BNH01- Conquesting Emperor [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Rik Meleet

Jul 20, 2004, 04:37 PM

Starting turn:
[0] 4000 BC.
The general rule on moving the settler is: "Only consider moving if your starting position is crap". Well Obviously it isn't. 2nd rule is: "don't settle on bonus-grasslands". 3rd rule is: "move the worker and scout first, perhaps there are better locations". Worker goes due West. More grassland, more river, more mountains. The scout goes due north. Wheat 4 tiles north. Great 2nd site. Settle on the spot. "Lissabon" founded. A goody hut just outside our borders. Start curragh.
Set research to Ceremonial Burial as it is the cheapest tech so we won't get the cheapest tech from huts. 100% Sci.

[1] 3950 BC. Worker mines, Scout scouts.
[2] 3900 BC. idem
[3] 3850 BC. Scout finds coast in the West.
[4] 3800 BC. Worker mines, Scout scouts.
[5] 3750 BC. Scout finds a Goody hut.
[6] 3700 BC. Scout is on a volcano which is about to become active :eek: ! The hut gives us 25 gold. Lissabon will grow next turn, so I switch tiles around.
IBT: Lissabon grows and Curragh is finished. Starting scout.
[7] 3650 BC. Up lux to 10%. Curragh explores southwards. Mine finished, worker roads the tile. Scout sees the tip of the likely Northern Coast. Switch tiles to build Scout in 2.
[8] 3600 BC. Scout moving further north.
IBT: scout build in Lissabon. Next in queue: Settler.
[9] 3550 BC. New scout pops the hut and finds: Warrior Code. Northern Scout "Pablo" finds Ivory.
IBT: Lissabon expands it's borders. Volcano erupts.
[10] 3500 BC. Move worker towards cow.
[11] 3450 BC. Southern Scout "Juan" finds Incense. Our curragh reaches the south tip of our Island.
IBT: another volcano erupts.
[12] 3400 BC. Pablo finds more wheat.
[13] 3350 BC. More land scouted. Juan finds some Tundra-Game.
[14] 3300 BC. Pablo spots another goody hut. So does our Curragh.
IBT: Lissabon grows to size 3.
[15] 3250 BC. Lux upped to 30%. Settler due in 1. Curragh finds Tobacco. Pablo moves into position to pop the hut next turn, also spotting an oasis. Juan is moving towards the other hut.

So my 15 turns are done. I believe 10 turns from now on.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/small_map_3250_bc.JPG (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/big_map_3250_bc.JPG)
Click image for larger version.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_3250bc.SAV)

BigNHuge

Jul 20, 2004, 05:33 PM

Very nice so here is the order now. Looks very good start wise.

Rik Meleet<------ Just played
jb1964<------ Up
BigNHuge<------ on deck
SJ Frank<------ in the hole

SJ Frank

Jul 20, 2004, 09:33 PM

Hi guys, I downloaded the save, and took the liberty of creating a tentative dot-map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-DotMap2.jpg

sites 1 - 5 are the most important ones in my estimation.

1 is the 4-turn settler factory

2 gets the Ivory (SoZ anyone :D )

3 allows 1 to get that 2nd wheat without having to build a temple. It could be build one tile to the NW in order to reduce overlap, but doing so would use up a valuable food tile. Site 3 is surrounded by mountains, so in the future, it's going to need all the food tile is can get.

4 is our wonder site, settle it then immediately put it on a pre-build

5 could be our FP site. It is on the 2nd ring, in the general direction of our future expension, and has plenty of good shields. When I play solo, I like to pick out the FP early, and settle it with high priority. Getting the FP early make a huge difference IMO.

Note that most cities are on fresh water, and most do not need a temple to be productive cities.

Comments?

SJ Frank

Jul 20, 2004, 10:17 PM

I also contemplated switching Lissabon to a granary right now.

Without our 2nd city being such a strong site, it would be a no brainer to do granary first.

However, right now we do have a trade off. Between 1) founding our 2nd city 9 turns early (yes, I counted, it would take Lissabon exactly 10 turns to build the granary then the settler), vs. 2) delaying our 3rd city to probably the 6th city by at least 10 turns. Cities 7 and beyond will benefit from founding city 2 earlier, because by then the settler factory in city 2 will be up and running.

My personal opinion is to do the granary first, because I think cities 2 - 6 are all very important to us. The real decision, of course, rests with jb1964 :) .

Now, if you choose the granary first route, there is quite a bit of micro-management to be done. In order to do the granary in 6 (to have it finish right before growth, this is very important), you must move the citizen on the cattle to work forrest for one turn, then return him to the cattle on the next turn.

Then, in order to follow the granary immediately with a 4-turn settler, you must have the worker finish his mine, road the same square, then immediately move onto the cattle tile and start irregating, without delay.

Within the city screen, you must make sure that the governer is on production. Upon growth from size 3 to 4, you must move the citizen from the forrest tile to the BG tile (to give the city +3 food per turn). The worker will finish his irrigation just in time to fill out the food box on the 4th turn, and the auto-picked citizen on growth from size 4 to 5 will be just enough to complete the settler that turn.

Simple, no? :p

Rik Meleet

Jul 21, 2004, 05:48 AM

The decision on the granary is for the next player (jb1964) of course, but let me state why I didn't queue a granary. at 3 citizens we are already on 30% lux-slider. with 4 and 5 it will certainly harm our research. My thoughts were to connect luxuries quickly and then grow.

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 06:08 AM

My thoughts are we get a settler out asap. We need lux and a 2nd city. Make city #2 our granary city and have Lisbon be able to get the Great Lighthouse in the not so distant future. On Archy you never know what kind of distance is between our empire and another. I say we have Lissabon make settlers when it needs to shrink for lux tax reasons, put something like a barracks (Not really needed yet, but those Veteran spears/AC would be nice for stand by) and crank out the defense or build more curraghs/galleys for exploration.

I would like to try to get a tech the AI wouldn't get early and have that for trading purposes.(Something tells me that we will be hopelessly behind in tech, but wheres the challenge when your always 3 or 4 techs ahead)

Also have we scouted all the island? If so and we havent found anyone save those scouts and fill up a few galleys with them for scouting other large islands for better map value in the future.

The dot map you gave is a very good one i agree with. Good work on it.

Very good 15 turns there Rik. Looks like were on track for an intresting game. :)

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 08:21 AM

I just remembered that JB is in 1.15b because of a SG that he is in right now (GGF4)

JB do you want a skip or are you upgrading?

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 12:32 PM

Also forgot to mention that we are on the 24 hours to get and 48 hours to play

SJ Frank

Jul 21, 2004, 12:47 PM

This is something that I learned while reading games by the experts on this forum, that lux tax concerns is a very bad reason to reduce your city size early in the game.

I look at it this way, by playing around with the lux slider in the F1 screen, you can actually put an exactly dollar value on what the lux tax is costing you.

For example, at this stage in the game, each tick on slider is costing around 2 gold, and we are planing to run the higher lux for, say 100 turns. What is that costing you? Exactly 200 gold. And what is the benefit? Founding each of your cities X turns earlier.

Compare this price with some of the other things that you have to pay for:

60 gold to upgrade one warrior to swordsmen.
~240 gold to rush one temple
~200 gold to buy one ancient era tech (after some contacts are made)

Paying money to found cities early is an extreme good deal, because its effect snowballs.

That also means hooking up lux is also a lower priority. Those workers should work on getting more cities founded more quickly, because the trade off is once again, growth vs. gold.

I wouldn't mind runing 50% or even 70% lux for a few turns in this game. Try it, you just might like it ;)

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 01:02 PM

I say we weigh both sides of the issue before we continue.

SJ Frank

Jul 21, 2004, 01:57 PM

This just came up, I'm going to be out of town for this weekend, from thursday afternoon to probably monday night. I will have web access, but unfortunately no civ access.

This means that 1) please skip me during that time, sorry about it :blush:
and 2) I'd really like to get a turn in before I go, preferably after BigNHuge.

As far as the granary vs settler, I'm fine with whatever JB or Big decides to do. It is a SG after all, and I don't mind trying things that I normally wouldn't do myself.

In my previous post, I was trying to point out that going for settler right now for lux concerns is probably not a good reason. Going for an early settler because our 2nd city site is so strong is a very good reason. In fact, if we are on our own lsland, we should definitely do it.

Big also raises a interesting point about building the Lighthouse in Lisbon. It could be very useful on this map.

If we want to do it, we'll need to reasearch/buy Masonry for the pre-build, then go for writing + map making. But, we also can build the SoZ, which requires a Masonry + Math research line. Or, do you guys think we have a chance for the Philosophy gambit? If so, then we need to start on writing right away. Ah choices, choices :crazyeye:

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 03:11 PM

Ummm... it doesnt look like jb is gonna make the 24 hour limit. So im gonna move him to the end so the line up will look like this. Also this helps with SJ Franks restriction of play to tomorrow.

Rik Meleet
BigNHuge<------ Up
SJ Frank<------ On Deck
jb1964<------ In the hole

BigNHuge

Jul 21, 2004, 04:08 PM

Here is the turns and the save.

Turn [0]- Take a look and contemplate what to do in this situation. The granary would be nice, and so would the settler. I decided to go with the Settler for 2 reasons.
1.) There doesnt seem to be anyone on our island, so we can hold out on the granary for city 2.
2.) A granary is 1gpt. We need the gold for lux tax.

Turn [1]- Lissabon Settler->Spearman. Hmm... how can we build spearmen? Well Sir Pablo of Portugul popped us Bronze Working. Set lux to 0 and can get Ceremonial Burial in 6. Losing 0gpt. Juan will hit a goodie next turn. Curragh moves North. Pablo spots marsh in the distant north.

Turn [2]- Worker roads new mine. Curragh moves. Settler will be there in 3. Jaun gets us the greatest possible thing for us at the moment. Masonry. Yes we can prebuild so we can get either SoZ or a jump to the GL. You guys can decide this. I won't prebuild yet.

Turn [3]- Juan starts heading north up the west coast. Pablo finds more marsh north. Curragh is moving. Nothing special here.

Turn [4]- This turn is boring. Just exploring.

Turn [5]- Found Oporto. Set it to Granary. In 30. Worker to irrigate cow. Meet the Iroquois. They have nothing to trade us. They have a second city. 10 gold and are down 3 techs to us. Soon to be 4. Ceremonial burial in 1. But they will hit a goodie hut 1 turn before us :(.

Turn [6]- They took the hut and hit what it seems to be Warrior Code. Still up 3 techs though. I think we should run a min at writing and go to map making. We are up in techs with our neighbor and we can get 8gpt making it still profitable to run lux tax. Scouts and curragh scout. Worker irrigates cow.

Turn [7]- Curragh finds the Iroquois homeland. Scouts scout. Nothing else special.

Turn [8]- Lissabon Spearman-> Worker. Might switch this. Nothing special here.

Turn [9]- Switch Lissabon to another curragh to scout the east coast. Other then that nothing special.

Turn [10]- Worker to road cow. Another snorzville turn.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH-_2750bc.jpg
Thoughts on turns~

I think were in good shape. After the curragh is finished, a settler can be built. Someone can switch the granary in Oporto. Also, someone can switch off the writing. I chose this because we popped Masonry :goodjob: and can prebuild now. We can try for Philosphy but i doubt we could get it. Any Questions/Comments are definantly welcome. :cool:

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH-2750bc.SAV)

SJ Frank

Jul 21, 2004, 05:19 PM

I got it, will play later tonight.

We are not alone :eek:

SJ Frank

Jul 21, 2004, 11:14 PM

During my turns, I tried to push for growth above everything else.

I used the food bonus tiles in both cites whenever I could, and left both cities building granaries. Those granaries will complete during next player's turn. Please make sure they are completed before growth (Lisbon is already set up this way)

Exploration: the portion of our continent below the Iroquois holdings are pretty much mapped out, so I sent our scouts to explore further north. The second curragh was a great call :goodjob: . Each of the curraghs contacted a new civ, confirming that we are the tech leader.

Science: During turn 0, I pushed science all the way to 100%, to my surprise, it reduced the researching time of Writing from 46 to 36 turns. How is this possible, on a huge map? I decided to leave research at max, It won't matter in the first 20 turns or so, because of the lux tax that I'm planning to use, but once we get some MPs in place and more cities founded, we should be able to get Writing sooner. Besides, by researching, we get to buy Writing from the AI at a real discount, if it comes to that. And the bottom line is - I think we might have a chance at Philosophy!

One final thought: if you deem it real important to explore the Iroquois land for horses, then turn one of the scouts around.

The Turn Log follows:

[0] 2750
- I thought about switching Lisbon to Granary now, but our brave scout Pablo reports seeing land across the sea, so exploration along the East Coast is an urgent business. Lisbon stays on Curragh.
- I think Oporto will need the MP more than Lisbon, due to its corruption and lack of roads, so I wake up the spear in Lisbon and send him north. Lux to 10%.
- I really wish Big had built two warriors instead of the spear. A regular spear isn't of much use in warfare any ways; we sure could use MPs at both cities.
- Science to max (90%), and I press enter.

[1] 2710
- Lisbon starts on Granary, and is set to work the cattle tile, growth in 4. The new East Coast Curragh heads north.

[2] 2670
- Pablo finds a great stash of Incense on the East Coast. Juan finds an undisturbed hut a knight's move from the Ivory, and we get Wheel! I ctrl-shift-M and looked around, unfortunately, we don't have any horse.

[3] 2630
- Worker finishes roading the cattle, since Lisbon already have enough improvements for a 6-turn warrior/settler factory at size 3-5, I send the worker towards Oporto. Oporto will need much more worker help to become a 4-turn factory though.

[4] 2590
[5] 2550
- Another hut next to Niagara Falls nets 25 gold.
- The West Coast curragh finds a land bridge blocking the northern passage, so he turns west.

[6] 2510
[7] 2470
[8] 2430
- Dark green boarder across the seas! Next turn, our western curragh meets the Aztecs. We are up Masonry, Alphabet, Wheel and CB on them.

[9] 2390
[10] 2350
- The eastern curragh meets the Summerians; they are down the same 4 techs as the Aztecs.

So end the first reign of Prince Francis William of the Portuguese :)

Rik Meleet

Jul 22, 2004, 06:30 AM

Things I've noticed:
Iroquois have 2 Ivory connected. Seems Ivory is plentiful on this map. If we want SoZ we'd better hurry. But then again: Wonder Addiction isn't very smart on huge Emperor maps.
Our "island" is more a continent. Expect more civs there.
Both cities need MM-ing to get them to grow in 1 turn, with no shield loss.
I prefer setting Lissabon and Oporto to a worker and a settler pump. The 3rd city (near the ivory ??) can be a warrior pump then.

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 08:08 AM

Rik why dont you take the save. jb seems to be MIA.

This is the official line up

Rik Meleet<------ Up
jb1964<------ Skip until he contacts us
BigNHuge<------ On Deck
SJ Frank<------ In the hole

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 08:16 AM

Also, i think we should do one of two things. I really think we should set city #4 to a pre-build for a wonder.

We should rush ASAP for Philo. If we even have the slightest chance to get it we should. Even if we dont, we will be beat by 1-2 civs, and we can trade that tech at 4th civ prices to everyone else.

If we do get to Philo first, it would be excellent indeed. But what free tech would we take?

This is the One of Two choices.

If it really looks like Mathmatics will be grabbed during our time/or the Iroquois start the SoZ before we finish Philo, we should get Map Making. That way we can trade for Math and have an easy shot at The Great Lighthouse in Lissabon. But if they take the Iron Working or HBR or Mysticism-Polythesiem route get Math. That way we have an Early Advantage on the SoZ.

If by some chance we dont get SoZ. (Knock on wood.) We can fall back on something like Pyramids, Oracle, or try a very very long prebuild to Sun Tzu's.

Comments? :)

Rik Meleet

Jul 22, 2004, 10:42 AM

I've got it.

SJ Frank

Jul 22, 2004, 01:02 PM

Agreed on the city management. Looking back, I should have let Lisbon grow more.

Lisbon is going to be a 6 turn settler/warrior factory. It can't build settlers any faster, and it doesn't have enough shield to build spears/archers. However, we could use another exploring curragh...

Oporto will need another city founded in order to get to 4-turn factory. In the mean time, I think it can do a few workers first.

This is what I think about the SoZ:

-- We don't care if someone else got it on another island, because we're not gonna attack another island (or continent :lol: ) until late Middle Age at least.

-- It'd be great if we get it, then we can run over the Iro's easily.

-- If the Iro's get it instead of us, we can take it by force. There is nothing more satisfying than capturing a wonder a turn after its completion, and it's fitting to our theme :)

Do we need to Lighthouse, our exploring curraghs seem to be doing fine, and being seafearing, our ship have less chance of sinking. So instead of spending the shields on the wonder, we can spend it on settlers and galleys, and plan on suiciding those galleys :crazyeye: . It has a "similar" effect to the Lighthouse.

As for the choice of free tech after Philosophy, I prefer the usual path of CoL, then min science on Republic. What can I say, with 2 settler pumps and an early republic, this start looks like a builder's dream :love: . Too bad we have to go-a-conquering ;)

jb1964

Jul 22, 2004, 03:00 PM

Hiya, I'm back on-line. I'll play after Rik's done w/ his turns.

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 03:04 PM

Welcome back jb! :)

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 03:06 PM

I will be gone from tomorrow-maybe sunday. If i dont get to play before then, skip me. But if Rik posts the save soon, would you plz play asap jb thank you.

Rik Meleet

Jul 22, 2004, 03:10 PM

Playing now - you're welcome.

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 03:11 PM

thank you very much :goodjob:

Rik Meleet

Jul 22, 2004, 04:06 PM

IHT: MM-ing cities.

IBT: Sumeria is unhappy with our curraghs inside their borders. Just passing through, Gilgamesh.

[1] 2310 BC. Lissabon and Oporto have grown. Lux to 30%. MM both cities back to food.

IBT: Lissabon Granary -> Settler

[2] 2270 BC. Worker to improve BG. Scouts find big mountain-range. Aztec-island is really narrow, it seems.
Iro's and Sumerians are fast catching up in techs.

[3] 2230 BC. nothing to report.

IBT: Juan meets a Navajo barbarian in the mountains.

[4] 2190 BC. Moving Juan out of reach of the Navajo warrior. We are expansionistic, but not invulnerable.

IBT: A yellow colored scout walks next to Juan !!!

[5] 2150 BC. Juan talks to the Mongol scout and We start talking to Temujin.
They are up Mysticism, but have all the techs we have. And 3 cities are shown in their list, that means they have 4 cities.
Can't buy his Mysticism.
This is bad news as it means: Very few goody huts (if any) left on our island.

IBT: Iro build a city just in front of the Mongol scout. I suppose they have met by now. Lissabon grows and finishes a settler. Starts warrior.

[6] 2110 BC. down lux to 20%. Up Sci to 80%.
Sending settler to the Incense-region. 1 tile of site 4 on this map:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-DotMap2.jpg
It gets Incense immediately, has 3 more BG's, and claims 3 more tiles without stealing Lissabon's tiles.

[7] 2070 BC. MM Oporto; it will grow next turn.
Curragh rounds the south-cape of Sumeria. Scouts reach the end of the mountain-range and see a big jungle.

IBT: Lissabon: warrior -> settler

[8] 2030 BC. Warrior becomes Lissabon's MP. But since Oporto grew I need to increase lux to 40%.

[9] 1990 BC. Curragh reaches the South-Top of Aztec-island.

IBT: Oporto Granary -> worker. (veto-able)

[10] Found "Guimarães" starts The Pyramids. (veto-able)
Aztec-Curragh spots a new coastline, but can't reach it this turn.

-------------------------------
Next Player: Lissabon is MM-ed for the settler. Build in Oporto anything you like. If you decide a worker, you can get it in 2 (slow growth; in 14) or in 3 (with 3,3 and then 4 shields; grow in 5). I've set it in 2, as a worker drops pop.
Guimarães: Build anything you like.

Azteca and the new land

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/azteca_1950_bc.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/portugal_small_1950_bc.JPG (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/portugal_big_1950_bc.JPG)
Click image for larger version.

And of course: The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-1950bc.SAV
)

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 04:50 PM

Good plays there.

The Pyramids are a good play because if we dont get them, we can switch over to something else. Plus, if we have Lit and lose it, we can switch to GL and ride the tech wave while massing culture/markets/units.

Good plays indeed.

I can't believe that there are 3 civs on our continent. Makes the challenge that more fun :lol:

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 07:03 PM

jb~ is it ok if i play my ten turns now? I will be away from civ until sunday (maybe monday) I would like to play one more round of turns before i leave. (I will have internet access on Saturday.)

All~ Keep up the great work. :goodjob:

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 07:05 PM

I will play 10 turns and write them up here, if you dont like them, then have jb do those ten. Thanks.

BigNHuge

Jul 22, 2004, 08:20 PM

Turn [0]- Take a look at the cities MM, Excellent. Notice only Mr. Temujin is up a tech (Mysticism). Obviously from popping but i dont know how much more popping we'll get now :(

Turn [1]- I notice the sad sad truth that there is NO HORSES in our area. Not even close. This will definantly slow our advances down. (No knights Sniff... :( :( ) No new techs for AI yet.

Turn [2]- Lissabon Settler-->Warrior. As you have described Rik, this is a warrior/settler factory. Ill keep it that way. Send them to get that Ivory ASAP. Will be there in 8. Scouts go 1NW one NE. Curraghs go around too. No new techs for AI yet.

Turn [3]- Good news! We actually will hit another hut next turn. Great news. Others do there thing. Lissabon grows to 3. Lux is at 20% right now. No new AI techs yet.

Turn [4]- Lissabon Warrior-->Settler. In 5. Growth in 2. Juan gives us a "Skilled Warrior" from the hut. He heads N. Bad news. Mongolia picked up Horseback Riding. They are up 2 techs now. Visible techs. (Could have Poly by some off chance.)

Turn [5]- Nothing special here. Just movement and exploring. No new AI techs.

Turn [6]- Lissabon and Oporto both grow to 4. Lux to 40%. Another new hut for Jaun next turn. Come on tech! No new AI techs.

Turn [7]- We have Mysticism. Jaun pops and notices nothing else special. Warrior/Settler for Ivory in one turn. No new AI techs.

Turn [8]- Lissabon Settler-->Warrior. Send this pair to a selected site on the dot map. Cant remember which but one of them. Temujin is a Science machine! He's got IW.

Turn [9]- Oporto Settler-->Worker Hes going to a good site too. Lux to 20%. We will soon have that Ivory. Lagos is set up this turn controlling us the Ivory. Will connect ASAP. Set to build Spearman. No new AI techs.

Turn [10]- Lissabon Warrior-->Settler. Also, we find the Mongolian homeland! Very distant from ours. No immediate threat to us. No new AI techs yet either.

Well here are my 10 turns. If jb does 10 and we like them better lets go with them. I just wanted to contribute more before I go. We have a new lux, a new town, and 2 more promising towns within our grasp now. These were profitable turns I believe. Heres the save. Problems getting a pic loaded though :(

The Save- GO PORTUGUL! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_1625bc.SAV)

Rik Meleet

Jul 22, 2004, 08:36 PM

We've seen dark-red borders !!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/red_border_small.JPG (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/red_border_big.JPG)
Click image for larger version.

jb1964

Jul 22, 2004, 11:05 PM

Got it. Just finished 6 turns on PTW SG. Will play tomorrow evening.

jb1964

Jul 22, 2004, 11:52 PM

Edited to place turn in order w/ other comments/feedback.

SJ Frank

Jul 23, 2004, 06:47 PM

Hi guys, just checking in.

I think Guimarães will need to do a temple before building any wonder, otherwise, it would have only one Bg in range. That was why I had the original dot where it was.

jb1964

Jul 24, 2004, 07:51 AM

The Save, 1375BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01_1375BC.SAV)

Pre-Flight: Nothing much – 1625BC, Turn 55
IBT: Sumerians are building the pyramids and Spain built the Colossus. I think we should consider our Pyramids build a GL pre-build

Turn 1, 1600BC, Turn 56
Bust some fog and then watch settlers move to a pre-determined spot.

Turn 2, 1575BC, Turn 57
Oporto worker to worker
We meet the Byzantines (dark red boarders). They are up IW.
We trade Gil The Wheel for 140g.
Found Emerita where settler stops. Warrior
Change pyramid to temp. We won’t have the luxuries to keep the populace happy to be effective. Also should consider putting a granary here first as well.
Bump research to 80% because we have the cash
We are weak compared to all so I expect a demand coming sooner or later.

Turn 3, 1550BC, Turn 58
Worker moverments

Turn 4, 1525BC, Turn 59
Lisabon, settler to settler
Found Sagres
We meet Elisabeth
Hire an entertainer in Oport to counter growth. We still get the worker and growth next turn.
No deals

Turn 5, 1500, Turn 60
Oporto, worker to worker
Lux slider down to 50%, Writing in two.

Turn 6, 1475BC, Turn 61
Lux slider still at 50%, Writing in one.
Roading down to Guimares

Turn 7, 1450BC, Turn 62
Writing comes in.
Warrior to warrior in Emerita
Found Coimbria
Writing comes in, checking around to get a bead on what to research next. Setting our sites for Philosophy as we are the first to writing and have a good shot the free tech. Philosophy in 15. We could drop that down to 12 w/ another warrior in Guimares.

Trade Myst to Iroquois for 24g.

Turn 8, 1425BC, Turn 63
Another worker in Oporto. Building worker.
Theodora’s close to writing. She’ll only offer up 30g’s for it. Others are willing to cough up IW and gold. We’ll check back next turn and trade around before it loses value.

Turn 9, 1400BC, Turn 64
Prices for writing remain the same. Mongols are offering best price but I don’t want to make him any more advanced that he is. However, if it’s going to get shopped around than we might as well be the ones getting the cash.

Turn 10, 1375BC, Turn 65
Movement and stuff.
Trade opportunities remain the same with Theodora offering on 30g. Why is that remaining constant?

Here’s my proposal: trade Writing + gold to the Mongols for HBR; trade Writing to England for IW + gold; trade writing to Theodora for gold. With this we should still be able to research at 80%. However, I would hold off on the trade for a few more turns as we’re still 12 turns from Philosophy and we could be screwing ourselves out of the free tech.

Ivory should come on line in a turn or two. We need to road down to Guimaraes, which just grew. We have a spare warrior that could take MP duty there. I hire a revenuer in Guimaraes because I do not want to drop our research rate.

The Save, 1375BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01_1375BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/port1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/port2.jpg

BigNHuge

Jul 24, 2004, 01:49 PM

Hi all Great turns jb. so now to SJ.

I wont be civ capable until sunday maybe monday. Have fun all

Rik Meleet

Jul 24, 2004, 02:12 PM

Some things I noticed:
Guimaraes: pop-rushing a temple can help ;)
If we are going to produce other units than warriors; I prefer them build in cities which have barracks (no cities yet).
Oporto is an ok 3 turn worker-pump. We might need another worker-pump (Emerita perhaps??)
Our SoZ Wonder-city "Guimaraes" needs connecting and improving. Send some workers over.
I don't think going north-west will gain us a lot any more. Let's have Lagos as the norht-western border-city. The north-east is viable and also filling our lands may be wise.
I'd switch Lissabon to settler and keep it there. If I calculated correctly it jumps from 4 to 2 and grows back to 4, finishing a settler every 5 or 6 turns.

Good turns BTW.

SJ Frank

Jul 24, 2004, 03:23 PM

I still don't have civ access :( , so please skip me until monday. Mean while, some comments.

Oporto is an ok 3 turn worker-pump. We might need another worker-pump (Emerita perhaps??)

Emerita does not have food bonus, so it does not make a good worker pump. Oporto can make a 2-turn worker factory, after we settle site 3 on the old dot map. BTW, Emerita is one-off from the dot map, did we have a good reason for moving it? Once again, because it's moved, it will need to build a temple in order to access its best tiles. I'd much rather build those 60-shield temple a bit later in the game, after our workers have a chance to improve all the terran.

I don't think going north-west will gain us a lot any more. Let's have Lagos as the norht-western border-city. The north-east is viable and also filling our lands may be wise.

Settling is always easier than conquering. Every city that we settle towards the enemy also takes production away from them, and every city counts in unit support when we switch to Republic. So let take advantage of our high food start and grab as much territory as possible.

I'd switch Lissabon to settler and keep it there. If I calculated correctly it jumps from 4 to 2 and grows back to 4, finishing a settler every 5 or 6 turns.

Ha, JB, you messed up our settler factory :p . I see in your turn log 1525BC that you went Settler->Settler. The correct thing to build in Lisbon is warrior->Settler->warrior->Settler... until all of our lands are filled. When you build 2 settler in a row, although the 2nd settler came sooner, the later settlers will be delayed, because you have made the size of the town smaller, so that it is able to make less shields.

I'd like to get Lisbon back to the warrior/settler factory. We'll need to run a bit of lux for the wonder city anyways, so city size should be a concern here. By running the city at size 3-5 instead of size 2-4, we essentially get a free warrior out of it.

Trade opportunities remain the same with Theodora offering on 30g. Why is that remaining constant?

Maybe because Theodora only has about 35 gold in her pocket? When we trade Writing, make sure that we are ensured of getting philo. That means making sure that Philo isn't the cheapest tech for the mongos after the trade. Don't want them to pop it out of a hut.

And Rick, it seem like I disagree with you so much, it's because your posts are so thought provoking ;) . Besides, I do agree with everything that I didn't comment on...

Edit: just saw Big's post. Do you guy want to wait for me until Monday night. or do you want Rick to take it

jb1964

Jul 24, 2004, 03:55 PM

Sorry to screw over the settler factory.

I built Emerits when the settler finally stopped. Since it was on go-to orders I figured the last leader had sent it to a pre-agreed upon site.

Agreed, we want to protect our advantage on Writing to the last.

When I checked the dot-map we were already off from what had been proposed so I figured we were in "free-form" mode.

Do what you want regarding turns. Ya'll have been keeping a pretty good pace.

Rik Meleet

Jul 24, 2004, 05:03 PM

And Rick, it seem like I disagree with you so much, it's because your posts are so thought provoking ;) . Besides, I do agree with everything that I didn't comment on...I have a thick skin, I can take a lot of critisism. That is 1 part that is needed being a mod. I don't mind and I'm not easily offended.

If the team wants, I can take it.

Just don't mess up my name. It's Rik, not Rick ...

BigNHuge

Jul 24, 2004, 06:39 PM

Go ahead RIK. take it buddy

SJ Frank

Jul 25, 2004, 03:27 AM

Yes Rik :blush: , please take the game.

Rik Meleet

Jul 25, 2004, 06:37 AM

I will; hopefully within the next 24 hours.

Rik Meleet

Jul 25, 2004, 12:17 PM

Playing ...

Rik Meleet

Jul 25, 2004, 01:34 PM

IHT:
Guimarães needs exactly 20 shields for a temple -> poprushed it.
Switch Lissabon back to settler. Sagred to barracks.

IBT: Oporto worker -> worker
Guimarães temple -> Pyramids

[1] 1350 BC. Curragh spots dark blue borders.

IBT: Ivory-road completed.
Emerita warrior -> granary

[2] 1325 BC. Found Leiria. Starts warrior
Send warrior from Emerita to Guimarães. Scouting warrior finds more Ivory. SoZ needs hurrying. Curragh meets the Germans. They are up Iron working, but down Alphabet, pottery, The Wheel and Ceremonial burial. Rik smells trade !

Sell Alphabet to them for Iron Working + their whole treasury (14 gold). We have Iron fairly close; a few tiles SW of Emerita. Byz have learned writing... Byz most likely go for MapMaking to get their UU.
Switch Oporto from worker to settler; we need to grab a lot of sites ASAP.

IBT: Germany isn't too happy with our trespassing curragh. Why you !!! It gave you the alphabet !! O.K. just passing, just passing.
Sumerians start Oracle.

[3] 1300 BC. uneventful turn.

IBT: Lissabon grows to size 4, finishes settler and jumps back to size 2. Starts another settler.

[4] 1275 BC. We reach the north-west of our continent (I can no longer call it an island).

[5] 1250 BC. Keep MM-ing cities.

[6] 1225 BC. Warrior reaches Guimarães, I can now down lux to 10 %. Lower Sci to 70%, still getting Philosophy in 4, but at +4gpt instead of -3gpt. MM cities.

IBT: Oporto grows to size 5, finishes settler and drops to size 3. starts worker.
Coimbra warrior -> warrior
Leiria warrior -> warrior

[7] 1200 BC. Sending Leiria's warrior to Iron-city location. Coimbra's fortifies. Now I can up science to 90%, shaving 1 turn off of Philo-research. Lux to 0%. Mongols know writing now as well.

[8] 1175 BC. Moving settlers to their locations. Philo in 1 and none of the civs we know have Philo yet.

IBT: Philo is learned, choose expensive Code-of-Laws as new tech and ...
We learn it !! We are the first. Next tech: Maths for SoZ.
Sagres barracks -> spear

[9] Found Évora, our Iron-city. starts warrior. Scout finds goody hut !

IBT: Germany wants our curragh out. OK. England wants our scout out. OK
Lissabon settler -> settler
Oporto worker -> worker

[10] Found Braga -> starts worker. Moved the settler in Lissabon across the river.
Scout pops the hut and gets 50 gold.

---------------
Next player can decide what to do with the Lissabon settler. There are soe tech-trades possible (Mongols have horesback-riding) but I do not consider them useful. We have no horses and Byz is likely to finish MapMaking sooner or later. By careful MM-ing of Lissabon you can get settlers there in 6 turns.
Size 2: 2 turns of irrigated cows and 1 turn of mined BG. => city grows. Then just have the city 3 turns on 6 shields => city grows to size 4, finishes settler immediately and drops back to 2, restarting the chain.

Oporto can be a 2 turn worker-pump, if we mine the new wheat. It gets 10 food in 2 turns + 8 shields. The growing to size 3 gives it 2 extra shields => worker done and back to size 2.

Improve the Guimarães area; it's our SoZ-site. Send some warriors there from Coimbra for extra MP.

Good Luck !

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/minimap_1125_bc_small.JPG (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/minimap_1125_bc_big.JPG)
Click image for larger version.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/core_1125_bc_small.JPG (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/core_1125_bc_big.JPG)
Click image for larger version.

The Save 1125 BC. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01_1125BC.SAV)

jb1964

Jul 26, 2004, 08:46 AM

Well done!

Glad to have captured Philo first.

BigNHuge

Jul 26, 2004, 05:01 PM

Back with Civ!! :) Got it now so i will play right now. Copied the notes to remember everything. P.S. :goodjob: on Philo!

BigNHuge

Jul 26, 2004, 06:24 PM

Ok just finished.

Turn [0]- Take a look around at our land mass, power, size and diplomacy. I would think our enemies will demand soon.

Turn [1]- Iroquios start Oracle. England gets MM. Luckly they are willing to give us MM + 28g for Writing. Great deal for us! Micromanage cities to Rik's instructions. SoZ in 58 turns. Currency in 28.

Turn [2]- Coimbra Warrior--> Barracks. Leiria Warrior--> Worker. Uneventful Turn.

Turn [3]- Oporto Worker--> Worker. every three turns is nice. Iroquios start Pyramids. Mongols start SoZ. Might need to check into that in near future. Wont do it now though. The city has irrigated sugar and a lot of hills. So i dont think its entirely worked for shields yet. Our SoZ in 42. Will me new civ next turn. Most likely Korea.

Turn [4]- Evora Warrior--> Barracks. Sagres Spearman--> Spearman. Hes going to a new city spot. Meet Korea. They are down mysticism, MM, and Writing. (CoL and Philo also :) Thanx philo!) No trade possible.

Turn [5]- Uneventful. Nothing new here.

Turn [6]- Iroquios demand writing. They outnumber us greatly in military most likely so we will cave for now. They shall pay dearly for this. Lissabon Settler--> Settler. Oporto Worker--> Worker. No new AI techs. Nothing else eventful.

Turn [7]- Lagos Barracks--> Spearman. Leiria Worker--> Worker. Nothing eventful/No new AI techs.

Turn [8]- Found Faro. Set to temple. A spearman is on the way. No special things here again.

Turn [9]- Several city changes. Micro management. Scouting, etc. No new techs our anything.

Turn [10]- Spain finishes The Oracle. Only the Byzannties change a build :). No new builds. Great news. Well these were my turns.
For the next player- Keep staying the course. We have set our selfs up for a good jump on the SoZ and getting good veteran units. Settler/Warrior pair in a north city. Was going east to oasises but Iroquios get them.

Here is the pic and the save.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_825bc.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_875bc.SAV)

SJ Frank

Jul 27, 2004, 03:31 AM

I'm back, and I've got it

SJ Frank

Jul 27, 2004, 05:39 AM

In the year 875 BC, our game just became a tiny bit more interesting

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-SoZ.jpg

The barbaric Mongols, some how, were able to turn their half-complete pile of heathen junk known as the Oracle into the Statue of Zeus.

Upon sighting this monstrosity, I call forth a council of the Portuguese princes, where I will need input regarding what to do with our wonder pre-build.

I here by list 3 options in order of preference:

1) Swap to granary right now, wasting 6 shields, followed by a barrack, then start building units.

PRO: Get ready for war now, potentially least wasteful of shields.

CON: We get no wonder

2) Swap to a palace pre-build for the Sun Tzu's Art of War, then SLOW the pre-build down so that we have at least 40 turns before it runs out.

PRO: chance to get a very nice wonder for our theme

CON: If the wonder cascade isn’t broken by then, we’ll have no chance. If the AI don’t research Feudalism in time, we’ll have no chance. There is just a great chance to loose a lot of shield for nothing.

3) Swap to a palace pre-build, speed it up, and hoping to get any one of the Ancient Age wonders that are left.

PRO: chance to get a wonder

CON: none of the other AA wonders are very useful to us, and the chances of getting them are not good, IMO.

4) Any other ideas…

Rik Meleet

Jul 27, 2004, 06:15 AM

@ SJ Frank. There are 2 other AA wonders I like, Mausolleum of Maussollos and Great Library. We still have a monopoly on Philosophy and the AI doesn't research literacy often. I think we still have a good chance of nailing a Wonder in that city. Currency is learned in about 11 turns and Literacy in about 13 more. 24 turns is fast enough to make sure we'll hold on to a monopoly on some techs. And when Guimarães grows (where is that 2nd warrior??) and is improved, the building pace just quickens.

BigNHuge

Jul 27, 2004, 11:11 AM

About that second warrior, i accidently sent him to Lissabon. Sorry. Well this is a terrible blow. I say there are 4 AA Wonders I like.

1.) Great Library.

Pro- No research=more money for units=The Republic. Another backward wont get it and become a world power.
Con- It really only seems like the Mongols and the Byzanties can keep up with us in tech at the moment. Some civs dont have the basic techs yet i.e. Alphabet, Pottery. If we snag the GL, odds are we wont pop techs very well. If memory serves correct we are ahead of everyone 2 techs. (Philo/CoL.)

2.) The Temple of Artimes.

Pro- Culture for our cities. We wont need to build culture. Can focus on building units in our front cities, and infastructure/prebuild for another wonder in back cities.
Con- It ends at Education. Then its only with a few gpt.

3.) The Hanging Gardens.

Pros- Gives us 3 happy or content (cant remember) in the city its built, 1 in all others. And its good until Steam Power.
Con- It needs Monarchy which would take a 30 turn research at least.

4.) The Pyramids. (Maybe)

Pro- Granary in all cities. Plan and simple.
Con- Someone either already has it or will get it within 10 turns.

Or we could go to Fuedilism and pray. But that would not happen. We are still 4 techs back of Middle Ages. (Currency, Construction, Poly, HBR)

Thoughts/Comments?

BigNHuge

Jul 27, 2004, 11:16 AM

Also its ok if they do have SoZ. Because the AI Always keeps ACs in there Capital. So we could take a few cities with 3 pronged attacks and sue for peace. But that wouldnt be the situation until we run right over those pesky Iroquios for some dang horses! Portugul WILL prevail or die trying!

:ar15: the Iroquios. :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: the rest. :lol: itll be ok.

jb1964

Jul 27, 2004, 01:49 PM

I'm voting for granery and racks. We need to keep the Iroquois from strongarming us out of any more techs as well as getting ready to kill them.

jb1964 <------ On deck
Rik Meleet <------ Played befor BnH
BigNHuge <------ Just Played
SJ Frank <------ Playing

BigNHuge

Jul 27, 2004, 01:52 PM

Ok thats a good choice too, but i do want a Sun Tzu's. This will combat the large number of Mongolian veteran 5/5 ACs. Plus, We should start considering when we would like to hit the Iroquios cities.

Rik Meleet

Jul 27, 2004, 03:47 PM

I won't be able to play anymore till about August 9th. I'm on holiday. Skip me please.

BigNHuge

Jul 27, 2004, 05:15 PM

Ok will skip.

Heres the line up.

Rik------> Skipped till August 9th
BigNHuge------> Just Played
SJ Frank------> Playing
jb1964------> Next

SJ Frank

Jul 27, 2004, 05:40 PM

Enjoy your holiday Rik, we'll keep your seat warm for you.

Sounds like JB voted for Granary, BigNHuge likes Sun Tzu's and Rik prefers MoM or the GL. I think I've got the tie breaking vote then :lol:

I agree with BigNHuge in that Sun Tzu will be very useful for us, but my instinct tell me that our pre-build in Guimarães is too early for Sun Tzu. Our palace pre-build is only 300 shields. A good wonder building town will average 10 spt, than means we should start our pre-build roughly 30 turn before we plan to get Feudalism.

Another part of the Sun Tzu puzzle is the AI wonder cascade. This being Emperor difficulty, we'll need a good head start on the AI if we want any wonders. If the current batch of wonders complete within the next 10-20 turns, it will cause the next set of AI wonder to start too soon, then our chances of getting Sun Tzu will not be good.

The wonder cascade is not something that we can control, but it is something that we can watch for. For example, assuming that the current cascade is broken, if we start our pre-build, and 5 turns later 6 AIs start building the Hanging Garden, we might as well forget about Sun Tzu's, because that 2nd best HG build will becomes Sun Tzu. However, if the AIs start Hanging Garden before the current cascade is broken, then we may get a clear shot at Sun Tzu's, because all the wonders before Sun Tzu will probably be eaten up by the cascade.

My plan is to stop the current pre-build in Guimarães, and start another prebuild in Emerita after build a temple first. I won't start building fighting units yet. We can't connect our iron for another dozen turns at least. First and formost, I will start pre-building for marketplaces where ever I can, then after currency is researched, I will research Republic at our best rate (debatable, republic or monarchy? I want to hear your comments. Since we have marketplaces, I'm favoring Republic).

I will finish my turns later tonight. Mean while, I'm still open to suggestions.

BigNHuge

Jul 28, 2004, 12:13 AM

ok. well i think if we are getting those marketplaces we have to go republic. they wont have the same affect in monarchy. as for building fighting units for attacking, here are my thoughts.

We will need a fairly large amount of units to even start to dent our continent. Im thinking we should start our attack ASAP when Fuedilism comes in. Maybe a large scale upgrade complete with MI and catapults (later trebs). We will need at least 30 of each. My thoughts are that we can have a 2 pronged attack into the Iroquios homeland. 1 would consist of 6 veteran spear, 20 medival infantry and 20 trebs. 2 would 3 vet spear and 10 of the others. A total of 69 units.

Well that would be a good idea.

Also, I think that we can fit a good 5-7 cities in our back/western area. We definantly settle that ASAP. Never know when the AI will get a galley and get one there.

When we do start building for war, we should have the northern cities focus on military while the back cities produce infastructure. This is obvious, of course.

Thoughts/Comments?

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: the Iroquios!!! :cool:

SJ Frank

Jul 28, 2004, 03:53 AM

Reign of Prince Francis the II

pre-flight - 875 BC

Looking through the cities, I change the entertainer in Coimbra to scientist, saving one turn off of Currency.

I also turn up science to 100%, saving another turn. We are now losing -6 gpt, but the treasury can handle it.

Checking diplomacy, we can get HBR from Iros for Math, do we help them? no way!

I also wake the 2 workers cleaning up vocanic ashes near Emerita (22 worker turns to clean up a tile that won't be used), and send them to road the iron mountain.

IBT - Well well, the Mongos build the SoZ from the Orale cascade. We never had a chance.

turn 1 - 850 BC

scouts and boats move. We contact the Incans and Arabs, who are on the same continent as the Koreans. They are up poly but down writing. I will trade with them later.

Move the settler that was in Largos towards the incense hill on the coast.

Emerita to Temple, Guimaraes to Granary, as discussed.

Oporto swap to warrior, with another lux coming online in 2 turns, that city can grow a bit.

Trade: Writing to Abu for Poly + 126 gold, no other deals, Incans are researching Writing though.

Then spend some cash to build an embassy with Mongols. They could be an ally come time for war, and I want to see whom they have contact with.

turn 2 - 825 BC

Lissabon settler->curragh, I want to grow Lissabon a bit too. The new settler heads west.

Incans get writing by themselves, should have traded with them. no new techs this round.

turn 3 - 800 BC

turn 4 - 775 BC

Oporto is now a 2-turn worker factory at size 5.

Bismark got HBR this turn. We take it along with all of his gold for Pottery + CB

turn 5 - 750 BC

Lissabon: curragh->barrack. Lissabon can operate at size 4-6, so I grow it some more.

Trade: Math + HRB to Theodora for Map Making + 14 gold, finally!

Sargres immediately switches to harbor, to be helped with a chop.

turn 6 - 730 BC

found the city of incense coast.

borders of two new civs are sighted

after a chop, Sagres will finish its harbor in 2 turns, the new curragh will upgrade first before sailing

turn 7 - 710 BC

found Sao Paulo, starts on courthouse, for lack of a better build, veto-able (more like a veto please :crazyeye: )

contact Cathage and Spain, both are behind us in techs

turn 8 - 690 BC

Byzantines start the Great Lighthouse, and Germany finishes the Pyramids. That's fine, better Germany than some other really strong civilization.

turn 9 - 670 BC

Incans cascade to the ToA. Byzantines switches to the Great Lighthouse and completes it. :eek: But that's it! That's all for the wonder cascades.

The only wonders under construction are the ToAs by the Incans, the Spainards and the Arabs. The Incan ToA is left-over from the Pyramids, so their ToA will complete sooner than the others.

Currency -> Republic in 23 turns, 100% science, -8gpt

Several cities swap to Marketplace.

Emerita finishes temple, starts on a palace pre-build.

turn 10 - 650 BC

nothing interesting...

Notes to next leader:

The reg warrior S of Oporto should go into Lissabon next turn.

All builds are veto-able.

Lissabon can now oscillate between size 4 and 6, building sword/settler pairs. After the current barrack completes, you need to start it on a settler right away. We have only 4 more city sites left.

Oporto's worker farm needs management after completion of each worker, just make sure that you zoom into the city view when the worker production prompt comes up, and move the citizen from the forrest to the roaded-river-grassland tile.

If we could help it, we would like the Great Wall and the MoM to fall with the current wonder cascade. It means that if the ToA hasn't been build yet, and we got our hands on Construction, consider trading Philosophy and Construction to the civs that are building the ToA.

There is a horse north of the Iro's territory near the conscript warrior. If we could block the Iroquis from settling it, it would be very helpful. Ideally, we would like the English to settle that site, but that's probably just wishful thinking...

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-650bc.SAV), jb1964 is next.

SJ Frank

Jul 28, 2004, 04:30 AM

We will need a fairly large amount of units to even start to dent our continent. Im thinking we should start our attack ASAP when Fuedilism comes in. Maybe a large scale upgrade complete with MI and catapults (later trebs). We will need at least 30 of each. My thoughts are that we can have a 2 pronged attack into the Iroquios homeland. 1 would consist of 6 veteran spear, 20 medival infantry and 20 trebs. 2 would 3 vet spear and 10 of the others. A total of 69 units.

Boy, that's a big army. We will build troops until we can't support them anymore, then fight until we have no more troops :lol:

Also, I think that we can fit a good 5-7 cities in our back/western area. We definantly settle that ASAP. Never know when the AI will get a galley and get one there.

If we let Lissabon handle all the settler duties, it will take about 30 turns to fill the land at 6 turns per settler. May be we could take Oporto off worker duties for a few cycles?

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: the Iroquios!!! :cool:

BigNHuge

Jul 28, 2004, 08:21 AM

Well i put that much so we knew we could have some leftovers incase of a Mongolian attack. They are prone to do that.

jb1964

Jul 28, 2004, 09:44 AM

Kids will be going to bed early tonight since tomorrow is swimming championships. This means I can get on the computer. :)

Didn't download. Didn't play. Expect posting early Saturday morning.

BigNHuge

Jul 29, 2004, 10:25 AM

Ok we can wait.

BigNHuge

Jul 30, 2004, 10:38 AM

We should discuss strategy soon. For when we hit the eventual attack periods

SJ Frank

Jul 30, 2004, 03:57 PM

I haven't given much thought about the attack. While scaning through the map for resources, I thought that with horse being so important for our conquest theme, and being so important to deny the Iroquois and the Mongols, we should make acquiring horse a priority. Also, if we could capture both Irons from the Iroquois, it should allow us to finish them off at our leisure.

SJ Frank

Jul 30, 2004, 04:47 PM

This is slightly off-topic...

I just found out that in order to use a custom avatar, I need to have a post count of at least 300 :eek: . Looks like it's going to be a while before I can exchange Gandhi for a real madman :lol: .

... and I have my own place to host the image too...

jb1964

Jul 30, 2004, 09:13 PM

Got it.

Computer's acting odd, mouse keeps flying off in odd directions, but I'll deal w/ it.

found Sao Paulo, starts on courthouse, for lack of a better build, veto-able (more like a veto please )

:lol:

If we could help it, we would like the Great Wall and the MoM to fall with the current wonder cascade. It means that if the ToA hasn't been build yet, and we got our hands on Construction, consider trading Philosophy and Construction to the civs that are building the ToA.

:cool: Never thought of that before. Very clever.

jb1964

Jul 31, 2004, 12:50 AM

The Save... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-450bc.SAV)

Still can't figure out how to use attachments.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Port3.jpg [IMG]

The reign of “JB the Gaseous” begins…. Servant! Pass me another carbonated beverage!

Pre-flight, Turn 95, 650 BC
Nice set up. This is going to need MM’ing to a large to degree. Must pay attention.

IBT: Abu wants us outta his space. Damn, these guys are ignorant.

Turn 1, Turn 96, 630 BC
Lissabon, racks – settler. Population pissed. MP arrives and tells ‘em to shut up and get in line. Great timing!
I would really like those horses to the north. Not sure how we’ll be able to hold it so far from base. Keeping one iron from the Iroquois could be done but the other will have to be done by culture expansion or a simple pillage post war declaration.

IBT: Nuttin’
Turn 2, Turn 97, 610 BC
Oporto, worker – worker.
Evora, racks – sword

IBT: Zilch
Turn 3, Turn 98, 590 BC

IBT: Nada
Turn 4, Turn 99, 570 BC
Lissabon, settler – spear (will change to sword when iron hooked up)
Oporto, worker – worker
Sagres, harbor – spear
Writing for 78g to Korea.
No other trades to be had. Construction yet to be discovered.

IBT: Zed
Turn 5, Turn 100, 550 BC
Sagres switched to sword
Concerned about Emerita. It’s growing to 7 in 4 turns. No more MP benefits to be had. This is a pre-build for what?
No trades.

IBT: Squat
Turn 6, Turn 101, 530 BC
Guimaraes, market to ??? At 9spt I don’t like my build options as they all waste many shields. We’ll go for a racks and see what we get w/ growth to 6 next turn.
Coimbria hooked up. Scientist put to real work.

IBT: Zzzzzz
Turn 7, Turn 102, 510 BC
Lissabon, spear – settler. (Could have sworn I changed that to a sword)
Pop a hut and get Literature. Damn, I have been getting a steady diet of barbs. No other Civ has Literature.
Settler gets to just North of tobacco.
Lagos gets a nice road to generate another gold

IBT: Zero
Turn 8, Turn 103, 490 BC
The Sumerians are brain dead as they are still w/o Alphabet.
We’re still far ahead in tech. Nothing to trade unless we want to give away a tech for a song.
Oporto, worker - worker
Found Smokes (harbor). Spear on the way for MP duty.
No deal.

IBT: Yawn
Turn 9, Turn 104, 470 BC
Hire a geek in Emerita and Lagos.

IBT: Bedtime
Turn 10, Turn 105, 450 BC
Inca build ToA. No cascade.
Lissabon, settler – sword, move in workers to shop south of Lissabon to finish sword in 3.

Wrap-up: Didn't need as much MM'ing as I thought.

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 08:58 AM

Got it will play now.

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 09:44 AM

In turn 2, England got Construction. What are we willing to trade for it.

We can give Lit, CoL, and Philo straight up for it, saving currency and Poly. Or we can wait for Republic.

I wont finish until we get an answer here. Big part of the game. FEEDBACK PLZ :lol:

SJ Frank

Jul 31, 2004, 11:55 AM

The reign of “JB the Gaseous” begins…. Servant! Pass me another carbonated beverage!

:lol:

Lissabon, spear – settler. (Could have sworn I changed that to a sword)

Actually, you were right for not changing that spear to sword, because I miss-counted :blush: . Lissabon at size 4 can make a max of 28 shield in 3 turns, and requires quite a bit of MM to do so. It is not enough for a sword, so a spear is the best that it can do.

Turn 10, Turn 105, 450 BC
Inca build ToA. No cascade.

In turn 2, England got Construction.

Well, we were that close to pull off that coup.

Since England has Construction at monopoly, we definitely do not want to buy-in right now. Also, we would like to delay the other civs from having a wonder tech for as long as possible. It helps our Sun Tzu chances.

I like our position :goodjob:

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 12:27 PM

Another question, when we get Republic should i revolt right away?

jb1964

Jul 31, 2004, 01:24 PM

Since England has Construction at monopoly, we definitely do not want to buy-in right now. Also, we would like to delay the other civs from having a wonder tech for as long as possible. It helps our Sun Tzu chances.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Not that it's not sound, I just have never focused on the wonder management aspect of the game before

It think you're saying that if there's not a wonder tech to be had that the other Civ's won't be banking sheilds for the one wonder and that when one Civ completes that wonder then we avoid the eventual cascade.

Hmmm, sounds good but I'll have to take a closer look at the other wonders available in between.

I would revolt to Rep straight away unless we're on the verge of completing a particularly important build.

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 03:37 PM

alright will finish up tonight.

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 05:46 PM

Well i take a look at all the basics. Still 2 more civs out there. We are way down in land mass but are up in alot of others. We around the middle in score. I like our position. :)
Also I note are we going to support all these soldiers and war in Republic? Thats another aspect we should consider.
Let the reign of BigNHuge take place.

IBT- Guimaraes Rax--> Sword. Lagos Sword--> Sword. Evora Sword--> Sword. Well Spain is officially the fastest builder in the world! They start and finish the Hanging Gardens in a matter of 1 turn!

Turn [1] 430BC- The only tech an AI has that we dont is Spain's Monarchy. Big deal. We will have a monopoly on Republic. Notice we can only support 5 more units. Might want to start disbanding units we dont need. Notice some new borders. Most likely France. Nothing really super special here though.

IBT- Oporto Worker--> Settler. We need to fill that back part for extra military. Hire a scientist in Guimaraes. Can now get republic in 6 at 90% by losing only 7gpt. England obtains Construction. Will not trade just yet.

Turn [2] 410BC- Nothing special here.

IBT- Lissabon Sword--> Settler.

Turn [3] 390BC- Those "new" borders I saw were Incan borders. My bad. Micromange some cities. Scout and nothing that special. No one else w/ Construction.

IBT- Incans ask us to leave. We apoligize and say we shall leave soon.

Turn [4] 370BC- Once again another snorer turn.

IBT- Guimaraes Sword-->Sword. English begin the GW.

Turn [5] 350BC- I just had a good idea. I hope you dont mind i did this. I noticed we had more land then the English. I established an embassy. We can now do this trade. ROP, CoL, Lit for Construction, 8 g, ROP. Now they still must research Philo, Currency and Polythesiem to enter next age. They are the closest science wise to us. We enter the Middle Ages. I hope you arent to mad. Also, for some reason, it kicked our rate to get Republic to 3 turns instead of 4.

IBT- Lissabon Settler-->Sword. Leiria Market-->Temple. The people show there love for their prince by expanding his love shack.... er Palace. New shag rugs.... Er grass is installed.

Turn [6] 330BC- Republic in 2 with 3gpt coming in. Much scouting. Nothing else real special. No real jumps in techs. Smaller countries getting things like writing, and Sumeria has Alphabet now.

IBT- Oporto Settler-->Worker. Spain begins MoM.

Turn [7] 310BC- Build new city. Find Russia (Red???). They are down the same visible techs as everyone else. No trade possible.

IBT- Republic comes in. The next turn will surely be a turn of Portuguese riots. Only Lissabon goes under though as I am quick enough to get the other cities under control.

Turn [8] 290BC- 4 turn Anarchy. Blessed really there. Also I have noticed that Mongolia is using there AC to go w/ Settlers to form new cities. Nothing else here. We are making 12gpt through taxmen.

IBT- Inca start the GW.

Turn [9] 270BC- Nothing. Its amazing how Anarchy slows you down.

IBT- Nothing.

Turn [10] 250BC- Nothing at all. No new AI techs. Everything normal. Here is the Pic/Save. A new Republic established in 2. :goodjob:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_250BC.jpg
The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_250BC.SAV)

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 05:47 PM

Go get em SJ!

SJ Frank

Jul 31, 2004, 09:08 PM

I've got it. Playing right now

BigNHuge

Jul 31, 2004, 09:51 PM

A bit off of this succession game, but when the next SGOTM comes around would you guys like to be a team? It always looks like fun.

SJ Frank

Aug 01, 2004, 03:04 AM

A bit off of this succession game, but when the next SGOTM comes around would you guys like to be a team? It always looks like fun.

I will take a look at the SGOTM forum at get back to you... but first, the game.

You said you wanted war? You said you wanted to plan for war?

Well, ready or not, here it comes :eek:

====================================

Turn 0 250 BC

Checking F2, we can trade with Mongols and Iroquois. I think we have a sea lane to the Byzantines, who have build the Great Lighthouse... but they don't have a single harbor :lol: . That's a situation I will watch diligently.

2 turns to Republic, and Guimaraes is starving! It is perfect timing to let it riot for one turn, saving some food.

I also change all taxmen to scientist -- we're going to research Feudalism, might as well get started right now.

move a few units, mostly spreading some of the MP units around, to be able to get all fighting units to the front line.

Press Enter.

IBT: Incans want us to leave. We tell them we're just passing through.
Iroquois found two cities right next to our units.

* * *

Turn 1 230 BC

A few units auto-move. I guess I'm just not used to it. I wake the two auto moving settlers. Otherwise, its the Anarchy, there isn't much to do.

IBT Iroquois start the MoM

* * *

Turn 2 210 BC

The Portuguese nation is now a glorious republic.

I went through all cities, putting all citizens back in place. In the end, we need 20% lux, can only run 30% science for Feudalism in 31 turns. Our pre-build will last 19-22 turns.

There is, however, a wine available from Spain. The coastal trade route goes through Iroquois terriory, I'm not sure if us declaring war on the Iroquois will break the trade route. Since we're not fighting the Iroquois for another 20 turns, I will get this Lux.

Can some more knowledgable players please enlighten me on this situation?

Since Spain, Zulus, Sumerians and Byzantines are on the same continent, I'm going to assume that they know each other. Sumer is way behind in tech. Byzantines have math. So I'll trade math for the Wine. Zulus has gold to offer for math, so I'll take that too:

Math + 5gpt + 2 gold to Spain for Wine
Math to Zulu for 4gpt + 234 gold

The Incans, Arabs and Koreans also share a continent, Incans are the most advance civ in that group (by Construction and Currency over Arabia and Construction over the Koreans), but Abu just got Monarchy. So naturally, I step in to broker for some money:

Currency + Construction + 39 gold to Abu for Monarchy
Monarchy to Inca for all of his 281 gold
Korea has only 20 gold to offer, so they get nothing

Carthage is to the south of the Arab continent and I don't know where the Russians are, so I don't trade with them right now.

The Germens and the Aztecs are stuck on their own island. They get nothing either.

The end result of the trade is that our lux can go down to 10%, science up to 50%, Feudalism in 20 turns while losing 22 gpt, with 576 gold in the bank. The timing should be fine with the Sun Tzu pre-build.

Speaking of the pre-build, why did we chop the forrest around Emerita. You know that forrest chops do not help palace and wonders, right? And we sure could use the forrest shields.

I move most of our excess unit to Largos, since it is under culture pressure now. Worker also migrate from the Emerita area towards Leiria area, which needs worker turns.

I disband our scouts and conscript warrior to save gold, we're now at -16 gpt.

Oporto switches to a settler, due in 4, otherwise, no changes.

Boy, this turn took a long time...

IBT Arabs start the Great Wall

* * *

Turn 3 190 BC

Berga: Marketplace -> temple
Sagres: after thinking about it, I switch its temple to Marketplace. This city does not need a temple until after the Aquaduct, and due to the Mountain mining going on around it. It can afford to build the Aquaduct after building a market place first.

A few swordsmen also complete this turn, more are ordered

-29gpt, Feud in 18.

IBT: oh, this is interesting, the Iroquois are threatening us for Polytheism, just as our 5 swordsmen are concentrated around Largos...

I tell him to stuff it, and he declares war !!!

* * *

Turn 4 170 BC

The game is on. :ar15: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

A Iro Sword show up near Fargo.

First, the domestic actions: a forrest chop near Evora uncovers a BG. Good, mining is ordered. Braga switchs to Sword. Fargo will waste too many shields to switch to wall now, so I hurry its temple this turn. I also wake the worker near Fargo and send him back. Largo is switched to a catapult and hurried.

I then pay Temujin Polytheism for an alliance. He will pay me 32 gold on top of it too.
Liz will take 8gpt for an alliance, deal!

Our force gathered in Largos include 7 vet swords, 3 spears, one vet warrior to be upgraded, and a cat to be completed. That should be enough to at least hold the line.

The war declaration does break the trade vs. Spain. I don't know, does she take a rep hit? The war happiness though, substituts for the lux.

IBT: Inca demands HBR, do you even know where Portugal is? I tell him to stuff it, and he declares war!

Another sword and a warrior shows up near our borders.

* * *

Turn 5 150 BC

To take care of the Incan war, I build an embassy with the Arabs, they are building the GW, due in 28 at 8spt, has a temple, 3 spears and 2 cats in the city. 70% science, 30% tax, and no resources to speak of.

I also build embassy with the Koreans, Seoul is size 1, building settler, has Iron.

I buy Korea in against the Incans for construction. The Arabs want more than 15gpt, and that's too greedy for me. All I wanted was a war on the other continent.

Braga gets a short rush via spear, so the sword will finish in 2 turns.

Some swords complete, and more are ordered up, we have 10 swords now.

Fargo will be attacked next turn by a swords, but it has 2 vet spears inside, so it will hold. Renforcement will arrive next turn.

I also shut down science for one turn to collect more money.

IBT: now Abu demands Philosophy from me. I don't mind adding some more war happiness, but he actually backs off. Iros sword attack and beats our vet spear. More Iros swords show up.

* * *

Turn 5 130 BC

Cat fires near Fargo and misses. Oporto finishes the last settler, starts Marketplace. Lissabon is on a sword/worker 4 turn cycle.

Our stacks of swords and spears move into Fargo and Largos this turn.

IBT: we lose another spear at Fargo. An Iro galley shows up.

* * *

Turn 6 110 BC

Wall completes in Fargo.
Dial down lux to 0%, hire scientist in Guimaraes. Feudalism in 18 at +8gpt.
Send a stack of 5 swords + 1 spear after Akwesasne.
Braga completes a sword, reminding me that it does not have a barrack. :wallbash: It starts a cat.

IBT: Two Iro swords attack, we win both battle with help from the Wall :) . The Iro galley continues down the coastline.

* * *

Turn 7 90 BC

Found a new city in the tundra. Stack advances on Akwesasne.
Lissabon grows, so Lux back up to 10%, MM accordingly.
No units complete this turn, and the front is quiet.

IBT: So that's where their forces are, the Iros attack the Akwesasne stack with an archer and 2 swords, wining 2 of of 3 battles.

* * *

Turn 8 70 BC

Our Akwesasne stack attack, going 4 for 4, taking the city, leaving one red-lined sword defending against a spear next turn though.

Lissabon: sword->worker

IBT: The Iros spear do not attack! He moves into neutrual territory. And their galley turns back?

* * *

Turn 9 50 BC

Finally, some new info from the scouting galleys: The Zulus are at war with some one. Probably one of the missing civs.

Our stack steps into Akwesasne, securing it.

A new cat fires at the Iro Spear and hits!

IBT: a lot of Iros warriors move up to Akwesasne. One of them pillages the road.

* * *

Turn 10 30 BC

Cat fires-hits and Sword defeats the Iros spear.

Our swords start killing warriors at Akwesasne, losing one sword in the process. I leave the last warrior in order not to expose our sword to the Iros swords.

====================================

NOTES:

There is a single vet swords in the southern tundra playing zone defense.

The GL in Emerita is the pre-build for Sun Tzu. I think we have Sun Tzu in the bags. After feudualism, consider shutting off research and buying tech. We have alot more marketplaces then libraries (the exact number of libraries is somewhere around zero :rolleyes: ).

The two workers near Akwesasne were intended to build roads there, but we should probably hide them until the 3 Iroquois swords are delt with.

I've been doing a 4-worker-1-sword cycle in Lissabon. The idea is to farm worker out of Lissabon until it is down to size 4 with no food in the box, then spend 3 turns to build the sword, followed by the workers. It requires MM almost every turn to get it to +5 food. You can, of course, do with this city as you see fit. I'm just using one of the possibilities. For example, I think it can get to 15 spt at size 7, for a sword every other turn.

jb, may you live in interesting times :lol:

Here is the front:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH-Iroquois-Front-30BC.jpg

And the Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-30BC.SAV)

SJ Frank

Aug 01, 2004, 03:07 AM

I think I also played an extra turn! Notice the 2 turn 5's.

How about I just take 1 less turn during the next rotation.

BigNHuge

Aug 01, 2004, 09:11 AM

dont worry about it. Ill take 9 in my next rotation. So you can keep 10

BigNHuge

Aug 01, 2004, 09:22 AM

Speaking of the pre-build, why did we chop the forrest around Emerita. You know that forrest chops do not help palace and wonders, right? And we sure could use the forrest shields.

I chopped them to make it easier to slow down shield production, if needed.

BigNHuge

Aug 01, 2004, 09:25 AM

Didnt think we would be in a position to NEED shields to have an awesome pre-build. Sorry if it screwed us over.

SJ Frank

Aug 01, 2004, 01:58 PM

Didnt think we would be in a position to NEED shields to have an awesome pre-build. Sorry if it screwed us over.

Chopping the forrest wasn't nearly serious enough to "screw us over". Don't worry about it. It's just that those 10 shields per chop were wasted, which could have went to a marketplace or a MDI, after the wonder is done.

dont worry about it. Ill take 9 in my next rotation. So you can keep 10

You know, the screw up is mine, so I'd rather that you didn't play less because of it. If the turn-ending date isn't too important to you, then let me play 9 turns on the next rotation. Our rotations are fast enough that it doesn't make much of a difference. Besides, JB is up next.

I just had a good idea. I hope you dont mind i did this. I noticed we had more land then the English. I established an embassy. We can now do this trade. ROP, CoL, Lit for Construction, 8 g, ROP. Now they still must research Philo, Currency and Polythesiem to enter next age. They are the closest science wise to us. We enter the Middle Ages. I hope you arent to mad. Also, for some reason, it kicked our rate to get Republic to 3 turns instead of 4.

The idea of using the ROP was good. I also put the English embassy to use during my turns. Something that I would have done differently though, is that I would try to delay selling techs to civs on our own continent for as long as possible.

The two basic laws of trading are that 1) you pay double when buying a monopoly tech (monopoly = of all the civs that you know, only one of them knows that tech) , and 2) as more civs that you know knows a particular tech, the price to research/buy that tech goes down.

So the flaw in your trade was 1) you traded for Construction when it was a monopoly tech. If Construction wasn't a monopoly, then we could probably get Construction for one of our monopoly techs, letting the equation work in our favor. Flaw 2) was that you traded with England. By doing that, you made it easier for anyone that knows England to research those techs. As a result, the tech pace of our continent goes up. Since we want to :hammer: our continent, we'd like to keep everybody on it as backward as possible.

What I would have done in that situation, is that I would ask myself: when do I need Construction? The answer: when we come out of Anarchy, and we're getting ready to research Feudalism. So I would have delayed buying in Construction until my turn 2. If by then England still has Construction at monopoly, then all of this is a moot point. Otherwise, I would buy from a civ from another continent. We probably won't attack them until Industrialization, so in the mean time, it's okay if they get to knights 10 turns sooner.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Not that it's not sound, I just have never focused on the wonder management aspect of the game before

It think you're saying that if there's not a wonder tech to be had that the other Civ's won't be banking sheilds for the one wonder and that when one Civ completes that wonder then we avoid the eventual cascade.

Hmmm, sounds good but I'll have to take a closer look at the other wonders available in between.

I think you got the idea. :)

BigNHuge

Aug 01, 2004, 03:05 PM

So the flaw in your trade was 1) you traded for Construction when it was a monopoly tech. If Construction wasn't a monopoly, then we could probably get Construction for one of our monopoly techs, letting the equation work in our favor. Flaw 2) was that you traded with England. By doing that, you made it easier for anyone that knows England to research those techs. As a result, the tech pace of our continent goes up. Since we want to our continent, we'd like to keep everybody on it as backward as possible.

I believe Byzanties have it as well. But i dont remember.

SJ Frank

Aug 02, 2004, 12:10 AM

I believe Byzanties have it as well. But i dont remember.

Aha, my bad. I guess Construction is just that expensive then. When I play solo, I'm usually so far behind at this point that I'm trading for Construction at close to last civ price. I guess it left me with the wrong impression.

SJ Frank

Aug 02, 2004, 01:17 AM

I just took a look at the SGOTM forum -- so it's playing the GOTM as a Succession Game. Sounds fun, I'm game. One thing about PTW though, I hate the RCP thing. I think that it is a blantant exploit of something that the designer didn't intend to put into the game, and that it takes more away from the game than it gives.

It looks like they are playing AWE this month, something I don't have on my resume yet...

jb1964

Aug 02, 2004, 10:40 AM

Isn't "May you live in interesting times." a curse!?

You handled the situation very well. I hope I'm up to par.

None of us should be too worried about an extra turn here or there because this game is going to go on for quite some time.

I'll grab the game this evening and get started.

jb1964

Aug 02, 2004, 10:44 AM

BTW, I'm game for jumping into the SGOTM. I have never played one.

BigNHuge

Aug 02, 2004, 12:04 PM

No i ment the NEXT SGOTM. Not the Rome one now.

BigNHuge

Aug 03, 2004, 09:36 AM

How many sources of iron/horses do the Iroquois have?

SJ Frank

Aug 03, 2004, 02:23 PM

They have 2 Irons, I think both are connected. One is north of their capital, the other is to the northeast, both are at least 2-cities deep. They are not easy to get to.

They have 1 horse in their sphere of influence. What I mean is -- It is in between a few of their cites, but the way their cities are founded, it will take a while to connect the horse. BTW, the horse is way to the north.

I'm going to be out of town for 2 days. I'll be back on Thursday night. Please skip me while I'm gone.

BigNHuge

Aug 03, 2004, 03:03 PM

kk will do.

BigNHuge

Aug 05, 2004, 08:40 AM

JB are you out of town also? Its been almost three days. O.o Just a post would be nice. :lol:

BigNHuge

Aug 05, 2004, 05:06 PM

Jb if you dont post by noon tomorrow, ill skip you. Then when you get back you can take your turn.

SJ Frank

Aug 06, 2004, 02:37 AM

I bet JB was just waiting for me to get back into town, so that I won't miss anything. Right? ;)

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 09:21 AM

Sure, i bet he'll go with that. :lol:

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 11:02 AM

Alright its been a few days, so im gonna take it now. Consider this my Got It.

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 12:15 PM

Did my first 2 turns. Now i have a Texas Hold Em' tournament on PokerStars. Were looking good. When we hold off this advancement, there isnt another coming! :) :) :) :hammer: the Iroquios.

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 01:02 PM

JB if you get back before i finish in the tournament, (Ill post when im done) Post your save/pic(s). Thanks

jb1964

Aug 06, 2004, 03:23 PM

Sorry to stall things out. RL crept up on me.

Let me know when I'm back in the order.

Always feel free to PM me and rattle my cage.

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 04:18 PM

Go after me then jb

BigNHuge

Aug 06, 2004, 04:37 PM

Turn [0] 30BC- Take a look around. Very nice position for us. Iroquios have there work cut out for them. :lol:

IBT- I'll stick to your idea of worker farm/sword. Its a very nice idea. Some movement of Iroquios galley to our south. GJ with the sword. I don't know if you guys know, but there is war in other parts in the world also! Russia is fighting the Zulu.

Turn [1] 10BC- Attacking of Iroquios advancing units is going along with some ok luck. We lose our Elite sword to a redlined veteren sword. Thems the brakes. Worker actions completed. Adcancing Iroquios Swords are destroyed.

IBT- Markets and swords complete. Making more swords/markets/workers.

Turn [2] 10AD- At the turn of the Millenium, we are in somewhat dire straits. The Iroquios are definantly sending more units to reclaim their cities. Took out the first row. Another set of 2 Vet swords and 1 reg spear will come in next.

IBT- Inca and Korea sign a peace treaty. Iroquios split their attack to Faro and Akwasnase. (Murdered the spelling on that i bet.)

Turn [3] 30AD- RNG is smiling upon us! We make an elite swordsman. Kill most of the Swordsmen in our territory and take no casualties. Worker actions and nothing else very special.

IBT- Spain demands Literature. We refuse. She declares War. She can't get to us. No biggie there. Builds and such finish.

Turn [4] 50AD- No unit losses. Iroquios lose 3 sword. Move 1 catapult, 4 swords out of Akwesasne to Allhegney.

IBT- Defending units holding. Times up north will be hard!

Turn [5] 70AD- Switch all tundra cities to defensive units. All done in 1. To hold invasions off. Up north we eliminate all invading swords/archers. No enemies in our territory. Next stop, the mountains near Faro and takng Allhegney.

IBT- Defenders hold. Nothing special.

Turn [6] 90AD- Nothing special. No attacks. An eery calm...

IBT- Iroquios advance more.

Turn [7] 110AD- Attack Iroquios units. Prepare for Iroquios Invasion next turn. Itll be dicey. Other than that nothing special.

IBT- Multiple beginnings of the GW. Iroquios movements.

Turn [8] 130AD- Beef up defense in Faro. Will be hit by 5 reg swords next turn. Both the Incans and the Arabians jump into the MA. Quite late for Emperor. Must be alot of war out there.

IBT- Units around Faro scatter. Mostly into their own land. Galley finally drops off 1 reg sword near town defended by a mere reg warrior. But, 2 vet swords are right there.

Turn [9] 150AD- The Iroquios army is larger then ours. I still havent seen any MW. Good. they do not have a GA yet. We could use one soon. Movements/MM. Kill invading sword down south.

IBT- A sword left in enemy territory kills 2 vet swords on defense. Thx RNG.

Turn [10] 170AD- Move units around, nothing entirely big.

Here is the save. Pics will not load. Request next player at end of his turns show: The front line, the country, and our military thx.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-_170AD.SAV)

BigNHuge

Aug 07, 2004, 12:02 PM

Heres an updated order...

Rik Meleet------>In the Hole (Gone until the 9th i believe)
BigNHuge------>Just Played
SJ Frank------>Up
jb1964------>On Deck

Cant make SJ skip a turn, sorry jb. You are up after him.

Rik Meleet

Aug 07, 2004, 01:56 PM

I'm back. :)

BigNHuge

Aug 07, 2004, 03:12 PM

excellent :)

SJ Frank

Aug 07, 2004, 11:03 PM

Welcome back, Rik!

Since I'm up, this is also a got it.

SJ Frank

Aug 08, 2004, 02:49 PM

Already then, here are my 9 turns. I didn't make as much progress as I wanted, taking only one city. Yet, I started an infrastructure push in the core, deeming us having "enough" units. Was I :smoke: ? I never said I was a good warmonger did I :crazyeye: .

* * *

Turn 0 170 AD

MM cities, change a few tiles here and there, mostly to avoid overflow when shield/food boxes are filled.

Check diplomacy, Arabs and Incans are in the middle ages! Byzanines are one tech away, and they are scientific. Let's hope they don't get Feudalism as their free tech.

Wonder situation: everybody is building the GL, when did they start? Byzanines, Arabs and Incan are also building the Great Wall (others are too, but they are not close to the Feudalism tech).

Tech situation: 2 turns to Feud at +23gpt, I could increase science to get it in 1, but in this case, we actually do not want to research it too early, since that will make it cheaper for the AI's to research it too.

Military:
We appear to have numerical advantage near Akwesasne, I want to try to push forward there.
We have 3 swords around Centralia. I guess will make a bigger stack of swords before we attack, because that city is on a hill.
Near Faro, we're using elite swords to guard the high ground. If we could hold it, it would do well for our kill ratio.

nothing else to do, press enter.

IBT: more Iros swords move up near Akwesasne, so much for our numerical advantage.

* * *

Turn 1 190 AD

a few cities complete their items. Those that lack barracks build cat. Those that were building swords start more swords, except for Largo, which starts a spear.

I retreat the force near Akwesasne, intending to use the cat and plain terran near it for a kill zone, other forcse converge on Centralia. A few troops auto moved. I stop them before they go any further.

And Big, why did you chop the forrest near Emerita again! Now that city is near max size with no shield tile to use.

IBT: Iros move towards Fargo, come on folks, Akwesasne is defended by only a sword, go get it, take the bait.
Incan built the GW, other civ cascade to the GL.

* * *

Turn 2 210 AD

Feudalism comes in. I start a lone scienist effort on Engineering. When Emerita grows to size 12, the scientist will move there.

In Braga and Sagres, I vetoed the military build for an Aqueduct, as both cities are painfully stuck as size 6.

Emerita switches to Sun Tzu, due in 25, though hopfully sooner once I mine over some the irrigations.

IBT: Iros troops move back towards Akwesasne. A reg archer leaves Centralia, where is he going?

* * *

Turn 3 230 AD

More MDIs are build and upgraded. no battles. quiet turn.

* * *

Turn 4 250 AD

Finally, Iros troops advance within range of our cats. The battle is joined.

9 of our cats hit out of 11 tries. All Iros exposed units are injured. A sword attack out of Faro, killing a sword. The city should be safe now. Then our new MDIs attack, killing 3 Iros sword without a scratch. The last Iros sword in left in the field to avoid counter attack. Pike from Largos leaves cities temporarily to cover exposed troops in the field.

Battle of Centralia: Elite sword leading the way, vet sword mopping up. The only 2 defenders are toast, the city is ours :D .

Leiria is somehow just 2 shields short of the next cat, I must have missed the MM somehow. No matter, I'll just swap to granary, due in 7 with growth in 8. (you can see the builder in me creeping in...)

Emerita has grown to pop 12... and is happy! Well, I guess Incense Coast keeps the scientist.

* * *

Turn 5 260 AD

Concentrate forces in Faro, getting ready for a Akwesasne expedition.
Cats fire and hit a few more Iro swords. No attacks though, for fear of counter attack.

The Centralia task force leaves the city, advancing northward. It is lead by an Elite sword and covered by a pikeman.

Build an embassy with the Byzantines. They are in a golden age :eek: . 16spt, MoM and GL, 50% science.

IBT: The Iros appear to be going after Centralia. They send a sword and an archer in that direction. A fresh stack of 4 Iros swords appear from the north.

* * *

Turn 6 270 AD

we bombard the sword and archer stack down, and 2 swords took care of them.

Byzantines are in the Middle ages, they pulled Engineering as their free tech. I think Sun Tzu is safe :goodjob: .

* * *

Turn 7 280 AD

More troop gather near the front.

Roughly half of our economy is paying for the army, so I...

Lissabon starts a marketplace.
Oporto reaches size 10 and starts a temple.
Evora reaches size 5 and starts an aquaduct.

I leave only 4 cities on military, and two of them are border towns squeezing our a cat once every forever :p

* * *

Turn 8 290 AD

Task force Allegheny is formed, consists of 2 pikes and 5 MDI. They move out.

Near Faro, concentrated cat fire took 5 Iros swordsmen down to yellow and red. 4 of them are killed by our swords and MDI, with no loss on our side.

IBT: Byzantine demand Republic. War!
Oops, AI will attack vet Pike with swords, we lose a pike in the Allegheny task force.

* * *

Turn 9 300 AD

Retreat! The Allegheny taskforce will arrive at its destination via the mountain route.

Here is our territory:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-300AD.jpg

The front:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-300AD-Front.jpg

The Allegheny taskforce is in Faro. I'd suggest travelling along the mountain ranges N->NW->W, exposing the force for only 1 turn before attacking Allegheny.

The Centralia taskforce still has some units with movement points left, though they are fortified. I would hold off the attack for this turn. Next turn, if they go near Faro, then we will have cat support. If they go near Centralia, we will be able to attack at the same odds.

And the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BNH01-300AD.SAV