Hi,

would any of you guys have ideas about possible techs in western Europe 1580-1640 (Spain, France, Netherlands, England) ?

Limited unit upgrade paths, roughly 120 turns. Protestant and catholic flavors possible.
Time of East India companies and merchant adventurers.

Ideas welcome !

Magnetic compass ca. 1581

First known life insurance in England 1583

First English travelling and standing clocks (1585) (critical IIRC to eventually discovering how to tell longitude)

First knitting machine 1589

First English papermill 1590

Ruins of Pomnpeii discovered 1592

Mercator's atlas posthumously published 1595

Galileo invents thermometer 1596

English begin forced transport for criminals 1597

First field hospitals 1597

Tycho Brahe publishes work on his instruments 1598

Postal agreement between Germany and France 1601

Galileo invents proportional compass 1606

Telescope invented 1608

First checks (Netherlands) 1608

Dutch merchants permitted in Japan 1611

Amsterdam Exchange builot 1613

Trigonometrical triangulation for cartography - 1617

First harbor with sluices - La Havre - 1628

Richelieu founds Academie Francaise - 1635

Modern geometry - 1639

Micrometer - 1639

Medical uses of quinine - 1639

Coke made from coal - 1640


... A start? :)

-Oz

I'm working on a scenario right now that roughly encompasses that time frame. Mine goes from 1556-1618. In fact I'm having some difficulty constucting a custom tech tree right now myself.

1580 to 1640...

ozymandias covered a lot there. here are some more

- Fluyt Merchantmen
- sawmill powered by wind
- flintlock musket

Magnetic compass ca. 1581

First known life insurance in England 1583

First English travelling and standing clocks (1585) (critical IIRC to eventually discovering how to tell longitude)

First knitting machine 1589

First English papermill 1590

Ruins of Pomnpeii discovered 1592

Mercator's atlas posthumously published 1595

Galileo invents thermometer 1596

English begin forced transport for criminals 1597

First field hospitals 1597

Tycho Brahe publishes work on his instruments 1598

Postal agreement between Germany and France 1601

Galileo invents proportional compass 1606

Telescope invented 1608

First checks (Netherlands) 1608

Dutch merchants permitted in Japan 1611

Amsterdam Exchange builot 1613

Trigonometrical triangulation for cartography - 1617

First harbor with sluices - La Havre - 1628

Richelieu founds Academie Francaise - 1635

Modern geometry - 1639

Micrometer - 1639

Medical uses of quinine - 1639

Coke made from coal - 1640


... A start? :)

-Oz

I'm very impressed where did you find all these informations ?

I'm very impressed where did you find all these informations ?

A reference book called "The Timetables Of History". It goes from 5000 BCE to (3rd edition) 1990 CE in one volume -- very much an overview, and very useful.

-Oz

A reference book called "The Timetables Of History". It goes from 5000 BCE to (3rd edition) 1990 CE in one volume -- very much an overview, and very useful.

-Oz

:thanx: cool !!

It might be wise to ask in the History forum as well. Some pretty clever people in there.

Well some ideas (windmill, navy stuff). Pb is of course the difference between discovery and generalization (ie cartridge was invented before the period but its use spread only after the period.

BTW at the moment the map includes North Africa, France, Spanish-held Franche Comté, Belgium and Luxemburg, Spain (inc Portugal), Netherlands, England, Ireland and Scotland and a little piece of Switzerland and limited HRE (for standard version, not sure yet for the PBEM version (I am really into PBEMs lately)).

I am not sure Scotland is really needed (albeit they have nice units and can be a threat for England).

And apart from making Pyrenees impassable, I am looking for a way of making the Spanish not land on French or English channel shores. Have immobile defenders all along the coast ?

Civs :
- Spain
- England
- Netherlands
- Turkish protectorates
- France (League, Guise)
- France (Protestant and loyalists, Henry IV of Navarra
- Irish
- Scotland
Not in PBEM
- Swiss
- HRE

Lou, of course it's accurate to include Norway, but don't you think it'll give strange gameplay? Or will you remove the ability to build settlers?

Lou, of course it's accurate to include Norway, but don't you think it'll give strange gameplay? Or will you remove the ability to build settlers?

:confused: Wasn't Norway part of the Kingdom of Denmark throughout this period?

Scenarios :

The Great Armada (Western Europe 1580 - 1640) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104091)

The Spanish Reconquista (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=115216)

Maps :

Egypt (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45710) | the Black Sea (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1029532#post1029532) | India (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45910) | South Africa (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=825178#post825178) | The Baltic sea (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47613) | Tropical Africa (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=856861#post856861) | Magna Grecia (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52718) | France (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74013) | the Three Kingdoms (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79751) |
Western Europe (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94457) |

Units :

Egyptian Spearman (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56612) | WWII PTW extras (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69446) | Dinosaurs PTW extras (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69439)

Napoleonic Units :

Imperial Guard Grenadier (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54586) | Swedish Line (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61472) | Spanish Line (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63971) | Austrian Infantry (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65251) |

LouLong

"..making Pyrenees impassable....looking for a way of making the Spanish not land on French or English channel shores."

Why do you want to do that? What is the purpose of your game? It can't be exploration with your map. And it can't be Conquest.
Cultural Victory?

How were you planning to reenact the Spanish Armada Campaign?

Well, there are two main countries and their alliances.

England
+ Netherlands
+ Protestant French

Spanish
+ French Ligue
+ Irish

+ Scotland : neutral

+ Turks : locked war against Spain

If Pyrenees are passable, Spain will just cross into France and go up to the Netherlands (their tercios are really good).
Then from the Low countries, they can in one turn unload troops on the English channel shores whereas I want them to resupply Belgium/fight the Netherlands with ship convoys and I want them to be at least one turn at sea before landing troops onto England (which allows Drake defeating the Great Armada otherwise there is no risk for the Spanish at all).

I am not sure Scotland is really needed

EXCUSE ME?








just my little joke ;)

Ozy has missed one (not on selected countries, but needed)

1632 - Galileo public his book "Over the maximal system" and the scientific method begun to be used on Europe.

Ozy has missed one (not on selected countries, but needed)

1632 - Galileo public his book "Over the maximal system" and the scientific method begun to be used on Europe.

:confused: I thought Dialogho sopra i due massimi sistemi dei mondo was a description of apparent terrestrial motion? Wouldn't, e.g., Bacon's Historia naturalis et experimentalis of 1622 be as good a starting point for the scientific method?

What Units and Wonders of the World do you plan on using?
I'm nearly finished with my similar scenario. My scenario includes Scandinavia, Russia, and Eastern Europe. Mine also begins and ends earlier than yours; also the Huguenots are not a seperate civilization they're just a pack of barbarians (no offense to the Huguenots) centered around the fortress of La Rochelle and the Central Massif.
I started a thread to preview my scenario that was buried a couple weeks ago due to a seeming lack of interest. But here is a screenshot of the unfinished product.
http://civfanatics.net/uploads7/dk-1588.JPG

:confused: Wasn't Norway part of the Kingdom of Denmark throughout this period?Yes? It was still known as Norway, and as Denmark isn't in the map...
I prefer to call a spade a spade, even if it's technically a subset of the agricultural tools... :lol:

LouLong, check out the map Kubz attached. He forces the Spanish to be at sea at least one turn by not having any ports in Flanders.

Hmm, is it possible to have immobile sea units? Which could represent the home water advantage?

:confused: I thought Dialogho sopra i due massimi sistemi dei mondo was a description of apparent terrestrial motion? Wouldn't, e.g., Bacon's Historia naturalis et experimentalis of 1622 be as good a starting point for the scientific method?

Il dialogo sopra i due massimi sistemi is the first notify of scientific world against Church predominion. Galileo in this book confirm Kepler theories and refuse Tolomee's one. Because he was persecuted by Holy inquisition, I think that this work is a good example of our scie method. Also Galileo is the first who have theorized the sperimental method, the foundament of our sci method.

Il dialogo sopra i due massimi sistemi is the first notify of scientific world against Church predominion. Galileo in this book confirm Kepler theories and refuse Tolomee's one. Because he was persecuted by Holy inquisition, I think that this work is a good example of our scie method. Also Galileo is the first who have theorized the sperimental method, the foundament of our sci method.

Ah! Mille grazie :)

-Oz

LouLong, check out the map Kubz attached. He forces the Spanish to be at sea at least one turn by not having any ports in Flanders.
Exactly what I had in mind. One of the many reasons the Spanish Armada failed was due to the fact the Spanish ships could not anchor in port in the Netherlands due to their size. This allowed the English to harrass the Spanish Armada while the Spaniards waited for the Duke of Parma's army to arrive and board the ships. Of course the Duke would never arrive and the English sent fire ships (ships set afire and laden with explosives) into the Armada. I'm not sure how they possibly could be implemented, but Fireships would be an interesting unit idea.

[...] Of course the Duke would never arrive and the English sent fire ships (ships set afire and laden with explosives) into the Armada. I'm not sure how they possibly could be implemented, but Fireships would be an interesting unit idea.

Hmmm ... It's a bit extreme, but tag them as nukes? :confused: It might make them overly powerful, but they could presumably only be used against other ships ... Although now that I think of it ships in port could be a problem ...

fire ships are an interesting idea albeit I thought they were used more frequently in later periods.

The idea of having no Spanish harbors in the Low Countries is interesting but does not fit with my map (much more detailed and localized than Kubz's).



exemple :

fire ships are an interesting idea albeit I thought they were used more frequently in later periods.

The idea of having no Spanish harbors in the Low Countries is interesting but does not fit with my map (much more detailed and localized than Kubz's).

exemple :

Why don't you change your map? remove Oostende and the other ports are perhaps too far away from the english coast

Sorry this has taken so long -- R/L & all...

Techs (and what I imagine going with them) are:

1. Magnetic Compass (something good for ships ... :) )
2. Snaphaunce (early flintlock; troop type ...?)
3. Forced Transport (colonist generating wonder)
4. Postal Service (commerce improvement)
5. Battlefield Medecine (as usual)
6. Modern Measuring Instruments (meant to include mobile clocks; thermometer; etc. -- Telescope Wonder)
7. Advanced Cartography (Mercator's Atlas Wonder)
8. Advanced Financial Instruments (Stock Market)
9. Mill Machinery (factory/mill)
10. Oriental Trade (some trade / sea wonder ...)
11. Advanced Harbors (representing sluices; new harbor improvement)
12. Scientific Method (Academy small wonder)
13. The Flintlock (more troops ...)

-- Thoughts / comments / feedback?

-Oz

...
10. Oriental Trade (some trade / sea wonder ...)
...More than one country has had a East India Company, sounds like a given wonder to me. :D
Or maybe even a small wonder...

Hi All -- Just FYI I'm away from tomorrow until a week from Monday, sans internet access :( . Hopefully I'll return to some comments on the tech tree! :D

-Oz

Some nice ideas for the tech-tree. Combined with what I have already I should be able to make it alright.

I have sorted things out with Spanish-held Netherlands by keeping only Antwerpen as a harbor but distant enough so that Spain cannot land within one turn.

BTW if Scotsmen, Irish or English want to check the cities I have placed (I am not sure for some of them that might be modern) and by providing some names of cities for Wales, Cornwales, East England generally speaking).

It's Canterbury....
and please add Plymouth. Important Elizabethan port.

That's a big map. A lot of not controlled area.
And traversing the pyrenees with wheeled units is not possible.

And I still prefer a color change. Blue for the French, orange for the Dutch and red for the English.

Do not worry the areas will be covered. I just don't want to put un-historical cities.

So Plymouth is a good help for instance.

Some news.

It is advancing well, albeit slowly. I just need to finish adding and checking the improvements' pcx and add them (if necessary) to the city.
Then I am waiting for some Cossack conversions to be released (mostly mounted units).

Here are some of the units, mostly new.

And here is an overwiew of the map and the way it is shared by the different civs (9 at the moment, the HRE being more a nuisance or a trading opportunity than anything else, and 8 without the HRE for the PBEM version).

It shows me as well I need to change the civ colors for they are a bit messy at the moment...

nice collection of units there LouLong... I've adapted aaglos Golden Hind unit to show no markings on teh sail in case your're interested. Posted in the units section a month ago.

Looking forward to this scenario

I can make some of these techs, but don't expect too many of them, as school has started and I'm sick.

I did the first thermometer, sorry if it's grossly inaccurate, but I think it's supposed to look like that. It's in my library.

Ok, approaching the final phase.

Still missing a few icons (mostly for improvements and wonders, a few for techs and units) that I am "entering" or looking for...
Then I can enter the data (techs, units) and the game can be playtested.

But I get two problems :

- the tech boxes in the scientific advisor screen are not big enough to fit the tech title. Any way (except shortening the title) out of that ?
That prevents me from finishing the screen by linking the techs.
Another weird thing is that when you "highlight" a tech, a strange commentary appears. Should I change some text in script or somewhere else ? Or can I erase it ?

- eagerly awaiting a few Cossack conversions needed (Rider, ....) by Steph.

Now I guess these units could be replaced by place holders for the testing.

So anyone here interested in doing some testing (normally OK next monday with or without the new units and if possible with a clean-looking screen).

Thanks to Ozy for the tech-tree, that helped me a lot. The final one is fine and balanced I think (no rush along unit improvements tech-line) but slightly complicated at place (I might move again two techs (Mobile Clocks and Mills).


Preview below (of course I wanted to show you the ancient one but it is just a black square with a yellow question mark ! ;) ):

But I get two problems :

- the tech boxes in the scientific advisor screen are not big enough to fit the tech title. Any way (except shortening the title) out of that ?
That prevents me from finishing the screen by linking the techs.
Another weird thing is that when you "highlight" a tech, a strange commentary appears. Should I change some text in script or somewhere else ? Or can I erase it ?
Well when you are playing on not debug the sentences are just shortened(by writing "Military...") and it looks ok. The strange commentaries are written in the script.txt file, its easy to change. They are sorted by number(the first tech in the editor gets the first text from the script file).

Thanks Yoda ! And nice to see you are still around. Will need to get on MSN one of these days.
Too bad for the script. I thought I was through with Pedia txt and now I have to do the script...


CALL FOR PLAYTESTERS IN ABOUT A WEEK !

Nobody interested ???