I got the idea of this game from Zwingli's "Zwi2: Sid among the Deities" SG. This game will be at Monarch level with 2 Emperor AIs. Everything else in the game will be normal.

World Size: Standard
Civilization: Random, we got Iroquois
Landmass/Water Percent: Random
Temperature, Climate, Age: Random
Barbarians: Roaming
Patch: C3C 1.22
Victory Condition: Undecided
Variant Rules: None

Players
fbouthil
rrau
King Alexander
viper275
TheNemesis666

10 turns for each player and a 24 hour got it/24 hour play time.

Rules
I'm using the rules that LKendter used and have seen a few other people use:

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.


Standard rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases for the first 50 turns of the game.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
6) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.

i'm keen if you'll have me, I normally play on emperor. (so am happy to see another emp ai or two :-)

Nem

edit: and on the civ/game settings, I'm easy, see what others think when they sign up.

Ok, you're in! Need 3 more people...

Ok. I would like to join. :) I am a monarch level player trying to make the jump to emperor, but having limited success so far (2 wins out of 6 tries). :sad:

I have never played a succession game before, so this will be a new experience for me. I am used to the ship chaining exploit and I have overused it in my last game. I will have to play without it.

For the civilisation and map, I usually play everything random :crazyeye: for the added mystery. I do not mind having a few emperor level AIs.

Hi, I'm interested, but don't know if I qualify. Before joining sgotm3 I was winning about 50% regent games, but now I'm getting bored with most regent games (having a hard time finishing them due to lack of challenge) and probably need to move up to monarch. I have won an emperor game by diplomacy. If I'm accepted, would prefer a non diplomacy win situation - and a non industrious civ so I get a feel for how many workers are truly needed (I still probably don't build enough)

fbouthil and rrau, you're in! I'm thinking 2 Emperor AIs, random civ and if that random civ is industrious then I'll try again. I need 1 more player...

@Viper275: I'd like to join; I haven't played an SG with strict rules (LKendter's rules), yet.

Hey viper, I'm assuming the roster you've written at the top is just the order people have joined. I will be away with work over the next two days. If you kick it off in this time slot me in towards the end of the list. (or last unless you want that place)

@TheNemesis666: I just put it in order of signup. I don't care at all whether I'm last or not, I just decided to put myself there. I moved you there, so now fbouthil goes first.

I just started up the game, we got the Iroquois. Not too bad IMHO. Commercial and Agricultural, and a pretty good Unique Unit. Our starting location:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr14000bc.jpg
Time for some discussion on our opening moves!
EDIT: Attachments didn't work. Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1-4000BC.SAV) .

Hmm, no visible bonuses and some swamp in the start, might consider moving worker N, and Settler NE unless something good shows up when worker goes N - just to get us away from that swampland and have a chance at more productive start tiles. Would stay on the river with the capital since we're agricultural and settle future sites on river/fresh water as much as possible. How tight of a build are we going to want? I know crp doesn't work here so there's more flexibility, but if we are planning a lot of warring, closer placement might be better. (however, that said, I LOVE megaopolises in the modern age - if the game lasts that long)

sounds sensible rrau, I agree. unsure on city placement, depends where that river goes and how many cities we can pack along it :) , we definately want as many cities as possible to have access to fresh water for the extra food.
(I love the ag. trait)

I would like to say that I got it, but clicking on the save gives me a "Not found" message. :(

I intend to play tomorrow night. As for the starting position, It looks like the swamp extends from one tile E to behind the mountain. If I am not mistaken, the tile E-SE is a jungle indicating more jungles in that direction. Grassland to the north and forests in about every other directions, except perhaps behind the hill.

@rrau: Considering all the swamps, I do not believe moving the settler NE would give us any benefits. Worker N sounds like a good first move, but if nothing good shows up, I think we should settle in place.

The iroquois starts with pottery and alphabet. The initial research could be TW at 100% to make sure we spot horses as fast as possible for our UU later. It could also be writing at 10%, on our way to the republic gambit. Since it looks like we may be in a wet climate, Ivory could be in a nearby forest. Because Ivory permits building SoZ, I recommend researching TW. If we spot Ivory, we could research Mas->Math afterwards.

Hi everyone.

I agree with what the team said: move the worker 1N first, and if something good comes up, move the settler also.
Actually, if the worker went 1NE, it could give us a better idea of the map(the settler would then move 1N), and the worker can start his job from that tile. If we don't find any food bonus, settle where we are.

We could start researching TW to find soon where the horses are.

I haven't played the Iroquis before, so, I assume that we'll go for an early war to make use of our UU? If we do so, maybe it'll be better to have a tight city placement, like city-2tiles-city, or city-3tiles-city(maybe the later).

I think our current plan sounds good, and fbouthil's research path seems great. For what to do with our UU, I think we should get to another government fast so that we don't have a GA under despotism. Then we'll have an early war using our UU for a GA. We should probably start deciding on a victory type...

Let's see if this works:

We should probably start deciding on a victory type...

Let's see if this works: /delurk It's 4000BC and your looking to decide on a victory type. I think you need to see a few things first. The lay of the surrounding lands, neighbors, resouces, multiple etc's.
Good luck guys!
/relurking

I will play in a couple of hours.

As per team decision, worker N and research TW. I will decide where to settle depending on what the worker will sees. I am starting to wonder if one side of the river should be favored. Are we going to send more units and settlers N or S of the river?

On city placement, I prefer cities 3 tiles apart, but we have a couple of days and some exploring to do before we decide that. Same thing goes for the victory condition.

@fbouthil: I believe, we'll settle along the river. You're referring to the movement penalty of the river, I assume.

I must admit that I am a little bit nervous because this is my first SG and I play first, but what can I do wrong in the first 10 turns?

4000BC (1)
Worker N reveals plains and spice in the forest
Found Salamanca revealing another spice, banana and game!
Salamanca -> warrior
Setting research to TW at 100% (27 turns)

IBT - zzz
3950BC (2)
Worker builds mine

IBT - zzz
3900BC (3) - zzz

IBT - zzz
3850BC (4)
Demographics: I see Ottomans, Scandinavia, Carthage, Netherlands, France

IBT - zzz
3800BC (5) - zzz

IBT - zzz
3750BC (6) - zzz

IBT - zzz
3700BC (7)
Demographics: Entremont has not grown so Netherlands (agricultural) probably did not start with a fresh water source. :p

IBT - zzz
3650BC (8)
Worker builds road
Salamanca grows to size 2
Demographics: Paris grows to size 2, I think it has a food bonus. :(

IBT - Salamanca: warrior -> warrior
3600BC (9)
Warrior NW
Demographics: Carthage grows to size 2.

IBT - zzz
3650BC (10)
Warrior NW shows another river N :)
Demographics: Every other town grows to size 2, we are now second in pop probably behind France.

Score: 41


Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_3550BC.SAV)

Normally, I would says we should cut the forest on the game and irrigate that tile as fast as possible, but since we have such a low production, I am unsure if we should postpone that a little bit. Maybe we should wait near the end of the construction of the granary (after a settler and a few warriors).

Edit: I have mistaken celts for netherlands, but celts are also agricultural, so comments apply.

@fbouthil: I believe, we'll settle along the river. You're referring to the movement penalty of the river, I assume.
Yes, I was referring to the movement penalty of river, but it is too late now. I was really tempted to cross the river because of the jungle SE that may extend S. Luckily, I did not and got game in the forest SW. I think the game more than compensate for the penalty for crossing the river, even if the second river N shows that we will cross the river more than not.

Nice turns, but as the first player, you get the honors of playing 20 turns - soooo - your just halfway through!!!

Oups! I did not know about the 20 turns for the first player. Here is the rest then:

IBT - Salamanca borders expands showing more forest and grassland S, The jungle seems to extend SE now.
3500BC (11)
Worker SW, Warrior N

IBT - zzz
3450BC (12)
Worker Mine, Warrior N reveals floodplains and GH W
Demographics: I see Spain which makes 4 seafaring civ.

IBT - Salamanca warrior -> warrior
3400BC (13)
Warrior1 W, Warrior2 S

IBT - zzz
3350BC (14)
Warrior1 W on GH pops conscript warrior3.
Renaming warriors: Warrior1 to Pelletier, warrior2 to Blackfeet, warrior3 to Lasagna.
Note: The Iroquois village of Kanawake, near Montreal, has Pelletier as chief and Lasagna is a known criminal of that village.
Blackfeet S reveals another game. Lasagna N reveals swamps and deserts.

IBT - Salamanca grows to size 3.
3300BC (15)
Set luxury to 10% to prevent rioting.
Blackfeet S, Pelletier E, Lasagna N
Demographics: I am the only one to have grown to size 3.

IBT - Salamanca warrior -> settler
3250BC (16)
Warrior renamed to Longears fortifies in Salamanca so I can drop luxury tax to 0%, keeping research at 90% to prevent loosing gpt.
Pelletier E, Lasagna N reveals incense, Blackfeet S.

IBT - zzz
3200BC (17)
Pelletier E, Lasagna N, Blackfeet S

IBT - zzz
3150BC (18)
Pelletier NE, Worker road, Blackfeet S, Lasagna N reveals wine and two river with floodplains.

IBT - zzz
3100BC (19)
Pelletier E, Blackfeet E reveals GH, Lasagna NW
Demographics: Everyone is down to size 1 so they have built their first settler, except me. :(

IBT - zzz
3050BC (20)
Pelletier E reveals GH, Lasagna N reveals yet another river, Blackfeet E on GH get 25g

Score: 69

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_3050BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1_3050BC.JPG

Note: The game is under the "3" indicating the pop of Salamanca and another one is 3S of Salamanca.

A nice spot for the next city could be N-N-NE on the plains next to BG and Floodplains.

I think, we should start to road towards the game, cut the forest and irrigate. It will give us more growth, that we need so much. I wouldn't wait to have the shields go to the granary(anyway, by the time we do that, we would probably have a granary under construction).
If we're going for a tight city placement, I agree for the spot for the second city.

It is the first time that I look at the demographics often in the first turns of a game so what I am going to write may be obvious. If I am overanalyzing or boring, please tell me and I will try to be more brief in the future.

Current Civs:
Iroquois (Ag, Com) starts with Alpha, Pot, TW in 3t.
Ottomans (Ind, Sci) starts with BW, Mas.
:viking: Scandinavia (Mil, Sea) starts with Alpha, WC.
Carthage (Sea, Ind) starts with Alpha, Mas.
Netherlands (Ag, Sea) starts with Alpha, Pot.
France (Ind, Com) starts with Alpha, Mas.
Spain (Rel, Sea) starts with Alpha, CB.
One unknown civ.

I have determined that:

1. No known expansionist civ which explains in part why we do not have any contacts yet. We probably aren't the only ones in that situation.

2. Only Ottomans, and possibly the unknown civ do not know alpha, so if we meet them we should trade it ASAP.

3. Since so many civs know starts with alpha, the republic gambit is less likely to succeed. :sad: I am not saying we should not try it anyway.

4. No one started with TW so it may compensate for the fact that alpha will not be traded much. Actually, only Japan starts with TW so everyone except me already knew that, I guess.

5. At least 3 civs started with Mas, so I do not see why we should research this ourselves.

6. 4 civs are in the european culture group and are probably close to each other if we used the culturally linked starting positions. I am not sure this is very useful though. Maybe it means we are more likely to meet the Ottomans and Carthage (WC would become a more attractive research topic).

@rrau: I am very curious as to who is the unknown civ. Could you keep an eye on demographics until we know who it is, please?

@King Alexander: I agree with irrigating the game. We produce 5s per turn. The worker needs 1t to finish the road. If we want to cut the forest as fast as possible while making a road, the worker would do move, road (3), move to game, cut (4), road(3), irr (4), irr (4) which would mean at least 10t before the forest is cut so we should have 35s (+10) already towards building the granary. If we want to irrigate the game as fast as possible, it would be move, road (3), irr(4), move to game, cut (4), irr(4), road (3), 14t before the forest is cut, 55s on the granary when the forest is cut. If we go with the second option, we may have to wait a few turns before cutting the forest and the +10s would go to the next settler.

Edit: Actually, civs are Celts instead of Netherlands and the unknown civ is the Chinese. So, 3 civs did not start with alpha and 4 civs start with Mas.

got it!!!!

today is my day off, so rapid turn around :)

turn 0 (3050bc) preflight - OK

viewing space race (f10) shows other civs are: ottomans, vikings(scandanavia), carthaginians, celts, french, spanish and chinese

ibt :sleep:

turn 1 (3000bc)

worker south
Pelletier N
Lasagne N
Blackfeet sw

ibt

Salamanca settler => granary

turn 2 (2950bc)

adjust sci slider to 50 % for wheel in 1 (breaking even now - was at -2gpt before adjusting slider after settler born)
Rename worker to worker Alex (maybe follow abc to decrease confusion in the future). Worker Alex roads
settler NE
Pelletier pops hut and gets maps with orange borders and sees an orange settler/spear pair - can almost, but not quite trade, alphabet and gold for 2 of his 3 techs, will wait 1 turn to learn wheel and see what we can get
Lasagna N
Blackfeet s

ibt

learn wheel, start writing at min (hopefully be able to trade for most other 1st tier techs next turn)

turn 3 (2900bc)

darn, only horse on map is next to the ottoman settler/spear pair - will probably settle it this turn :mad:
Pelletier N
Blackfeet south
Lasagna n (sees tiny corner of light pink border and a cow)
settler n

trade ottomans alphabet, pottery, wheel, 23g for Bronze working, Masonry, WC

keep sci slider at 10% as all techs take 50 turns to research regardless of where slider is at (except CB which I don't want to research) Will stay at writing at minimum as AI's ususally go for IW, and no ivory nearby so no need for early maths and SoZ

ibt

Otto's settled the only known horse source :(

turn 4 (2850bc)

Pelletier N
Blackfeet s
Lasagna N and meets china (we're up alpha, pottery, wheel) Trade Pottery for 35 g
settler N (will settle next turn)

ibt :sleep:

turn 5 (2800bc)

settle Niagra Falls => warrior
worker Alex to game
Blackfeet SW
Pelletier N
Lasanga w

ibt :sleep:

turn 6 (2750bc)

Ottos have learned CB - for trade they want all our gold and all our gpt (no thanks). They have a warrior heading toward china, maybe they will trade it to them and we can trade it for one of the techs china lacks but Ottos already know

worker Alex starts chopping game
Blackfeet W
Pelletier N
Lasagna W (sees saltwater in the distance, will turn around next turn)

ibt :sleep:

turn 7 (2710bc)

Blackfeet W - sees a hut
Pelletier N (going along a ridge of mountains 1 wide)
Lasagna s to reveal more of the fog before heading east
Buy a worker from Ottomans for 52g and 3gpt - sent to chop a spice

ibt :sleep:

turn 8 (2670bc)

Ottoman worker starts chop (forgot to rename him and can't do it until chop is done).
Pelletier N again, sees dark green borders
Lasagna E
Blackfeet Nw

ibt :sleep:

turn 9 (2630bc)

blackfeet pops hut for CB (we've had great luck with huts so far)
Pelletier N against celt borders, meet celts
trade celts Masonry and Wheel for Mysticism, worker, and 35g
Lasagna E
trade Ottomans Mysticism for 91g (they like religious path and of our contacts are the only ones to know alphabet so maybe can get them to go that route instead of writing => philosophy)

Rename celt worker to worker Brad and send him to join the other foreign worker

ibt

game chop completes
Niagra Falls warrior => worker

Turn 10 (2590bc)

Blackfeet south
Lasagna E
Pelletier E
worker alex starts road on game

worker Brad still has to move - need to play with MM of salamanca to see best task for him - chop or start roading


Thoughts:

after granary, need another warrior to go explore the Jungle to E of Salamanca while waiting for growth to get population for settler factory

I've pretty much bankrupted the civs we have contact with and are even in tech with Otto's and lead celts by 1 and china by 3 (I think). I've also bought 2 foreign workers and have hopefully slowed their starts

we need more exploration, especially of FOW still near capital to look for horses or we will have to go to war to get them

I've made a screen shot with dots for possible city sites, - the one along the river towards ottos is to get us a road towards them if we have to go to war for the horses. Also, would settle one on the incense even though it will not be a productive city until the swamps are cleared


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1_2590bc.jpg


The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_2590_BC.SAV)

Got it.

1st priority site: the blue dot towards Edrine(and a river site), and after that, settle the insense.
Ok, I'll make another warrior to explore south, south-east.

Nice turn rrau, especially trades! :goodjob:

I never thought about looking at the space race before, heu, well, there is a space race. Nice trick.

I have mistaken netherlands for celts and will edit my posts accordingly.

Looking at the save, I realize that the Celts do not have a second city even if they built a settler. rrau was able to trade slaves with both Ottomans and Celts who started very close to each other. It is clear that Ottomans and Celts are at war :hammer: with each other. Ottomans probably destroyed the Celts city or capture the settler and workers went into the capital when enemy units approach them.

Looks good so far, nice set of turns everyone! I was wondering if we could settle next to that wheat near Edrine, right next to the horses. There is a chance that the borders could take the square that has the horses on it. The spot is pretty good even besides that, lots of BG, a river, and wheat. This would probably be after the first river site NW of Edrine.

@Viper275: we have 24h limit to play or 48? I thought you accidentally written the "24h".
Any suggestions before I take my turns, would be welcome.

The only suggestion I have right now is to send a worker or two toward Niagara Falls (nice name for city on a river :D ) once they are finished working their current tiles because Niagara Falls need them more than Salamanca. I like the city placement suggestions made by rrau, but would try to place the city on the way to the Ottomans on the other side of the river as we would need to build a road on one less tile to have a path that do not cross the river.

I'll play soon.

@Viper275: we have 24h limit to play or 48? I thought you accidentally written the "24h".
Any suggestions before I take my turns, would be welcome.
48 is fine with me.
@fbouthil: That's an interesting thought of thinking the celts and the ottomans are at war, you could tell at the foreign advisor screen.
EDIT: It turns out that the Celts and the Ottomans don't have contact with each other, but good thinking.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_2190_BC.SAV)

Pre-turn
I order both the Ottoman and Brad workers, to road the spices(1 worker was ordered to cut the forest, which will take many turns with a foreing worker).

I also take the citizen working the forest in NF, and put him on the BG: the city will grow in 2(1 turn faster), and the worker in production needs the same turns as before.

2550BC (1)
Nothing.

2510BC (2)
Niagara Falls grows to pop2(the second citizen goes to work the Grassland- faster growth).
Nothing new from the other civs.

2470BC (3)
Worker Alex completes the road to the game, goes 1 tile back to irrigate, so we can “drag” the water to the game later.
I order the citizen working the spices tile in Salamanca, to work the game: we’ll still get the granary next turn, and the city will grow in 3 turns, instead of 6.
Unfortunately, warrior Lasagna popped out barb-warriors from a goody hut(the RNG gods were sleeping!), and Blackfeet gave received maps from another goody hut.

IBT
Lasagna survives the attack of 1 barb-warrior and promotes to regular(1hp lost), 1 more goes 1 tile away(maybe he’s afraid!), and the last barb-warrior doesn’t attack, because he must cross the river to attack(the AI is not so stupid, after all).

2430BC (4)
Salamanca completes the granary, starts a warrior.

2390BC (5)
NF completes the worker(which goes to road/mine the BG), starts barracks.
Nothing new to trade/buy from our enemies.

2350BC (6)
Ottoman and Brad workers, complete the road to the spices, our first luxury, and cross the river to connect NF, also.

2310BC (7)
Alex finishes irrigating, goes to irrigate the game.
Salamanca completes the warrior, starts a settler.

2270BC (8)
Keep exploring.
The Ottomans learned Horseback Riding, but they won’t trade.

2230BC (9)
Worker in NF finishes roading the BG, starts mining. NF grows to pop2, second citizen goes to work the grassland.
Oh, I increased the lux to 10%: Salamanca has pop5, grows in 3, and completes the settler in 5.
Good news: our warrior finds 2 wines, south of Salamanca!!!

The Ottomans will trade HR for 210g(all our gold) + 8gpt, but I won’t trade; later on it’ll be much cheaper, and besides, no one has money or other techs to sell it.

2190BC (10)
Blackfeet survives a barb-warrior attack without losing any hp.
Oh, the wines near Salamanca, are 3!!!
The Celts haven’t yet made a second city, and they’re don’t know Alphabet yet.

The Ottomans haven’t made a third city, they’re the only civ with money(33g!) and they still want too much for HB.

The Chinese are down to Alphabet and CB, and they have a worker for sale: I’ll leave this option open, as it was my last turn, so the team can decide what to do:
They want 103g for their worker(after HARD negotiations!), or Alphabet, or CB.
I wouldn’t give them 103g to fund their research, but without the worker they can’t improve their land. So, maybe we can give them a tech, or pass the opportunity? I usually need around 30g to buy a worker in other games, that’s why I hesitate.

P.S.: I have trouble uploading screenshots, thank you for your understanding.

1 barb warrior may be coming for NF in a few turns(last time I had our warrior fortified in a mountain to heal, the last time I saw the barb-warrior), the Military advisor says that there are barbs nearby.

We can order our warrior near the wines to go back to escort our settler, or we can make a new warrrior, but, maybe we can make a second worker in Salamanca, so we can improve the land faster.

For conquests, that is a good price for a worker - I think average price is around 109. I'd recommend giving them CB for the worker.

@viper - how do you tell if AI's have contact, I thought the foreign advisor screen just shows rop, treaties, and trades and not whether they have contact. If there's a trick/hint, I would like to learn it :D

If there is no line between the AIs then they don't have contact with each other because peace is blue and red is war, and if civs have contact with each other they have to be either at war or peace.

Got it.

If there is no line between the AIs then they don't have contact with each other because peace is blue and red is war, and if civs have contact with each other they have to be either at war or peace.
What you are saying is true, but only after you have an embassy with a civ. After an embassy is established, you can see the relations between that civ and the other civ.

What you are saying is true, but only after you have an embassy with a civ. After an embassy is established, you can see the relations between that civ and the other civ.
That's interesting, I didn't know that.

Ok, thanks for the explanation, rrau.
I have played Vanilla most of the time, and have only 1 game that I finished in Qonquests: I didn't buy Qonquests until recently. I have heard and experienced some differences, but it's good to learn something new every day!

I have noticed many differences between vanilla civ and conquests, too. My turns:

Turn 1-2150 BC
Worker finishes irrigation, moves to Grassland.
Turn 2-2110 BC
Worker begins irrigation.
Turn 3-2070 BC
Move science up to 90% to get Writing soon (maybe we could get Philosophy and move on to The Republic?) The Ottomans get Horseback Riding but won't trade for it. We'll have to keep an eye on it.
Turn 4-2030 BC
Pop a hut and get a map.
Turn 5-1990 BC
Workers move to forest.
Turn 6-1950 BC
Workers road forest. This is beginning a road to my next city.
Turn 7-1910 BC
Explored, and that's about it.
Turn 8-1870 BC
Not much, just explored. Ottomans still don't want to trade.
Turn 9-1830 BC
Grand River founded. It's near a river and Edrine, it has Tobacco in its borders.
Turn 10-1790 BC
Roads to Grand River are continued.
Screenshot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr11790.jpg
Save:

got it, will play tomorrow when I get up. was the settler heading anywhere in particular, viper?

got it, will play tomorrow when I get up. was the settler heading anywhere in particular, viper?

edit: hmm, how the hell did IE do that?

nice turns viper, looks like our people will be getting some happiness juice soon :)

I was kind of thinking getting some of those wines for happiness and to make marketplaces more effective later. As for which one... I was thinking the one in the middle, as it would be a coastal city, would be fairly close to Salamanca, allows access to the other 2 wines for food and commerce bonuses (and could it get the tropical fruit?) But if there are other ideas on locations those are good too, this was just my idea.

and the next city? I'm looking at the forrest sw of the southern game tile. (s-s-s-sw from salamanca)

edit: I would like to settle towards the ottos but the only city sites will be in a jungle so I might go a more productive site first.

also, just got writing, are we going the republic gambit?

preturn
sci100%, lux0%, Writing 6t, -2gpt, 224g

1750BC (1)
worker team finish road on plain, move to tobacco (last tile to Grand R.)
explore with warriors
settler se

1725BC (2)
explore
begin roads on tobacco
settler arrives at northern wine
sci80%, lux0%, writing stays 4t, +1gpt, 220g

1700BC (3)
workers finish roads to Grand R. head back to Niagara to work flood plain
Allegheny Founded on northern wine->worker
Ottomans are now up HBR + Maths

1675BC (4)
Grand R. warrior->worker
sci70%, lux0%, writing stays 2t, +4gpt, 222g

1650BC (5)
salamanca settler->settler (+MM for growth)
niagara falls spearman->archer
spear to Grand R.
warrior in Grand R. to Niagara for MP (not really needed for another 2 grows)
sci30%, lux0%, writing stays 2t, +8gpt, 226g
settler se, se, s

1625BC (6)
settler s

1600BC (7)
we discover writing
sci100%, lux0%, COL 14t, -2gpt, 242g
Cattaraugus founded on hill w of game (decided this will fit better with another city nw of gold mt)
workers complete flood plain at niagara (MM for growth next turn)
sci100%, lux0%, COL 13t, -2gpt, 242g (new city)
chinese have IW

1575BC (8)
workers head to road to cattaraugus (it will only take 2 turns once they arrive, it will take 5 or 6 to hook up wine)
sci100%, lux0%, COL11t, -2gpt, 240g (growth at Niagara)

1550BC (9)
Grand River worker->barracks
damn, i missed MM sala last growth, settler is now out of sync (lost us a turn on the settler)
workers cross river at sala
hmm, only just noticed barb camp near Cattaraugus, I think I thought it was my warrior at first
move warrior from Niagara to sala for MP next turn
available trades:
china will trade IW for myst+alpha+119g
ottos will trade HBR+all their gold for writing (not a good option as I decided to go the free republic option)

1525BC (10)
niagara archer->spear
archer heads for Grand River
worker at Grand river begins mine on tobacco


>>> SAVE <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_1525_BC.SAV)


Had a bit of a shocker around turn 7, missed MM on sala growth and it must have been around then the barb camp first came into view and I thought it was my warrior. (it should have appeared on the border of Catta then, I don't think barb camps can show up in the 'lit up' areas of the map, only in the fog so it had to be there before I founded Catta)

nice turns, but I'm confused - did you do the IW trade with China in turn 9, or is it a headsup for fbouthil? (I'm assuming you didn't do the available Ottoman trade)

didn't do either trade, seeing as how it was my turn 9 i thought I'd leave it for the next player and some discussion. Ottos have both alpha and myst so it would probably be worth grabbing it.

I guess we could go for the Republic gambit if we want to, I don't mind either way too much. Haven't gotten to look at the save yet, is that what we're doing? For the next city, if you want to settle near the Ottos where there's wheat and you could try getting it and having your borders grab the square with horses...
EDIT: Haven't done this much, but...

TheNemesis666-Up Next, posted got it
fbouthil-On deck
rrau
King Alexander
viper275-Just played

I will play at the end of the afternoon or early tonight. Good turn everyone since we already have a small lead in the number of cities.

For trades, I am thinking of doing the following:
- Get IW from the chinese for techs + gold
- Get HBR from Ottomans for IW +- gold
- Get my gold back from the chinese for HBR

Unless you tell me if you have a better plan. Or course, we are in no hurry to get HBR as we do not have horses. On the other hand, I am wondering if I will be able to get HBR for IW since Chinese and Ottomans should have done the trade themselves (unless they do not know each other). I see no problem to trade HBR to the chinese as they seem to lack horses.

For the rest, I think I will try to:
- Get rid of the barbarians near Cattaraugus with Blackfeet and the warrior being constructed. Should I bring reinforcement from Salamanca since it would mean increasing lux to keep Salamanca happy?
- Continue exploring east as we may be on a pangeae.
- Settle south and down-river, maybe try to put another city N of Grand river especially if iron shows up in one of the hills, or try steal the horses from the Ottomans as suggested by viper (I never tried that either, but am confident it would work). I will explore that small unknown region with the archer. The incense N of Niagara Falls seems less important if we plan on conquering Edrine later.

Any suggestions are wellcome.

Good job TheNemesis666!
@fbouthil: Your ideas are good, I don't think we need reinforcements from Salamanca because of the attack bonus against barbarians and the fact that there's attack bonus against them.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to read above posts

1525BC (0)
I am not sure if I have the right to trade on turn 0, so will wait one turn.

IBT - Salamanca settler -> settler (mm to +4f to grow to size 4 in 2 turns)
1500BC (1)
Chinese: IW would cost alpha, myst, 151g or 230g + 8gpt
Ottomans: HBR would cost 220g + 5gpt
:mad: This is very expensive and IW would drop in value if I got it from the Chinese, I doubt I would be able to trade it to Ottomans for HBR without gpt, so no deal. If someone knows a trick to determine that in advance I would like to know it. I really wanted to see if iron was in our territory so we could attack Edrine with swordmen. Viper275's plan sounds very good now so the new settler will move in that direction.
Near Cattaraugus: 2 worker cut forest, 2 slaves road. I have never tried to start 2 different job on the same tile, I wonder how it will turn out.

IBT - Cattaraugus warrior->rax
1475BC (2)
:blush: Oups! I realize that I drop research to 10% last turn to determine the cost of trade (other civ do not accept more gpt than your surplus gpt) and forgot to put it back to 100%. I lost one turn before getting CoL. This is a beginner's error, sorry!

IBT
Allegheny worker->rax
workers cut forest giving 10 shield to Cattaraugus

1450BC (3)
workers build mine as slaves will finish road in 1t.
moving warriors next to barbarian camp.
I can't find a way to make Salamanca grow in 3t and finish settler in 3t. Set to grow in 3t and finish settler in 4t.
warrior heading back spots a chinese archer just outside Celt border.
warrior exploring E see coast NE from hill (end of continent?)

IBT
Chinese archer SE, an Ottoman warrior appears on Chinese border.
barbarian attacks warrior on hill without inflicting any damage.
Niagara Falls spearman->worker

1425BC (4)
Chinese: will not trade IW anymore.
Ottomans & Celts: now possess Poly. Celts only lack writing (traded together).
Archer finish exploring N of GR sees another incense.
settler move past GR, taking spearman with him.
spearman in NF goes to GR.
slave workers goes NE to cut forest to accelerate construction of next settler.
Blackfeet disperse barbarian camp, but very wounded.

IBT - zzz
1400BC (5)
spearman arrives at GR.
archer joins settler group.

IBT - NF riots (oh no! another beginner's mistake)
1375BC (6)
Chinese: would trade IW now, but for alpha + all our gold.
Ottomans: would trade HBR for 255g +3gpt
no trade to see if prices drop.

IBT
Salamanca settler->settler
Niagara Falls worker->spearman

1350BC (7)
found Oil Springs, but horses stay in Ottomans territory. Set for temple.
Prices for trades have increased. This really is not my day. :(
settler moves S. Blackfeet has finished healing and will escort him.
Warrior exploring E sees end of continent.

IBT - zzz
1325BC (8) - zzz

IBT - slaves cut forest for Salamanca.
1300BC (9)
Set Salamanca to +5f to grow in 2t.
Drop research to 30% as CoL in 1t and +16gpt.

IBT - Gets CoL, set to philo in 7t with research set to 100%.
1275BC (10) - zzz

The settler is S of Allegheny near its settling site, but I have not determine where it should settle. Salamanca needs 6sh to finish settler and is currently producing 4sh, but since it will grow it will actually produce 6sh and, if I am not mistaken, finish constructing the settler (I am not sure of anything anymore :sad: ). GR is at +2f laboring a forest, you can set it to labor the grassland if you prefer growth to production.

We have 6 cities and will settle one shortly.
Chinese: up IW, down Writing (and CoL), has 5 cities.
Ottomans: up 4 tech, down Writing (and CoL), has 3 cities.
Celts: up 3 tech, down Writing (and CoL), has 3 cities.

Actually, I am not too sure if passing on the trades was a completely bad idea as we will be able to trade 3-4 techs when philo is researched. IW & HBR now have a price under 200g and you may still buy HBR to trade it with the chinese if you cannot wait the 7t for philo. The worker near Oil Springs is on the forest. I was thinking either cut the forest or go mine the BG to accelerate the construction of the temple which will give us the horses (unless Edrine builds one first).

I hope I have not messed up the game too much and you can forgive me (and to think I was giving a lot of advices).

Does anyone understand why the incense near Edrine gives 2f when the other give 0f? Ottomans are not agricultural, I tought irrigation should give 1f.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_1275_BC.SAV)

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't mind paying gpt for techs that are off our research path - especially since we're trying for the republic slingshot. I would not trade writing away until we have to so an AI can't pop philosophy from a hut. (if you can get philosophy, i've noticed C3C likes to pop that tech from a hut)

>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_1025_BC.SAV)


Turn 0 (1275bc)

ok - can't do any trades without trading writing, so no trades

ibt

Salamanca settler => settler
NF spear => settler
road to Allegeheny completes - we now have firewater(wine)

turn 1 (1250bc)

settler from sal heads off with longears to the NW to settle by river/coast
move settler S of Allegeheny to hill next to coast - will settle next turn

ibt zzz

turn 2 (1225bc)

settle Tonawanda => worker

ibt zzz

turn 3 (1200bc)

settle Mauch Chunk => warrior in 5
Lasagna stops next to a BH

ibt

Cattaraugus rax => curragh

Turn 4 (1175bc)

Lasagna kills BH with loss of 2hp-sees barb camp in the distance

ibt zzz

Turn 5 (1150bc)

Still have monopoly on writing and Philosophy due next turn

ibt

Learn philosophy, select republic and learn it :) , select lit

when asked, we revolt and draw a 5 turn anarchy (the re=revolt trick does not work in C3C)

turn 6 (1125bc)

NF riots,
Salamanca would riot next turn, so hired some clowns
Trade Ottos writing + 27g for Math
Trade Celts writing + Math for Polytheism + 3g
Trade China writing for IW + 10g
Trade Ottos Phil for HBR, worker, +27g
Hire a scientist

ibt zzz

turn 7 (1100bc)

Lasagna is healed and moved next to barb camp
Pelletier brought out of Oil springs to intercept approaching barb

ibt

Pelletier fends off barb without wounds

turn 8 (1075bc)

Pelletier moves to hill and sees barb camp
Lasagna disperses Libyan camp and nets 25g with loss of 1 hp

ibt

Popup says China is building the pyramids for us - isn't that nice of them?

turn 9 (1050bc)

ibt zzz

turn 10 (1025bc)

Pelletier disperses barb camp

Notes: Anarchy should end on the ibt - a lot of unhappy cits- need to reinstate lux slider asap after revolt is done.

You have a curragh building

Currently researching lit with single scientist during anarchy - can switch if you want. I was just thinking we might want some libraries soon to help speed research


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1_1025bc.jpg




sorry if this posted multiple times, but I was having trouble getting it to post. :blush:

Nice job, rrau, especially with the trades, we got some great techs from them. So we're about to be a Republic, yay! I'm looking at that Iron next to the river... That's a nice looking city spot, with those hills and forests for production. I was thinking irrigate the grassland squares to support citizens working on forests and mined hills. What I'm getting at is that could be a potential production factory (and get the iron.)

BTW, King Alexander's up next.

:goodjob: Excellent turn, rrau! You recovered from my lack of trades very well.

A few thoughs:
-The only strong civ on the continent are the chinese as they have the same number of cities than us and the other civ have half as much.
-Chinese need both iron and horse for their UU and seems to have none in their territory :p so getting the close iron should be a priority, as the Chinese could conquer Celts horses in a war.
-Celts will have iron NE of their territory for UU. In C3C, AI likes to go at war when they have some (ga).
-Ottomans have a culture of 16 over us meaning they built a temple in Istanbul. I suggest we hurry the temple in Oil Springs to insure we get the horses.

Should we keep research low to accelerate military buildup? I was thinking we should build lib in our ga, so no hurry to get lit.

It seems my previous turn may turn out to be good in the long term after all.

:eek: I just realized that we can determine if AI has improved a tile by right-clicking on it. Both the tobacco E of Alesia and BG N of tobacco produces 1 more gold than they should if no road was built. More improvements near Shanghai and Canton. It may be common knowledge, but this is new for me.

Hi team! I will see and estimate the situation tomorrow; I was away from Friday. I'll post any questions, if I have, before I play.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_775_BC.SAV)

I set the single scientist in Salamanca: I think, it’s better that we let the other cities to grow faster, as they’re in the borders.

1000BC (1)
We’re now a Republic.
I decide to rush the settler in Salamanca for 40g, because he needs 5 turns to be made, while the city grows to pop7 in 2 turs.

IBT
The Ottomans settle Uskudar near the iron.
Our eastern warrior survives a barb attack.
Salamanca completes the settler, starts another one.

975BC (2)
I make the single scientist in Grand River.

950BC (3)
NF completes the settler, starts one more.

925BC (4)
Worker moves.

IBT
I trade with the Ottomans: they offer incense for wines + 2gpt, and I accept(I coulnd’t lower the price).

900BC (5)
No one has learned something new.

875BC (6)
We find St.Regis near the Iron.

850BC (7)
Salamanca: settler >> settler.
We find Centralia on the incense(there are 2 of them).

825BC (8)
Keep improving the land.

800BC (9)
zzzzz

775BC (10)
I have 2 settlers and 2 spearmen near Niagara Falls: there isn’t so much unclaimed land left towards the east, so, we could begin to settle the jungle east of Allegeny and the peninsula to the west, west-east.
We can decide to rush the temple in Oil Springs (that can be done at the pre-turn of the next player), so we take the horses and not to risk a culture flip.
We could try and settle near the second iron, begin a temple and library and raze the Ottoman city when we go to war.

Good luck.

Got it. Rushing the temple could be a good idea. If we were to gain more culture in Oil Springs, Edrine could flip, too. More Iron is always helpful since the current one could exhaust. But we'd have to do some serious irrigating unless that's flood plain there. Any suggestions before I play?

Good turns, I agree with rushing the temple

As soon as we get the horses, I say start building military - my preference is to target Ottos first. If we have enough left over, maybe take out some chinese cities before the get riders. Unfortunately celts already have or will have their UU available soon (if they have iron connected - if they don't then maybe them second to hem in the Chinese), and would prefer not to fight a civ during their GA (unless we give away a gov't the turn before DoW and slice through them while they are in anarchy :devil2: - if this doesn't violate the spirit of the game and is considered an exploit)

I know - a lot of rambling what if thoughts :crazyeye:

Definitely build military soon. St. Regis is by the river if i read correctly. That's a good spot for shields, so if we get Horses that city could probably make a Mounted Warrior factory, producing 1 every 3 turns is easy and 2 turns is possible. We could definitely go to war with the Ottomans, but if we're talking about a lot of wars in this, China seems logical because of the UU coming fairly soon, then the Ottomans. Of course, location favors us going to war with the Ottomans. IMHO we should skip the Celts until later. We could try to get them in Anarchy (I don't consider it an exploit and it wasn't forbidden in the rules), but they're Religious so I don't think that'll work too well. The Gallic Swordsman gives a big advantage to them right now because of the large amounts of tiles that don't disrupt 2 movement. They'll get Iron as it's right next to their capital. I think we should wait with them until maybe late MA.

@ :king: Alexander: Good turn. There is something in your strategy that escapes me. Why should we make settling in the jungle a priority? There are still some good settling spots between the civs if we can grab them and we have our own large backyard south.

Obviously I agree with rushing the temple as I suggested it in post 56.

@http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/viper_275.JPG275 : Do not worry about chinese riders as they do not have horses and are far behind in tech. St.Regis has just been settled, it will take a lot of time before it can be as productive as you say.

I think we should worry about the second war after the first one has at least started.

Rushed Temple preturn, was worth the 100 gold IMHO.
Turn 1
Horses immediately stolen.
Turn 2
Not much
Turn 3
Very little
Turn 4
China will trade us Map Making for Code of Laws. That's about all they'll trade for except for lots of techs/gold. I take it.
Turn 5
Not much again.
Turn 6
I wanted a spot pretty badly and the Celts took it. At least there's another one nearby like it.
Turn 7
Akwesane founded near forests.
Turn 8
What a turn! Founded Tyendenaga near hills and marshes (I plan to clear marshes and irrigate that grassland to have citizens work mined hills.) Khamawake founded near China and Caughnanaga founded near Flood Plain and river.
Turn 9
Almost nothing, especially when compared to turn 8 ;)
Turn 10
Nothing notable, but we now have a nice little stack of MWs near Edrine.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1550bc.jpg

Kahnawake and Caughnawaga are pretty close to foreing culture: we should connect those cities asap, work their land(1 worker for each should be enough), and build libraries and temples there.

@fbouthil: 1) I don't like my capital to have a foreing city in it's borders, 2) I'd settle the jungle, so we can strike the Ottomans from multiple bases.

I'd leave only Salamanca to build settlers, and make units in the other cities, and when their pop is high, build a worker every now and then.

This is the first time that I play with the Iroquis: now that we have horses, can we built our UU? If so, let's build as many as we can. We can decide to make war with the Chinese and take a few cities, and do the same with the Ottomans.

EDIT: Even better, we could focus on military an all cities, even Salamanca(just built a worker between every 2 units). Once we have enough units, let's attack the Ottomans, and after taking a few cities, the Chinese.

EDIT 2:Btw: good turns, Viper275.

got it. At work currently, will read turn logs tonight and start if I have now q's.

Kahnawake founded: At last, Pelletier and Lasagna will feel at home! ;)

All right http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/viper_275.JPG275! You founded 4 cities and we have a settler waiting to settle. BTW, where was that settler heading?

@ :king: Alex: I like the idea of rushing culture in Kahnawake as it would take the wines out of Chinese hands!

IMHO, we will be at war with Ottomans soon. :devil2: Anyone know a good way to attack them without destroying their cities? I sometimes give them tech to go to another gov so they cant poprush. At other times, I chase the capital (conquer the capital, wait for the new capital to expand, conquer the new capital, etc), but that takes a lot of time and war weariness would be a problem. I sure there is a better strategy.

BTW, there are barbs near Akwesasne, we could use the region S as training grounds.

BTW, where was that settler heading?
Nowhere in particular. I just thought that North was a good direction to go because most city sites would be there.
IMHO, we will be at war with Ottomans soon. :devil2: Anyone know a good way to attack them without destroying their cities? I sometimes give them tech to go to another gov so they cant poprush. At other times, I chase the capital (conquer the capital, wait for the new capital to expand, conquer the new capital, etc), but that takes a lot of time and war weariness would be a problem. I sure there is a better strategy.
Since our best units are fast, my advice is to get it over with quickly. Get enough Mounted Warriors to destroy them alone, then declare war and quickly get rid of them, 20 turns or under or something. We won't have to deal with WW a whole lot and they can't do too much to us in 20 turns, especially if they're trying to defend themselves. Their cities are size 1 but hopefully they will eventually grow or gain culture so that we can keep them. Attack plan should first be Edrine, then Istanbul, from there the Ottoman cities are seperated. We could either get a couple more then leave them that way, or we could heal our units, then split them into to stacks, one going to Uskudar and Izmit, the other going to Bursa and Iznik.

preturn
everything looks good

IBT
French complete the oracle in paris

530BC (1)
grand river Mount.War.->Mount.War.
settler continues n

IBT
Celts are building ToA

510BC (2)
salamanca settler->settler
allegheny worker->worker
cattaraugus Mout.war.->mount.war.

490BC (3)
Niagara Falls mount.war->spear (for tyen. defense in the coming war)

IBT
Our wine+2gpt for incense from the ottos expires
(I decide not to renew as we'll probably attack them inside the next 20)
Celts are building the Pyramids

470BC (4)
cattaraugus riots from lack of wine, employ scientist
st. regis barracks->spear (not on trade net yet)

450BC (5)
allegheny worker->worker
tonawanda mount.war->mount.war
iron is now hooked up (so is st.regis)

430BC (6)
salamanca settler->settler
niagara spear->mount.war.
centralia worker->worker
akwesasne spear->barracks

IBT
chinese galley heading s of our west coast

410BC (7)
buy temple in Kahnawake for 196g
caughnawaga worker->temple
cattaraugus mount.war.->mount.war.

390BC (8)
allegheny worker->spear
kahnawake temple->court
ottomans picked up monarchy in the last turn or two I think (unless i've missed it all along)

370BC (9)
grand river mount.war->mount.war
oka founded next to cows on river between nanking and alesia
chondote founded next to iron at uskudar (iron is in our border and if we rush a temple sometime soon the ottos won't get it)

350BC (10)
salamanca settler->settler
niagara falls mount.war->mount.war
mauch chunk mount.war->mount.war


9 mount.war sitting outside edrine 2 more on their way
settler in salamanca unmoved for next player to deploy
settler pair down south, was going to settle somewhere near their current loc.
Lit due next turn

edit - oops, the save:

nice turns.

Once we're ready for war, if Ottoman cities are still too small to take without razing, I would recommend taking the capital and other culture expanded cities, then suing for peace and getting most of their size 1 cities in the peace treaty (and monarchy if possible - but I think it's either tech or cities and would prefer the cities).

And if one of their city happes to be autorazed, we can always replace it!

All right! You guys have really put me in a good position to attack Ottomans! :D

Actually, my question about attacking a civ in despotism do not apply anymore as Ottomans are in Monarchy now and only 2 cities are size 1.

Since almost everyone has said his word since TheNemesis666 has played, I will play right now, but will check the forum every few turns in case you have something to add.

Plan:

Build an embassy with Ottomans to scan for defenses and see when the wonder will be finished (only 30g).
Go to war with Ottomans once I have about 2 MW for each spear in the capital, or a few turns before the completion of the wonder if it is almost finished.
Build a galley on each coast to try finding another continent.
Build TGLighthouse :eek: in Cattaraugus as it would be finished before the end of our ga and would really help galleys in their search.
Build libraries in the cities with the most commerce when I do not need them to build more MW (unit cost is already 62!)

this all seems sensible fb. the only suggestion I might have is look at getting some defenders along our nw border in case china signs with ottos or decides to attack us while our mw's are in otto land. not a pressing issue and can be done while we are putting otto to the sword. (there was only a couple with just warrriors and we could probably just upgrade them to swords)

People in Edrine tremble in fear, hearing our drums of war! :evil:

350BC (preturn): Move the settler S with spear.

IBT
research: lit -> curr at 20% (15t, +6gpt)
Cattaraugus: MW -> The great lighthouse (34t) :eek:
Oil Spring: courthouse->spear (too close to frontline for lib)
Tonawanda: MW -> galley
St. Regis: Spear -> galley
Tyendenaga: Barrack -> spear

330BC (1)
Embassy with Ottomans: size 2, ToA in 144t, 3 spears, 9g.
DoW with Ottomans
Moving a MW for training S of Akwesasne, see barb camp and China spear+settler.
Conquer Edrine, :) kill 2 spears, loose 1 MW, no resistance -> Courthouse
Golden Age! :D Research at 40%, curr in 7t, +6gpt, TGlight now builds in 19t
Swap Allegheny and Tonawanda production, still galley in 3t, spear in 2t, but spear nearer S for new cities.

(read TheNemesis666 post about defenses near China)

IBT
Barb horse approach Izmit

310BC (2)
Rush temple in Oka. China could not attack it directly from his territory & cultural attack versus Nanking.
8 MW go in forest next to Istanbul.
curragh sees that Sea extends NE of Izmit (island near?)
MW disperses barb camp. Mil adviser says barbs near Edrine (The same camp that sent barb horse to Izmit I guest)
Found Gandasetaigon on oasis (only spot that will get us BG and whales) -> courthouse
upgrade 2 warriors to swordmen.

IBT
Salamanca: Settler->Settler
Niagara Falls: MW->lib
Oil Springs:Spear->Spear
Tonawanda:Spear->MW
Oka:Temple->courthouse

290BC (3)
Conquer Istanbul [dance] killing 3 spear & 1 archer, no losses, no resistance -> courthouse
Kill archer near Istanbul
mil advisor:barbs are now near Istanbul

IBT
Grand River:MW->lib
Allegheny:Galley->spear
Centralia:Worker->rax
Ottoman archer near Chondote.

270BC (4)
Move 5 MW near Iznik
Galley sees island S of Iznik
Move 2 MW near Chondote in case ottomans archer gets lucky.

IBT
Ottoman archer gets killed attacking Chondote
Oil Springs: spear->rax
St.Regis:Galley->lib
Tyendenaga:spear->spear
Chinese galley goes S, probably transporting another settler.

250BC (5)
Conquers Iznik with first attacking MW! :banana: 2 resisters->worker
3 MW deverted towards Uskudar, 1 MW towards Istanbul to go toward Bursa with MW healing in Istanbul.
2 MW arrives in Chondote to attack Uskudar in 2t.
Road to Caughnawaga & Oka finished.

IBT
Salamanca:settler->settler
Akwesasne:rax->spear

230BC(6)
science to 20%, currency still next turn.
Road to Gandasetaigon complete

IBT
China moves 2 settlers E
Ottoman warrior appear near Istanbul (What an incredible counterattack!)
Science:curr->const in 7t at 40%, +6gpt
Allegheny:spear->spear
Tonawanda:MW->MW
Mauch Chunk:MW->lib
Oka expands: Nanking is really squeezed!

210BC(7)
Conquer Uskudar :yeah: killing 2 spears, no losses, 2 resisters -> courthouse
Founded Ganogeh->harbor
2 swords arrives in Caughnawaga for defense in case of an alliance.
Founded Gayagaahe->worker

IBT
Niagara Falls:lib->market
Resistance stops in Uskudar, rioting, set to starving mode.
2 ottoman warriors move out of Bursa

190BC (8)
Kill warrior near Istanbul
galley spots pink border S of eastern peninsula (french?)
moving 6 MW near Bursa

IBT
Oil Springs:rax->spear
Akwesasne:spear->spear
Tyendenaga:spear->spear

170BC (9)
Contact Scandinavia down CoL, Lit, 8 cities
Galley spots brown border (Carthage)
Conquer Bursa :nya: killing 3 spears, losing 1 MW and having first promotion to Elite! :D , no resisters->courthouse

IBT
2 Ottoman warrior move back toward Bursa
Salamanca: settler->settler
Allegheny: spear->market (unit cost is 76, will need money to support them when ga finishes)
Tonawanda: MW->market

150BC (10)
move 5 MW near Izmit spot barbs camp.
Kill 2 warriors near Bursa.
curraugh spots barb camp
Contact Carthage up mon & const, down CoL & Lit, 12 cities, ivory & silks. No deal since const researched in 3t.
Wonders: Carthage is constructing 5 wonders, Scandinavia 3.

Score:433

In my excitement, I left only one MW in Isnik. Now there are 2 warriors more, but there is still one resister.
Celts have 2 workers for sales right now, I will let the next player decide if he wants to buy them.
Carthage is very strong and building SoZ. I am guessing it is an emperor. The other is probably china or france.
I was moving my troops near Izmit in hope it would grow soon to size 2, but it did not. Consider diverting them to Antayla first.
We have competition for TGLighthouse, but we do not really need it anymore. What wonder could we build instead? Maybe ToA since we do not have many temples.
It should not be long, but Celts did not build a road to iron. We have enough MW left to attack them after Ottoman is eliminated (or peace treaty).


Have fun rrau!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr150BC.jpg

Nice set of turns, good job with the war. I noticed 2 Chinese units in our territory, one a warrior. Osman's basically gone. It seems like China's the only thing stopping us from complete control over our continent which it looks like we can get soon (the Ottomans are crippled and the Celts are just plain weak until they get Gallic Swordsmen.) WW is lowered when your enemy is the aggressor, so now could be a chance to wipe out China before they get too far ahead if they are indeed one of the Emperor AIs. So I'm thinking tell the Chinese warrior(s) to get lost. If they declare war, the MWs about to take Izmit could grab Tatung and then Anyang if there's enough units left later. Before this but after China's at war with us, the Ottomans probably will give away some cities for peace. If we can protect them, they'll be safe, and the Ottomans can't get too big after what we've done to them (if they do we can attack them again.) However, China might be able to autoraze Uskudar, I don't know whether we cared that much about that city or not.

Of course Mao might just back down. In that case, we finish off the Ottomans and settle where they were. This is just a thought, I don't want to get into anything we can't handle, but it's an idea...

Nice turns, fbouthil. :goodjob:

One thing: just watch out for hapiness problems, and raise the lux slider if needed (or make taxmen, when you must raise the lux TOO MUCH).

We could try and finish the Ottos, if there are enough units in the front: don't leave our units inside their cities, if there's no visible danger(fear for culture flip).

If there are enough units in the front to qonquer the last Otto cities, don't send any more. Take our new units to our front with the Chinese, and when the war with the Ottos is over, bring back the excess units to join our force in the Chinese borders, and declare(if you want, you can move our units inside their borders, but do not attack that turn, we care about our reputation and possible trades with other civs. However, we can raze those cities that are too close to ours, so we leave them room to expand).
It doesn't matter if we don't take over all China: just take their half empire is enough!(if they do not have good resistance). China is next: better to strike them and reduce their cities, before they get their UU(Rider).

Suggestions?

the chinese warrior is probably a settler pair, i'd seen a chinese warrior and settler moving up and down our border there in my turns, looking back i forgot to note it.

got it

I do have a question though - if china refuses to remove their people from our territory, will us dow on them end our GA - I thought it did and ususally refrain from making declarations during GA. Of course, if I'm wrong, I would like to know about it.

so, the plan(s) depending on your answer to my ?:

Finish war with Osman maybe reduce him to 1 city and keep him around until age change and gift him into it for his free tech. Demand China remove her units and either she does, doesn't but doesn't dow, or dow on us. If she doesn't dow on us, dow on her (unless it will kill our GA)

I will try to play tonight after work.

I'm not sure about an epic game (although I'd assume it was the same) but yesterday on Napoleonic Europe I got a GA and had another civ declare war on me and I declared war on one so I don't think it gets rid of the GA.

If China has a warrior/settler pair they might just leave when we tell them to, since 1 warrior can't do too much damage and if it tried to attack anyone the settler is undefended.

I don't know what the Ottomans will give for peace (haven't looked at the save yet) but if they give Izmit and Aydin they're down to one city. If not but we want to destroy them, the stack of MWs attack Izmit, the 1 health point MWs defend Bursa, leaving the others to attack Antalya. Once we have spears defending Bursa the MWs can go attack Aydin along with any other MWs that are already in Ottoman land.

Better demand 1-2 cities from the Ottos, to see what they offer.
It's good to strike China soon, before our Ga ends(how many turns do we have on the GA?). Anyway, GA or not, let's strike them now that we're strong!

The chinese warrior is with a settler, so they will accept getting out of our territory if asked.

I have never experience a shorten ga. It started on my first turn, so it will end on the first turn of King Alexander (sorry Alex).

Osman would only give us Izmit for peace.

I suggest to take Izmit for peace and move the MW group to the chinese border before declaring war.

I think we should start thinking about where we want our FP. I was thinking about Uskudar or a little bit to the west.

The cities taken from Ottoman were set to courthouse, feel free to change that, especially if you plan on a FP close.

turn 0 (150bc)

demand Chinese leave or declare, they leave
check what otto would give for peace - a single pop 1 town or monarchy - nope

Check production - for being in a war, we're building a lot of city improvements and not many units
Rush libraries in Grand River and St regis
Rush Temple in Caughnawagha
Switch Tonawanda to MW
Rush courthouse in Kahnawake

Note: celts have horses hooked up, but not iron :confused:

Trade Mao Polytheism for 102g to deprive them of upgrades

Trade Celts: 200g+1gpt for 2 workers

ibt: carthage demands removal of our troops - comply
Grand River library => MW
Oil springs spear => MW
St Regis library => MW
Kahnawake courthouse => sword
Caughnawaga temple => sword

turn 1 (130bc)

move max healed troops toward Antayla
settler/spear pair s of Salamanca - can't find where they were going, so will send s away from war zone
single 4hp MW kills spear in Izmit and razes it - capturing 1 worker - looks like china is sending a settler pair this way, expect we'll get to repeat this in a little bit
MW takes out barb camp and is promoted to elite
Position 3 Mw outside Tautang (waiting for it to grow to 2 to declare)

ibt

resistance ends in Resnik - riots
Akwesasne spear => temple

turn 2 (110bc)

Mao knows republic
Trade celts republic for Monarchy + 90g (they still don't have iron hooked up)
Ottos would give up Adyin (size 2), but nope
Tatung size 2, dow on china
Capture Tatung(Chinese) - lost 1 MW
failed to capture Antayla(Otto), but have a fresh MW ready to try next turn
Raze Anyang (chinese)
capture Chinese settler
Adjust sci slider as low as possible for construction in 1

ibt

Enter MA :D
There's a massive barbarian uprising near Bursa
Choose to research Engineering
Tonawanda Mw => MW
Tyendenaga spear => worker (no improved tiles)

Turn 3 (90bc)

Nanking
reg sword kills reg spear
vet MW dies to reg spear
reg sword dies to reg spear and spear promotes

lose 2 mw attacking Antayla (no retreats)

:mad: bad rng turn :mad:

ibt

Salamanca settler => settler
Niagra Falls market => MW
Grand River Mw => MW
Oil spring MW => MW
Kahnawake sword => sword

turn 4 (70bc)

Rush Library in Mauch Chunk
move troops
heal troops
no attacks this turn

ibt

Carthage lands settler/numidian on our continent, get attacked by bhorse, and numidian promotes to elite
Mauch Chunk library => MW
St Regis MW => MW
Tyendenaga worker => temple
Chondoate riots (forgot to check :blush: )
Gayagaahe worker => temple

turn 5 (50bc)

reg sword attacks 4hp spear and captures Nanking (chinese) => worker
elite MW captures antayla (ottoman) no promotion

ibt

A galley almost sunk by 2 barb boats
China moves a single warrior next to Nanking (only offensive I saw in either war during my turns :eek: --except for barbs)
Niagra falls MW => MW
Iznik worker => courthouse
Tonawanda MW => MW

turn 6 (30bc)

found Gewauga => warrior
MW kills warrior near Nanking and promotes to elite

ibt

Oil Spring MW => MW
Resistance ends in Antalya and it riots

turn 7 (10bc)

reg sword kills reg spear and captures hangchow and 3 workers
Trying to make celtic settler go around some units to give our settler time to get to spices
Meet France they are very backward - don't know writing, HBR, currency or construction and are broke
start march with 4 MW to Otto's last city (2 are elite)

ibt

France demands removal of troops, ok
Celts and Carthage both settle towns this turn
Salamanca settler => settler
Niagra Falls mw => MW
Grand River MW=>MW
Allegheny library => market
Mauch Chunk MW => MW

turn 8 (10ad)

3 MW attack canton, 1 retreats, 2 win and canton is captured with 1 worker

ibt

China asks for peace, but will only give one city, nope we can get more
Buncha barbs moved next to Macao (and our MW outside of the town)
Tonawanda MW => market
Resistance in changhow ended
St Regis MW => MW
Spain completes SoZ in Barcelona

turn 9 (30ad)

would complete Great Lighthouse this turn, but I don't think we need it on this map so switch to ToA for itself or as a prebuild for SunTsu's

move MW's

ibt

Niagra Falls MW => MW
Oil Springs MW => MW
Mauch Chunk mW => MW
Awkwesasne temple => library
Kahnawake sword => sword
no wonder cascade from Spain building SoZ

turn 10 (50ad)

Position 4 MW's to finish off the Ottomans next turn

NOTES:

1. you have a nice stack of MW's building by Canton
2. In the South, a Chinese ship came down and dropped off some units west of Gewauga - unknown type - would try to get some units there to check it out
3. There's some barb stacks on the move - one near Gayagaahe (may go to us or Macao) and one that was last seen moving toward Aydin - so if we take it, be prepared to be sacked - maybe make it a barb sink and empty the treasury before that happens.
4. China is broke and has 6 cities plus capital and will only offer Macao for peace.
5. Cattaraugus is building ToA as either itself or prebuild for Sun Tzu's
6. Will learn Engineering in 2 (chose this as it was annoying having to cross multiple rivers to get troops N to chinese and AI's usually go top branch, so should be able to trade it)
7. Celts still don't have iron hooked up, but we have 10 turns of trade agreement left, so since our trading rep is golden, Viper would be able to dow on them on his first or second turn if they still don't have iron hooked up (they do have horses)
8. You have 3 settlers on the move - I think most are unescorted - placement is up to you


you don't know how tempted I was to play one more turn - by accident ;) - and finish off the ottomans :mischief:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1_50ad.jpg

nice turns rrau. ottomans put up even less of a fight than I'd expected. (not that I'd expected much)

Nice job rrau. The sooner we're rulers of our continent, the better.

Not yet a "got it". At work now. I'll check the situation we're in, but looks good.

EDIT: "I got it". I'll play tomorrow.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_130AD.SAV)

IBT
The barbarians at Macao(chinese) attacked Gayagaahe instead and killed a spear, 1 lonely and red-lined spear survived (with Elite status), as the barb horses were many.

The Vikings started MoM, and they completed the Great Lighthouse in Trondheim.

Carthage begins MoM.

The Chinese city of Beijing completed the Pyramids: it must be captured.

8 more barb horse came out of nowhere near Aydin(last Otto city), and they smell trouble, I bet they’re going for Bursa(a lonely MW).

70AD (1)
I’ll begin from the Ottos first.
We capture Aydin, but we get no GL.
I kill 2 barb horses, 6 remaining.

We kill a Chinese spear/settler and we have 2 workers.

IBT
Carthage begins ToA, HG, the GW, and MoM.
Celts begin the GL, and the HG.
France begins the ToA, the HG, and the GW.
As I had predicted, 6 barb horses went for Bursa: our MW can’t reach Bursa in 1 turn.

90AD (2)
Golden Age is over.

We learn Engineering, I begin Feudalism at 30%, 14 turns.

We kill a spear at Macao.

Siege of Beijing: We kill 2 spears, and the city is ours. We now control the Pyramids.

110AD (3)
Move troops forward.

130AD (4)
I’m trying to finish my turns quickly, as I have a terrible headache.

As we attack Shangai with an Elite, we get a Military Great Leader. MW renamed to Secret Weapon.

I can’t finish my turns, as the headache gets worse. Sorry guys. Turn 4 is incomplete.
Inside Bursa are 3 barb horses: attack them each time with our MW(they don’t dare to attack, as they haven’t enough firepower). I really can’t tell more right now.

so far so good!

If everyone else agrees, let's give you an extension past the 48 hours to finish when the headache is gone :)

Yes, he can definitely get an extension. I have problems with headaches too (not at the moment, but it happens a lot.)

Well while :king: Alexander is resting to get rid of his headache, I think we should think about what to do with the military great leader. I think the best thing to do with it is to build a FPalace, but where? Uskudar would reduce corruption in former Ottoman territory and Celt territory (soon to be conquered) while Oka would reduce corruption in former Chinese territory and Celt territory. Any preference anyone?

Well, I feel a little better now.

fbouthil suggested to rush our FP with the MGL. What do you think; get the FP in Oka or Uskudar(probably in Uskudar, as it's more to the center of the continent. Chondote will be abandoned, once we get rid of the Celts), OR, make an Army?

The FP will help a lot, to make our cities more productive; I hope, we'll get another MGL to make an army.

P.S.: thanks for the understanding with my headache.

EDIT: Cattaraugus is set on the ToA(due in 13). Does anyone want to switch to the GL(due in 4)?
I certainly don't want the ToA, but it's the wonder that'll help us to keep our shileds until Feudalism is researched.
We research at 30%, Feudalism in 13 turns. If we want to for Sun Tsu's, we must run a deficit(-9, at 40%, Feudalism in 9 turns), so we'd switch the pre-build in Cattaraugus.

Looks like we could afford a small deficit. Sun Tzu's could be pretty helpful. Oka sounds like a great spot for the FP, but we'd have to see if we can really have some core cities there to take advantage of the FP. Looks like a pretty good spot to me.

IMHO, once the FP is in place, the extra commerce will let us research at 40% with a deficit of less than 5g or maybe even a surplus.

I like Oka for the FP, too.

Here's what happened: the Spanish took the ToA. I don't know how they managed to take it. We really don't have many options: the Great Wall, and MoM are out of the question. Hanging Gardens and the Great Library are the options that we have, really.
We can't lose that many shields, and we have to decide what to build.

As for the FP, I'll rush it in Oka, as we 've agreed.

I'll wait for suggestions, before I play the remaining 5 turns.

EDIT: I'll post my turns tomorrow at afternoon(morning in the US).

Personnaly, I prefer HG to GL since Education is only 3 techs away. But I have another option to suggest:

Put Cattaraugus to a shield diet! Cattaraugus labors can work the tiles that produce as few shields as possible. When I tried it, it reduced it to 2 sh. By switching to GL, it would take 17 turns to complete so we could switch to Sun Tzu when feudalism is researched. The down-side of this plan is that there is a risk that another civ would complete GL before that and foil that plan.

I like fbouthil's idea - let's try that, if it fails, then HG

yeah, i vote for fbouthil's idea too. (and yay for the MGL)

I agree with fbouthil's as well. Why not use Palace as a prebuild in Cattaragus (as long as another city we have isn't building it, nobody's going to steal it.)

lol @ palace stealing.

I agree with fbouthil's as well. Why not use Palace as a prebuild in Cattaragus (as long as another city we have isn't building it, nobody's going to steal it.)
I suggested that we lower the amount of shield Cattaraugus was producing and switch to GL. What exactly are you agreing with? :crazyeye: You do not have to spare my feelings when you have a better idea :goodjob: , you know.
So, heu, I agree with http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/viper_275.JPG275. :D

Sorry if I didn't make it clear. Lower the shield amounts in Cattaraugus and switch production to Palace. GL and HG both are 400 shields and so is Palace, IIRC. However, if other civs build those our prebuilds are gone, but that doesn't happen with palace.

lol @ palace stealing.


Isn't that when they come to call on your capital with a stack of tanks? :lol:

Isn't that when they come to call on your capital with a stack of tanks? :lol:
I hope not, but if so, we have spearmen! :spear: I hope we can read the rest of the turn log soon (@ King Alexander- You left us hanging ;) !)

I know that I left you hanging! Don't worry, a little meditation is a good idea, while you're waiting for my turns!(j/k).
I'll post the remaining turns when I get home, after work(after 9-10 hours from now, I'll have my post, posted!)

BTW: Good suggestion about the shields diet in Cattaraugus(personally, I'd also prefer HG and not the GL, but we might hold the production until we find Feudalism, and *if needed*, starve the city a bit: we can't throw away so many shields).
I'll see how things will go with the Chinese: if I can completely throw them out of our continent, I'll do it.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Vpr1_250AD.SAV)

150AD (5)
In the in-between, the Spanish built the ToA. Switch Cattaraugus to Palace.

I use the MGL and hurry the FP in Oka.

Siege of Tsingtao: 2 MW retreat red-lined, 1MW kills a spear and gets promoted to Elite(no hp loss), 3/4 MW kills the last spear(1 hp loss) and we take the city.

I kill 2 swords, near Xinjan. Our troops need to heal first, before we continue, although I have kept some for good usage!

IBT
The Vikings begin the MoM and the Great Wall.
Carthage begins the HG. The Mom, and the Great Wall.
The Celts begin the GW and the HG: the Celt city of Entremont, completes the Great Wall.
France begins the HG: the French city of Paris, completes the Hanging Gardens.

170AD (6)
MicroManage a lot of core cities, to avoid riots the next turn: WW begins to strike.

The Chinese city of Macao, proves more tough to break than their core cities! I lost 3MW over there: I’ll wait a little to gather more MW and strike again.

IBT
1 chinese archer kills 1 red-lined Elite MW(ouch).

Carthage begins the MoM, the GL and Sun Tzu’s(!).
The Carthaginian city of Carthage(go figure), completes MoM.
The Celts begin the GL.

190AD (7)
Siege of Xinjian: We kill 2 spears, 2MW’s retreated red-lined, and we take the city with another MW(2 hp’s lost).

Our galley that explores the other continent, red-lines from a barb galley, but survives.

210AD (8)
Siege of Chengdu: We kill 2 spears, and the city falls to our hands.

Siege of Macao: We finally kill the “tough” spear”, and the city belongs to our kingdom.

2 more Chinese cities remain on our continent.

Note: I didn’t left any troops inside the cities we’ve taken(fear for flip), except the turn that the cities fall to our hands, so we rebuff the rebels asap. However, there are troops in the area(outside the cities) to take them back, if needed.

IBT
A Chinese spear moves out of Tientsin (maybe he goes to take one of the undefended cities, but I bet he will be annihilated before he says “China”!).

230AD (9)
Siege of Tientsin: We lose a MW(spear promotes, left with 3 hp’s), we kill the second spear(MW red-lined), we lose another MW(spear promotes to Elite, 3/5), Elite MW takes out the Elite spear(MW is left with 2/5), but no MGL. We also capture 2 chinese workers(and a few more the previous turns, that I forgot to write).

Elite MW kills the spear who had exited Tientsin before, he kills him(get’s red-lined), but again no MGL (the RNG Gods weren’t by our side this time).

Shantung, is the only Chinese city left on our continent(west of our capital, to the end of the peninsula).

The game crushes, and I’m forced to reload and play the turn again(arghh)

We find Kawauka in the jungle, next to Sulcis(carthage city).

IBT
Another Chinese spear was near Tientsin as it seems, because I couldn’t see him(neither can now, but our MW will have him for lunch the next turn).

250AD (10)
We find Kente to the west in the peninsula, and we also destroy a barb camp nearby.

I notice with our galley that Shantung has an Elite spear: probably from barbs.

I raise the lux to 20% and make some taxmen where needed, and set a few cities to zero growth(again with taxmen, at least until we make peace treaty, that is. WW is becoming a problem).

Elite MW Secret Weapon, kills the hiding spearman, and red-lines(again, no MGL).

Summary
1) Watch out Beijing(has the Pyramids) and Shangai: they still have 1 resistor each. I have troops outside the previous cities, ready to take them back, if needed.
2) Beware of Chondote and Uskudar: they haven’t any culture and they’re just next to Celtic cities: better to have another unit fortified there, and rush the temples as soon as we have the money(I could rush one of them, but let’s hear the team’s opinion. Next player could do it).
3) I have a few MW inside Oka: we should watch this city, as it has the FP(I don’t want a sneak attack from the Celts).
4) I have 3 MW near Gewauga, and they go for Shantung(last Chinese city on our continent. Note: The spear in Shantung is Elite, so gather all the 3 MW before attacking, or wait the 4th MW who is on his way to the area.
Note, that there is a settler hiding behind our 2 workers in Gewauga: he could settle the area, if Shantung is razed. If not, settle the remaining land next to the Viking city).
5) We need to make Peace asap after Shantung falls. We need markets in all our core cities, libraries, courts, ect…
6) The Celts is our next target, but we should stay in peace for a while: WW is an issue, and we need to build infrastructure in our core cities.
7) Feudalism is 2 turns away: change the palace pre-build asap to Sun Tzu’s. We need to discuss what tech path we’ll follow. All the way to MT, maybe, and qonquer the world?
8) Important: watch for unhappiness problems, until we make peace and micromanage our cities.

Good luck to the next player.

Got it, I can play this right now (to anyone from Clive1 that might be reading this, don't be offended that I'm skipping my turns there in favor of this, but those late-game turns are very long and my one post in that thread should explain more.)

I played half of my turns. China is gone. Now it's just the Celts. They have both Settler-Escort pairs and regular units in our territory. I can tell them to move but that could cause war, otherwise I'd declare. My thought is to first get an embassy (only 48 gold) and see if they have iron or not. If they have iron, we can have them spend all of their money on Feudalism so that they can't build more Gallic Swordsmen. If they don't, declaring war now is fine, although we might want to give Feudalism to play safe if they do get iron. We have a couple small stacks near them and probably could do some damage. Any thoughts?

Last time I checked, at my ending turns, they hadn't connect their iron, because I could trade them iron(so, we don't need an embassy).

The thing is, that we could wait a few turns, so our core cities are done building their markets, so they could help us producing units.

Ok, establish an embassy and see what and how many units they have.One thing: gather most of our forces, if you're going to declare, so we can take them easily.

EDIT: We could always raze their cities, make settlers in the far-away cities that don't have enough production(but have enough pop), and settle our cities better positioned(and having the workers from the razed cities to help with the terrain).

I'd wait until we're capable of making units again before declaring on celts (if they don't have iron).

Does anyone have any thoughts on victory conditions yet? If we're going to be razing cities, we will probably not want to go for a diplomatic victory. I think that both cultural victory types will be difficult, if not impossible, at this point. So, I guess that leaves space ship, conquest, and domination.

All Celt cities, except Entremont, are size 6 or under. When I go to war with a civ that profits so much from The Great Wall, I usually try to conquer the city that contains it first. We know Entremont is somewhere N of Augustodurum. I suggest we try to put a good stack of MW in between Augustodurum and Agedincum ready to attack Entremont in 2t, then build the embassy. Once the stack of MW is big enough compared to the defenses seen in Entremont, DoW and quick conquest of Entremont. That way, the other Celt cities will not profit from The Great Wall and he would be an easy prey. :evil:

There is no rush to do that as the defenses in conquered chinese cities look weak. I agree with rrau on that. Wait until we can build military units again.

I have not really tought about victory condition.

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll finish the rest of my turns.

Turn 1
I'm pretty sure the in the IBT here we discovered Feudalism, might have been later.
Turn 2
Very little.
Turn 3
Shatung captured. :wavey: Goodbye, China!
Turn 4
None.
Turn 5
Kiahero founded.
Turn 6
*Yawn*
Turn 7
Barb galley destroyed our exploring galley :eek: .
Turn 8
Zzzzzz...
Turn 9
None, again.
Turn 10
Monotheism discovered, begin Theology.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/vpr1350bc.jpg

IMHO, we need to improve our infrastructure in our core cities and stay in peace for a while. Have all our core cities markets, libraries and courts(WW was a pain)? If they have, let them build units for the upcoming war.

I don't think the Celts can do much damage, when we'll declare. Our front cities to the Celt borders, need at least 2 spearmen once we go for war, as well as 1 MW ready to take out red-lined units.

Salamanca has barracks?(it hadn't in my turns): if not, we could find something else to build, until Sun Tzu's is completed.

The land around our core cities, must be improved first, and then go for the other cities. We only need to connect any unconnected cities now, and 1 worker(even a foreing) is enough for non-core cities.

Tech: we're aiming for other Wonders? We could go for Education, so we make the GL useless, and all the way to MT(cavs), or just go for MT and trade for the other techs.

IIRC Salamanca has barracks. WW was a little bit of a pain (I occassionally get that advisor pop-up that tells you the cities are in disorder.) Wonders... how about Smith's Trading Company? I definitely would want some cavs, but we might want to head to Economics and trade with other civs for the MT route, then get cavs. We could get them immediately, though. Oh, and Salamanca should keep making Settlers. I can't believe I forgot that :wallbash: .

I would like to try to get smith's. With most of the continent to ourselves, once we get steam and rails, it will be difficult for other civs to land and get a foothold. Therefore, I think we can wait on the cav and trade for MT when it's available.

I have lots of objections today, I guess that if I were a woman, I would be in my pms. :lol:

I agree that Smith's is an interesting wonder to have (so is JSBach IMHO), but I disagree researching towards it. We can easily trade the tech to at least university, once AI researches it (and they usually research it early in ma)
We have the best military on earth (well, that earth at least). I would prefer researching chivalry, then go for MT. The AI often research MT very close to the end of MA and cav are most efficient before nationalism. By researching it ourselves, we would get it much faster. I realized I have very slim chances of getting my wish because most of you are against me on this, but I have to try. :(
Maybe it is because I am a warmonger, but I think we have a shot at invading Scandinavia before they get their UU. By invading the other continent fast, we could have a domination victory before 1500AD (my fastest monarch victory is 850AD :cool: ).
Some very corrupted cities (Istanbul, Tatung, Tsientsin) are building libs. I think we should be considering switching to temple or courthouse. I do not think libs are useful for cities producing so few commerce.
We have a lot of MW as garrison. IMHO, AI sometimes decides to sneak-attack a city based on the defense of the garrison. I would prefer we build pikemen to replace the MW who could then go to the frontline. If the Celts decide to invade Kawauka with the 3 units near it, IMHO they would succeed.
We have lots of money, I guess the idea is to upgrade every possible units once Sun Tzu is finished.
Salamanca does not have a barrack and is far from good settling spots. Settlers should be built closer to their settling spots. Salamanca could build workers to clear marsh and jungle or a lib.


@rrau: I am not worried about other civ getting a foothold on our continent. I am much more preoccupied about us getting a foothold on the other continent! ;)

I agree that Smith's is an interesting wonder to have (so is JSBach IMHO), but I disagree researching towards it. We can easily trade the tech to at least university, once AI researches it (and they usually research it early in ma)efficient before nationalism. By researching it ourselves, we would get it much faster. I realized I have very slim chances of getting my wish because most of you are against me on this, but I have to try. :(
Smith's is pretty important, IMHO. You know what it does, right? Should help a lot on money later on. Also, we don't have to run toward it, just try to stay ahead of the AIs on it and get a good prebuild on it. However, as later mentioned, we can mass upgrade our MWs. So we probably should research Chivalry next.
Maybe it is because I am a warmonger, but I think we have a shot at invading Scandinavia before they get their UU
I doubt it. They're either 1 or 2 techs away from it. We'd have to get our MWs on boats and go to the other continent, and enough to do significant damage before Berserks. And Berserks... those are nasty little guys. I wouldn't want to get in a fight with them (6/2/1 plus amphibious as opposed to 4(2)/1/1)
We have the best military on earth (well, that earth at least). I would prefer researching chivalry, then go for MT. The AI often research MT very close to the end of MA and cav are most efficient before Nationalism. By invading the other continent fast, we could have a domination victory before 1500AD (my fastest monarch victory is 850AD :cool: ).
True, but who? Carthage has excellent defenders and both Vikings and France have good UU's coming up soon.
Some very corrupted cities (Istanbul, Tatung, Tsientsin) are building libs. I think we should be considering switching to temple or courthouse. I do not think libs are useful for cities producing so few commerce.
Sure that they don't have courthouses? If not I completely agree with you.
We have a lot of MW as garrison. IMHO, AI sometimes decides to sneak-attack a city based on the defense of the garrison. I would prefer we build pikemen to replace the MW who could then go to the frontline. If the Celts decide to invade Kawauka with the 3 units near it, IMHO they would succeed.
Only the Celts can give us a problem and they're too weak to do a whole lot. Besides, most of those MWs are way away from anyone that could hurt us (even AIs on the other continent) because it's mostly what used to be Chinese cities.
We have lots of money, I guess the idea is to upgrade every possible units once Sun Tzu is finished.
You've got it, especially important units. Important for our MWs.
Salamanca does not have a barrack and is far from good settling spots. Settlers should be built closer to their settling spots. Salamanca could build workers to clear marsh and jungle or a lib.
We can always send Settlers to the other continent. Those settling spots are also near the Celts, those cities should work on military and dealing with corruption.

I doubt it. They're either 1 or 2 techs away from it. We'd have to get our MWs on boats and go to the other continent, and enough to do significant damage before Berserks. And Berserks... those are nasty little guys. I wouldn't want to get in a fight with them (6/2/1 plus amphibious as opposed to 4(2)/1/1)
Actually, they are 3 techs away, but they may try to get a better gov before researching these. They are pretty small (11 cities including 3 cities far from their core cities), making them about as strong as the celts. I think we could damage them enough that the Berserks would come too late to save them.
... But it would require that we concentrate most of our efforts into this.
... And most of the team seems to prefer a more peaceful approach. I think we are more heading to a space race victory than a domination one, unless we are waiting to get tanks before invading the other continent.
... And I am thinking way too much in advance as we have to get rid of the Celts first. Once the Celts are history, we can reevaluate the situation.
Actually, I have a lot of points against me (some made by myself :crazyeye: ), so forget about it. It was just a thought.

i've got it but won't get to it until later today.

Thoughts are always welcome, they made me re-think this.
I think we are more heading to a space race victory than a domination one, unless we are waiting to get tanks before invading the other continent.
I kind of have a new plan now: attack Celts very soon, then secure the rest of this continent so that it isn't taken by other civs. We should get another galley out there to meet the rest of the civs. Once Numidian Mercenaries are mediocre defenders, we land a SoD next to Carthage (Cavs would work great here) and conquer them, perhaps with help, then take that continent from there. And besides, who says Domination and Space Race are the only 2 allowed victories? We could win something like Diplomatic :twitch: :joke: .

Edited: double post! Sorry everyone. A mod could delete this.

Here's is my suggestions:
1) Salamanca should not build any more settlers. It's useless to have any more cities: we should focus on military. If we want more settlers, let the corrupt cities with high pop build them and/or rush them after a few turns(even if we had to lose some shields, if we change our current production), OR we should capture the Celt/other cities on our continent.
Salamanca doesn't have yet a library? It's our capital...
We should focus to improve all the tiles around our core cities asap.
2) I'd go for Chivalry and all the way to MT. When education is available, we should trade for it. We need to keep producing MW's, upgrade them to Knights(and cavs later), and qonquer everyone. If we want a wonder, Bach's would be my choice(we have a large continent, and we'd bennefit from it, although this is Monarch and we could live without it), Copernicus and/or Newton's later.
When Education is available, built universities in all our core cities.
3) Vikings have the Berserk: so what? You don't go and wait them to attack, you attack them before with Knights(I'd attack them even with MW's), because they can retreat(Berserks cannot retreat). The movement advantage is something we should strategically use.
4) We should preparing for the Celts soon. Let our cities continue to build MW's: it's a very good UU. Gather our troops and go after them.
In my turns, I didn't build more than 3-4 MW's: those I had were enough, if used correctly.

1) Salamanca should not build any more settlers. It's useless to have any more cities: we should focus on military. If we want more settlers, let the corrupt cities with high pop build them and/or rush them after a few turns(even if we had to lose some shields, if we change our current production), OR we should capture the Celt/other cities on our continent.
Salamanca doesn't have yet a library? It's our capital... We should focus to improve all the tiles around our core cities asap.
I think there are 2 good reasons to keep making settlers. The first is to be able to continue to expand this continent, allowing a Domination victory. The other is to prevent other civs (I'm thinking especially about Carthage) off of a lot of the continent. We don't want to share it. Improving tiles sounds like a good idea, we have a Worker factory, right?
2) I'd go for Chivalry and all the way to MT. When education is available, we should trade for it. We need to keep producing MW's, upgrade them to Knights(and cavs later), and qonquer everyone. If we want a wonder, Bach's would be my choice(we have a large continent, and we'd bennefit from it, although this is Monarch and we could live without it), Copernicus and/or Newton's later.
When Education is available, built universities in all our core cities.
We can get Chivalry soon, probably next. I don't mind getting MT soon, but I think Smith's Trading Company would be very helpful.
Vikings have the Berserk: so what? You don't go and wait them to attack, you attack them before with Knights(I'd attack them even with MW's), because they can retreat(Berserks cannot retreat). The movement advantage is something we should strategically use.
Sounds logical because of their defense stat of 2, but it doesn't always work this way. You might occasionally even see a galley on your coast with them that will bug you, and if we're talking about their territory, you have to deal with fog and roads.
4) We should preparing for the Celts soon. Let our cities continue to build MW's: it's a very good UU. Gather our troops and go after them.
In my turns, I didn't build more than 3-4 MW's: those I had were enough, if used correctly.
I already have a nice little stack next to Entremont. As mentioned before, attack Entremont to get the Great Wall so the Celts have weaker defenses, then they should be easy to conquer.