If you milk the game I'll guillotine you ;)
Because other teams (particularly the Staff team :p ) are a long way from the end of the game it may be possible for you to milk to the better end, and I may delay the start of the next game a little to allow more teams to finish. But if you think you are going to spend another 3 months milking this game then please think again. :)

Again, I'm with Peanut. Rome must conquer all! I vote for seeing the variant through even if it takes longer than the 30 turns we need to beat Smackster.

Now about the save... I've been looking it over and am concerned about how thin our forces are spread in the north. Can you guys give me any suggestions? I'm tempted to retreat the severely wounded army by Babylon to a city to heal. I'm going to move the MP's to the front and to the coast as civ steve suggests. Build ships... I guess my main problem is how to regroup and deploy our northern offensive forces.

Since mad-bax had the opportunity to comment on the teleporter question and didn't I say let's go for it. The "spirit" of this game is total domination and if this will help us dominate, lets do it.

The teleportation trick is not specifically banned in GOTM. Sorry I didn't deal with it earlier. I only scan read the threads most of the time and can miss stuff once in a while. :)

Milking?!? You must have a lot of time on your hand, Keith!! ;) IMO, you may take the next to last save and have at it, if you wish. Let's get this game done as quickly as possible.

Peglegasus: yes, any significantly damaged Armies will have to retreat to the nearest city to heal. Since they can move 9 spaces in one turn, we want to be sure we have a Settler/Legion/Cannon stack following the Cav as they go in. That way we can form a city to heal the offensive units and form a base of operations. 9 Movement along roads will cover a lot of territory, so we don't have to have cities everywhere; pick a few spots that are spaced appropriately. Single Cav units with 3 or mor HitPoints of damage are also healed more quickly by retreating them to a city. And if a Cav is vulnerable anyway, better to retreat it than to lose it.

Maybe we plan to use the Teleportation trick to move our Armies over; there is no other way to get them engaged without it. We only need a Caravel or two to conquer the thin continent; just ove 3 Legions/Cav over, here and there and let them work their way towards each other. I'd leave lookout units spaced along the thin continent, just to be sure no one from the 2nd continent sneaks over.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier; my hotel didn't have a business center so I could check in on things. I'm at the airport now, and will be home tonight.

All right, I'm halfway through my turns. Things are going slowly but well. Slow partly because our units were spread out in the north and partly because I'm probably over cautious. We have yet another army. Greece has been kicked off the mainland and there are no foreign cities left in the south, though there are galleys of all colors rushing down that way now. I've been upgrading units as I go of course and I've had a little windfall crushing a couple English cities. We have over 1000 gold in the treasury which equals 20 cavalry upgrades, but I've got no horses left to spend it on. Here's the big question: anyone mind me pop-rushing about 20 or so horses? Having another 20 cav ready to go all at once would ROCK.

I think that especially in our towns that are getting to size six and seven that right now this would be much more useful than having them build a settler.

I have no problem pop-rushing in cities that are little 1-shield producers, ones that are highly corrupted. Coastal cities should focus on Caravels exclusively; we don't want to crush all opponents on our continent, and then sit for 20 turns twiddling our fingers because we have no navy (the current case.)

I'm hesitant to pop-rush in centrally located cities; take a close look to see if it makes sense. The extra unhappiness reduces the number of stable working citizens by one, usually meaning 1 or 2 fewer shields per turn. This unhappiness lasts for 20 turns, I believe. So if you lose 1 shield/turn, you in effect borrow the 20 shields and pay it back over the next 20 turns. If you lose 2 shields/turn, you end up paying 100% interest. Depending on the city's situation, you might be losing a shield that was lost already due to increased Waste; in this case you can actually gain the 20 shields for free. Of course you also lose the food and commerce of that citizen too. Under Republic I'd say never, but in Despotism, with a lot of cash looking for units to upgrade, it might be worth it.

BTW, if we limit any new Armies we make to just 2 units loaded into them (an Army with 2 Cavs for instance), we will be able to transport these Armies with our Caravels. I'd recommend not fully loading new Armies until After transport to the 2nd continent.

Ok I'll see what I can come up with.

Peglegasus: I added a note about armies in my post; just in case you missed it.

Got it, Steve! Almost done. Gotta finish my last turn and I'm taking a break to rest my eyes :crazyeye: . Never have I marshalled such a huge force so all the units take a while for me to move. It's been fun and quite a learning experience for me. I think the AI have just about exhausted themselves as the counter attacks now are very weak.

Finished now. Gonna do my log but in the meantime... here is the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1150_01.SAV)

Turn log 1050AD to 1150AD

I'm not going to detail every single unit's move because there are just so darn many.

Turn 0: Move some interior units around. Upgrade a few warriors. Send a cavalry down to Reading (English). It is protected by spearmen.

Turn 1: 1060AD: Upgrade lots of units. Cavalry attacks Reading and kills spear. Another defending. Elite cavalry stomps Eretria, kicking Greece off the continent. 2 Greek workers killed. Scattered enemies here and there taken care of. Armies healing up a bit and getting into position for next assault.

Turn 2: 1070AD: Wipe out Russian settler party. See barbarian camps in the southern mountains! I haven't seen barbs the whole game. Elite cavalry scores a Great Leader- build army. More unit upgrades. More scattered enemies wiped out.

IBT: Lose a legion in Tyrus to counter attack. England drops longbow by Antium. Deja Vu! Berlin completes Smith's Trading Post. 3 German cavalry approaching Trapezus.

Turn 3: 1080AD: Cavalry crush spearmen and longbow in Reading and torch the town. We fill an army with new cavalry.

IBT: 6 enemy cavalry attack various targets. All are unsuccessful and retreat, redlined.

Turn 4: 1090AD: Cavalry armies attack Warwick, killing 3 muskets. Don't have anyone available to finish the job! Attacking armies are left with 8/18, 9/17, and 12/18 health. We pillage our iron. Sink an English caravel with our new boat.

Turn 5: 1100AD: Warwick razed. Score a catapult and disband 3 English workers. Pillage saltpeter. New Neapolis founded. Hurry caravel in Hippo Regius for 1 pop. Hurry caravels also in Jerusalem, Corinium, and Sirminium. Hurry horseman in Gonzomonium.

IBT: Lose 1 cav to counter attack.

Turn 6: 1110AD: Cavalry army crushes Rheims and destroys a settler. French capital now on land bridge. I think it is their only city now. New Pompeii founded. American settler part destroyed.

Turn 7: 1120AD: Cavalry armies destroy Ellipi. The Greeks have planted a new city on the south coast. I have 3 cavalry breaking up barb camps down there and patrolling for just such an incursion. They'll take care of the Greeks next turn. Elite cavalry attacking York generates another Great Leader! York is destroyed.

IBT: Lose 1 elite cavalry in counter attacks.

Turn 8: 1130AD: New Pisae founded. We now have furs! Armies crush Eridu. Patrolling cavalry in the south smash the new Greek city, Pergamon. New Ravenna founded.

Turn 9: 1140AD: New Hispalis founded. We now have gems! Nineveh crushed by cavalry armies. 4 workers put to death. Babylonian settler party destroyed. Coventry crushed! Leeds is the new English capital over on the land bridge. No English cities left on the continent. Rush a caravel in Laurianum (sp?).

Turn 10: 1150AD: Unload 3 cavalry on the center land bridge by the Greek city of Halicarnassus. Upgrade 12 horses to cavalry. Americans have a city on the south coast now. Lots of ruins down there! Send some legions to pay them a visit. Wounded armies moved to New Hispalis to heal and prepare for the attack on Babylon. Babylonians only have 3 cities left on the continent. Teurnia rushes a caravel. Nicopolis, Londinium, and Curia rush horsemen.


And that's it. We have 2 empty armies at the moment. One is in JASP and the other is in London wuz here. Aesonesium is building a harbor to upgrade our galleys. There are three legions in a caravel ready to head for the center land bridge. Maybe they should hook up with the cavalry I just dropped off.

I discovered that New Antium is not connected so roads need to be built there. New Pompeii is also not connected but workers have just about reached it. There is a settler under the stack by Babylon that has the knight army on it. I hadn't quite decided where to put him...

There are legions in the mountains up north. They were there for cover for the attacking cavalry and I left them to watch for units coming from the northeast.

I was building horsemen in our corrupt cities this time with the intent of pop rushing a few. I discovered that when there are 20 turns left on a horse you can pop rush it for 1 citizen. I didn't pop rush anything that would take more than one citizen. Anyway there are quite a few towns that will be in this position in the next couple turns. Most of our core towns will have produced a horse by turn 4 as well so they can all be upgraded and saltpeter disconnected again. We have tons of legions now. Do we need any more?

We have 11 caravels now I think. 4 or 5 galleys are waiting for upgrades. None of the AI ships attacked any of ours. I think they are using them for settlers so it's unlikely they'll attack. Can't think of anything else.

Edit: I thought of something else. We are researching navigation at the moment with a scientist. I don't remember reading anything about that- must have missed it. Anyway we have a bunch of gold now from raiding England's coffers and could pump research up if we need to. I don't remember how many turns were left on navigation.

Edit again: Bother, I could have rushed Magellan's with one of my leaders and didn't think of it. Was so focused on breaking stuff, you know? Maybe if we get another leader soon...

Also I think we declare war on India next. 1180 AD or something like that?

Yet another edit:

India: declare war by 1180AD
Aztecs: declare war by 1315AD
Iroquois: declare war by 1415AD

Excellent progress, General Peglegasus ! We should soon have those upstart foreigners expelled from Greater Rome in short order, and soon thereafter we will have expelled them completely from Planet Rome !

We should build a palace soon I suspect to give us a good productive second core, even if we decide to use the teleportation stunt. Perhaps somewhere up the west coast - maybe even old London ? This will give CS's excellent invasion plan a good boost.

We can't rush Magellans until we have Navigation, however we can purchase it from India for WM+670g, which sounds cheap. I think it is well worth getting Navigation & Magellans. However we had better buy it before we declare war on India in 1180.

General Bigchief - are you waiting in the wings ? If so, duty calls !

I haven't looked at the save, but it sounds like very good progress, General Peglegasus!!

Getting Navigation from the Indians will be well worth it, although it would be nice to get it for gpt right before we declare :) (chances are Gandhi wont go for that so we'll have to buy it outright, most likely). With Navigation we can cross safely and not worry about losing our ships.

Magellen's would give us an additional movement point; a NW Palace near the former English core would give us faster Caravels. I'm leaning more towards the Palace move first; more ships means we can really swamp them when we invade.

Peglegasus: pop-rushing gives you up to 20 shields for your citizen; so a very corrupt city can gain 10 shields over 10 turns towards a Horseman, then pop-rush for the remaining 20. Works well for Galleys, too. It is possible with a size 3 city to pop-rush for 40 shields by doing short-rushing: you start off with 1 shield in the bin, then start building a Spearman, pop-rush from size 3 to size 2 to fill the bin with 20 shields, then switch the build to a Caravel say (same turn), then pop-rush from size 2 to size 1, finishing the Caravel the following turn. To pop-rush the Caravel directly would require a size 4 city, since you may not pop-rush more than half your citizens in one step. (And I was somewhat groggy in my earlier post when I said "Under Republic I'd say never (pop-rush) ..." Well, duh!! It's not an option; cash rushing only!! :lol: )

I wouldn't put too many forces on the long thin continent; unless Mad-Bax has modified it, you wont be able to connect through to the other continent. We should have a few groups of units, gradually eliminating the cities there, and leave periodic lookouts to prevent the 2nd continent civs from landing and founding new cities.

bigchief: you're up!!

Now I HAVE looked at the save; what a sea of red cities!! We are looking quite dominating (Peanuts on Steroids!)

It's been over 24 hours so I'll post a got it for now, and I'll play a little later unless we hear from bigchief soon. I know there's a lot going on in his life right now, but I'd also like to give him every opportunity to take his turn.

OK, I've finished the turn set. There's a couple more tweaks to do first, and I've got a party I'm going to this afternoon.

So, for some fun and to generate some interaction, I'm posting a pool:

The AI landscape has changed quite a bit. :D Two questions:

How many AI cities are left on our continent (between 1-6), and which cities and nationalities?

And, how many AI are no longer in the Game (between 1-6), and which ones are gone?

What are your pool enties? I'll post the turn log and answers later tonight.

Wow, that's crazy! Ok, I would guess that Greece, France, Russia and England are gone from the game. And I will guess that there are six cities left on the continent, and they are American cities.

Thank you for participating in the pool, Peglegasus! (And sorry this has taken this long; it was a pretty nice birthday get-together today and we just got home.)

Here are the minimaps from 1150 and 1250 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1150Mini.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1250Mini.JPG

So the answers are:

2 AI cities left on our continent (Minsk, Russian and Berlin, German, and there are 9 Cav, with 0 or 1 hitpoint down, ready to attack Berlin next turn)

And 4 AI's are gone: France, Babylon, Greece and England, in that order.

Here is the turnlog:

Turn 0, 1150 AD
Shortrush a Caravel in Lugdunum
Change Teurnium build to Harbor
Change Aesonium build to Caravel
Move wounded Cavs fortified with Legion army to Augustodorum's Revenge

(IBT Two German Cav attack, killing a lonely Cav and a Legion (They Shall PAY!!
Babylon builds a city directly adjacent to Legion Army
other things move around, mostly ships)

Turn 1, 1160 AD
Lots of Horsemen finish (interesting, with Saltpeter connected, Horsemen still finish)
Some Settlers started
I pop-rush anything pop-rushable
2 Wounded German Cav canned
New Bab city put to the torch
Encroaching Bab Musket cannoned and Legioned
2 Cav dismember Ur's defenders (1 Musket, 1 Pike), Ur is razed and 6 Workers disbanded
Babylon is rushed by 1 Knight Army and 4 Cav's; lose 1 Cav, Kill 2 defenders, get 2 Retreats so 2 wounded Defenders
Commit 2 Wounded Armies from New Hispalis; Babylon is done!!
Abe has MilTrad, so there's not much reason to leave him be
Assault Helicarnassus; a LongB is left

(IBT, an American Cav emerges to attack one of our Cavs, a Valiant Legion sacrifices itself to protect the Cav
Americans land a Musket/Settler in the NNE (near Vladivostok)
Greeks start JS Bach's :lol: )

Turn 2, 1170 AD
Lots of stuff finishes
Helicarnassus rubbled (lost 1 Cav, though)
Denver leveled in South (lost 1 Legion)
Besancon attacked, kill 2 Spear, lose 1 Legion
more Landings on Thin Continent
Amer Musket/Stlr run over by Cav
Vladivostok razed by 1 Cav (1 Pike defending)
Buy Nav from Indians for 630 Gold and WM

(IBT, Amer and Germ Cav do in to Legions)


Turn 3, 1180 AD
2 Legions take Leeds down to a LongB defender
Legion takes out Besancon's LongB; France is First To Go!
Germ Cav done
Kiev is Razed (lose 1 Cav)
7 Cav in Hills adj to Frankfurt (ha ha, Bismark! It's your turn!)
Settler/Musket with Cavs ready to form city in American territory (Abe's turn as well!)
11 Caravels will support original landing in India; set up for 2nd landing zone in Aztecia
Oh yeah; India take this declaration of war!
BTW, everybody has MilTrad except the Iroqouis

(IBT Amer Cav finally succombs to a fortified Legion in Hills
Indian Musket/Settler lands on our continent, right next to our Legion Army)

Turn 4, 1190 AD
Legion Army kills Indian Musk/Stlr; hey there's a Japanese Samurai/Stlr stack here as well, no squatters allowed!
Samurai is Catapulted/Cannoned than Cavalried (Welcome to our Continent, Torunaga!)
Rome's American Outpost is founded, starts on Walls of course
Cav Army attacks Philly; only 1 Musket defender and it is razed
3 Cav Armies and 3 Cav advance on Washington
2 Cav Armies and 4 Cav advance on Akkad
Leeds is razed (losing 1 Legion)
Saltpeter is Pillaged (it took a few turns, but a lot of Horsemen switched to Cavalry builds)
Frankfurt is razed (losing 1 Cav); consolidate in region
Marathon is razed, generating Claudius! He must be returned safely to the mainland for his victory parade.

(IBT, Engl land a LongB near Antium ... that is it!)

Turn 5, 1200 AD
Pillage Iron and start on Horsemen again!
Eng LongB is done in (promotion for Vet Cav)
2 Cav Armies do in Washington
1 Cav Army and 4 Cav adv to Boston
1 Cav Army and 3 Cav adv to New York
1 Cav Army levels Akkad
1 Cav Army and 4 Cavs adv to St Petersburg
A Legion razes Nippur
A Cav burns Shruppuk to the Groung; Babylon is Second to Go!!
Rhodes kills 1 Legion, and barely survives
Cav kills Greek Hop/Stlr stack near Troy
5 Cav adv to Smolensk

(IBT, India gets Iroqouis to Ally against us,
Greek LongB from Troy attacks Cav, and loses)

Turn 6, 1210 AD
1 Cav razes Sevastopol
7 Cav advancd to Hamburg
St Pete's is razed, losing 1 Cav
2 Cav Armies and 3 Cav adv to Moscow
New York is razed, losing 1 Cav; retreat to heal
Boston is razed with just 1 Cav Army
5 Cav advance on Seattle
Rhodes is razed

(IBT Eng Caravel sinks attacking one of ours)

Turn 7, 1220 AD
Exeter hangs in there
We advance on Troy
3 Armies adv towards Atlanta
Seattle is razed
Moscow is razed by 1 Cav Army! Russia is nearly off the continent.
Advance on Chicago
Hamburg is razed
6 Cav adv on Leipzig

(IBT Germ Cav comes out to clear Barb Camp
Eng LongB kills Legion near Exeter)

Turn 8, 1230 AD
Claudius rushes Magellen's Voyage
Leipzig is razed
Chicago is razed
1 Knight and 3 Cav Armies have Atlanta in their sights
3 Cav advance on SanFran
3 Cav advance on Munich
1 Cav Army and 4 Cav adv on Konigsberg
Nuremburg is put to the sword
Heidelburg is trampled
A Germ Spear/Stlr stack has an unfortunate accident
Germany's foreign holdings are no more

(IBT, lose a Cav to a Germ Cav)

Turn 9, 1240 AD
Troy is no more, and so are the Greeks; Greeks are Third To Go!!!
Eng LongB near Exeter is trampled; Cav are closing in
Knight Army does Atlanta
1 Cav does in San Fran's lone Spear; Abe is exiled!
3 Cav do the trick; Munich is razed
Just enought; the forces investing Konigsberg raze it; Berlin is only German continental city left
Raze Dallas; Abe snuck a Settler over
Tblisi is razed

(IBT, Germ Cav loses when attacking one of our Cav)

Turn 10, 1250 AD
Exeter is taken, losing 1 Cav; England is Fourth To Go!!!!
... And, we get Anthony! A GL for a Palace move.
Consolidate
9 Cav advance on Berlin, last AI city on our continent
Sink a German Galley, losing a Caravel, in the South
Trade Aztecs Condimentum for WM
Trade Aztecs Suffimentum for Music Theory, Printing Press
Gift Aztecs our 3rd available Luxury
(Intent is to keep them at Peace until we land large stacks of units
Our reputation is of no consequence, of course)

End of Turnlog

All our Galleys are upgraded, and 11 are congregated at the proper crossing to land at the Hill spot in India in two turns (since we have Magellans now). A stack of units is growing at a spot that's one turn away from loading onto our Caravels, so this is a good rally location on the coast. There's two settlers in the stack, so one could form a town here, and the other form a town at the India invasion spot.

We are now at war with India, and the Iroqouis as well. India got them to ally against us. So only the Aztecs are still at peace with us. I just made a series of deals that got 3 of our luxuries in their hands. I hope that will keep them from declaring until we're ready to land a large stack of units in their territory. To support this, I've started a rally point at Cumae, and have most of the Caravels near there to support a two-turn crossing that can land at a Hill site adjacent to Malinalco. (Wont Montezuma be surprised!)

So my thought is to get 33 units available in the NorthWest to land in India: 1 Settler, a couple of Muskets (upgraded from Spearmen), maybe 8 or so Cannons to defend the initial landing, 2 Cav armies (I've only loaded one Cav in each so they can be transported, 6 more Cav to fill the armies after they've been transported, 6 additional Cav for loose operations, and 6 Legions to defend the intitial site. (I think that's 33 units.)

If we decide to do the Palace Transporter trick, we will need to transport Anthony (who is currently on the thin continent with Cav defense; a Caravel is in position to transport him over to our main continent next turn) over to the Indian landing site to rush Palace there. Meanwhile our big Knight and Cav Armies need to co-locate to one remote town. Once our Palace has been moved we gift the town to the Aztecs (only civ we're not at war with), which should teleport these large, untransportable armies to our Palace, now on the 2nd continent, where they can wreak havoc on India and Japan. That will be a sizeable reinforcement to our Northern landing site, and only a few other units should be needed (although we should build a 2nd core around this Palace site.)

There's a lot of units starting to accumulate near Cumae to support a 2nd Invasion into the Aztec lands. If we don't do the Teleport, some of these units should be shifted North to support the 1st landing site; otherwise, we should soon be in position to invade Aztecs as well.

Saltpeter will be reconnected next turn, and we have over 20+ Horsemen to upgrade. The pop-rushing once there are 20 turns left has worked well; I use the F1 screen and sort by unit being built to scan through for Horsemen and Caravels that I can pop-rush. We may need to disconnect Saltpeter again, although the game has gone pretty quickly.

At both invasion sites, the initial offensive against our units should be fairly intense, so I wouldn't strike out much until that initial surge dies down; with Cannons, and being on a hill, we shouldn't lose many units to this initial set of attacks. And if we plan to do the Teleport trick, I wouldn't be surprised if we land units at both sites within the next set of turns.

Half of the thin continent has been cleared out, and Caravels are available in the North to transport over units to finish the job once Berlin and Minsk are razed. I'd keep units space out after the thin continent is cleared just to keep track of any units the AI may land later. Same for the Northern part of our continent; Barbs are starting to pop up, but shouldn't bother us much. And I'm moving 2 Settlers to the former Greek zone to fill in our cultural boundary and keep the barbs from popping up.

Well, it looks like we wont unseat Team Smackster for fastest variant team; I hope to be present in force on the 2nd continent by 1300 and that's about all. Still I think we're in good position to move into #2 position, beating out Team X for 1st runner-up, so far.

Keith Larson: you're UP!! No declarations required during your turn (1315 required against the Aztecs), but if you think the time is ripe to open a 2nd front, go for it.

(Edit: looking at the minimaps, it appears that Japan has taken two cities from the Aztecs. If so, they have likely partially depleted each other's offensive units, so this should be a very good time to invade.)

1250 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1250_01.SAV)

Got it! Will play as I have opportunity.

I hate to do this, but I honestly don't think I can get to my round today. So, next up!

That is too bad, Keith! The carnage potential for the next set of turns is high!! :D

So who can play next? Peanut? Or would bigchief like to take Keith's spot?

I have a truckload of work to do today so if Bigchief can pick it up that would be great. I will check back tonight.

Apologies fellow Generals. Some clown keeps refilling the truck as fast as I can empty it !

It looks like Bigchief is out of circulation at the moment, and I am not going to have a free evening for two days yet. So Keith, if you are free then grab it, otherwise it's back to you General Peglegasus. We are at a particularly interesting stage of the game now and it pains me to have to pass this time.

I can give it a go tomorrow if no one else is available.

Peglegasus: it looks like its yours if bigchief or Keith don't speak up!

I wish I would have checked my email last evening because I could have done the move. This evening is my daughter's b-day party. So it looks like Peglegasus again.

At this stage, what do you all think of the teleporter trick? At first I felt it was too much of an exploit. But then again, it isn't banned in GOTM games. I think if we had used that and gotten the fastest finish some of the other teams might have looked down on that. But of course now we aren't going for fastest finish, just trying to finish... fast. Man that sounds silly, but I think you know what I mean. :crazyeye:

With the other continent having cavalry now I think we should go for it. It is out of character for the variant, but we could plant a city... hey does anyone know latin? We could use the latin word for sacrifice or some such thing and use that as the "gift" city. An offering to the gods to speed our great war. And of course have forces on hand to immediately raze it afterwards.

I'm in favor of it, primarily to transport our large Armies over. We have sufficient Caravels to transport the other units over as is, and we'll need to get a large force present to hold the new city/capital. I think the best time is just before declaring on the Aztecs - that way we gift the cities, transport our Armies, declare and retake. Since we gifted the city, all the citizens will be Aztecs, so it will have to be razed. One of the outpost cities in the North would do just fine.

I'm about halfway through. Will finish in the morning.

That palace teleporter is completely insane! Sent 18 cavalry, 7 legions, various cannons and I think a couple of old catapults, and of course our armies. Almost finished now...

Ok, done. Here is the save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1305_01.SAV)

Will have to do my log a little later. To sum up: Cleared our continent. Cleared some of the center divide but had real bad luck with the RNG there. Had a super spearman in Baltimore take down 3 legions and one elite cav! Renamed New Hispalis to "Devoveo" which supposedly means sacrifice in Latin. Gifted Devoveo to the Aztecs after our palace was completed in our new outpost "Rome Conquers All". Armies transported to new world along with lots of other units. Declared war on Aztecs and landed forces next to Malinalco. Razed Devoveo. Crushed 3 Indian towns. Smashed some newly founded Japanese colonies on our northern frontier. Barbarians running around all over the place.

Overall not tremendously exciting as it was mostly preparation for the invasion. It's going to be the NEXT set of turns when the real madness begins :lol: I hope I set things up all right.

Awesome!! :D I can't wait to see the save, and your turnlog!

I've gotten a chance to load the save. Wow!! I'm not a total warmonger in my games, so I'm pretty impressed by all the units we now have stacked up in TWO very nice invasion sites!! The next set of turns will be lots of fun (but not for the AI)!! I also see that Russia and Germany have joined the list of "AI who are no longer soiling our fine Roman World".

We will need to bring some Workers over to connect our northern landing site with the road network (oops). We should also establish (as we push out), some outposts in Japanese territory (I figure somewhere between Tokyo and Kyoto) and Indian territory (near Bombay); these will provide convenient forward healing spots for our Cavalry. A Settler accompanied by some Cannons and lots of Legions will work to form these outposts. (And a 3rd one somewhere about 9 moves forward of our Aztec landing site, as well.)

We should build some more towns around our new Palace; the game wont last long, but Palace moves to another continent should be accompanied by forming a 2nd core around the new Palace. Otherwise the Palace move may run afoul of the GOTM's rule against the Rank Corruption Exploit.

Alright, we haven't seen Pelgegasus' turn log yet (11 turns BTW, but I think the extra turn allowed Peglegasus to complete the operations he was undertaking which is a good thing rather than trying to explain how to finish what he was in the middle of.) Who wants it next? Bigchief is up, but Keith and Peanut passed so I'd think any one of those three can claim the next set of turns.

Turn log 1255AD to 1305AD (oops. extra turn there)

I'm not detailing all unit moves because there are just too many units now!

Turn 0: move a few units around. Not much to do really. Everything looks good.

Turn 1: 1255AD: Attack Berlin. Able to take down 2 muskets but lose 3 cav! The rest of our cavalry all retreat, redlined. Berlin stands. Scramble a few more cavalry to try again in a turn or two. Hell, I'm bringing an army in, too!

Lots of units upgraded. Begin loading caravels at our northern rally point. Going with Civ Steve's suggestion of 1 settler, 2 muskets, 8 cannon, 2 partially loaded cav armies, 12 cavalry, and 6 legions. Look around for a centrally located northern frontier town to make our "sacrifice" and move our armies over to the new continent. New Hispalis looks good. Send all armies there, except the army deployed to Berlin.

Our leader is loaded onto a caravel for transport. I plan to drop him on the main continent since he will have a move of 9 on the roads. It still will take a few turns for him to get to the rally point.

IBT: A Russian longow outside Berlin shows off for his German buddies and takes out an elite cavalry. You'll get yours soon enough!

Turn 2: 1260AD: Odessa razed. Yakutsk razed. Russian settler party trampled. There is a new Japanese town in the far north. Send some legions that way. Cavalry army plus 3 fresh cav crush Berlin. Germany is now out of the game. There were 8 workers in Berlin.

Pop rush 4 horses.

IBT: Barbarians all over the north and on the dividing land bridge attack a few units but all defend. Lots of barbs all over. Quiet other than that.

Looking at my notes, this is where I accidentally did an extra turn.
Turn 3: 1270AD: The Japanese outpost of Toyama is razed by legionaries. 11 caravels begin the crossing to India.

IBT: Nothing other than barb activity.

Turn 4: 1270AD: Sverdlovsk razed. Pop rush 3 horses. Japanese galley drops off a settler and a samurai.

Turn 5: 1275AD: Patrolling legions ambush Japanese settler party. Samurai is redlined and retreats. Settler is destroyed. Our invasion force lands in India at the suggested landing site. Minsk is razed and Russia is no more! The Continent of Rome is now soiled only by one wounded samurai and an unknown number of barbarians.

I brace myself and prepare for the madness our landing party will face, take a deep breath, and hit enter.

IBT: 2 Indian cavalry attack the landing party. Muskets defend. Is that all? Another Japanese samurai and settler are dropped off.

Turn 6: 1280AD: Settler in landing party founds "Rome Conquers All" on the hill. I immediately realize it may have been a bad move. We aren't connected by any roads. The hills by Jaipur a little north might have been better. Oh well. It actually may help a little in our initial defense. Enemies will have to use an extra move if they attack and attempt to retreat.

There is another problem. Indian culture is a bit overwhelming and if our city flips... now that would just make me cry I think. We don't even have the full 9 tiles we would normally have within our border. Anthony isn't here yet to build the palace. He is a few turns behind. I wanted to get units here sooner rather than later and send the ships back quickly for reinforcements and for Anthony. So, I will boldly go for Madras. This should reduce the culture enough to prevent a quick flip. Load up cav army and attack Madras, killing musket and taking no damage. Vet cav kills musket. vet cav loses to war elephant. Vet cav kills elephant and razes Madras. All units but one are able to retreat to RCA. I feel much better now. Rome Conquers All should be safe from a culture flip.

Saltpeter pillaged. Pop rush 4 horses.

IBT: RCA defends against 1 samurai and 1 Indian cavalry.

Turn 7: 1285AD: Forces on the central dividing continent are trudging their way north. There really aren't any roads to speak of. Cincinnati is crushed. Attack Baltimore with 3 legions. All 3 fail! Pop rush 8 horses.

IBT: 2 Indian cav attack RCA and retreat redlined. Defense holding strong. The only thing I don't like about the defense is that the armies there are defending and taking lots of damage. I'd rather use them offensively, but at the same time I keep thinking that there have got to be a ton of enemies moving on this site, and I HAVE to hold it until Anthony can build the palace and we can move the rest of our armies over.

Turn 8: 1290AD: Salt peter reconnected. Upgrade 14 horses. Pop rush 3 horses. Use cannons in RCA to injure enemy units and then cavalry finish them and then retreat to the city.

IBT: 1 samurai and 3 Indian cavalry attack RCA. More units approaching. Heating up a bit now.

Turn 9: 1295AD: Super spearman in Baltimore defends against elite cavalry! Grrrr. Pop rush 5 horses.

Our armies in New Hispalis are fully healed now and ready for war. They have been joined by more cavalry, legions, cannons and a couple catapults. New Hispalis is renamed "Devoveo" for the sacrifice it's citizens will now make.

IBT: Now things getting messy at RCA. The armies are badly wounded after defending so well. RCA is attacked by 6 samurai and 1 Indian cavalry (I'm beginnig to think that Japan may not have saltpeter. Haven't checked the map though.) Armies are redlined, we lose 2 muskets and one cavalry. Some walls would be nice, but that's too small a job for Anthony, who arrives next turn. Anthony says: I can't be bothered with such trifles!

Turn 10: 1300AD: Reinfrcements arrive in RCA. Anthony rushes the palace. Cannons work on 2 samurai and a war elephant. Elite cavalries finish them all and retreat to the city. I'm finally able to take out Baltimore! It was becoming a real thorn in my side. India has built a new city south of RCA. We crush it.

IBT: 3 samurai attack RCA. All killed. Japanese galley attacks caravel off our NW coast and fails.

Turn 11: 1305AD: The palace is complete. Here goes!

In Devoveo we have 1 legion army, 1 knight army, and 7 cavalry armies. There are also 18 cavalry, 7 legions, and a bunch of artillery pieces. We gift Devoveo to the Aztecs... The gods look kindly on our sacrifice and our forces are now stationed in Rome Conquers All! We declare war on the Aztecs and Devoveo is destroyed. Our second invasion force lands on a hill next to Malinalco.

I use 4 armies to attack Bangalore. All of the Indian cavalry that managed to retreat headed up there. Armies find muskets defending, and then wounded cavalry and war elephants. Our attacking armies now look like this healthwise: 14/18, 10/18, 12/18, 4/18. 2 more lone cavalry finish the job... Bangalore is razed!

And that's all! Never in any game have I had a force like this. It's completely nuts! I hope I did a decent job setting the invasion up. It's something that I often have difficulty with. There are forces one tile north of RCA protecting a cannon I mis-keyed. They probably look odd there. I sent a bunch of cavalry south for a strike in that direction.

There are a few more units coming over on caravels, including three workers to build some roads around RCA. They should be able to do the job in just a few turns. Have a bunch of cities ready to bust out a settler in the next few turns so we can build around the palace to avoid fallout from possible rank corruption exploit claims. It didn't appear to me that the palace move really affected corruption much at all at home. I'm wondering if it's due to the fact that we are in Despotism.

I pretty much left America alone, other than marching a few units up the center divide and taking a couple cities. I figured the continental invasion was a bigger priority and America is in a pretty weak position at this point. I sunk a couple American galleys somewhere in those turns but didn't write it down. Think they were trying to get settlers back to the mainland.

There are legions and a couple cavalry scattered about the north to watch for enemy settlers and to hunt for barbs. They can also protect any settlers we send up there.

I took another look at the save and saw some things I should have taken care of.

After loading the caravels by New Viroconium I didn't wake them up and move them! They are carrying a few reinforcements and some workers. There is a Japanese settler in the NW that was jsut dropped off. There is a cavalry right there that can take care of him. New Antium(I think) is rioting because we keep forgetting to hook it up :blush: . And check F1 to see who is in danger of rioting. I didn't think about the fact that sacrificing Devoveo would give up our gems. We should get a settler up there soon. I think there's one a couple turns away actually.

There are caravels with reinforcements ready to land next turn in the Aztec lands. Should be enough cavalry to take Malinalco and probably 2 more towns down there. In the next turn we should aslo be able to take Calcutta and Jaipur.

Let me know if you guys notice anything else.

Was thinking about something else too. Maybe it's crazy, I don't know. I was thinking about the rank corruption thing . Do we really need a core on the new lands or could we just keep sending forces over to crush them? If we got a leader we could send him back to the mainland and move the palace again to a more acceptable spot that has already been developed. I think that would avoid accusations that we used the rank corruption exploit, which wasn't our intention at all. We just used the palace jump to jump our armies.

Good set of turns, Peglegasus! (Except for the Gem thing, but that's not a big deal really.) Since we know that Japan and the Aztecs had been at war in the recent set of turns, I didn't think the response to our landings would be overwhelming. And it is awkward that the Armies get to defend as much as they have to; still, there were plenty of other Cav units to clean up the plains around 'Rome Conquers All'. And you are on top of bringing Workers over to connect RCA to the local road network (a drawback, but being on the Hills was a definite requirement.)

I'd still build a bunch of Settlers, and either use a GL to bring the Palace back to, maybe the English-Babylon area and build in that area, or build up a 2nd core around the current Palace location. The game is nearly over; maybe the next 10 turns will do it!

Peglegasus, just to see what the effect was, could you post a screen shot of the F1 screens just before and just after moving the Palace to RCA? I wouldn't anticipate much benefit from the RCB when we're in Despotism, but this will tell us exactly what the effect on corruption was.

I'll be gone Saturday, coming back Sunday afternoon, so I wouldn't be able to play until Sunday night. So if Keith, Peanut or bigchief can play, please post a got it.

[QUOTE=civ_steve]
Peglegasus, just to see what the effect was, could you post a screen shot of the F1 screens just before and just after moving the Palace to RCA? I wouldn't anticipate much benefit from the RCB when we're in Despotism, but this will tell us exactly what the effect on corruption was.[/ QUOTE]

Actually I was just looking at this very thing with Ainwood's CivAssist program. It really didn't look like it had much effect in game, but it's actually rather dramatic when I check the saves with CivAssist. I will upload the 1295 save and the 1300 save and I recommend checking out Ainwood's cool program. To summarize: Before the move: 141 net gold per turn, 255 to corruption. After the move: 206 net gold per turn, 202 to corruption. Basically reduced corruption by 1/5th. I'd say that's pretty dramatic. It's hard to tell in game when you look at each city individually how much of an effect it had.

After looking at the save with CivAssist, I think we should move the palace back if we can.

Zipped autosaves, 1295AD and 1305AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanutzip.zip)
Ainwood's CivAssist (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2147355#post2147355)

Well, our trip to Orlando has been cancelled; I have no idea why. ;) So I have some time to play today or tomorrow. No one else has spoken up, but I also have no problem waiting another day or two. OTOH, we are a team, and only Pelgegasus and I have played recently. We're just about done, and will be done well in time for the next SG. So should I wait, should I go, or maybe do 5 turns and pass it to someone else?

There was some kind of security breach at LAX today and all flights have been cancelled. Only inbound air traffic allowed, without releasing passengers once landed.

Yeah, we saw that report; it created a short break from the wall to wall Hurricane Frances coverage. Actually, we were going to drive down to San Diego for a quick weekend trip, but that was cancelled; I was joking about the Orlando trip. Frances is going to mess up a ton (as in pretty much all) of Labor Day holidaying in Florida. :(

Well, there hasn't been any postings in 3 days from other potential players, so I will play around 5 turns, since I have a little time today.

Alright, I played 6 turns (just to be a bit different, and to finish some stuff off). Here's the turnlog:

Turn 0, 1305 AD
Cav does in Japanese Pike/Stlr
Accumulate 3 Cav to attack American Island (doing in 2 Barbs in process)
Set up a bunch of Settler builds
Move Caravel Stack that was fortified

(IBT, India kills 3 loose Cav; 1 Indian Cav retreats from RCA
2 Aztec Cav are repulsed near Malinalco)

Turn 1, 1310 AD
Jaipur razed, losing 1 Cav
Calcutta razed, losing 1 Cav
New Orleans razed, and an Amer LongB run over (oops, 2 more LongB approach)
Malinalco razed; Rome's Aztec Landing Zone founded
Tzintzuntzen razed, losing 1 Cav
Tlaxcala razed, losing 2 Cav
Project into India and Aztecs

(IBT, lose 4 Cav to Aztecs; 1 to India, 1 to Iroq Knights)
(mass Barb-uprising near our outposts! India and Japan are IA!)

Turn 2, 1315 AD
Calixtlahuaca razed (losing 3 Cav)
Regroup all units at RALZ
Elite Cav doing in Aztec Cav generates a GL; form Army at RALZ
Madras, newly founded and razed
Delhi razed (losing 1 Cav)
Lahore razed by two Armies
Reform, with Cav Armies and Cav stacked together
Pillage Saltpeter

(IBT, lose 1 Caravel to Indian Caravel;
Sink a Japanese Caravel that Attacked
Lose 1 Cav to Aztec Cav
Repulse a Aztec Cav at RALZ
Several Samurai approach RCA
A Couple Aztec Cav approach RALZ
Indians land WE and Settler in NW)

Turn 3, 1320 AD
Cav does in WE and STLR
Miami is hit by Hurricane Rome
Tokyo is razed by 3 Armies, who move on to Yokohama
Sink Japan Galley and Indian Caravel
Road completed near RCA, now connected to Road Network
Regroup wounded Units and Armies in RCA
Cav Stack (with Army) approaches Bombay
Clear 4 Cav around RALZ
Cav Army and 8 Cav advance to suburbs of Tenochtitlan

(IBT, 3 Japan Samurai hurl themselves at RCA, and fall
7 Aztec Cav avoid our Cav Army Stack, and Attack RALZ, 4 Cav lose, we lose 1 Musket and 2 Legions
Barbs swirl around, but lose wherever they attack)


Turn 4, 1325 AD
16 Horsemen built, by Shield or pop-rush
Tenochtitlan is assaulted; 8 Cav attack first
-- 1st 4 Cav damage 4 Musket defenders, 3 retreat and 1 is lost
-- Next Musket is 3/3, so commit our Elite Cav, who wins and generates Titus!!
-- Next 3 Cav destroy 3 Wounded Muskets
-- Army kills last Musket, and razes Tenochtitlan, only lost 1 Cav
5 Aztec Cav adj to RALZ are cannoned and destroyed (losing 1 Cav)
Bombay is razed (lose 1 Cav)
Yokohama is razed, no losses but some pretty wounded armies
Destroy 1 Indian Cav, 1 Japan LongB and 3 Japan Sam near RCA
Regroup for protection

(IBT, we lose 1 Cav to Indian Cav
1 Japan Caravel suicides on one of ours
Barbs randomly decide to terminate their sorry existance)


Turn 5, 1330 AD
Terminate 2 Japan Sam's near RCA
Knight Army (providing Settler Caravan protection) runs over Indian Musket/Stlr
Bengal is razed; Indians have no Saltpeter now
Run over Japan LongB as Cav and Army form near Japan border
Heal and reform

(IBT, Indian Cav have no one they wish to engage
Aztecs lose 1 Cav attacking RALZ
Barbs mill around)

Turn 6, 1335 AD
Fukishima (just formed) is destroyed
Japan Sam near RCA is done in
Two Aztec Cav are run over
Tepetlaoxtec (just formed) is destroyed, losing 1 Cav
Rome's Indian Outpost is formed (taking Horses from India)
Karachi is razed by 3 Armies and 2 Cav
Saltpeter and Iron are reconnected; Upgrade Horses/Spears/Warriors

End of Turnlog

Status: The AI has reached the Industrial Age (so parts of the map are crawling with barbs!! So far they haven't made a serious dent in our defenses, so I'm leaving whatever perimeter Cav/Legions we have fortified in Mountains spaces, or in outpost cities.) There are no scientific civs left, so there are no Riflemen yet; it will be a lot easier finishing this game if we do it before Riflemen are being generated, so let's keep the pressure on. I think it's India/Japan/Aztecs, but one of them may not be there; Iroqouis and America still lag.

India has taken a major hit in the last few turns. They are down to 4 cities, and really only one productive one. And they have been deprived of Saltpeter and Horses. I believe I've seen 2 Indian Cav moving about between our Indian outpost city and Rome Conquer's All, so be on the lookout for those units.

Japan has lost a few cities, and lots of Samurai (they don't have Cav). A stack with a Cav army and about 10 Cav are moving towards Kyoto, but they are two turns away.

Iroqouis have been mostly unmolested so far, but they post the least threat, also.

Aztecs have lost several Eastern cities, and their Capital. They have thrown lots of Cav at us, so I believe they are nearly depleted of these units. 2 GL's have been generated here, so we now have 2 Armies to lead our units, and one Army with a stack of Cav is forward positioned (after razing a city Monte had just formed), and ready to advance.

Abe is down to 2 cities; a Caravel with 3 Cav are ready to land next to either one, and some other units are advancing from the South.

I've been positioning units along the Thin continent to be sure no one lands a Settler along there without having to meet Roman steel (or gunpowder). I don't have every spot covered, but there are a lot of barbs there to impede anyone who lands as well.

A Japanese Galley is advancing up our Eastern Coast; I have a leading Caravel in front of it, waiting for a Trailing Caravel to catch up so we'll have 2 for 1 on it. I've been moving units on our Eastern coast (2 Legions and a Cav) to match it. Another Japanese Caravel is moving down our Western Coast; might need to move units to match it as well.

Lots of Cav just upgraded in Cumae to transport to our Aztec Theater. Several Settlers are on automatic move to reach our load up spot to go to the Capital (so don't be too surprised when lots of Settlers start jumping around.)

In general, I've been stacking Cav with Armies; the AI usually doesn't attack an army in the field, and this way I lose fewer Cav. We are healing units in our Indian outpost city, and in RCA. We have an attack Cav stack in the South, and in the North, and a 3rd Army with Settlers moving out from RALZ to form a forward outpost in the center of Aztecia. I'd keep healing the Armies in RCA; then move about half up to clean up the Japanese quadrant, and the other Half South to finish off the Iroquois and Aztecs. Our RALZ is about to get a lot of reinforcements to push out. And I'd use the units healing in the Indian Outpost to finish off the Indians and those two Japanese cities to the West.

Keith is back up; but I'd say if Keith, bigchief or Peanut can take it, one of those three should be next.

1335 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1335_01.SAV)

I have a meeting tonight and a funeral to go to tommorrow evening and another meeting Thursday night. In other words, I have no free time until Friday. I am sorry about this team. If the game is still going I would like to play Friday or Saturday.

Keith, it looks like RL is keeping you on the sidelines. I think we may be able to stretch this to the weekend.

Peanut or bigchief? Are either of you available? If not, I'd suggest that Peglegasus play 5 turns or so, if he is available.

While we're waiting for the next set of turns (Keith this weekend if no one else steps up), I made a few screenshots to show our current status.

Here's our 1335 AD F3 screenshot, showing the minimap and our most significant military units. The Aztecs captured workers shows that they've had conflict with the Iroquois and Japanese.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1335F3.JPG

Here's what's left of the Americans. We have 2 Cav on the ground and 3 in the Northern Caravel, so I think Abe's time is coming to an end soon.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1335Abe.JPG

This is our Northern Landing spot, in formerly Indian territory right on the border with Japan (but it's our territory now!!) A stack of 10 Cav with a Cav Army are advancing towards Kyoto (2 turns out), and there are several Cav Armies healing in Rome Conquers All. After finishing it's Walls, they should build Barracks next (faster healing for Armies), pop-rushing at the earliest opportunity (we've never left Despotism).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1335Japan.JPG

Recently we have focused on India; they are down to 4 cities. This outpost city formed at the Border between India and Iroquois territory will provide a place to heal in security, and keep the forces near the front. We can also intercept any units heading North. The Stack of Armies will be ready to rest after razing several Indian cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1335India.JPG

This is our 2nd landing zone, at the edge of Aztec territory. We've penetrated through to the former Aztec Capital and generated 2 GL's which formed Cav Armies. One Army is protecting a stack of Cav, and the stack is ready to take the current Aztec Capital (two turns); the 2nd Army is protecting a Settler/Musket/Cannon stack as it moves forward to form a forward outpost. There are two exposed Cav from razing a newly formed town; we might lose them but then again the Aztec have committed and lost many cavalry in attacking our troops; they might not have much more to send. We have about 16 more Cav to send over from the mainland to this spot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Peanut_sg3_ad1335Aztecs.JPG

Using the Cav Armies in the open to protect stacks of Cavalry has worked pretty well; the AI will send their Cav to attack our Landing Zone cities, which are well protected with Muskets, Legions and Cannons (and Cav armies, too), leaving our stacks alone to be offensive. Wounded Cav have enough movements to return to the Landing Zone city for healing; forward placed cities make this easier to do as the front moves forward.

There's been no change in game status for over 4 days. Keith, if you can play, please post a 'got-it'. (Or, anyone else? I'm finishing up GOTM34; if no one responds, I can take it later on this weekend, I think.)

I know I'm not part of the team, but this team is actually doing pretty good for the variant. I would like to see you all finish. Just rooting you guys on :hammer:

Thanks, Mauer! I'm certain we WILL finish, and possibly this weekend (which would give our team some time to review all the threads prior to the SGOTM4 release.) I've been more involved in the play recently than most of the team, so at this time I'm leaving the door open to the others to help finish this off. I know that one member has a serious personal family issue he is involved with, and that several others have had lots of RL tasks fall upon them; SGOTM is a fun pastime, but other responsibilities come first in priority. (Something about bills to pay, etc.)

I think if we really put the hammer down :hammer: , we have a good shot at finishing ahead of Xteam's final date. If so, only the Staff team might beat us out for dibs on first runner-up. Our scoring curve is unique on the Chart so I'd like to understand what sort of decisions we've made have caused that, in regard to the other teams.

The Gold Laurel will be awarded to the team that win by the victory condition of their choice in the fewest turns relative to the Jason best date for that condition.

civ_steve are you aware of this rule.
hint: the Jason calculator for GOTM 16 is available.

Yeah, thanks Mauer! I've been hanging out hoping to give some other teammates a chance to play, as it's been civ_steve and I the last few turnsets. It's been a fun game.

I think we might be able to just beat Xteam's date, but yes the staff team looks to be doing really well.

Hope all is well with everyone.

I am sorry no one else took my place the last four days. Given a four day period I probably could have gotten off my ten turns. I was just trying to keep things moving on, but it now looks like I slowed the team down. For this I am true sorry. The busyness of this past week has creep into this weekend for me as well and I am having to work today. I probably can get a few turns off this evening, but am OK with anyone else taking as many as they would like this day. I am just trying to be honest and upfront with everyone. As much as I hate letting you guys down, the reality is that I would let a whole lot more people down if I spend time playing a game right now. I hate making choices like this, but sometimes life is like that.

Keith: we understand; RL is just like that! :) If we were at a critical juncture or there were any key decisions to be made, we would have played through. Instead, we are at the end game; this game is over except for determining the final date. Please play tonight, as many turns as you feel you are able; if we hear from Peanut or bigchief they can play after; and if we don't then I'd suggest Peglegasus to go next. Good Luck!!

klarius: you make an intriguing point. Our victory condition (Conquest) has been determined for some time, and that wont change; there is quite a difference in best date for Conquest vs Domination, so depending on the victories obtained by the other successful Variant teams, we may have a shot at the Laurel. (We wont KNOW that until after we finish, which is an interesting element of the hidden thread aspect of SGOTM.) In the back of my mind I've assumed everyone was going for Conquest - What else would a good Xenophobe do? :D

In the back of my mind I've assumed everyone was going for Conquest - What else would a good Xenophobe do?What else indeed, but it's a rash assmption :D
[HINT]: If you use the Jason score calculator and plug in the Firaxis score posted for each team you can find out which victory condition matches their posted Jason score. That tells you how they won.

Have the game save and will play a few turns tonight. I am a bit brain dead right now, but the diversion will be good for me. Thanks everyone for the understanding.

Pre-turn: 1335 AD
No changes.

IBT:
Lots of Barb activity.

Turn 1: 1340 AD
Move to attack Houston next turn.
Move to attack Aztec capital next turn.
Found Little Round Top on Aztec hills next to grapes. This location will give us a healing point for most of the Aztec region.
Advance towards Kyoto.

IBT:
Indian Outpost took a beating but held on. Lose one Musket and one Legion.

Turn 2: 1345 AD
Kill lots of wounded units around Indian Outpost.
Barely take Kyoto at the loss of three Cav.
Lose a Legion attack American Settler/Spearman. Finish them off with Cav.
Take Houston a put everyone to the sword. Move on to last American city. Next turn should be it for them.
Take out Aztec capital at the loss of 4 Cav.
I mistakenly moved Legion Army away from Rome Conquers All thinking there was a settler in the group. A new settler landed this turn and the Army will have to move back one tile next turn to cover it.
I am uploading and calling it a night. Next up!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1345_01.SAV

Keith, you are by no means letting us down. We understand completely. Gotta do what you gotta do. Civ_steve and I kinda feel bad hoggin the game I think! Anyway, I can probably play some tomorrow night. Well actually I guess that would be tonight... lost track of time here at the station. Sunday night is what I mean!

What else indeed, but it's a rash assmption :D
[HINT]: If you use the Jason score calculator and plug in the Firaxis score posted for each team you can find out which victory condition matches their posted Jason score. That tells you how they won.
That sounds too technical for me! :) OK, I guess we're not playing for first runner-up after all.

Whoever plays next, please post a got-it. I'm assuming Peglegasus will play a few turns unless bigchief or Peanut chimes up. There are some Cav in the Caravels off RCA that can be activated and moved into RCA; might as well do it. I'd also suggest that the Cav stack near Kyoto's remnants be moved 1 space West, so that while they heal they are one turn away from that next Japanese city. And keep an eye on that Japanese Galley off our Eastern coast; we don't want Japan landing some units in our backside! I was moving the Caravels to catch up with them, but they've fallen further behind; there's only the one caravel adjacent to the Galley now.

(Edit - whoever plays next, we have to stay aggressive, especially with regards to penetrating to the far corners, the NW part of Japan, and that SW tundra area on the other side of the Aztecs. These areas are hardest to get to, so we have to keep an army with Cavs moving forward towards these corners; the remaining cities can be picked up by new units moved over, or by Cav moved back to our outpost cities to heal, after they've healed. Clearing out those corners will be a major element of how long before we finish our game. We still need to heal wounded Cavs, but consider adding Healed cavs to these penetrating units to keep them moving forward if our unit count drops low in these stacks.)

Comrades :

Regrettably I have been incommunicado for the past few days and sadly I cannot see that I can play for the next week. I am counting on you all to slaughter mercilessly, and quickly. The whole world must be pure Roman before we can rest on our laurels (whether they be gold, silver, bronze or lead).

I will check in and drop the occasional comment when I can. It will probably all be over before I am free again. Good luck and may our swords never rust !

Posting a "got it"! Don't know if I'll play 5 or 10 turns, but I'll play something!


And sgotm4... 5cc? never ever tried 5cc before! interesting.

One thing you can be sure of - the turns will go much faster!

I'd like to see this game finished soon. If either Keith, bigchief or Peanut believe they can play after Peglegasus, please put a post saying so in the thread. Otherwise, I'll assume I have it and play after Peglegasus.

Peglegasus: keep the pressure on and push forward. The AI is mostly depleted of offensive forces; an army stacked with Cavalry units will protect the Cav, leaving the AI with not much to attack. Units with 3 or more Hitpoints against them should be moved back to an outpost city for healing; 2 or less might be healed in place, if there's a safe place to regroup. If you penetrate in towards a city the prior turn and can attack the next turn with no more than 1 movement beforehand, your surviving Cav will have extra movement at the end of the turn to regroup (so it's good to do this). And it was my plan to block off the passages going around our continent so no more AI naval units could penetrate to our backside; don't forget about that Japanese Galley that's off the former Greek coast.

almost finished with my turns. 22 cities razed so far, so the map has changed quite a bit. armies are in need of healing so things slowing down a little. reinforcements are on the way over. india has riflemen now but the only cities they have left are quite small. japan is nearly gone. the aztecs are the big dog now.

Well, I did the best I could. Unfortunately we aren't going to beat out Xteam's date of 1410AD. The Aztecs and the Iroquois each have 7 cities left, India and Japan have 6 each. I was really aggressive on multiple fronts and most cities fell pretty easily. The Aztecs are the tough ones. You can pretty much count on at least 2 muskets in each one and sometimes longbows and cavalry as well. The Japanese were much easier. Generally had a samurai and a pike or two each. But now they have gotten saltpeter from somewhere. I haven't seen any muskets from them yet but they now have cavalry running around. The Iroquois have been sending a few knights and mounted warriors up to our outposts but not much else from them.

We have about 2 dozen fresh cavalry on their way over to the southern landing zone, a few up north waiting to catch the ferry, and more scattered around en route to the coast to hop aboard caravels.

I have some screens I'll post in a bit

1395AD save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1395_01.SAV)

1345AD to 1395AD turn log

Turn 0: Move cavalry out of caravels and into RCA. Move forward units on Japan front west to heal, as suggested. Pop rush 3 horses. Move some caravels around.

IBT: Japanese galley sinks caravel by New Rome. The barbs are freakin out! 6 samurai approach Indian Outpost. I get out my Photek cd to listen to the remix of "seven samurai". Aztec cavalry approaches Little Round Top.

Turn 1:1350AD: 2 cav armies take down 2 muskets and raze Xochicalco. 13 fresh cavalry move to within striking range of Teayo and Tlacopan. Send 8 cav units south to work on the tundra towns. Buffalo is razed and America is gone from the game. Take out 2 samurai at Indian Outpost. Lose 3 caravels trying to sink a Japanese caravel. Bother.Upgrade a few units.

IBT: Lose 1 musket and 2 cav in counterattacks.

Turn 2: 1355AD: 5 cavalry raze Tlacopan with one loss. Teayo razed with no losses. Nagoya razed by 2 armies and one elite cav. Condestageion (sp?) razed by 2 cav. A few more upgrades.

IBT: Lose 1 cav 2 aztecs

Turn 3: Kagoshima razed by 3 cav armies. Atzapotzalco razed. Miskey an army and waste an attack on a longbow. Bangalore razed.

IBT: Lose 2 cavalry to Japanese cavalry!? Who gave them saltpeter?! Had a little stack healing in a spot I though was safe, but no... Lose 1 unit to India and one to Iroquois.

Turn 4: 1365AD: Edo razed by 3 cav armies.

IBT: Lose 1 cav to India.

Turn 5: 1370AD: New Hispalis founded. Sink Japanese galley on east coast. Osaka razed by 2 elite cavalry. Lose 3 cavalry attacking Kolhapur. Several other cavs retreat and we are unable to take it. This is India's last big city.

IBT: Lose 1 cavalry to japanese cavalry, one to India. Legion slain by barbs.

Turn 6: 1375AD: Total Carnage! Tula razed. Satsuma razed, losing 2 cavalry. Kolhapur razed by knight army. Tlalmanalco and Tlatlelolco razed with one loss each. Ganogeh razed. Pillage saltpeter to build more horses... iron is hooked up somewhere. Rush 4 horses.

IBT: Japan is mustering an impressive number of units for a civ that is in its death throes. Lose 3 cavalry to japanes cav. I really hadn't expected much offense from them! 2 attacking japanese longbows are killed. Lose 1 cav to Aztecs. Musket kills one attacking Aztec cav. Lose 1 legion to Aztecs.

Turn 7: 1380AD: India has riflemen now. Bugger. We raze Hyderabad... 1 rifle and 1 musket defending. Izumo razed as well as Cempoala. Huexotla razed but at the loss of 4 cavalry. I'm amazed that the super musket defender didn't get a leader. Pop rush about 14 horses. Found a couple new towns.

IBT: Iroquois knight kills 1 cav.

Turn 8: 1385AD: Nara razed. Couple more towns founded. Pop rush 7 horses and 2 cav.

Turn 9: 1390AD: Matsuyama razed. Another new town founded. Moving 2 armies to the south to join up with more cav units... the armies decide to take a shot at Centralia as they pass through Iroquois lands. Super musketman fights first army down to 2 hits! bah. 2nd army takes out 2nd musket much more easily. Pike left defending.

IBT: Japanese cavalry attack redlined army and destroy it. Iroquois longbow kills elite cavalry.

Turn 10: 1395AD: Raze calcutta. Found some new towns. sink Indian caravel

Map at 1345AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/peanutmmp1.JPG

Map at 1395AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/peanutmmp2.JPG

Alrighty; a lot of AI stomping going on!. I was hoping you'd have done them all in :) , but I guess that wasn't to be. I'll assume I'm next, and load up the save file tonight. Probably play tomorrow, so last chance if anyone else wants it.

Alrighty; a lot of AI stomping going on!. I was hoping you'd have done them all in :)

Yes, I was hoping that too. I don't see how it could be done. At some point if I have some more time I want to replay those turns doing it a little differently and see what I can come up with. Anyway here are some screens.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/pnutdownsth.JPG

There are some units WAY down south that you probably wouldn't notice otherwise... they should be healed up on the next turn and ready for some destruction.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/pnutiroq.jpg

There are two armies here that I brought down from the north to team up with the cavalry just south of here. I took a shot at Centralia with them but should have been more patient and gotten them all together. The other cav by the armies here I should have brought one tile east to have striking range on centralia next turn but screwed it up.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/pnutjapan.jpg

Armies working on japan.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/pnutpeninsula.jpg

These guys are working their way onto the little peninsula here and smashing things up as they go. They may need to hold off and wait for reinforcements and some healing though.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/pnuttrouble.jpg

This is a trouble spot. These guys just came out of nowhere. I liked Japan better before they had cavalry.


So as I said before there are a bunch more cavalry headed over, and there are lots of settlers around too. So many settlers in fact that I didn't quite know what to do with them all! I settled some towns around the new capital to make a new "core", though it won't ever produce much as the game is almost over. I really thought those new towns would be relatively safe with Japan all but crushed, but Japan is still able to launch reasonable counterattacks. Unfortunately after I moved some of the northern forces to the south where they were needed more, Japan got cavalry.

Anyway, I'm glad the game is almost over. Sorry I couldn't finish them all off!

I'm a few turns into it, just getting the next wave of Cavalry to the front line. I found most of the units you've mentioned, and have even held onto New Gonzonium! (I thought I could move a Legion from RCA over to it, but it had moved this turn and could only move one space! For some reason it became a Cav Magnet, and actually killed 1 Cav before going down to a 2nd, and this relieved the pressure on New Gonzo!) I should be able to conclude during this set of turns, and if I'm close and haven't done it after 10, I'll finish off (if there are no objections.)

My original plan for your set of turns, Peglegasus, was to send the primary forces (maybe 2/3's of our available, fairly healthy units) towards the far corners of Japan and the Aztecs, to clear out the farthest cities first, leaving the nearer cities to healed units, returning armies and reinforcements. I thought that would clear out the continent fastest. I think you started that way, but eventually cleared out the nearer cities first, which delays the time when the reinforcements can be effective. I also feel that our forward outpost cities are not forward enough; there's too much distance to cover for our frontline wounded Cav to return to a base for healing. Ideally they should be spaced at intervals of 9 movement spaces from the landing spot; that way new reinforcements can move quickly to the front and have a safe base to stage out from. When we're done, I may revisit this to see if these changes in tactics make much of a difference.

I've been replaying the turns I did, trying to learn from them. I'm focusing much more on well placed forward outposts and being much more careful with wounded units (a little late, I know). I have to say that it certainly is working well in the sense that I'm keeping a lot more cavalry afield and protected, but I can't match the speed of my first try. I've probably only taken down half the number of cities this go around. Maybe this time I'm being too cautious, where before it was all about aggression.

I'd really like to see how one of you pros goes about a quick conquest like this because it's way out of my game experience.

I think that's good practice. This is an extreme game with lots of units available at the end which may not normally be the case.

I believe we have 11 Cavalry Armies and roughly 40-50 loose Cavalry on the 2nd continent, with more coming. Ideally I'd think about 5 stacks with 2 Armies and 8-10 Cavalry each could be formed, and start munching through the AI. Assuming you lost 1 Cavalry per attack, and 2 Cavalry were wounded to require healing, these stacks would start to get a little thin after 3-4 cities, but still that's 15-20 cities gone in that time. At that time you could pause to allow some wounded Cavalry to heal and rejoin the stacks, or you could expect some reinforcements to start to filter over. Optimally you can keep going and each stack would take out about 10 cities; at the low end you might take out 3, than wait 2-3 turns for healing, take out another 2-3, wait, etc. So a range of cities taken out, under ideal circumstances, would be about 25-50 during 10 turns.

Our circumstances aren't ideal: we have only 2 Armies in the South, but most of the loose Cavalry are down there. Wounded Cavalry heal faster than severley wounded Armies, so I'd be hesitant to commit the Southern Armies to many attacks, and use almost all Cav there. In the North, I'd have to use a lot of Armies, unless I want to try and hook up the two forces for redistribution, which would use a lot of turns.

I think its also important to maintain a tempo, and your momentum. Unless you're taking the last city in an area, it's better (IMO) not to completely exhaust your attacking units. If I'm down to 3-4 useable Cav, with various wounded Cav healing, if I use these last 3-4 Cav on an attack, I'll likely be left with nobody available the following turn and have to wait 2-3 turns to have a force again. If I pause a turn, I allow other Cav that are nearly healed to finish healing and join me, allowing me to continue the rampage the following turn. This type of timing varies depending on circumstances, so its best not to have hard and fast rules, but to try to get a sense of what you should do through experimentation.

In our circumstance I think it's best to drive to the corners first; these cities are hard to get to and will require a lot of moves and attacks to clear out. The closer AI cities are still vulnerable to our reinforcements, which need fewer moves to get to these nearer cities. I'll try to test this out after I finish this set of turns (just finished 1415, and I think another 4-6 turns will be needed; the Indian/Japanese peninsula to the West in the middle will be tough to clear.)

I would have liked to have beat Xteam's date, but not having done so does not diminish this team's effort. This was a difficult variant, and our team has done very well, especially considering that none of us (I think) is a real warmonger (well, most of the time.) If there is something to be learned about tackling these types of situations in the game, I'd like to learn it to help my future games finish a little faster. The real competition is not against the computer, but against the performance of the other competitors, and I'd like to see how I can shave a few turns off in the end game.

civ_steve, I don't think you could do much better in the very end.
This other continent is just awful :cry: . I also greatly underestimated it, but believe me it was even worse in Xteams game.
It was just too late when you arrived there in force.

Yup, the timing of events is tricky with this variant and this game. For a long time you exist in react mode, trying to keep the ocean of AI forces from overwhelming your defenses. At points you push out and establish new boundaries. Even later you turn to being more offensive, starting to hit the AI at their core. And later on you have to decide when you'll start planning your invasion of the next continent; for quickest effect this is done as the 1st continent is being done in; you waste a lot of time if you wait until you've fully secured the 1st continent before planning to take the 2nd. We contacted the 2nd continent very late; for the longest time we had no navy at all! All these choices impact the final ending.

I'll finally get some time to finish the game tonight; I promise! :) It's 1425, the Aztecs are gone, the Iroquois down to 1 tundra city, and forces are closing in on all fronts.

All done, just as promised.

Turn 0, 1395 AD
Not much, lose 2 Cav and 1 Legion to attacks; 1 Japan Cav died in attacks

Turn 1, 1400 AD
Kill Aztec LongB that killed our Cav
Cannon, than kill 1 Japan Cav, 3 Japan LongB adj to New Gonzo
Suo razed by Army
Centralia razed by Army (defended by 2 LongB's)
Assault on Tyandaega comes up short, retreat to Woods, covered by Cav Army
Far Southern nameless Aztec town destroyed (Spears defending); move remaining units towards Tamuin
Lots of Cav transported over

(IBT Japan loses 1 Cav, retreats 1 Cav, loses a LongB, and kills a Legion
India loses a Cav)

Turn 2, 1405 AD
From forward outpost in Aztecs lands
Tamuin razed; Army is joined by healed Cav to threaten Texcoco
Tyandega survives a 2nd round (1 Cav); a wounded Knight is its defender
Move big stack of Cav forward, near Texcoco
Regroup otherwise - Japanese NW armies recalled to heal; Indian Armies as well
Kill a couple loose enemy units
Load up Cav to NW and start moving across
Move Legion Army with Settler North to Japanese zone

(IBT, Cav defeats Samurai attack
some Aztec LongB's move around)

Turn 3, 1410 AD
6 Cav land at RCA
Do in some loose LongB's
Army near Indian remnant does in Rifle/Stlr stack
Texcoco is razed by 5 Cav losing 1, 3 from Reinf/2 from Tamuin Vets
Tepexpan is razed by 4 Cav losing 2, 2 from Reinf/2 from Tamuin Vets
Iroq Spearman guarding Isthmus to Tundra is overrun by Tamuin Cav Army
We are in the SW Tundra
Grand River (Aztecs) is razed by 4 Reinf Cav, losing 1
Tyandega is razed by Knight Army (only a Spear defending)
Do in an Iroq Knight and Aztec Cav

(IBT Indian Cav loses)

Turn 4, 1415 AD
Japan super Sam kills 2 Cav before succumbing
Chondote razed
Pressure on Salamanca (Aztec)
Dacca is razed
Tonawanda (Aztec) is razed
Pressure on St Regis and Allegheny

(IBT an Indian Horse, followed by WarElephant does in one of our Cav in the Tundra)


Turn 5, 1420 AD
St Regis Razed, adv on Indus
Salamanca is razed; the Aztecs are 7th to Go!
Mauch Chunk hangs on, barely
Allegheny is razed
Stacks form and head to Japan and India

(IBT 2 Japan Cav go around our Army stacks)

Turn 6, 1425 AD
Bizen in the North is destroyed
1 Army and 6 Cav moving forward against Japan in the North
1 Army and 5 Cav towards Nagasaki
Mauch Chunk is razed; Central Continent is cleared
Indus is razed in SW Tundra
2 Japan Cav and 1 Iroq Knight done in
Only Ganges and Unknown Iroquis city in SW Tundra
2 Cav Armies and 4 Cav threaten Hakodate in West Central Peninsula
Front Cav threaten Ganges and Unknown Iroq city in SW, with lots of reinforcements coming
Status: Japan 3 cities in NW, 2 in West Penin; India 2 in West Penin, 1 in SW Tundra; Iroq 1 in SW Tundra

(IBT Lose 1 Cav, 1 to loose Japan Cav, 1 to Indian LongB at Ganges)

Turn 7, 1430 AD
Hakodate is razed
Ganges survives, but 13 Cav are within Striking range
All 3 Northern Jap cities are threatened
Closing in on Indian Cap, Chittagong

(IBT, Japan Cav loses attacking Cav investing Nagasaki)

Turn 8, 1435 AD
Cav Army with 3 attacks razes Shimonoseki
2 Cav raze Sapporo
Nagasaki survives (1 hp Samurai; Japan Cav saved them)
1 Army and 1 Cav move adj to Nagasaki
4 Cav raze Ganges
6 Cav raze Oka; the Iroq are 9th To Go!
and the SW Tundra is clear!
1 Army and 1 Cav adj to Chittagong, 3 Armies move within Striking Range

(IBT and Indian Rifle/Stlr try to escape)

Turn 9, 1440 AD
Nagasaki is razed
Chittagong is razed
Ise is razed; Japan is 10th To Go!
Indian Rifle/Stlr is run over
Down to just Punjab, but TWO mountains to move through
3 Armies and 4 Cav are on their way

Turn 10, 1445 AD
Stack is now adjacent to Punjab

Turn 11, 1450 AD
No more Punjab, no more Indians, no more Game!
Our world is now pure (except for all those lowly barbarians)

Conquest Victory noted in 1455.

End of Turnlog

Good job fellow Peanuts! I know we were just keeping our shells on for quite a while there, but once we broke out there was no stopping us! And a great performance for a bunch of Romans that never changed out of Despotism! I think there are certain pluses and minuses to doing that, and overall we did a very good job of it.

Save at Conquest Victory, 1455 AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Peanut_SG003_AD1455_01.SAV)

Well done Peanuts :goodjob:

Yes very well done indeed! Your finish was very fast compared with ours.

I wonder where we went wrong? :hmm:

Nice work Steve! Well done, everyone! Long live Planet Rome!

Will done team! Sorry I kind of dropped out at the end. This game was lots of fun and I learned a lot. I note that the next is a 5 city challenge. Never did that. Sounds fun. Is Peanut still a team?

Team I would like to use the back end of this tread for a pregame discussion for the next game. We have three more days until the save is posted and because we can pick the level we play at I think it would be helpful if we have some discussion on what type of victory we want to go for. If we play at a low level it should not be too hard to go for a 20K victory. Conquest is seems doable at any level. Domination and cultural are both impossiblities. Diplomatic is also doable at any level. Space race would be very hard at deity but doable at all others.

[/lurk]
Ummm! I don't want to spoil your fun, but I think MB is asking people to state what level they play at in order to assess relative strengths for building evenly matched teams. I don't believe this is an invitation to play the game at a different level from the one he has set.
[lurk]

Your right Alan. I don't know what I was thinking. Team Peanut still needs to decide what Victory Condition they are aiming for. Conquest will give us the earliest finish at Monarch level. But I am personally leaning for another Victory Condition. If we go for a 20K lot depends on how many bonus grass tiles are around the first or the second city.

I don't think any of us have done a 5cc before, so I'm thinking that a 5cc conquest would be really tough. On the other hand we know that we are good at diplo victory. Sure helps to be a scientific civ though, but of course not necessary. 20k would probably be good too for India being a religious civ.
My thought is if we do variant we go diplo or 20k, and if we don't go variant we go for conquest, as we have a lot of recent practice with it ;)

The recent India GOTM was notable for a lack of early resources close by - no horses on starting landmass, and the only initial iron source being very close to an adversary. (I say only initial, because in my game I got TWO sources close to my territory from other civs depleting their source, including my adversary! Extremely flukey!!) And we only had the one other civ on our starting landmass,and they know what to do with Iron!!

I think Conquest is out if the position repeats itself. I did well by setting up a massive Archer rush (lots of poprushing) to overrun the other civ and I benefitted from them losing Iron quickly. A 5CC would allow little if any pop-rushing, and I wouldn't bet that the nearby Iron would deplete so early again. Also, lack of Horses means no cheap WEs/Knights from upgrades unless you find a foreign source. Quite frankly, I've had enough of :hammer: for a while anyway. Domination is obviously out. I'd discard Histographic and 100K. So we're down to Space, 20K and Diplo.

Diplo should be relatively easy, and we've done that one well already. A good 20K would need some leader farming. Space would be somewhat difficult. I'd vote for Space, with an (usually available) option to go out with Diplo. Of course if we 'happened' to get a few leaders ... ;)

civ_steve,

I agree that diplomatic or space is the way to go. I vote for space, with diplomatic as a backup.

As for city placement we might as well go for OCP, but we must have at least one city on the coast. We will need at least one port for trade.

One nice thing about a 5CC game is the turn sets will be pretty short!! It was taking me at least 2-3 Hours per turn set at the end of SGOTM3, with trying to be careful and keep good notes!

Going for Space, we will need plenty of good research and good production. 3 cities with good production is enough to dominate building SS parts. Coast spaces generate additional commerce, so I wouldn't be adverse to having 2 cities having a lot of Coast (and some Sea) within their radius. We might want the option to have our 5 city overseas near luxuries or a critical resource.

I haven't heard from bigchief or Peanut in a while. Will either of you be able to participate in the next SGOTM? Turns will go fast with a 5CC.

On another point, I will probably have to travel on the 21-23rd this month, AND I have vacation from the 30th thru Oct 7th, so my participation may be a bit light at the beginning. Just giving some advance notice.

... Peanut surfaces from his sea of books and papers for a moment ...

My fellow Generals :

What an awesome display of bloodthirsty AI-crushing ! I think we did extremely well to finish that fast.

I am keen to play again if possible, if you will still have a rather erratic team member that is. This workload of mine should ease in a few days and I should be back to being my old eccentric self.

Any variation is good and one that does not need a lot of unit-shuffling (like a 5CC) would be suitable. That forces us to focus more on strategy & AI manipulation tactics, coupled with needing a healthy dose of luck and a few good breaks. Lots of fun !

Ah well, back into the academic sea again ...

Looks like we are all on board except for Bigchief. I would vote that we play as a four person team for now and allow him time to take care of his pressing obligations. Hopefully he can join us mid-game or in the next game. If we don't hear from him by next time we can add a new player. What do the rest of you think?

BTW I have a well deserved day off tomorrow so I could get us started Monday morning AM and the next person could play tommorrow night after work. Of course for Peanut that would be Tuesday morning. I think?

Looks like we are all on board except for Bigchief. I would vote that we play as a four person team for now and allow him time to take care of his pressing obligations. Hopefully he can join us mid-game or in the next game. If we don't hear from him by next time we can add a new player. What do the rest of you think?

That sounds fine to me, but I suppose it's ultimately up to madbax. He might need a spot to place someone. I think it might be nice to have a new person join us, and keep Bigchief on the roster of course.

So... any thoughts on opening moves? Looks like we have a BG directly south and another directly east. I think Civ_Steve is spoilered on this one, though it is possible the map has been altered to account for those players who have played it.

I'm thinking about moving the worker either to the mountain to have a look around, or moving the worker east. If I were to settle a spot quickly just given the starting picture I would probably go for the grassland one tile NE. I've never done a 5CC challenge before but it would seem to me that taking a little extra time to place the first city is probably a good thing.

I think we can count of the map being altered, so it would be dangerous to base our opening move on the old map. Because the river terminates at the mountain I don’t think a worker move up that mountain is not a good idea. The only tile we would want to move to in that direction is the one directly north. My gut feeling is much better possibilities lay to the east along the river. Settling one tile to the east looks like it would be a good possibility. We would only temporarily lose the shield of BG and long term we will gain bonus gold from having more tile next to a river. With only five cities we will be at size 7 very quickly.

I am assuming that a granary will be little use to us, but an ultra early temple is very tempting. Any thought on this from the rest of you?

Your right Peg, it might be fun to add another player to Team Peanut. Do you think anyone is NUTS enough for this?