapsed (whichever happens sooner). This is to prevent sandbagging.
5. After each opponent is eliminated or 20 turns elapse you must declare war on the next civ in the list.
6. If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

Have fun, and good luck everyone!

Just a quick check to let you guys know I'm tracking, and really looking forward to this one.

Signing in...

Sword sharpened... check
Armour polished... check
Clean underpants... check

Well, I'm ready :)


Ted

Checking in :)

Ready to rumble!

Anyone like the idea of an early archer rush to knock out the first civ we meet. If we can get iron hooked up early we can take on 2 civs, if we haven't finished off Civ 1 yet, after the 20 turn sandbagging time elapses. Once we have legions rolling we should roll our continent and then fully settle our land mass. The wars after that will be limited to AI landings. If we can get our continent early and pump settlers our score, shield output and tech pace should be large enough to overcome any obstacles the AI may throw at us. Hoping to finish the world off by knights/ early cav period.

@'slinger: sounds like a plan to me...hammer 'em early and often...

Since the gold goes to the fastest date relative to Jason, are we going after domination/conquest? Nobody's up for stealing techs in communism in a space race? :p

Conquest/domination sounds good to me too. As soon as we have Iron then let the Legions loose on an unsuspecting world.

Anyone seen or heard from microbe?


Ted

I don't think Microbe and I are in any SGs together, so I wouldn't know if he's around or not.

On Barbslinger's early archer rush idea... a couple of questions:

1) Just how dangerous would an early archer rush be at Emperor?
2) Would it be worth breaking out the whip after we've got a few cities down?

I hope we've got an expansionist civ nearby. I've always been so tempted to just clip an AI's scout...

Edit: The starting position looks strong enough to me. A nice defensive hill, river, 5 BGs, game, wine... Worker west, and (seeing nothing) settle on the spot? Mine/road BG, then south to mine/road BG, and prepare to do a forest chop to dump shields into something worthwhile?

All right. What should the roster be? A tentative list:

TedJackson (play up to 3000BC) - retired
Barbslinger (10 onwards)
ForTheEmpire (newly joined)
microbe
gozpel
scout

I'd prefer someone with AWE experience to start this off. I know Ted must have experience, so I put him as the start. If you have different opinions please let me know.

I guess this will be a AW-like start, tight build? delaying contact?

Archer rush sounds fine to me. What should we research? Iron Working would be nice to have.

I don't think Microbe and I are in any SGs together, so I wouldn't know if he's around or not

Barbslinger and gozpel know I'm always around. :) SGOTM being in a separate forum did make me not able to catch this in the first minute.

On the archer rush, we don't get much choice since we will be at war with the first civ we meet. We need a settler farm, hopefully the capital, and then rax,workers and archers until we get IW. I threw the archers out there because we could elect to build cheap warriors for upgrade once we get iron. However, with the variant, we may want to forego the upgrade ploy and try and knock off the first civ we meet. Whe we meet another civ we mus wait 20 turns or until we destroy the first civ. Now! We can semi-sandbag, within the rules, by holding off on destroying civ#1 and not knocking off the last city until turn 20. Hopefully by that time we will have iron and can easily capture the last civ#1 city and declare on civ#2 on the same turn.
Again I put the archer builds out there because we will have to go to early war footing right away anyhow.

I guess this will be a AW-like start, tight build? delaying contact?Tight build and "builder's scouting"? (Close to home, looking for city sites...)

...and wherever you stick me in the order is fine. I think SGOTM1 on Akots team was my only AW experience... so I'm probably not the one you're looking for to start us.

...but I love a good slugfest, and I'm looking forward to this.

BTW, do we care anything about the Barbarian-Impi "puzzle" in this game, or have one of you guys figured it out from playing this as a GOTM?

Edit: Cross-posted with 'slinger, but he was talking about something else.

On Warrior Upgrades: It might be worth building a few warriors, but I like the archer rush idea. It'll probably work really well or backfire, but I like it.

Yes, IW will be nice to have. Remember we can do a no haggle trade before declaring so hopefully we'll get something nice before proceeding with the war.

...starting with Alphabet and Warrior Code, would we rather get Bronze or Pottery?

Though researching more than minimum will not help at first, eventually we're going to have to self-research... having something to trade with might be tough when we meet the 2nd or 3rd civ.

I normally go min on Writing and get it the first, which takes 50 turns. The benefit is that we can start right away, and should be able to trade it for Iron Working when we need it (probably the second war), and save money for upgrades.

On the other hand, we have to get Bronze Working first to research Iron Working. This means we have to probably research both techs ourselves and usually it's what AI will research too.

I'm actually inclined to Writing, and using archers to handle the initial wars, hoping to trade for Iron Working in 50 turns. But I want to hear comments from AW experts.

I normally go min on Writing and get it the first, which takes 50 turns.

I'm actually inclined to Writing, and using archers to handle the initial wars, hoping to trade for Iron Working in 50 turns. But I want to hear comments from AW experts.

THIS IS NOT CONQUESTS! Tech costs and min and max rate have not been altered. Min research to writing will not take 50 turns.

I'd like to play a normal research pottery in 16 or so and then go writing. We should be able to trade for WC and BW and then use writing to get IW. Like MB states the tech costs and minimums are not in place here. We only have to deal with 1 civ war for 20 turns at a time. Let's see what Ted has to say. That should be a walk in the park. Of course it's Central Park around 3AM but still, come on. If we can get get 4-6 new towns down and can be building archers and warriors for MP we should be able to easily roll this continent. Once IW comes in, I would think the continent is guaranteed because by that time the only thing to hold us back is travel time.

A lot will depend on our immediate neighbours. Who they are and how many will decide whether or not an early Archer rush is going to be feasible.

Pottery or Writing? This decision is harder and will determine our early strategy before we meet anybody or know enough of our immediate surroundings to make an informed choice. Pottery at max followed by Writing at min would be my "gut" choice, allowing us to get a small native core up & running quickly. We can then help ourselves to the rest of our continent :)

I'll start tomorrow morning.


Ted

THIS IS NOT CONQUESTS! Tech costs and min and max rate have not been altered. Min research to writing will not take 50 turns.

Thanks for reminding us. You really feel PTW is much easier to play than Conquests in many different ways. :)

SGM03-4000BC

0 - 4000BC
Settle on spot
Alice (Worker) W
Research Pottery @90% (15 turns)

1 - 3950BC
Alice road

2 - 3900BC
NTR

3 - 3850BC
NTR

4 - 3800BC
Alice road - mine
Pottery due in 9

IBT
Rome Warrior (Alf) - Barracks

5 - 3750BC
Alf S

6 - 3700BC
Alf S - spots Cattle 2S

7 - 3650BC
Alf SW

8 - 3600BC
Alf W

9 - 3550BC
Alf W

IBT
borders expand

10 - 3500BC
Alice mine - SW
Alf NW - spots Spices
Lux 10%

11 - 3450BC
Alice chops
Alf N

IBT
Rome Barracks - Settler

12 - 3400BC
Alf N - spots river with Game
Research 50% (Pottery @ EoT)

IBT
Discover Pottery - Writing

13 - 3350BC
Alf N

14 - 3300BC
Alf NE

15 - 3250BC
Alf NE - spots more Game

16 - 3200BC
Alf N

17 - 3150BC
Alf NE

18 - 3100BC
Alf E

19 - 3050BC
Alf E

IBT
Rome Settler - Granary

20 - 3000BC
Alf SE
Lux 0%

Notes
Alice should finish the forest chop next turn and can then irrigate & road the Game.

Alf is working his way down the mountains, keeping fairly close to home.

I haven't moved the Settler. I fancy the Red spot with the Floodplain and Game but the team can discuss other options.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM03-Mic-3000BC.jpg


Stats
Game date: 3000 BC
Firaxis score: 86
Jason score: 42

The save is > here < (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/microbe_SG003_BC3000_01.SAV)


Ted

Roster:

TedJackson
Barbslinger - up
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

The cattle also looks delicious.

Like the chop Ted. Often under used method of speeding a granary build. On top of that the irrigation on it will help our early growth curve tremendously. As to next spot to settle, the red is nice but pretty far off with no escort and war may be right around the corner. I was going to play right now but I think I'll wait for the team to chime in. I'm kinda liking 1N of the cow myself.

Do we care about using RCP in this game? Forgetting about RCP for a minute, consider this: Moving Teds dot 1 NW still gets the river, game and the floodplain, but makes room for another little town between our capitol and the mountains. This town could grow to size 4 while we're in despotism (working a mined grass, irrigated plain, and 2 hills) and produce 7spt before waste. If we could hold it to 6spt after waste, that's a nice little 5-turn legionnaire factory that won't be too hard to keep happy...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM03_microbe_3dots.jpg

It seems we have almost no military, so I'd rather send the settler to a spot that is safest, i.e., where AI is mostly likely not around.

Forget my site by the cow. I had a quick look at the save before coming into work and it is not fresh water there. The site 1 SE of the E wheat looks to be on river and we will end up roading the wine soon anyhow.

SGOTM3 – 3000BC

Preturn- Chop is due next turn, nice. Decide to send settler E towards wheat.
IT – A hoplite cruises in from the S 2 tiles SE of the settler.
[1] 2950 – God, I hope they don’t contact us. I don’t want a 1st war against 1.3 hoplites. ALF SW spots gold on a mountain. Worker irrigates and settler continues holding his breath saying hi to the hoplite 1 tile away.
IT – Hoplite cruises by no diplo screen yet.
[2] 2900 – Settler continues SW. Alf heading home.
IT – Hoplite heads E.
[3] 2850 – Settler to settle spot. Alf continues home.
IT – Hoplite N scouting.
[4] 2800 - Veii planted, set to Rax to possibly swap to military. Granary is still 13 turns.
IT – Hoplite out of view to the north by the gold mountain.
[5] 2750 – Irrigation complete, set to road. I put citizen on irrigation to get 4,4,2 food to get a citizen quicker.
IT – NTR
[6] 2710 – Alf goes a little further S on the mountains in our SE to defog.
[7] 2670 – Put citizen on mine with growth next turn.
[8] 2630 – Send worker to wines and to road to Veii. Lux up.
[9] 2590 – Roading wines. Alf will be heading home.
[10] Nothing really.

After the Hoplite came up I double checked the rules and read we don’t have to initiate contact. I would not open the F4 screen because we are NOT ready for war. Our score, when I checked was 105 and Greece was there with 112. He is probably our closest neighbor and I’m hoping we “meet” someone else first that is a little further away and does not have hoplites.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm3-mic-2550bc.jpg

Good turns there 'slinger... we need some unit factories in the worst way... I hate hoplites... but at least Greece has Bronze working... :rolleyes:

I'm scared. We have two empty towns!

We probably shouldn't have been building a granary before we have _some_ defense.

I'll get to this tomorrow night.

Quote" We probably shouldn't have been building a granary before we have _some_ defense."
I felt the same. But if we can avoid contact, or get contact from a far civ I think things will be OK. POP is POWER and the granary will definately help. Rome has a lot of bg's. Squeeze out another worker a few builds after the granary. I was worried about contact the most. The granary in 8 will drop in 3 turns and it will be in about 5. Hold onto your shorts Microbe and pray for non-contact from Alex. If we can get by these few 4- turns of non-contact wit a granary and 2 barracks I think we will be OK. It is still very early and expansion is on. I'm hoping for a far off contact that will trigger our first war. Then it will take 10 turns for them to get to us and by that time we will be fine. Now, Iron is another question. With the rules in place like they are, almost AW, I can't imagine it is far off or all the variant teams would meet with doom. Hoping for no contact. Hopefully someone other than the greeks will contact us first.

I concur with 'slinger.

The contact rules for this game gave us a small window of opportunity at the beginning of the game to build some expansion potential. As a precaution, I built a Barracks at Rome as my 2nd build to give us a fallback position if contacts came thick & fast. I'm sorry I didn't make this clearer in my EoT notes.

We're definitely on the right track here (IMHO) and should avoid changing our strategy mid-term.


Ted

Granarium is danger, but as Slinger said also power. It was a decision I would make every time, especially with the "chicken-scouting".

Looks like someone is spoilered here. :)

I'm saying this because I never played the game and a look on the map says it all.

The foes are up north, since they hardly can be south. But even taking the chance on walking the mountain-range was a risk, as the granarium was and we have to chance something to get a leverage.

Now we need a couple of units and then a barracks for vets. I promptly demand that!

Last time people didn't listen to me, we sucked.

Forget that, Armamentarium is barracks?

Next city should be N of the cow. Now at least I said something useful.

I'm assuming that if our first war is with Greece we're going to scrap the archer rush idea...

I'll play this tonight.

I just finished an intense deity 5CCC game, so I'll have to postpone this to tomorrow night.

I quickly looked at the save. I guess I'll move the warrior to Veii for garrison and pray no attack during my turns.

See if there is any one new on our F4 by looking at F8 scoring. If there is someone new I would declare on them so we don't have to deal with Greece.

lurker:

Hi chaps. Just warning you I may see this thread. I remember this game very well and am sure you will have a blast.

It might interest you to know that one of the main discussion points in the original game QSC (which was superb at that time) was the importance of chopping the game forest down and irrigating it. This is of course the right thing to do but many players back then (even very good ones) didn't do it. I see that you did the right thing straight away though :goodjob:

I think that the level of play is much higher in general now, and am sure you will trounce most of the original players scores, especially my score. :cry:

Good luck.

After reading the discussions on contact it looks like even if Alex rings us up we can just hang up the phone. If he does call hang up. We are not ready for war yet. Let's hold off on war until we have at least a couple warriors and some gold for trade to get BW (spears). Our initial war will probably be defensive in nature as we will be trying to get some more towns down. The drawback to no contact is that we fall behind in tech. As soon as we meet someone else get a war started so we can then sort our contacts out and create our "to-do" list of civs. We can also then trade to IW and get cracking on an offensive.

Now this is confusing. I was under the impression that if the AI contacted us first, e.g. the diplo window is opened, then contact is made?

I think Barbslinger is talking about starting from the point that "The Greeks have requested and audience, will you listen?"... and answering "No, Not NOW!".

Unfortunately, I don't think we get that option. Alex can just pop up and say "Greetings"... and which point the diplomacy screen has been opened, and we must declare war.

Yes. Scout is right. The amendment reads"If an opponent that you have not made contact with yet tries to extort gold, maps or techs from you, then contact is only made if you give in to the demand. If you do not give in to the demand, then we can assume that diplomatic relations have not been established."
But, as Scout said, if it is a greeting then war is on.

"The Greeks have requested and audience, will you listen?"

I can't remember I ever saw that in the early stages of a game, they just jump in and violate my privacy :)

And btw, they don't come to just say hello, like the human player, they do it if there is something to trade. I think?

And btw, they don't come to just say hello, like the human player, they do it if there is something to trade. I think?Then perhaps we ought to make sure that we're researching the same thing they're researching... at max...

I played one turn, at war with Greece and I have a question about the rules.

We JUST met England after that. I haven't dialed up yet, but do we have to declare on her in 20 turns from the moment we know her (now), or from the moment we are at the diplo table for the first time?

We got Bronze Working btw, so we can at least build spears.

Which direction is Greece from?

On the first question it depends on if you were at the diplo screen. If you wern't it is not contact.
As to the direction of Greece. The first hoplite came from the south. The others I saw and the one from the south were in the E so I would venture a guess of SE.

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/microbe_SG003_BC2110_01.SAV)

preturn: I switch "cervus" in Rome to wines to get granary two turns earlier. We'll grow and build granary in 6 turns. We should always do this - never grow just before granary is built. Of course also consider we need to switch to military asap..

(1)2510BC: move warrior to Veii.

IBT: Damn it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3-2550BC.jpg

I accept the offer.

We are level in tech with Greece, and I declare war.

An England scout JUST met us before that! :cry:

(2)2470BC: I do not dial up England. I think we'll do that after we have Writing, to delay the "contact". It's not likely that it gets Iron Working so no hurry.

(3)2430BC: ZZZ

IBT Veii rax->spear in 5 turns with no food surplus.

(4)2390BC: We connect wines.

(5)2350BC: Ugly, two Greek warriors approach from the east and can reach us in 2 turns. I have to whip a spear out of Veii.

IBT another Greek warrior appears from the east, and a hoplite appears from the north and can reach our undefended capital in 3 turns. We'll have to whip the capital.

IBT vet spear defends off a reg warrior and promotes, without a scratch!

(6)2270BC: Whip spear in capital. We'll lose the wines, however.

IBT reg warrior loses to elite spear and takes out 2-hp. reg warrior kills our spear and is redlined! Hoplite steps upon our wines.

(7)2230BC: Alf kills the warrior and promotes to vet. Have to raise lux to 30 to avoid riot.

IBT Wines get pillaged.

(8)2190BC: lux to 20 as Alf returns Veii.

(9)2150BC: the hoplite returns.

(10)2110BC: ZZZ

I haven't dailed up England yet, so if this means the 20-turn hasn't started counting we are fine. But with Writing in I think they'll offer techs to us. Hope they'll get iron working!

In retrospect, I think the reason Greece offered us tech was because we had saved enough money.

This game is in a tough situation now. We whipped in both towns. We should keep producing units.

I just asked the rules and read the answer carefully, and I think we have to declare on England in about 11 turns (20 turns after the start of the war). If we choose to delay contact withEngland even later, then we'd have to declare on it as soon as we make contact.

So I guess it means we may just contact England and see what it has right now anyway, since it wouldn't matter.

I'm looking at the maintanance thread scores and the read there and I think almost everyone doing the variant is engaged with Greece I think Spears for defense is key right now. Hoplites won't attack a spear with 1 offense. Play defensive and build. We can now meet every one else, be sure to keep careful track of meeting. We MUST get to IW. Deals are importantant and build towns on the opposite side of greece and away from England. this is tougher than I anticipated. Hold your breath guys.

A granary or 6 warriors? Now we know.

My turn I guess, don't really feel like it...but play tomorrow.

Tough choices Gozpel. If they are close we may lose a city. Spears seem to be the order of the day. Defense and work the the other civs for IW while settling West. Tough menu, admittedly, I think you can handle.

Let's see, Microbe declared war IBT turns 1 and 2. The way I understand the variant, we must declare war on England 20 turns after meeting them, regardless of where we stand with Greece... Must I declare on Englad during my first turn? Or can it wait until the 2nd?

Read this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2005617&postcount=2).

We have to declare on the next AI 20 turns after we declare on the previous one, or we make the first contact with it, whichever is sooner.

@Microbe: I've read that, but since we declared war in between turns, do we declare war on England no later than 20 turns after your first turn, or 20 turns after you second?

Assuming we're not already at war with England when I get this game, do I need to dial up Lizzy and declare war on my first turn, or second?

Maybe I'll just declare in pre-flight to be safe... :lol:

I wonder if we ought to call this "Xenophobic NOW, Barrister sub-variant". :crazyeye:

I will play 9 turns since someone played one extra. Leave builds on spears.

2070bc - ---

2030bc - Rome spear -> archer.

1990bc - IT - England say hello and want to trade CB for 49g, I don't want it. Check what they have though which is Masonry, Wheel and IW. I try to see what she wants for Wheel, but we don't have enough. We will learn Writing in 9t, so we can broker then.

Or do we have to declare before that?

I can see Greece borders E of Veii.

1950bc - ---

1910bc - Veii spear -> archer

1870bc - Rome archer -> settler

1830bc - ---

1790bc - We can see pink on the histoscreen. Time to build a queue for war :)

I ask Lizzy what she wants for IW, it is contact Greece and 40g. Done. We have iron within our borders!

We have 4 turns left on Writing, I say hello to Joan and ask what she wants for it. Contact Greece, 3 gpt and 40g for 4 turns of research. No thanks. What about contact with America then, Greece contact and 40g. I take it and our bank is back on zero. I would've liked to get Writing now, or at least another contact, but I don't want to pay gpt and now the AI will trade away the contacts next turn. But at least our bank is empty.

Say hello to Abe and ask what he wants for CB and the Wheel, which is Alphabet and IW. Done deal. If I had traded for Writing before I probably would've done better. Ah well, we got the 2 techs that is necessary for a decent warfare.

We have horses west of Rome and thats where the next settler is going, I hope. There's another source S of Veii.

We still haven't talked to Russia, Babs and Germany and without gold they might leave us alone for a bit. Not that it matters.

1750bc - ---

A settler is due in 2t. We need another worker and a couple of more archers I think, and then some warriors for upgrade.

I hope I did the trades correctly and even more I hope I did the right trades, it's really hard when you can't haggle. We learn Writing in 3t and have to declare on Lizzy in a couple of turns, on turn 20 from the first war, right? Or can we choose opponent? I'm still confused.

I hope I did the trades correctly and even more I hope I did the right trades, it's really hard when you can't haggle. We learn Writing in 3t and have to declare on Lizzy in a couple of turns, on turn 20 from the first war, right? Or can we choose opponent? I'm still confused.Well, you've certainly left us no shortage of enemies! :crazyeye: A paratrooper's paradise! We're completely surrounded, we can attack in any direction!
[dance]

@Gozpel: I noted you circled the 2 hills I noted as possible unit pumps. Since your sites aren't quite RCP, and we've now got three proposed sites in the general area of that iron... do we want to take a day for some planning/discussion? (IIRC, Ted put a dot on the tile NE of Gozpel's site, I suggested the hill... which would get the iron immediately as it turns out...)

My gut tells me this game is going to get a little dicier on my turns, since I'll be declaring at some point... so I'm inclined to wait a day or so for discussion, if that's okay with the team.

Where did the "extra" turn come from? Will that affect the declaration on England?

I got the game at 2190 and it's usually 2150 to have the correct dates. microbe can make the list of our opponents :)

I decided to get a couple of contacts because we needed the techs and with money in the bank someone would've contacted us first. Not much choice really, except I could've hunkered down and hope to get IW from the wishing well.

@Microbe: I've read that, but since we declared war in between turns, do we declare war on England no later than 20 turns after your first turn, or 20 turns after you second?

I think it's safe to assume IBT itself doesn't count as a turn. So the next turn counts as the first turn of the war, and you declare at 21st turn?

@gozpel: We cannot choose opponent since you have dialed up AI in that order.

As always with my dotmaps they can be changed. I just put it down as I would build it, approxiamtely anyways. I wanted all city sites to have a chance to work on a BG or similar.

And if you ever read any GOTM or stuff where I participated, you would know I couldn't care less about RCP as I spawn like the devil :) My thought is a town is a town and as long as it is there it will build stuff, sooner or later :)

I got the game at 2190 and it's usually 2150 to have the correct dates. microbe can make the list of our opponents :)

I decided to get a couple of contacts because we needed the techs and with money in the bank someone would've contacted us first. Not much choice really, except I could've hunkered down and hope to get IW from the wishing well.Oh don't get me wrong Gozpel, I thought you did fine with the contacts and trading. Once we get things ironed out with the point I need to declare on England, it'll actually simplify the variant play a bit. We've got 2 sources of iron, some stuff in the queue, and some stupid AI is already plowing shields into a wonder for us. Maybe we'll get lucky and Alex will plow some shields into a wonder too.

Since we're up against Greece, and the warriors-to-legions now looks feasible... should I forget about archers and build warriors and maybe a spear or two?

After writing, should we go for Lit? It'd be good if we could get a leader and rush the GL..

I didn't dial up Lizzy, she came to us and intruded. She will pay for that!

Then the list will be France and America.

So the "Order of Gone" looks something like this?

England <-VERY soon (scoutsout)
France <-20 turns after declaration on England (Barbslinger)
America <- 20 turns after declaration on France (Gozpel)

Order not yet set: Russia, Babylon, Germany

Okay - per Mad Bax, we don't have to declare on England until 20 turns after the turn that followed the IBT declaration on Greece, which was 2470 BC. There are just a couple of things in with our timeline that are messing me up.

Gozpel played 9, because he noted an "extra". At first I thought it was Ted, because he counted to 20 from 0, but then I looked at Microbe's turnlog, and picked this up:

(5)2350BC: Ugly, two Greek warriors approach from the east and can reach us in 2 turns. I have to whip a spear out of Veii.

IBT another Greek warrior appears from the east, and a hoplite appears from the north and can reach our undefended capital in 3 turns. We'll have to whip the capital.

IBT vet spear defends off a reg warrior and promotes, without a scratch!

(6)2270BC: Whip spear....

So there's the only "extra" that matters.

Since Microbe declared war between his first and second turn (and he played 11), it looks to me like I need to declare on England before the end of my first turn.

Does this sound right to you guys?

I think you can declare on your second turn.

I declared between turn 1&2, and according to mad-bax it starts at turn 2.

...okay - and Gozpel played 9... so I can still wait until turn 2 to declare... it's slowly sinking in. :coffee:

I'll get this played tomorrow. If I play tonight, I'm liable to fall victim to "Barblsinger's beer-swillin', sword-swingin' rules of Civ"....

It's now 3 am And the beer warrior I am says Sling HO! Pay no attention this post, It looks alike a defensive war for a while with spears and somday legions taking care of business. This is shaping up as AW. Let's get it on. We have iron and a granary. We could could go OCC and take out the oposition from here.

Pre-flight check (1750): We need more of just about everything.

Joan will trade us HBR for 6g+6gpt, I take the deal. Abe won't trade Masonry... which we need for Math (and catapults)

IBT - strangely quiet....

Turn 1 (1725) Not much to do yet...

IBT - Rome Settler>Worker, Treasury warning

Turn 2 (1700) Drop lux to 10%, +1gpt
Wake a spear in Rome and send it with the settler towards the horses.
Dial up Lizzy, tell her that she reminds me of my 7th grade math teacher that I never liked, stick my virtual tongue out at her :p and declare war.

Just before hitting enter, I hit F1, and note that Rome will riot because I moved a spear out. I have to hire a dadgum tax collector to keep our treasury at breakeven...

IBT - We learn writing, Set queue to Math through Masonry

Turn 3 (1675)

Diplo Check
France: Up Masonry and Myst, has contact with Babylon, Russia, Germany
America: Same contacts, up same techs, down HBR and Writing. Will take contact w/ Greeks, HBR, and Writing for Masonry and Myst. I take that deal, because it's the last one we'll get for a while.

Move settler pair to horse tile

Wake Alf in Veii and send him to Rome for MP duty

I am forced to convert the tax collector in Rome to a clown, because we can't afford lux tax until that settler founds a town.

IBT - Rome Worker>Spear, another treasury warning

Turn 4 (1650)
We are at tech parity with known civs.
New worker to wines
Alice starts roading
Antium founded on horses, starts a rax
Zoom to Rome, fire the clown, take lux to 20%, +1gpt, Math in 39.

IBT - nada

Turn 5 (1625)
Start roading wines, move Alf towards Rome

IBT - Two Greek Warriors pop out of the fog, 1 is 2N of Veii, 1 is 2 E.
Veii Archer>Warrior, Zoom to Veii (it has grown) put citizen on forest to go from 2spt to 4spt, next archer in 5t (Fingers crossed)

Turn 6 (1600)
2 Archers in Veii await the arrival of Greek Warriors
Alf arrives in Rome in time to do us some good.

IBT - Greek Warriors advance

Turn 7 (1575)
Vet Archer kills Greek Warrior E 3/4
Vet Archer flawlessly kills Greek Warrior N in forest
We lost our MP power in Veii, lux to 30%
MM Veii for +5spt (halts growth) I don't like killing growth, put it back... but if we can squeeze one more shield out of Veii, we can make a Warrior every other turn...
Move Alice to connect Antium to Empire

IBT - Rome Spearman>Archer
English complet Oracle
America cascades to Pyramids

Turn 8 (1550) Archers back to Veii, Alice roads, lux to 10%
France is now up Map Making

IBT - Veii Warrior>Archer (we can use the warrior for MP when Archers are out)
French cascade to Pyramids

Turn 9 (1525)
Fortify the Warrior in Veii, give archers a rest
Rome's not happy, lux to 20%
Wines will be roaded in 2 turns.

IBT - Border expansion, a Greek Archer shows up East of Veii

Turn 10 (1500)
France is now up Literature
Rest the units, time for the next better player...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_1500BC_sitrep.jpg

After action review:

The good: We've got horses and Horseback riding, which gives us another tactical option. I hope you guys don't mind researching Math, but it was the only tech we didn't have that would give us another military option.

The bad: I would like to use catapults to soften up those Hoplites...but the terrain over there looks a little rough. Perhaps we could use a few horses to knock a few hit points off before sending move1 units in...

The ugly: Our economy sucks. I know the gpt deal I cut with France is part of that problem, but we're going to need to really watch the sliders for the next 2-3 turnsets until we get some more cities down.

Notes: Rome could be swapped to a settler. We've got 18 shields in the bin towards its archer. I thought we might need an archer over in Antium, but it looks like coast over there...

I'm off to upload the save.

Nice turns and good choices. I would like to have another settler out fast and put him on the hill SSE of Rome, next to the other horse. This to give us another town to build units and building towns N right now might be dangerous. Alternative spot N of the cow.

Every city counts and we surely need them. We also need some offensive units to to give the Greeks a whack on the head before they start assembling stacks.

Half a dozen archers or a few archers and horses "should" be able to do that.

The safer alterantive is to build warriors and upgrade, but where's the economy to do that?

Our cities are too far away. For example, Antium should be built on the hill for defensive bonus and within 3-tiles with the capital. Now even with road we cannot reinforce the two cities in one turn. This could cause serious problems.

I did see gozpel had the original dotmap, but I didn't have time to comment on it..

I think we have to play this as an AW game.

@Microbe: Sorry you don't like the Antium spot... I follow your logic. Here's a stab at a dotmap given what we've got to work with from this point.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_1500_dotmap.jpg

I should have numbered these... consider the 3 cites to the northwest as a group. Any unit in the center city could make it to either flanking city in a turn. (Or from a flank to the center). Additionally, any unit in Antium could reinforce the western flank.

On the 2 cities to the northeast: These could grow to size 4, and be held there, each getting an irrigated plain or two (or a mined grass or two), and 2 mined hills. Hopefully these would produce 5-6 uncorrupted spt, and be 5-6 turn Legion factories.. The northerly one could put a unit in "NW Central" in one turn.

On the southerly cities: The western one is 3 tiles from Antium. The central one (1SW of slinger's spot) claims the cow and a BG. The eastern one is a bit of a reach, but won't cramp Rome... borders should extend to let this city work the BG 3 SW of Veii.

While no units could make it from Rome to the outer cities in a single turn, there is a little flexibility in this I think...

I don't know if this is helpful or not... but those are my thoughts.

I still like my dotmap, but see the logic behind scout's thoughts. As long as we put more cities on the map, I'm happy.

Territory counts against score, so to spread out our ring won't hurt, even if it will be harder to defend or transfer units between towns.

Here's another dotmap for discussion purposes. I've numbered the squares, and plotted Gozpel's suggested sites in blue (his dotmap is on the previous page). Ted's suggestion for "Square 3" is the red dot.

It appears Gozpel and I like the same placements for 4, 5, and 8. We differ slightly on squares 2 and 7. I can't recall if Barbslinger liked Gozpel's placement for the cow town, or if he just wanted to claim the cow. Gozpel and I differ most on 6 (which we probably won't settle in the next 10 anyway). We've got 3 different proposals for a site in Square 3.

So... Microbe, Ted, 'slinger: You've got input from Gozpel and me. The map is offered for reference on what's been discussed to this point.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_Microbe_1500bcDISCUSSionmap.jpg

We need a coastal city (unless we know it's pangea?), and the best spot seems to be SW to yellow dot 1? Could we send a warrior to explore around that area?

Maybe it's not a problem but yellow dot 6 is a little spreaded thin to me.

But almost all scout's cities are on hills, which I love.

Hard to decide.

Site 6 is admittedly thin. Moving it west to the hill would still avoid settling on the BG... but would leave it cramped for other useful tiles. If we put 6 on Gozpel's site (blue dot) then Gozpel's site for 7 (cow) makes more sense than my placement...

If we put 6 on Gozpel's site, I think we'd get the extra shield from the BG/city center when the town hits size 7...and Rome probably wont need all of those regular grass tiles between Rome and site 6... The south is vexing, for sure. I'm starting to lean a little more towards Gozpel's sites in the south. I believe the pattern in the north will hinge on whatever we decide to do in Square 3 (where we have 3 proposed placements).

There is a spice on the coast 2 SW of Antium. In retrospect, Antium on the hill would have left room for a coastal city ON the spice, but I did not know that until after Antium was founded. (That fog was rolled back by Antium's borders.) At that time I was running on the ragged edge of cash flow and riots, and didn't have a lot of time to let a settler pair wander around looking for a home...

I suspect there is room for a town 2W of "Site 8". That would be a coastal site... depending on which way the coast goes, we might be able to loosen that up to a city-tile-tile-city spacing from Site 8, depending on the shape of the coast.

Once we get a couple more cities down we might be able to afford some archer/spear pairs to do a little reconnaisace.

TedJackson - up
Barbslinger - on deck
microbe
gozpel
scout

There's a problem with the submissions database this morning so I'll catch up on the thread today & try to pick up the save later.


Ted

Got it,

but probably won't be able to play until tomorrow :(


Ted

SGM03-Mic-1500BC

Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:
As far as I can tell I need to declare on America and/or France by turn 10.
Press button...

IBT
Greek Archer arrives E Veii
Rome Archer - Settler

1 - 1475BC
Vet Archer kills Archer & promotes
Workers head for Iron hill
Lux 0%

IBT
England starts Great Lib

2 - 1450BC
2nd Worker starts roading Iron

IBT
NTR

3 - 1425BC
Lux 20%

IBT
Russia offers contact with Germany for 30gp - I decline
Babylon offers contact with Germany for 30gp - I decline
Veii Archer - Spear
Antium Barracks - Spear

4 - 1400BC
Archer fort Veii

IBT
Rome Settler - Horse
Russia starts Great Lib

5 - 1375BC
Settler (& Spear + Archer escort) heads North to Scout's site 3
Iron is hooked up!
Lux 0%

IBT
Greeks want Writing for Peace - Ha!
France starts Great Lib

6 - 1350BC
Settler continues toward Iron
Lux 20%

Greek Archer appears 2E of Veii
Babylon starts Great Lib

7 - 1325BC
Settler continues onward
Rome switches to Legion

IBT
NTR

8 - 1300BC
Settler continues

IBT
Rome Legion - Settler
Veii Spear - Legion

9 - 1275BC
Upgrade vet Warrior at Veii
Settler arrives on-site
Legion (Rome) heads for Veii

IBT
NTR

10 - 1250BC
Lux 20%
Cumae founded

The Neighbourhood
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGM03-Mic-1250BC.jpg

Notes
By the rules we have to declare on France or America this turn. I leave the choice to the next player.

I founded Cumae to (hopefully) deny Iron to one of the AI. If the Iron weren't visible I would have gone South to NE of the Cattle as this site is coastal (1 food).

The Archer & Spear (W & N of Cumae) are just taking a peek and should be moved back into Cumae next turn.

There are a couple of Greek Archers to the East of Veii. Theyy've been loitering there for a few turns now.

The save is > here < (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/microbe_SG003_BC1250_01.SAV)



Ted

Looks pretty good. Another couple of settlers and we should be able to hold off any invasion. Gotta get something over towards our left flank it looks like. I would really hate to lose a city. I think we need to play a bit on the defensive side still, especially with the Greeks. I'll take a look at the save and post my thoughts.

Post deleted. I suffered a brain cramp. I need more :coffee:

I like the look of the neighborhood now. I guess we're not going to bother with a warriors-to-legions upgrade... and it looks like a despotic GA while we're a 5cc is in the offing. We need some workers...

We need to settle a town 3 tiles NW to our capital. Cumae might be the best target of AI.

TedJackson
Barbslinger - up
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

We need to settle a bunch of towns. You have my $0.02 on placement, but I made no attempt to prioritize. I wonder if we ought to go after the cow soon. Since we will eventually get into some "raze and replace" operations, we may need a second town capable of providing settlers (or workers).

I'm also thinking of going into an AW mode by building walls in ALL towns. I saw Ted had started a wall in our northern town. Veii can have a wall in 1 with 1 turn MM. What we need is towns, legions, workers and map info. If there is a choice between France and Abe I think I like Abe to declare on. Joanie is further ahead in tech and we can hopefully use that to get to MM and math. I'll play tonight after digesting info. I also like a town by the cow. I don't want Greece sneaking a hoplite/settler down there and having a path to our backdoor. the cow will give some nice growth.

Revised turnlog due to screwup!

SGOTM3Mic – 1250BC – Swap Veii to walls because they will be needed. Abe has one less city and Joanie is a better trading partner by nature so it will be war with Abe after I see about some trades. Sell WM to Cathy and dial sliders around and get Philo for 6gpt, WM and our change. More dialing and Cathy will give us MM for 8gpt. However, we can’t get WM from Abe for philo and MM!!!! Arghh. Get German contact + 1g from Hammi for WM and then and Germany gives us WM for philo,MM and WM. France is just to our north.
IT – 4 English warriors head S towards Antium.
[1] 1225 – Cumae spear gets settled into the city while the archer goes on walkabot to hopefully give us more WM coinage. MM for gold and research is off I’m afraid. Send Rome spear to Antium.
[2] 1200 – Spear gets to Antium to brace for attack. Kill a Greece archer.
IT – We defend against 3 of 4 warriors going elite with both spears. Rome Settler> Archer.
[3] 1175 – Swapping units around and single sci in Rome. Heading settler 3 NW of Rome.
[4] 1150 - Settler arrives at hill. Spear right behind him. Cash is now 5g +0gpt. Math in 22.
IT – A hoplite to the NE of Veii looks to want to pillage. Cumae – Walls-Rax.
[5] 1125 – Found Neapolis which helps our gold. Rome goes to spear build. 6g+2gpt.
IT – Greece has a settler pair headed to the cow spot. Which I would have followed my hunch on that but we really need a road to our north and the city will help.
[6] 1100 – Move workers to road north. Kill a Greece archer.
IT – Veii-Leg>Leg. Hoplite moving towards wines now.
[7] 1075 – Playing chess with hoplite. Rome goes to single sci for grow and now a settler in 3. Kill 2 greece archer with one promo.
[8] 1050 – Joanie will give math for 7gpt and our change but it would kill our gold.
IT - Germany lands the pyramids. Atium-Walls>vetoable horse. We can now get math for 6gpt and 21g from Joan only but I don’t think Otto will budge with out some cash and we have no slider dialing room.
[9] 1025 – Nada
IT - Archer that walked a bit from Veii spots a Greece horse incoming.
[10] Forget because I’m in a hurry for work but nothing notable. Research is off because math is on the table. The math deal with Joan an swing when we found next town and then hopefully Otto will still need it and will offer something. Also, I built no workers but we need them for gold producing roads.

This run using Xenophobe came up with us lacking lit. It really pays off to dial sliders around before looking for trades. Dial them all the way down to see what is on the block for sale and then dial back. There can’t be a rule against that. I also found that they still want a better deal than if you haggle. 2 of the deals I looked to see if they would take less and they would but we are locked in this Xenophobe deal. I then took what they offered.
It looks like a GA will be commencing soon. Our archers are still holding the line but I think we will probably trigger when Greece shows up inmasse at Veii.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM2mic1000bc.jpg

Turnlog updated. Bump

I'll play tonight.

preturn: I continue research Math in 16 turns as that's cheaper.

I continue the min research on Math anyway. In retrospect I wonder why we didn't go for Poly and beeline to Monarch.

I switch horsemen to legions. I think legions are better deal with the same cost. We have to make the best of our UU.

(1)975BC: move settler.

(2)950BC: Elite archer attacks reg warrior and drops 4 straight hp. But it kills the warrior.

(3)925BC:

IBT France demands 20g, I refuse. She declares.

(4)900BC: We got our gpt payment back from France.

Germany gets Math too so no brokering possible.

Elite archer kills another reg warrior.

IBT America wants 40g for peace. England wants more. Our spear retreats a horse.

(5)875BC: Elite archer kills redlined horse.

(6)850BC: Vet archer kills reg warrior and capture two slaves. Kill English scout.

IBT reg French warrior promotes our archer.

(7)825BC: vet archer kills reg hoplite in Knossos. There is another one inside.

IBT France MA with Babylon against us.

(8)800BC: 4-hp elite archer kills American warrior and captures another pair of slaves.

Our heroic archer at Knossos kills another reg hoplite and promotes! Knossos is razed. Our settler heads that way.

There is silks just outside Antium. Still a long way to connect.

IBT England drops a reg horse.

(9)775BC: ZZZ

IBT the english horse doesn't attack.

(10)750BC: nothing.

Now two AIs declared on us. I'm not sure how to calculate the date now.

Math is in 6 turns. Some cats would help us to go some offense. After that I think we should go Polytheism.

We have some elite units. I really want a leader and rush Great Library.

We haven't triggered GA yet.

Two reg French swords are coming toward Cumae. We need some reinforcement there.

This is the current map:

Wow! I know the cash was tight but refusing France was risky. They are huge, the leaders and will bring the house and the neighbors. Fingers are crossed.

Maybe you are right, but we were supposed to declare on her very soon anyway, if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe you are right, but we were supposed to declare on her very soon anyway, if I'm not mistaken. That is true. I think in 7-8 turns. This game will prove to be very interesting and I now regret not going for a ring 3. Cumae will be tough to defend. Our GA will certainly help. I htink we should try to dig our selves into the S and SW and get another town NE of Rome. then buckle down for AW. If the greece lands were not so mountainous I would really want to get those guys out of here. Thinking about it maybe we should concentrate offensively on them.
too bad we can't MA to get Joanie busy.
BTW the annoucement said this is occillating. When does the ocillation start. :lol: this is more like Incremental AW.

I'm not so sure that we ought to really fear the French at this point...in looking at her cites, most seem to be size 1... if we could manage to hammer Paris, we could clip her wings good... and there's plenty of rough terrain along the way that gives our Legions a defensive advantage along the way...make one decisive thrust and France would be gassed.

All it will take is for Cathy to get in the mood for some elbow room, and all of our neighbors to the north are going to have their hands full. Sack Paris soon, and we just might weaken France enough so that Russia, America, or Germany decide to take advantage...

Hmmm... thinking out loud here... our GA is coming soon whether we like it or not... but the Legion is a tough unit for anybody to deal with in rough terrain... and Rome was built on Roman Roads...

What would you guys think about this...some small stacks of Legions and workers.... road our way to Greece, make a few catapults to soften up the Hoplites...

TedJackson
Barbslinger
microbe
gozpel - up
scout - on deck

Scout, you can take it if you want.

Just a quick note to let you know I'm tracking, but this is not quite a got it. I'm a little off my RL game today... but if I can't get to it tonight I'll play tomorrow night (unless Gozpel jumps in).

Edit: Just checked 2.0 Gram, and Gozpel posted something a few days back about a presentation mid-week... so I won't hold my breath for him to jump in here before Wednesday... maybe we can call it a swap if he comes back in a day or two.

I thought I asked for a swap here too, but I can't see the post. I'm easily confused.

scout is right about my presentation, it's due tomorrow (8 A4) and needs some polishing. Then a whole bunch of people have to listen to my drivel :)

I can play thursday, so a swap is ok by me.

@Gozpel: Good luck with the presentation. Knock 'em dead, break a leg, etc.

I'll play this tomorrow night. Any priorities, suggestions, goals, whatever from the team would be appreciated.

We are losing ground in score again, the same happened in last game when we sat back on our fat behinds and built stuff.

We need to go on the offensive very soon or we can be happy to end up in the middle of the table :) Those early point gainage are hard to catch up on if we wait forever.

While score is good, the first goal is to win. This isn't an easy game and I personally never had any AW experience except SGOTM1. So I have no comment. Talk is cheap, you'd better get out of you RL and jump in to help. :)

My $0.02 on score: we simply need to settle some more towns. This will be easier when we get a few more unit pumps going, but if we can get into a steady pace of razing AI cities and replacing them with ours... we ought to do okay on score.

Getting those spices hooked up in the west would also be helpful. Any thoughts on the best way to get them? Shoehorn another town in there, or go for a cultural expansion in Antium? (I'd hate to use a worker for a colony...)

I'll probably play this around 8:00 pm EDT (midnight GMT/Zulu) if anybody has any suggestions on what site(s) we ought to settle next... etc., just let me know. (trying to be a team player here...)

Houston, we have a problem.

@Microbe, I hate to be a party pooper, but here is where the game stands: I have played 10 turns. I have not uploaded the save, nor will I, until Mad-Bax makes a ruling on our game. I will only say this about my turns:

On my tenth turn, I whacked a Babylonian settler pair. Just as I was about to move the slaves, I remembered this: This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.<snip>
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
It then occurred to me that I saw a slave worker when I was moving workers around. It turns out that we had 2 French workers when I got the game. They are so much easier to spot in C3C with their little kilts, but I digress... I think the slaves came from this point, but I'm not sure:

(6)850BC: Vet archer kills reg warrior and capture two slaves. Kill English scout.

@Microbe: later in your last turnlog, you note killing an American settler pair, but I saw no American workers in the game. Did you forget to disband the 2 French workers?

@Mad-Bax: On my 10th turn I disbanded the 2 French workers, but I am afraid that we had gotten some benefit from them at that point. Without my save and log, it looks like we're only 4 turns out-of-bounds. The way I see it, we could

1) Ask Microbe to re-play from the point of the mis-cue (if I have correctly identified that point)

2) Accept the turns as they stand, with a big finger-wagging for the mis-cue

3) declare us a non-variant team. :cry:

If we go with #1 or #2 above, I'm afraid I will have to request a skip until the next set.

1) Ask Microbe to re-play from the point of the mis-cue (if I have correctly identified that point)

2) Accept the turns as they stand, with a big finger-wagging for the mis-cue

3) declare us a non-variant team. :cry:

If we go with #1 or #2 above, I'm afraid I will have to request a skip until the next set. If #2 is OK'ed you can post your log scout and we can continue. Option #4 would be to pause 2 workers for 2 turns to even out the production.

Tut tut. ;)

Disband the foreign workers, and pillage any improvements they have made. Then carry on guys. You're not the first, and you won't be the last.

From my memory I don't think these two workers got any chance to work on any tiles yet during my turns. They were just moving I guess. Not sure what they did in Scout's turn. Sorry about that.

From my memory I don't think these two workers got any chance to work on any tiles yet during my turns. They were just moving I guess. Not sure what they did in Scout's turn. Sorry about that.I'll have to compare the first save to my turn 10 save to see what they were up to when I got the game. They did complete something, but I don't know what it was. I'll check everything out and upload/post later on today or this evening.

Pre-flight Check

MM Antium for Legion in 2 (this town needs worker turns)
Upgrade Alf to a Legion

IBT - An American Warrior advances from the north, German Settler pair from the north, French Swords, Greeks...some archers, settler pair moves to horse hill

Turn 1 (730)
Lux to 20% to keep Rome happy
Spears on road move north to Cumae
Dangit. Two workers on the hill, a single spear, and 2 French Swords 1 North, with a warrior that can hit Cumae or the hill...
Legion and a forted English horse... no archers around. I hate to trigger the GA this early, but it looks like we have no choice. English Horse retreats.
Fort the Legion next to the lake (settler will go there)
Elite Archer clips Greek archer on mtn 2SW of Veii, no leader.
Settler SE to Gozpel's site (wish we'd discuss this stuff a bit more)
Wake the Elite Archer on the rockpile and move him NE
Wake the 4/5 archer (next to 2 french swords) and move him SW

IBT - American Warrior and German Settler pair advance. French Warrior dies to spear in Cumae. Both French Swords die to our spear on the hill N of Cumae, promoting him. Greek units shuffle, including a Greek horse that appears in the mountains.
Rome Legion>Settler
Antium Legion>Legion (mm to get it in 5)
London completes the Great Library
Babs, Russians cascade to Great Wall, Americans to Lighthouse

Turn 2 (710)
Elite Archer kills american warrior, sees Babylonian Bowman/settler pair in mountains.
Pisae founded, starts a rax
Legion east out of Antium

A 1 hp english horse on a hill... but with a Greek archer closing on Rome, we can't delay the GA any longer...

Sorry team.

IBT - Greek Settler pair retreats, English archer appears, Germans found a city between us and Paris.

Veii Legion>Legion
Neaopolis Legion>Legion

French building Great Wall, now completed in Paris. Russians cascade to Colossus, Lighthouse

Turn 3 (690) maneuver some units...Legions are on our iron/wine road

IBT - Enemies advance...

Turn 4 (670) unbelievable. A Legion falls to a greek horse on a hill. Second legion retreats him.

IBT - Cumae will become a battleground. English horse kills our Archer
Rome Settler>Legion
Cumae Legion>Legion

Turn 5 (650) move the settler out, move some units

IBT - the Babylonians request and audience... and I can't remember if we're at war with them or not. He wants a peace treaty and 140g. I tell him to shove it.
Math comes in, set queue to Monarchy through Polytheism

Antium Legion>Horse

Turn 6 (630) Dial up Catherine and buy Currency for 200g+5gpt. Dial up Bismarck and buy CoL and Polytheism for Currency + 10gpt.

Whack an English Archer at Cumae. Archer dies to hoplite closing on Rome.

IBT - English archer dies to spear at Cumae.
Antium Legion>Legion
Russia completes Colossus.

Turn 7 (610)
Legion retreats English horse at Cumae, Elite kills it.

IBT - an English horse kills our 3/4 Legion outside Cumae.
Rome Legion>Settler
Pompeii Rax>Worker
English start Sun Tzu's

Turn 8 (590)
Ravenna founded, starts a Rax
Elite Legion flawlessly kills 1/4 English horse at Cumae, sees an English archer and 2 horses on the way. Legion whacks hoplite at Pisae.

IBT - Greeks request an audience and are rebuffed. We get the Forbidden Palace message.
Neaopolis Legion>Legion

Turn 9 (570)
Move some units in the east, whack an English archer at Cumae. Pull a spear back to Rome to escort Settler (Legion went north)

IBT - Antium Horse>Horse

Turn 10 (550)
Lose a legion vs. Babylonian Spear, second legion gets it and 2 slaves.

I just remembered something here... in moving the workers around, I thought I noted...

:wallbash:

We have a French worker. Under the rules of the variant, that guy was supposed to have been disbanded.

Map check... we have two French workers.

Houston, we have a problem. We're supposed to be disbanding captured workers.

I disband the newly captured Babylonian workers, fing the French workers, and disband them too.

Clip a Greek Horse, and get ready to upload the save (and beg Mad-Bax's forgiveness)

Edit: An analysis of what we need to pillage will follow shortly.

Based on my analysis of the saves at the beginning of my turns, end of turns, and a couple of autosaves... the two tiles noted with yellow circles need to be pillaged.

Sorry team.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_we_must_PILLAGE.jpg

If anybody wants a more complet analysis of this, post it or PM me or whatever, and I'll tell you what I saw. If you guys want additional screenies or whatever, just let me know... but not tonight. It's tired, and I'm getting late.

Good job! The worker isn't your fault. It's probably my fault, but let's all accuse MB for it: there are just too many rules in this game! :)

So we are in the GA!

Apologies to the team but RL has reared its ugly head and it looks as if the next month, at least, will be too full for me to play any Civ. This leaves me with no option but to retire from all my SGs :(

Hopefully I'll be back in the autumn.


Ted

@Ted: Sorry to see you go. Hopefully I'll catch you when you get a chance to come back.

So... Gozpel's up, right?

Sorry to hear that Ted. :sad: We definitely need your expertise.

Barbslinger - on deck
microbe
gozpel - up
scout

Ok, I'm back and ready.

Just wondering, who and when will I declare on someone new this time? I have absolutely no idea :)

I think we may be way ahead of the game on war declarations. When I got the game we only had peace with 2 civs...

It'll break a couple of 20-turn deals if you declare on 'em (I bought a couple of techs) but Russia and Germany are the ones we're at peace with.

If it matters, Germany's got a city between us and Paris that needs to be sacked.

I won't declare on anyone if I don't have to, so if someone can do the arithmetics for when next declaration is due, it would help me alot. I don't want mad-bax coming after me with a red flag or something even worse.

I have afternoon classes today and will probably play this tomorrow.

I think sice Microbe refused and France declared before the 20 was up you are in the clear for no declarations. Scout would have had to declare on them and I will have to declare my 1st turn, again. I'm not sure who but I think it is Germany. I think we declare againe at 350BC and then 50AD and then 350AD.
I'll give a look at the save and post thoughts later but Gozpel knows the drill. Kick some tail and hopefully drop some more cities. If that cow spot is still available that would be nice.

I think the order is: Russia, Babylon, Germany

Since scout played before gozpel, gozpel needs to declare on Russia during his 4th turn.

In 1250BC I declared on Abe. Microbe had France declare in 925BC, 8 turns early, but it was not required until 750BC. The next declaration is due 20 turns after that in 350BC.

The rule says: "Once you are at war with an opponent, you must declare war on the next opponent on your contact list before 20 turns have expired since the start of the war."

It doesn't indicate any difference if the war started earlier.

That's my understanding, but maybe you want to ask explicitly about it, especially when a late AI declares early.

If that is the case what happens if you're dogpiled by 4 civs out of the gate. You have to declare 20 turns after the dogpile starts. I think that the spirit of the rule is to add another war opponent every 20 turns. If MB reads this perhaps he can enlighten us as to his intent.

I don't know. I would prefer this game had been a AWE. The rules always confuse me. I would suggest the following SGOTMs have simpler rules so we can actually focus on the game instead of the rules.

Well... the way I figure it... MB's rule was to prevent sandbaggin' ... there's nothing that says we have to wait 20 turns to declare... I think we could just go Xenophobic AWE and still be within the rules of the variant. The wars have come so quickly that the the non-oscillating part is long gone from our game.

I didn't mean to play as AWE now. I don't want to take advantage but since this is a competition anyway (though I am not playing for competition), I don't want to make our life unnecessarily harder either. :)

I think we can go with Barbslinger's understanding if no one jumps out and says he is wrong.

So you call me chicken now, huh? :gripe:

Fine, I declare on everyone as soon I start up the game and I mean everyone. That means the other teams too ;)

Nah, I rather believe Slinger in this case as I feel a bit rusty and I think I will have my handful anyways. I start this tonight if I have time....that's Aussie time, so it will be ready for next player in good time, I hope.

Sorry, never got a chance last night. I opened up GOTM33-Greece and after the Indian-Korean war it was too late. I' have the utmost confidence in Gozpel though.

Pre-turn - Golden Age and only trouble as far as the eye can see :)

MM cities and get us from 11gpt to 17gpt. Work river-tiles and grassland when new builds are almost done. Make worker in Pompeii to build in 1t instead of 2.

That's it, now on to the war.

530bc - IT - Reg english horse attack our elite spear in Cumae and dies, taking 3hp.

Rome settler -> legion. Move settler to the cow, where I wanted it all the time. A town like this can provide with very important workers.

Veii legion > legion. I see the problem and have to take citizens off the commerce tiles for a couple of turns.

Pompeii worker -> warrior. With the cow settled this town would've been roaded and fully functioning already. But I'm not the guy that say I told you so :) We all have plans.

Kill a couple of warriors, elite legion looks for that leader in vain, horse promotes to elite.

Kill 2 greek units, an elite archer does his job but can't find the holy grail.

I have to move on to Greece.

Change a couple of builds to horses.

Pillage the 2 tiles as requested and have to hire a clown in Neapolis.

510bc - IT - Another english horse dies against our valiant elite spear in Cumae, no dice.

Pisae barracks -> warrior.

Elite horse and legion try their luck, they win but still no luck.

Move 6 legions towards Greece.

Move other troops around. Greece have founded a town in the fog S.

490bc - Cumae legion -> warrior. (the N towns aren't connected anymore, remember)

Kill a couple of units, yet again an elite fails.

Our 6 legions are in Greece territory and they answer with 2 settler pairs?

470bc - 2 french swords come to play. (I counter that with 2 elite spears and 1 vet spear and a vet legion on a hill, to make them move to flat ground)

Rome horse -> settler.

Hispalis founded -> warrior.

I ignore the greece settlers and move 6 legions next to Athens. I will attack from a mountain next turn. Ohh, the suspense :)

450bc - IT - Haha, Russia demands TM and 22g, why not? I don't want their roaming spears to pillage. Also IT, Greece move out a horse and an archer out of Athens, how nice.

Antium horse -> horse.
Neapolis horse -> warrior (road the missing tile and switch to horse)

Whack american settler pair with elite horse, disband workers.

Our suicide force give Athens a whack: 6 legions attack 3 hoplites, 3 dies and we raze the city.

430bc - Germany finish the Lighthouse

Greece move what they have against our territory and ignore our wounded legions.

Veii legion -> legion.

Remove 4 units from our territory, including a Babs settler pair, all taken out by elites.
We are in great need of a leader, but noone seems to want to lead us.

410bc - Rome settler -> horse.
Cumae warrior -> legion.
Pisae warrior -> warrior.

Upgrade warrior to legion.

Healing troops and move defense around. We are getting swarmed.

390bc - We defend against french warrior attack in Neapolis.

Ravenna barracks -> legion.
Hispalis warrior -> worker.

Kill 3 greece units.

370bc - Kill Greece archer.
Kill Babs bowman, lose elite archer :(
Kill american sword.

350bc - England and Russia sign alliance against us :)

Rome horse -> horse.
Antium horse -> horse.
Neapolis horse -> horse.

Kill 8 offending units, lose a vet legion.

I managed to get rid of a horde of enemies, but they keep coming. I remember now why I never liked AW, there's hardly time to breathe.

I also build horses to increase our chances to get a very wanted leader, horses retreat and make some impact on the foes, but it seems we lose more than we want anyways in this game.
Ratio should stay at 1:10 or we're toast. An army would make us so good right now, but I wasn't too lucky with that.

Use horses before elite legions, they can pick a hp or two, then the legion finish the job. This is our best chance.

And yeah, retreat troops from Greece, we need them at home right now.

There's a settler E of Veii, he should settle where the Greece units stand, next to the iron.

I didn't care to trade, we probably need to increase research to get into Monarchy.

Well now we have another opponent. Grand! This is AW. Who is MB fooling!

I forgot to mention that the AI's are building Sun Tzu, so we're in deep water techwise.

A couple of thoughts: We could try to get Monarchy from Germany before they declare on us, by zero research and gpt deal. We can always play rotten and declare on them instead?

We should use one of our W towns as bait to lure the AI over there. They almost always bypass defended cities for an undefended town and we can kill them off as they walk by.

I'm already lost in when we need to declare next. Hopefully we don't need to worry about that as we'll be declared on instead. :)

The best news is that we FINALLY go on offense. It would be good to free up the east.

Do you guys think we need another player? I can PM some people to see if they are interested.

Barbslinger - up
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

"The best news is that we FINALLY go on offense. It would be good to free up the east."

Well, someone had to take the risk and we lost 3 legions because I did it. But we whacked Athens and that should be worth something. The other Greek cities S of us is a mere cleaning up process, when we get to that.

Another player would be great, a 4-player roster is too busy.

Thinking makes my head hurt, I went to the pub yesterday and I am so hangover...I should go back to bed.

But, we need to squeeze out a few more settlers ASAP to move our frontlines. The current horsebuilds can be switched for that. We have a few troops that can protect them for now and with my other advise "lure-town" we can expand.

@Gozpel: Have a look at Antium before you scrap the horse builds. I MM'd 2 citizens to forest because so little is improved at Antium. It is not growing from size 4. I started horse builds there to give us something to skirmish with at Cumae. There are units of just about every nationality flowing towards Cumae....

You should be able to get a settler out of Antium in... 4-5 turns... but it may take a little while for Antium to bounce back. One of the French workers I disbanded was 1 turn from finishing a mine under the Spear N of the city.

Oh yeah - and I'm not calling you chicken. :D

OK, I'll add a player to this team.

We need a good player. As good as TedJackson. :)

We need a good player. As good as TedJackson.

*Looks at himself up and down the mirror* :sad:

Such high standards already required for the new guy... :cry: But whatever. Hi guys, I've been looking around for sgs to join to get some sg experience, but was redirected to try filling up a spot on a SGOTM. M-B was gracious enough to fill me in, and you guys were equally gracious to chance on an unknown such as myself. I had vanilla civ for the longest time imaginable, but never amounted to much skill wise because I simply didn't like the game for the longest time. Well, maybe it was because I came from the Starcraft mold where I was so used to precision in build order, that I couldn't understand how to start my civ games. Then about a 2-3 months ago, I started to actually give the game some effort, using CFC as a resource to figure out a lot of gameplay.

So at the present, you're seeing before you an PTW emperor (maybe deity? non-variant emperor is TOO easy for me :mischief: ) level player who LOVES to go and hack the AI to death with extreme prejudice. Some indication of my actual skill level could be seen in a German 5CCC emperor game which I've been doing for the past two weeks that I posted in a thread for some advice and criticism. In case if your interested here's the thread.
German 5CCC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95095) (I'm up to 1922 in it, with me and Rome left... just waiting for the panzers...)

I'm gonna carefully examine the thread for the next hour or so, and I'll give you my thoughts of the current situation. I won't focus on the past sets and instead will try to find a way to slaughter all the AIs for the glory of Rome in the most efficient manner possible. Could somebody tell me if there is anything I need to d/l specifically for the SGOTM? BTW, I'm on 1.27f PTW. One last thing... please be kind to the sg noob :D

EDIT: Also, I'm an AW noob :rolleyes: The only AW game I played was a take on sirian's epic14 with the pillaging Greek hoplite, which I can win provided the rng god's are sufficiently honored.

ForTheEmpire, don't get intimated by my previous comment. I knew it was unlikely to be accomplished. :)

But from your description I think you can do fine with this game. I myself didn't have much AW experience either.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm still reading the thread, but I'm having trouble doing an analysis without a save to work with. Is there one available for me to look at? Btw, my schedule for availability is a definite no-can-do from Aug. 11-Aug. 14. Maybe Aug. 10 as well... In the meantime, I'm in Cal, so PST. Best available online during the day for chatting, for playing the game best at night, but lacks internet then (please don't ask...) :cry:

EDIT: Never mind, I found the save, analyzing now...

I hate to bring an old problem back up front, but there are two AMERICAN workers doing group mining with 2 native workers right next to Neapolis, which also has a Bab spear on the adjacent hill. I've checked gozpel's turnlog, and he said he whacked an American settler pair back in 450 bc and disbanded the workers in the last set. So either he forgot to do it, or these workers have been around for awhile from an even more previous set of turns. Btw, we can force that spear off the hill by sending over a spear from Ravenna to cover the workers for one turn. Ravenna won't be attacked during that one turn and we can bring the spear back to the town after the Bab spear moves somewhere else and finish it off with a horse (or two if RNG is most displeased with us) Image is at the end of post.

In the east, where we have a settler/horse/leg trio next to a Bab warrior/settler pair and a Greek archer/horse pair. The leg is fortified, obviously to protect against the Greeks, but I think the odds are much better to attack with the leg against the archer, which is showing and would be the defender. 1 def on forest is only 1.25 if you attack with our leg. 3 def on forest + fortified would be 4.5 if we defend vs. 2 attack twice. So 2.25 to 1 odds each time we score a blow on defense while 2.4 to 1 to land a hit on offense. I would attack and just get it over with.

The two legs in the east right next to Sparta, in my opinion, should wait for the third leg to back them up. 3 attacking legs are better than 2 and 2 extra turns for that group is fine.

There are 10 turns left of GA, right? If so, then I would MM Cumae and Ravenna to slow/stop their growth by placing their 1 food citizen to a forest, so both towns can have 5 turn legion. This will give 4 more legions at the end of the GA, at the cost of inhibited growth. I like more legions to do battle with since this is now essentially AWE.

EDIT: I didn't realize that both cities had 9 shields already invested in the current leg build. So in 5 turns we get 2 legs, then 5 turns with 25 shields invested, our GA will end leaving 5 to go. Two more turns would be needed to get the next 2 legs, so I was off... sorry... :(

I'm very encouraged by the power graph. Aside from that little negative dip from losing 3 legs, we are essentially on par with everyone!!! [party] And one more encouraging news, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, but we are stronger than ALL of the AIs on our continent!!! :beer: Now watch all my enthusiasm get thrown out the window once I start playing :rolleyes:

We are playing domination right? Then we not only need to focus on death and destruction, but we need to fill up our land as well. I know, it's tough to find a balance with settlers and soldiers, but this is the way I normally do fast doms. Have your core focused exclusively on military, as well as the FP core. Any outlying city should be building workers and settlers, and nothing else. Border towns of course should get walls and barracks if it's really a hot zone. Now, this can wait after our GA, so we don't waste production.

I'm almost tempted to just declare on Germany so we can just swallow up their VERY remoted outpost (there must be salt or oil there... groucho ) But that's just my emotions talking, and not my brain... Realistically, we need an army, BAD. Leaders are too much of a factor in this game, and that is probably the most decisive reason why team smackster is ahead of everyone. The army will be our pillager and battering ram, and the heroic epic is valuable here. We could either focus on normal military tactics and get leaders as we go, or we could set up a leader fishing kill zone. I vote for the first because the latter is difficult due to our border terrain.

Research wise, are we going to neglect libraries? No Pointy stick research and no trading partners means self research meaning libraries. We just need to squeeze them into our core cities and any city that makes enough cash to justify a library. BTW, when is Otto supposed to be declared on? If not within the next 20, he has lit for sale at 3gpt, 73 gold, and our very worthless wm worth 1 gold :lol: or construction for 16gpt, 73gold, and wm.

So summary of what I foresee for the next 50-60 turns: 1) Destroy the greeks, get that over with, and build settlers and workers fast to fill the open land once GA is expired ~15-20 turns since he does have a few more cities north of Sparta 2) Destroy the French, and head towards the west and the English. Liz and Joan have some key wonders that need to be razed, especially if either one gets Sun Tzu's ~ 10-20 turns till we can start a serious campaign against the French, and we may have knights (wishful thinking) by the time we strike at the English towns. Again we must be filling up the land, monarchy will help with this with it's cash rushing.

I forgot to disband an other couple of workers? Geez, I told you I was hungover. Unbelievable! Looks like we have to pillage that darn road again. I never even remebered it after disbanded the new captured workers and probably just played on. It's so deep in my roots to never disband workers.

What other teams are doing, keep that for yourself as we are not supposed to read their threads :) Welcome btw ForTheEmpire! Great summary of what we've done so far and what we should do. You'll do fine :)

Thanks gozpel, and yes, I'm trying my best to wipe my memory clean about the other teams progress :rolleyes: Anyhow, where is everybody? And who's up next? And when is this game due? I imagine soon, for it's already August :(

Barbslinger - up
ForTheEmpire - on deck
microbe
gozpel
scout

I put you after Barbslinger.

Phew, not up yet :D

Just got back into town. I'll be playing tonight in about 6 hours. If Empire can take it prior to then we can swap this round. If not I'll be playing around 10pm pst

I'm actually indisposed for the next 4 hours myself, so I don't think the 2 hour difference is all that big, certainly not big enough to change the roster. Besides, I want to see the famous Barbslinger in action before I play.

@Barb

How stupid and insensitive of me :wallbash: I didn't realize this at first but if you just got back into town, you also have a bunch of sgs to do catch up on as well, not to mention the recuperating time. If you want to, I could take the sgotm load off you tonight. Up to you of course.

Alright guys, me and Barb made a switch, so I'll be playing this current set from 350bc. I do have several questions before I start playing tonight, and I'll post online anything I have questions about.

1) When is Otto supposed to be declared on? I haven't found the specific date, but I'll check again.

2) I'm in favor of trashing our rep to get construction and/or literature from Otto with the gpt deals and then we declare on him to get ourselves into the MA and our gpt deals cut. Fortunately the AI hasn't sent a pike down yet but I would like to get some pikes for our sake. I want your guys input on this, but this is moot is Otto's DoW is not within the next 20 turns.

3) Those two american workers I pointed out, is it just the road they completed? Then I'll have to pillage it then.

4) We have one settler with the horse/leg pair in the east next to the bab settler/warrior and the greek archer/horse. Where is he supposed to go, or is he at my disposal?

Well, the following is what I'm planning on doing this set. Please voice your opinions LOUDLY so the thick-headed one will listen :lol:

1) Get more legs and horse, destroy Sparta, and be in a position to strike at the next city(ies). Markets will have to wait after GA.

2) Try to squeeze one worker from a less productive town. I hate pulling citizens out during a GA but 3 workers for 9 cities (or 8, not sure) even in AW is too little.

3) Try to set up the next leader so that they will have more soldiers to command during their set, and minimize my own losses.

4) Get us into MA via Otto's deals. Again, please tell me the DoW and your thoughts on trashing our rep.

I'll play around 9:30 PST (-8:00 GMT) so please please I hope you guys are reading this and respond. If not, my sword is ready and ready to kill many units, or I will fall ungloriously in my sg debut :p

MAJOR EDIT: I find that Russia declared on us on gozpel's last turn. So does that mean Otto's DoW is 20 turns from that point? That means we can make one final and clean deal with him.

These are the questions I actually don't know. There are two different understandings. Assume the AI order is A B C, we declare on A in turn X, so we are supposed to declare on B in turn X+20, on C in turn X+40. Now B declares on us (or vice versa) in turn X+10, some people think we should declare on C in X+30, some think X+40.

Maybe you can ask Mad-bax in private or in the maintenance thread. However, since the rule doesn't say this explicitly, I think either way should be fine.

By the way, everybody please use bold font for the events related to AI contact and war declaration with the year. It would make everybody's life easier to track this information.

EDIT: I asked in the maintenance thread, but I suggest you play on according to your own understanding.

EDIT2: someone answered in the thread:


Microbe - We had to ask this question as well.

This is the answer we were given:

If B declares early (turnY), declare on C on turn Y + 20.
If C declares early, then ignore them in the list and declare on B on turn X+20, and civ D on turn X+40.

HTH

Alright, I saw sesnofwthr's response as well. In that case, I'll follow that line of logic, and I actually solved our mystery! :D We were SUPPOSED to have DoW on Otto on goz's 7th turn. I hope MB forgives us :rolleyes: So the first thing I'll do is declare on Otto.

I still haven't gotten the one question of mine I need answered, to trash or not to trash our rep for those techs?

BIG DELETION: What I wrote at 11:30 pm made no sense whatsoever. This pic is a teaser.

Nice. I guess it's an army then? Great Library has been built already, and so was Pyramids I guess. I think there isn't any good wonders to rush.

BTW I think we should push toward England. They have the Great Library.

With his sword at the ready, a new Caesar has arisen. "FTE, FTE, FTE,"
shout the hordes of the masses as he arives in chariot towards Palace. He
takes a deep breath for he knows that this age is full of barbarian hordes who shun the beauty that which is Rome. May the Gods watch over his first years of his reign. :king:

Preturn:
4/4 leg KILLS 4/4 greek archer, promote 5/5.
Move lone spear from Ravenna to the worker stack as the Bab spear is going for them it seems. The whole declaration of war is driving me nuts!!! It is supposed 20 turns after our last declaration, but MB never mentioned how to deal with a premature declaration by the AI. So maintenance thread help
says if an AI declares on us before it's supposed DoW, the next DoW down the contact list goes 20 turns from that point. So I talk to Otto, decide heavily on a phony deal... The new Caesar, though a bloodlusting animal, has some semblance of honor. I declared at 350BC. And now, no one is safe from the terrible might of Rome...

IT:
Troop movement, most important being a hoplite/settler from Sparta popped out and is heading south on their roads. Also that Bab spear is now heading towards undefended Ravenna as well the rest of the hit parade.
Pompeii: Warrior --> Worker
Hispalis: Worker --> Armamentarium
Babs start Hanging Gardens

Turn 1 330BC:
We have 15 legs, if we can somehow just get them to gather in one location and then strike, we can do some serious damage. Unfortunately, our forces our spread out for MP duty and border patrol. I disband those two American workers. The new worker from Hispalis will mine a grassland. 3 turns of 2 shields (rest of GA) is better than none. Moved back the spear to Ravenna, sent horse from Rome to defend the two workers. Forted some legs, moved some into town for healing.

5/5 leg FORCES RETREAT 4/4 Greak horse cleanly.

Moved out two 4/4 legs out of Veil to go help with the Greek front. That's six legions in that region now, two more and may be enough to take out all the northern Greek towns.

IT:
French send a sword at us from the north. 1 English spear on pillaging mission.

Turn 2 310BC:
Hmm? The GA is about to end next turn, FTE Caesar is most displeased... Virconium founded 2NE, 1E of Veil --> Armamentarium.
5/5 leg is there forted to defend.

4/4 Horse RETREATS 3/3 French spear, spear 3/3.
4/4 Horse KILLS 3/3 Bab warrior, redlined, promoted 2/5. Workers executed.

Moved 4/4 leg from Veil towards our vinum to prevent pillaging. Boost our lux to 20 to prevent possible rioting next turn from Rome at the cost of 5 nongained gold. 4/4 Horse from antium to adjacent hill to move that same Bab spear to low ground.

IT:
1/4 horse DIES 3/3 French spear, 3/4
French start Hanging Gardens.
Rome horse --> leg

Turn 3 290BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 2/4.
5/5 horse KILLS 2/4 Bab spear, 4/5.
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek hoplite, promotes 2/5
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Greek hoplite, 1/3
5/5 leg KILLS 1/3 Greek hoplite, 3/5, Sparta is razed.

The kills:losses ratio 5:3, not good, not good at all! I take a worker off Rome and he's now a scientist. 1spt loss does not change turns needed for leg, which sets our science to minimum and gaining some more gpt. We apparently have 4 Greek towns to our south and south east. At least 3 Greek towns in the fog to our north east. I'm reconsidering that push now since the AIs are starting to send their troops in greater numbers. Casear is also seriously considering the advent of catapults, but dismisses the ordering of their making.

IT:
Troop movement now shifts east. 3 French swords come from the north out of the fog, as well as a French spear/settler pair.

Turn 4 270BC:
5/5 leg KILLS 4/4 English Horse, 1/5

MMed Veil to get more shields this turn. Moved some core troops towards Cumae, but Ravenna appears to be the target since it only has 1 spear. The spear from Neapolis goes to Ravenna, leaving 1 horse to guard Neapolis. I hope to draw that Bab bowmen into open ground for next turn. Move lux up to 20% to prevent Veil and Antium from rioting next turn.

IT:
4/4 Spear KILLS 3/3 Russian Warrior, 3/4 healing.
Ravenna is definitely the target for the AI.

Turn 5 250BC:
4/4 leg FORCES RETREAT 4/4 Greek horse, 4/4.
4/5 leg KILLS 4/4 Greek archer, 4/5.
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 English spear, 2/4.
4/4 horse DIES 2/3 English horse, 1/3.
5/5 leg KILLS 1/3 English horse, 5/5 but is now exposed to mini French SoD (3 reg swords, 1 reg archer). At least the leg is on mountain and there is a river separating himself from the French. These mountains will be great for us for travel once we start heading towards the French. The legs will be 6 def in the high ground.

Adjust to 30% lux to prevent Veil from rioting. Caesar says those citizens will rue the day that they oppose his rule...

IT:
4/4 Spear KILLS 3/3 French Archer, 1/4 healing.
More bowmen marching east from Uruk. An English galley approaches Hispalis in the south.

Turn 6 230BC:
Move Rome's leg to guard vinum. Sent Rome horse to the south to deal with galley landing party.
4/4 Alf leg KILLS 2/3 Greek horse, promotes 3/5.
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Russian warrior, 3/5, disband the two workers.
5/5 leg KILLS French 3/3 archer, 4/5... and... :D

So there indeed is a man, full of valour, that is willing to rise above his peers in battle to lead the Roman armies.
Trajan has arisen!

Switched a tile between Ravenna and Neapolis to get a leg finished next turn instead of 2 turns later. Trajan heads to Neapolis to form that army next turn. Total defense of Ravenna consists of one 5/5 leg, one 5/5 horse, two 4/4 spears, and one 4/4 horse. I just realized that the town doesn't have walls. That's next after this leg build. Moving two 4/4 legs and one 5/5 horse towards the new Greek town of Herakleia, can be attacked in 2 turns. French swords 2 tiles away. MMed Veil so that I can take one citizen off and be a taxman and still have leg due next turn in order to lower lux rate to 20%. I see it's not on a river, so it will stay no growth on pop 6. Changed Pisae to worker instead of a warrior. Also MMed Rome by taking a citizen off of the irrigated game tile, so Antium can use it to grow. Rome beyond size 7 would be painful due to lux tax.

IT:
5/5 leg KILLS 4/4 Russian archer cleanly
English galley lands one 4/4 horse next to Hispalis.
Greek galley came out of the fog to land one 4/4 Greek archer.
Pisae worker --> worker (we need a lot more than 5)
Veil leg --> leg
Antium horse --> leg

Turn 7 210BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 3/3 BAH!!! :mad:
5/5 horse KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, 1/5
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, clean 5/5
4/4 horse KILLS 4/4 English horse, 1/4 but will die due to that Greek archer. Moved new horse from Antium next to Hispalis to help retake it if necessary.

3/5 Team Microbe's Saviour!!! leg heads to Neapolis to our army. The Battle of Ravenna will commence next IT. Four French 3/3 swords and 1 3/3 archer, 1 Bab 3/3 Bowmen, 1 Russian 3/3 Archer may all attack and if they all win, Ravenna will be taken. I have for defense two legs (5/5 and 4/4), two spears (both 4/4) and three horses (two 4/4 and one 1/5).

IT:
Hehe, this is more like it
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, 4/5
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, promotes, 4/5
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French sword, 3/5
4/5 leg KILLS 3/3 French archer, 4/5
1/4 horse KILLS 3/3 Greek archer Wasn't such an easy kill huh? :lol:
Veil riots :eek: I thought I had that one MMed right...

Turn 8 190BC:
Ceasar is most pleased by the victories his soldiers are accumulating at Ravenna. He is however losing his patience with the general populace... Veil MMed so I can get one turn of minimum science in. The Battle of Ravenna continues next IT. The Greek town of Herakleia will be attacked next turn by two 4/4 legs and one 4/4 horse. After healing, four legs in the east are ready to move against the Greek city of Delphi.

IT:
America wants peace? Caesar defines peace as a world where the only language spoken is latin, and the only people that walk the land are Roman by descent. He dismisses Abe.
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Bab bowmen, 4/5
Spears moving to our workers.
Rome leg --> leg

Turn 9 170BC:
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Bab spear, :mad:
4/4 leg KILLS 2/4 Bab spear cleanly, 4/4
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek Archer cleanly, 5/5
4/4 leg KILLS 3/3 Greek hoplite, 2/4
4/4 leg DIES 3/3 Greek hoplite, 1/3 :rolleyes:
5/5 horse KILLS 1/3 Greek hoplite, 4/5 and Herakleia is razed.

Relocate 5/5 Alf and 4/4 legs to deal with two 3/3 Archers near Virconium. Legion Army will be fully loaded and ready, but not fully healed next turn. Caesar's successor will have a fully healed army at his disposal.

IT:
The Germanic Tribes of the North wish an audience with us. He demands that WE pay for peace, 180 gold! :twitch: Uh...Good bye!
Two english 4/4 swords appear in the north west.

Turn 10 150BC:
5/5 leg KILLS 3/3 Russian warrior, 4/5 and disposes of the two workers.
4/4 horse DIES 3/3 Bab spear, 2/3 :cry: These Bab spears are doing all the hurting on our forces!
4/4 leg KILLS 2/3 Bab spear cleanly, 4/4 (That's the last one!!!)

Trajan has rallied the legions under his command and his army is ready for battle! But first, a little R&R for healing groucho . He is at the ready for the next Caesar, in Neapolis. Monarchy due in 17 set at 8.0.2 with +25gpt. Treasury is 339.

Summary: 29:8. That's my kills:deaths ratio for the past ten turns. Without any form of bombardment, I think this ratio is borderline acceptable. I made some risky attacks, for example, most leg deaths came because I was trying to defend Rome itself, iron, and wines from pillging. I think I lost 3, 4 units total just from that. I'm surprised that I haven't lost a unit on defense yet. I played Rome quite a bit before, but in purely offensive contests. This is the first time I'm using Rome's legions in a defensive war. I'm impressed so far. More power to the legion! In all, I added 3 more workers, 1 more legion, and 1 army (which has 3 more legions, so I actually am +4 legions compared to turn 1). I think my estimation on the fall of the Greeks is a little short. I think in 15 turns the northern cities can fall I didn't realize Greece had a few more cities up there and to the south as well. Also, keep those units in the East there. The other AIs are sending in 3/3 warrior/settler pairs and make great leader fishing opportunities for the three elites we have in that region.

I was hoping to start moving some legions towards France this set, but instead it turned into a leader fishing event. I tried to choose the battles I felt were tactically sound and where the probabilities were in my favor, but obviously that didn't always happen. Ravenna is the hotzone I think due to not having walls. It's due in next turn, so the AI may choose to redirect its attacks elsewhere. Also, due to exposed workers, the AI will still keep sending in those spears every now and then.

I really wanted to get a settler out, but I couldn't find a city that could make one due to the sudden influx of AI units. I hope the next leader will get out one or two to cover my ineptness in that deparment.

Also, the southern town of Hispalis is the current target of AI galley landings. As long as a roaming horse or two is around then I think that area will be fine.

Consider deficit research to get monarchy in faster. Our tech situation is abysmal but certainly not hopeless. I really wanted to trash the rep but it seems like an exploit to make a gpt deal for for techs, then canceling it with war. At least no MedI yet so things are good. No German forces yet as well. Otto may be at war with someone up north, but then again, he is very far away.

Next settler that comes out should go east to the incense hill 2E, 1NE of Virconium or 1SW of the ruins. Our residential malcontents need to get high on some incense to reduce the lux to 10%.

Sorry about the rioting in Veil. I thought I had the happys/unhappys balanced, but I guess not. BTW, another reason I want to play sgs is to have my MM critiqued. I feel this is my weakpoint still, and needs more work. I focused the MMing to get units out faster. I didn't see an opportunity to build any markets or temples or any improvements of any sort. Save is posted here 150BC SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/microbe_SG003_BC0150_02.SAV)

Okay, I had to figure this out properly, so I carefully read through the maintenance thread after DJMGator posted what actually is the proper way to handle out of order DoWs. He referenced Civ_Steve's examples and MB response. To sum it up all up. The original 20 turns of DoWs still maintains. So... in our case...

Russia, Babs, Germany, in that order must be declared on.

Russia + 20 from X. Babs + 40 from X. Germany + 60 from X. The X turn/date is confusing but whatever. Babs did go preemptive way before Russia DoW. Still, we maintain the turns. At the point, Russia still + 20 from X, Germany + 60 from X. We were doing it, or at least I was, from 20 from the last DoW made.

To sum it up, I didn't have to declare on Otto, and I could have gotten techs in honorable gpt deals. Sigh... :cry: I really hate these rules, but what's done is done. I hope you guys don't flame me too much for my preemptive declaration :worship:

Barbslinger - up
ForTheEmpire - just played
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

Got it. Will have a look at the save later and possibly post tonight.

SGOTM3_mic-150bc

Preturn – First order of business after checking everything is getting a leader with that E horse in Ravenna. Slingers Foray is born. Viroconium does not look promising with the 2 archers looking down at us but goes to walls if we survive it. How did those archers sneak by the legion standing next to them? From the south? Pisae goes to a spear to use the rax it has and the Hispalis rax swaps to pult to let it grow a little prior to building workers. Lux goes up a notch to let Veii do it’s legion in 4 and then we put sci-sli at 10% for monarchy in 17. This game is now AW. Walls in every town guys.
IT – Ravenna-Walls>Legion, Hispalis-Pult>Worker and growth in 5. We lose Slingers Foray to a spear.
[1] 130BC – Build the army in Rome and load with a legion there. Get another leader from the 2 archers that never fired at Viro. That’s 3 armies and we can build the pentagon to load 4ths. Fortify a legion in Cumae to have 4 units vs 5 coming at us. They are only 3-4% win chances though. I’m hoping they do attack.
IT – They attack with 3 bowmen and we lose 3 total HP. They others move to our core to meet our armies forming up. Rome-Leg>Leg, Neapolis-Walls>Leg, Viro-Walls>Worker on growth at 10. An archer lands near Hispalis.
[2] 110BC – The archer landing wouldn’t be so bad if I hadn’t of moved a worker to irrigate the cow. Just realized we only have 10 cities so no 3rd army. Rome gets a rushed market. Kill a couple more units and prep for swords coming towards Neapolis. Lose a legion that was a 7% favorite at Greek Delphi. Kill the archer near Hispalis with the horse losing a HP and then recover the worker.
IT – Get the HE message. Rome-Market>Legion. Antium-Legion>Legion. Lose a spear guarding a 1hp legion that killed a bowman on a hill last turn.
[3] 90bc – A few kills later another leader come forth. He can rush the HE. Killed a Russian settler pair for 2 needed slaves. Lost a horse on a sword attack.
IT – Veii-Leg>HE. The FP is needed too and I’m hoping for another leader really soon.
[4] 70bc – No luck this round lose a legion to a hoplite trying for a pillage and then no leaders. Only one enemy unit that can attack but it is only a bowman at 3% odds. 3 legs and a horse moving on Delphi when they heal.
IT – HE is in, set to Settler to try to get the 12th town.
[5] 50bc – Kill 1 archer to go elite and heal the rest. Take a sht with ALF after seeing he was a 90% fav against unfortified archer in the mountains and he loses miserably.
IT – Get attacked by a Greek sword. Damn I thought they had no iron. We win though. Rome builds a legion.
[6] 30BC – Adjusting troop positions for next wave coming. 3 swords, the same bow, archer and another hoplite trying to pillage. Our one army is off to pillage.
IT – Here they come! There are also a lot of settler pairs heading to the south. Neapolis-Leg>Leg.
[7] 10bc – Another leader! What to do? What to do? Hold off on killing some of the other units because we are favored on defense. Changed my mind on the Delphi attack in 3 and kill the settler pair after losing a horse. I haven’t had a retreat this whole turnset.
IT – A few builds including a settler. We get another settler in 2 so I think I’ll wait with the leader.
[8] 10AD – Collect 2 more sets of slaves. Positioning to get the next group of towns down. Going for the spices in our west.
[9] 30ad – SunTzu’s is being built. Collect a couple more slaves.
[10] 50ad – 2 more slaves.
3 horses vs. our two legions in Neapolis is OK they have less than 1% chance of winning. They will probably head for the slaves or Rome. The archer N of Veii has been there a while waiting on backup. He’s no threat. We may lose a spear in Ravenna but there is one building on the IT. There is asettler heading SW of Antium to get the spices. Get them on line prior to revolting to monarchy. The other settler is heading S to settle on the hill next to the Greek border with the 3 bg’s. Road to there and send some legions to take that town out down the line. Once settled make the army or if brighter people determine to go for FP that is fine too. I don’t see any place really worthy as yet and the 3rd army is important to get the pentagon that the next leader can rush. There is a picket line of slaves coming through the eastern mountains.

Our score is falling apart. The pillaging army should get busy on France and England, IMO, and grease the skids for getting after them. We are going to start seeing MI's soon and cats will help a lot. Hopefully those 2 new towns will get down and help the score. We need a lot more units.

Well, the leader floodgates have opened, that's certainly encouraging. I wish it would have occurred back in the early days so we could have free Pyramids, GL, Oracle, etc... :gripe: I agree with getting a third army, and rushing a Pentagon with next leader. The FP should be maximized to have its own set of 1st and 2nd rings. I'm thinking somewhere in the French lands would be a good FP city.

How did those archers sneak by the legion standing next to them? From the south?

The two archers appeared from the West. The two legions were actually a bit NE of where they were originally, and were coming back to deal with those archers.

Let's not worry about scores. This is a hard game, and to many of us the first AWE level game. I'd be satisfied if we just win. Let's just enjoy the game itself.

We would get much better score if we got a leader early and rushed Pyramids. So it does somehow depend on luck.

Barbslinger - just played
ForTheEmpire
microbe - up
gozpel - on deck
scout

I'll play this tonight.

Let's not worry about scores. This is a hard game, and to many of us the first AWE level game. I'd be satisfied if we just win. Let's just enjoy the game itself.

We are of the same mind. I'll take great satisfaction with us finishing this game with a win. If we forget about the scores and play with the mindset of just beating the AIs down, we'll be fine.

I know we don't care about score, but we do need to keep settling. If we can get into a nice Raze and Replace cycle, the score will come up. IIRC, Rome has a granary, so it's population should recover quickly after pumping a settler. Once developed, "cow town" should be able to provide the occasional settler, even without a granary. We also need lots of workers...

@Barbslinger: please tell me you executed those Russian workers you popped on turn 3...

I agree. We definitely need a settler city.

I'd expect barbslinger/gozpel to be more active in giving suggestions as they have AW experience (I suppose). We really need them. :)

I agree. We definitely need a settler city.Well... I don't think we could protect the output of a 4-turn settler pump at this juncture... but if we can get some workers out to improve our outlying towns...we might make them productive enough so that we wouldn't be quite so dependent on using Rome's military production.

Consider this: alternate units and workers in Rome until we have about 8 more workers... then maybe we can alternate units and settlers out of Rome for a while once our first tier cities have some improved terrain to work. Every time any town hits size 6, pump a worker.

We got a lot of foreign workers not disbanded... I count 8 total. 6 of which have spent their movement points and are doign nothing, aside from what looks like heading back to our lands. I see 2 american workers 1N of Rome, roading. All 8 need to be disbanded next turn.

EDIT: Virconium has 2 more foreign workers, and a couple more south.

Jeez, now I'm doing it! Why didn't I just go to raze Delphi. I got all excited seeing all that fresh settler meat I plumb forgot. Well, fortunately most of them are in transit and can be killed off. The 2 americans helped to complete the road to the far eastern town and then were heading to the core.

Why didn't I just go to raze Delphi.That's a question that has me a little befuddled as well... since sacking cities is one of your stronger suits. :p

Just the thought popped into me now, but we haven't started seeing any longbowmen, MedIs, nor pikemen yet have we? I would expect those to come about in your turns scout, because the AIs have been in the MA for quite awhile now.

EDIT: Oops, microbe is up next, not scout, hehe...

I agree. We definitely need a settler city.

I'd expect barbslinger/gozpel to be more active in giving suggestions as they have AW experience (I suppose). We really need them. :)

I'm sure I mentioned the cow when I did my dotmap, if we had built that town early it would've been up and running by now. I said I wanted more towns and that I wanted to go on the offensive earlier. What else do you want me to say? :confused:

And I never played a pure AW game before, where did you get that from? I only played a few deity games that ended up being close to it.

But as I understand it, AW is to get those walls up, chuck in a few catapults and continue build units, which include settler and workers :)

I really hate this worker dilemma. To disband a worker is like chopping off an arm in my book and the variant could've been without it. But then it wouldn't be Xenophobic I guess. It looks like we have 10 enemy workers now and they all has to be disbanded. :cry:

Just the thought popped into me now, but we haven't started seeing any longbowmen, MedIs, nor pikemen yet have we? I would expect those to come about in your turns scout, because the AIs have been in the MA for quite awhile now.I'm not really all that worried about it. Gimme a few horses to skirmish with... a few Catapults to soften the pikes, and I'll be happy.

I think we could probably do some serious damage with stacks of Cats and Legions. Are we building some Cats?

And for some reason I'm a little foggy on one point... the archer/longbow defensive free shot, is that in PTW? Or was that first implemented in C3C?

And for some reason I'm a little foggy on one point... the archer/longbow defensive free shot, is that in PTW? Or was that first implemented in C3C?

That freeshot is only a C3C invention, so hack away at those silly 1 def units without fear :p

I'm sure I mentioned the cow when I did my dotmap, if we had built that town early it would've been up and running by now. I said I wanted more towns and that I wanted to go on the offensive earlier. What else do you want me to say? :confused:


Saying it very loud would guarantee that we are listening. :)

That's a question that has me a little befuddled as well... since sacking cities is one of your stronger suits. :p I had 3 elite legions and an E horse ready to move and then all these settler pairs came scampering by. In retrospect, I really don't know what is more important. They would have settled the entire area in the south and now they are still building settlers to replace the ones I killed. The legions are still there ready to go.
As to AW experience our group only did one Pangea at Monarch, Nehru. As scout mentions, horses and catapults are key. Armies in the field to pillage everyone to the stone age, especially the 1st target. Get rid of French and English Iron and we are well on our way. If we can fight 2 fronts and move our ass-end into Greek lands we should be OK. Once we get to Feudal we should be fine. Dedicate a catapult town because we will need around 20 of them. I built 1 and have another in build. Hopefully the leaders will keep popping and we can get a spear army (cheaper) dedicated to pillaging only. He can go and visit the greeks and knock off their iron and then we can move in. The legion army I have headed to France/ English area. Hit the capitals first to disrupt the trade network. Loss of lux kills them too.

Saying it very loud would guarantee that we are listening. :)

I made a mental note to remember that!

:D:

:rotfl: :lol:

Okay - that's two points for Gozpel. (In all fairness... you walked right into that one Microbe.) :D

Nice gozpel, very nice. :lol:

I'm playing now. We can rush FP, but do we want to do it now? There doesn't seem to be a very good spot for it yet.

Another problem: my army can't pillage! The button doesn't show up. What's wrong?

Another problem: my army can't pillage! The button doesn't show up. What's wrong?I have no freakin' idea... but horses can pillage...and retreat...or pillage in front of an advancing army....

preturn: not much change. Switch a spear to cat.

Stop two English workers. We have totally 6 foreigh workers. 4 of them aren't working. Will disband next turn.

IBT Rome horse->cat.

(1)70AD:
@Rome: there are 3 reg horses next to it.
Army 0/3 kills reg horse.
Vet horse 3/3 kills reg horse.
vet horse 0/2 kills injured horse.
[3-0]

Vet leg 2/3 kills reg spear and disbands two workers.

IBT two French swords die to our spears at Ravenna. [5-0]

(2)90AD: We found a town on the lux. Lux can be dropped to 20, income jumps to 27gpt from 18gpt.

@Rome: elite horse 4/3 kills a spear next to our workers. There is another archer, and we could hardly cover the workers, but then I find out they are not native, so I disband them instead. It could be a good thing as we don't need to cover them anymore. :lol:

horse captures a Greek worker and disbands it.

Vet leg 3/2 kills an injured archer. [7-0]

Babylon founded a city on the incense. I debate with myself whether to autoraze it or let it grow, and decide to attack.

Elite leg 3/3 kills reg spear. [8-0]

IBT no attack.

(3)110AD: I'm confused. Why I cannot pillage the silks in French territory? So I attack instead. Leg army 1/3 kills reg spear in Chartres.

@Cumae: vet leg 0/3 kills sword. [10-0]
@Argos: elite horse 3/3 kills hoplite. [11-0]

(4)130AD:

@Chartres: army 4/3 kills reg spear and promotes.
@Rome: vet leg 3/2 kills spear.

IBT sword dies to our spear. [14-0] Greece and some other guy starts Sun Tzu's.

(5)150AD:
Army 2/3 kills spear and we raze Chartres. [15-0]

Things get tense at Rome. 3 reg sword will attack next turn.
Army 2/3 kills sword.
vet leg 2/3 kills sword.
vet horse 3/0 retreats.
[17-0]

BTW we can build another army and I do so.

IBT two swords die on our leg and promote it. [19-0]

(6)170AD:

Vet horse 2/2 kills injured sword. [20-0]

IBT Two archers die to our spear. [22-0] We know Monarchy and I revolt immediately. Some towns riot but OK. We draw a 4-turn anarchy.

(7)190AD:

@Rome: vet horse 1/2 kills injured archer and promotes. Elite horse 0/2 kills another injured archer. [24-0]

I see a French longbow!

Elite legion dies to a reg archer!
Elite archer finishes it off.
[25-1]

IBT two swords die on our elite leg. Longbow kills our spear and promotes. [26-2]

(8)210AD:
vet horse 0/2 kills bowman.
elite horse 0/2 kills bowman.

[28-2]

(9)230AD:
vet leg 3/3 kills bowman.
vet horse 2/2 kills bowman.

IBT archer dies to leg. [31-2]

(10)250AD:

vet leg 2/2 kills bowman.

40g to upgrade a reg warrior as we are short of unit at Veii. 40g to upgrade another vet warrior.

vet leg 0/3 kills hoplite at Argos and promotes, but another one shows up.

Elite horse kills redlined horse.
Army kills horse on the hill and promotes.
Elite horse kills 2hp longbow and we get a leader:

Final kill ratio: [36-3]

We have one turn left for anarchy. Leader is in Antium. I suggest we rush Pentagon in Cumae to get expanded border. Or FP in Veii?

The pillaging army is still healing. I don't know why I couldn't use it to pillage. It should pillage England to let us capture London in the future.

Longbowmen starts showing up, but all in all it's OK.

An empty army is in Rome. I didn't get a chance to fill units yet.

Barbslinger - just played
ForTheEmpire
microbe
gozpel - up
scout - on deck

We need more cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3-50AD.jpg

Good job microbe, or should I say excellent. No, I say just good because you didn't catch my joke. ;)

No really, we're fine and losing points every turn. I'm not happy to just win this particular game, I wanted to win the contest. But ah well, what's my point worth! :(

Nevermind, we still have to win this to even get on the scoreboard (yeah, I know, we get there as last too) but we can at least do some progress.

We lost lots of stuff not settling the cow quickly enough, we lost alot by not taking chances. This is not a competition where we sit on our behinds and wait for the final signal. We didn't move quick enough.

Fine!

Offensive is the tactics and that's what I'm going to try. Again.

What do we have and how can we muster a force?

Did anyone pay attention to my idea of an empty town someplace? Erh, (scraping foot) not really...erhm!?

I'm kidding you mongrels, kind of.

Let's try to do the best out of this mess, I especially like the blue-banded mountains. They should've been sent to Pompeii if anyone read my turnlog.

You won't get a turnlog next time (with ideas in normal fonts) I'll make you guess.

Crap, I'm pissed and very annoyed.

But I got it.

Don't forget my anger, but I have to state that all players did a GREAT job last turns.

I just feel insulted to be foregone again by players that can't read in normal fonts and other circumstances. I had the solution from the beginning and noone listened. That's why, I always read every thread and every line to understand. English is my second language and I make mistakes as well.

@Gozpel: I like your idea of an empty town... but I'm not sure I see a way to make that work just yet. We've got AI units "in our face" all over the place.

We're surrounded, which means we can attack in any direction!

Seriously, you guys are going to think I've flipped, but I think if we get focused we can claw our way back into contention in this game.

I think a drive on Paris is in order. I'd like to see us sack that one. Those German units in the mountains have me a little nervous. I'm not sure yet how to contend with that...but I'd love to gain control of those mountains at some point.

I'll re-read Microbe's log later on and offer comments if I see anything potentially useful.

I'm just 'thinking out loud' here... but have a look at this and tell me what you guys think.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_empty.jpg

I think our biggest mistake wasn't the cow but we didn't do enough leader fishing and lost Great Library. I think our only chance of winning is again to capture the Great Library. We'll not be able to hold considering longbow has shown up (but not pike or MDI?). So we need to advance toward England.

During my turns I couldn't do much (razed one size-5 French city). But we'll get into Monarchy in 1 turn.

Gozpel, I understand your anger. I think we kinda lacked a team strategy, and people got distracted by the rules instead.

Edit: Apprently, I can't do simple division either. 36:2 or 18:1... sheesh...
@ALL
I apoligize if I missed anything you guys wanted to get accomplished that I could have done in my turns.

@microbe
Nice kill ratio! 36:3, or 12:1, hell, that's great even for combat involving a lot of bombard units. I don't really understand why that western army wouldn't pillage, I'll download the save and experience the horror myself :eek:

@scout
Agreement with the western region. I was thinking about getting possibly two towns on the high ground southwest of Veil so that we can force the battles to be occurring on the low ground and not on the hills. My only apprehension about putting a new city on Uruk's ruins (well sooner or later it will be in ruins) are those adjacent mountains. Our units would have problems counterattacking the enemy lodged there, and we can only use that town to be a sponge to soak up enemy attacks and divert some attention away from our core, and also to function as our jump point to the west. But if these were your thoughts, then cool :goodjob:

I would somehow like to get the incense in the east in the near future. This would not only accomplish getting our lux tax down even more (potentially at least) it would also be an outpost in the east so we can easily move units in and out to finish off the Greeks faster. However, this is probably low priority due to the constant influx of troops from the north.

[QUOTE=microbe]I think our only chance of winning is again to capture the Great Library.[QUOTE]

Eh... are we still playing variant? If so,then we gotta raze the english city that has the GL :cry: :cry: :cry:

Crap!

Whenever I think of any way of winning, there is always something in the rule that vetos it! :mad:

This is absolutely more difficult than AWE. We should be proud of ourselves if we could survive into Industrial Ages. I wouldn't be too negative and harsh on ourselves. :)

We need more junk cities to hire some specialists to do research..

@All
You know, that one leader we have sitting around, you may not like this idea, but I would like to use it for rushing Hanging Gardens instead of the Pentagon. Reasons for this being: 1) Pentagon DOES NOT give the A/D/M bonuses in PTW, that's just a C3C invention; 2) HG would act as another lux, and does not expire till the IA, which is quite awhile for us; 3) denial to the AI which already have more wonders than they need. I'm still surprised the HG haven't been built yet, so it would be a coup after all we've experienced to get this from the AI. Pentagon would just make our armies even beefier meat shields, but costing one more legion for each army. What do you guys think?

Again, if anyone hasn't seen this yet, but I'm in horror as well with this...

WHERE IS OUR BLOODY PILLAGE COMMAND?!?!?!??!?!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Where_is_our_pillage_command.JPG

I moved him 1W from the save, hit next turn, so I can show anyone out there, (Mad-Bax, hint hint), that our army has not moved and is on a tile that has improvments to be pillaged.

:lol: Now I know I did see what I saw.

Hanging Gardens is definitely better, but I thought it was already built? If not, I agree on rushing it.

No the HG hasn't been built yet, again to my surprise. It was out there since my turns. I also fooled around with the current save for a few turns to test the other armies out (don't worry, no spoilers). ALL OF OUR ARMIES DO NOT HAVE THE PILLAGE COMMAND... :eek: :eek: :eek: Well, we have to adjust, no biggie, but this is one handicap that was certainly not expected. I sent M-B a pm to check our pic out and offer some words of wisdom.

EDIT: Maybe the pillaging command was disabled for SGOTM03? I can understand why, since armies are essentially immune to AI attacks in the open.

EDIT #2: Yes, all our other units aside from armies can pillage, so it's army only.

This is not mentioned in the game annoucement. I'm sure other teams already found it out, but let's not discuss it in the open thread. :)

This is not mentioned in the game annoucement. I'm sure other teams already found it out, but let's not discuss it in the open thread. :)

:mischief:

...and stick a pony under the army. The Horse can move and pillage, the Army can cover the horse.... we should be able to tear some stuff up that way, if that's a goal.

That's an excellent idea Scout.

Send a horse (or two) to the army!

See? I can do that as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm glad I'm not hung over...or my head would be hurtin' with all this shouting going on. No need for :coffee: to wake up in
thisthread.

This game is getting tougher and tougher. No pillaging with the armies?! Well, I do like the stick a couple horses underneath. We can pillage two tiles at a time. I like the idea of a bait city. If we can find a spot where the AI can only attack across river onto a city on a hill while we have all hill mountains posted with spears to keep them off the high ground, that would be nice. Neapolis almost looks like one. Need to look at it though.
Then we could take kill shots as they approach from Cumae, Ravenna and all surrounding hills/mountains.

Ravenna is such a city. I've had at least 6 AI units die on our legs.

Haha microbe :lol:

Ok, I'm kind of sober now and less angry, only to read about the non-pillaging armies. That makes me depressed instead. At least the crossfire between the wife and the daughter has subsided and I will play this later today.

I will need to take a long look to see where we are and try to divert the enemies.

All points taken and I will check in here again before I start up the game (in a few hrs)

The throng of Roman citizens, expecting the return of their wise and glorious leader, gozpel :king: , have been chanting in the streets all morning these words, "Hanging Gardens, Hanging Gardens, Hanging Gardens!"


:D I'm sorry guys, I couldn't have let the fun die without me getting in on it :D

OK stop it. You sound like you are going to hang gozpel in the garden. :)

It's all my fault, really, for hinting gozpel to use big font.

:lol:

You're all idiots!

Ok, recap. I will build HG and find a good spot for Empty Town. I haven't opened the save yet, so I can't predict my offensive moves. But with armies (how many do we have?) we can wreak enough havoc to get one or two civs on the backfoot.

Science is another thing. I'm trying to squeeze my brain to find useful info on how to deal with that. The other civs are buddies and will help each other through the next age and we have no means of making them fight each other. Why would they, when they have a sitting duck?

We might have to consider max research soon to get into next age, Monarchy won't help us too much, but HG will do it's bit for a while at least. We need lots of everything, especially markets, but can we afford to build them now?

Our position is poor to say the least, but I don't give up easily and will try to find a way to give us the upper hand. So any late ideas how to achieve anything, except what we already talked about?

And ForTheEmpire: You came in late in the game and did a good job. Don't worry about my frets, it's just me :) Your logic is certainly welcome here, since most of these mongrels can't read normal fonts :lol:

Basically, we're here to have fun and if we bash each other it's the name of the game. We like each other, kinda. :)

With this game playing as an AW I think it is really important to pillage iron so we are facing arrows. It also tears the research money up of the AI. In all the AW games I have been involved in, pillaging was the over-riding factor in determining the win. Making a smaller front helps a lot too. I recommend pillaging and on a secondary note getting rid of any thing in the south so that we can settle there. this game is extra hard because we can't keep workers and they are crucial. The cow town should get up to population to get 2-3 turn workers. We need roads to south. Now that we have math, catapults are key too.

I've been building cats and I think we have 4 already. We need more. They definitely helped.

I am not sure why I only saw some longbows but not MDIs or Pikes. We may face them soon.

Agree on max research. We are one tech from Middle Ages. We need a lot more cities, even if they are size 2. Scientists would help our research a lot.

Scientists only give one beaker in PTW, so they won't help much.

Catapults are great, I will try to focus on that. And more horses, And more of everything...this is painful.

You're all idiots!Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm a fool, 'slinger's a maniac, 'empire's a noob, and Microbe's just a little nearsighted. No idiots here. :p

Thanks for the validation scout :D

I hope you don't mind me lurking around here..
You guys lots of fun ;)

Great, we're also cheap entertainment for Team Smackster. You do realize for the each laugh you expend at our expense, that equals 10 points off your team's final score. So please, keep laughing away :p

EDIT: Scratch the cheap, we're charging premium rates now, -100 points for even the slightest chuckle!

You know, I'm trying to salvage our dire tech situation by figuring out the DoWs (yes again, I know, I'm obsessed :help: but I'm the one that botched up the German DoW by 41 turns!!! :cry: ). Please do not be depressed by my findings, I'm already depressed by my mistake. It's better for us to just fight on. BUT, and this is a big but, if we have other civs on the other side of the world, then we might have an outlet. I checked the first original DoW on Greece. This came at the IT between turns 1 and 2 of Microbe's 1st set. This is turn #32. I added 20 turns till i hit to the 10th time of adding 20 (if the total number of AIs is 11). Below is the turns that are/were supposed to be our DoWs:

Turn #32 Greece
#52 England
#72 France
#92 America
#112 Russia
#132 Babylon
#152 Germany
#172 Unknown Civ 8
#192 Unknown Civ 9
#212 Unknown Civ 10
#232 Unknown Civ 11

We stand currently at turns 141-150 with goz's set. So, I am STRONGLY pushing for some suicidal galleys to make their way across and get some last ditch trading options too possibly bail us out with some techs. Civ 8 may be out of the potential trading partners, but 9-11 are definitely possible. Getting several galleys and making that suicidal trek should take within 20 turns, in the most ideal case. Of course, we have enemy galleys running around, but hopefully they are just on transport missions and will abstain from engaging us.

EDIT If anyone has the patience left, mind double checking my results? And are we allowed to use F10 to see who are our opponents?

F10, why not? Or F7?

But I'm afraid we've met everybody..

Here is probably our answer to the pillage problem:
M-B said this:
One team has reported that they cannot pillage using armies. This issue is under investigation, and no action will be taken until I can determine whether there is a problem with the bic, the bix or an individual save.

tao responded with this:
This is not new. IIRC the pillage capability was removed for GOTM (bic?) because it was considered exploitive,since the AI nearly never attacks armies.

So as scout and you guys have already said, horsies it is.

And microbe, when you said "F10, why not?" does that mean, sure use F10, why not?

Sorry, but I must disagree. I'm a fool, 'slinger's a maniac, 'empire's a noob, and Microbe's just a little nearsighted. No idiots here. :p

:lol: I accept that and I guess I'm the only idiot then.

So now over to my awkward turnset, I'm still sweating...

Pre-turn - One turn left on anarchy, I want HG in Rome and send the leader there and rush the wonder.

Kill a russian sword with elite horse, move some troops around.
Tickle an English LB with horse, inflicts 1hp damage and retreats. Kill the LB with elite leg and we get another leader.

Rush Pentagon in Neapolis.

260AD - We defend against russian sword in Veii.

Hanging Gardens and Pentagon completes and we are a Monarchy. Everyone else is building Sun Tzu and Leo's.

MM all cities and all citizens are back to work.

Rome is set to build legs.
Neapolis will build catapult.

Elite leg 1/5 kills rep hoplite and raze Argos.
vet leg kill reg hoplite with settler, lose 3hp and disband the workers.
elite archer kills russian reg archer
elite leg kills english reg archer

Load 2 legs in empty army.

Research construction at 90%, due in 7t at -40gpt.

270AD - We defend against a couple of archers.

Cumae catapult -> catapult

Elite leg kill french sword and we get another leader!

Rush a few pults. We need more cities, switch Antium to settler and rush it for 92g.

Wake up almost healed army and send it homewards.

280AD - Leg defends against french sword

Veii pult -> leg
Antium settler -> horse
Neapolis pult -> leg
Pisae pult -> leg
Ravenna pult -> leg
Hispalis pult -> pult
Lugdunum pult -> spear

Reg leg dies against 2hp Babs sword. Vet leg kills him.
elite* dies against reg hoplite, elite kills the hoplite and raze Delphi.

290AD - Rome leg -> leg

elite leg with settler kills american archer
army kills spear in Uruk
army kills german sword
leg kills another german sword
Horse kills german archer

lose an elite archer trying to kill hurt russian spear with settler
horse kills the spear and disband the workers

Our catapults are pretty pathetic
vet leg kills american spear
vet horse kills bowman

300AD - Lose elite spear against french sword

army kill bowman in Uruk, still a spear in the city
kill russian sword and archer

310AD - We defend against french archer. Spot a french knight.

Pompeii horse -> legs

elite leg kill spear in american town (forgot the name) and raze the city.
leg kill english LB

Byzantium founded -> walls

army kills spear in Uruk and raze the city

320AD - We defend against english LB and retreat the french knight.

Rome leg -> leg
Cumae pult -> pult

kill the french knight
kill 3 russian swords, lose elite horse
kill american sword and warrior

kill english LB
kill french LB
kill english spear
kill german archer
kill french LB

This is rough, no matter how many I kill, they keep coming.

330AD - Defend against russian archer

Veii leg -> settler
Neapolis leg -> leg
Hispalis pult -> spear

kill babs LB
kill american spear and sword

340AD - We learn Construction -> scientist on Feudalism for now

Rome leg -> leg
Antium horse -> spear
Lugdunum spear -> barracks (missed that before)

kill babs LB
kill greek sword

350AD - Defend against german LB

Kill german LB
kill Babs spear
kill greek sword
kill bowman
kill german pike

Not much of a progress I'm afraid, it was defending and bombarding units and take them out.

We still have that leader sitting in Rome, we need 3 more cities to build another army.

I switched 3 cities to settlers due in 1-2 turns. Remove the Babs town of Samarra and found a city there. Another spot is the horse SE of Pisae and we might try to remove the American town near Byzantium.

My intention were to go towards the German town Cologne, but enemies kept on coming in a never ending stream :)

Ravenna is undefended atm, move an army back please.

Save gold for a couple more turns and then try to up the science. We have 40g and make 31gpt right now.

So we are now facing knights.. :( Have we started pillaging?

Unfortunaltely no, I tried to get units north, but the enemies just kept coming. The blue-ribbon mountain you see on the latest screenie was only the beginning. That string of units probably continued over the rest of the continent :)

BUT, I managed to get a few units to our northern city Cumae and with some more backup we can get an army over there too soon. When we settle 3 more towns we can build another army and we can possibly move defenses around a bit.

I think my ratio was something like 10:1 and the catapults did some great work of softening up the enemies. And most of my units was hurting most of the time too, so counter attacks wasn't really on my mind :)

Barbslinger - on deck
ForTheEmpire
microbe
gozpel
scout - up

So as far as we know, the AI has Monotheism, Feudalism, Chivalry, Engineering and Invention. We are now researching Feud. I'm impressed, our tech situation isn't that far behind :D However, it really seems that none of the AIs are fighting amongst themselvs :(

I think microbe says this is fine, so I hit the little icon for the space race. This is what I see from the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/350ad_space.JPG

We still have 5 contacts left to make, meaning 5 more potential trading partners :D

:eek: Why didn't I think of that?

Suicidal galleys please during the next set, if it's possible to pull them out.

EDIT: And let us pray the unmet civs are as silly and backward as us :p

We absolutely weren't as smart as we thought.

I don't do it but please read this as giant font:

send a galley (or two) to the other continent!

I don't do it but please read this as giant font:

send a galley (or two) to the other continent!

:love: Aww.... that was sooo cute! Alright, before I get slapped silly, I'll shut up now :spank:

Nolidge is powwer!

A couple of techs wouldn't hurt us now and IF we could get our grubby hands on Chivalry, we would be in a good position.

Nolidge is powwer!...and kul-cher is klass....
A couple of techs wouldn't hurt us now and IF we could get our grubby hands on Chivalry, we would be in a good position.Awe, c'mon, I wuz hopin' you'd say Theology, so we could build lot's of cathedrals and go for a 100k win. And if you think I'm serious, I've got some great "lakefront" property down here in Florida for you.

Too bad we don't get Trebuchets in PTW... In a personal epic game recently I was able to really rip through some muskets with Trebs and MDI (and pikes to cover...though our legions could fill that role too...)

Knights would be nice, but if we can take a nice chunk out of the AI before Cavalry, we should be OK.

I'll start pounding on the panic button once I see cavalry before we finish researching feudalism. Now, if the other continent has tanks and we still are reseraching feud., then we better hope that :spear: is no myth.

EDIT: Of course, this is emperor, that shouldn't be possible ;)

Scout, you are up!

Microbe that avatar is so funny that you enjoy it. I think I'll add a Microbe crawling accoss above the glasses, obviously coming from the core, to amplify your effect.

Hope you enjoying it.

Got it. Dispatches shortly. (@Microbe: I should have said I planned to wait until Saturday morning...apologies.)

That avatar is too cool :cool: Nice work on that Barb :goodjob:

@scout
Give 'em hell! :ar15:

Pre-flight check:

Cities: We need more. Check.
Military: We need more. Check.
:coffee: I need more. Check.

Fire the scientist in Pompeii and take science to 10% for the moment.

This eastern coast is nothing but rockpiles. :lol:

IBT- A German Knight kills a legion on a hill, English and German troops advance.
Rome Legion>Legion | Lutetia Rax>Spear | Pisae Settler>Legion |

London completes Sun Tzu's
Babs cascade to Sistine, Russia to Leo's, Sistine; Germans to Leo's, Sistine.

Turn 1 - (360) Moving some troops around... I think it's time to push north and hurt someone.

IBT - somebody's longbow promotes on of our Legions outside Ravenna. English Troops advance, German Knight kills a spear on a mountain.
Veii Settler >Legion | Antium Riots :smoke: | Neaopolis Settler>Legion | Ravenna Legion>Legion | Hispalis Spear>Worker | Byzantium Moenia...what the hell is that?> Worker

French building Leo's

Turn 2 - (370)

Lob lots of rocks at a pair of German swords outside Ravenna, Rush the Legion in Pompeii

Check a worker near Antium to see what he's been doing... and he's been ordered to "Meto Sylvanus". I hope that means forest chop, because that's what I'm sending another worker to do.

Kill the German Swords.

I'm pushing Legions, Catapults, workers, and settlers north. I think Paris lies in a nice spot for a Roman Town and a Forbidden Palace.

I'm also sending a settler south with some Legions to sack and replace Stuttgart. I'd like to have that Incense.

IBT - I see a French Musketeer. Cumae Catapult>Catapult Pompeii Legion>Spear

Turn 3 (380) Lob some rocks at an English spear outside Neaopolis.

Catapults weaken German Knight, Legion kills it an promotes. Now standing on a site I plan to settle on the road to Paris.

Outside Neaopolis I kill an english spear and a Longbow.

IBT - English Longbow dies to a Legion outside Byzantium.
Rome Legion>Settler | Antium Legion>Legion | Hispalis Worker>Worker |

Turn 4 (390) mostly repositioning...

IBT - Enemy troops advance.

Turn 5 (400) lose two Legions to a Russian pike outside Rome. :cry:

Brundisium Founded. Change Rome's queue to Legion.

IBT - more troops advance. Hispalis Worker>Catapult | Vironicum Temple>Catapult

Turn 6 (410) Whack that annoying little Russian Pike, advance troops on Stuttgart, get some workers making a road in the mountains...

IBT - more troops advance. A Greek archer falls to our spear on a hill where some workers are roading towards a future city site. An Elite German Knight loses a HP advancing on Brundisium, then falls to the Elite Legion in the Garrison. Rome Legion>Settler Neaopolis Legion>Legion

Turn 7 (420) Knock some HP off the French Musketeeer outside Ravenna, our army takes care of business there. Advance on Stuttgart, promote a Legion killing an American Archer that was dropped off near Pompeii IBT. Knock some HP off the Spear Garrison at Cologne. Whack a Babylonian settler pair, and disband the captured workers on the spot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_workercap.jpg

Our Army kills the second spear in Cologne, and there's still a longbow in there.

IBT - An English longbow dies to our horse outside Brundisium. A second longbow retreats it. A French Knight moves towards the southern flank. Veii Legion>Legion Ravenna Legion>Legion

English building Sistine Chapel.

Turn 8 (430) Dangit. I lost 2 of 3 Elite Legions at Stuttgart. Somehow Bismarck managed to slip a KNIGHT in there. He doesn't fare so well at Cologne.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_microbe_cologne.jpg

I also whack a couple of German Knights near Brundisium.

IBT - Enemy troops advancing all over the place. Two Legions are lost, but they take 3 enemy swords down with them. Rome Settler>Legion | Cumae Catapult>Legion. Pompeii Spear>Legion

Turn 9 (440) Mostly shuffling...whack a Babylonian Longbow outside Brundisium. Misclick a move with a legion, so I reload and re-do the bombarding. (Meant to put him in the city...) Rush Legions in Veii and Pisae.

IBT - Germans request an audience, and are refused. They go 1 for 2 with Knights against Brundisium. LOTS of troops advance on Brundisium. I think that town really gets under the AI skin. French Knight retreats after having a go at Antium. Veii Legion>Legion | Antium Legion>Legion | Pisae Legion>Legion | Hispalis Catapult>Catapult | Lugdunum Rax>Spear

English start Bach's.

Turn 10 (450) The situation's looking a little ugly here... knock lots of HP off lots of units with the cats, retreat a german Knight with our Army, kill a redlined german Knight with a horse. New Legion at Antium finishes French Knight.

At the end of my turns, I noted the biggest :smoke: move I've made this week...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_microbe_scout_weed.jpg

Next better player, PLEASE claim that incense by plopping the settler on the tile occupied by the vet legion. (the settler's one tile away) This will boost our happiness, and our score.

Some notes:

There is a settler towards the S in position to found a town on the tile occupied by a forted spear and a team of workers that should complete a road in time for the settler to found the city on the next turn.

I already mentioned the settler in the SE that could claim incense next turn... I'm really sorry I got all bloodthirsty and went after Stuttgart. :blush: :rolleyes:

Brundisium is the site of a slugfest in the NEAR future. Workers will finish roading the hill NW of Brundisium next turn, which will allow you to evacuate the workers and maneuver the catapults a little better. I had wanted to try and muster an advance on Paris...but with enemy coming at us from literally every direction, it just wasn't possbile. Here's a screenie of Brundisium as it looked at the end of my turns:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3_microbe_Brundisium.jpg

NOTE:We have a leader in Rome, and when we found just ONE more city, we can make another Army.

I'm off to upload the save.

Barbslinger - up
ForTheEmpire - on deck
microbe
gozpel
scout

I'll have to read this later. I got very tired after playing Bugs2.1 (but hey, some of my best turns ever). But by the first glance scout seemed to have done a good job! But we need to meet other AIs.

English start Bach's.
Hmm... :cringe: we are now half an age behind, maybe even 2/3 of an age. At least the AIs haven't focused completely on the low path and went for cavalry first. I like Brundisium's position, since it seems to draw all of the AIs forces towards it, leaving our core alone for now.

No luck on getting some suicidal galleys out?

EDIT: moenia = walls

Sorry for a double post, but this is kinda important (I think?). Aren't we supposed to have a summary of the ancient ages to post on the spoiler thread?

Yes, so we did enter Middle Ages huh?

Who is going to write the summary?

Who is going to write the summary?

The teamleader of course :banana:

Here's your summary: We came, we saw, we read...and still didn't understand... so we just declared a bunch of wars. :p

CAn't play this tonight. I am hammered. Looking forward to it in the morning, aka mid afte4noon for me.

Me thinks a terrible fate has fallen upon Barbslinger. Perhaps he is being faced with cavalry and is valiantly trying to figure out a way to counter them with our backswards military... :p

... I think a more likely scenario is that he got drunk on the fruit of the vine, as opposed to the blood of our enemies...

Sorry guys, I was tied up with the lady out of town with no internet. I'll play tonight.

Lucky.... I still have no lady in my life :cry:

SGOTM – Microbe – 450AD

Preturn – Not too bad. I swap the brundisium rax to walls. Not sure what the workers on the eastern iron are doing there. Roading that mountain is low on my list when we have a slew of tiles to improve. We need 2 towns for another army so that will certainly be a priority. No easy kills laying about. We have a single scientist. We are going to have to get the economy up somehow.
IT – Our Brund E legion kills 4 units losing 3 hp. A Russian settler pair in the southeast and an archer near our settler in the mid south.
[1] 460 – Settle 2 sites one grabbing incense. Kill the russian settler and disband. Take a horse shot at SE Stuttgart hoping there was only a spear. Kill it but there is another. Move the workers off the iron to go back to the core. Move another spear with the Greek archer threatening the southern town of Gonzomonium. Odd name. Syacuse is the SE incense town. Flip a build to galley in 6. Build army with Titus.
IT – Enemy moving in. Rome and Neapolis build legions>same. Get our 1st palace expansion of a front door on the cave.
[2] 470 – Move the army to go get loaded up. Take an E Leg shot at a LB and get a leader. I think it would look good as a market somewhere. Kill a couple of other units. Moving on Grenoble and also looking to take the settler to the west coast.
IT – Enemy moving in still.
[3] 480 – Rush the market in Neapolis with the leader. Bomb some swords near Brund. Retreat and then kill a knight near Brund.
IT – Antium and Ravenna-Leg>Leg. Neapolis-Market(Forum)>Leg
[4] 490 – No units lost but army down to 6hp near Brund retreating a knight. Kill another knight on Brunds SE mountain after bombing down. Troops nearly ready at SE Greece town. English LB threatening 7/13 army in Byzantium.
IT – Trouble! A German knight lands in our backyard. Quite a few builds. Lose a legion to threatening LB near Byzantium.
[5] 500 – Rotate spears to try to cover. One unit short of razing Grenoble. Ready on Rhodes next turn. Just noticed we don’t have Lit. Was going to squeeze in a lib build in Rome because our income in+22gpt now.
IT – Hispalis is captured. The spear almost won though. A few AI building JSB. 3 German knights bearing S towards Neapolis.
[6] 510 – Recapture Hispalis. Raze Rhodes and Grenoble killing 4 slaves. Bomb the knight but have to give up the roaded hill to do it. Looks like the greeks are at war with Germany because when I moved the 2 legions and horse I had in reserve to take down Rhodes there were 2 greek archers looking like they are attacking. I rush a couple legions.
IT – 3 legions and a galley build. Lose 2 horses and beat a sword.
[7] 520 – Move on Stuttgart and an army kills a hoplite in the Greek capital, Thermopylae. Kill 3 knights and could kill the 4th but it would be exposed. 2 ¾ muskets threatening Byzantium. Have an army and a legion in there.
IT – A few builds and the greeks pull a fast one and bring a sword out of the fog and have an archer and sword poise to hut Gonzo. There is a bab spear blocking the road for reinforcements.
[8] 530 – Raze Stuttgart and kill a slave. Bomb and kill a knight and get another leader which heads to Pisae to build a market. Rome is on 2 turn legions now. I’ve gotten some infra done in the core. Our galley looks to be in trouble already when it sees an English galley across the way. If it is carrying passengers it won’t attack. In Gonzo I kill the spear and get some reinforcements in. Our army goes to 6/17 killing another Hoplite in Thermopylae.
IT – In Gonzo we lose the legion. Lose the elite* Leg that just created the leader falls after the 2hp knight that I was not worried about loses and then a knight out of the fog wins. Galley pulls into our southern harbor so it is loaded.
[9] 540 – Kill a few more workers and beat a musket on a hill with a legion. He was going for the iron and I had 2 more legions moving in if he failed. Thermopylae has another hoplite but now we’re injured.
IT- Gonzo survives one archer attack and sword runs off. England lands a LB.
[10] 550 – Cover workers that chopped the deer forest with an army. Brundisium is not so well defended because of other needs but we will need some troops up there. Move some Syracuse troops to meet with Thermo army. Galley is ready to make a suicide attempt.

As always we need more troops and the muskets are becoming a pain. I razed a few towns and built 2 markets. We are at +29gpt now. You can rush a unit next turn too. I Neapolis or Cumae. I might do Cumae’s to send to Brund after the IT. No towns can fall on the IT but hopefully we will have some good RNG to be able to move some troops out.
The Thermo area would make a nice FP too. If we can clear it out and build that area and then finish off the southern enemy towns I think we would be in decent shape.

Looks like the greeks are at war with Germany

Finally some respite, if this can actually qualify as respite. Good job barb, and I got it. I could actually have this done late tonight, early tomorrow. In the meanwhile I'll start sacrificing virtual bulls and sheep to the RNG gods for a safe voyage for our suicidal galley.

Good progress, let's see how far we can go against Knights and muskets. Have we started pillaging yet?

Barbslinger
ForTheEmpire - up
microbe - on deck
gozpel
scout

I just checked the scores: we are actually second in place among all games that play this variant. The only team that beats us is Smackster, which already finished in 1300 AD.

I'm proud of you guys. :)

Um.. you might want to look at the scores as a table instead of a graph... I'm not sure you're looking at the right line there Microbe...

No pillaging as yet. It's tough to get a couple horses grouped under an army. It may be possible soon with the two armies that razed grenoble. Need some horses though. More cats too.

Um.. you might want to look at the scores as a table instead of a graph... I'm not sure you're looking at the right line there Microbe...

I obviously looked at the wrong color. :cry: