SGOTM3 Rome - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3.jpg

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Original GOTM16 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm16_rome.shtml)
The Draft Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)

This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.
1. Non-Oscillating War variant. You keep a list of opponents and the order in which you meet them.
2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.
4. You must declare war on the second Civ you met on the same turn that the first Civ was eliminated or 20 turns has elapsed (whichever happens sooner). This is to prevent sandbagging.
5. After each opponent is eliminated or 20 turns elapse you must declare war on the next civ in the list.
6. If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

Have fun, and good luck everyone!

Signing in. We want to do the variant, iirc?

Edit: ok...some more details...

I play emperor to deity. In SGOTM1 I played on team "Shevek without Shevek" and we finished second in Jason score. In SGOTM2 I was with conehead on team Kuningas and we won with highest Jason score. I like to the variant, but only if the other team members feal comfortable with it, as it is really a difficult variant.

We are now at war with everyone that we know. :ar15: ~marconos

List of Contacts and year contacted:
1.) France contacted 2630BC :hammer:
2.) Greece contacted 2270 BC :hammer:
3.) England contacted 2190 BC :hammer:
4.) Russia contacted 2190 BC :hammer:
5.) Babylon contacted 2190 BC :hammer:
6.) America contacted 1625 BC :hammer:
7.) Germany Contacted 1000 BC :hammer:They Declared on us MA with Russia

Turn order

grs
marconos -
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -
conhead234 -up



Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC - at war declared 410 BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD - at war
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD -at war can wait until 530 AD to start next if we meet someone
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD Remember we need to declare immediately if we meet someone after this date
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD



Thanks Gator

I'm all for the Variant. Now that I know two of the players on the team.

@grs - I've been lurking AG11 - Solo wars with AI warfare tactics (deity) ` good stuff

@Gator ~ It seems we sill be seeing each other all over the place. Here - tdg - jump masters

For turns I've seen other teams try to set-up the turns to follow the sun. I am EST in America GMT -4

Edit: My normal hours that I am available to the forum are between 6:30 AM to 6:00 P.M. (work hours) I have a cable modem at work and dial up at home. Also a 1 month old daughter and 4 year old son. The two of these take a bunch of my waking/non-working time.

Ok, I'm here. I got a golden Laurel in SGOTM1, and a Green Laurel in SGOTM2. I want to get the wooden spoon so I have a complete collection but I do not think the rest of the team will agree with me. So lets go for a Golden Laurel.

I have the spoon and would love to get one of the others. This has the potential of being a very strong team. I was just browsing grs's (grs1 - the roman legions ) he even has experiance with the legions.

Conehead has too, he played in the game.
Ordering by time zones is not important to me, as you normally wont play that fast anyways. So we can make up a roster out of our own preferences - I don't have any - slot me in where you like.

We should agree on starting moves though. It looks to me like a "settle on spot and work the bg at the river" start.

We could move the settler SW to get more production later on with an extra hill and get the forest game in play right away.

With roading and mining the BG and roading the forrest the game will be available by the time we get there. Edit: I like the idea of staying put. Do you use RCP?

Hey guys ... my first attempt at trying something like this so go easy on me.

I normally play monarch level I have been trying emporer level ... keep quitting and restarting as not happy with how things are progressing in those games.

I'm on American EST. I generally play in the evenings. Available for checking forum status at any time. Software developer who contracts out so very flexible.

Background: Wife and 3 kids 7, 5 and 2. Take good amount of time so I'm generally playing late into the nite.

I want to play the variant and I have actually just played a chieftran game and almost followed all of the variant rules. Makes things kind of fun and REALLY ticks off the computer oponents.

Starting Move Suggestion:

Settle where we are at and mine then road the BG just NE of the city.
Then back through town to mine and road the BG just SW of the city.

Initial thought is to then chop the forest on the Game tile for our granery (Do we start with pottery ???? ) Then road it and settle next city in that directrion.

Too much info here to little??? Let me know what I need to do to be a good participant here.

Welcome marconos. (a fellow Michigander..Just south of my alma mater)

Too much info here to little??? Let me know what I need to do to be a good participant here.

Post away give your thoughts and insights and questions. The more comunications the better IMHO.

We could move the settler SW to get more production later on with an extra hill and get the forest game in play right away.

I don't like the idea of moving ... Puts a turn behind. As well we won't see the xtra production until our city size is quite large and after many turns of "working" the land. We would also lose at least one grassland that we would have to irrigate to support them ... to get all of the hills at least two.

It appears to me that the two lands SE of us on the other side of the hills may be more grasslands. I would think we would charge for two to three cities very quickly and do NO exploring so we don't find anyone until we have something to fight with. Or is that against the spirit of the game?

With this type of game are we going to drive right for Monarchy??? Republic is going to have too many issues with happiness IMHO. I don't think the game will ever make it to communisim or Facism.

I would think we would charge to philospy ... trade for mysticism and polythism and use our free tech for monarchy.

Hey guys, I just got back in town last night.

I need to catch up up on some emails, look at the save & I'll post some of my thoughts.

On first glance it looks like the team is favoring the variant. That is fine with me. As part of team akots, we played SGOTM02 as AW and still had a domination win in 1040AD.

Welcome back Gator. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

I don't think the game will ever make it to communisim or Facism.

I would think we would charge to philospy ... trade for mysticism and polythism and use our free tech for monarchy.

THIS IS NOT CONQUESTS! Please do not even think about playing in conquests. The game is a PTW game... No free tech and no facism.

Thanks mad-bax.

marconos brings up a good point though. Do we turtle and not explore until we have somewhat of an army amassed. or do we chance the early war?

Edit: I think we have chosen the Variant - although we have not heard from conehead on this.

Oops .. sorry keep playing conquest so just thought that one. I'll keep my conquest thoughts shut away in a deep dark corner of my mind.

As Misfit said, we seem to have a good strong team. Should be alot of fun. I'm a comfortable emporer/diety CivIII player and I normally play emporer in C3C.

I was on the 5th place SGOTM2 team, but we played it AW which meant we were only allowed to trade once with a civ and then declared war upon leaving the diplomacy screen. This game will be similar in nature. As far as the no haggling issue goes that will be of limited concern since we will find ourselves at war and thus not able to trade anyhow. We have been granted a 20 turn grace period (starting with the 2nd civ) in which we might be able to trade for some additional techs prior to DoW.

As Rome we start with Alpha which will give us a leg up on Literature. In SGOTM2 we were able to maintin techs by having used a GLeader to rush the GLibrary. By playing the sponsored variant the GLib will again be a key to our success.

A tight build pattern should be a key part of our expansion plans. Building within 3 tiles of another city allows for quick reinforcement and shifting of troops. The tight build will also increase our number of allowed units.

As for our opening moves I think a W move by the worker should be made before deciding on city location. We have the shields for a 4 turn settler factory but I see us 1 food short (+4 food vrs +5) at size 5. Depending on what the worker sees we can either settle on the spot or move 1 tile S. This still leaves us with the wine, game & 4 BG's in our cultural radius and hopefully an additional food resource. If there is another game or a wheat close by we could have a 4 turn settler/escort factory in our hands. I think it's worth a one turn settler move and possibly a 2 turn worker move to try and find that extra food unit.

Ok then - I have posted a rotation in post # 3. If no one has any problems with the order I think we are ready to start. I sugest reading over the variant rules each before every time you start to play to remember all of the rules. (I know I have a terrible memory for things like rules, so I will) We need to make sure that we keep track of the date that we meet each of our contacts so we can be sure to go to war with them 20 turns afterwards. If there are no other questions or comments, grs can get us started

Can someone please explain to me how the process of taking a turn and updating takes. My assumptions are as follows.

I go to the link in the start of this thread to get the latest version.
Discuss with the previous player ( or whole team? ) on this list where things are at and what the current thought it.
Do my turns of work after initial discussion .... discussion during turns is not necessary but is used to I don't mess things up too bad.
After completing turns upload file somewhere ( where is that at ) and put up any updated relevant information to this site.

Is that about right?
(After a couple turns I'll be done with the newbie questions)

Can someone please explain to me how the process of taking a turn and updating takes. My assumptions are as follows.

I go to the link in the start of this thread to get the latest version.
Discuss with the previous player ( or whole team? ) on this list where things are at and what the current thought it.
Do my turns of work after initial discussion .... discussion during turns is not necessary but is used to I don't mess things up too bad.
After completing turns upload file somewhere ( where is that at ) and put up any updated relevant information to this site.

Is that about right?
(After a couple turns I'll be done with the newbie questions)

My sugestion is to read thru a couple of SG's to get the feel of how things go

This is the thread for Team Scout for SGOTM2 >>>Here<<< (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=88121) you will get the idea of the turn reports after the 1st couple here

If you say to a civ "what do you want for steam?" and they reply "Democracy +127g + 55gpt +WM". Then you can accept it and declare war befor leaving the trade screen if you like. Your rep is yours to do as you wish with.

As for disbanding towns. No you can't do what you ask.

The idea is this... When you kill the last defender in a city, you get the choice of keeping the city, or razing it. You must always raze it. The exception is if the city was originally built by you. In this case you are allowed to see if there are any foreigners in the city. If there are you raze it, if not then you may keep it. No selling buildings.

I don't know if you all saw this posted in the sign-up thread so I thought I'd post it here.

Sorry for the Double post

I sugest reading over the variant rules each before every time you start to play to remember all of the rules. (I know I have a terrible memory for things like rules, so I will) We need to make sure that we keep track of the date that we meet each of our contacts so we can be sure to go to war with them 20 turns afterwards.

As for the variant rules I have recapped them as well as the Q&A from the signup thread. It's a Word doc that I zipped for upload. Here is the file. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3_Variant_Rule_QA.zip)

As for remembering the order and dates we can have Misfit edit his first post on page 1 to include this information. Or simply include it in the after action report.

Go for the variant. I could always use another goldern Laurel

Oops, I forgot to say that the roster looks fine to me.

As to research path, I think we need to beeline to LIT for the GLib. A look at our competitors (using the F10 space race) shows that all 1st tier techs are in play. We could go HBR or WRIT. I like WRIT then LIT and hopefully be able to trade around for most of the 1st tier techs. We are only going to get 1 chance to trade with most of the civs we meet, so we need to have something to trade.

Scouting wise I would also go in a circular pattern and explore our immediate area first. We need to locate good city sites and see how many cities/rings we can establish.

I would go with a Warrior, Warrior, barrack or settler build order. I'd save the forest chop for the barrack or to help rush the first settler. We can build archers from the start, but I would stick with warriors (2 for 1 in shield cost) until we learn our horse and iron outlook.

macronos: plese read what mad-bax posted in the first post in this tread.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< link

There is a link where you have to upload the save.

MB, has set up the maintenance thread and added some additional clarifications on the variant rules. It can be found here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93900)

@macronos - Please do not hesitate to ask us questions. As the old saying goes "The only stupid question is the one not asked."

Unto the starting moves:

grs: It looks to me like a "settle on spot and work the bg at the river" start.
conehead234: We could move the settler SW to get more production later on with an extra hill and get the forest game in play right away.
Mistfit: With roading and mining the BG and roading the forrest the game will be available by the time we get there. Edit: I like the idea of staying put. Do you use RCP?
macronos: Settle where we are at and mine then road the BG just NE of the city. Then back through town to mine and road the BG just SW of the city.
Initial thought is to then chop the forest on the Game tile for our granery (Do we start with pottery ???? ) Then road it and settle next city in that directrion... I don't like the idea of moving ... Puts a turn behind. As well we won't see the xtra production until our city size is quite large and after many turns of "working" the land. We would also lose at least one grassland that we would have to irrigate to support them ... to get all of the hills at least two.
DJMGator13: As for our opening moves I think a W move by the worker should be made before deciding on city location. We have the shields for a 4 turn settler factory but I see us 1 food short (+4 food vrs +5) at size 5. Depending on what the worker sees we can either settle on the spot or move 1 tile S. This still leaves us with the wine, game & 4 BG's in our cultural radius and hopefully an additional food resource. If there is another game or a wheat close by we could have a 4 turn settler/escort factory in our hands. I think it's worth a one turn settler move and possibly a 2 turn worker move to try and find that extra food unit...Research path WRIT then LIT...explore in a circular pattern in our immediate area...build order: warrior (scouting), warrior(mp) then either barrack or settler.

Note to team:

I have never hosted a SG before. I think mad-bax chose me for one of two reasons. #1 Team Mistfit has a pretty good ring to it. or #2 He wanted to get a good chuckle out of me struggling.

Either way If I am neglecting to do something or need to do somthing more please feel free to jum in and correct me or p.m. me with sugestions. I will take no offence, and it will prolly just help the team.

2nd note: After reading Gators sugestions, I like his idea to wait and see with the worker and make the decision from there.

I can buy moving the work west to see if there is another "special" tile for getting a 4 turn settler factory. If we don't see anything in that one worker move I say drop the city where we are at.

Writing and Lit seems good strategy as they should trade well (especially since we can rarely trade)

RCP == ring city placement correct --- that means we put all cities within 2 - 3 (???) squares of our captiol for corruption reasons right?

How much exploration are we going to do at the start. We really don't want to go to war with someone when we only have 2 warriors. We could easily end up fighting 3 - 4 oponents at one time in that case. Slow careful exploration IMHO.

I think mad-bax chose me for one of two reasons. #1 Team Mistfit has a pretty good ring to it. or #2 He wanted to get a good chuckle out of me struggling.


Neither. I just like your avatar ;)... that and the fact that you are on-line a lot and post a lot (rubbish mainly but hey, we can't have everything right? :joke: )

RCP == ring city placement correct --- that means we put all cities within 2 - 3 (???) squares of our captiol for corruption reasons right?
Yes, like that. You decide on distances like 3 and 7 - i.e. your first ring is in distance 3 your second in distance 7. But we first have to see if the terrain offers places for that. Normally rcp is a good city placement in ptw.

Edit: I will link a very good article on RCP for you when the server is up again.
Edit2: Here it is. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ring_city.shtml) Read also the two linked artikels by Alexman.

How much exploration are we going to do at the start. We really don't want to go to war with someone when we only have 2 warriors. We could easily end up fighting 3 - 4 oponents at one time in that case. Slow careful exploration IMHO.
Full ack, and we should get barracks soon, for vet. troops.

I will start us tomorrow evening in about 25 hours, ok?

RCP == ring city placement correct --- that means we put all cities within 2 - 3 (???) squares of our captiol for corruption reasons right?


Correct - here is a link (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ring_city.shtml) to the War Academy story about it. There is a nice grid map that you can print out that shows the distances in the referenced forum thread. I also use Dianthus' Rings program for making my dot maps (which you will see after our first turnset). EDIT: crossposted with grs edit adding the link. :)

To keep the tight city build for defensive purposes we could do a RCP3/6/9 but that depends on what the map has to show. Since we are going for a Dom/Conq victory type almost all of our cities will never reach size 12, so having all 21 tiles available is not necessary. The tight build also allows us to share improved tiles between cities for micromanaging purposes.

@grs
Good luck on your turns. MB indicated that it would take awhile to met the first civ so I think we could probably get a settler out as our 3rd build and then set to barracks as the city grows back to size 3.

Read the articles on RCP ... mostly do conquests and articles said that the benefit of doing this is much less.

Build Order Question: When you generate your 1st settler .... you don't do that until the city size drops back to three when the settler is generated? I normally have my 1st settler popping out when city hits a size of 3 thus dropping back to 1. So waiting for a larger city before popping a settler is a good idea? -- Normally Done?

BTW: If you guys don't mind I want to suck your brains dry during the SGOTM run to take my gaming to the next level. Been dabbling in emporer but whew is it tough. Someday I want to play on SID level ... course my wife already says I'm addicted. I have been playing a minimum of 4 hours per day for the last few weeks.

One point of clarification. Directions on the map. when you say move W ... is that the tile that is touching on the right edge of our tile or is it the NSEW setting turned so that full edges are the direction?

Read the articles on RCP ... mostly do conquests and articles said that the benefit of doing this is much less.

Build Order Question: When you generate your 1st settler .... you don't do that until the city size drops back to three when the settler is generated? I normally have my 1st settler popping out when city hits a size of 3 thus dropping back to 1. So waiting for a larger city before popping a settler is a good idea? -- Normally Done?

BTW: If you guys don't mind I want to suck your brains dry during the SGOTM run to take my gaming to the next level. Been dabbling in emporer but whew is it tough. Someday I want to play on SID level ... course my wife already says I'm addicted. I have been playing a minimum of 4 hours per day for the last few weeks.

One point of clarification. Directions on the map. when you say move W ... is that the tile that is touching on the right edge of our tile or is it the NSEW setting turned so that full edges are the direction?

Here is a nice compass/keyboard map
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Compassrose_Keys.gif

Settler issue: For an early settler I try to start it so it is done around the same time the city grows to size 3. Later after the second city is up and if the first city is to be a settler factory you want to let it grow to size 4 or 5 (depending on 4 vrs 5 turn settler factory) before creating additional settlers.

This was the biggest change I've had to make to my game to improve. Tighter Cities. When I started to play I would put cities around willy-nilly but I have come to see the power of RCP and tighter city placement

I have started placing my cities closer together ... it's what got me from regeant to monarch. I generally get going well and can keep up and pass the computer on establishing cities ( even in emporer ) . It's after that when things get ugly.

On city placement. I have seen when you place cities 1 square apart that both cities can work the same square. Is this something we could take advantage of here? Or is that just a bug in the game ( it doesn't always seem to work.)

On city placement. I have seen when you place cities 1 square apart that both cities can work the same square. Is this something we could take advantage of here? Or is that just a bug in the game ( it doesn't always seem to work.)

You can't work the same tiles but you can share them. City A can work it this turn and City B can work it the next. I do this to try to minimize the wasted/lost food & shields on the growth or production turn. Say City A is +4 food but only needs 1 more food in the granary for growth, I will mm City to increase sheilds for the 1 turn and allow City B to use a high food tile (ie a Wheat or Flood Plain tile). Same goes for the sheild box. Since the extra food & sheilds do not carry over you want to minimize what is lost.

As a side it's also important to time your forest chops as to not waste the 10 shields it produces.

moving w does not reveal much, settle Rome - start warrior; research writing at min
roading bg west then mine it
3800BC: Rome warrior-warrior
3550BC: Rome warrior-armamentarium; borders expand and we see a greek hoplite on a mountain to the east, this is not nice as hoplites are the best early defense unit in the game, it will be near impossible to kill one in a mountain with a warrior; will try to avoid contact
3450BC: we spot a pink border to the nw - Joan; hoplite vanished to the east
3350BC: armamentarium completed - warrior and another 2 after that
3050BC: we meet the Hoplite again
3000BC: a start another warrior; rome need 10% lux

THE ORDER OF OUR FOES:

* Greece
* France

If you dare you could grab our 3 vets and try to attack Greece; I would also connect the lux next.

Here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_BC3000_01.SAV) is the save.

Contact is established when you enter the diplomacy (trading) screen with an opponent. Diplomacy may be initiated by either the human player or the AI.Did this happen? or have you just seen the units?

THE ORDER OF OUR FOES:

* Greece
* France


Have we actually had diplomatic contact? If not the timer has not started yet. If so were you able to do any trading? EDIT: Crossposted with Mistfit.

Two close civs will make this interesting. Hopilites are 1/3/1 not good odds with regular warriors. Don't worry about offensive plans yet. Just because we have to declare war does not mean we have to go on the offensive.

Based on the closeness of the two civs I think a RCP3/6/9 is definately in order.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Mistfit3000BC_Dot.jpg

6 of 7 sites are on rivers (no aqueduct needed) - Site E is not. Lets continue to explore our immediate area and create some cities. We should probably bring the NE warrior back home over the mountains and expanding our view locally.

will try to avoid contact
I would have told you if I made contact.

THE ORDER OF OUR FOES:

* Greece
* France

I think this is what thru us. We have no order of foes yet. Until contact.

Well it looks like we made contact with the Greeks because there Hopilite is between our 2 warriors.

What is the teams opinion of changing the build order to a settler before the next warrior? Or sould we wait and time it with the pop4 in 10 turns?

Looking at Gators Rings I think the order should go A - F - G

A for the food bonus
F & G to close off the route to the north between the two bits of water

@ conehead234: Contact is only made thru Diplo screen opening see <<<here>>> (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93900)

I got it. But I prolly wont play until tonight or tomorrow afternoon so post any suggestions and I will get online before I play

Pretty much my plan consists of
1.) limited exploration
2.) Pop a settler A.S.A.P.
3.) bring NE warrior back across the mountains
4.) Keep my head down

Agree on the settler pop. We really need to get a second city started.

After the settler pops we should go right to another settler. This one would go to area G. I don't like having to cross the river as that will cost us a lot of movement turns but locations F&G just look better then the others do to the production potential.

The new city should go right to a barracks. If we get masonry then we should adjust to palace and start prebuilding our great library.

After city 2 get's a barracks it should start poducing 100% archers so if we do have to go to war we can hopefully make a quick one out of it.

Question --- How critical is it to get the cities exactly on the letter locations on the map. City position C is on top of a nice bonus grassland. Does it make more sense to move the city 1 tile NE or SW to be able to keep that tile or does the corruption penalty actually do that much for a single position?

What size is this map. It seems really small for the number of opponents on it.

I am having problems with my computer at home right now. I don't know what the hell I did to it. It may take until Sunday evening for me to fix and play if someone wants to pick it up I will be alright with a switch or skip just let me know, If not I should get it fixed tonight and play on Sunday. I'm at work now.

I may be able to take it today.

Thanks Conehead, have at it. This will give me a bit of extra time to tear apart my deck.

First theSAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_BC2550_01.SAV)

Preturn-Change Rome to a Settler.
IT- Greek Hopite moves south, no contact yet.
1- exploration, worker moves to the BG NE of Rome.
IT- A greece Hopite appears by the silks to our east.
2- Continue to explore, Worker begins to mine.
IT-A Greek warrior appears to our east.
3- Continue to explore, trying to avoid contact.
IT-Greece units disappear again
4-Spot the Greek Border to our East, Find spices to our west.
IT-Rome Settler->warrior.
5- Begin to move the settler toward spot A. Find a greece Hopite by our settler, I hope we do not make contact or he will kill our settler.
IT- No contact made. Greece hopite runs south.
6-Move settler into place, will settle next turn.
IT-A pink warrior appears to the east of us.
7-Settle Veii, set to build a Barracks.
IT- France makes contact with US! They offer BW for 70 gold. I go for the deal because we will need the defense soon. France is up Masonry and CB and have some Condimentum, whatever that is. They also have 2 cities, including there capital. Declare war on France.
8-Change Rome to archer.
IT-nada
9-Spot French warrior
IT- A regular french warrior attacks our vet warrior, we win.
10-Continue to explore.

Contact has not been made with greece yet. Try to avoid walking into greek land because that may cause contact.

Map, 2550BC

Am I correct in saying that 1st contact was made in 2650 A.D. and we need to be at war next by 1650 AD?

Also do we want to make contact with greece now? we still have 17 turns before we have to make war on them. possible trade

Well we haven't made "contact" with Greece yet. I never opened the diplo screen with them. I do not think the timer starts untill we do that. Maybe MadBax will know.

Once you are at war with an opponent, you must declare war on the next opponent on your contact list before 20 turns have expired since the start of the war.
I read this that we have to start our nect war no later than 20 turns from contact. That is if we make another contact within the next 20 turns. If not we will have to make war as soon as the next contact comes.

Mistfit is correct. I have added (yet) another explanation in the maintenance thread with an example

The date you declare war has nothing to do with when you make contact with another civ - except in one particular instance. You declare war on the next civ in your list 20 turns or less after you declared war on the previous civ. The only time the date contact is made is important is if you run out of civs to declare on temporarily and more than 20 turns pass since the last war was declared. In this case you declare on the civ before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.

Example

Opponent..........Contact Turn.........DoW date
Persia----------------35----------------------35
Zulu------------------38----------------------55
Germany-------------38----------------------75
America--------------82----------------------82
Japan-----------------85---------------------102
China-----------------115--------------------115
Spain-----------------132--------------------135
__________________
MB.

this is from the maintenence thread

Lets try to keep the date on the turn log and keep a running tally of the date there too.

I will start this with my turns.

Now that we are at war I would like to discuss what we want as a general makeup of our armies. My thought is a standard attack group would consist of 2 - 3 Spearman with 5 - 6 archers and if we have catapults 2 - 3 of those. That group should be able to walk up and take most cities and the computer shouldn't attack to much due to the group size.

Is that too large of a group to consider or would that be about right?

I have been trying some emporer games and getting my head handed to me on a platter. I also have started the GOTM33 and that is going quite bad. My goal is to no screw things up too bad in my turn cycle.

Misfit you are next then is conehead234 going again or am I going. No problem just want to make sure I know when to jump in here.

Sorry, but we dont want catapults that early I guess. We will not want that many defensive troops (spearmen) - especially as our legion is 3-3 and yeys I think this is way too large this early in the game.

K ... hadn't researched the abilities of the UU of Roman. 3/3 in early ages is really good. Spearmen aren't a necessity for that. I was also thinking along the lines of attack groups for us before we have iron working. Due to the fact that we are driving for the GLibrary it may be awhile before we have IW and we will hopefully have France out by then.

Sorry I haven't been active, I had family in the weekend.

Now that we are at war with FRA the GRK will probably be next. Mistfit is correct that the 20 turn counter starts from when we declare war on the first civ. Any contacts that happen within the next 20 turns do not require us to immediately issue a DoW.

As for when the initial contact is made IBT then the later of the two dates applies. I allow this, since you are already disadvantaged from havining to trade IBT.


Contact with FRA occurred on the IBT to turn 8 of conehead's round. That would make the contact date 2630BC. So according to the date calculator we need to declare war on civs on or by the following dates.

Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC
Civ 2 - tba - 1830BC
Civ 3 - tba - 1300BC
Civ 4 - tba - 800BC
Civ 5 - tba - 390BC
Civ 6 - tba - 10AD
Civ 7 - tba - 330AD
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Any contact that takes more than 20 turns to acheive requires us to DoW immediately. So if GRK doesn't contact us until 1790BC we would have to Declare immediately on them.

This is unlikely to occur with Greece, so I like Mistfit's idea of contacting them now. This will give us until 1830BC to trade with them. Since we acquired BW from FRA there may be nothing available to trade with the GRK for until we both learn something new. Since they started with BW they are hopefully beelining for IW. Once we get WRIT we should be able to trade WRIT for IW from the GRK before we have to declare war.

We currently have 5 warriors, I would bring them back closer to home and use them on mountains as scouts. We need to keep expanding our empire by making settlers. Looks like we can get a 6 turn warrior/settler factory out of a Size 4 Rome using the following sequence:

............Size.......Food......Shields
T1.........4............4...........7
T2.........4............8...........10......... build warrior
T3.....grow to 5....10..........9
T4......... 5........... 4........... 18
T5......... 5........... 8........... 27
T6.....grow to 6....10..........(38) 30...build settler - drop to 4
T7......... 4........... 4........... 7
T8......... 4........... 8........... 10......... build warrior
T9....grow to 5.....10..........9
T10........5...........4........... 18
T11........5...........8........... 27
T12...grow to 6.....10......... (38) 30...build settler - drop to 4
T13........4...........4........... 7
T14........4...........8..........10...........bui ld warrior
T15...grow to 5.....10......... 9
T16........5...........4..........18
T17........5...........8..........27
T18...grow to 6....10.........30...........build settler - drop to 4

We waste food & sheilds, but it keeps the city on a 4-6 cycle. This has us using the center tile 2/1, a mined wine hill 2/2, irrigated game 4/0, 2 mined BG 4/4 - and adding another mBG on growth at size 5 & size 6.

Warrior to Legionary will cost 40 gold ea to upgrade so we need to keep an eye on our cash as well. The minimum science gambit should help with this. We also need to keep pushing towards the Great Library.

We have 2 lux in our area. We need to get those hooked up as well. The 3rd lux (silks) are to our north and we may be in a race with the GRKs to secure that one.

Still working on fixing the computer. skip if needed please. Sorry guys.

Turn order
grs - Kicked off the party
conhead234 - Declared on the French
Mistfit - swap (until computer is fixed)
marconos - up
DJMGator13 - on deck

@marconos - let us know if you have any questions before playing.

@Mistfit - let us know when computer is fixed and I consider this a swap not a skip.

DJMGator13: excellent writeup!

Okay .. I got the save.

Will review production levels tonight and come up with a plan.

Current thought is Rome will continue to just produce archers until ready to switch to a settler factory.

Veil will complete barracks ... then a worker .. then warriors. (Worker to get more improvements done quicker)

SouthEastern warrior will explore Northward and then take up observation position East of the city.

Eastern warrior will move NE and take position in mountains there on sentry duty.

NE warrior will move across unexplored Nothern area and then take up sentry dutry in hills to the N.

I will not make contact with Greece as we do not have writing to trade with them. I will leave that up to the next person to take care of.

Reviewed things. No change will proceed with plan. Should have posted later today.

Attempted to upload the save and the service appears broken. WIll try again later today. Here is the turn log.

Turn Log

1) 2550bc -- Move warriors out of cities to be sentries on hills around cities.
2) 2510bc -- Rome produces Archer set to make another archer
worker finishes N BG send to game tile to chop forest.
send new archer to hills as sentry.
move outer warriors back through unexplored terrian.
Move SE warrior towards Greece to see area around them.
Greek hoplite due W of us moving N
3) 2470bc -- worker starts chopping forest. will finish on next players turn. Hoplite moves out of view.
4) 2430bc -- spot 2 french regular warriors heading towards rome. Begin collapsing troops to be able to fight them in the plains instead of the hills/mountains.
5) 2390bc -- Veil Finishes barracks begin work on worker. Will produce worker one turn after growth.
6) 2350bc -- Rome produces archer start another archer.
7) 2310bc -- troop movements -- Greek contacts us and offers pottery for 50 gold. Before accepting see if they have IW yet. They don't accept pottery offer for 50 gold.
8) 2270bc -- archers attack warriors just N of rome in plains. Both warriors defeated and lose 1 point of health. Change production in both cities to graneries. Makes 10 shields from forest chop beneficial. But new worker enroute to work the wines. Do we really want to do that. Wouldn't it be quicker to mine and road a BG square and then just road the wines later?
9) 2230bc -- troops moving back out on sentry duty.
10) 2190bc -- spot another French warrior coming in N of Rome. England, Russia and Babylon appear in our list have not seen any of their units yet. Good thing I'm all done. Someone else can decide if the order of contact if we want to make contact.

grs - Kicked off the party
conhead234 - Declared on the French
marconos - Set up the defence of the homeland
DJMGator13 - up
Mistfit - parts for puter here today ready after Gator

Good turns Marconos

Site is back up. Uploaded the save

here is the >>link<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_BC2190_01.sav) to the save.

Nicely played :goodjob:

Those early archers are coming in handy.

Official contact with FRA & GRK. No contact with RUS, ENG & BAB yet. Someone has sold contact with us to the other 3 civs, since we have not seen any of their troops.

In normal AW games you are allowed to open the diplomacy screen to check the status of the civs you are at war with, I'll post in the maintenance thread to make sure this is OK. Then we can check out FRA to see if they sold contact with us. GRK we can still contact up until we have to issue DoW.

We will declare war on GRK during my 10 turns, so does anyone have any preferences for contact order of the other 3? Or wait for them to contact us? We learn WRIT next turn so that should give us something to trade with, hopefully.

I won't try to play until tomorrow to give everyone a chance to review and comment.

marconos only played 9 turns. The first turn in the log was the hand-off turn. Should I take 11 turns to get us back on the 10 turn cycle with the score & upload page?

Yes please take the extra turn.

I must have missed the official contact with the Greek. When was that? Were we able to trade with them?

If you decide to initiate diplomacy with more than one opponent on the same turn, you may choose the order in which you do this. The order should be recorded in the team thread.

I say open diplo with all three at the same time so we can choose who we want next and give us some trading time with them in the meanwhile. We could look at what they know and how much more advanced they are then us and make the decision at that point. Or we might want to know where they are in regards to us as well before we choose. Wait for map making?

These are just my initial thoughts. Any suggestions team??


Edit: we could take the most advanced nation (or scientific) nation of the three and put them last on the list to be sure we can trade with them the longest

I wondered if I was doing the right number of turns. Well ... now I know. Everything seemed to start happening right at the end of my turn so I was happy to dump it off to the next person.

BTW: Tried to attach a screen shot to the message and couldn't figure it out. Can someone give me a clue?? (Ignore this ... I see it just shows the attached screen shot.)

2310BC GRK did contact us at that time. I purchased Pottery from them for 50 gold.

I think we should have 5 - 6 archers in reserve to take out the warrior here and there we are going to fight until we get IW.

The only thing I did that I wasn't confident in was generating that worker from Veil. I thought we would need it due to the cities that will start churning (someday ). Any thougths on how we are going to do workers.

I have looked at the starting city positions again and I think our next City should be at location E to get the benefit of the wheat there. Greece has a city VERY close to that and I believe it will be our best bet.

Greece has researched The Wheel 1st so I'm not sure when they are going to get IW. I think we are going to be in trouble there. I switched our research over to Library but I'm wondering if we should change that to IW or go for library quickly and trade it.

Let's get some cities out there.

What is the feeling of trying to launch an attack against the French homeland????

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ideas.JPG
Ok more ideas for who to go to war with next.

With the above information I would sugest the following:

1st up:

England: Reasons: we share the Alphabet and we can get Pottery from the Russians. Their UU is a boat so we wont have to worry about that seeings that we will prolly have very little Navy out there exploring in the short term.

2nd:
Russia: Reasons: Being third on our list we can hopefully take them out before the Cossack. It will be nice to have a scientific trade partner around for a bit.

3rd:
Babs: Reasons: Hopefully by the time we have to kick them off the planet we will have a better unit then their Bowman. Right now we do not have a good offensive unit. Again the scientific trate for 40 ish more turns we might gain some trade possibilities.

I wonder if we shouldn't try to gain as many contacts as possible right now and just keep putting them in the queue to go to war with in the future. We will have more trade possibilities for the near future. Only bad part is that it will be AW after a bit.

What do you all think?

We already have Pottery ... got that from the Greeks.

I would think we want the Russians 1st, let's not take the chance on the cossaks getting out there. The Babs should be later as their UU is good in early ages. The English should be whenever as their UU is irrelevant.

If we are going to go for the great libraray then we need to get contact with as many civs as possible. If not then maybe delaying is good. Not sure though. Does anyone know is we are on a continent or pangea. That could make a difference in our approach.

BTW: If we are going to start on the GL are we going to get masonry soon to start a prebuild on it. I think it's a bit late already though.

Ok Tech Update:

Computer operational
PTW installed and working properly

Tonight will be taken Installing CivIII and GOTM mods for other SG'S Then ready to resume play. Thanks for being patient.

@marconos - We need to go after one of the expansionist civ's next (Either Russia or England) in hopes to pick up Bronze Working before we close Diplo with them. I like the thought of keeping the Scientific civ's around for as long as possible to allow them to gain techs that we can trade for. So my vote stays with England first.

@ grs - conehead - gator what are your thoughts?

In my Turns I bought Bronze Working from the French. Do you mean Iron working.

Oops.. I forgot that. That changes things a bit. So the only 1st tier techs that we have yet to get are CB and Mason? Who do you think we should go to war with after the Greek? Do you think that we should contact them now or wait for them to contact us? Do we want contact now for trade possibilities or should we wait?

I can see getting rid of the expansioninst trait. I just really don't like the Russian Cossack UU. I read through the maintenance thread. If we make contact with Russia, England and Babylon all on the same turn I don't believe we have to pick which one we are going to go to war with until we actually have to. Am I reading that right? If so then I think we should wait on determining who is next. There may be some "determining" factors later on that can change our decision.

MB are you lurking around?

If we make contact with all three civs in the same session can we choose who to go to war with when thier turn comes or do we have to make the decision at the time of contact?

In the maintenance thread he indicated to record in team thread, I read this to be done on the same turn as contact.

As to order I think either RUS or ENG 1st. We don't need to be fighting bowmen and hoplites at the same time, so BABs are last. We definately want to hit RUS before cossacks. I was also thinking it would be good to delay attacking a SCI civ so we can trade and maybe take advantage of the MA free tech they get, but all 3 are SCI so that doesn't matter. There also may be a chance some of these 3 are off-continent, since we have not seen any scouts or units from them.

Based on that I see nothing wrong with Mistfits order of ENG, RUS then BAB.

EDIT: I think we need to go ahead and contact them since WRIT is due next turn. Lets trade for whatever we can get now.

MB are you lurking around?

If we make contact with all three civs in the same session can we choose who to go to war with when thier turn comes or do we have to make the decision at the time of contact?

You make the decision at the time you meet them by the order in which you talk to them. :)

Thanks for the clarification -

Based on that I see nothing wrong with Mistfits order of ENG, RUS then BAB

I'm fine with that. After all ... they are going to be elminated anyway right??

I will be on vacation from the 23 to the 31 so skip me if I come up.

Quick Summary: We learned/traded for MAS, WRIT, WHEEL & IW. Our Rome warrior/settler factory is online and working as planned. We are at war with FRA & GRK.

Preturn 2190BC
Use F4 to check out FRA - troubling find - FRA 3 cities, 71 gold, up MAS, WHEEL, CB, IW, WRIT, has contact with GER & AMR also - With all those techs I say we have been sold out by the FRA (imagine that)

GRK: 3 cities, 67 gold, up WHEEL - no contacts with others

I go ahead and contact the other 3 civs in the following order: ENG, RUS then BAB - (ENG first because they are not SCI and this allows us to trade with the 2 SCI civs the longest)

ENG: 3 cities, 95 gold, up MAS, WHEEL, CB, IW, WRIT and has contact with GER & AMR
RUS: 5 cities, 0 gold, up MAS, WHEEL, CB, IW, WRIT and has contact with GER & AMR
BAB: 3 cities, 0 gold, up MAS, WHEEL, CB, IW, WRIT and has contact with GER & AMR

ENG will sell us MAS for 52 gold & 2 gpt ( BAB & RUS wanted 3gpt) - I make the trade
GRK want MAS and our remaining 3gpt for WHEEL - I decline and wait for next turn when we can offer hopefully offer them WRIT

Our military is average with eveyone except RUS whom we are weak against.

Finally press enter

IBT - 2 FRA warriors advance / GRK demand we leave, we agree to
we learn WRIT set to LIT in 40 turns at 10% (no point in researching techs everyone else have)

Turn1 - 2150BC
Offer GRK MAS & WRIT they will give WHEEL & 60 gold - I accept - GRK have horses - we have horse 1 W of Veii
We can buy CB for 50 gold from BAB, ENG or RUS - none will sell IW - do not deal - if we get Glib we get these for free
Switch Veii to warrior ( will complete before the chop)
Rome grows to size 3 - needs an MP - set lux to 30%
Worker roads wine (I'd rathe mine first but we need the lux hookup)

IBT - FRA warriors advance

Turn2 - 2110BC
Veii warrior => archer
archer takes out leading FRA warrior (down 1hp no promo)
No one will sell us IW

IBT - FRA warrior does not attack our 2 man rcher stack

Turn3 - 2070BC
Minor troop moves - start irrigating the game tile

IBT - FRA warrior advances

Turn4 - 2030BC
archer takes out FRA warrior - no others in sight
Veii warrior arrives in Rome - Lux down to 10%

IBT - na

Turn5 - 1990BC
minor troop moves

IBT - GRK must have met the FRA - they are now up CB & IW on us like everyone else

Turn6 - 1950BC
Veii archer => worker
mm ROME so Granary completes next turn with growth in 2
minor troop moves
no one will sell us IW

IBT - road for wine is completed / FRA warrior comes into view

Turn7 - 1910BC
mm ROME back to irragted game - will grow to size 4 next turn - set to wealth for 1 turn
worker roads game / worker to BG
minor troop moves
no one will sell us IW
lux to 0%

IBT - BAB learn HBR

Turn8 - 1870BC
ROME is now size4 - mm to our +4 food +7 shields for our factory (took BG from Veii since hill is not mined yet)
GRK will sell IW for 79gold & 4gpt - since we have to issue DoW on them next turn I do the deal - will cost us 83gold for IW - everyone else is already annoyed with us so I'm not too worried about the rep hit

Yeah - we have iron E SE of Rome and the East tile is already roaded
position a vet warrior on mountain across a river from FRA warrior
Lux to 10% for ROME

IBT - Hoplite comes out of FRA border / FRA warrior forts on mt across river

Turn9 - 1830BC
I try to extort CB from GRK they refuse - so I issue DoW
archer into Rome - set lux to 0%
minor troop moves

IBT - GRK hoplite near FRA moves E / FRA warrior still forted

Turn10 - 1790BC
Rome warrior => settler
Veii worker => archer (need to switch to horse when road is completed)
2 workers to horses


IBT - FRA archer appears

Turn11 - 1750BC
Rome to size 5 - mm back to +4 food (factory looks like its working - settler in 3 growth in 3)
minor troop moves
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Order
Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC
Civ 6 - tba - 10AD
Civ 7 - tba - 330AD
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Assessment:
FRA: at war - 3 cities, 41 gold, up CB and knows GER & AMR
GRK at war - having a hissy fit and won't talk to us (this will change after a while)
ENG at peace - 5 cities, 44 gold, up CB and knows GER & AMR
RUS at peace - 6 cities, 0 gold, up CB and knows GER & AMR
BAB at peace - 4 cities, 0 gold, up HBR, CB and knows GER & AMR

Score - 125 in last place against known civs

Notes to next player
1) If we are going warrior to Legionary upgrade path do not hook up iron yet
2) Keep an eye on Rome for +4 food +7 sheilds and make sure a 2 sheild tile is available for growth turns
3) Change Veii build to horse when the road completes – we want horses over archers from now on
4) Be patient and fight a defensive battle with FRA & GRK - we have some good land to settle into
5) I've left the warriors out as scouts and kept the archers in close to home
6) FRA archer is approaching our NW warrior scout - we may want to backtrack the warrior until the archer is off mt or hill tile and near our archer

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/MistfitSG03_01.jpg

I'm only going to get two settlers out in my turn set..any sugestions as to placement?

And I got it

I'd probably go Site F, E then G to try to box in the GRKs.

My thoughts on the city placement would be locations G then location C. Thrird City would go at F.

City at location C would be a better to place on the hill ( would be 4 away not three through). That would leave the BG available and allow us to have a walled city on the hill. I believe in that location france will just keep killing themselves against it.

Location F would go with original plan of cutting off the "valley" area.

DJM Gator: I noticed that you generated another worked out of Veil. Is this to get land improvements quicker? I was thinking doing a third worker that early would hurt us by losing the productivity in Veil. Can you explain reasoning there? Just trying to get up to your guys levels in ability ;)

City at location C would be a better to place on the hill ( would be 4 away not three through). That would leave the BG available and allow us to have a walled city on the hill. I believe in that location france will just keep killing themselves against it.

We want to keep our rings tidey and in place at this piont. There is huge benefits with reduced corruption.

DJM Gator: I noticed that you generated another worked out of Veil. Is this to get land improvements quicker? I was thinking doing a third worker that early would hurt us by losing the productivity in Veil. Can you explain reasoning there? Just trying to get up to your guys levels in ability ;)

Yes, for the land improvements we need to do. We have a lot of roads and mining to do. By keeping all cities roaded they can share the lux instead of needing a MP. It also increases our commerce which adds to our income.

Not having enough workers in the game is another major obstacle to overcome when playing on the higher levels. I've usually use a 1 to 1.5 ratio of workers to cities, but I have seen some people at 2-3 workers per city or even higher.

That's what I thought. I have actually decreased my workers as I try to go to war quicker. That may be part of my problem. Thanks.

Ok here we go - Xenophobic...check...Gentleman Jack...check...Kids and Wife in bed...check...

Pre Turn
Everything looks good move the NW warrior S to draw in the troops
IBT
French and Greek move towards Rome from the north
Turn 1 (1725 BC)
Move troops around - not picking fights (not yet anyway)
IBT
Our workers have completed a road to bring Equinus to Rome (I presume this is a MB joke?)
Bab's building the Oracle
Turn 2 (1700BC)
Switch Veii to Chariot due in 7
IBT
Rome finishes Settler ---> Warrior in 2
Turn 3 (1675BC)
Start settler to city #3 at "F" spot
Move troops around to get the Greek and French out of the Mountains
Vet Warrior Kills French Reg Bow Flawlessly
IBT
Vet Warrior gets attacked by Vet French Warrior we lose 3 hp but win and we promote
Turn 4 (1650BC)
Troops movement
IBT
Lincoln opens diplo he offers Ceremonial Burial for alphabet - I accept
America Has 10 gold one Gemma and Knows the Germans has 3 extra cities
Rome finishes it's Warrior ---> Settler
Greek Vet Hoplite kills an archer Forted on a Mtn flawlessly and gets a promo
Lots of Greek Troops showing up
Turn 5 (1625BC)
Move around troops
Settle Antium Start on Rax Due in 7
Our Vet warrior dies attacking Reg greek Warrior on flat ground -2 hp (not good RNG yet)
IBT
Greek Reg warrior attacks Antium's Vet warrior and dies the other in the stack flees
Our people decide that I am such a great king that they decide to put in an underground sprinkler system at the cave so I can practice my putting
More Troop Movements More Greek Showing up
Turn 6 (1575BC)
MM rome for 2 til growth and 2 til settler
Dancing with the Greek
Abe knows HB and Myst - no deals
Everyone else knows Myst - Math - Maps - HB
Trade our map around for 14 gold Everyone is really ticked at us. Trading at all is going to be tough
Draw in our warriors towards the homeland
IBT
Veii finishes a Chariot --->Chariot in 7
Turn 8 (1550BC)
Vet Archer dies attacking Greek Elite Hoplite -3
Our mighty Elite Warrior dies flawlessly attacking the elite 2 hp Hopalong
Vet archer finishes him off and promotes
IBT
Rome finishes a settler ---> warrior
Turn 9 (1525BC)
Move settler towards 2nd location (had to waste 1 movement to wait for escort)
Move Chariot towards the action
IBT
Our Brave Warrior survives an attack from a Greek Archer with no harm
Turn 10 (1500BC)
Shuffle around units
Set the workers SE of Veii to mining Just started so I think this can be vetoed

To the Next Player:
Good luck (or better luck than mine)
We have
1 settler - Needs to move SE before settling
3 workers
5 Warriors
1 Archer left (sorry Guys)
1 Chariot
The greek have 2 warriors and 1 hoplite with in our borders
The Warrior that will pop from Rome needs to stay there for MP - I had to move one to Veii because of Hoplite approaching
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Screen_1.jpg

Turn order
grs - up
conhead234 - on Vacation
marconos - warming up
DJMGator13 - in the hole
Mistfit - Got kicked around a bit

Mistfit - Got kicked around a bit

Not too bad, you did good, just bad rng.

I'd really like to have HBR so we can start skirmishing and retreating to keep units alive. Looks like we can buy it from ENG, RUS or BAB for Wmap & 80 gold.

I looking forward to grs being able to show and tell us all about legionary, since they cost the same as horsemen, but are more powerful. I've not played many games as ROME so I haven't got to good a feel for Legionary. I think against GRK and FRA legionary will be fine. I'd like to get a few more cities up before we kick off our golden age though.

Speaking of which Greece is now in theirs with their Hoplite victory. Hopefully theirs will be mostly wasted with only a few cities.

I think once we get our first ring of cities we could probably go on the offensive.

Agreed, I have never played rome before But I've lurked both of grs's roman campaigns.

Sorry, I was quite inactive I know - got it now and will play it over the weekend. I will post some thoughts later today.

I did some checking around and saw that we could buy HBR as well. Question is do we want to spend all of our cash on it? I never have much luck with my horseman retreating. Is there a trick to make sure they retreat or just the luck of the roll? ( i know the won't retreat against other fast units )

One final point is how do we handle countries that threaten us and demand tribute to their so called great nations. If we say no since most are already annoyed with us we will end fighting a lot more nations at an earlier time period then we want.

Another problem that I see is we are way behind in techs and we haven't started a great library prebuild. If we don't do that soon we aren't going to get the GLIB. Any thoughts on how we are going to get that started with the GRK's pumping so many toops at us??

@grs - no problem, with your timezone difference it's understandable :)

@marconos - as far as demanding tribute goes I'm not exactly sure how that works, but I know one key factor is military strength. So as we continue to become stronger that threat should lessen.

On the Great Library, it will takes us 400 shields to build it. We can produce 13 legionary or horsemen with that same 400 sheild investment. Since we are playing the PTW version great leaders can still rush wonders. So I'm hoping as our legions and horsemen come online we will be able to generate a few great leaders. If we loss out on the GLibrary then we hope one of our neighbors build it and we just capture it.

I used to rarely build horsemen in my games until I played with akots in SGOTM2. You should give that a quick read, its linked in my sig. One advantage of the horsemen is their upgrade path of knights to cavalry. They also have the speed advantage of being able to get to the front twice as fast as swords. In our game I think we will probably do a mixture of horses and legions, due to the power of the legions.

If an opponent builds the Great Library we can't get it from them. We can't keep a city that has non-roman citizens in it. So if we don't get it we don't. I totally forgot about the Great Leader rush. It ususally take me forever to get a GLeader that I don't really count on them. Course then I don't play this type of variant normally ;).

I review that horseman link you gave some time today.

I'm trying an emporer game on my own and just using some of the starigies I have already gleaned from you guys I am not just winning but dominating the computer. What a difference a couple of little changes make.

Good point - I'm playing in 3 SGs that have different variants, so I get confused sometimes. :crazyeye:

We can't afford to switch ROME to a wonder because we need more cities. Veii is currently only 3spt so that will be 133 turns. Unfortunately, I think the only way we will get the GLibrary is with a leader.

AMER is only up 2 of the 4 techs that everyone else has so if we can get one of the 2 that AMR does not have we might be able to trade for one of the others. If we are going to try to build the GLibrary we want to hold onto to LIT for several turns to give us a head start on building it, butthis will cost us trading ability and we may get an extortion demand for it.

Settling: current settler will settle E - as proposed. B and C are should be next. Though we waste a BG the lower curruption will be worth it. I would not build any charriots! We will have to upgrade them 2 times before they become usefull and as long as we don't have the Great Library - which I highly doubt we get, if we don't start it very soon.

If we really want to get a shot at it we could do as follows:

* switch from charriot to a prebuild asap
* use the next settler to found the town below, to let Veii get two more bg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-misfit-gl_in_veii.jpg

This is risky so feedback is highly apreciated. I will not play before tomorrow about the same time anyways.

I think Veii can switch to Pyramid as a prebuild right away. Since Rome is making a warrior in advance of the settler the escort is already set.

Your red dot map is good, but if we go 1 tile S from the hill we gain the river defense bonus,we allow the fish tile to come into the culturally expanded radius and the BGs are still available for Veii. Both locations are RCP6 so either is fine. Your dot actually gets us a little closer to that wheat and the other spices

BTW - I've just started reading the grs1 Legions SG.

Since both locations are at ring 6 I prefer GRS's location. The fish tile really doesn't by us anything. I believe the hill gives us a better defense then the river. As well by settling on the river it will take fewer worker turns to get the town up and runing. I agree on the chariots the cost more then archers and don't give much benefit.

As for the GLib I don't think we have a shot at it unless we get a GLead to rush it. I vote that we do not prebuild it as we really need more troops. Greece is very close and will be pumping tons of troops at us. We need defense.

Another Thought: After Veil complete it's current unit do we want to generate another work. Rome is going to be spitting out settlers left and right and we are going to have to find some way to build workers to keep up with them. Could the new city on the hill be a worker factory utilizing the Game tile?

Here's a quick RCP6 ring. I put grs's city as Site H and indicated only one more site near the cow. We can actually grab the fish with a second RCP6 city, so I think the hill is the better site.

Our eastern and northeastern expansion is hindered by the GRK. Please make suggestions for additional RCP6 sites (either on the map or just let me know where).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mistfit1500BC_Dot.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ring_mistfit.jpg

These are my initail thoughts on city placement.
After I drew it I changed my mind on City "P" I think it should go one south of where the dot is. So it can be on the coast. I think we will nedd a couple of good cities to pump out a Navy in the later game.
Question: is the tile NE of "O" fresh water?
Also city "N" could go where either of the question marks are or we could do 2 cities by placing one on the "N" and one on the horses.
City "M" of course will have to come after we take Thermoply

Question: is the tile NE of "O" fresh water?

No, its coastal (only 1 food).

Any thoughts on locations?

If we really want to get a shot at it we could do as follows:

* switch from charriot to a prebuild asap
* use the next settler to found the town below, to let Veii get two more bg

I like the idea of being risky. I think it will help us in the end. Trading is pretty tough out there right now because everyone is ticked at us. If we could get lucky enough to pull the GL I think this game will get much easier.

Any thoughts on locations?

Well your dotmap already gave us locations for the next few dozen cities :)

I'd say:
E - already in place
H - for expanding Veii
B,C...but we will have to see how the game develops. No point in planing more cities ahead.

E- will be in place your 1st or 2nd turn

I guess my question about locations was whether or you agreed with my placement of the cities.

Have fun with your turns!

Been reading .... helping a friend build a house on weekends so only going to be on at night.

The ideas look good. City C will be tough as that is the direction the stinking French troops are coming from.

We have to try for the GL we are going to get creamed without it. Unless you guys are REALLY good. I'm trying some Emporer games in my spare time to try out some stragies. I did one where I basically extort what I need from my opponents. It works but we can't do that here. Unless we get the GL we are always going to be behind on techs. Will just have to use our units smarter.

In summary start on the GL ... if things get tough and we need the troops then kill it and bring on the minions!!!

I guess my question about locations was whether or you agreed with my placement of the cities.
My answer may have sounded harsh, but it should not. I just wanted to point out, that while I agree, it is too soon to say that much about further city placement. Our first prio on cities should be to fill our 6 ring as we already agreed. The question whether your city N will be where you placed it or rather on the hill or horse is not that important now.

I will play my turns tonight (which is a good 12 hours from now), sorry for the delay.

PreTurn: Veii switched to palatium
IBT: Greek warrior kills our warrior; Rome warrior-settler
1475BC: warrior kills Greek warrior
IBT: Greek hoplite nears Veii
1450BC: Cumae founded
IBT: greek archer dies attacking Antium
1425BC: warrior redlines hoplite, charriot kills it; archer kills warrior near Antium
IBT: Joan demands 125gold + 1gpt for peace - though we can't take it, it shows us our position is not good; greek archer dies to our warrior near Thermopylae; Antium armamentarium-warrior; Enland starts The Colossus
1400BC: movement
IBT: French archer nears Rome; Rome settler-warrior
1375BC: movement
IBT: an American scout nears
1350BC: warrior dies to French archer, charriot kills it
IBT: Rome warrior-settler; Cumae warrior-worker; Russian scout spotted
1325BC: movement
IBT: nothing
1300BC: elite archer kills warrior near Thermopylae; we have to declare on the British
IBT: Antium warrior-warrior
1275BC: Neapolis founded
IBT: Greeks demand 40 gold for peace; Americans start the Pyramids
1250BC: movement

our lands:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-misfit-1250bc.jpg

We should build a few more warriors and then connect the iron. Shut down research or leave it at minimum after literature. Don't attack Greek cities without legions. Good luck!

EDIT: grs, did you upload the save thru the maintenance page or did you just attach it. I did not see it on the Team scoring page. Let us know if we need to upload it to that page.


Looks good grs.

How many warrior should we have before connecting the iron. At 40gold ea for the upgrade we could upgrade 10, which would be right about the end of Marconos' round.

You are currently mining where Site C was pictured but that tile is a BG. Should we combine Sites B&C and build on the river hill between the two sites? It is still a RCP3 location. How many cities do you forsee us having before going on the offensive?

@Macronos - look over the save and post any questions before playing. You should not have to declare on anyone during your turn.

Also looks like lux could come down to 10%, giving us a little more gpt.

EDIT: grs, did you upload the save thru the maintenance page or did you just attach it. I did not see it on the Team scoring page. Let us know if we need to upload it to that page.
corrected that


How many warrior should we have before connecting the iron. At 40gold ea for the upgrade we could upgrade 10, which would be right about the end of Marconos' round.
I think it could be even more, because we wont do any research. On the other hand it will make us a sitting duck as we wont be able to attack anyone. Waiting much more than another 10 turns seem very long. I'd wait till after macronoes turns with that deceision.
You are currently mining where Site C was pictured but that tile is a BG. Should we combine Sites B&C and build on the river hill between the two sites?
:wallbash: That's just out of stupidity, we could at best use your solution to my mistake :wallbash: At least we don't waste the bg. In hindsight it might even be better that way, but I have to admit that this was not my intention.
It is still a RCP3 location. How many cities do you forsee us having before going on the offensive?
8-10

@macronos: you could also try to use our elite archer for a bit of leader fishing if you leave him on a mountain and try to snipe warriors or archers with him - I didn't have any luck yet.

Good turns grs -

Turn order
grs - done
conhead234 - on Vacation
marconos - up
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -

Okay I got it.

2 cities will be produced this turn. The first one is going to go at GRS's strategic spot of the combined B&C locations. The second one will go at the adjusted P location. This is to get the lux connected up to hopefully remove the need for the lux slider in the short term.

I will go leader fishing with the elite archer. Cumae will start a warrior after the worker is done.

I will begin connecting up the Iron 1/2 way through my turn. It will finish within a couple of turns of the next player.

GRS ... thanks for pushing the bad guys back. Looks like I might get two turns of peace.

If I am lucky enough to get a GL I will send him immediately to build the GLib somewhere. Anyone have any Idea of where they want it placed? Cumae looks good as their production is so low at this point and that would push our national boundaries out more.

I will get my turn played tonight.

<EDIT>
One question: What am I do if someone demands tribute? We don't want to go to war against more then we have to do we???

If they are far away or next on the list anyways don't give in. We would just profit from the war happiness.

Go get-em marconos !!

Cumae looks good to me as well.

File uploaded:

2nd try of this ... stupid me did the 1st one online and hit the wrong key ...


1250bc. Dropped lux to 10%

IBT: Scouts from Russia and American wander around. Decide to ignore them.
Greek archer approaches.

1) 1225bc Romes: settler -> warrior
elite archer kills greek archer no GL
chariot N see's two approaching French archers. Decide to shadow them.
begin road to connect up new city.
IBT: England completes the oracle.
Babylon begins the pyramids.

2) 1200bc mm Rome and Antium to maximize improved tile use.
Chariot still following archers.

3) 1175bc Rome warrior ->settler
Antium warrior->warrior
Pompeii founded -- start barracks
Greece Themopyle send hoplite SE
Bably has virtual all techs, america 3 ahead, russian 4 ahead.
will NOT contact Germany.
decide to not buy techs .. saving money for legions

4) 1150bc Neapolis warrior->warrior
American start building colossus
French archer in N move troops to intercpt at best ground for us.
IBT: French archer attacks chariot and dies. Chariot prompted to elite.

5) 1125bc Road to pompeii connected begin road on iron

6) 1100bc Antium warrior->worker
Cumae warrior->warrior
Germany build colossus
lux to 20% for veii
2 greek hoplite closing in on East border
IBT: England offers peace for 220 gold .. tempted but decline.
Frenach archer kill our warrior in mountains.

7) 1075bc Rome: settler->warrior
mm Cumae and Pompeii to increace production.
Neapolis warrior->barracks (didn't know didn't have on there)
IBT: Babylong offers territory map for ours plus 40 gold. Decline.
France settler coming in from N.
Greek horseman from east.

8) 1050bc warrior dies on hoplite only causing 1 dmg
elite archer finishes him off. Loses 2 life
mm Veii, Pompeii and Rome to maximize production
troops on E front falling back to find better position to attack from. hopefully will have legions before we have to attack.
IBT: Greece has 2 archers and horseman incoming.
France has new city 2 spearmen and 2 archers incoming.

9) 1025bc Rome warrior->settler
Antium worker->warrior
Destroy new French City with chariot. Move chariot to hill for defense. Move warrior up with chariot as defense.
IBT: French archers kill 2 warriors both archers redlines.

10) 1000bc Lit compelte change to mathematics. Did not trade it.
Chariot kills redlined french archer.
Pisa founded .. start barracks
mm Rome and Veii to get settler in 3 turns.
Veii change to G Library.

What we have
5 workers, 1 chariot, 8 warriors, 1 archer.

Incoming
French Spearman and ???. Also redlined archer. Greece has 1 hoplite in town. Have 2 warriors ready to greet hiim in plains OR fortify city if he stays in hills. Greece has 2 other archers farther out that should not get in till after we have legions. We have to go after Greece soon as they are putting a lot of pressure on our Eastern front. So far able to hold own against France.
So far NO english troops incoming or encountered during turns.

Thoughts for next person:
Kill hoplite and redlined archer.
Get those legions.
Next city should go S of Antium IMHO of course.
I would like to city 1 legion in each city as a moving defense. Interior cities could be ignored.
Sourthernmost worker all set to road in Pisa and then connect up spices.

Good Job! took a city with one Chariot..balls man...big balls. One quick noteL before you hit print screen get the grid overlay on the map (Ctrl-G) it makes it easier to look at and plan. Is that another French settler pair up by the chariot?

Turn order
grs - done
conhead234 - on Vacation
marconos - done
DJMGator13 - up
Mistfit -

I believe that we will have to Declare on the Russian in Gators turns. (800BC)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ring_mistfit1.jpg
I think that D should be next to finish up the 3 ring then clockwise starting with I.

If you have not guessed by now I enjoy doing dot maps :D

Nicely done :goodjob:

I quickly reviewed the save file. Looks like during my turns I get to increase our military units and set up Mistfit for some :ar15:. We only have 8 warriors and some of those are regulars vrs vetrans. We have a hoplite, 2 GRK archers, a FRA archer & spear moving towards our cities. Looks like a defensive turnset for me. The iron will be hooked up at the start of my 2nd turn.

Looks like I'll get 2 settlers, one early one late, Site N looks good to claim the cow with the first settler. EDIT: cross posted with Mistfits dotmap - will go for site N. Where for the second? Site D completes our RCP3 but would put attacking units on mountains and have limited food, although it would have good shields.

It's a good thing this is an AW game or I would feel bad about always getting us into a new war during my turns. :lol: I will have declared on 2 of our 4 enemies.

@grs - is it worthwhile to upgrade the 4 "regular" warriors to legions? At 3/3/1 they can probably promote up relatively easy. I think it is especially considering our current situation of 5 inbound hostiles.

I won't play till either late tonight or probably tomorrow AM.

I don't believe that is another settler pair. I think that is a spearman and archer.

As for attacking the villiage it only had one spearman and no defensive area. Figured what they hey and it worked.

I would say definetly upgrade the regular warriors. Just use them to pick off some archers. There seem to be plenty of them incomingI I was up to 11 warriors at one point and those guys are dropping like flies. Man are they worthless, so get em upgraded.

Sorry about the hoplite in town but there were just too many guys coming in and not enough people to deal with them. ... well deal with them and live. Right now trading 1 warrior + injuries on another to take out 1 hoplite. Not good.

I would NOT use city location D. It will be too hard to make the city be much of anything. I would say locations N and O for our next couple of cities. Easier to manage as they don't need any defense way in the back .... unless of course england bring in ships.

That dang chariot and archer were my only good units on my turn.

BTW: I will be out of town Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Might be able to check the message boards but no game time :(

t's a good thing this is an AW game or I would feel bad about always getting us into a new war during my turns. I will have declared on 2 of our 4 enemies
Somebody has to do it. I'm just glad it's not me!!! ;)

What are we going to do about the trade situation? Should we upgrade our warriors and they trade everything we have left. I had 4 fights with elite units and won all of them. Around 12 more for a GL so we have a chance at the library.

I think Site I may be a good second city. This will claim the iron, which I think ENG is short of, and allow us to battle attacking ENG units on plains. FRA could still use the hill, depending on their angle of attack.

Once we get in a good military status we may want to build a RCP9 "bait" city out in the desert to attract the ENG & FRA offensive units. Then they get no defensive bonuses.

I think the I location would be great. I think the I location should be our next city to try and keep England from getting any iron at all. Course it shouldn't be to hard to take it back later.

As for fighting the French the best place I found is 1 pos NW of City D location. You are in hills across a river and the French will attack you there. If you can set a good defensive unit there they may keep attacking him to our great advantage.

If I am correct it doesn't matter where they are attacking from it where we are defending from correct?

If I am correct it doesn't matter where they are attacking from it where we are defending from correct?

Yes and IIRC we get both defensive bonuses (1 for them attacking across the river and 1 for us being on the hill).

I have no problem with the order of Site I then Site N.

EDIT: Thoughts on trading LIT. We should be able to get several (or all) techs for LIT, but currently it appears we are the only ones with it. If we get the GLib we don't lose anything by not trading it. If we don't get it we could be way behind with nothing to trade with.

Also it appears the GER will be on the list after AMR. Should we go ahead and contact them and see what they have to offer.

I would say go ahead and contact Germany. It won't make any difference when we have to declare war on them.

As for trading LIT. I tried a game where I waited a few turns before and then boom lost it as the computer researched it and traded it around. I would say wait about 5 turns and see if you get a GL .. you are going to fight some arent you ;) and then trade it around if you haven't yet. Any thoughts on that?

my thoughts:

* don't trade literature - wait for the GL - if you trade literature a wonder cascade might hit us
* I'd settle I, N, O (in that order)
* contact the Germans - no risk here
* upgrade all warriors - as we are militaristic promotions come quite fast - we should avoid more regulars if possible though

@grs - what is your time zone there? I'm EST. I was looking up Wuppertal and saw pictures of the Schwebeban. Are all the train cars orange & blue? That is the UF Gators team colors.

all sounds good here - good luck on your turns gator

Time zone is CET - that's GMT+1 (like in all of Germany).
Orange and blue are the colors of most of the trains, but some historical which is dark red and some that are colored in some sponsor's color. The busses here are orange/blue, too.

I just made the connection DJMGator. Florida Gators ... way back when I was in High School our band marched in the Gator Bowl parade and played in the half time show of the Gator Bowl. The game was the Clemson Tigers -vs- Stanford. Whew ... that was in high school a long long time ago ;)

Just like a box of Cracker Jacks there is a prize ;) near the bottom of my post.

Preturn - 1000BC
dial up GER - 6 cities, 7 gold, up MYST, MapM, HBR, down LIT
GRK: 7 cities, up MYST, MATH, PHIL, COL, MapM, HBR
ENG: 7 cities, up MYST, MATH, PHIL, COL, MapM, HBR
RUS: 6 cities, up MYST, MATH, MapM, HBR
AMR: 7 cities up MYST, MapM, HBR
ENG: 7 cities, up MYST, MATH, PHIL, COL, MapM, HBR
BAB: 6 cities, up MYST, MATH, PHIL, COL, MapM, HBR
FRA: 6 cities, up MYST, MATH, PHIL, COL, MapM, HBR
Good no one we know have LIT - hopefully they are working on REP & POLY

wake rWarrior send W to Cumae / wake rWarrior in Rome send N NW then forts (GRK hoplite can cut off access to an undefended Pompeii) / wake rWarrior in Cumae send to Rome

IBT - GRK hoplite moved SW (1 N of Rome) / FRA archer& spear advance / GRK archer pair SW

Turn1 - 975BC
Cumae warrior => warrior
Pompeii barracks => warrior
eChairot S attack SE to redlined FRA archer (vic -1hp no promo)
minor troop moves - have 5 warriors in Rome ready to upgrade next turn

IBT - GRK hoplite moved NE to hill / GRK archer pair W they are 1 E of Cumae with a GRH horse on the forest tile / FRA archer & spear advance

Turn2 - 950BC
our iron is hooked up - no more warriors
Antium warrior => Legion
Neapolis barracks => Legion
mm Veii w/Rome to get some extra shields for Glib in 38 vrs 51
lux to 30%
upgrade 7 warriors to Legions
eArcher takes out GRK rArcher (-1hp no promo)

IBT - GRK rArcher takes out vWarrior = GRK rHorse takes out eArcher / ENG & FRA advance from the NW

Turn3 - 925BC
Rome settler => legion (factory is messed up since we can no longer make warriors - could do a spear in 3 but legion is in 5)
vLegion flawlessly takes out that damn hoplite (no promo) - we enter our GA
vLegion takes out GRK archer outside Cumae
move settler & 3 legions to Pompeii

IBT - 2 FRA archers near Neap. / ENG warrior & FRA spear N N NE of Rome

Turn4 - 900BC
Pompeii warrior => Legion
change Neapolis to archer & rush it - have 2 FRA archers moving in

IBT - GRK horse runs away / FRA archers advance to Neap. / FRA rebuilds on prior ruins (must be a future resource there)

Turn5 - 875BC
Cumae warrior => barracks
Neapolis archer => legion
vArcher takes out first FRA archer / vLegion takes out ENG warrior

IBT - FRA archer takes out a rWarrior / GRK archer advances / ENG warrior advances
Bad news - FRA, GRK, BAB, GER & ENG now have LIT

Turn6 - 850BC
Go ahead and trade LIT to AMR & RUS before the others do - since we have to declare on RUS in 800BC
TRADE: LIT, Wmap & 100gold to AMR for MYST, HBR & PHIL
TRADE: LIT, Wmap & 18gold to RUS for MATH (they would not trade MapM so I asked for MATH)
We are 30 turns from Glibrary hopefully tht is enough of a head start
set sci to POLY @40% in 22 turns making +5gpt - our treasury is 4 gold after the trades

eChariot dies attacking an ENG rWarrior - a vLegion cleans up and promos to elite
rLegion took out FRA archer near Neap. / settler w/2 Legion arrives at Site I / small stack of legions advance on Thermo

IBT - RUS demands Tmap & 4gold - I tell Cathy she smells like a horse & to go back to the stables - surprisingly no DoW
Popup that ENG, RUS & BAB are building Glib (F7 confirms only these 3 - they are also still building their prior Wonders so hopefully these are new starts and not switches from prebuilds)
Someone learned CURR & CONST - they have been traded around

Turn7 - 825BC
Rome Legion => settler
Antium Legion => Legion
settler founds Ravenna set to barracks (in 10 thanks to GA)
rLegion takes out FRA spear - promos to vet
postion troops

IBT - ENG sends 6 warriors towards Ravenna (5 are reg 1 is conscript) / GRK & AMR start on Glib

Turn8 - 800BC
Tell Cathy her ale tastes like horse urine & issue DoW
TRADE: Wmap & 15gold to GER for Tmap - why not, everyone is annoyed with us might as well get something while we can
vLegion takes out GRK horse / rLegion dies attacking a GRK archer
troops advance on Thermo & Avignon
lux to 20%

IBT - 6 ENG warrior now 1 W of Ravenna / redlined GRK archer backs up and another GRK archer comes out of Thermo
GER now building Glib also

Turn9 - 775BC
Cumae barracks => legion
lux back to 30%
eLegion attacks rSpear in Avignon - we win no promo - city autorazes
rLegion attacks ENG rWarrior - we win (-1hp promos to vet)
rLegion attacks ENG rWarrior - we win (-1hp no promos)

Battle at Thermo
vLegion vrs rHoplite - we win (-3hp no promo)
eLegion vrs rHoplite - we win (-4hp no promo) - Thermo autorazes
rLegion vrs rArcher - we win (-1hp promos to vet)
vLegion vrs rArcher - we win (no promo)

IBT - 3 ENG warriors attack all die - our vLegion promos to elite

Turn10 - 750BC
Rome settler => legion
reposition Thermo attack force to 1 tile - did not move 1/5 elite Legion to start his healing
our 4/5 eLegion takes out last of the 6 ENG warriors & promos - we have a Great Leader :banana:


Notes to next player
1) I started Trajan back towards Popmpeii - with its 3 moves it should be able to rush Glib next turn there or in Rome the following turn, since Pompeii is about to complete a legion
2) Need to heal up GRK attack squad before advancing
3) We started our GA on Turn 3 so it should last 13 more turns - so keep pumping out Legions
4) I turned off research - POLY already known by more than 2 civs so we will get it from Glib - no more research until we lose the Glibrary effect
5) We need a unit in Veii for MP so we can turn down lux - I had too much incoming to leave any behind
6) I started rotating Legion then settler from Rome - after current legion you may be able to go settler-settler-legion depending on the size of Rome
7) I've started a settler to Site N
8) I've opened up our Eastern side for cities now that Thermo is gone
9) We are now "Average" or "Strong" against everyone

Our Eastern Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/MistfitSG03_02.jpg

Our Western Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/MistfitSG03_03.jpg

Awesome, awesome awesome .... world domination here we come!!!!!

Excellent turn.

I just made the connection DJMGator. Florida Gators ... way back when I was in High School our band marched in the Gator Bowl parade and played in the half time show of the Gator Bowl. The game was the Clemson Tigers -vs- Stanford. Whew ... that was in high school a long long time ago ;)

What's funny about the Gator Bowl is that it is in Jacksonville (the Jags home stadium now) and the Gators play at Florida Field aka The Swamp in Gainesville. But they still hold the FL - GA game there ever year. I've had season tickets since 1983 when I was in school there.

Our starting guard in basketball is from Saginaw, MI, Anthony Roberson. Only player UF ever recruited (or landed is probably a truer statement) out of MI for basketball.

Please let us think a moment before rushing the GL with the leader. I would really like to have a look at the save tonight (in about 12 hours) before we continue.

No problems here with waiting.

Great turns Gator! - What is the min. size you would take Rome down to for settlers? 4?

Turn order
grs -
conhead234 - on Vacation
marconos -
DJMGator13 - done
Mistfit - up after grs can look at save

Yeah, I would keep Rome at or above 4. It's growing every 3 turns with +4food. The Legions are taking 3 or 5 turns based on the size of Rome. At Size 6 (I think) Rome had 10+ shield and can create a legion in 3 turns.

Once Rome gets above size 6 the granary requires more food for growth.

@grs & team - Several other civs are building more than 1 wonder at the same time. So I think we are way ahead on the GLib build. We are currently down about 5 techs again, but will get them all with the GLib.

Techs we will get immediately:

Code of Laws
Map Making
Currency
Construction

Philosophy is only known by Greece

Side note: The only team microbe is behind or equal to us in years and ahead of us by score for teams doing the variant. Keep up the good work!
10 Team microbe 750 BC - Score 234
11 Team Mistfit 750 BC - Score 226

Sorry, this should not sound like I am the one who's remarks have to waited for...anyways here are my thoughts.

Techs we will get immediately:

Code of Laws
Map Making
Currency
Construction

Philosophy is only known by Greece


That's what I wanted to check. But it's not Philosophy we want (we already have it), but Polytheism and Polytheism is known at least by Greece; Babylon and America, so we will jump to the middle ages and may even get more techs. My advice: switch Veii to palatium move the leader to Neapolis (I would chose it to claim the coastal area and to expand our territory) and rush the GL there when he arrives. After entering the middle ages switch Veii back to a wonder.

Since this is PTW, we will probably get Feudalism from the GL, too. Greeks and Babylon are scientific and we know they are in the middle ages. In PTW scientific civs always get the same free tech and it's feudalism in the middle ages. We can then switch Veii to Sun Tzus - which would be awesome for us. As an alternative we could switch to the Pyramids, but I don't think it will be long till the AI gets it. Hopefully we will get monarchy too and can revolt as soon as our GA ends.

Meanwhile we can collect cash by leaving research off. I really hope this all was not already clear and I just caused waiting for nothing...any better idea?

Sounds good to me. Gleader should be able to reach Neap. in 2 turns.

Fighting with the legions was fun. We need to keep them coming and continue to send them out in attack groups of 4-5. Nice thing is we do not have to leave any behind as MP in captured cities. We will also need some horses or better some knights to pick off the settlers later. We also need to keep pumping out settlers and claiming all the land we can for the domination limit. With all the open space we may need to be looking at a conquest victory.

Don't worry about our score. Unless we are going for a double win. One award is for highest Jason, the other is for fastest (not highest) variant finish. If we can win fast enough (pre1000AD) we might be able to capture both. But there is a long way to go first.

Sounds good to me... Veii to Palatium and then Sun Tzu leader to Neapolis for to get learned... Pump out settlers and do some :hammer:

@grs - I prefer to get a concensus before going on with a big decision like use of a GL. (and I couldn't get it picked up before now anyway)

Official "I Got It"

I will prolly post in the Morning unless I need help or sugestions during my turns. I'm at home and connected up at 21.6 :vomit:

sheesh miss one day and tons of discussion!!!

I like GRS thinking on the GL rush in another city and save the prebuild for another wonder. Who knows .. couple more GL and we could go for a cultural victory (not)

Are we going to keep many troops back in the homeland for defense or just keep sending out greeting parties to play with the neighboors? I like the idea of running fast and hard. If we keep the pressure up on them we don't have to worry too much about defense. Especially if we can keep producing at least 1 legion / turn. With that type of production we can really crush our opponents.

Not to think to far ahead ... at what point do we switch off of legions and go to knights? Or don't we? My only concern is it's going to take awhile to get our troops anywhere. What do you guys think about building road down our main troop movement paths and having a main line that we run troops down? Thoughts?

Another concern I have is if everyone is jumping into the middle ages are we going to start seeing barbarian upriings. Do we need to do anything special to handle those? As well do we really want feudalism as we are going to lose our legions to Midevil Infranty? Thoughts?

Misfit --- I won't be able to play turns this weekend Sat, Sun. --- please don't skip me ... I would prefer a swap turns with someone if my turn comes up.

It looks like it is going good, I will be back on Aug 1st

Edit:

PreTurn:

Everything looks good...as expected
Move Legion towards Veii for MP

IBT

Troop movement...Time for :hammer:
Pisae Rax to Warrior in 5
The French are building the GL

Turn 1 (730BC)
See an Archer we can move to Veii this turn
Move Legion N to cut off advancing French troops
Move Legions around to heal fort some in hopes to get attacked
Move others to set trap
Aren't we at war with Russia? Seems strange that they have a scout wandering about in our territory. Can they pilliage or steal workers in PTW? well I guess I'll find out in a min.
Turn down lux slider 10% to save Gold. Hopefully be able to do more when Condiments are hooked

IBT
Traps seem to work - units moving in
Antium Legion to Legion
Pompeii (no Volcano) Legion to Legion
Russian Scout moves away

Turn 2 (710BC)
Position troops
Kill one French Bow flawlessly
Move GL in to Neapolis
Switch Veii to Palatium as a prebuild which I just now figure out is the Palace done in 10

IBT
A Reg Horse Kills our forted Legion in Cumae takes the city and 5 gold...grrr... I thought RNG might be better this round

Turn 3 (690BC)
Take Back Cumae with Legion -1hp
I decide to wait 1 turn for the Legion to finish before popping the GL

IBT
Greek Galley drops off a horse
Rome Legion to Settler MM to get growth in three Settler in 3 had to use an unimproved grass
Neapolis Legion to GL Due in 100 (or 1 with Gators help)
American Warrior shows up NE of Neapolis

Turn 4 (670BC)
Use Trajan to Hurry Production of GL
vLegion kills rArcher (barely) redlined
vLegion dies attacking a rWarrior (greek)
-1hpvLegion kills 1hprWarrior redlined no promo
Finally get wounded Legions into Antium for healing (kept them in Mtns for safety)

IBT
Greek horse attacks Veii across river and dies archer -1hp
Gl is built in Neapolis
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/killer_GL.JPG
Neapolis Gl to Legion
Pisae Warrior to Legion

Turn 5 (650BC)
Upgrade Warrior to Legion for 40 gold we now make 37gpt
Turn down lux to 10% now that Condiments are hooked

IBT
We learn Code of Laws
We learn Map Making
Set our sages to Republic in infinite amount of turns or at least until two civs know it
We learn Currency
We learn Construction
We Jump to the Mid Ages
Suprise Suprise we learn Feudalism
We learn Engineering
Babylon Galley shows up to the NE of Neapolis
Our Borders Expand in Neapolis

Turn 6 (630BC)
Switch Veii to Sun Tzu due in 41
Move settler further north
move a few troops

IBT
Rome Settler to Legion
Antium Legion to Legion
Ravenna Rax to Warrior
Germans building the Great Light
Germany builds the Colossus in Berlin (possible for a first ring city for the FP or Palace if we move it)
Americans building the Great Light
French Swords show up

Turn 7 (610BC)
Kill a RSpear Greek with vLegion no promo -2 hp
Loose a vLegion attacking a rArcher French he's redlined
Head new Settler South -
Movement much nicer with Engineering
Crank Lux slider up to 20% to keep Veii from riots (Sun Tzu due in 33 at size 6)

IBT
The Russian's pull in the Germans to declare war on us (oh well...)
The French plop another city 2 spots away from where I was putting our next city. I'll have to wait and take the city before settling
Pompeii Legion to Legion
English are building the Pyramids
Russians too

Turn 8 (BC)
vLegion murders a reg English rSpear -1hp no promo
Elite Legion kills a rSpear Enghish in Newcastle -2 hp
New Cestle is taken and razed 0 gold
Wait a min. It lets me plunk Down a town 2 away from the French town starting with Be (the rest is covered by the sword)
Settle Hispalis start a Rax
Move Legion out of Pompeii to draw French archer off of hill

IBT
It works Frenchie archer heads towards Pompeii
English drop a spear and Settler out of a boat new old New Castle

Turn 9 (570BC)
Attack a rHoplite on our Iron with a vLegion dies redlines Hoppie
Kill 1 hp rHoplite with vLegion -1hp
MM Rome to grow in 2 Legion in 2
IBT
A town called Eridu Shows up N of us
The English Settle Oxford SW of New Castle Site

Turn 10 (550BC)
Kill rSpear English in Oxford with vLegion no promo -2 hp
Take and Raze Oxford 0 gold
eLegion takes out 1hp Archer on Mtn -3hp
Cover him with vLegion

Hand Down Report:
I left you pretty much as I found the turns - Injured units that need healing all over
There is a settler in Antium of the spot S - S but I need an escort, the only thing available is a 1hp Legion there
A Legion will finish next turn in Antium that can be escort
Lots of troops coming in from all over
2 rSwords 1S of Hispalis - French
1 rSpear N - NE of Ravenna - French
1 rBow NW - W of Ravenna - English
1 rWarrior NW - NW of Pisae American (right next to our workers)
I have a Legion 1 N of Pisae to keep the Warrior in line
We need more workers
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ourlands.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/zoomed_ourlands.jpg
I Love Rubble

A couple of thoughts:

I think we can set up our Forbidden Palace now in one of our ring 3 cities and plan to move our palace to somewhere new with a leader.

If we do I think we should be looking for a good spot for at least one settler factory. Without the ability to keep cities we will need to pump settlers for the rest of the game

Well Nothing great to report...<snip>...germans declared on us (MA with Russia)

Bad "Misfit" Bad - nothing great to report :lol:

Looking forward to your report. I peaked at the save doesn't look bad.

Need to review the rules but I think we still have to declare on BAB in 390BC.

Updated previous posts

Confirmed, yes we do have to declare on BAB in 390BC. Eridu is a BAB city so we have our first BAB rubble pile.

As for the second core, FP & palace move we need to keep expanding out in RCP5 rings from Rome after we settle our first 2 rings. This would give us basically OCP starting with the 3rd ring and try to culturally grab as much land as possible. Until we find another (or two) good settler factory area(s) there's not much to worry about.

Large number of wounded units will be normal in this game for a long time.

Dont think we have to think a about a FP yet.

Turn order
grs - up
conhead234 - back Aug 1st
marconos - away July 31st and 1st (please don't skip)
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit - Done


Does this look right?

Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Yeah, thats the ticket.

Now that we are at war with Germany can we ever declare peace with them? Especially if it's before we need to fight them? Don't think we want to as we want them to have problems with war weariness.

Another thought ... do we really want republic? I would think we want to switch to Monarchy instead as we don't want problems with war weariness? Any thoughts on this.

I would also like to product a galley or two to contact the civs on the other continent ... if there is another continent. We are missing a couple of nations. We can make sure those two nations stay up in techs to keep our GLib running at full capacity. Thoughts on this?

Are we going to focus on a specific nation to remove the mantal of leadership form their tired and weary sholders? What I generally like to do is play defense with the other nations and kick poor kid around until he gives up the ghost. By doing this we can reduce the pressure our the mother country but greatly reducing the total number of units we have to face.

I would really like to see us destroy Greece and quickly. By looking at the map they have the largest number of cities closest to us. By focusing on them we can remove the western threat. If we are lucky the other nations aren't out there.

My thought here is we 3 cities run defense for the mother land. The other cities units are all sent to the "agressive" front. Any thoughts on moving forward with this plan.

The final point here is what is the thoughts of moving our captiol and FP talk? Not sure what we would want to do these things for. Souonds like a strategy I'm not familar with can someone enlighten me here please.

You are correct in the gov choice. We will want monarchy. Since we have the GLib and are doing no research it does not matter what we set the research to.

Main reason for FP & Palace jumping has to do with establishing a second core and with limiting the overall corruption of your cities. In our Jumpmaster SG (Mistfit is on my team there also) we are about to relocate our palace. Here is the link to it, (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92814) if you want to see how it affects the corruption.

Just did actually

I just don't see a reason for fp yet, since we dont have much land. We can still build the fp by hand or leader later on. I am not very fond of using alle the many bugs and tricks around palace jumping though they are not forbidden in SGOTM.

BTW: got it an will play over the weekend - hopefully tonight.

I will be away for the rest of today. I do however plan on writing the spoiler for the Middle ages tomorrow morning

good luck - grs

I have to postpone this till at least Sunday evening.

Not a problem. Conehead is not due back til Sunday so there is no hurry. That would allow him to jump back in after your set. And Marconos is unavailable this weekend also.

I have PM'ed MB to see if we qualify to post in the spoiler thread. It states on the front page that we have to have met everyone on our continent and cannot mention anyone else from another continent. I presume that we have met everyone but I do not know if we have met someone from another island because of our limited map.

Ok, I am back, What did I miss?

Not much the Great Library is ours and we are at war with nearly everyone. Same ole...same ole...

and you are up after grs. I think he said he'd play tonight

Welcome back.

We have Great Library, have had our GA and are soon to be at war with 6 civs (must declare on #6 in the next turnset 390BC).

The babs are next on the hit list. And they wre nice enough to plunk a city down for us to raze in the north.

Okay I'm back ... and anxiously awaiting my Next turn!!!!

Sorry for the delay. Playing now.

pre: mm Veii for max shields and go
ibt: french ask for peace - no; french sword dies attacking Hisp and we get an elite
530BC: --
ibt: english horse redlines our legion; we learn The Republic
510bc: Viroconium founded; kill a french sword and spear, lose 1 legion
ibt: Aztechs complete the pyramids; american cascade to great wall; our golden age ends
490bc: kill english archer
ibt: english, babs and russia start sun tzu's
470bc: --
ibt: we defend against a french sword; greeks ask for peace and lose a horse at cumae
450bc: kill an english horse; lose a legion, kill a hoplite
ibt: --
430bc: kill another english horse; kill an english spear and capture a settler
ibt: germans ask for 100 gold and peace; then attack with a horse, but have to withdraw; greeks start sun tzs's too
410bc: we declare babylon 1 turn early because we have an easy going at just founded ragash and raze it; kill a greek archer and a horse; kill 2 russian archer and force a horse to withdraw
ibt: english archer and french sword lose
390bc: kill english archer, german horse, english horse; remember I may not keep foreign workers and disband them...they did not work anything and were not disbanded in a city, sorry
ibt: --
370bc: lose a legion to a french spear guardind a settler; kill a german archer; lose a legion to russian archer
ibt: lose our first horse to a greek one; french settler I failed to capture founds Rouen
350bc: get another great leader - from the same horse; kill babylonian spear, capture settler and disband workers; kill a german archer

Notes:

* the leader is unmoved, we need an army dearly and I would build one asap
* we should mix in some horses for speed and upgrade to knights
* revolt once we get monarchy
* we have many wounded elites
* have a look at Ravenna and the russian horse; there is an unmoved legion near it, but it may be the best to rush a spear in Ravenna

I had good luck with the rng, but it plays extremely hard.

the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_BC0350_01.sav)

Good Turns grs. Way to pull another GL! What would your suggestion be to the makeup of the army? All Horse?

For Discussion Purposes:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/jump.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/jump_mapstat.jpg

Turn order
grs - done
conhead234 - up
marconos -
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -


Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC - at war declared 410 BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

On the GLeader, with only 17 turns to Sun Tzu I think grs' army suggestion is very good choice right now.

For the army makeup - I would go with 3 Legions, maybe even only 2 at first to get it into action and then add the 3rd later. I wouldn't use horses for the army, we want them for future upgrade to knights (80gold ea).

Good thing we are not at war with USA yet. Definately rush either a spear or an archer. Either will upgrade later.

Any idea which way AMER came from? Is PER the only civ to our East? If so we should fight defensive on western front and concentrate on PER to allow us a one front war. If AMER came from the NE it doesn't matter. The water to the NE is coast (not fresh) so I'm hoping its not an inland sea, which could mean only PER to the East.

"We need more boots on the ground" seems to be our mantra for this game.

@gator: PER=greece :) and I think they are the only ones in the east. Americans came from northwest.

@mistfit: no horse for the army, 3 vet. or * legions would be the right choice.

On settling: I did not build any settler in my turns, because we hardly have any save room. Next places of interest would be s,s,se of Veii (save) and the spices region once we secured it. You could still set rome on settler, but all! forces from the west move towards us united (England, Babylon, Russia, Germans and French).

Note to team I have supplied the spoiler to the spoiler thread. So you are free to peruse that as you wish. There is a fairly heated debate about the fairness of the Varient. I think luck is luck, and there is nothing wrong with the way the game was set up.

Excellent write up. A fun team, though we are far behing area wise.

Misfit ... excellent write up.

I agree with the army idea. I would like to see 3 legions in it. We can send them on a plunder run all on their own against say the greeks to get rid of their contant yelling at us over the mountains.

For the next couple of cities I would like the 1st one to go to the 6 tile SE of VEII. The next one I would like to place on the ring 6 tile straight West of Heralki.

Does anyone know if we can establish peace with Germany since they were brought it. Only reason that I ask is maybe we could get a map out of them and see a huge chunk of the known world.

Good job on the writeup Mistfit.

@marconos - Once at war no peace

Are you sure on that Gator? We have not made diplomatic communications with them. They declared on us in the IBT.
Edit:
Ok never mind. MB said yes indeed we do need to stay at war.

Ok, I got it.

I am at turn 5, during turn 3, I got a Great Leader. Should we use him for Sun Tzu's or another army? Also I got the continental map from America.

Way to go, another MGL :goodjob:

How many turns until we build Sun Tzu on our own and are there any other Wonders available to switch those shields to?

In this game an Army is always a good choice also.

We have about ten turns to sun tzu there are no other wonders to switch to, we lost ravenna in the north but I razed Eridu and Rouen, so an army may be best but I would also hate to lose sun tzu's.

In this game 10 turns is a long time and we are about due for a wonder cascade. On the other hand another army will really allow us to start crushing the computer. Let's go for sun tzu as that allows us to immediately start producing military in any new cities.

We can always get another GL and make an army.

Here is a picture from when I got the leader, It also has the full continental map in the minimap. Also the leader was got in an interturn, so that worker by the russian archer is safe.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTm3_misfit_leader3.JPG

We already have barracks in our core cities and they are not expensive to build. Sun Tzu is not a game breaker if we lose it, except for the wasted shields. We could have had a lot of Legions for those shields. The only way the shields are not wasted is if we complete Sun Tzu on its own, since there is nothing to switch it to.

If you have enough unit to fill it I'd vote on the army & let Sun Tzu complete on its own.

I can got with Gator's suggestion. I rarely build Sun Tzu's in my games as I save my a leader for the sisten chapel generally.

From the looks of the map we really need another army.

Ok, Army it is.

Preturn 350 BC- Move the leader back to Rome and build an Army. Dial up America, what will you give me for Republic, WM and 100 gold. Well we need the map knowledge, there better be something usefull in this map. We have a map of the whole continent now. Only Greece is to our east, everyone else is to our north. It looks like that there is another continent off the east Coast. Rush a spear in Ravenna.
IT-Russian troops move toward Ravenna, a bab settler pair appears by Warwick. Ravenna Spear-> Spear.
1-330BC-Wack the babylon settler pair, disband the workers. Wack 2 Russian Archers. Attack Rouen with a legion, kill the spear, and auto raze the city, get 3 gold from it.
IT- Russian Troops advance, they are 2 turns away from defending Neapolis
2-310BC- Attack Warwick, lose a legion, kill a spear. Switch Neapolis to pike. Kill a spear and bowman, raze Eridu. Kill an english archer, load up 2 legions into the army.
IT-Ravenna is razed after the spear kills a russian horse but loses to an archer. Our elite legionary is attacked by a english horse and wins, we get a leader. German troops appear to the north. Greek troops appear to the east. A french spear is on top of our iron. Cumae Legion->legion. Neapolis pike->legion. Pompeii legion->legion. Hispalis armamentarium->catapult
3-290BC- Slay the French spear. RNG bites us and I lose 2 legions attacking a greek horse.
IT-Our legion on our iron kills a horse and archer and promotes to elite. Rome Horse->legion.
4-270BC- Stupid RNG, we lose 2 legions attacking a russian settler pair.
IT-Antium Legion->legion.
5-250BC- Build an army with the leader. Rename the army general conehead. Wack the Russian Archer that razed Ravenna. Wack a greek archer with an elite legion, no leader.
IT- More german troops arrive, we learn Monarchy. Pisae legion->legion. Viroconium legion->rax. America builds lighthouse.
6-230BC-Kill a greek hopite and retreat a greek horse. Wack a english archer. Revolt to monarchy, we get 3 turns anarchy.
IT-enemies move around.
7-210BC-Wack a German archer and sword with 2 elite legions, no leader. Wack an english archer.
IT-America Demands Territory map and 63 gold, I tell them to stuff it and they back down.
8-190BC- Wack 2 greek horses. Attack Herakleia, lose 1 legions but kill a hopite and redline another, our other legion is redlined. Wack a russian settler pair, disband the workers.
IT- More enemy troops appear, an english galley is sailing along our coast. Greek archer kills our red lined legion. We learn Invention. We are now a monarchy.
9-170BC- Wack a greek horseman with our army. Wack an english archer, lose a horseman to a russian horseman. Rush Legions in Neapolis and Pompeii.
IT-Kill an english horse and french sword, lose a legion. Rome legion->legion. Neapolis legion->legion. Pompeii legion->legion.
10-150BC- Wack a german archer, kill a russian horse. Our army is almost killed killing that horse.

SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_BC0150_01.sav)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_misfit_northern_front.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_misfit_eastern_front.JPG

I think that it may be the time that we have to pull back to our cities and play defensively for a while on the northern front. Once we knock out Greece, we can focus on one front.

Good play. Nice job on the 3 turn anarchy, also.

Yeah that northern front is going to be a problem for a long time.

Maybe we should get some catapults out there and wall our northern city; turtle in untill we get knights.

Got it ... will review and post plan today .. target it to play tonight

Whew .. it's nasty out there. I have a feeling we are going to lose our northern army :(. Conhead you had a nice welcome back to the game set of turns eh??

My plan is to produce 2 more settlers our of rome. We have to get more cities going to keep up our production levels. First city will be place SW of Veii in ring 6. Second city will be placed SW of Cume in front of the soon to be rubble Greek city there.

On the Northern front I am going create legions and setup a defensive perimeter to try and hold back the tied. The units out in the Noth land will fight their way back home. I'm hoping to make our Nothern most city be a killing zone and suck large numbers of computer units into it.

2 concerns that I have. We have nothing in reserve in the main town. I will leave 2 - 3 legions in the home base as protectors and MP. I recommend that we leave those units there. The french ship in our bay has me concerned.

All of the units that are produced by the Western cities ( all 2 of them ) will be sent directly to the greek front to work with the army there. I really want to try and split the Greek empire in half.

If I have the luck of getting any leaders the first one will be used to rush Leonardo's workshop. Any others will be used to build armies.

I will hopefully get this played out tonight so let me know if there is any suggestions.

Well I think we should get some walls up in Hispalis, rush them if needed. We should also rush legions, because we have to money to do so. I think we should use the desert as a killing zone, because the enemies will get low defense on it. We should also try to keep the legions on mountians so they have a better chance to survive. I think we have to take out greece first and then we can focus on one front.

Good turns General conehead!! I'm pretty impressed. No pointy stick research available, very little trade, and we are in the lead for tech on our island.

Turn order
grs - done
conhead234 -
marconos - up
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -




Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC - at war declared 410 BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Do I need to declare war on anybody on my turn? I think we are getting close to the next one. I hope not .. so far I have kept my hands clean. I don't declare the wars ... just killl their troops ;)

America has to be declared on at 10 AD.

Good turns conehead and good luck macronos! Try to use the terrain at its best. We need to resettle razed towns or all razing will be in vain.

Good luck on your turns Marconos.

We need to put Rome back on the settler / Legion cycle, depending on its size maybe settler/settler/legion. As before don't let it get below size 4. We have to keep the settler pump running at all times.

What has slowed us the most is hand building Sun Tzu at 600 shields thats 20 Legions and we would be in a lot better shape with those 20 Legions.

In hind site we should have never prebuilt anything. At this point the GL's we have generated would already have those items built ... and we would most likely have more GL's as we would have more to fight with.

Something learned and put into memory bank for next time.

You can never count on a GL though. They are Random. I've gone whole games fighting with elite and only gotten one.


Edit: Is there somthing wrong with the fourm? Everyones sig's look bigger than normal. Or is this somthing I messed up on my computer?

It's you it's always you .. sheesh when are you going to learn that!!! :crazyeye:

Okay I hope I didn't screw things up too bad.

0) 150BC Rush legionaires in Antium and Pisae 176 gold.
Change production in Hispalis to Walls ... done next turn
Change Rome to settler

IBT: Archer attacks Northern army and dies ... no dmg
Horseman attacks Northern army redlines but kills army :(
Babylonian offers peace ... tell them where to go!!!
France drops off a swordsman by Veii

Antium: Legionary -> Legionary
Cumae: Legionary -> Legionary
Pisae: Legionary -> Legionary
Hispalis: Moenia -> Catapult

French are buliding the Hanging Gardens :satan: good they are now making fewer troops

1) 130BC Army attacks Herakleia kills Hoplite and loses 6 health.
Archer from Veii attacks swordsman and kills ... loses 1 health no promotion
Legionary from Antium kills Greek archer in mountains.
Move troops to more defensive positions.
Decide to take wounded elite legion back to town through hills avoiding contact.

2) 110BC Army attacks Herakleia kills hoplite and loses 1 health. Have to pull back and heal now.
Hurry Legionaires in Pompeii and Neapolis for 144 gold
Hurry Catapult in Hispalis for 72 gold

IBT: French Swordsman attacks Elite legionaire .. we win
French Swordsman attacks same elite legionair .. we lose .. no dmg to them.

3) 90BC Neapolis: Legionary -> Legionary
Pompeii: Legionary -> Legionary
Rome: Settler -> Settler
Hispalis: Catapult -> Warrior ( we can upgrade to legionary

Legionary from Rome attacks greek archers and wins .. no promotion
Legionary attack Bab longbow wins 1 hp loss .. promotes to elite
Hurry Legionary in Cumae and Antium for 150 gold

IBT: Greece moving up swordsman
America start Hanging Gardens

4) 70 BC Cumae: Legionary -> Legionary
Antium: Legionary -> Legionary
Viroconium: Barracks -> Legionary

Catapult attacks Bab unit in mountians and hits.
Elite Legionary finish off with 1 pt loss.

IBT:

5) 50 BC Kill Greek Swordsman with Legionary and promote to elite.
Catapult hits Russian archer and hits for 1 pt dmg
Elite Legionary finishes off and loses 1 pt

IBT: Enemy troops everywhere on Western and Northern fronts
America building Leonardo's workshop

6) 30 BC Rome: Settler -> Settler
Catapult hits bab archer and hits for 1 pt dmg
Elite army kills bab archer and generate leader. :thumbsup:
Will use to rush sun tzu's .. change Veii to leonardo's workshop
will use in Viroconium to push borders out there.
Legionary attacks Herakleia and kills Hoplite for 1 dmg no promo
Legionary attacks Herakleia and kills Hoplite for 1 dmg no promo
Destroy Heraklei
Lugdunum founded -- begin worker

Bad Turn: :sad:
Sorry screwed up: Lux dropped to 20% should have dropped 2 turns ago :sad:
Left worker in open ... captured by russian horseman

IBT: Enemy Troop movements everywhere
Germans are building the hanging gardens

7) 10 BC Neapolis: Legionary -> Walls
Viroconium: Worker -> Sun Tzu's -- rushed with MGL
Catapult hits 2 pt horseman in mountains knocks to 1
Legionary Kills horseman in mountinas
Legionary kills horseman in plains


Lose Legionary attacking Russin Spearman settler pair
Lux back to 30% for Pompeii.
Military Advisor says our military is strong against everyone else

IBT: Another Russian Horseman pair incoming
French and Russian Settler pairs in view


8) 10 AD Cumae: Legionary -> Legionary
Pompeii: Legionary -> Legionary
Hispalis: Warrior -> Legionary
We get Sun Tzu's: Cause wonder cascade .. everyone now building Leonardo's Workshop we will have in 3 turns
Virconium: Sun Tzu's -> Legionary

Catapult finally misses russian spearman in forest.
Legionary kills bab archer no dmg no promo
Legionary dies on bab archer does 1 dmg .. bab archer promotes.
Legionary attacks russian spearman and kills no dmg or promo
Upgrade Warrior to Legionary in Hispalis
Hurry Legionary in Pisae for 36 Gold
Talk to USA .. they have nothing to trade and won't give anything for maps. :evil:
Declare war on them.
We are now at war with everyone that we know. :ar15:

IBT: French Swordsman attacks Neaoplis .. redlines us but we get him
Babylon get's Leonardo's workshop :aargh:
Change Veii to Heroic Epic .. best of remaining items -- lose 387 shields :(

9) 30 AD Neapolis: Walls -> Legionary
Pisae: Legionary -> Legionary

Legionary attacks german settler/spearman pair. Kill them but redlines us. No promo
Lutetia Founded -> set to warrior
Army attacks Greek swords man ... loses 2 life but gains one when regular legionary in army promotes

Enemy Troops in view:
French : 1 spear/ settler pair, 1 spear, 1 swordsman, 1 galley
Russian: 3 horseman
English: 1 horseman, 1 spear, 1 galley
Bab: 3 Longbowmen, 2 swordsman
Germany: 1 archer

IBT:

10) 50 AD Rome: Settler -> Legionary
Veii: Heroic Epic -> Legionary

Legionary dies on french spearman but redlines
Legionary kills redline french spearman no dmg or promo
Catapult misses
Legionary kills bab longbowman.
Elite Legionary Kills Russian horseman 2 dmg
Legionary kills russian horesman. redlins no promo


Notes for next player:
French ship seen probing SW defenses. Sent Legionary to "investigate"
Settler that is just produced in Rome is waiting for movement at the start of your turn.
On SE front sending legionaries to take out Southern greek cities.
Army is playing defense until they get healed up.
I would suggest rushing some more legionaries along the western front in Neapolis, Pompeii and Hispalis.
That should give enough to turn back the current incoming group.
There is an elite legion by Hispalis mountians that is in striking distance of the bab swordsman.
Was thinking of leaving there as a pinch point for incoming troops. There are enough
troops in Hispalis to fight of the swordsman. Most likely they will head in towards our center and
we can fight them better there.
The Legions in Neapolis could attack but are safe in the walls and can attack units in plains behind them
if they need to. Your choice.

My suggestion for the next settler is in Ring 9 on the coast SW of Virconium.

@macronos: no, you did not screw up. We are in a bad shape because - as Gator mentioned - we put too much shields in wonders and too few into military. We will try to have a comeback when we can build knights - as conehead said.

Am I the only one who can't get a damn leader?
Good turns Marconos! I agree its time to turtle a bit. I'll look at the save and post my ideas a bit later in the day.

Turn order
grs -
conhead234 -
marconos -
DJMGator13 - up
Mistfit -


Does this look right?

Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC - at war declared 410 BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD - at war
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD -at war can wait until 530 AD to start next if we meet someone
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Let's not build ships. I don't think we want to meet anyone for awhile. How much longer before the computer opponents start having lot's of problem with war weariness? It should be hitting them pretty hard soon.

While we are "turtling" I think we can still take out Greece and use that army as a swing up along the far side of the continent. That should help get rid of some of the pressure.

Our immediate goal should be to hold the northern front and take out Greece. We need to get some catapults out to help our legions. Does anyone know where the Greek Iron is, we can stop there swords if we can take it out.

I don't know if I agree. We have 500 years that we could trade with whom ever we meet before we have to declare on them and we could possibly do some trading with them in the interum. Also when we do declare on them we will have little to worry about because AI is really poor at attacking over the water.

Well we could try to send out one ship but we will have to get past the french and english galleys.

The Greeks iron is SE of our main encapment. I have 5 legions heading that way at the end of my turn. I really wanted to take that out.

Can we really afford to send galley's at this point??

Question on rushing troops: Did I rush too many. I was really trying to strenghen our front and with the bad guys coming in all over the place I didn't have much choice IMO. So looking for some feedback on that.

BTW: I have noticed that once I put up walls around a city the computer would stop attacking that city and move to the next one. Is that normal for them? I didn't build walls in Pompeii as it will be size 7 soon and won't get any benefir from them.

There are actually two sourses in the south. I do not know if both are hooked
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/iron.jpg

I know the southern one is hooked up from the world map. I don't believe the Northern one is. My thought was we could kill that city then move N up the coast. The other two cities in the tundra aren't a big concern as they will never get that large. We can always take them out when we have a chance later. In some ways it actually safer to have a weak opponent taking up those squares and keep a stronger opponent from settling there.

To win this game by domination or conquest we are going to need a huge quanity of settlers. I know grs does not agree with me but I feel that we need to start looking for a location for the FP in an area with huge population potential. We cannot keep any cities so it will all be raze and replace. I agree that the poorer areas in the south (tundra) can be left to the greeks for the time being. That being said we need to pump some serious settlers out to start filling in the newly conquered area before the other civs do it for us.

Good turns Marconos.

Now that Veii can start pumping out Legions every 3 turns that will help some. We need to mine a few of the tiles near Rome, mainly the wine hill. Thats a 2f/3s hill not being used.

We may want to switch builds in the 2 undefended cities south of Veii to spears, just to get an MP in there. Could help bring the lux slider down.

@Mistfit - I think the only concern with FP talk is that while good for an overall plan, it is too early to implement. Quick look at the map shows either Paris or London as our next best food/sheild combo and it will be a while until we get there.

EDIT - Got it - I'll probably play tonight or tomorrow AM (So Mistfit can have this for the weekend ;) I saw your TDG post)

I was looking at the map when I was playing thinking allong those lines. Virconium may be a good city to get another settler factory or worker /legionary pump going with the cow tile. I mined it but we could make up for that by irrigating one of the green tile there. Any thoughts on this? We are quite low on workers for the number of cities we have. I was having a hard time keeping up with the growth worker wise.

It doesn't help either that I was stupid and lost a worker :(

Summary
Killed 50 units, lost 14. Razed 3 towns, founded 3 towns. Pick up 3 techs from Glib. - No great leader even with a number of elite victories, we should be due.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Preturn - 50AD
Rush Legion in Pisae for 104gold
switch Lugdunum to a spear & rush for 64 gold
Move settler towards spot on coast
wake Legions in Neapolis - take out FRA sword & ENG horse, we lose a Legion and one promos to elite
mm Veii for some growth

IBT - the international flow of forces approaches from the NW / a BAB galley & FRA galley appear near Lugdunium

Turn1 - 70AD
Cumae legion => legion
Pisae Legion => legion
Lugdunum spear => worker
Switch Hispalis from Legion to cat
mm Rome back to +5food & switch to settler - Rome can be a 4 turn settler factory exclusively
rush Legion in Viroconium for 52gold

IBT - GER land an archer near Lugd. / we learn MONO & GUNP / wave keeps coming and there are settlers in there

Turn2 - 90AD
Antium legion => legion
Pompeii legion => legion
Viroconium legion => legion
We have saltpeter 1 NE of Hispalis & another in Romes culturally expanded area

eLegion takes out BAB sword
vLegion takes out GER archer
eLegion takes out BAB bowman
vLegion takes out BAB bowman - promos to elite

IBT - rush of illegal aliens continue

Turn3 - 110AD
Veii legion => legion

vLegion takes out AMR warrior
eLegion retreats ENG horse
eLegion takes out ENG horse
vLegion takes out ENG spear
vLegion takes out GER archer & settler (disband workers on spot)
vLegion takes out GER sword

Battle at Thessalonica
vLegion vrs vHoplite - inflict 2hp damage and we die
vLegion vrs rHoplie - inflict 1hp of damage and we die
vLegion vrs 2/3rHoplite - we win flawlessly
eLegion vrs 2/4 Hoplite - we win & destroy city

IBT - wave continues

Turn4 - 130AD
Rome settler => settler
Cumae legion => legion
Neapolis legion => legion

vLegion loses to a 2/3 rSword
vLegion takes out the Sword

IBT - group of 4 GER units near Popmeii & Neap. / ENG founds a city on the coast by my settler & legion

Turn5 - 150AD
rush legion in Antium for 68gold

vLegion vrs GER rSword - we redline but win - no promo
vLegion vrs GER rSword - we win - no promo
eLegion vrs GER rArcher - we win - no promo
eLegion vrs GER rArcher - we win - no promo
eLegion vrs AMR warrior - we redline but win - no promo

IBT - wave continues - FRA settles Dijion (N N NE) of Lutetia

Turn6 - 170AD
Veii legion => legion
Antium legion => legion
Pompeii legion => legion

vLegion takes out AMR longbow
vLegion takes out BAB longbow
vLegion takes out AMR longbow
vLegion takes out ENG spear
vLegion dies attacking a BAB bowman
eLegion takes out the BAB bowman
vLegion wins down 2 hp and destroys Dijion
vLegion dies attacking GRK rSword

IBT - GRK sword dies attacking our vLegion - promos to elite

Turn7 - 190AD
Cumae Legion => legion
Viroconium legion => legion
switch Lutetia to worker

vLegion takes out GER sword
eLegion takes out GER archer
vLegion takes out BAB spear
Army takes out a vHoplite in Athens
vLegion takes out a rHoplite in Athens (down 2 ho promos to elite)

IBT - ENG horse advances / ENG galley south out of city

Turn8 - 210AD
Rome settler => settler
Hispalis cat => legion
Viroconium riots - not sure why no clowns required but it grew in size
settler founds Brundisium (on old Rav. Site) - set to cat
vLegion takes out ENG spear in Liverpool (the coastal city SW of Viroc.) promos to elite
rLegion takes out ENG spear - razes Liverpool
settler founds Byzantium next to Liverpool ruins - set to worker

Army takes out vHoplite in Athens
eLegion takes out GRK longbow outside of Athens
loss 2 legions attacking Knossos, 3rd legion pillages iron
eLegion takes out BAB spear
vLegion takes out ENG horse
eLegion retreats ENG horse
vLegion takes out GER pike
vLegion takes out GER spear
eLegion loses to RUS spear/settler pair

IBT - FRA sword dies attacking our vLegion who promos to elite / ENG drops off longbow near Lugd./ foreign nationals advance on Hispalis

Turn9 - 230AD
Veii legion => legion
Neapolis legion => legion
Lugdunium worker => worker
Lutetia worker => worker
rush legion in Hispalis for 104gold

vLegion dies attacking AMR spear in Houston
vLegion kills AMR spear in Houston
eLegion redlines but makes rubble out of Houston
vLegion takes out ENG longbow promos to elite
eLegion loses to a RUS rArcher

IBT - RUS horse attacking a redlined Legion we win, then an ENG horse takes out the same legion / GRK land 2 units near Lugd. / we learn CHEMISTRY

Turn10 - 250AD
Cumae legion => legion
Pompeii legion => legion
Hispalis legion => legion
rush legion in Veii (due to battle results against the 2 GRK units)

eLegion loses flawlessly to GRK rSword who promos to vet
vLegion loses to same GRK sword inflicting 1hp of damage
vArcher takes out the GRK sword flawlessly
wake 2 worker by GRK horse and move them into Veii
eLegion takes out AMR longbow
eLegion takes out RUS archer
vLegion takes out BAB pike & settler (disbands workers)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes to next player
1) Rome is a 4 turn settler factory - make sure +5food & 7shields at size 4 then +5food & 9sheilds at size5
2) The international forces keep following in from the NW and they are skirting us and settling the N & NE next - we need to block this somehow (see pic)
3) I have the army healing in GRK lands and have pillaged their iron - they need to come back home & pick up a settler
4) I would escorted the settler with a stack of 4-5 legions, raze one of the towns and then found our city - This is probably the only way to claim land safely.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/MistfitSG03_04.jpg

Sorry for double post - but we have our first target date to try to beat.

Team Smackster won variant in 1300AD

Good turns. Hopefully we can beat that date. Do we have any Saltpeter? We could try to go straight toward cavs.

Good turns. Hopefully we can beat that date. Do we have any Saltpeter? We could try to go straight toward cavs.

...Hopefully.... yeah.... i've been told that hope is something that always dies last... so please do hope :rolleyes: ... while you have time that is.... ;)

Just downloaded. Good looking turns Gator. I'll look at the save and prolly play in the am. 7-10 hours from now. I'll post any question I might have. Post any Ideas you might have.

Yes we have saltpeter, but neither is hooked up. That seems to be the path the Ai's are taking. We are 2 techs from Cavs, so they may come before the Glib cuts off, but I doubt it. Should we go ahead and start researching Metal, just in case? Education is due next on the top half of the tech tree.

We have no horsemen and can not build knights yet. We need 2 move attack units to start pushing them back.

The only way I saw to be offensive is to take a settler with the stack and found new city immediately, otherwise the AIs are claimimg the land.

Greek is without strategic recources soon (if not already) so we should be able to take them out, which would finally end our two front war.

We should start research on metallurgy at minimum and wait for the rest of the techs from the GL.

On all other points I just can second what Gator already said. FP in or around Paris area - once we get that far. Excellent turns btw, lets keep the settler factory this time. All other core cities should try to get at 10 or 15 uncorrupted shields for legions and horsemen. We can upgrade the horses later, but even now they will help us much.

State of the Monarchy Report 250BC
Gold In : +101
Expenses: 54 (Mostly Lux Slider -26 and Unit Cost -10)
Net Gain +47 gpt
In the Bank 334 gold

Units:
1 Settler
8 workers (need a few more)
1 archer
1 pike
1 spear
2 cats
1 army of Legionaries
25 Legionary

Land holdings:
13 Cities
158 tiles (need 2053 to win by domination - prolly won't happen in my turn set)

PreTurn:
Not much mming needed
Pompeii gets juggled around a bit to make Legion in 3 instead of 4
Neapolis will need a Mp to keep it from rioting I pull one worker to a taxman - It may starve one turn until I can get someone here to babysit.

Here we go

IBT:
Bab Bowman dies to our legion -2hp
Greek horse kills our 3hp legion
Veii Leg - Leg due in 3
Pisae Leg - Leg due in 10

Turn 1 (260AD)
vLeg dies to 2hp French Sword still 2 hp
3hpvLeg kills rHop in Athens no damage no promo
Note: Southern Iron not hooked I'll pillage a few tiles to insure it does not get hooked any time soon

IBT
First weedy moment - I didn't kill off the Russian spear on our Iron and it was pillaged
Rome Settler - Settler

Turn 2 (270AD)
Tough battle vLeg kills French Pike redlined
Kill the Russian rSpear on our iron -1hp no promo
Kill an american settler pair flawless no promo disband the workers
Army takes Athens Raze it to the ground Army will have to stay and heal
Disband worker

IBT
American bowman kills himself on our legion in the mountains
The Greek LB kills our vLeg -2hp in in the Luetia and raze the city -16 gold
Pompeii Leg to Warrior in 1 (I'll have to do this until the iron is rehooked)
Virconium Leg to warrior in 2
3 german swords show up outside Hispalis

Turn 3 (280AD)
Kill an english bow flawless with vLeg no promo
Kill an english horse with vLeg -3hp
Pillage the Greek Inscense
Hurry Legion in Hispalis for 92 gold
Hire a clown in Virconium to Stop riot from happening
Loose 2 Leg to Greek Lbows
2 of three German sword attack vet Legion outside of hispalis one German Sword dead one redlined (we promo'ed after the 1st attack but only had 2 hp)
Greek Hop attacks out of southern Greek city by iron dies and we promote to elite -2 hp
We learn Chivalry (Edit: It was Actually Chemisrty)
Switch to Metallurgy
Veii Legion to Warrior in 1
Antuim Legion to Warrior in 2
Cumae Legion to Warrior in 1
Neapolis Legion to Warrior in 2
Pompeii Warrior to Warrior in 1
Hispalis Rushed Legion comes on line to warrior in 4

Turn 4 (300AD)
Kill the Greek LBow that took our city Promote to Elite
Kill a vWarrior from america with pike -2hp Promote to Elite
Kill Bab Sword that killed our Leg -1hp no promo
MM Rome for Settler and Growth in 2
Move southern forces to raze some roads
Army still healing

IBT
We were attacked twice and promoed twice
Veii Warrior to Warrior in 1
Cumae Warrior to Warrior in 1
Pompeii Warrior to worker in 1 (I needed to make one during my turns)
Vircomium Warrior to Warrior in 2

Turn 5 (300AD)
Build Syracuse on the ground of our razed city start on a worker in 10
Kill rWarrior American flawless with vLeg Promotes to Elite
Kill rBow Amer with vLeg -2 Promotes to Elite
Kill French Bow with Elite Leg -3 no leader
-1 hp Pike Feeling spivey attacks r American warrior Flawlessly - kicks his arse no leader
Trying to set up a killing field in the north with Leg's and our 2 cats
Our Army is not healing at all Forted on a Hill :confused:
The French are going to settle where Athens was Efectivly splitting the Greeks in two

IBT
Nope the americans beat 'em to it The greeks are now in 2 Pcs.
Our elite Leg dies to a rLB Greek in the south
Rome Settler to Settler
Pompeii Worker to Knight in 9
We learn Chivalry (again?) Edit: It must have been Chemistry that we learned earlier

Turn 6 (310AD)
UpGrade 5 Warriors to Legions for 200 Gold
Bab Killer dies attacking a Vet German Sword redlined but promo's
Upgrade Spear to Pike in Lugdnum Greek horse is on the doorstep for 20 gold

IBT
Brundisium Cat to Cat in 7
Greek horse attacks our newly minted Pike in Lugdunum goes redline and retreats

Turn 7 (320AD)
Finally able to switch Clown to Scientist in Viroconium Mettal in 40 (Sorry Guys, I missed a studying couple of turns on Metalurgy :( )
Oooh close one Lugdumun Pike redlines attacking the 1 hp Greek horse but wins
vLeg kills v spear in Cologne Redlines but Promotes to Elite
vLeg kills r spear in Cologne Flawless we take city and raze it (settler 1 turn behind)

IBT
Loose 3 Legs this IBT those long bow are kick'n me aropund a bit
Veii Leg to Knight in 6
Cumae Leg to Knight in 7
Lugdumbihatetypingthisname Worker to cat in 20 should be less with growth
Same with Byzantium

Turn 8 (330AD)
Lose 2 more units attacking injured opponets not a good round

IBT
We loose our settler in the west to a weedy move of mine. Last turn I tried to attack a 1hp LB and he died in the process. That LB killed the one I had covering the settler.
We learn Education (So Long Great Library)
Neapolis Leg to Leg in 5
Viroconium Leg to Leg in 4

Turn 9 (AD)
No attacking just moving

IBT
The Babylonians attack Brundisium with 3 LB against our 2 elite Legs and win they settle a city in the same movement
Antium Legion to Cat in 4
I missed Pissant growing and it Riots hire a tax man

Turn 10 (350AD)
Kill one of the two LBow in Brund. Cant get the second (he can't pop rush a defender but he might buy one IBT)
Attack an American Spear outside of Hispalis with an elite unit and get a GL
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Redemption.jpg
I Move him to Pompeii for the next player (I suggest waiting for some Knights to make an army)
The Settler is ready to build a city in the west where the German city was
I was checking to see how much it would cost to Rush the 3 Knights for the army and Accidently clicked yes on one of them. Well, we will have one next turn to play with. Also we do not thave the cash to rush the other 2 yet.

Hand Down Report:
Lots of loose troops wandering around. they seem to have switched there direction from the NW to the North.
The only other thing we could do with Claudius would be to rush the Sistines but seeings that we will likely never build cathedrals that IMO would be a waste.
You can run the Cats up and down the line between Pompeii, Rome and Cumae dependant on where the troops are at they did pretty well for me. It seems like if you take a point or two away from the unit they will retreat to the mountains to heal.
Remember we may not have to raze Brundium because there should be no Bab nationals inside, check 1st.
Our army is back to 9 HP I think we should move him north to the battlelines to help escort the settlers to new cities to the East.
I would try to go SanFran 1st to Corinth to get those silk.

Notes:
The French and the Babs must be at war because the Babs have a city named Lyons (I think thats a french name)
The Babs are sending the most troops at us and most are Vet's
Not my best turn-set but I think it was acceptable.

Next better player.

I just realized that no one would get notified that I was done because I just Edited the info in my last post. so sorry for the double dip but this game is flying right along and I'd hate to see our progress lag.

Looks pretty good, we are definately fighting a war of attrition. I was hoping some of the AI would start fighting each other once they ran out of room to expand. That is why we need to settle as soon as we raze a town. Also need to try to attack the longbows before they attack us. They attack at 4 but only defend at 1. We should be able to get Brund back next turn. Now that we can build knights we need to start cranking them out as well.

grs is next - good luck

I can take it now, but won't be able to play before Monday evening, so if conehead wants to jump in, I would like to swap, but don't forget grs2 conehead ;)

I will not forget Grs2. I will play it tomorrow.

Turn order



grs - has the game
conehead234 - on deck
marconos -
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -

Who is next now, conehead or me?

I can take it now, but won't be able to play before Monday evening, so if conehead wants to jump in, I would like to swap, but don't forget grs2 conehead

I will not forget Grs2. I will play it tomorrow.

I thought that you had swapped.

@conehead did you start this or should we let grs take it?

Originally Posted by conehead Aug 06, 2004, 11:19 PM
I will not forget Grs2. I will play it tomorrow.

When I said that I meant that I would play Grs2 tomorrow. I should have worded it better.

grs can you play now? if so go ahead

Sorry for the delay. Will finish it tomorrow!

Have fun with it grs. I don't think I left you to large of a mess. (not larger than normal anyway :lol: )

PreTurn: hire a scientist to start metallurgy - we want cavalry! - at min; switch all legion builds to knights; kill 2 babylonian longbows
360AD: army built; we take Brundisium back; Gonzomonium founded
370AD: nothing special
380AD: Amiens is razed
390AD: new leader - new army
400AD: we can now build the Pentagon, but we should only rush it, we need any shield we can get; kill an american settler and disband 2 more slaves; Babylon has knights
410AD: Lunacantorium founded; capture 2 Russian settlers and disband units
420AD: America shows a knight; French a musket; capture British settler and disband
430AD: see Russian and German knights; new leader hurries The Pentagon in Syracuse
440AD: battles
450AD: more battles

About rushing knights: we could shortrush them with temples or granaries, which is much more effecitve. We may or may not lose Cumae on the interturn. I used a knight to block, he needs at least 1 win.

It may read good, but it played awefull. We need a turnaround now with knights and live on till cavalry.

The Save (PreTurn:http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Mistfit_SG003_AD0450_01.SAV)

It is indeed a good read. Nice turns grs.

Turn order

grs
conhead234 -up
marconos -
DJMGator13 -
Mistfit -




Civ 1 - FRA 2630BC - at war
Civ 2 - GRK - 1830BC - at war
Civ 3 - ENG - 1300BC - at war
Civ 4 - RUS - 800BC - at war
Germany declares on us 590BC
Civ 5 - BAB - 390BC - at war declared 410 BC
Civ 6 - USA - 10AD - at war
Civ 7 - GER - 330AD -at war can wait until 530 AD to start next if we meet someone
Civ 8 - tba - 530AD Remember we need to declare immediately if we meet someone after this date
Civ 9 - tba - 730AD
Civ 10 - tba - 930AD
Civ 11 - tba - 1130AD

Reviewed the map. It appears that we are really on our heals quite a bit. The Babs are really pushing up the troops. Way to go in expanding with that level of fighting GRS

This is what I was doing the last time I played and it seemed to work fairly well for defense. I would run cats along this line to pop a few points off of incoming units, Kill off any that get yellow or red with Legions. They will leave to heal. Meanwhile we can head out with one of our armies, all of our knights, a few pikes, a few legions for MP's and a settler to expand. I'd say keep pumping the cats out of our southern and outlying areas for defense and keep the knights and settlers comming from our core.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Line_of_Defense.jpg
Interesting Note: Our military Advisor says that we are strong compared to everyone else. I'm sure this is because of our Armies, but it is nice to hear. We need to take a chunk out of the Babs and the Americans as they are the 2 strongest teams ahead of us.

Sorry for the double post but I think it is time to place that last city NE of Rome we might be able to put one army in there and it will claim the Saltpeter. This may move the defensive line to the north, we will have to play with it to see

I agree with that. It will be on a hill and the enemy will be attacking across water. It will give us a nice holding position and make it easy to connect up the saltpeter with only 1 road tile needed. I would suggest building walls there immediately.

I'd rather try to remove greek and settle the backfield first (se and ne area till coast or map border). But any city we can place (and hold!) would be good. I would prefer us to build knights - cavalries, because we need fast units. Cats will only slow us down now.

Anyone hear from Conehead?

I agree if we could take San Fran, Corinth and Samarra we could try to defend our northern front while wiping up the Greek and the few cities to the south. But my plan that I laid out above was for if we needed to regroup and heal for 5 or 10 turns. If you can expand by all means do so.

ok, I got it.

I don't know if grs ran into this but watch the south western cities, The greeks ran 2 gallies up and dropped off units near towns that I did not have well defended or I had them empty. I had to do some scrambling to cover them before they were taken.

A thought that I have has is we need to build the sistene chapel. Not because we need the happiness but to keep some other nation from getting it. We want the war weariness that the other nations are feeling to get really bad so there production really starts taking a hit. I would say use one of the next three leaders to rush it in an outlying city. This will also increase our culture and push the border out faster.

There are two way to kill an enemy ... kill their troops or stop their production of them.

CHARLEY IS FORECAST TO INTENSIFY AND COULD BECOME A CATEGORY THREE
HURRICANE AS IT APPROACHES THE SUNCOAST LATER THIS AFTERNOON...WITH
WINDS IN THE INNER EYEWALL PERHAPS AT LEAST 130 MPH WITH HIGHER
GUSTS.

We might loose comunications with Gator soon as the the hurrican is suposed to hit Fla this afternoon/evening

@Marconos-I personally do not think we can afford to build the sistines brick by brick but it may come into consideration if we get a slew of leaders. Right now I think troops and Settlers are all we can count on building in the near future.

I agree that we should not build brick. Only rush it if we get a couple of leaders in the next three sets of turns.

We should not waste a leader on rushing sistines. We need armies (kinghts or better cavs) and lots of them. Sistines is of no importance to us.

Agreed. More units more destruction. :nya:

Hey guys, as you know the storm made it to Cat 4 before making landfall. Until about 2pm Friday the eye was forecasted to pass right over the top of me in Lake County (and also Scoutsout, who is in Marion County). The quicker NNE turn brought it in south of us and we are all ok, only got about 30 mph winds here.

The eye passed over Orlando which is only about 35 miles from where I live, but is to the east and all the power/damage was to the north and northeast of the eye. Sounds like there is a lot of people who did not take it serious though.

Good to hear from you Gator. Glad everything went ok.

It was kinda of a slow day at the office today so I got to messing with your Av.
I cleaned it up a bit and darkened some of the lines.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Gator_Av.gif

Yes, good to hear from you - we even had it in the news here. Everything ok at yours?