Yes, no point making mistakes at this juncture. We just need to get some momentum in play here. And a 2nd MGL could strike at any time. FWIW in that event I'd build a second legion army with that.

Preturn
Contact Monty and inform him that we are now at war
move a r.legion out of veii towards pisae to help with the english forces there (legion will be replaced by veii build next turn)
bombard and archer n of pisae for 1hp
notice that we have an aztec city to our se

IBT
Bismark wants to speak with us, I ignore him
lots of english horses move to tile n of pisae

260AD (1)
Rome legion->legion
Veii legion->legion
Neapolis legion->legion
Ravenna legion->legion
v.legion vs r.archer2/3 @ ravenna, promotes 4/5
e.legion vs r.spear1/3 @ rome, on hill, loses :-(
r.legion vs r.sword1/3 on hill, promotes 4/4
(still thinking on what to do about uber spear @ rome, don't want to use the army as I want him on the front)
move legion out of Ant. to mt ne. (potential booby trap for ai's partially injured swords next turn)
army kills the spear1/3 flawless
pike on the way to Byzantium spots Jag warrior se-se-e of lugdunum
v.legion vs r.sword2/3 @ veii, wins 1/4
unsure what to do about english troops at pisae, no decent odds for attacking them, I think we'll hold ok so I leave them

IBT
English horse kills our v.legion in pisae, other than that they lose a couple of archers, their other horses all retreat and our v.pikeman promotes 3/5
jag warrior moves to tundra forrest s of byzantium
aztec galley heading se past hispalis (crossed from somewhere w of hisp.)
french swords on mt west of ant ignore legion and retreat (oh well, they're not as stupid as I thought :-)

270AD (2)
rome legion->legion
cumae legion->legion
lugdunum cat->cat
v.legion vs r.sword1/3 on hill @ Neap, wins 4/4
legion on mt returns to ant

IBT
jag attacks byzan and loses
germans are building Sistine Chapel

280AD (3)
rome legion->legion
Antium pike->legion
pompeii pike->legion
pisae legion->cat
r.legion vs r.archer2/3 n of pisae, loses
v.legion vs r.archer2/3, wins 4/4

IBT
r.horse vs v.legion n of neapolis on game, v.legion wins flawless (i was bringing him back to neap, moved adjacent to horse hoping to provoke him but didn't really expect abe to be so silly)
2 english r.horses move back to seige pisae
4 russian r.swords appear in mt's ne-ish of Antium

290AD (4)
rome legion->legion
veii legion->legion
neapolis legion->legion
ravenna legion->legion
2 v.legions retreat both r.horses @ pisae
2 v.legions from veii finish them off and promote
send v pike out of pisae to cover injured legion

IBT
lots of french and russian swords move in to seige Ant (9 total)
3 greek archers heading for byzan
our golden age ends
bab galley off coast of lugdunum

300AD (5)
ok, our military is crippling our economy, sci0%, lux0%, engineering 30t, -6gpt, 256g
I'm gonna get us some settlers and rebuild pepermint town as a priority, then move on the french
cumae legion->cat
switch veii from legion to settler
switch neap from legion to cat
bombard swords at Antium 1 success, 5 fail :-(
e.legion vs r.spear1/3 @ veii, wins 5/5
v.legion vs r.spear1/3 @ rome, wins 4/4
(this ibt could get bloody around ant)

IBT
abe requests and audience, i ignore
russia lose 2 swords attacking ant

310AD (6)
rome legion->legion
lugdunum cat->cat
v.legion vs r.sword @ ant, on hill, promotes 4/5
v.legion vs r.sword2/3, loses, r.sword now1/3
v.legion vs r.sword2/3, wins
v.legion vs r.sword1/3, wins
v.legion vs r.bowman2/3 on hill @ cumae wins 3/4
e.legion vs r.horse 2/4 on forrest @ pisae wins 2/5
e.legion vs r.horse 2/3, wins 2/5
pike out of pisae to cover injured e.legion
ent. in cumae as one of it's MP's was used to kill r.bowman
switch rome build to settler

IBT
greeks lose 2 archers attacking byzan, 2 injured archers retreat (bombarded last turn)
3 bab swords (1v, 2r) appear in mt's ne of Ant


320AD (7)
pompeii legion->legion
v.legion vs r.archer2/3 @ pisae, promotes 5/5
v.legion returns to cumae, ent. back to the fields.
e.legion vs r.sword1/3 @ neapolis, wins 5/5
e.legion vs v.sword1/4 @ neapolis, wins 5/5
e.horse vs r.horse @ pisae, wins 5/5
v.legion vs r.horse @ pisae, wins 4/4 (not a single unit of ours took a hit this turn)

IBT
aztecs are building sistine chapel
Aztecs complete Sun Tzu's in Tenochitlan
americans are building sistine chapel
german pike moves to BG at rome. (I blocked all the others, just missed that one)
french land r.sword on hill @ cumae

330AD (8)
neap cat->legion
veii settler->settler
rome settler->legion
cumae cat->cat
I'm gonna throw some v.horses at him, at the very least it will help our economy
first v.horse rl's and retreats leaving the pike 2/3 (other horse is e actually, i'll use a v.legion)
v.legion vs r.pike2/3, wins 1/4
move pike out of rome to cover v.legion1/4 from r.swords coming through the hills
settlers are 1 tile from ant and neap (covered by legion and army, nothing in range anyway)
bombard twice and fail agains french r.sword at cumae (won't attack him this turn)

IBT
germans lose v.sword vs our v.pike, r.sword kills the pike but is now 1/3
french are building leonardo's workshop
english are building leonardo's workshop
babylonians are building leonardo's workshop
babylonians are building sistine chapel
germans are building sistine chapel
aztecs are building leonardo's workshop
russians are going to cut byzantium from our trade net (I only just build the road) but I can't stop them as the greek archers are back and I want all units in city

340AD (9)
antium legion->legion
7 v.legion (all e's were healing or in the field along our borders, will reposition if I get a chance before my set ends)
4 cats (all I could spare for now)
2 settlers
1 v.pikeman
1 army
all head n out of antium

IBT
russian spear moves to road connecting byzantium
1 greek archer dies attacking ant

350AD (10)
rome legion->legion
save without moving to pass to romeo

Firaxis: 440
Jason: 215


ok romeo, all units have not moved or bombarded yet. Thought I'd leave them so you can set them as you like for the beginning of your set.
we have our SOD still to move and will reach peppermint site this turn.
theres 2 cat's just outside pisae on their way home, they were in use between veii for a bit. (units from veii that were covering returned home last turn)
the english have just moved back in there though.
theres legions ne of rome that cleaned up the german incusion and you might want them for stopping the babs this turn (edit: actually 1 of them is injured)
the workers were heading north to connect peppermint when it's founded.

>>> SAVE <<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD0350_01.SAV)

Solid turns Nem.

One quote in particular made me happy:

all head n out of antium

We are on the way to victory! :D

Give em hell, Romeo! :hammer:

Was just checking out the save, and noticed we have 90 military units! Our allowance is 24, no wonder we're losing cash :lol:

More people and more cities needed!

yeah, the GA certainly picked up the unit production nicely. :)
(I hadn't actually noticed how many we had till it ended)

The results certainly were encouraging. I think we are playing a bit on the conservative side, though, in terms of garrison troops. Neapolis and Veii are well enough defended to ward off half a dozen knights, never mind 2-3 swords. I'm thinking Veii should go back to settler factory mode during Romeo's set to crank two more settlers. Then use some of those garrison troops to push out a couple new settlements northwest. Opinions?

There can be no question that we need more cities.

I would say that to the NW is probably a good option, as only England seems to be attacking from that direction.

I also wouldn't mind replacing those straggler cities to the SE with some of our own either.

I will get to this on Saturday. Which city sites should I go for? I know peppermint, and I will try to raze Liverpool, stopping the beatles and giving us 2 new sites. I will also try to push to Paris.

I would also consider the lonely cities S of us.

We wouldn't have to have a lot of troops there to hold the cities.

I'm just not sure if we canspare the units to go get them....

The important thing is to keep the SOD moving in the direction of Paris and not get distracted in little side skirmishes with them. Keep in tight, and if you see AI units heading south, let them go. The home-based units can deal with them. The objective here is focus on putting the big hurt on Joan.

IHT: Englsih first. Bombard and kill off stack from liverpool. 1 promotion, 1 total HP lost. March on Liver pool started. Killed French in south? Kill russian at Byzantium. Vet archer kills bab sword on hills near Antium. Lost first unit, an elite horse outside of Antium cleaning up the last of the babs. Kill French Sword near Neopolis and we get Hadrian. BTW WHO got SUN TZU?
IBT: Enemies advance, we kill a greek archer.
Turn 1: Found Peppermint City.Killed 10 units lost 3 legions.
IBT: NOthing lost
Turn 2: Nothing lost, only 4 baddies killed, but Liverpool and Corinth and Chartes are setup for bad days.
IBT: Vet archer on Defense kills 2 American Swords and a spear after he killed one the turn before on offense. And I was trying to kill him off! Also whack a greek. Russians and French have an ROP, as do babs and French.
Turn 3: ON Turn 3: Lose a Legion at Liverpool but see this. Will Wait the 24 or 2 replies.

So I nabbed 2 MGLs in pretty much no time flat. I miss the extra Movement of the armies though.

What are our options right now?

Leaning towards Sun Tzus

Sun Tzu's was built by the Aztecs in 330 AD. We can build HE, FP, or another Super Legion.

Didn't you say you got 2?

If only one, do the HE, that will get us more down the line.

If two, also build another super legion.

EDIT: I see the first now - "also get Hadrian". I'll assume you used that for an army? If so, build the HE now.

We have 1 vote for the HE. Any specific spot??

Nope, as you know, location won't matter. Wherever we have the least shields invested in a build, I suppose. :)

I am thinking Antium or Neopolis, so we get a border expansion.

Ah. Hadn't really considered that. I'm sure we can trust your judgement. :)

Turn 3: cont: Lose 1 legion but Raze Chartes, Replace with Syracuse. March on Greece. Build HE in Veii.
IBT: Kill 1 American and 3 Russian swords.
Turn 4: First Elite victory of the turn. (Pops a leader)End up losing 2 legions and a horse taking out the English trash, but now no English in sight, liverpool is razed and a city is ready to be founded.
Where do we go from here? Spare Leader Alert.
EDIT: We are strong to everyone but the Aztecs, whom we are average to.

Are you telling us you hit the hat trick in 4 turns? :eek:

What's Powerball up to? Never mind, go buy yourself a ticket anyways. :lol:

Army #3, that let's us build the Pentagon. If not enough cities yet, build them, then do same.

I want to get a crack at these guys. You're stealing all the fun. ;)

Please excuse the double post. Where we go from here is to follow what was our basic plan from the beginning, which is to have control over the southern portion of the continent by isolating and then crushing Greece. The individual AI settlements scattered throughout can be destroyed piecemeal. Do additional damage to Joan as the situation permits.

ANOTHER ONE!?!
:beer: [dance] :worship: :cooool: :clap: :banana: :bounce: :rockon: :smoke: :thumbsup:

OK, I'm all better now.

Hey tal - you remember the PM I sent you? Something about three rng squaring up by giving us the MGL's in one set?

BTW - of course, build another army.

Do we need an updated dot map?

Fantastic news Romeo!

Keep up the good work ;)

I suppose 3 legion armies is nothing to be sniffed at, especially if it allows another mini wonder... At some stage soon, we will need the FP, and a MGL build is preferable. But armies and the Pentagon = military might...

@Sesn - looks like you were right - again ;)

My dotmap skills will be hors de combat until monday by the way - wait, or step up!

It couldn't hurt. I razed and replace chartes, and am settling on Green by liverpool. (on Hill location) (Slight color blindness)
#3 Army then the Pentagon. sounds good to me. Resettled peppermint.
I already had 12 elite wins this turnset alone. (that didn't give us winners.)

Are the rest of the turns going to be done today?

Turn 4: Form Army and move forces north.
IBT: kill 1 American Sword and 1 Russian.
Turn 5: Build Gonzo town. Lose 1 legion kill 2 hoplites, 1 archer raze corinth.
IBT: Kill 1 American Sword, lose a legion in the hills.
Turn 6:Nove stuff around, setting up for another big push into French Land.
IBT: Kill russian archer, England builds Sistene.
Turn 7: Lose my sword killing archer wo a sword. Kill misc units. Can't take cats against greece, so heading to buffalo.
IBT: English start bachs, and Ally Japan against us. Kill several Americans at Syracuse.
Turn 8: Move around stuff. Lose two legions assualting a New Greek city that is near their iron.
IBT: Several cities riot for no real reason. No lux or anything changed. Kill many babs and German units.
Turn 9: Attack stuff (English) and move on Paris.
IBT: Germany BUilds Leo's
Turn 10: Plant a new anti greek city, Move settler to location to found fishing town on Dotmap. Most left unmoved, We now only lose 2 gpt.

Notes: We have a nice stack approaching Paris of 5-6 legions, 6 cats. There is a force assembling to go get Pharslos, and then more greek territory. There is a force in Gonzotown to stop the English. There really isn't much to do but let one stack take 2-3 enemy cities, stop, resettle, and have another one push on after some healing and slapping invading units.
We have no enemy units in our core, and I am building a temple for Rome to help with our non-culture and happiness.
Firaxis Score 477, Json Score 233.
The only wooden spoon in use here is what we paddle our opponents butts with.

Excellent job, Romeo. :)

Amazing how much ten turns can change your perception of a game, huh?

After a bit of reflection, I'm not sure that the Pentagon is the way to go. We won't be able to transport the armies if we load a fourth in. Maybe time to plan out where we put the FP.

Build the FP with a ring of three or four, and we'll have doubled our capabilities.

ROSTER:
M60 - UP
Tal - On Deck
Sesn
Nem
Romeo

M60 - remember to declare on the inherited turn (Japan)

Nice stuff romeo.

Sesn, japan have already declared. England signed the up against us in between 7 and 8 of romeos.

Oops, managed to miss that somehow (was a long night....)

So now it's just India. I imagine they'll get signed on, but if not Tal will get the honors. :)

The latest save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD0550_01.SAV)

Turn 0 (450AD) - Bombard a couple units. Renegotiate Peace with Ghandi for 18 gold, then tell him he’s a loser and declare. We weren’t going to get anything else from this guy who was furious, so I figured what the heck. No point keeping anyone at peace, free to build a lot of infrastructure. Sorry, Tal.

IBT- Russia loses a sword attacking Antium.. Babylon completes Copernicus.

Turn 1 (460AD) Vet legion vs reg hop, we’re redlined, he’s dead, 1 gold and ashes where Pharsalos used to be. Kill 2 Bab swords 1E of Gonzo with 1 elite* Legion, 1 elite legion. Horse knocks off eng longbow, promotes to elite. Neocaledonium founded.

IBT- AI is trying to slip units as far east as it can. No combat this go.

Turn 2 (470AD) Vet horse kills vet eng longbow.

IBT- France loses a vet sword to vet legion. Start building some granaries.

Turn 3 (480AD) Elite* legion kills reg longbow, loses 3 hp. Cats redline reg fr sword, Sesn Slayers finish it off. Elite horse kills reg Bab longbow. Greek reg hop trying to get at our vino. Kill him w/ Rome legion and cat fire. Elite legion kills reg Greek archer. American worker at Buffalo goes bye-bye. Russian settler and red spear killed at Byzantium by reg legion.

IBT- German vet longbow attacks legion, he dies, second one comes up, we die. Reg bab bow dies vs vet legion, but is redlined, Vet Bab sword kills our legion.

Turn 4 (490AD) e.legion kills r.American sword. Cats bombard Bab town of Eridu, 2 legions kill reg bab spear and bow. Razed for 0 gold, kill worker. Army and cats kill v.German pike. V.Legion kills r.American spear.

IBT- 2 r.Russan swords die attacking Brundisium. 1 v.German sword dies attacking Syracuse. Bab v.sword kills our e.horse, loses hp. That’s the second unit he’s killed, so he’s first to go next turn. Greek galley unloads reg archer by Cumae.

Turn 5 (500AD) cats and e.legion kill the sword as promised. R,Greek archer dies at Cumae. Elite legion dies at Buffalo, 1hp off reg spear. 2 legions and a cat attack Bab town of Lagash. Kill spear and bow. Raze, no gold, kill worker.

IBT- e.legion fends off v.Russian longbow, then loses to a Bab one. Lose another legion to an English longbow.

Turn 6 (510AD)- e.legion redlined killing r.spear at Norwich, but he’ll die IBT with 4 adjacent English units. The English are heavily reinforcing there. V.legion dies vs second. Sesn slayers kill pike at Antium at Avignon, but are down to 4 hp. Kill Bab settler with bow escort with army. Do the same thing to a French settler with reg spear. Kill v.German sword by Brundisium. Lose a v.legion, kill a v.American sword @ Buffalo. Lose another v.legion there. Cats bombard around Paris, destroy 1 road/mine tile.

IBT- Lose the legion by Norwich, and a second one to v.German sword. Brits drop a longbow @ Cumae

Turn 7 (520AD) Aesonesium founded. Lose a pike trying to get the longbow the brits end-runned us with, redlined him.

IBT- Americans lose a sword attacking Ravenna.

Lost Turn 8 (530AD) and IBT somewhere. Sorry…

Turn 9 (540AD) Finish off the Cumae longbow. Lose vet legion at Kish vs reg spear. Kill a r.English pike @ Gonzo. Kill a r.Bab longbow @ Lyons. Lose another v legion @ Antium vs. r.Russian pike.

IBT- I let Rome riot moving out the legion I sent against Russian pillage pair @ Antium. :mad: America loses a v.sword vs. Ravenna, English lose 2 longbows vs Newcaledonium

Turn 10 (550AD) Knock off an English and American settler pair @ Aesonium w/e.legion. Do the same to the Greeks by Lunacantorium. Kill the r.Russian pike, spear that were by Antium. Firaxis score: 520.

Post turn comments. Not nearly the success I was looking for. I was trying to do too much between razing cities in the south, trying to eliminate Buffalo, and beat up on France. And in the meantime take out endless settler pairs. The longbows are taking their tolls on our legions. If I had tried a direct assault on Paris, don’t know that I would have had any success as it’s size 10, and defended by vet pikes. I did bombard away some improvements there, and have cut the road running to her towns southeast of Paris.

Good news is with the addition of the 2 newest towns in the northwest, we’re back to a positive cash flow. I focused worker improvements on connecting the towns by road so we can easily shift from defenders from one town to another. But we need to complete the road up to the mined hill tile south of Syracuse so we have a fast route up there. The reg Russian sword forted by Brundisium is a real nuisance.

Bad news is the flow of AI units isn’t slowing of course, and as indicated the legions aren’t cutting edge any more. We have 2 armies in the east, but one of them only has one legion in it. I didn’t catch that at first, I don’t know that that was made clear. We need to fill it.

Once we have the road completed, and the army filled, I think we have to use all 3 armies together to break these pike-fortified towns above size 6. The individual legions are just too vulnerable to the longbow or fort vet pikes. That is why I hestitated to try a direct attack vs. Paris, and especially when the longbows quickly killed a couple of our legions by Paris. The AI was using the Paris-Lyons-Avignon autobahn to run units down south, but that is now closed due to falling rocks. ;)

Screen shots of the front to follow.

That’s about it. On to the next better player!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SESN_SGOTM3_550AD_East_Front.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SESN_SGOTM3_550AD_West_Front.JPG

It can certainly be difficult to juggle all the necessary tasks in this game. Looks like you did fine to me.

Glad to be back to positive cash. Can we just hire a scientist somewhere, rather than running science at 10%?

We should get another defender or two in Syracuse so we can free up the army.

We'll need to get more cats, I suppose. We won't have a better attacker for quite some time, so we need to stack the odds more.

What's our research path? We can get to Chivalry in 80 turns, or cavs in 160. I'm leaning towards Chivalry, though I'm not sure how much help knights will be in 80 turns from now.

Rather than trying to attack everyone at once, we should probably focus on one enemy at a time, and push them to extinction. I'd like to be able to settle the Greek area of our continent, but I don't know that we can do that anytime soon, and still keep up the pressure on the French.

After France, looks like England is the next priority.

ROSTER:
Tal - UP
Sesn - On Deck
Nem
Romeo
M60

Nice Turns. I concur on pushing one enemy to extinction. I vote the French, then the Greeks. We can use 2 Armies to do this, and then use 1 army for Zone D. (Is it really Zone D if we know where they are headed?) Can we puppet string in this game??
I had a lone scientist working at the begining and end of my turns. I vote for a hard push to cavs. The Raze replace to slowly expand our borders is taking care of our massive deficiet, and we may be able to tech in 20-30 turns. (We don't have any biblo's though).

When I said I didn't have the success I was hoping for, I thought I just lost too many legions. Of course on the offense you have to expect that. The town of Buffalo with pikes defending on a hill makes it a tougher nut to crack than it looks. Sevastopol is a 2 defender set with reg spears. The couple other towns in the far south are about the same way. I should have concentrated the troops in that area rather than spread them out. We can build in the far south where I razed the Bab town, and the site of old Pharsalos is available, although not particularly well suited for defense.

@ Sesn: The reason I suggested Pentagon is based on our near-term situation. The AI first-line defender are pikes now, and will be muskets at some point soon since they have had invention for a bit. Even with cat spt, an elite 3-3-1 legion will have it's hands full attacking them, esp where they're fortified in a 6+ town. A four legion army will have a better survival rate, where they may have to tackle a forted 3-hp musket. Yes, we can't send them overseas, but since we don't get to pillage with them, and based on the time it will take to clear our own continent, I doubt we will have much use for legions by the time we get over there.

On science, sounds like a good idea to commit to a scientist. We should decide where to put it, and make sure everyone keeps an eye on that town so he doesn't disappear, as they do from time to time. Research path, I'd go with Romeo on this one. Take the longbow over knights at this point. As long as we can shift legions and cats back and forth along the roads, defensively we should be in good shape until they get cav. With the roads, our legions effectively become a 3-3-3 unit.

East front, I keep trying to figure out how to defend this. Problem is with all the mountains running north-south, we cannot get the same defensive advantages as we do in the west. Think maybe from the Syracuse-Lyon line, add a walled town on the horse tile, and then a second on the hill tile 1NE of Lyons. That gives us the coastal town on a hill, from which all attacks have to come from lower ground. It would help to stop the free flow of AI units in the east. We can force it to launch head-on attacks at bad odds, and gives the armies a free hand in clearing out our area.

We have to expect to take losses. All we can do is to try to improve our odds with cats.

OK, so let's commit a single scientist to Invention. Maybe after those 40 turns, we'll have enough towns to be able to turn science up a bit.

Unless we get Leo's, all our MGL's will be armies and small wonders from here on out. Is there a situation where we can build the Academy before Mil Trad, or do I need more coffee?

BTW - and it doesn't matter much - We have been handling things wrong when civs declare on us. See posts 48 and 51 of the maint. thread. :( On second thought, we screwed ourselves of some trading opps...

Got it - will play tomorrow...

By the way, good job guys.

Leo's was built in my turns. I Vote lots of huge armies.

Once the Slayer army picks up a couple more points on the health bar, it may be best to use it in conjunction with the 2 legion/7 cat group. That would give you a 10 cat bombardment team with which you can bring down Lyons.

Pre-flight - assess the military situation; swap the tax collector in Cumae for a scientist then lower the tax rate to zero, making an extra 6gpt... An extra bit of MM gets another 2gpt. Press enter.

IBT - Syracuse fends off a sword; Greece and Babylon send ambassadors who are beheaded then sent back...

Turn 1

Catapults in Neocaledonium go 0 for 3 vs English archers. Same at Sevastopol and Tlalmenolco. Out of 7 efforts at Lyons, one hp is taken off a pikeman... Kill two archers, lose one elite legion. The RNG is not my friend this round...

IBT - The RNG smiles on us, as an archer attack is heroically beaten off at Brundisium

Turn 2

Library at Lyons destroyed, otherwise nothing. A minor victory at Neocal, but there will be an onslaught next turn. Claudius builds the Pentagon. At the moment we have 3x3 slot armies. Now we will have 3x4, which will help against these pikes. Every army we build now puts us ahead of where we would be if I'd made another army - also, by the time we invade anywhere by sea, we'll have galleons at least (if not transports!), and certainly we'll have the Military Academy if we need empty armies for transport...

In other news, Cumae (which is unreinforceable...) has an English archer next to it which was dropped off by sea.

IBT - One unit in Cumae destroyed

Turn 3

More feeble artillery work - one French settler killed and slaves crucified on the spot... Our forces are too split to be of much offensive value at the moment.

IBT - English commit suicide attacking our fortified army in Neocal...

Turn 4

Two veteran horsemen hunt down the English archer naval force. One promotes. Elite legion kills Eng archer, nothing; Elite legion kills German pike and settler - nothing.

IBT - Elite legion fends off rl American archer and then an American knight! Oh bugger. Then he is killed by a Babylonian knight, whose friends start to appear in large numbers.

Turn 5

Elite legionary loses flawlessly to redlined English sword...

IBT - 2 minor victories, lots more knights approach, this time Bab, American and English.

Turn 6

Our elite horse dies flawlessly against an Aztec horse...

IBT - This is how the RNG is treating me, a German PIKE attacks against a fortified elite horse on hills across a river and wins...

Turn 7

Vet legionary kills Jaguar Warrior, promotes. The SoD near Lyons gallantly fights for its life, joining up with the army...

IBT - Several attacks beaten off, but it's like fighting a hydra now

Turn 8

Some bombardments, but mostly manic defence and shuffling of units, trying to pick off attackers where I can. The new mobility of the enemy is costing us.

IBT - Sesn's Slayers hit hard by suicide attacks - I've never seen the like before...

Turn 9

Really not much to relate - some desperate bombardments, one kill, Sesn's Slayers flee the gathering hordes of knights. Taking Lyons now means nothing, it's a size 2 town... Losing 10 catapults would hurt.

IBT - Fend off atacks in 6 of our towns, it's hotting up!

Turn 10

Some initial movements, but no attacks - I would prefer the next player to be able to dictate the pattern of attacks on his turns.

Looking back on this turnset, it's hard to say where it all went wrong. I think the appearance of knights was crucial, but we are simply being overwhelmed.

Sorry :(

Well the knights were to be expected. If the AI had real intelligence, a couple caravels would have dropped 6 of them @ Cumae and put us against the wall. I hope the elite legion that died in turn 5 had like 1hp rather than 5. The Slayer army should be up to full strength now. Think you can pull down Lyons?

M60 crossed with my second half of the turnlog.

In answer to your question, no, the Elite Legion had 5hp (i'm not daft enough to attack with an injured unit).

The offensive on Lyons has been temporarily abandoned due to casualties in the army (I know! The AI attacking an army with knights. Unheard of :sad: )

Yes, in PTW armies are definitely attacked, unlike in Conquests where they are avoided. You were right to not compound a problem and chose to back off Lyons. So where do we stand here? Maybe we should all take a look at the latest save from Tal before moving on, to see what ideas can be generated. It does seem our only effective, survivable offense can be generated with a minimum of 2 4-legion armies accompanied by cats.

Amazing how much ten turns can change your perception of a game, huh?

The rng giveth, and the rng taketh away. :rolleyes:

I'll take a look at the save when I get home. Won't play until we concur on a course of action.

I took a look at 3 saves, 450-550-650AD. Here is how our numbers compare in 3 categories:

Military

450AD
92 units
35 legions
14 pike
24 cats
10 workers

550AD
91 units
34 legions
10 pikes
27 cats
11 workers

650AD
101 units
43 legions
10 pikes
27 cats
10 workers

Economic

450AD
Treasury 131
Income 90

550AD
Treasury 122
Income 114

650AD
Treasury 201
Income 128

Demographics

450AD
Towns 15
Citizens 51

550AD
Towns 17
Citizens 60

650AD
Towns 17
Citizens 67

In every category we are improving, except for # of towns in the last 10. There are 2 settlers in Rome which we should try to get planted as soon as we can.. Until they get cav, even with his knights we can outmaneuver the AI every time with our legions using the roads. Garrisons on the inside of the empire should be bare minimum, as they shouldn’t be taken by surprise. Neapolis has 2 legions, spear, pike, 2 cats. I’d upgrade the spear (yes I know the doctrine among some is never upgrade elites, but I don’t think spears count, as a 2 defense is really weak now, even behind walls). Move the cats and 2 legions to the front. Antium has 2 legions and a pike & spear. Same thing here.

Everyone should expect we’re going to get these pillagers lurking in our rear for a while. With new troops coming out of towns and a modest garrison, that can be handled. I would consider changing a couple of these legion builds, our army is @ 101. Pretty healthy. Could probably use a couple more workers if anything to help develop the south. Maybe even squeeze a market in Rome. We have to grow economically to keep supplying a bigger army.

The army @ Syracuse needs to be filled now. Move it 1 south, and you can move up the 2 legions from Brundesium and load it there, then re-occupy the town and go from there.

West front looks just fine. Not concerned in the least.

Figure out how to keep the Slayers alive. If we lose it, it’s because I left it out there without much support which was a mistake. Of course I wasn’t expecting knights in volume this soon. Get them linked up with the army in Syracuse, reinforce the east front and let’s take another crack @ Lyons and Avignon.

You did fine, Tal. I lost more units than I built during my 10 and shrunk the treasury to boot. You more than made up for it! ;)

Let's continue to march.

Looking back on this turnset, it's hard to say where it all went wrong

Don't be so hard on yourself Tal, if anything is wrong it's probably that we're at war with 10 civs. :)
Given the nature of the varient, this was unavoidable.

I've just been checking up Sesn's point about how we messed up the declarations. Ah well, I suppose we all totally misinterpreted that one. However, i don't think it would have made that much difference, since we'd still be at war with England, US and Babylon and they are the ones giving us trouble.

As for my turns, I'm not really sure there was anything I could do. As you point out, I was only able to hunker down and try to build up the miilitary - I was never able to expand and find a place for those two settlers that wasn't covered in knights!

It's a real shame we didn't get an earlier MGL. Even Sun Tzu's would have saved us a lot of cash, and maybe enabled research - not to mention that expansion might have been feasible, with 2 4-slot armies that could then rest in the barracks built in a newly captured town...

I want to keep playing to the bitter end, but I also want to ask honestly if we think we can still win. I am not convinced, if only because soon enough we'll be facing cavalry - I am not entirely sure how far the AI is ahead in tech, but it seems that they are all intent on sharing now, united against the common enemy (us ;) )

The further ahead the AI gets, the less chance we have in combat. Anyway, it's an interesting game, and unlike any other I've played, that's for sure!

Don't be so pessimistic. This is still very winnable. IF Nem does a setup job anywhere close to as beuatifully as last time, the dogs of war will be rumbling everywhere. We have not lost a city in 50+ turns, and I don't see any falling soon. We will just plow forward with the tenacity of a 3rd string O-lineman trying to not get cut from the team.

Sorry guys, didn't even have a chance to look at the save last night. I'll play tonight, so any advice should be posted before then.

I am a long way from giving up on tis game, although the appearance of knights makes our situation more severe. Pikes behind walls should still win most of the time though, and knights are an expensive build, at least.

I find it more than a bit disconcerting that our armies are being attacked, but I guess that just means we'll have to consolidate our forces into one or two bigger stacks, rather than three or four smaller ones.

Now more than ever, we need to start eliminating rivals. We can't keep fighting a war on several fronts, as we'll be stretched too thin too quick.

We'll also have to start researching at the max sustainable rate. Even if we can only get techs in thirty turns instead of forty, by the time we get to MT, we have saved ourselves 40 turns. Yes, I know you mentioned this somewhere along the line, Romeo.

Just some generic thoughts, I'll have a better idea when I see the save.

Also, I'd like to see a lot of strategizing between turns from here on out. We'll need to all be working from the same page in order to get this done.

Sounds good here boss. Me, do an I told you so? Never!! Well, maybe. j/k. I just like a little verbal riposte every now and again. I concur with the elimination strategy. We know where the attacks come in. We should thus try to get an army in the 2 key cities, and let the AI suicide. (Barracks in those cities would really help.) Then take the third Army, and all spare troops and do what was suggested 80 turns ago, (By someone else) elimanate the greeks and backfill. We should be able to easily smash the tundra towns the Russians and Aztecs have down there, and replant some to get our economy started. The Greeks probably have the great 2 hoplite, 1 archer combo in all their cities. I would assault each city with 4 legions and one horse, or 1 army, 2 legions or one horse. The horse is to race ahead and park next to the city to draw the archer out. Then the horse "Should" run away, leaving an exposed archer, and no counterattack from the city.
In closing, concentrate all new forces on our back side, and good luck Sesn. Keep fighting the good fight. Remember that God causes the rain to fall on both the righteous and the wicked, I just don't know where we stand. Plus it's raining in the desert that is Rapid City, so that could be a good omen.
Maybe I am a little longwinded and lost here, but we should still be solid.

I made my case for continuing above, so 'nuff ced. Is it winnable? If the AI exclusively wages war on us, I doubt it. Will the AI exclusively wage war on us. I very seriously doubt it. You've got Bismarck and 3 expansionist civs on the continent; that is an accident waiting to happen. It's a matter of time before one tries to extort the other, then their forces will be busy elsewhere.

Keep killing settler pairs. Every time we do, the AI will waste 60 more shields to replace them. Human players recognize the futility of sending these sacrificial lambs into the teeth of the AI. The AI can't do that, it is programmed to keep trying to settle open land, so we can use that logic against it in an ongoing waste of resources.

What about stealing advances? I haven't done this much and understand it's cheaper than self research. Don't know how war factors into success rates.

Yes, in PTW the armies need to stay on defensive terrain too. They will be attacked.

Does anyone have thoughts on strategy beyond what's been discussed? I know Sesn wants to go after Greece. My feeling hasn't changed. Destroy Lyons, park the 2 cities down 2SW and 1NE of there and wall them immediately. Then we can work 2 4-legion army w/cats SOD to the south where Avignon, Thermo, Buffalo and all of Greece will be vulnerable. All those AI hamlets in the south can't survive on their own.

The territory south of the line running all the way from Neocaledonium to Lyons is roughly 40% of the continent. If we hold that, and there are 6 AIs squeezed into the rest, we really should be able to gain the upper hand.

Guess I'll double post here having read Romeo's comments. What follows is just my opinion. Going directly at Greece first is like we're a submarine that's leaking water, and the captain's immediate focus is on killing the SOB that's depth charging us. Generally speaking, that strategy causes us to sink. Step 1 is seal the hull breach and get the pumps going. Once ship integrity is restored, then we can come up to periscope depth and fire away. In this case, we should put ourselves in a position to beat the AI up as they try to come along the low ground in the east where we control these mountains and hills. I'm not convinced the AI will be baited into attacking legion armies forted behind walled cities. In any case, it's overkill and more than defending, we need the armies to attack.

I think (and I'm pretty sure it's been suggested, by m60 I think) that we need take the cities to our ne so we can extend our border all the way from coast to coast. Then we can look at finishing greece and the other scrap cities to our se or can push into the heart of France and clean up those southern english cities. I'm at work at the moment so can't look at the save to give a more detailed plan.

edit: when I say take, I mean burn and replace.

After yet another disheartening loss by the Red Sox, I go to work.

Wo, do things ever look different than the last time I saw this.

There are a number of units roaming our territory. Syracuse is also under intense pressure. Unfortunately, none of the units are stacked, so I can’t attack and remain in the city.

I steal a couple units to fill the army in Syracuse.
Vet legion kills Fr LB near Hispalis. Pull army from Neowhatever to kill vet pike. Elite legion kills rl pike/settler pair. Elite legion kills reg archer. Vet legion kills Gr settler pair. Vet legion kills vet Bab LB. Move a couple workers around.

And then I run out of units to move.

IT – We survive two attacks, with one of our legions promoting.

660 ad (1) – Rome legion -> legion. Cumae legion -> pike. Neap leg -> leg. Vet legion loses to vet LB. And again! :mad: finally kill a LB with a legion, and he promotes. Kill another. Bombard some units, but again, no real stacks to attack.

IT – The English start Shakespeare’s. :eek: See a couple Am knights trying to flank to our east.

670 ad (2) – Gonzo cat -> cat. Army retreats vet knight. Vet legion kills elite LB. Vet legion kills vet LB.

IT – Elite legion behind walls loses to a reg LB, -1hp. We retreat a few attacking knights.

680 ad (3) – Rome legion -> legion. Pompeii legion -> legion. Pisae legion -> cat. Hispalis legion -> cat. Byz leg -> cat. Luna walls -> cat. Vet legion wins and promotes vs reg LB. Vet legion kills Aztec settler pair. Elite legion wins vs rl knight.

IT – We fend off a lot of attacks, gaining two promotions. Japanese start Megellans. :sigh:

690 ad (4) – Veii legion -> legion. Antium legion -> legion. Ravenna legion -> legion. Vet legion kills vet LB. Elite legion kills 2/4 LB. Army kills vet knight. Bombard a few units/improvements. AAARRRGGGHHH! A misclick leaves 4 workers out in the open, rather than in Ravenna. Not sure that I can protect them from the two knights right next door. I risk two vet legions. Hopefully at least one will hold.

IT – one legion does indeed hold.

700 ad (5) – Rome legion -> legion. Cumae pike -> legion. Neap legion -> legion. Lug legion -> cat. Brundisium cat -> cat. Even though cats go 0fer, vet legion wins and promotes vs vet spear in tlalosomething, city is burned. Caesaraugusta is founded. Elite legion wins vs reg LB.

I watch in nothing short of horror as the 10 hp slayer army loses flawlessly to a 2/4 knight on pastoralis. The worst part is that the slayer army was trying to escort home TEN cats. They are way out in no mans land, and there is zero possibility of saving them. I bombard everything in sight anyhow.

Kill a couple more LB’s with vet legions.

IT – We hold off several attacks, but lose an elite legion to a knight, again flawlessly. The people give us a palace expansion! :lol: Aztecs begin Smith’s.

710 ad (6) – Try to bombard a couple units, but I’m largely unsuccessful, surprisingly enough. On the upside, we now make 17 gpt. :rolleyes:

IT – Somehow we manage to avoid losing any units.

720 ad (7) – Pompeii legion -> legion. Elite legion kills reg LB. Two vet legions destroy Kish. Elite legion kills rl knight. Elite legion gets rl killing reg LB.

IT – Lose an elite legion in counters.

730 ad (8) – Rome legion -> legion. Antium legion -> legion. Cumae legion -> legion. Aeson rax -> cat. Elite legion kills rl knight, and the rng offers me a token. Anthony is born, and Sesn’s slayers are reborn.

IT – Lose a vet legion, fortified, behind walls, across a river, in Brundisium (hills), and the attacking knight lost a single hp. :sigh:

740 ad (9) – Veii legion -> legion. Neap legion -> legion. Gonzo cat -> cat. Elite legion kills reg LB. Two vet legions kill two vet swords that were dropped off next to Caesaraugusta.

IT – We lose two more legions in Brundisium. What is it about that town? German sword also cuts road to Syracuse.

750 ad (10) – Rome legion -> legion. I miss Antium’s growth, and Antium riots. Pompeii legion -> legion. Pisae cat -> cat. Ravenna legion -> legion. Vet legion kills vet sword near Caesaraugusta and promotes.

I have left most of the offensive units unmoved for two reasons: I am getting rather frustrated with this game tonight, and it seems like that has become something of a habit in this game.

I have no comments at this time, but I will post some thoughts tomorrow.

Firaxis - 606
Jason - 296

GRRRRR (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD0750_01.SAV)

The war zone

hmm, things look tough. I got it, leaving work in about 20 minutes, will play and post when I get home.

Bad luck Sesn :(

Whilst you survived well, I think you demonstrated that the RNG is gonna get us - losing the army and then this...?

IT – Lose a vet legion, fortified, behind walls, across a river, in Brundisium (hills), and the attacking knight lost a single hp. :sigh:

That just sucks...

My main concern, though, is that whilst we are researching invention, the AI are nearly at the Industrial age, although we don't know how far along the bottom of the tech tree they are. But Shakespeare's?? :wow:

Facing riflemen with legions and longbows will be tough. It might even negate the possibility of a conquest or doomination win.

I therefore think we should consider the possibility of trying for a diplomatic victory ;)

The rng gods are indeed angry with us (but not Romeo :lol: ), and I don'tthink they can be appeased at this point.

More than facing rifles, I worry how long before we see some cavs running through the fog.

We are getting swamped. It was all I could do to hold our ground. I started to assemble troops in Syracuse for a push on Paris, and then I lost all the cats.

We have a settler in the south, I was going to settle between the two game tiles down there.

You're right Tal, that attack was a microcosm of my turns.

The ai seems to be cycling between pressuring Ravenna, and Brundisium/Syracuse.

With the army in whatever town that is on the western front, the English are a non issue, but we can't pull out the army either.

I'm veginning to feel pretty pessimistic about this game, and for that I apologize. However, I have started to realize we may get the dubious distinction of being the first team to lose a SGOTM. Go us!

Looking over my turns, I don't see any real tactical blunders, but it sure feels like I made some.

the dubious distinction of being the first team to lose a SGOTM

Actually, Team Ankka had an unfortunate accident in their OCC SG1.

Hey guys, maybe one of you can help me out here. I am interested in playing the Conquest of the month. How do I do this? I downloaded the save, but do I post intent somewhere? If I do play, which saves must I submit? Where do I submit? I haven't found a good list of what, where, when and how yet. Any rules? or can I exploit away?

@Romeo: Same rules as GoTM, I believe, so no sploits, only dastardliness... I don't *think* you need to submit any save bar the last, but you need to keep regular saves for examination if necessary (I keep all the thousands, plus 500AD and every 100 or so after 1000AD, just in case) - you submit in the CoTM sidebar of the GoTM page on the main CFC page.

@Sesn: I had similar feelings after my turns. I must have made a mistake, there must have been something I could have done.

But I think the simple fact is, we are not used to losing. A combination of very tough variant and lousy, lousy, awful luck has combined to put us in the position the AI usually occupies (in fact, even worse). And we just are not used to it!

As for the pessimism, I feel it too. I will fight on as long as possible and as hard as I can, but I think that cavalry and cannon are not far away, and then it really will be bend-over time.

So history will say the Roman Army did its duty, but succumbed to overwhelming numbers and unfortunate circumstances? Could be, but we're not done yet. I wish the AI would build cannons, so we could capture them! Still need new settlements in the south. We have the troops there to clean out that area.

You can't capture a bombard unit you don't have the tech for though.. It gets destroyed instead :(

Tarkeel, have you guys finished? I knew your team were way ahead, but if you are done, that's fairly impressive...

Thanks, Tarkeel. I had seen that, but didn't understand why before.

Yes, immense odds, and poor luck. Feels like a cop out though.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that we were doomed from the get go. Where did it all go wrong?

1. The confusing rules, which led to unnecessary declarations. I'm beginning to think this was more important than originally thought because of the trading opps missed. How much different would things be if we could fight back with knights and knight armies?

2. Bad rng. Again, this feels like a cop out. We are all aware that the rng is fickle, and should not have to rely on it so heavily, but ONE leader to rush the GL and boom....

3. Lack of a cohesive strat early on. I think that we delayed using legions too long. Yes, we also made our GA more effective in doing so, but the effective lifespan of legions is not all that long. Pikes were prevalent not long after we started using them in force.

4. For me, lack of AW experience made this even more difficult. It is quite apparent that things must be handled much differently in this type of game. I'm not sure what things we should have done differently regarding this, but I imagine that's part of the problem. We did however, pass the "can I hold the line" phase, which I thought meant the game is effectively won, but our breather didn't last for long.

5. I think that we should have focused on Greece first. While there is no way to predict how things would have differed (and I really liked the sub analogy M60), I can say that if we had been able to backfill it would have two effects: First, it would have rid us of a second front that while little more than a nuisance, still drained some forces. Second, we probably would have been able to assimilate the mountains, making our enemies attack us from open ground where there is no defensive bonuses.

6. Finally, if you look in the spoilers, we were contacted by Greece before any other team. In some cases only a few turns early, in others many turns earlier. Again a guess as to the impact, but we couldn't even get a second city down without having to have sufficient defenders.

None of these points are meant to be a slight in any way shape or form on anyone. Indeed, I was as much at fault here as anyone for the human errors made. I am merely trying to identify what things had a large impact on how this game will end up, and by doing so, improve my own gameplay and understanding of this type of variant. I would appreciate any input anyone has on any of these things to furthur clarify.

I am sorry if I seem to have a very pessimistic attitude about this game suddenly. I spent several hours last night observing the futility though. It also doesn't help that there are few things in this life I dislike more than losing.

Make no mistake. I will play this game to the bitter end and make the bastards pay at every oppurtunity. We will not go quietly into the night.... :ninja:

EDIT: If nothing else, my little rant there was rather therapeutic. I'm feeling much better now. :)

I agree with all that Sesn. Some inexperience, some bad karma...

Still, it's a learning experience! By the way, i think our pessimism is shared because the others have not yet played a set of 10 turns after the appearance of knights. Once you do, and you see that you are holding back the tide with a bucket, pessimism is a natural reaction!

By the way, once more for effect...

SHAKESPEARE'S!! :wow:

I'll try to keep this somewhat simple w/regards to the above.

1&2. Certainly the GLib goes a ways to balancing the field.

3. I could go on a ways on this one. If we had gone GA in despotism, we would not have gotten the shield bonus where a tile was already producing 2. That would have significantly reduced Rome's production where we had a good number of BGs. True, we would have settled a bit faster, and maybe gotten us over the hill.

I don't know a legions lifespan is affected as much by the pike as by the longbow, esp with the Medeival Infantry modded out. To win this kind of game, you need good kill ratios, and a 4-1-1 LB can kill legions that aren't forted on good terrain all too often. You would think the 3 defense of the legion would count for more.

5. I understand that killing Greece first means one less player on the map. But has Greece really been the problem of a second front? We lost the one town to archers, which from the git-go I knew was a risk with a 1-spear defender. What else have they threated us with? He had no swords, no horses/knights. His terrain basically stinks, hemmed in by the mountains. The threat of the east IMHO have been all the other AI troops marching through.

The biggest problem, (and I've never played an AW game through, period) is that you have to defend what you settle. At least that's the conclusion I came through on all the reading I've done. To do that, we would have to road all the way across to Athens/Sparta, dropping new towns every 3-4 tiles. The workforce just hasn't been there, as 10 workers won't get it done. We needed them to develop the core. Not sure how we assimilate the mountains. It's virtually impossible to defend some of these hills and not expect casualties even with forted troops in walled towns because there are so many adjacent mountain tiles, and we can't occupy all of them. Maybe some of the Spoilers will prove Sesn right on this one. I certainly won't feel hurt if they do.

6. If you have the original 4000 BC save, do this. Play 20 turns. At the start, plant the settler and lock the worker down in place and simply do nothing. Keep skipping turns. As soon as Rome culture pops, the same thing happens every time. You see the Greek hoplight outside the expanded border. Every time, he does the same thing, wanders back east without saying anything. What happens after that is a seemingly random event. Sometime Alex contacts you to trade for WC, and sometime he does not. That was a big variable that worked against us. I don't see how the "smart player" controls this.

I'm not trying to act like rah-rah, nothing to fear here. We may be 99.5% doomed, but let's take it one step at a time. Don't worry about cav, we're not there yet. We still have terrain to settle in the south, let's do it. The AI will make stupid unit moves. Take advantage of them. We shouldn't just build legions, we need some infrastructure. When an elite legion in a walled town loses to a 1hp sword, don't let it get to you. Walk away from the game for a few if you have to. We're playing to win, not see how long it takes for our last legion to die in Rome. I didn't sign on for that. End of rant, now I feel better!

I'm gald that a bit of blowing off steam has helped everyone!

I didn't mean to come across as negative or that I was looking to blame something or someone. Nor do I want people to think I've lost hope (not quite there yet ;) )

Basically, I do whiney rants - M60 does proper ranty rants!

Here are some cohesive thoughts in the spirit of playing with optimism:

There is already a settler en route to the open space down south. I would plant him between the two game tiles.

We have enough units in Syracuse to march on Paris. This may prove costly in two ways though: We may lose all or most of the stack in the process, and we may lose Syracuse.

There is a smaller stack in the south on the intended settling spot that have thus far been effective in razing those little outpost towns.

It seems that an army behind walls can take almost all comers. May want to consider using the armies defensively, especially if the ai will attack us in the open anyhow.

We can slow the rate of units into our territory if we can destroy a few key roads in France. One was bombed out before I lost the cats, but there are a couple more that would help.

The only useful infra I can see at this point is markets and temples. Markets for the money, and temples for their happiness/culture expansion. Libraries would be nice, but it's hard to justify the shield investment.

After we get Invention, we should go for gunpowder at the max sustainable rate.

Speaking of gunpowder, I saw the first mousketeer at the end of my turns, so maybe cavs/cannons are a little ways off anyhow....

EDIT: on each of my last two turns, two vet swords were dropped off by Caesaraugusta. There is currently still one wounded one there.

I like your last post sens. I concur with most of the ideas. The main problem that we have is that we were/are not aggressive enough. When it comes to my turns I usually fire out with everything I have. I think we must play aggressive. Now that France has D'artagnan fighting for them, I would hold off on a Paris assualt until we pick up another army. I think Nem and I should highly concentrate on clearing out our backside and then trying to push up to set up the wall of cities like M60 suggested. I think in 20 turns, we can flatten the greeks and other interlopers. Do not be afraid to risk a few units, we can always build more. I usually only use the cats for Defense, by trying to bombard 1 hp off of everything so that they leave and heal until they finally stack up nicely for us.

I didn't get a chance to play last night, I got home too late, will play tonight and see what can be done.
The Dylan Thomas quote, sesn, has inspired me.
If (and that's only If) we are going down, I am taking some ai biatches with us. I'll try to settle across to our ne coast so we can setup an ai killing field. I may not get time and romeo may have to continue as we may need to push the french border back a bit as there will still be mt's on our front if we just settle directly ne.

Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris! :aargh:

Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris! :aargh:

:lol: Nice!

Care to translate the one in the title of that post though?

Lift up your hearts, anger is a brief madness

(couldn't decide on which to subject with so decided to go both)

Is that a quote, and if so, who?

was two separate quotes;
sursum corda is from catholic church somewhere I think.
Ira furor brevis est is from Quintus Horatius Flaccus' (Horace) Epistles

edit: ira furor brevis est I first came across in an Asterix comic :)

Ah, I thought the first one must be medieval... But I never really read much Horace, so I missed the second.

Interesting!

As for Asterix, i think I find them funnier now than I did when I was a child - awesome stuff, especially when Caesar appears :lol:

I wasn't even aware there WAS a comic named Asterix. Must be a foreign thing

Did you guys know TF installed that new tag? :D

What tag??

And shame on you for not knowing Asterix! You know, they've even been translated into Latin... Not sure how many of the Latin puns work in those versions... :hmm:

Ok, nem, who's your favourite character-with-a-silly-name in the comics?

Mine is the British chieftain, Mykingdomforanos!

hmm, I don't know that I can remember them that well, I haven't read one in ages. I struggling to remember the big guys name. :-)

Hey! i read the comics here, it's obviously just not cool enough to be printed in Bawstohn. :cool:

as for the tag, didn't you see the green font, issued by the [ delurk] [ /delurk] tags?

Oh that's cool :) Excellent tag, indeed!

@Nem, it's Obelix ;)

preturn
v.horse out of cumae heads s to finish aztec v.sword (wins 4/4)
v.legion at brundisium vs bab v.longbow1/4, wins 4/4
e.legion at aesonesium vs v.longbow1/3, wins 5/5
e.legion at gonzo vs bab r.pike1/3, wins 5/5
v.legion at syracuse vs american v.knight1/4, wins 4/4
switch veii to settler

IBT
didn't have pen and paper ready, we lost a legion up north, retreated 2 knights and killed a bab sword
3 greek archers appear on border at lunacantorium

760AD (1)
cumae riots :-( forgot to adjust pop after stealing their horse for a bit, he'll be back this turn
lunacantorium cat->legion
Palmyra founded -> court
v.legion out of syracuse vs russian v.knight2/4, promotes 2/5
v.legion at neocal vs english v.longbow3/4, wins 3/4

IBT
we lost 1 v.legion, others lost about 3 knights around syracuse attacking the other v.legion on the hill there, he promoted.

770AD (2)
lugdunum cat->legion
cumae legion->legion
neocal legion->legion
neapolis legion-legion
rome legion->legion
e.legion2/5 vs v.longbow1/4 west of brun on desert wins
slayer army vs v.pike3/4 on hill heading in on pillage mission, wins losing 1hp
2 v.legion at luna vs 2 r.archers on forrest, both win 1/4 and then 3/4
move v.legion from veii to gonzo, will replace next turn and happy is fine in veii. (english knights coming to gonzo)
v.legion out of syracuse vs german v.knight2/4, wins 3/4 (bit risky but this was the safest knight i could kill, the others I don't want to risk as they have healthy knights behind them)
(hmm, 45 minutes play time so far, doesn't look like much in the log)

IBT
lost 2 legions only killed 1 knight (american)

780AD (3)
byzantium cat->legion
brundisium cat->legion
antium legion->worker
pompeii legion->legion
v.legion on his was to Aeson vs r.spear in pilaging position, wins 1/4
v.legion at syracuse vs v.knight1/4, promotes 4/5
v.legion vs american v.pike settler pair at ravenna, wins 2/4 (disband slaves)
e.legion vs r.pike2/3 on road to Neocal, wins 1/5
army at neocal vs v.knight4/4, wins losing 2hp
v.legion out of neocal to protect e.legion1/5

IBT
lost v.legion on his way to syracuse on hill. (retreated first v.knight, second got him but now 2/4)
russians want to talk, I ignore
v.legion at neocal dies but saves e.legion1/5 (v.knight who attacked him promotes and flees 3/5)
french are now building shakespeare's

790AD (4)
rome legion->legion
veii settler->settler
v.legion out of bruns retreats american knight, will continue to syracuse
v.legion out of bruns kills american knight, promotes 4/5
army at neocal retreats v.knight, losing 3hp (down to 12)

IBT
lots of enemy movements

800AD (5)
Antium worker->legion
cumae legion->legion
ravenna legion->legion
caesaraugusta walls->cat? (change if you like romeo)
spear at athens pillages incense

IBT
damn english knights kill a legion on its way to neocal (1 retreat, 1 win3/4)
aztecs drop a sword at pisae
neap starves due to enemy infestations

810AD(6)
e.legion kills greek archer at luna
grr, lose v.legion trying to kill knight1/4, the knight promotes 2/5 (on our road to neocal)
retreat e.knight to an unimproved square (something at least)
damn, that was pisae's food square
shuffle some pops to stop starvation at pisae

IBT
german knights that I expected to attack aeson move in on antium
aztec sword at pisae moves and starves pisae (heheh, I just can't win :-)
japan are building shakespeares
french 2 musket and 2 longbow move to hill at neapolis

820AD (7)
gonzo legion->legion
pisae cat->legion
aeson cat->legion
send a legion from brunds to antium
upgrade spear at brunds
upgrade pike at neapolis
send legion from veii to neapolis
send cat from aeson to neap
seige of svestapol (russian scrap town to se) razes city
kill aztec sword of +1 starvation with v.legion travelling to neocal
army kills r.knight
e.legion kills e.knight and generates GL Ocatvian
bombard r.longbow for another hp but leave him alone (he has 2 knights and a longbow behind him)
army at syracuse retreats v.knight

IBT
room mate asking what I want for dinner so I miss the siege of neapolis (1 pike at 1/4, legion and other pike full health no longbow left outside)
indians are building smiths
I missed japan landing a spear and warrior between neocal and pisae too

830AD (8)
Rome legion->legion
cumae legion->legion
army comes out of neocal to retreat v.knight seiging gonzo
v.legion kills r.longbow1/3 @ gonzo and promotes 4/5
v.legion @ ravenna kills 2/3 pike settler pair (workers disbanded)
crap, sorry, just noticed my scientist had starved a few turns back at neapolis (I think he was there)

IBT
english caravels coming down the west coast
we kill a knight at syracuse
ai settler pairs all over the place in the east

840AD (9)
veii settler->legion
pompeii legion->legion
ravenna legion->legion
lugdunum legion->legion
luna legion->legion
switch rome to market
v.legion that killed settler pair at ravenna last round kills another at rome (workers disbanded)
kill japanese spear and warrior with legions travelling to the front
army at syracuse to desert to kill v.knight1/4
2 legions at ravenna kill french pike, spear, settler (workers disbanded)

IBT
german knights come from everywhere at syracuse
english cavalry attacks syracuse and retreats

850AD (10)
antium legion->legion
neapolis legion->legion
neocal legion->legion
army attacks and kills english cav
shuffle units to give all cities under threat 1 more unit than attackers

I learned by my second turn that sitting in our cities and defending is a much better option against knights. The only time i left from then on was to kill 'safe' units. (units on tiles with no counterattacks in range)
I didn't really get much done, I was trying to get units up to syracuse but the english were making a fairly good assault on our western cities so I decided to reinforce them slightly. (losing a couple of units travelling to neocal)
we do have a settler that made it as far as brundisium and sesn's slayers is currently holding the weak point in our road to syracuse (which I had to rebuild)
The workers from that effort are in antium(I was expecting pillage from the seige but the ai was too blood thirsty)
I haven't build an army with the GL yet, decided it was only 2 turns till the end of my set so would leave him for discussion before using.
I lost us a few turns on invention when my scientist starved and I didn't notice due to the stress of two inner cities being under seige. :(


(I think i'm going to start up a chieftan game now with the enemys from this game, just for a bit of payback)

:lol:


edit: >>> SAVE <<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD0850_01.SAV)

edit2:
Firaxis score: 651
Jason score: 318

Yes, please please keep the city scientist employed. I think sometimes the best cities for that are coastal 2 pop cities that don't grow for lack of a harbor. That way the scientist never disappears. Another GL is nice, army would be the way to go again. We need to check our city count vs. armies in the field. May need some new cities soon so we don't have a future leader unable to build. I see that the Greek settler pair is back again trying to settle the same ruins. Alex can still do no better than hoplites.

Il get to this on Saturday. I'll probably choose a new army and let the Greeks have it.

Due to traffic congestion related to the Sturgis Rally, RL is taking longer. Prolly get to this on Sunday now. Sturgis is a huge deal around here. There are close to 3 times the normal number of people in our fair city.

Ill need a swap guys. Details on reasoning shortly. Thanks a bunch.

M60 can you take it?

Romeo, will you be able to grab it in the next day or two, or should we just skip you this round?

I can, but don't know that I'll get to it tonight.

No sweat, we have a minimum of six weeks from now to finish. ;)

I should be good By Wed

I should be good By Wed

I'm inclined to say that we'll just skip you for the round, but it will depend on Tal's availability. If he can't get to it by then, we'll wait for you.

Details on reasoning shortly.

Normally I don't question a skip/swap request, but since you offered, now I'm curious....

Here's a partial, I need to call it a night @ 12:30AM local time.

Pre-turn: Count 19 cities and towns in our empire, so we need one more to make it 20 and therefore 5-army eligible. Enemy is all over the east, but it’s time to settle this one way or another. I’m going to get to Lyons or all but end this for us. Form the army with Octavian, that gives us 4 now. One will hold the west, the other 3 are going on the offensive. Cat a 3 unit English stack by Gonzo to kick things off. Elite legion kills red musket. Vet legion kills reg longbow, promotes. Vet horse promotes, killing reg Fr longbow by Antium. Fill reg spear with army.

IBT- American vet knight skewers himself on an Antium pike. Iroquois want to talk. They want 80 gold for peace. How about you just die? English kill an elite legion I forted on a hill with a vet knight, he redlines. 2 russian knights redlined at Brundesium. Rome riots as I pulled the garrison. English land a knight at Cumae.

Turn 1 (860AD) Kill the Cumae knight with a couple legions. Kill the redlined Eng knight at Gonzo with elite legion. Kill another reg English knight at Gonzo with the army after redlining with cats. Vet legion promotes, kill both red Russian knight at Brundesium. Cat 2 Bab knights red at Syracuse. Kill both.

IBT- Pike fends off vet American knight @ Neapolis. Elite legion does the same against a Bab knight near Syracuse. Russian red knight moves off to heal. Two English cavalry coming in at Norwich.

Turn 2 (870AD) Kill the Bab knight with vet legion. Kill the red Russian one. And the American one. And an English elite knight at Gonzo. And an American reg pike. Get the urge to press our luck and try elite* legion vs reg Eng cav, only takes 1 hp off him and we die.

IBT- Lose another legion to a cav who promotes to elite, he loses a reg cav and LB attacking Gonzo. Lugdunum riots. Sorry, I’m getting sloppy. The autobahn has been reopened in the east.

Turn 3 (880AD) Cat/Redline the Eng elite cav, and kill him with an elite legion. Lose an elite legion, and another is redlined killing Bab vet pike on the hill at Gonzo. He has a cav nearby, so I move a healthy vet pike to cover. Army kills a red Bab knight at Syracuse. Elite legion kills reg Greek archer at Sparta.

IBT- American knight kills legion by Syracuse, we seem to just be trading tit for tat.

Turn 4 (890AD) Kill that pokey Greek settler pair. Cats redline reg English cav at Norwich, kill it with a vet legion. Shell Norwich to no effect. Cat another one at Gonzo and kill it with elite legion. Kill a reg LB with vet legion. Trade a vet legion for vet German pike @ Aeson. Kill reg French LB between Lyons and Avignon. Redline 3 American knights with cats west of Syracuse. As good a kill zone as there is at the moment. Antium and Brundesium are now single defender as we’re fully committed to this offensive.

IBT- Lose two legions at Norwich, but our replacements more than make up for it.

Turn 5 (900AD) Lose a vet legion as cats go 0/3 against reg spear in Munich, south of Athens. 4/5 legion kills him, town gone, +5 gold. Jerusalem founded, 2 tiles s/w of Lyons. Lose a reg legion vs red French musket, he promotes. Elite legion kills reg longbow at Norwich. Take a gamble and 11hp army @ Norwich ve 3hp vet pike, kill him, but spear now shows. Kill reg Eng LB at Reading.

IBT- Lose a legion to Eng cav @ Norwich, then forts in the town. He loses a cav attacking Brundesium.

Turn 6 (910 AD) Caesarea founded. Kill spear @ Norwich, cav w/2hp left. Troop movements.

IBT- IBT- Aztec finish Smith’s. Ouch. Lose a pike.

Turn 7 (920AD) Attack Lyons with army and elite legion, kill 2 reg spears, town goes and 6 workers crucified. :goodjob: On order of the emperor, our 6hp army attacks forted cav at Norwich. Kills it, but we’re down to 1hp. Vet legion kills vet Bab knight.

Nice turns. I like your style. Aggressive all the way. Our economy should be doing better.
The reason for the swap. My Brother and Dad came out to visit. My Girlfriend and my family spent a lot of time hanging out, just doing fun things. The Sturgis Motorcycle rally just started and ensures that nobody goes anywhere quickly. I got cast on Thursday in a play that opens on Monday, where I am going to propose during the curtain call. I play the male lead and my gal plays the female lead. These have all stacked to make it until Wed as my playtime decreases. Plus the Bulgars MA Mod and Scoutsouts training game took any semblance of free time.
Whee. Plus my mind isn't focused on civ, as my last 2 turn sets in SG's have been adequate but not the level we need right now.

Hmm. I like your style. Romantic proposal, having fun with the fam, and preferring a skip to below standard gameplay.

Hope everything goes well tomorrow!

dude, what if she cries before you go on stage. (Not cause she's sad but happy at the proposal)

and good luck.
I hope the rng gods smile upon her decision. :joke:

The proposal is right after the play. I think M60 is having an awesome turnset here, and I will lurk and post at work all day.
2 towns founded, many enemies razed, and an assualt towards the English.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD0950_01.SAV

Turn 7 (920AD) continued. Elite legion kills vet Greek Archer. Vet legion kills Bab settler pair. 2 workers disbanded. Cat and kill an American reg pike. Kill red Russian knight. Lose a vet legion to red English cav. Vet legion kills reg American knight.

IBT- We lose a 2hp vet pike to reg Bab knight, he’s redlined. Another Bab knight kills a vet legion.

Turn 8 (930AD) Kill the red Bab knight. Attack 2 reg spears with 2 legions at Reading. Win both, raze Reading and collect 228 gold. Call up Liz to get her bank account info. 6167 in the treasury. :eek: :eek: :eek: Check everyone elses balance: Jap:134 Grc: 83 Azt:61 Amr:27 Frn: 20 Rus:19 Iro:12 Ger:0 Ind:0 Bab:0.

So, tonight we should beat ourselves with a wooden spoon. How could we NOT HAVE CHECKED THIS??? :aargh: We don’t need to money to research, England will provide all the cash we need if we raze her cities!! Any bets on that was the Barbarian secret? OK, M.B. how much was in the Goody Huts, 2000…3000?

General Order #1 is now issued to the army. Do NOT kill English settler pairs! LET them settle, THEN raze. Brighton is still in the south, so there’s opportunity for another bank heist. Hurry legion in Pisae for 32g, in Gonzo for 72, in Aeson for 32g, in Brundesium for 40, in Byzantium for 56.

IBT- Not a single AI attack.

Turn 9 (940AD) Our 1hp army makes it back alive to Gonzo. Kill French reg spear by Rome.

IBT- Defending legion & pike vs 2 Eng cav, trade cav for pike. Japan finishes Magellan. Germans found Nurenburg.

Turn 10 (950AD) We found Tarentum. The southern portion of the AI continent is now cut off from the north. Army kills reg pike at Avignon. Besancon in the south has 2 reg spears, killed by 2 legions, destroyed for 2 gold. Cat and kill a vet French LB, red another one. Score: 694

Post turn: We have a 1/18 army in Gonzo that needs time to heal before rolling out for Norwich again. This time there is a little extra support there, 9 legions and 8 cats. In the south, we’re gradually converging on Brighton. There are 6 workers just outside of town that can accelerate road building to quickly help us settle the remaining area. Started some temples to start pushing out our borders a tad so the enemy can’t heal quite so close to us. Remember for the rest of the game, Razed English cities = $$$$$$$$$ :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM_Sesn_950AD.JPG

Nice set M60.

You're right, we should have checked the treasury info. Interesting that she has so much. I can only figure she was the one to discover MT, and sold it all around.

I doubt MB would have made that the puzzle. It would have made things for the non-variant teams that much easier compared to variant.

Edit: so how many units do you have available for the English? Is she in a cash rush govt?

In looking over the saves, that likely is the case. Here is her gold count:

750AD- 741
850AD- 3800
910AD- 5755
920AD- 5947
930AD- 6395

So apparently this started during Romeo's set, or just before.

Well, the cash is there, we should get it before she wastes it all on stuff like more cavalry ;)

M60, I love you! ;-)
Good work dude.

Roster:
Tal - UP
Sesn - On deck
Nem
Romeo
M60 - Found the pot of gold :)

Note - If Tal can not get to this tomorrow for whatever reason, then we'll slip Romeo back in if he wants it. Otherwise, the roster will stand.

BTW - Don't expect to hear from Romeo tonight, I imagine he'll be .... busy ;) , but I'm interested to know how things went.

Hey guys. She said Yes. I am happy. I will be able to play tomorrow as the fiancee and her friends have a gals night to plan the wedding. I have to be availible, but across town for 5 hours. If that isn't a call to play some civ, I don't know what is.
Brilliant job on the play M60. It looks like your plan came through anyway. I concur that all troops throw themselves at the English full tilt. How is the research going??
Since England is the only one with cavs, should we really try to lay the hammer? Is England the only cavs people? I know russia's UU is Cav based, England and America's UU don't matter, the Greeks is annoying, and the Babylonian is outdated. This looks really good now. We should honestly carry the battle to them, and I forsee victory.

[party] Congratulations! [party]

OK Romeo, if you can play tomorrow, then do your worst. :)

Roster:

Romeo - UP
Tal - On deck
Sesn
Nem
M60 - Still found the pot of gold

I don't think Liz is the only one with cavs, I think she researched it first and then sold it around.

Congratulations from the lurkers as well, Romeo!

I must say you're doing pretty good to overcome your troubles here.. Cavs on the home continent? Ouch!

Congrats, Romeo!! Excellent stuff!

By the way, guys, my life/time is imploding at the moment with several no-notice trips all strung together and without even forum access, so I've already had to temporarily quit one SG. (@Sesn, M60 - please play my current set of Confederate turns, and I'll try to fit a set in towards the end of the week - I'll try to keep that one going too.)

As for this game, I'll try my damnedest to get to it after Romeo is done. We're doing a remarkable job, considering!

Congratulations romeo! :D

Yes, congratulations indeed, Romeo. :clap:

England is the only one I've seen with cav so far. The fact that no one attacked on IBT 8/9 has me wondering if the AI has not started warring among itself. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part. This certainly was the first set of turns I had fun with this game. :)

Got it now. Now I have Mapstat and can notice minor things like uber cash.

IHT: Familiarising and stratagising. Going to work on our core, settling our backside, and taking some English Booty. (does that sound wrong?)
IBT: Aztecs want us to pay for peace. Going through the motions, I found out that only the English have horses and peter. Flawlessly RL an English Cav. Japs build Shakes, go industrial
Turn 1: Use the Senate to flatten Avignon. We get 3 gold. Germans and English are also industrial. Win half a dozen battles
IBT: Kill 2 English cavs, redline a german knight, redline a French LB, but lose a legion.
Turn 2: Whack 2 spears at brighton for 1 legion. An LB shows on top, but I wait, as next turn I have more thunder. Advance on Norwich
IBT: Aztecs and english start Newtons. Kill 1 english cav, see first German cav. I guess they got peter recently. Jerusalem looks like it will fall.
Turn 3: Raze Brighton, kill 2 slaves, and get a pult back after an elite legion dies to a reg LB. Raze Norwich, kill a slave. Get 11 gold. The Germans now have 6000+ gp while the English have 300. Cleanup a lot of English units around former Norwich. Found Nicodema Germany has rifles. Pop an MGL on an English Settler Pair.

Pause here as we find out what we want. FP in Syracuse? FP down by Athens? Army?
In quick hindsight, army and play on. We will get more of these guys.

IHT: Familiarising and stratagising. Going to work on our core, settling our backside, and taking some English Booty. (does that sound wrong?)
IBT: Aztecs want us to pay for peace. Going through the motions, I found out that only the English have horses and peter. Flawlessly RL an English Cav. Japs build Shakes, go industrial
Turn 1: Use the Senate to flatten Avignon. We get 3 gold. Germans and English are also industrial. Win half a dozen battles
IBT: Kill 2 English cavs, redline a german knight, redline a French LB, but lose a legion.
Turn 2: Whack 2 spears at brighton for 1 legion. An LB shows on top, but I wait, as next turn I have more thunder. Advance on Norwich
IBT: Aztecs and english start Newtons. Kill 1 english cav, see first German cav. I guess they got peter recently. Jerusalem looks like it will fall.
Turn 3: Raze Brighton, kill 2 slaves, and get a pult back after an elite legion dies to a reg LB. Raze Norwich, kill a slave. Get 11 gold. The Germans now have 6000+ gp while the English have 300. Cleanup a lot of English units around former Norwich. Found Nicodema Germany has rifles. Pop an MGL on an English Settler Pair.

Pause here as we find out what we want. FP in Syracuse? FP down by Athens? Army?
IBT: Kill 2 english cavs Rl a third and lose 1 legion to a fourth. Guess I angered them. Lose a legion to a german cav, kill an american knight RL 3 American knights.
Turn 4: Found Selucia in the Hills near England. Move our pults towards Jerusalem, which is the new hot spot.
IBT: English Build Newtons. Babs burn Tarentum. German cav kills 8 Hp army on a mountain. Doh India lands troops.
Turn 5: Dispatch 1 Indian warrior and 2 archers. Misclick. Reload. Kill off our glorious elite * horse. Athens is ready to be assualted, many moves are made.
IBT: Kill 2 American knights, and an English cav.
Turn 6: Build Artaxa, pults go 0-4 at Athens.
IBT: English cavs kill 3 legions, babs are running knights deep into our territory.
Turn 7: Lose 2 legions at Athens kill 3 hoplites and 1 archer, leaving 1 1hp Hoplite left. Rush Temple in Jerusalem.
IBT: Kill 2 American Knights 4 German cavs kill an army. arrgh. Kill some English cavs, lose a couple of legions.
Turn 8: Rush a rax in Jerusalem. Pray we can hold. 14 straight pult misses. We lose a legion but we raze Athens. We lose a legion but raze Coventry, denying the English spices. We are now in the English core. Build Aurelinem.
IBT: Kill 2 english cavs. Lose a legion to an english cav. Lose a legion to a bab knight. Germans are moving cavs towards/through Greece.
Turn 9: Cill misc units, trying to get a handoff force ready.
IBT: Lose an exposed 1 hp legion. lose a 4/4 legion defending across a river. Retreat a couple of things.
Turn 10: I have snuck in a Library at Rome. It is built. Trying to do some cleanup around here. England has the Gold again. Using Mapstat, we are the largest. Germany and Babylon are small but are really pestering us. England is the biggest enemy we see on a regular basis. I will hand off here with a small assualt force near Britain, a smattering of stuff around Neopolis and a kind of strung out army. Jerusalem has 2 armies in it. We get Invention in 1.
Things will be dicey for a few turns, as I might have over extended, but should quickly come back under control.

Firaxis Score 744
Jason Score 364
No Spoon yet.

Looks good Romeo. Maybe there's actually some hope for us yet.

Roster
Tal - UP?
Sesn - On deck
Nem
Romeo
M60

I'll give Tal a bit of time to see if he can get to it, or at least tell us otherwise.

I should have time at the weekend, so I suggest Sesn and I swap places in the roster for this rotation, if that's ok with everybody. That will give me a chance to have a more focussed read of the logs - looks like things are improving!

it's all fine with me.

No problem Tal, I'd prefer to keep everyone involved rasther than starting a bunch of skips.

I'll try to get to this tonight, but I won't make any promises, as I have a date with Isabella in the old South.

My apologies team.

My date with Isabella went quite a bit later than expected (railroading :rolleyes: ), so I can't grab this until Sat (hopefully).

Tal, if you have time before I post a "got it", then just post and play.

IHT – Mostly set the units for an interturn attack. Lose a legion retreating a knight. Lose a legion attacking an archer on a mountain.

IT – Trade a legion for a cav. The legion we lost was elite though. Invention comes in. Start gumpowder at 30%, due in 19 at –2gpt.

1060 ad (1) – We lose a vet legion razing Rouen. Kill a vet knight with an army.

IT – Syracuse comes under heavy cav assult. We have an elite and a vet there. The elite dies pretty quickly. The vet kills two cavs, and retreats two more. :confused: The city holds, barely.

1070 ad (2) – Hippo Regius founded. Shuffling troops to try to get a decent garrison in the frontline cities. The action will all be at Brundisium this turn. Move some units out towards Paris.

IT – All our cities hold, but we lose three legions in various places.

1080 ad (3) – See an English rifle. :rolleyes: Kill the rifle and a couple random cavs.

IT – Lose three legions, two flawlessly, and an elite pike. England has almost 8k in gold. However, they found Exeter two tiles away from an army/cat stack. 6 German cavs appear next to Ravenna. Aztecs drop two swords next to Cumae.

1090 ad (4) – Whack a Greek settler pair. Lose a legion killing the Aztec swords, but also promote a legion in the process. I can’t get any more units to Ravenna or Lunacantorium, which is also threatened by the cavs. If we lose either city, our soft underbelly will be exposed.

IT – Two of the cavs are distracted by a legion sent to reinforce. We lose one of the defenders in Ravenna, but the other two inexplicably hold. Elsewhere, a legion retreats a vet knight flawlessly. Then we lose an elite legion in Syracuse.

1100 ad (5) – Whack an American settler pair. Cats go 0fer at Exeter. The only hit at Paris destroys the forum. Legion wins and promotes vs musket.

IT – Three valiant legions in Syracuse require 9 cavs to give up the city. 8 gold and 8 cats lost. Just call me the catapult killer. :(

1110 ad (6) – Cats again go a combined 0fer at Exeter and Paris. Will withdraw Paris units, attack Exeter anyhow. Army kills reg rifle, another one shows. Some random skirmished that go mostly our way.

IT – Germans actually attack (and win) with a rl cav. I really thought the 2/4 legion was safe…

1120 ad (7) – English just launched a settler pair from Exeter. Heading down our western coast. Mapstat say England’s gold has declined for the fourth consecutive turn. Not good, since no one else’s gold went up. I send all spare units to the front line cities of Aesonisium, Brundisium, Antium, and Neapolis.

IT – Neapolis somehow holds against a mix of knights and cavs. The poor fellows in Brundisium suffer a different fate, though they fight just as valiantly. :(

1130 ad (8) – I abandon Jerusalem, as I need the army back in the core. Unfortunately, the unit doesn’t warp home like I expected. I have to up luxury and drop science, as I am pulling our garrisons from non frontline cities. I also rush legions in many cities.

IT – We are getting swamped by cavs. They hit our cities, and they hit reinforcements en route. The cities still stand, though I’m not sure how. The two legions they hit on the roads are not so lucky. Aztecs begin US. :wow:

1140 ad (9) – in a telling sign, our stranded army does a whole 2 points of damage against a knight. It wasn’t going to be a whole lot of help up there anyhow.

IT – For the second straight turn, no cities are taken. [party]

1150 ad (10) – I don’t yet have any units that are in position for counterattacks. For reasons that I myself am not sure of, I found the town of Nicopolis to the SE. More shuffling and reinforcements.

And thus this set ends. Not much to point out for you, Tal. There is a stack of units at Syracuse that can attack next turn. The units I pulled from outer towns should buy you some time. There is a mini stack of units that were out on Greek patrol that are currently near Rome.


>>>SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD1150_01.SAV)

Roster (I think):

Tal - UP
Nem - On deck
Romeo
M60
Sesn

:bump:

Is anybody still here? I know things don't look good, but we still have to finish.

Since Tal has not posted, I'm gonna issue a skip for him.

Nem - UP!
Romeo - On Deck
M60
Tal
Sesn

Cool, I'm at work currently will play tonight. Tal if you can get to this before I post an actual 'got it', post and let me know and i'll wait.

:bump:

Anything doing , Nem?

hey dude, I didn't get to this last night, worked back late. was going to be back late tonight but I'm leaving shortly to go to dinner. will play when I get home and post then.

What's cooking, Nem?

preturn
things look scary

IBT
Lose 2 legions in Aeson, 1 to knight, 1 to cav
Lose 1 legion in Antium to cav
American knights heading for our iron, bab spear also heading for iron
Japan land cav behind Seleucia

1160AD (1)
lose 2 legions red lining 2 cavs at Neapolis, third legion finishes 1 of the cavs
and in the end I decided to finish the second cav with a 3/4 legion who remains 3/4 just outside now
kill one of the american knights heading for our iron and retreat the other
finish him with an e.legion from ravenna
fortify an e.legion on our iron to block bab spear
I think our road team just finished the road to our new incense
sci30%, lux10%, +7gpt, 184g, GP 13t
2 bombards fail on Japanese cav and I lose a legion trying to kill him, cav2/4

IBT
japanese cav2/4 kills our legion4/4 that was on it's way to seleucia to reinforce
english cav4/4 captures Seleucia and 2 of our cats
we lose another 2 legion over in our core but only after retreating a cav each
the legion outside of Aeson kills a knight and retreats a cav
Japanese drop off horse, samurai and 2 cavs (near seleucia)
English drop off cav at Cumae

1170AD (2)
rome legion->legion
Veii library->legion
neapolis legion->legion
e.legion out of lugdunum kills english cav
Londinium founded on hill (decided against coast as given our current situation we're not going to be able to reinforce it)
move a v.legion from aeson to gonzo

IBT
our pike at gonzo is killed by japanese cav
the legion fends off the samurai but is killed by the horse, we lose gonzo
a bab cav2/3 loses to a 3/4 legion in the field and promotes him
the legion then redlines a bab knight and then an english cav, now 3/5

1180AD (3)
Hispalis legion->legion
Pompeii legion->legion
the 3/5 legion of doom finishes the redlined cav
I can't get a second legion to neocal (probably next target for the japanese) so I buy one for 56g (I think the japanese cav's will heal first)

IBT
we lose a legion in veii to japanese cav3/4 (now 1/4)
we lose a legion flawlessly in the Antium to an english cav

1190AD (4)
Cumae legion->legion
Ravenna legion->legion
Lugdunum legion->legion
Byzantium legion->legion
Neocaledonium legion->legion
sci30%, lux20%, +0gpt, 168g, gunpowder stays 9t (was going to have to employ ent's in 4 cities this turn for some reason)

IBT
our solo legion at luna retreats 2 american knights
three bab cavs manage to burn Neapolis (all now 1/4)
3 or 4 english cav's retreat at Antium to our two legion (both have now promoted)
germans drop off a longbow at cumae

1200AD (5)
Rome legion->legion
veii legion->legion
antium legion->legion
luna legion->legion
kill a 2/4 japanese cav that wsa heading for our workers
kill an english cav1/4 on the way to antium
kill the german longbow with legion from byzan (build last turn, on his way to the front)
lux back to 10% as we were running at a loss after losing Neapolis, employ a few ent's

IBT
lose a legion at neocal
lots of bab cavs in the old neapolis area
more bab cavs at ravenna
units at luna (now 2 legions) kill 2 american knights and retreat a third
aztecs drop off longbow, sword and cav at cumae

1210AD (6)
lose 2 legions trying to kill the aztec units, now only a 1/4 sword left
hmm, antium could be in trouble this turn, the stranded army is nearly back there but I think those bab cavs will choose it as their next target
4 legions there, but 4 healthy cavs and 2 down only 1 hp in the area

IBT
grr, lose another legion on it's way to reinforce neocal
the boys in east rome once again prove they're made of tough stuff as we retreat 2 german cavs and lose a legion to the third
1 bab cav attacks antium and dies, the rest move out of our land to the north

1220AD (7)
rome legion->legion
pompeii legion->legion
legion out of pompeii retreats english cav (and will try make it to neo)
kill aztec sword
switch veii to settler

IBT
english 1/4 cav captures our workers se of pisae (I didn't notice he was in range)

1230AD (8)
Pisae legion->legion
veii settler->legion
legion kills 1/4cav
Hmm, I wanted to rebuild Neapolis but the english and bab cavs are back, i'll bombard them and wait

IBT
after the bombards there wasn't a bab cav left in range of rome with more than 2 hp, 2 of them attacked rome and killed a pike but failed to kill the remaining legion
Germans are building Universal Sufferage

1240AD (9)
rome legion->legion
lugdunum legion->legion

IBT
nothing much, a few injured cav retreat more replace them

1250AD (10)
Neocal legion->legion
None of the cat's have moved (except the 1 in veii, it just arrived)


Firaxis: 851
Jason: 416

well unfortunately I lost 3 cities, I have a settler in veii waiting to refound Neapolis.
how we managed to not lose a city in the east is beyond me, the ai got a pretty harsh deal from the rng over there.
we have gunpowder if 4t





>>> SAVE <<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD1250_01.SAV)

Sorry that took me so long, things have been crazy at work and i've been putting in some pretty long days. I've alse been up in three SG's at once. The others I got to first as my turn set's came up in a builder phase so they were quick and easy to play before going to bed. I actually got home at a reasonable time tonight so got stuck straight into this one. (2 1/2 hours later :-) I'm done. I was preparing a gathering of troops in ant but a few of them got stripped away to reinforce our nw border. Next player can draw them back if they feel safe but I'd probably recomment replacing them as new units come in. (if those units aren't required elsewhere)

Turns look pretty good, all things considered. The armies seem to be our only effective defenders, but the ai got shafted several times on my turns too. The rng trying to even itself out?

Now the question is: Will we have a source of salt? If so, then we may be able to claw our way back into this thing. We are admittedly hanging by a thread right now.

Roster:
Romeo - UP
M60 - On Deck
Tal - MIA
Sesn
Nem

Can I swap with M60 again. I have wedding planning until sat, except for when I said I would pick up the Sid Napoleon game. That and I trust M60 to lead us to glory, while I just spawn MGL's.

Yes, but I use those MGLs to lead us to glory. :D

I haven't had one yet!

Will try and get it in tonight.

To give the team a status, it's 1270AD, and essentially our defenses have collapsed under the weight of too many cavalry. I'll play it through of course, but Romeo will not have much left to defend when I'm done. I'm trying to get an army back to Rome, but it may fall in the next couple turns. Sorry guys, no rabbits to pull out of the hat this time.

No worries, I was wondering if I'd even see this again. Just fight till the end!! (I know you will anyhow :) )

Pre-turn @ 1250AD: With the door again open in the east, there’s no real hope of salvaging this. The Americans and German cav and knights are just roaring down the autobahn, and we’ll just be swamped shortly. In comparing the 1150 and 1250AD saves, our military can’t keep up with the losses we are sustaining. We went from 101 units to 83, and our income has dropped from 162 to 148. But rather than follow an intelligent path and defend the cities to the end, I will of course attack the enemy and take the consequences. That said…

Cats 2/4, vet legion kills reg red Russian pike clean, promotes.
Cats 3/3, vet legion kills vet red Bab cav, lose hp
Elite legion kills vet red Bab cav, lose hp
Cats 3/5 Vet legion kills vet red US cav clean
Cats 3/3 Elite legion kills vet red Bab cav clean
Elite legion kills vet red Bab cav, lose hp
Elite legion kills vet red Bab cav clean
Vet legion kills vet red German cav, lose 2hp, promotes
Army attacks vet Eng cav, redlines him, he retreats
Lose elite legion knock 1hp off Eng cav
Lose 2 more legions @ Ravenna trying to drive off German knight
Elite legion kills reg Greek hop, lose hp (Note: “Bab” may be “Germ” in some cases. No matter, they’re all bad guys)
Convert clowns to taxmen in several cities. We are not managing towns well if this is going on. :confused:
Up sci in 60%, Gunpowder in 2.

IBT- Lose 3 more legions around Luncatorium and Brundesium. Get some troop replacements.

Turn 1 (1255AD)
Elite legion kills Eng red cav
Cats 3 / 4 vs vet Bab cav, elite legion kills same
Cat 1hp off Germ vet LB, elite legion kills same
Cats redline vet Rus pike, elite legion dies clean vs same
Same thing happens to an elite 4/5 legion, he promotes
Vet legion kills 2/3 US musket clean, promotes

IBT Aesonesium falls under a pile of Bab, English cav
Ravenna is lost to the French with the help of American and German knights and cav

Turn 2 (1260AD)
Gonzomonium is recaptured from Japanese vet cav and horse with Army and 2 legions.
Vet legion kills red Eng cav @ Gonzo, lose 2hp.
I get Aesonium back, along with 323 gold using Army, then legion.
Kill redline Eng cav by Gonzo
Hurry production in several places to spend down the cash Liz was kind enough to donate to our cause.
Suicide use of elite lgion to try to capture Ravenna back vs 3hp dug in musket. Lose clean.

IBT-German cav burn Aesonium to the ground.
Germans capture Antium

Turn 3 (1265AD)

Slayers kill reg French cav, but are down to 8hp.
Kill reg Bab LB by Palmyra
Need forces in Rome
2 saltpeter in our area, but neither roaded, nor likely they ever will be. :(

IBT

Cav keep a coming, killing legions and capturing our cats

Turn 4 (1270AD)

Move legions to defend Rome.
Vet legion kills red Germ cav
Slayers kill a reg English LB
Vet longbow retreats 2hp cav, and redlines him
4 legions and 2 cats defend Rome

IBT

Gonzo elite legion fights to the death against Jap cav, creating MGL . The Great Leader is killed in his diapers, as it was the sole defender. The town is burned.
Rome is under attack from German cav but holds. A legion in Luncatorium holds off 4 US knights, killing 2.
I let Lungdunum riot. Now I’m not managing well! :mad:

Turn 5 Miss 1275AD somewhere

Turn 6 (1280AD)

Caesar won’t go quietly. Move army to Rome, cut lose two legions from Rome that kill 2 red German cav by Antium.
Legion recaptures 4 cats from Germans and uses them to redline reg French musket.
Slayers to Veii.
Elite legion retreats Jap cav, recapture another cat of ours, send it back to Veii.

IBT

Luncantorium gets another US knight to its credit, but falls to another one.
More legion losses to the cav, and once again they have our cats.

Turn 7 (1285)

Take potshots and lose a legion trying to bump off Jap cav

IBT

English cav readlines trying to get at Neocal. AI movement into our core.

Turn 8 (1290)

Not much, just defending

IBT

Babs building US
France wants to talk, but I have no time to discuss their surrender. ;)
Hey look, the Greeks FINALLY get iron and build swords.

Turn 9 (1295)

Kill a Bab cav by Pompeii

IBT

Americans lose knight at Byzantium, it holds.
Americans cut our iron
Babylon wants to talk about surrender too. Talk to Emperor Romeo, dirt-bag!
We're defiant Xenophobes and proud of it! :lol:
English cav capture Neocaledonium.

Turn 10 (1300)

Legion out of Pisae kills red Jap Sam.
2 English cav killed by our gallant legions at Veii
Move 2 workers NE of Nicomedia to build an iron colony to reestablish a source.

Score: 888 and we’ve survived to the next player!

Post turn comments: 53 units remain in our army. Chemistry in 10 @ 0gpt. Guess the AI had to mobilize to make it a fair fight. AI is also doing the normal stupid stuff like pillaging useless tiles. Hope to see us fight off infantry in the near future. Wouldn’t that be a story? The AI isn’t paying much attention to our Southeast territory, not that I blame it. English are bored as even their Man-O-War fails to bombard anything.

And the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD1300_01.SAV)

What? Is that disdain from the AI?!?! Don't they know who we are? Oh, right......

Romeo is up. Can he survive long enough to give me the glorious indignity of losing?

Stay tuned!

:bump:

Romeo, will you be able to grab this at all? You implied over the weekend....

Well, after 4 days, I guess I can take a subtle hint.

Romeo does not want to grab this, so I'll take it now.

IHT - open up the save up and quite a sight meets me. Doesn’t look like it’ll take long now. Although we still have 17 cities, only six or so are viable. The rest are all the tundra/mountain towns. Units are every where. Not ours. We’re down to 2 armies. I count units from no less than nine civilizations either within our borders, or about to be.

What a fine mess we’ve gotten ourselves into, eh gents? :lol:

I’m going to put the over/under at ten turns. Personally, I think I might be able to beat it, but only because of the crappy terrain they’ll have to cross. Barring a miracle (or more accurately, a series of them), I don’t think I’ll be handing this mess off to anyone. As Larry the Cable Guy might say “git’er dun!”


Hit Enter.

Lincoln goes first. Two knights make quick work of Byzantium. Japan only manages to get a vet leg in the open. Monty launches an assault on Palmyra: vet legion defends and promotes against 4 LB’s. Redlines the sword before finally falling. Germany gets the next crack, and only manages to snag a vet legion in the carnage, and barely at that. I now see an interesting thing: a german cat exerts a zoc over a bab cav. :hmm: Babylon moves on Pisae: three cavs kill a leg and an elite pike. A french cav loses to an elite leg. Greece wins vs vet leg in Londinium.

1305 ad (1) - Rome riots due to the loss of two luxes. A few others want to. I bombard 4 times, 2 of them successful.

IT - Elite pike wins vs 2 US knights in Caesarea. Vet leg in wins vs 2 cavs, promoting during. I watch England use our cats to bombard the terrain. Caesarea falls to Fr cav.

1310 ad (2) - Rome leg->cat. Elite leg wins vs rl cav. Go 2 for 4 in potshots again.

IT - Things happened fast and furious in this interturn. We also lost no cities, so there were no pauses. :) I can say that we lost two or three units, three workers, and the Slayer army held off 4 cavs and a LB in Veii.

1315 ad (3) - Nico horse -> LB. Lugdunum legion -> LB. Horse wins and promotes vs 2/3 spear. 2 for 4 cats.

IT - Bab cav takes Hispalis, and a second takes the nearby workers.

1320 ad (4) - Rome cat -> cat. Veii LB -> cat. I build an iron colony, if only for a couple turns, change as many builds as I can to legs.

IT - It takes two cavs and a knight to kill the vet pike guarding Londinium. However, it only takes on knight to kill the elite leg in Cumae. Vet legion in Pompeii dies to a cav. It takes 3 more cavs to get the vet pike and take the city.

1325 ad (5) - Cats go 1 for 3.


IT - It takes a half dozen cavs of varying nations to take the two legs in Lugdunum.

1330 ad (6) - Rome cat -> cat. Cats go 2 for 4.

IT - Vet leg in Hippo Regius takes a knight and an LB before falling. Vet pike takes one cav out with him in Nicomedia.

1335 ad (7) - Veii cat -> spear. Caesaraugusta leg -> cat. Cats go 3 for 6.

IT - Strangely, the Jap cavs kill the horse defending our colony before attacking the elite spear in Aurelianorum, 2 tiles away. Either way, both are lost. 2 bab cavs make short work of the two legs in Caesaraugusta. 2 cavs kill the leg in Nicopolis.

1340 ad (8) - Rome cat -> spear. Artaxata spear -> spear. Cats go 4 for 7. Now down to three cities.

IT - No battles, though it looks like Artaxata may fall to the six cavs that just surrounded it.

1345 ad (9) - Elite leg in Artaxata kills cav out of spite. Cats go impressive 6 for 8.

IT - Artaxata falls, but not before our reg spear kills a 2/4 cav. Army in Rome holds off five cavs and finishes the round with a single hp.

1350 ad (10) - Veii spear -> spear. Cats go 2 for 4.

IT - We lose a legion in Rome, but hold otherwise. Japanese complete US.

1355 ad (11) - Rome spear -> spear. Cats go 2 for 7.

IT - Our cities are attacked by 8 cavs and 2 knights and we lose a single leg.

1360 ad (12) - Cats get their aim back and go 5 for 7.

IT - Although it takes some 15-20 units this turn, including two cavs that lost to spears, Rome finally falls. And then there was one....

1365 ad (13) - Veii spear -> spear. Cats go 1 for 2.

IT - It turns out to be the English who get the honors....

History remembers Caesar the Meek.


Thank you all for volunteering to undertake this bit of insanity with me. Though the end was not the desired one, we have nothing to be ashamed of. :)

>>>FINAL SAVE<<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Sesn_SG003_AD1365_01.SAV)

I'm kind of a visual person, so....

Although it was my intention that this would be a game that some teams would lose, I feel bad. I hope this doesn't put you off playing the next game.

Despite the loss, well done and well played guys, with a few breaks here and there it could have been a different story.

Please post in the spoiler thread and describe your tactics there, so we can all compare the differences between a winning and a losing game. Thanks.

thanks MB, and no I'm not deterred. I think we all knew from the beginning that this would be a tough variant. All round it was quite an enjoyable game.
Thanks to the rest of team sesn for a fun game (even if it didn't finish how we would have liked), it's been great playing with you all.

Sorry guys. I was off in Lala land for a while, and didn't pay much attention to Sg's. This was kindof a bummer. I would of played this out to the end, but I didn't see the post of M60's turns.
It was fun to play with you guys. I hope we can try again next time or something.
Next time we must be less cautious, and when we have an opening, drive full strength towards it.

Considering how things turned out, I’m still considering what fundamental mistakes were made. Did we micro-manage towns enough? Probably not, but to the extent things worked against us, there would seem to be more to it. Would killing Greece right off have helped? They were in such a bad start position, I’m still not convinced that made a difference. England hit us with far more, so maybe they would have been the better choice to beat on. Build selections? I thought at times maybe we needed a few more workers to speed development. Again, don’t know if that was significant. Maybe it was the time we started the GA. I thought for sure it would be best to wait and do it in Monarchy, but maybe that was a serious mistake. We might have gotten that MGL sooner to build the GLib. At the same time, Germany did get it relatively early. It just seemed with what few towns we had, we needed more of an impact. Having only played C3C lately, I really wasn’t ready for this game at the beginning. The shelf-life of the legion in this case was long enough without medieval infantry that maybe a despotic GA would have worked better for us.

As far as the variant goes, I thought while the 20 turn rule was a challenge, it was the idea that you couldn’t keep a city that was a rally killer. That removed any hope we could ever catch up in tech by capturing the Glib. And it didn’t really allow for anything other than an AW end-game. I would have preferred something like declare war on contact, and with each civ you can have 20 turns of peace at a time of your choice, then back to war for the duration. That would have created more imaginative opportunities for strategy.

As far as fighting went, I thought we were pretty good. Killing cav with a horseman or archer isn’t so tough, once you have the technique down. Redlining regulars with cats and hit them from superior terrain with vet units will result in a kill more often than you would think.

Thanks to all. Although the end result was a bust, it was worth the time.

Some very concise thoughts, M60.

IMHO, the real killer was the ill-timed GA, and the lack of MGL's. I think we overestimated the power of the legs, and should have tripped the GA right away. Our only hope was to get a large swatch of land early, and simply outproduce the ai's.

I really hate blaming our failure on the lack of leaders, but I think the GL could have made an immense difference.

You're also right that it was worth the time, loss or not. I learned quite a bit from this game, met another player, and had some really intense turns. The only thing that was missing was the "W". :shrug:

Hmm, tough to say. I think the biggest killer was the fact we went with archers instead of Horses really early. It was my first real lesson in Civ3, speed kills. I am really surprised we didn't use it better.
I think that the limited use of archers, plus the retreat and hit and run tactics of the horses, coupled with our over production of archers kinda hurt us. I was really bummed with the lack of timely MGL's. I still got the trifecta in 4 turns, then pulled another couple later.
This was a solid team and we should do it again or something. This was the one SG that I was checking several times daily for updates. (Still don't know how I missed the last turns, someone must have deleted my email notification).

I'm sure you're all as disappointed as I am that we didn't even earn the wooden spoon as a consolation prize! See what a little effort doesn't get you? :D

We didn't?!?!

If it was grs's team, I already warned him about touching my wooden spoon...:hammer:

Congrats on not being the spooners. Looks like poor Mistfit can't seem to get any luck with a possible #2 spoon.

You guys up for SGOTM #4??
I might be. I like Variants. Especially when we can lay down the Hammer.

Sorry Romeo, I don't think it's going to come together this time around. Nem is already on another team, Tal never resurfaced, and of course can't speak for him, but gathered Sesn didn't feeling like playing a 5CC game.

Actually, I was rather interested in the 5CC, as I have yet to play one. I am doing a 3CC now.

The real problem - *looks at sig* - is that I can't be sure I would be able to play my turns in anything resembling a timely fashion. I am consistently falling behind in the ones I have now. And no, I didn't just sign up for them all, more like expressed an interest months ago, then all the games got started at once. :rolleyes:

Nem PM'ed me to inquire about this, and I told him much the same thing. If I thought you guys had interest, I would have explained myself to you too. As it is, I'd like to get back together for our own little revenge on SGOTM, but maybe for SGOTM5?

And I haven't heard a peep from Tal since he dropped out of this thread.

[lurk]
I may be interested in playing SGOTM4, if I find a team: I have exams in 2 weeks, that's why I wasn't sure about participating before, but it looks like I can make it.

@Sesn and Team: I haven't a problem with delays; if someone needs 1 more day to play, just say so.

btw: I also haven't played a 5CC before, and I'd want to try.

EDIT: I haven't yet lurked in any team-thread of SGOTM4, so, if your team isn't interested to play, let me know.
[/delurk]