As you might, or might not, be aware, the version is Vanilla Civ 3, as posted in this announcement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?f=110).

The reason is that switching now, before a final patch of C3C is released will likely cause too much people not being able to join.

But just plain VC3 might be too boring for some. So perhaps a mod can be created, variant rules can be introduced, a map can be designed, or we can play on earth, or ....
Perhaps we prefer plain VC3, anything is possible,

Join this discussion, we can make VC3 more enjoyable ! Express your thoughts here on how to do that.

Were it not for complexity, I'd strongly advocate DYP. It'd be different, I can tell you that. I hope we shall, though I warn you that it is complex, and we'd best try a lower level then general (Regent would be good) and work from there. There are a few, myself included, who have some familiarity, and we could mine their (our) skill to the breaking point to try to get stuff done. Well, let us choose wisely is the best advice I have.

Does DYP work on Macs ?

Also, do you need anything beyond Vanilla CIV3 to run it? That question should have a 'no' answer for any mod suggested here, or it defeats the whole purpose of staying with that version.

It should, since mods don't require .exe's to run. (Not so sure about animations, but I would assume they're the same).

I'd like to try a world map, although the problem is that we'd know where everyone starts. I'm not sure if I have a "normal" vanilla Civ3 world map (I have Marla's, but the rivers are buggy on that one). I could still easily make a world map using a world map image somewhere in the C&C forum. We could make it realistic (i.e., no horses in the Americas), but that'd be a problem for the Iroquois, unless we gave them a different UU.


On the issue of mods like DyP, many have gone to PTW and C3C, so it may be hard to find a vanilla Civ3 version.

5CC challenge was shot down... but I really dont wanna play a regular game

Does DYP work on Macs ?
We can ask the makers of DYP since I do beleve that the mod for Vannila Civ3 is compadible with the Mac version.

I have no idea if DyP is compatable with Macs. I'd recomend asking the designers.

I have no idea if DyP is compatable with Macs. I'd recomend asking the designers.


It should be mac compatible if we can have the files themselves instead of the dreaded .exe installer program. The mac version (1.29ß2) is 100% compatible with the PC version (1.29g), bit by bit and byte per byte, as far as the .bic files and the game ressources are concerned.

I have the final DYP update (1.01r) for Civ3 on my computer in .exe, .zip, .ace, and .rar format. Is that all you would need?

I just checked on the DYP's Download size. I beleve we should not use this if we have 56k users that want to partisipate in the Demogame.

I just checked on the DYP's Download size. I beleve we should not use this if we have 56k users that want to partisipate in the Demogame.

On or those 56k users...:(

But if we did the DyP mod I would download it...even it took hours...

As I was going to say... DyP for vanilla Civ3 is 60 megs, and even that might be an unfinished version. It would require that some 25+ users install DyP. Some might either not know how, or won't bother with it.

As I was going to say... DyP for vanilla Civ3 is 60 megs, and even that might be an unfinished version. It would require that some 25+ users install DyP. Some might either not know how, or won't bother with it.
Which is why it is better, IMO, to use just a standard vannila civ.

what is dyp?

DyP = Double Your Pleasure. It's a modpack with tons of techs, tons of governments, and tons of units. When I say tons, mean TONS! The techs fill up every free space on the tech advisor screen!

DyP = Double Your Pleasure. It's a modpack with tons of techs, tons of governments, and tons of units. When I say tons, mean TONS! The techs fill up every free space on the tech advisor screen!
That would be great to play!

Not so great for those with modems... or who aren't too familar with it. I could imagine some PIs if say, we picked France, built a few Serfs (France's "worker UU" in that modpack I think), and the DP accidently hit "B", founding a new city. ;)


Another thought - We could even go for a world map if we wanted. (After the settings discussion is done, we can vote on that, and decide between that setting, and a modpack).

At least it will be a challenge as very few seem to have experience with DYP.
But let's not limit this discussion to DYP, there are other alternatives. Cyc send me an email with a concept this morning which I'll try tonight.

DYP might be cool though we might want to have an extended group training period or we might have no clue how to proceed correctly. That would certainly spice things up.

Maybe we could get a GOTM style scenario file which will make vanilla more like PTW and Conquests.

DYP might be interesting, but I'd prefer sticking with vanilla civ or an expansion. I'd rather we not go into mods; I like the game just fine as it is, and it would take us a considerable amount of time to relearn strategy and how to play the game effectively with DYP.

Well I got an idea!!

How about whatever government we change too, thats how we rule. We have been democracy for all the DGs. When can still call it the DemoGame but if we choose monarchy to rule, we should have king or queen.

Another idea...

I am working on a new form of government called Constitutional Monarchy. Nobody else has made it except those who put it in those mods... I am almost done except one thing. Add the arrow to that tech. I made the Constitutional Monarchy tech an off shoot the Fuedilism tech. I am thinking about changing it to Magnitism or Astronomy. We can use that tech and I could finish it up.

What do you say??

Well I got an idea!!

How about whatever government we change too, thats how we rule. We have been democracy for all the DGs. When can still call it the DemoGame but if we choose monarchy to rule, we should have king or queen.

I like that idea alot, but I am not sure how it could be implemented. :confused:

I like that idea alot, but I am not sure how it could be implemented. :confused:

This might be an interesting concept if it were fleshed out some more. We would still have to elect a monarch, as otherwise it would defeat the whole purpose. However, he could still have advisors and such that could, if they formed a strong enough majority, displaced him/her.

Run with it and see what happens...

I don't think it is really a change. Even despots have advisors, only the despot decides to listen or ignore their advice. And the "will of the people" is always ignored. But what's really different about democracy then ? Elected leaders also ignore the "will of the people" in RL.

It would make for an interesting game of politics, as we would set the number of votes required to replace a leader at a very high percentage, and that leader would be replaced by another despot anyway...Those that followed the will of the people to some extent would be more likely to remain in office, but as long as they even pleased a significant minority of the people, it would be very difficult to replace them. Thus, monthly elections would be of the utmost importance, as most likely, the winner would have almost complete control for that month. Of course, to get elected again, he would have to please a large number of the people. Anyway, I think it would be interesting...

Hmm...I know...

Well we could still have advisors. We could have a Paraliment but that is Constitutional Monarchy....The Paraliment is like a congress but whatever gov we choose, we rule like that...

If we were communism, we the people say that we are the group of the communist government we vote for whice one is better....then he/she is the communist. But it would have advisors to tell what would be good but the Communist gets to choose what to do if he/she doesn't like it. It would change the game a lot but we need a change....

Well I got an idea!!

How about whatever government we change too, thats how we rule. We have been democracy for all the DGs. When can still call it the DemoGame but if we choose monarchy to rule, we should have king or queen.

Another idea...

I am working on a new form of government called Constitutional Monarchy. Nobody else has made it except those who put it in those mods... I am almost done except one thing. Add the arrow to that tech. I made the Constitutional Monarchy tech an off shoot the Fuedilism tech. I am thinking about changing it to Magnitism or Astronomy. We can use that tech and I could finish it up.

What do you say??

That idea was started by Strider back in DG2 I think. (or maybe as early as DG1, unless I'm thinking of Ehecatl's Game of Therocracy). One of the problems back then was, "Do we change the ruleset everytime we do that?". We'd need pre-defined rulesets for every game if we did that.

It was also proposed by me a while ago. Dropped because it would be too hard to do. :D

We could write something in the Constitution to say how we control everything with each government. So if we go to (gov) we have to do (whatever) and the list would grow. It wouldn't be too hard.

Lets give it a try!!:D

We only switch govs once in the whole DG...

Hmm...

If it weren't for the high probability that it would result in lots of international shipping, I'd say lets burn 40 or so CDs of DyP and ship it to the modem users, and then there would be no issues with going ahead and using it. :D

Buying PC's for the mac users so we could go ahead and play conquests would be a bit out of reach... :eek:

Maybe we could get a GOTM style scenario file which will make vanilla more like PTW and Conquests.

BTW this GOTM scenario already exists at GOTM scenario (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89384)

The GOTM *IS* a scenario now... and has been for months. (Even some of the Firaxians called it a "Scenario of the Month" when I was at Firaxis. ;))

Well I got an idea!!

How about whatever government we change too, thats how we rule. We have been democracy for all the DGs. When can still call it the DemoGame but if we choose monarchy to rule, we should have king or queen.
Let's keep this a game of Democracy. It would be a really hard thing to implement, and just imagine the legal disputes caused by government switching (five different rulesets, one for each government, would get confusing). Plus, I rather like the idea of being able to vote on everything, rather than leave it up to a small group of people (one person in despotism).

I thought in RL Consitutional Monarchies, the King and Queen were just figure heads of the government like in Modern England. ;)

How about no modding, but we force ourselves to play an honourable game throughout? This means that we NEVER initiate a war, and cannot ally with more than one nation if war is declared upon us. Also, there should be limits on what we can dupe the AI out of when it comes to tech trades. It seems that as soon we reach the late Middle Ages the AI will shell out just about anything for a decent tech, diminishing their competitive threat in the process.

Wouldn't it be nice to play a game once where we weren't really in control of our destiny? Since the majority wants to play on Monarch or lower, we will have to set our own handicaps and possibly work them into law(a time-based, evolving secondary ruleset based on in-game decisions that donsig has championed for quite some time). Or we just go thru the motions on the way to another predictable Fanatican victory.

What say you, Fanatica?

Handicaps, variants, mods, call it what you want. I agree with it. But it shouldn't make an office non-functional. Example: Always war variant: Foreign affairs and Trade are non-functional quickly.

I think we can gain the most by changing / modding the rules in the editor. But only in a way which lowers the human effectiveness against the AI while not hurting the AI a lot.

random ideas:
- make luxuries appear with techs, for instance with Philosphy. Or perhaps even later: Engineering or perhaps even Economics.
- Make all resources jump around like Iron does.
- Can only form an army if you have 10 cities.
- Barb units: spear and knight.
- Remove cats, cannons, arties and bombers.

- etc.

No thoughts on my proposal ?

I had an idea: Always War, check out this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90967

Always war is fun and hard, but has a big disadvantage for a DemoGame; the offices of Trade and Foreign affairs have nothing to do.

You know, I just thought of another reason not to play C3C when Rik mentioned the SPHQ in the other thread.

The Corruption Model changed. There's no 2 cores, so if we have many provinces, there will be a lot of corrupt provinces that serve no purpose other than to grow and have excess citizens as scientists or taxmen. Not the most fun thing for governors.

But... we could add a C3C flavor to a modpack, like taxmen and scientists having the increased values. Armies could have some increased values, too. (They're not as useful in vanilla, since I'd rather have 4 tanks attacking seperately (8 times) than 4 tanks in an army attacking twice).

I know that this goes against all the settings we've decided, but I saw this in the User Created Maps forum and I figured playing on this would be more interesting.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=91702

Another thing we could do is have someone who doesn't want a part in the game to make a similar map, but meeting our standards. Since the map is for C3C [though I don't know how maps can only work on one version], we might need to do that anyway. But I still like the concept of having certain luxuries only in certain regions. This would be easier than getting a special mod to delay luxuries.

Interesting map... a trade map. Diplomacy is required to achive resource... or war ;)
And let's move on to C3C!

Interesting map... a trade map. Diplomacy is required to achive resource... or war ;)
And let's move on to C3C!
its already been decided we would use vanilla and custom map lost in the poll on it

By the way, what "Vanilla Civ3" is? A mod for Civ3?

No, basic civ 3.

WE WANT DG5 FORUMS! :lol:

I don't have vanilla civ3, only ptw :sad:
I guess I can't be a citizen :cry:

msz, that only matters if you're the President. You can load vanilla Civ files from PTW. Heck, I found myself with only PTW for 3 months while I was a Governor.

and i dont even know where my civ 3 disc is so youve got better chances than some :)

Noldodan: aren't trade sucess rates slightly different in PTW compared to CivIII?

Noldodan: aren't trade sucess rates slightly different in PTW compared to CivIII?
Maybe? I dunno. But it shouldn't make very much of a difference, even if one were to be Trade minister.

During my tenures as trade minister, I do remember PTW had different possibilities for renegotiating peace as vanilla did.

would it not work just using the vanilla civ disc? therefore only playing civ3 or is that a problem?

msz, that only matters if you're the President. You can load vanilla Civ files from PTW. Heck, I found myself with only PTW for 3 months while I was a Governor.
Thanks. I registered as a citizen but have much to learn about demogame. I only readed constitution :crazyeye: and I heve to read two other books :sleep: bureaucracy, bureaucracy and more bureauracy groucho GREAT :clap:

Thanks. I registered as a citizen but have much to learn about demogame. I only readed constitution :crazyeye: and I heve to read two other books :sleep: bureaucracy, bureaucracy and more bureauracy groucho GREAT :clap:

msz, we're not going to be using those books for this game. In fact, we're still discussing what the new books are going to say! So you actually don't need to read all that.

Now im intensely confused, RM said in the chat room that their are no changes to the CoL and the CoS. And they are referenced in the "what is the demogame?" thread. But through oue entire contitutional work they have never been referenced once.

This needs a quick discussion to clarify.

msz, we're not going to be using those books for this game. In fact, we're still discussing what the new books are going to say! So you actually don't need to read all that.
Oh.... I did't know. I just readed that propaganda post "I'm newbie...bla bla bla" and they tell to read 3 books :nono: so i read.

Oh.... I did't know. I just readed that propaganda post "I'm newbie...bla bla bla" and they tell to read 3 books :nono: so i read.
I've updated the thread, sorry about the confusion.

So... Could someone direct me to a DYP download that isn't .exe and is for Vanilla? Mac's cannot extract exe's. (I don't think...)

I would like Vanilla removed from the terminology of the DG 5, as I find it distasteful to have such a flavor signifyin the original ruleset. I would like to change that to CIV3 Original, which is more intuitive and straight forward.

PS - I never like Vanilla Coke, Milli Vanilli or other brands including Vanilla :)

I dunno, I think vanilla gives the terminology a bit more flavour to it than original

*groans*

Just think of it as Vanilla ice cream!:)

im more partial to chocolate ice cream but chocolate civ doesnt really work now does it? :)