The variant rule is that at end of turn, the number of cities other than capital cannot exceed number of great wonders we built. Small wonders don't count.

We'll start as an OCC game, but since we can build extra cities as the game goes, it is easier than OCC. It's most likely an emperor game, but it could be demigod if we can get some top players. Our goal is 20K culture win in the capital.

You should be very comfortable with emperor level, and preferrably have had 20K win before.

As I want to discourage wars, captured wonders don't count.

I hate writing rules so I'll just say we cherish our rep and do not use exploits. If you have experience with SGs you should have a good idea of what I mean.

CIV is up to debate, and I currently prefer Russia as I've never played them before and their traits are nice. Greece is another choice. Yes I do want the scientific trait.

Map is standard continent, again, up to debate.

Sign up (full):
- microbe
- Kaiser_Berger
- grs
- Kiech (need to check in)
- Ankka
- TheNemesis666

I'd suggest the Byzantines as our civ rather than the Greeks. We'll be small, so the Commercial trait would be well-nigh useless., making Greece (and Korea) less than optimal. Russia is good, too, though.

I would join, but I'm going away in a couple of days.

I agree commercial isn't of much use to us. The only reason I mentioned Greece was hoplites. Maybe Sumeria is a better choice than Greece.

Byzantine is great, but it's so great that I've overplayed it. We can certainly play it if other people want. :)

CVN, how long will you be away? I hope not too long.

I'll join as this seems like a fun idea. I've managed to eek out an OCC 20k win on Demigod before, so I think Demigod is doable for this variant.

Welcome Kaiser. I'll see what others think about the level.

Since this game is semi-OCC, I'd like 6 players instead of 5, as it will go pretty fast. Two slots still open (and warning: I'll be strict about 24/48 hour rule). I'll start it with another signup.

Each player please tell me your preference of the civ/level/map.

Tag

I'm going to watch this game. Just tagging it so I can find it easier.

I think the Russians sound good as a civ. Out of the scientific civs, I think expansionist is the best secondary trait we can get. The Byzantines are of course quite powerful in this type of game, but I agree, they are overplayed.

I'd like to sign up. Russia is fine with me - did not play them for a long time - Egypt would be nice too - we could stay with 1 worker for a longer time. I'd like emperor level and standard continents map is fine with me too.

You should be very comfortable with emperor level, and preferrably have had 20K win before.

Both true (while my last 20k was OCC Monarch IIRC). It was not mentioned, but I guess we are going for a 20k win!? (diplo, space?)

Yes our goal is 20K win.

I'll start it as emperor. The reason is that we won't have palace as prebuild in the capital, unless we build a wonder, create a city and use the second city for 20K, but that would be too late I guess?

This looks interesting... only 3 SG's for me now, so I shall have time, if you take me. :)

I'm also keen if you'll have me. I normally play Emp, just starting to try out demi.

Nem.

edit: what version? c3c 1.22?

I would use the capital as wonder city. Only sad we won't have a cheap temple to start with.

OK the roster is full. I had to skip CVN as she will be away for 3 weeks, a little too long I think.

So the only thing to discuss is CIV.

I'm happy with russia. worker speed from ind. is a good point though, but I'd probably suggest otto's over egypt, sci trait will give cheaper lib/uni (better culture than religious) and also give us free techs which will help out slightly with the restricted economy due to less cities.

I mentioned Greece, not Egypt.

Seems most people are fine with Russia, so I'll start with it tonight unless I hear some strong complaints.

Russia is cool, although I did play my own OCC SG with that but it was a while ago so it doesn't matter. :)


Is this C3C 1.22?

Checking in. Sorry, I haven't been around for a few days.

No complaints about the Ruskies. All I hope for is a city by the sea...and a river...and maybe some resourses/luxuries nearby...heh, on second thought, I hope for a good game. Seems we have a good lineup, I can't wait to start!

4000BC: We have 4 BG and a Tobacco, next to river and coast. Not too bad.

3950BC: Moscow founded and start another scout. Research on CB. Hut gives us Warrior Code. Our opponents are China, India, Ottoman, Germany and Aztecs.

3750BC: Hut gives us 25g. scout->warrior.

3650BC: Hut gives map.

3550BC: Hut gives map again. :mad:

3300BC: We meet India. He is up Alphabet and CB, and lacks BW, Pottery and WC. I get Alphabet+CB+3g by WC+Pottery. I start min on Writing.

3150BC: We meet ottomans. He is up Masonry and lacks Pottery, Alphabet and CB.

2850BC: We meet China. He is up Masonry and down Alphabet+CB. It pays off not to have traded with Ottoman as China pays Masonry+23g for CB.

2710BC: Pottery+31g to Ottoman for a worker.

2590BC: India has Wheel. Masonry+31g for a trade. We have horses just outside of our border! Another horse two tiles away.

2350BC: India settles a city one turn before us and eats a hut.

2310BC: We get a warrior from hut. Ottoman has Mysticism, and Wheel+6g gets it.

2190BC: China has Iron Working! It would be good to know where iron is before we settle the next city.

2150BC: I sell Mysticism to India for 113g, and buy Iron Working from China with Wheel+Mysticism+162g. I want to keep Alphabet away from AI as much as possible. There are two sources of iron in the far south!

We are already paying 2gpt for unit support. We have almost fully explored our continent, so I guess we can disband some scouts when they are not needed anymore. The conscript warrior should probably return home. We probably do not want to settle our second city so far away. With very few cities we can buy resources relatively cheaply anyway.

After Colossus let's build a warrior, a settler, and a curragh to explore around the coast, then maybe a couple more warrior/spear, then start on Pyramids as prebuild for MoM.

We'll research Writing in 24 turns. We should be the first. Then go full research on Philosophy. Then we can take CoL and start researching either Republic or Literature.

The wonder path: I'd like to get MoM and then the Great Library. Pyramids is nice too, but since we won't have too many cities, it won't be of much use, and also it takes too long to build and would delay GL and our third city. Thoughts?

Red is iron, yellow is lux.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-2150BC.jpg

10-turn each from now on.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger - up
grs - on deck
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666

I have one though on our research path. Do we want to try the Republic gambit? I think it's possible to pull it off, especailly since we'll get another city fairly soon. We have a while until we really need to decide, as we've got a while to go on writing yet.

I've got it, and I'll play later today.

I am not sure. Normally at Emperor I do not dare to try this as it's quite risky.

What is the Republic gambit? never heard of it IIRC...:hmm:

It's where you research Code of Laws first, then hop ethat you still get Philosophy first so you can take the Republic as your free tech.

It's where you research Code of Laws first, then hop ethat you still get Philosophy first so you can take the Republic as your free tech. /delurk Which works really nice. Have completed the gambit a few times. /lurking

If we do the republic gambit we may have to stray from the proposed wonder path. We will have the Colossus in 8 and writing in 24. If we do CoL and then Philosophy we will have to rely on the Oracle and the Pyramids as wonder builds. If the AI gets both wonders before we have Philosophy we may lose all our shields. If not we should chose the Oracle.

I think we should let the game develop a bit further. If we are confident that we can get the Pyramides too, we could try the republic gambit, time will tell us more on our chances.

Edit:
After Colossus let's build a warrior, a settler, and a curragh to explore around the coast, then maybe a couple more warrior/spear, then start on Pyramids as prebuild for MoM.

If we do not do the republic gambit, I agree. If we try to get the Pyramids we will have to build no more warriors/spears in between.

@microbe: what are the excact settings of this map, especially: what bararian setting did you use? If we have sedentary we could go with less protective units. I don't fear the AI on emperor that soon in the game.

Barb setting is default. Map is standard continent with 70% water.

No AI has started any wonder yet. But I agree if we do the Republic gambit (which I am still not sure) we should build Oracle first. Cheap wonders == faster expansion.

But I'm not worried about Barbs. I worry about AI. If we have too little defense they WILL sneak attack. Never ever leave a town empty.

Preturn- We look good. Colossus in 8.

IT- zzz

T1 2110

Moscow grows to six, but requires no additional lux.

IT- zzz

T2 2070

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T3 2030

India now has IW too.

IT- zzz

T4 1990

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T5 1950

Ottomans have IW too. I decide to grab it from China for The Wheel and 120g. I decided to trade the Wheel and gold instead of Alphabet so we can keep them from the writing branch of the tech tree for as long as possible.

IT- zzz

T6 1910

Moscow is now size 7. I up the lux to keep it in order. Colossus in 2.

IT- Our southern scout gets whacked by barbs.

T7 1870

Nothin new.

IT-

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3.JPG

We set Moscow to warrior.

T8 1830

With the increased income from the Colossus, we can drop our lux rate back to 30.

IT- Moscow-warrior-settler

T9 1790

Not much new. With the new MP, we can drop lux to 20.

IT- zzz

T10

Nothing new.



Afterthoughts

No one has started any wonders yet, so we can probably get the Oracle if we start it after the settler. I think we're in a good position to try the Republic gambit. After checking the F10 screen, the only other commercial civ in the game aside from Inida is the Iroquois, so its doubtful that the other continent will be getting down the writing path any faster tahn us. If we settle our next city on the river, we should be able to research at a fast enough pace to pull it off. Ideally we'd get Philosophy, take Republic, revolt, form our republic, and build the MoM a turn or two later to spark our golden age.

Ottomans have IW too. I decide to grab it from China for The Wheel and 120g. I decided to trade the Wheel and gold instead of Alphabet so we can keep them from the writing branch of the tech tree for as long as possible.

Hmm? I already bought Iron Working. Did I upload a wrong save or sth? Maybe I did the trade after I saved the file. Anyway, not a big deal.

I think we should build a temple before another wonder? After all we are going for 20K, and an early temple is worth a lot, not mentioning the happiness.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs - up
Kiech - on deck
Ankka
TheNemesis666

Got it!

On the temple: In 4 turns we will produce 12 shields. With the settler due in 2 we need to switch production to the forest for 1 turn and will then get the temple in 5. Just because it works out that nice in 5 turns we should do the temple first.

On the next city: as we won't get that many that fast I'd like a bit more input. If we want to place it on the river this seems best to me.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-2nd_city.jpg

Another idea might be to go for the furs

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-2nd_city_2.jpg

Yeah, I was thinking of either of those sites. It just depends on what we feel we need first, the river or the furs.

It's a tough call, the river city would get two BG tiles immediately. But I guess I'd still go for the furs..the second city for a long time will be producing military and workers/settlers I guess.

hey guys, just a quick post to say i'll be away on a work trip for the next two days. don't think i'll be up before I'm back but I'll check as soon as I return and play immediately if I am.

(and I reckon the furs too, river would be nice but so would lux, lux will keep more people happy in our wonder city for cheaper)

I'd go for the river, the river is always good, so we don't need an aqueduct. :)

With only a few cities and slow growth we'll want big, effective cities, so OCP would be good IMHO, we want to use all the tiles possible.

PreTurn: find a scout in Moscow
IBT: nothing
1725BC: nothing
IBT: Moscow settler-temple
1700BC: see that I miscalculated the temple by 4 shields...disbanding the scouts would get us where we need to
IBT: nothing
1675BC: nothing
IBT: nothing
1650BC: disband 2 scouts at Moscow
IBT: nothing
1625BC: nothing
IBT: nothing
1600BC: St. Petersburg founded at the furs
IBT: Moscow temple - The Oracle
1575BC: nothing
IBT: nothing
1550BC: nothing
IBT: nothing
1525BC: nothing
IBT: nothing
1500BC: nothing

The Oracle is due in 22 - though it will get it a bit sooner. We will learn writing in 4.

We need to decide on "The Rebuplic Gambit". As India still misses writing I say we try it and go for CoL at max next. We should slot in a curragh after The Oracle is finished, as we could build it in one turn then. Not sure if we want OCP, but Moscow should be able to work all its tiles.

Proposed next city in a food rich region.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-1500BC1.jpg

I like that next city spot... nice bonus food. We need workers, we want to have our possibly very small area developed to the max.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs - on deck
Kiech - up
Ankka
TheNemesis666

Our second city should probably switch to a rax before producing more military. We need some vet spearmen and horsemen.

The blue dot seems fine, and it would come closer to the iron?

EDIT: I would have built a curragh first.

EDIT: I would have built a curragh first.
We could not have built it in one round back then. I did not want to waste a single turn.

Hmm, but there are a lot of wonders to build. I don't think we are in such a big hurry..

Got it. Let's see what I can do here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3dumbotto.jpg

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mc3-1250BC.SAV)

Pre-flight: Not much to tell. I could trade for horseback writing, but its not necessary right now, so I leave it be. I really want to see what is on that island just next to us, a curgah might be in order. I think that settling on the silks or ivory, or some iron would be a better city choice than flood plain land. We definatley need extra workers. No idea why the workers are making a mine for st peter instead of getting the roads connected. Lux tax can be set for 10%. No way to improve our science.

IBT: St Peter: warrior -> worker

(1)1475: :sleep:

(2)1450: Lux to 20% as Moscow grows. I set the town to grow rather than produce...

(3)1425: :sleep:

IBT: India demands 28g...I cave. He has just learned mathmatics. Chineese are building the pyramids, and I start on code of laws.

(4)1400: China and the Otto have Polytheism. Time to trade out Alphabet. Alpha to Otto for HBR and 130g. Alphabet and 279g to China for Polytheism. Polytheism to Gandi for MM and 40g.

(5)1375: :sleep:

IBT: Pete makes a worker and move on to temple.

(6)1350: The new worker starts on the furs.

(7)1325: Workers finish road to Pete. Now all three are working on the furs. Gandi has 2 workers for sale...but apparently he is now talking to the chineese or the automans, so all I have for trade is writing, and I decide to hold it.

(8)1300: :sleep:

IBT: Furs are connected. 2 Automan archers are marching towards Pete...heh.

(9)1275: Lux goes down, sci goes up. Change Pete to a warrior.

IBT: Automans are DEFINATLEY poised to attack. China is building Zeus.

(10)1250: Well, if Otto is gonna make a stupid move on us, I am going to take all of his gold. I setup a 'loan', then tell him to leave. He declares.

Debreifing: Telling the computer to start the next turn isn't mine to do, so you will find that the AI will attack you with the archers as soon as you start up the save. I didn't reset the science, so please do so. Anyways, on my own, I did play ahead to see how bad it would be, and we ended up with an elite warrior.

A sneak attack is almost guaranteed to come if we have too little military. We should make military a highest priority in our second town. I didn't open the save so I don't know how many units we have.

Kiech: I don't quite get your last sentence, but if you mean you played an extra turn after the save, please leave the spoiler information to yourself.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs - on deck
Kiech
Ankka - up
TheNemesis666

And those battles can change a lot depending on the RNG...

Why do I get the sneak attack- turns?

Oh well... I'll try to play tonight, so consider this a got it.

Playing now, preper for a mess.

1250BC [Preturn]: CHeck to see where we are going.

Those Ottoman archers may be a threat, we must win at least one battle. Two regular archers attacking two regular warriors... or maybe I should attack? :hmm:

I have no other choice but ress enter and wish the best.

IBT: Our warrior wins them losing one hp alltogether and promotes first veteran, then elite. :D

Two more Ottoman units come into view.

St.Petersburg warrior > warrior.

1225BC [1]: The Ottoman units are a warrior and a spear. the spear might cause trouble... switch Petersburg to archer.

IBT: The Otto guys just sit there. :hmm:

1200BC [2]: Notice we aren't researching at all. Set science to 70%, we get CoL in 15 @ +1gpt.

1175BC [3] - 1050BC [8]: :sleep:

IBT: Petersburg archer > settler. The Oracle is ready soon, we want to use the possibility to get a city.

1025BC [9]: Move the elite warrior and archer S of Petersburg.

1000BC [10]: I'll let the next better player to decide whether he wants to attack the Ottoman units or not.


Oracle is due in 2, I don't know what to build after it, ToA could be a good one, only the Indians are building it, and in a size 1 city... we should be able to get it.

Save and screenie. :)


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1000BC.jpg

So we survived. No attack from a warrior on a fortified spear!

I'll look at the save tonight. I have some questions to answer:
1. should we build oracle or not? normally it's a junk wonder. How about Pyramids? At least as a deny to the AI it would be very useful, and help our growth too.
2. should we build a rax and a couple of spears in our second town first? It also depends on question 1 - if we build Oracle the capital can work on military for a while before MoM is available. In any case we have to have a military town! I don't want to be sneak attacked again, especially when expansion is close to over.

No attack from a warrior on a fortified spear!
There's a reg archer under the elite warrior. :p I don't know if it is very clever, though, still, to attack...

1. should we build oracle or not? normally it's a junk wonder. How about Pyramids? At least as a deny to the AI it would be very useful, and help our growth too.
We could get the Pyramids in less then 10 turns... would be good one to get it, especially to get the AI power down. :)

2. should we build a rax and a couple of spears in our second town first?
The settler can be vetoed by next player. :)

So we survived. No attack from a warrior on a fortified spear!

I'll look at the save tonight. I have some questions to answer:
1. should we build oracle or not? normally it's a junk wonder. How about Pyramids? At least as a deny to the AI it would be very useful, and help our growth too.
2. should we build a rax and a couple of spears in our second town first? It also depends on question 1 - if we build Oracle the capital can work on military for a while before MoM is available. In any case we have to have a military town! I don't want to be sneak attacked again, especially when expansion is close to over.

1. If we can get the Pyramids for sure we should switch - although at least one AI is building it. We have to avoid getting no wonder through a cascade.
2. I would not build military in Moscow if we can avoid it. We want a curragh (or maybe even two) and then start for the next wonder which will be the Mausoleum.

If Pyramids can be built within 10 turns, definitely we should go for it. When did AI start building wonders? I'll have to check the save more carefully before we make a decision.

I agree that we should take the Pyramids if the AI is being slow in building them. Provided we have Polytheism, we can then use the ToA as a prebuild for MoM after we get out a curragh or two. The ToA is so dreadfully expensive that I doubt we have to worry about anyone building it before we get Philosophy.

So go for Pyramids. Since we have ToA as backup, there is no fear that we'll lose the cascade. Then we can time a good prebuild for MoM.

microbe - on deck
Kaiser_Berger
grs
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666 - up

The only problem is that the MoM is so cheap... we'll lose shields anyway unless we build the whole ToA...

Don't see us losing shields. We get The Pyramids in about 10, then we build a curragh and maybe some military, then start the prebuild (ToA for MoM). We will have researched CoL in 5 (screenshot) as without being able to look at the save, I predict we will have Philosophy before we accumulated the shields for MoM - especially since we can time it as we like. So I see no problem here. We should be able to time it so we get the MoM as soon as possible since we will go for the GL next.

I will be away from tomorrow, the 29th, to Sunday the 1st of August.

If we miss Pyramids then we can go for ToA.

That is true, but it will take longer.

this is a got it. I've just returned from a work trip and I am still at work at the moment, should be able to play and post in about 8 hours.

Make sure you read the discussion. Switch Oracle to Pyramids and watch Ottoman. I wouldn't mind if we make peace asap, and switch the settler to rax and build some spears.

I'd had a quick read over it but was intending to read it all before starting.

Caution: Building the pyramids will cause a major cascade...and we might not get MoM or the Library.

I don't understand. Is Philosophy or Literature already known? Even so, whatever we do wouldn't matter, unless we get the two techs within 2 turns.

I am saying that when I build the pyramids, the other civs are able to cascade onto the other wonders that I prefer to build.

Which wonders? Nobody can build MoM or Great Library yet. Pyramids is what we want to build now. In fact it helps to end the cascade I think.

Kiech: sorry, your reasoning is not understandable. It may have been the case in some of your games, if that is what you like to say, but otherwise microbe is right.

The point is: we won't know if the unmet civs have philosophy until we learn it. Keep building the pyramids, by all means, but except for denial purposes, I don't see it as a real boon to our game.

Edit: I realize that I am tired right now, and have been sweating my butt off all day waiting for the AC guy to come save me from my 100F apartment. But: building the pyramids won't stop the cascade, as the other civs will simply move to ToA then cascade to my beloved MoM(which I think we should build instead) and remove our possibility of grabbing the lighthouse.

The ToA cost around 500 shields, IIRC. The Pyramids are only 300, I think. Even if an AI was about to complete the Pyramids when we complete them, when they switch over to the ToA, they'll still have a ways to go to build it, even with emperor level production bonuses. Our prebuild for MoM shouldn't be threatened at all.

Kiech: your point taken, but that's a too general one IMHO. Consider our particular game: we either build oracle in 2 turns or pyramids in less than 10. How does building pyramids make the cascade worse? In general, the more expensive a wonder we build, the more likely we are going to end the cascade since AI will be forced to switch to cheap wonders. As you said AI would still switch to ToA, but that's always true regardless what we do.

So I still don't get what you mean. Oracle is a useless wonder. If we spend 8 more turns and get Pyramids that would be far worth it. We are not in a hurry to finish a wonder, as we lack military and Philosophy is still many turns away.

sorry guys, went to bed early last night but came home from work sick today so i'm about to start playing, will post shortly.

edit: have read through everything now too, I reckon pyra's too. If i can get peace with the ottos, i'll try time a settler build about the same time.

@microbe: we can't have more cities than wonders, what about settlers? Can I have him built, moved and on the square ready to settle, just awaiting the completion of the pyra's?

We can build settlers as we want, but can't settle without enough wonders.

I'm not sure how our military looks like. If too weak I'd delay settler to start military first?

military is not too bad. :crazyeye:
5 war (1e, 3r, 1c)
1 r.archer
2 workers, 1 slave (with nasty looking spades)

btw ottos will sign peace for 60g, what do we think? (we have 307g)

Does Ottoman or anyone else knows Writing? If not, then there is no fear for it to buy anyone against us, so we can delay the peace for some extra war happiness. If yes, I would make peace. I would also make peace if it has horses and HBR to avoid some surprise attack.

preturn
sci80%, lux10%, COL 5t, 0gpt, 307g
hmm, decide against attacking with archer, the odds are slightly against us
MM moscow, halving growth but shaving a turn off pyramids

IBT
otto r.archer appears se of warrior and archer
otto spear and warrior move nw (towards our furs)

975BC (1)
e.war vs r.archer, wins 1/5 (ouch, i didn't want to use the archer as I want him in pete)
r.war w out of pete to cover furs
r.archer to pete
hmm, i peace with ottos at the cost of 60g (didn't want to lose e.war and am worried about the rng @ pete)
sci80%, lux20%, COL 4t, -2gpt, 247g (we lost our negative WW I think as moscow has over balanced to unhappy)

IBT
Ottomans are building the Temple of Artemis
Ottomans are building the Oracle

950BC (2)
e.war heads for pete
r.war on furs returns to pete
sci70%, lux20%, COL stays 3t, +1gpt, 245g

925BC (3)
e.war arrives in pete

900BC (4)
e.war fots in pete to heal
worker team completes grassland @ moscow, they head for horse @ pete

875BC (5)
we discover COL
sci80%, lux20%, Philo 10t, -2gpt, 248g
worker team starts mine on horse

850BC (6)
sci80%, lux20%, Philo now 8t, -2gpt, 246g (pete grew)
indians have construction

825BC (7)
zzz

800BC (8)
worker team completes horse, heads for grassland on river @ moscow (next to grow)
MM moscow, restore growth to 2fpt, pyra stay 1t

775BC (9)
Chinese are building The Statue of Zeus!
Chinese are building the Temple of Artemis
Indians are building the Oracle
We complete the Pyramids in Moscow->Oracle (placeholder only, next player may swap as desired)
pete settler->spear (debating barracks but we need to pickup our military)

IBT
aargh, barb horse appears on border near moscow, adjacent to our workers!

750BC (10)
move settler stack to mt
I cancel the workers mine but leave their movement to the next player.
(best move I can see is move them all w and bring the 2 r.war's from pete out to protect them. moscow will need lux if you take it's war's)

@Microbe, feel free to swap any builds you like. (all 2 of them) :)



>>> SAVE <<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mc3-750BC.SAV)

sorry I only just saw your reply to my peace q.

Also, where do we want our next city, I was thinking the grassland s of the game. Or if we want a tighter placement the forrest w of the game is also on a river.
edit: hmm, only just notice north of the game is OCP. (i think)
(note: that's not an otto settler pair)

Good job! Making peace was necessary. I would have done so as soon as I saw their units. :)

Regarding settling I'd still go for the flood plains as dotmapped earlier.

I'd forgotten there was a dotmap earlier. Looks good.

I also think the Flood Plains site looks good.

The FP site is nice and will get us a productive town. I wonder if there is a way to grab the ivory or iron though. I wish we knew what was on that island...

Edit: Maybe we should work the actual numbers to find the best spot near the FP area. I actually am looking at the grass directly S of the deer as well. Screw tight city placement, we want to cover as much area as possible with our culture.

microbe - up
Kaiser_Berger - on deck
grs
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666

I'll play this tonight. I'll build a curragh first, then probably a settler. I had hoped to produce settler from the second town but it seems it grows slow. We can get the flood plain site, produce workers and merge back to capital.

preturn: Moscow is deoing 14spt with 2fpt, or it can do 15spt with 1fpt, or 16spt with 0fpt. 15spt is optimal in most of the cases!

Since it has 14 shields already, switching to curragh is a total waste. I switch to horse and make it 16spt, so we can build it next turn. We can use barbs to promote it to vet.

Retreat workers NW and move reg warrior to cover.

St. Petersburg to rax.

IBT China builds Zeus.

(1)730BC: The bad thing is the barb horse enters Moscow radius and now we are one shield short of horseman! Reg warrior kills the horse.

I switch horse to rax to get most of the shields. MM back for food this turn.

IBT Moscow rax->curragh and MM to get in one turn.

(2)710BC: workers go on to mine the hill.

Very bad news: India has Philosophy! We have only 2 turns to go. That's why I usually don't go this gambit at Emperor level.

But India doesn't seem to have got a free tech, so probably the other continent already got it. We have to find them.

I then sell Writing to Ottoman for 114g.

IBT Curragh->curragh.

(3)690BC: Found Novgorod and start worker.

India now has Map Making. So it is the free tech, but just didn't show up last turn.

(4)670BC: Philosophy -> Min on Republic. MoM in 12 turns.

(5)650BC: ZZZ

(6)630BC: We find iron on the island.

IBT Barb horse kills Chinese warrior.

(7)610BC: Ottoman has Monarchy.

Buy Indian worker for 104g.

IBT Aztecs complete Great Wall.

(8)590BC: ZZZ

IBT Barb galley promotes our curragh.

(9)570BC: reg archer kills a barb horse.

India has CoL. :(

China also gets Monarchy. I buy it with CoL+Philosophy+3gpt+339g. Monarchy to India for Map Making + 1g. Map Making back to China for 291g.

I just notice that an American city was founded on the iron! :eek:

IBT Navgorod worker->worker.

(10)550BC: Kill

India has over 1000g. It must have made a lot of money by selling techs. :mad:

Tech wise we are OK. Only India is up Construction. Not sure what America has. Send someone to meet it up.

MoM is in 6 turns. Normally I would like to build Great Lighthouse after that to delay AI continental contact, but with America already reached us probably it's not necessary anymore. If so, we can build Great Library directly.

We are doing min research on Republic. We have 6 turns on MoM and with 18 turns on Great Lighthouse, so we'll soon run out of wonders. I am thinking we actually turn it off, and research Lit when we are ready for Great Library?

Note if we research Lit, I'd delay it as much as possible (use Great Lighthouse for prebuild, research Lit till last turn and turn it off), so we can avoid AI demand it. In general, culture games prefer slow tech pace.

St. Petersburg can switch to settler. If that's the case, workers can chop forest to speed up the rax. We can discuss which spot to found the next city.

At some point (when it grows to size 2) we can capture the American city, but we need military for that.

At last the biggest question: should we revolt to Monarchy? Republic is still a long way to go. Monarchy wouldn't make a lot of difference, but the cash rushing would speed up our build a lot (+1spt in Moscow, and make more food for Novgorod). With only 3 cities I'd expect no more than 5 turns of anarchy. If we choose to do so, we should do it immediately.

Map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-550BC.jpg

microbe
Kaiser_Berger - up
grs - on deck
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666

In 2 turns St. Pete can be mm for growth again without slowing MoM.

No double anarchy please, we may even risk to lose MoM.

On our fourth city:

1. grabbing land and ivory (my preferred):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-4th_city_ivory.jpg

2. our last chance for silks (to agressive?)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-4th_city_silks.jpg

3. conservative cow grabbing (please move the warrior in St. Pete in the inturn to check ???.)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic3-4th_city_cow.jpg

I've got it, but won't play until later today.

Comments on the three dots:

I prefer a little to 3, but would move it one tile south to avoid too much overlap.

Dot 2 is out of the question. 3 is a little too far away I'm afraid.

I still would like more people to discuss whether we build Great Lighthouse or directly Great Library?

I suppose it depends on if anyone learns literature soon. If we can build the Lighthouse without anyone getting lit and starting the Library, then we might as well try for both.

At last the biggest question: should we revolt to Monarchy? Republic is still a long way to go. Monarchy wouldn't make a lot of difference, but the cash rushing would speed up our build a lot (+1spt in Moscow, and make more food for Novgorod). With only 3 cities I'd expect no more than 5 turns of anarchy. If we choose to do so, we should do it immediately.
*Delurk* Another reason to revolt is that MoM will trigger your Golden Age. *Relurk*

The only ancient techs that AI doesn't know is Currency, Republic and Lit, so it's possible that Lit will come up soon, so I don't think we have time to complete both wonders. If that's the case, I'd go for Great Library instead of Great Lighthouse. But we can start with Great Lighthouse and watch it out.

*Delurk* Another reason to revolt is that MoM will trigger your Golden Age. *Relurk*

Really? Russia is expansionist and scientific. The only expansionist wonders that I know are Copernicus and Magallan.

The Colossus has the expansionist flag, and the MoM has the scientific flag, so yes, We will enter a GA in my turns. I'm still not sure if that warrants switching to Monarchy. I'm not a huge fan of having two periods of anarchy.

Sounds like we need to enter Monarchy. Do we have enough cash to spy on those building MoM?

I like the ivory option, or the one not considered, where we land on the island and take the iron there.

I wouldn't worry too much about losing MoM (and I doubt we will) - we can build Hanging Gardens instead (which is a worse wonder, but still..). If we'll get a GA we should definitely revolt, but our happiness would be a big problem. We will lose 2fpt during anarchy to avoid riot, which we can afford.

Alright, I'll have us revolt. Hopefully we'll have a short anarchy.

Preturn- I hit Shift-G and pray. We get an acceptable 3 turns of anarchy.

IT- zzz

T1 530

I discover that India already has a settler pair south of Novgorod. My bet says that they're going for the ivory.

IT- We lose a curragh to barbarians.

T2 510

Not much.

IT- We become a Monarchy.

T3 490

Moscow workers are reassigned properly, and the Mausolleum is now 6 turns away.

India has entered the Middle Ages.

IT- India settles Indus right by Moscow, pushing our borders back a bit.
India starts the Great Lighthouse.

T4 470

Nothing much.

IT- Ottomans demand Code of Laws. I doubt we want to spend our GA fending off Ottoman units, so I cave.

T5 450

Nothing

IT- St. Petersburg-barracks-settler

Ottomans are building the MoM.

T6 430

I notice that the Indians did indeed settle the ivory.

IT- Novgorod-worker-worker
Ottoman sword appears south of Novgorod

T7 410

Nothing

IT- India demands 39g. I cave.
Ottoman sowrd moves away.

T8 390

Our warrior makes contact with the Americans. They are up Construction on us.

IT- MoM completes, and we enter a Golden Age.
Moscow hits 25spt. I have it start the Lighthouse for now, which can be vetoed or changed into the HG or ToA if needed.

Novgorod-worker-temple

T9 370

Not much to do.

IT- St. Pete-settler-temple

T10 350

Not much to do again. I move settler towards the cow location. America now has the Republic.


Afterthoughts

We're in our GA now, and at 25 spt, Moscow should be able to pick up at least one of the wonders available right now. After that I suppose we'll be waiting a while before we can build the Great Library. Another strategy we could try is see if we can research Literature in less than the 11 or so turns it'll take to build our current wonder. If we can do that, then we'll have a very nice prebuild ready to be swapped to the GL.

I'm back. :)

Got it.

I would really like us to try popping the hut on the isle north - while still in the ancient age - and settle on the hill between cow and iron. Novgorod could provide the settler and our new city the ship. Good idea?

We are currently researching republic at min, due in 36 turns at +27gpt. Would it be worth it to speed it to 15 turns at -11gpt? It will then come in about the time our GA ends and we could revolt while still being small, hoping for a short anarchy again.

Several comments:

1. Moscow is not MM'ed correctly. We should go for max shields. This means working the hill and the forest which would save 1 turn off Great Lighthouse. Please do that asap.

2. Lux can be lowered to 10 after MoM was built!

I would like everyone to pay attention to MM (especially our capital). This isn't too much to ask with this variant.

3. I actually would like to build Great Library during our GA. We can research Lit in 9 turns, and switch to it. America has Republic now. I'd like to get this tech by the Great Library asap. No revolt until the GA ends, of course. After that we should build harbor in Moscow, and build one or two galleys, ready to settle the island before going the next wonder. Then probably a library. I feel we may still get Great Lighthouse or another wonder after that.

EDIT: I see grs' comment. That's certainly another possibility. I am just a little worried about losing Great Library. I feel since we are in Monarchy, we are not in a hurry to get Republic. Might just let it pop up from GL?

It was good to have only 3-turn anarchy. With only 3 cities this isn't unexpected.

4. Our next city should be the iron island. I'd like to settle on the hill between cattle and iron.

5. I'd like to switch temple in St Peterburg to spear. We need more military, not an expanded border for a size-2 city! I see we are sending settler unexcorted, please do not do that. We should NEVER have an empty town - it just invites AI sneak attack! And you never know if there is barb camp in the fog.

I've said it too many times: please do not ignore military.

6. I would like to establish embassies with the AI. We have the money and it will improve their attitude and allow us to know the wonder progress. Especially America: it would show where their capital is and so we can send suicide galleys better. I expect the other continent is very close. That's why Great Lighthouse will not be as good as in normal continental games anymore. We may go for Hanging Gardens instead after Great Library.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs - up
Kiech - on deck
Ankka
TheNemesis666

1. At first sight I though so too, but a) it will only save 1 turn and b) it will cost us all growth which will slow us on the next wonder. So I think Lighthouse in 11 AND growth in 11 is far better than Lighthouse in 10 at zero growth.

2. is correct

3. Ok, thats a better idea than mine.

4. same spot I suggested

5. Ok, while I would mm it to more growth and spear still in 3.

6. affirmative :)

1. At first sight I though so too, but a) it will only save 1 turn and b) it will cost us all growth which will slow us on the next wonder. So I think Lighthouse in 11 AND growth in 11 is far better than Lighthouse in 10 at zero growth.

OK, I think that's fine, as long as this one-turn isn't important. But I would like to merge workers into it to make it up to size-12 asap.

EDIT: I also see our workers are trying to improve a grassland in our capital. I don't think we'll have a chance to work that tile before going beyond size-12, so we should only road it and send it to road the forests instead. I wouldn't mind if we just merge the two native workers either.

EDIT2: My previous comment didn't notice we were chopping forests at Novgorod (good move!)

Sorry for the delay. Playing now.

preturn: Moscow to max shields at zero growth; St. Pete to spear and to growth in 2 will still get spear in 3, lux to 10%, reasearch to 90% - literature in 6; escort to settler
ibt: barbarian uprising near St. Petersburg :(
330BC: embassies
China (Beijing): monarchy, size 6, SoZ, 2 ivory, 3 ACs, 2 spears, 0.10.0, the oracle in 5, 13spt, 13fpt, 12gpt
India (Delhi): anarchy, size 4, furs, 2 incense, silks, 2 spears, 3.7.0, the oracle in 9999 (a bit more than half of it is built), 8 spt, 9 fpt, 13 gpt
Ottomans (Istanbul): monarchy, size 7, iron, horses, incense, silks, 3 spears, 2.8.0, ToA in 15, 13spt, 18fpt, 17gpt
America (Washington): monarchy, size 7, 2 wines, 2 dyes, gems, 2 spears, 0.10.0, ToA in 10, 17fpt, 13spt, 22gpt
We will have to get the Lighthouse before America gets ToA, no one has literature so the cascade might end there!
IBT: Americans start the Great Lighthouse; China starts the ToA
310BC: Though I understand the reasoning for settling 1 south, I dont have the guts to move further. Rostov is settled just out of reach of the barb camp - spear. Workers merged, Moscow size 11 - Lighthouse in 7.
IBT: our curragh gets sunken by barbs; St. Pete spear - spear; Rostov switched to galley
290BC: --
IBT: --
270BC: we could get construction from the Ottomans for map making + 15gpt - no deal
IBT: barbs leave their camp straight east
250BC: St. Pete spear - spear; America and India have literature, lux to 30% for one turn, till Novgorod gets its temple
IBT: literature in; Novgorod temple-settler; China completes the Oracle - many builds switch, but non completes
230BC: lux back to 10%, researched turned off
IBT: St. Petersburg spear - horse
210BC: lux to 30% for one turn
IBT: Ottos declare on India
190BC: I see no way for us to get the Lighthouse and the Library so I switch before the Lighthouse completes next round
IBT: India removes Rostovs barbcamp for us
170BC: Moscow is done - it has a 12th tile for working after we join another worker (from Novgorod) and will be a +0 food then
IBT: I fear the indians landed on "our" isle (at least I saw a galley sailing there); St. Pete horse - horse; Novgorod settler-worker; Rostov galley-galley; Americans complete ToA
150BC: Novgorod is at 5fpt and 10spt now; settler is escorted by the horse; Library is due in 3 - hope that it will be soon enough.

Good to know more AI wars. If we can't get the iron island, we could prepare a war to capture the American city.

We need to meet more people. I'll look at the save tonight to post more comments.

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs
Kiech - up
Ankka - on deck
TheNemesis666

My biggest concern is our library build. The Indians will have to switch a large prebuild for the ToA next turn and this may result in us losing the Great Library and maybe all other AA wonders too. Alas, I did not see a chance to get a single shield more in my turns - even food shortage was no option.

I am really eager to press space...no...I'll wait patiently for Kiech to report.

Does India have Literature?? Oh it does. Damn it. But it's not building it in its capital, so I guess it should be OK.

I checked the save.

During grs' turns:

India (Delhi): anarchy, size 4, furs, 2 incense, silks, 2 spears, 3.7.0, the oracle in 9999 (a bit more than half of it is built), 8 spt, 9 fpt, 13 gpt

And now Delhi is on ToA. I guess it was switched when Oracle was built. Then absolutely no worry here. Oracle is cost 300, that means about 10 turns ago it was at most 200 shields. With even 10spt it would only be 300 shields now (I guess India was Monarchy before so revolting wouldn't make more shields). So we should be able to get GL. The only worry is some OTHER AI on the other continent might grab it..well not much we can do. If we lose, I'd suggest switching to Hanging Gardens.

We'll get Republic from GL and I suggest we build a galley first then revolt immediately. We then should build library, market and then start on Hanging Gardens (probably will have to switch to another wonder).

In the mean time:
1. settle the island
2. build some horses to take the American iron if the first mission fails?
3. send a galley to east to meet the other continent through American territory

I'm glad to see we have more military, but we still need more.

Got it. Taking a look now.

Spying on my prey:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/micpic01.jpg

Yea!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/micpic02.jpg

If we build here, S of the goodie hut is idea.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/micpic03.jpg

Our Empire:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/micpic04.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-50AD.SAV)

Preflight: Its unfortunate that Rostov is in a area that shares 6 squares. Do we HAVE to keep the town, or can we abandon it in favor of another spot? I am going to pretend it is a military town for now, and not build any improvements. Moscow can be MM to produce more food at that cost of 1g 1s...but we still get the library in 3. Buffalo is looking like a very nice city, if we dare take it. And I might dare to do so. Gold hill, Iron hill, a river, Flood plains, the only desert has an oasis on it...and it can build a harbor! Only one defender there, and they are building a settler due NEVER unless he switches to a worker or harbor. OK, battle plans, take Buffalo! I send a warrior and a archer from Novogrod towards Buffalo, and increase the lux tax. The horse will follow.

IBT: Chineese start the gardens and the library...chineese finish the gardens. Indians start the library, along with the Ottomans - Ottomans FINISH the library!!! Americans start on the lighthouse.

(1)130: I switch to the lighthouse, due next turn. Novgorod starts on a library. The new worker begins his road to Buffalo. I give up on the race for republic, as we need to do our own research now. 375 to Gandi for Currency. Currency, 40g and 5gpt to Otto for Construction. We get Feudalism as our freebe. Otto has Engineering but not republic, which he will get for free next turn. No other techs availible. I consider not trading at all, but I fear the library in Ottoman hands, so I am going to take it now. China really wants feudalism, and is willing to pay 14gpt, republic, and 6g. Gandhi buys Engineering and Feudalism for 25gpt and 480g, hopefully he doesn't start a 2 front war. I could build the Art of War in 8, but we need cities, and the lighthouse is pretty much a sure thing. I change research to 90% focused on Monotheism, hopefully we can end the library madness soon.

IBT: The lighthouse is done, start on a harbor for trade, then on to Art of war for a prebuild. Everyone starts on the art of war. New Delhi is founded on the island, but won't encompass the cow or iron...heh.

(2)110: I consider a partial rush on the harbor, but decide to hold on to the cash for trading later. Luxuries have to go up a point. Lux to 30%

(3)90: I declare America and send in the troops to take the gold mountain. I put a horse and a settler into the boat.

(4)70: America snuck in a second spear somehow. Our horse won, our archer redlined the second spear but died, and the 1337 warrior took the city. I start on a galley. Rostov's road has been completed. No ability to trade yet, but that could be due to our map. Novogrod is getting expensive to upkeep. I change one of them to a entertainer, and move lux to 10%. I order a Spear to be made in Moscow. The new galley is set to auto explore.

IBT: China extorts us for 45g, I cave.

(5)50: Lots of stuff completes. Start a library for moscow, spears for pete and rostov, and a barracks in novogrod.

(6)30: I find some land that looks untouched, and a hut, too bad I don't have any landers on this boat. Lots of Indians in our lands, but I think they are going to fight the ottomans.

(7)10BC: A spear arrives in Novgorod, and I can change the entertainer to a scientist for now. And I find a pretty little island that would be a great place to settle. Not too far away, has Iron and fish. Kinda close to the ottomans, but something to think about.

(8)10AD: Heh, Pete riots. I take a spear just built from rostov and move it in to end the pain. My road to Novgorod completes. I get mad, and change buffalo from a galley to a harbor, and rush it for 192g. And our golden age ends.

IBT: China and India sign vs Otto.

(9)30: The people try to cheer me up by allowing me to put up some Thundercats worship poles near the palace. Wow there sure are a LOT of Indians near Buffalo. Good thing they are fighting Otto. I switch it to a spear and rush it. The new harbor in Buffalo doesn't connect to our other cities, again, no doubt due to our lack of a map. It looks doubtful that I will be able to complete my road to buffalo and the iron before the line of Indian archers pass. Rostov gets a sci man.

(10)50: Lincon will finally talk to us. We offer peace, and he takes it!

Debreifing: There are no new techs for us to trade, and our ports are ineffective right now. Shoot straight for Education, we have to nip the Library ASAP. I didn't revolt, but if we still want to, now would be the ideal time. HOWEVER, our cities are using the troops as MP to keep our lux tax down, so maybe we should wait for Demo instead, or at least until we can trade for luxuries. Consider rushing the boat in Buffalo to find trade routes. And I really think that we should relocate Rostov, but I wonder if that is within our rules. I don't expect to get the Art of War, and you may want to do some intelligence to determine if we have enough turns to keep up the prebuild until another wonder pops along.

Good work. Too bad that we lost Great Library, just for the culture, but we already built 4 ancient wonders that I think we are doing great. Good that we captured the iron city. :thumbsup:

Next wonder should be Sistine Chapel, but that's still a while away. Let's build library, market in our capital first (rush if possible), then maybe colosseum/cathedral, then time a prebuild for Sistine while we are doing research for Monotheism -> Theology. And keep sailing to meet the other continent!

It's a while before we can get the next city, so please use the opportunity to build up our military and infra (libraries for culture expansion).

We have some decent cities!

Oh, should we revolt? I feel it's the best time to do it as we are not building any wonders urgently. Things will heat up soon (Sistine, JS Bach's, Copernicus!)

microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs
Kiech
Ankka - up
TheNemesis666 - on deck

(6)30: I find some land that looks untouched, and a hut, too bad I don't have any landers on this boat. Lots of Indians in our lands, but I think they are going to fight the ottomans

We are already in Middle Ages. Hut wouldn't give us anything.

And I really think that we should relocate Rostov, but I wonder if that is within our rules.

It's certainly within our rules. I don't know what others think. I feel it was a very bad move to found it in a haste. Now it's pop 5. We can certainly build a settler and 2 workers, abandon it and refound/merge back.

We could still get cash from the hut, IIRC...or maybe thats just for the expansionits.

I don't like the idea of revolting yet, it would kill our science, as too much would have to be put into lux tax.

When Rostov is moved(S 1 Tile), rush library/temple ASAP, to counter the Otto's city culture. We DO have a settler riding in the northern boat, really just doing nothing right now. Turn Rostov into a worker factory, and move the settler to the desired spot, then relocate the city. Once those slaves finish the mine, completing the road won't be a big issue. Instead of rushing the boat in Buffalo, rush workers in Rostov instead.

Moscow hasn't been working on the wonder for long, so switching to a marketplace won't hurt.

Will revolt really require more lux slider? I'm actually not sure of this. Remember that Republic gives a lot more commerce, so the same lux percentage might bring in more happy faces? Anyone knows how this is calculated?

The problem of not revolting is that we'll have to wait until democracy. Might not be a bad idea.

We can do an analysis, I suspose. But Republic was nerfed a bit in C3C, as our troops each cost 3, and we need a relatively large military to keep from getting smooshed.

I feel it was a very bad move to found it in a haste.
I certainly explained that not building it there meant not building it anywhere near there. It will be long before the position hinders us, but you could move it now.

@kiech: Republic was pushed in c3c as we get free military now. I would certainly revolt soon. Troops above the limit cost 2 btw.

On settling (after our next wonder): would you still consider the cow/iron isle good? I would.

I just asked the question about lux slider here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95860). Worth a read. I would say Republic would give no worse happiness situation. There are two options:
1. Revolt to Republic asap and stay there.
2. Wait until Democracy.

What do people think?

I prefer revolt now. We may starve a bit during anarchy but not much. We can always merge back worker to capital later.

I would go for Republic. I guess I just don't see the advantage of being a democracy. We don't need the faster workers with our limited land.

Ok... I'll try to play today, so should I revolt?

I think we should revolt soon.

Plan:

- relocate Rostov ASAP
- build market and perhaps rush it in Moscow
- Revolt to Republic ASAP

I'll be playing in less than half an hour.

50AD [Preturn]: Switch Moscow to market, due in 2. No rush needed. :)

MM Moscow for food, market still in 2.
MM Novgorod for food.
Switch Rostov to worker to relocate it.

IBT: Some battles..

Rostov worker > settler.

70AD [1]: Some MMing.

IBT: More battles..

Moscow market > Sun Tzu's as prebuild.
Petersburg spear > library.
Novgorod spear > market. We need the cash.

90AD [2]: Duh, the Indian archers block our access to Buffalo... the road will coma a little later...

Rush settler in Rostov for 104 gold.
Finally remember to revolt.

[dance] Only 2 turns of anarchy. :D

No other chance than to hire some clowns. And where possible, convert them to taxmen.

IBT: India captures Konya. The troops continue South.

Rostov settler > settler.

110AD [3]: :sleep:

IBT: We become a Republic! :D

130AD [4]: Luxtax to 30% to prevent Petersburg and Novgorod from rioting... -3gpt, not bad, will get better after we get a temple in Petersburg and a market in Novgorod.

Rush galley in Buffalo.

IBT: WLTKD party in Moscow..

Buffalo galley > library to get some culture.

150AD [5]: Rush worker in Rostov, Settler would be too expensive compared to our income... or actually, decifit.

IBT: Rostov worker > worker.

170AD [6]: Able to lower sci to 50%, Mono still in 2.

Noone has got anything to trade...

190AD [7]: Science slider to 0%, set a lone scientist in Rostov, Mono still in 1. :yeah:

IBT: We learn Monotheism > strt Theology @50% science, @+4gpt.

Indians complete Sun Tzu's. There went our prebuild.

210AD [8]: Switch Moscow to cathedral, due in 6.

Rush settler in Rostov. The move shall happen next turn.

IBT: Rostov builds settler and has no food income, abandon it.

230AD [9]: Settle Yaroslavl' > library.

Uh... I thought the abandoned square would have roads. Apparently not..

Add the worker Rostov built into Yaroslavl'.
The settler will be added next turn.

Now the Indians block the Iron hill. Well, at least Buffalo is now connected...

IBT: St Petersburg temple > library in 4.

250AD [10]: Add the settler into Yaroslavl'.

Yaroslavl actually needs a temple and some roads around it ASAP to get over the happiness problem

Sorry, I forgot a screenie. :undecide:


Here's the save though. :)

A few comments:

1. We can sell Monotheism to China for ivory+7g+13gpt. I think we should make the deal. We can also buy 2 lux from India with 12gpt. We should do all these asap (EDIT: see 4).

2. It will be a while before we can work on Sistine Chapel. After Cathedral we build Colosseum, then probably some military. Please MM capital to use high-commerce tiles after that (coastal gives 4gpt instead of 3)!

3. We still haven't connected iron. Whenever Indian units leave the tile we should send a warrior to occupy it. We need better defense. By the way I want every city to have at least 4 defenders, and some spare ones on our resources, and some horses for offense.

4. India doesn't have horses. We should connect the second source and sell to it immediately (to avoid demand). India has some money that we can use. Heck, we can even sell our only source to it now, and get the two lux plus some money, then connect the horse. I perfer this because then we can continue to do the horses-for-lux deal in the future.

5. Very good that our galley eventually reached the other continent. Make more contact!

It looks good, but we need to go full speed on the next wonder. I want at least one of Sistine, JS Bach's and Copernicus, and preferrably two.

I would also suggest we send a couple of spare warriors to the island to fortify around the iron to reserve a space for ourselves.

microbe - on deck
Kaiser_Berger
grs
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666 - up

I was trying to get Moscow to size 12, so I set it to max growth... it can after that produce over 20 spt, perhaps even 25.

I didn't think of occupying the iron hill when I had the chance to, sorry about that...

I mmed Moscow for the max spt with growth, and used the coast tiles too.

MM is very important especially on Moscow, so I just clarify what I think the general rules should be:

1. When we are building a wonder or culture building, go for max shields.
2. When we are not building a wonder or anything urgent, go for high commerce.

Like after Cathedral and Colosseum, and before Theology comes, we will not be in any hurry to build anything, so we should go for high commerce.

There could be exceptions, so it's more like a reminder than a rule, so people won't forget.

got it. I'm at work and will play when I get home. (and post in about 9 hrs from now)
Read your posts since last set briefly microbe, will read again tonight before I play.

preturn
trade mono to china for ivory+7g+13gpt
trade horses to india for silk+incense+70g
microbe suggested getting sistines asap so:
adjust sci80%, lux10%, +8gpt, 144g, theology 11t

260AD (1)
ouch, some of our cash deals expired:
sci60%, lux10%, +4gpt, 152g, theology 13t

IBT
ottos want an alliance against india, I decline
otto and india sign peace treaty
americans are building leo's

270AD (2)
MM moscow after growth for shields, get 1 extra but not change on cathederal completion date
india, otto, america all have invention

IBT
india are building leo's
the iron is clear!

280AD (3)
warrior rushes to iron hill

290AD (4)
moscow cathederal->colosseum
st. peter library->aqueduct
galley coming around eastern side of america spots dark purple border

300AD (5)
Novgorod market->cathederal
make contact with the iroquois, they are down lit, poly, currency, const

310AD (6)
we meet Aztec Galley, they are down Mono, engineering, we are able to trade with them but they have nothing available at the moment

IBT
china settler pair arrives on our southern border

320AD (7)
galley moves

IBT
china and otto sign peace
otto start leo's
americans are building knights templar

330AD (8)
yay, I can now trade with the iroquois
trade lit for gems+10g (didn't know what to give really, so chose cheapest sci, agonized for ages as it would give the lib's)
sci60%, lux0%, +20gpt, 202g, Theology 5t (could shave a turn off theo at the cost of 16gpt, but decided not too)
galley travelling round islands e of china spots blue border over ocean

IBT
German (blue) galley arrives on our eastern coast

340AD (9)
Yaroslavl' library->aqueduct (economy is fine so decide to get started on the aque before market)
contact bismark, he's down mono, nothing available to trade at the moment

IBT
Chinese are building leo's
India are building knights templar
Otto are building knights templar

350AD (10)
Moscow colosseum->courthouse (minor prebuild for sistines)
Buffalo library->market


Next player, make sure you swap moscow to sistines before the court finishes

Moscow can get one more shield by working the mined grassland instead of the coast. That will give us the Chapel one turn faster. We should chop the not worked forest near Moscow to look if we can get a bg there, which could give us one more shield and save another turn.

It seems improbable that we will get another city peacefully. The Sistine Chapel will take about 28-30 turns to complete and India will fill the small island north by this time. We could settle on the horse, sugar, 2 fish island to the west, but it will be very corrupt. So the question remains - what to do with the settler? We may join it to Buffalo.

I haven't looked at the save. Too late and I have been debugging the whole night. :)

If we have a settler I'll merge it immediately.

Yes we cannot get a city peacefully now as expansion is over. We may capture one, or just live with 5CC.

We have the settler for at least 20 turns. I built it on one of my last turns before Boston was catured. It has been shipped around since then.

originally the extra shield was going to complete the courthouse too early(i think), I forgot to check in my last turn.

edit: the settler is in the galley of the west of the iron island

Preturn: upgrade all spearmen to pikes. I feel safer now. We should have done this as soon as iron was connected. Novgorod is building cathedral while it's happy..why? I'll let it finish then switch to military. Please do not ignore military!

MM St Petersburg to get more commerce while still get Aqueduct in 3 turns.

Our horse/settler is on the galley next to the island. There is already an Indian settler (no escort!). I move the horse onto the hut hoping to pop some barbs, but we get map instead. Move settler onto the island to block the Indian settler.

Our capital is 32cpt. That's culture win in 578 turns.

IBT Indian settler moves to the iron.

(1)360AD: shuffle some units.

IBT palace expansion.

(2)370AD: nothing.

IBT Theology->Education.

(3)380AD: Sistine Chapel due in 27 turns. Ottoman is likely researching Theology as I am not even able to trade for Chivalry. So I sell it around:

America has a LOT of gpt, so I sell Theology for 92gpt+dyes. It turns polite.
Theology+4g to China for Invention.
Theology to India for Chivalry+30g.
Theology to Ottoman for 40g+1gpt since it will get it through Great Library anyway.

We may lose Sistine, but it's important to get knight. Only when we have strong military can we keep tech to ourselves and refuse demand! For now better just sell it, and we get some good money.

We'll keep researching and use JS Bach as a fallback if we lose Sistine.

Currently: Beijing, Istanbul, Calcutta and Washington are building Leo. Most of these cities are poor and AI is just 9-turn into it (TheNamesis666 mentioned India/America start Leo's), so we have chance.

With this in mind, I start 40% science on Education to get it in 20 turns. We are making +141gpt.

(4)390AD: India starts Sistine in Bangalore (size 6), Ottoman starts in Izmit (size 7 with lots of marshes and jungle).

I keep the horse on the island - India settled it but we could still settle on iron. But for now I send the settler home.

(5)400AD: America starts Sistine in Boston.

America has Gunpowder.

(6)410AD: Novgorod cathedral->pike. It's a two-turn pike factory.

(7)420AD: I merge the settler into St Petersburg and rush the market there.

I just thought that I could have switched Novgorod from Cathedral to KT a couple of turns ago, and we may get it. However, it might be a good thing not to, as if we build it first, Delhi might switch to Sistine.

IBT Germany declares on America.

(8)430AD: A bunch of Indian archer/spear enter our territory. I hope they are just returning home.

St. Petersburg is two-turn pike factory as well.

(9)440AD: Our horses online, I upgrade a horse to knight.

I rush aqueduct in Yaroslavl.

IBT Indian units indeed are just going home.

(10)450AD: India has Gunpowder too.

I renew horses for silks/incense deal with India plus 10g. I thought about buying Gunpowder so we could have best defensive units, but pikes are doing OK and we can buy Gunpowder later with Education, so I'd rather save the gold.

Rush market in Buffalo.
I also get spices from Iro by Polytheism.

I then switch Novgorod to worker as we really need more. It is a twn-turn worker factory.

We need to produce more workers and improve the tiles.

Let Novgorod run as 2-turn worker factory for a while. Currently it's 10fpt/11spt, and you can switch it between worker/wealth. Do not let the pop drop.

St. Petersburg should keep producing military. We have a lot of gold for unit support. We can also disband those regular units or warriors when we have a decent military. I'd like to see 3~4 pikes in every city and 10 knights standby, and a few more pikes to protect our workers and resources. Building a few trebs wouldn't hurt too.

Just as I am about to hand it over, I decide to do investigation on AI cities:

Instanbul: 12spt to complete Leo's in 31 turns. It has 3 lux and 3 clowns.
Calcutta: 15spt to complete Leo's in 17 turns. It has 3 lux and no clowns. It could grow (with 4fpt) but won't be happy. But it might get some extra lux from others.
Washington: 18spt and complete Leo's in 10 turns! 4 lux. Hmm, this is very bad. We will lose Sistine to the cascade (by Calcutta). So we have to get Music Theory in 17 turns. To be safe let's say 14 turns.

Note: India might get a GA with its UU, so be aware if India gets into war with anyone. In that case, we need to get to Music Theory asap!

Spent about 500g but well worth it.

I raise sci to 50% to get Education in 9 turns. Then we should research Music Theory in 5 turns.

After we get Education we should trade with India - it's the only AI that I don't want to fight. So keep it happy! If we have a decent military like I mentioned above, we can choose to deny Education from other AI, so we delay Copernicus to them. If they want to declare just buy India against them. But we can trade if AI pays good price (America seems to be rich).

We have a horse on the island. We can bring it back if India settles the 3rd city.

By the way, I don't want America to take over Germany, so maybe we should sell Chivalry to Germany.

Roster:
microbe
Kaiser_Berger - up
grs - on deck
Kiech
Ankka
TheNemesis666

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-450AD.jpg

Looks like we're progressing well :goodjob:

I've got it, and will play a little later.

I move the horse onto the hut hoping to pop some barbs
Not with an EXP Civ...

Preturn- We're looking good, all ready to go.

IT- India founds third city on the island. I send the horse in his way home.

Novgorod-worker-wealth
Buffalo-market-courthouse

T1 460

Not much. Nothing new for trades.

IT- India declares war on the Americans.
The Americans start Sistine's

T2 470

I'm guessing the Indians pulled a sneak attack against the one city that the Americans have on our continent. They may very well be in a GA very soon. I increase our Education research as a precaution. We now have Education due in 4 turns at 90% at +58 gpt

IT- St. Petes-knight-knight
Novgorod-worker-wealth

T3 480

Not much. I investigate Bangalore, the city building Sistine's. According to the tiles, they are not in a golden age, and the American city has been captured, although it's very possible that the Americans will land troops that the Indians could slaughter with War Elepahants. I'll keep the research up just to be safe.

IT- zzz

T4 490

Nothing interesting.

IT- Nov-worker-wealth

T5 500

I can drop our Education research by 10% and still get it in one turn. We got up to 73gpt.

IT- We learn Education. Set research to Music Theory. It'll be here in 7 turns at 90% science.

The Indians complete the Knight's Templar in Delhi.

T6 510

I trade Education to India as was discussed. We get Gunpowder, 20g, and 62pgt for it.
Since the Ottomans will get it from the G. Lib anyway, I trade them Education as well for 20g and 10gpt.
We have saltpeter on a hill south of Novgorod :D

We are even in tech with everyone except America, who is up Chemistry.

IT- Novgorod-worker-wealth
The Chinese are building Sistine's.

T7 520

Not much new.

IT- St. Pete-knight-knight

We lose our supply of gems.

T8 530

I renew our gems deal with the Iroquois for Monarchy.

IT- zzz

T9 540

Nothing new.

IT- Novgorod-worker-university
Buffalo-courthouse-university

T10 550

Uneventful.


Afterthoughts

We're 3 turns away from Music Theory. Once we get that, I suggest we go max science towards Astronomy. After that, I think we'll probably want to try to get Shakespeare's at least.

Yes, Shake's is the must have- wonder for a 20k win. 8cpt is awesome, and if gotten early enough, doubles to 16cpt! :wow:

Got it and will play later today.

Will go for Music - Astronomy - Banking (if it gets that far), keep Indian happy (besides being our bigger neighbour, they control virtually all of our trade routes).

Will build Bach's (hopefully) a harbor for Yaroslavl and some more military.

Workers will connect the salpeter and work/rework some tiles - especially near Novgorod since it is 12 soon and hospitals are far away.

We'll build JS Bach's in 10 turns. Then build/rush a university. We can build Shakespear in 20 turns. So we need to research Astronomy, Banking, PP, Democracy and FA in about 32-34 turns. That's 6-7 turn research in average. Should be doable. A little too fast tech pace in my favor though.

I thought about getting Copernicus first, but India has a 18spt city which can get it in 18 turns. We may have to switch to another wonder like Magallen (that's only 2 techs away).

I think I am ok with getting Shakespear, merging workers to get it up to max size, and then we'll be sure to get any wonders we want, like ToG.

There is one problem that India might build Copernicus before we get to it and end the cascade.

So we must get some other wonder tech first (Economics or Navigation).

Since we are still 10 turns away for JS Bach's, and MT is in 3 turns, we can do this: ignore Astronomy and go for Economics.

turn 3: MT, start on Banking in 4-5 turns
turn 7 or 8: Banking -> Economics
turn 10: JS Bach -> University, rush it
turn 12: Economics -> PP, and university -> Smith
turn 18: PP-> Democracy
turn 26: Democracy->FA
turn 31: FA, switch Smith to Shakespear and we'll build it in turn 32.

We can speed it up a bit if we are worried AI could cascade to Smith too, but I doubt it. Comments?

Sounds like a good plan Microbe. I say we follow your plan to the letter.

Sounds good, just that Copernikus would be a great addition to Moscow and help our research enourmously.

I also doubt the research times you calculate. Banking is 1680 beakers and we just make 174/turn at 90%. So we will take much longer to research it. Same goes for Astronomy of course, but it gives us the possibility to build a wonder, while banking is only a prerequisite. Without Copernikus research we will fall back in research soon.

We should also not neglect the AI being very eager to research the lower path toward military tradition. And (last comment ;)) the two wonders on the market (Leo and Sistine) will be finished soon and all AI prebuilds will end. To sum it up, I would still go for Astrnomy first - or we will not have a chance to build any wonder

PreTurn: mm St. Peterburg to grow again - knight will be there in 3 anyways; Nowgorod switched to worker and growth in 1
IBT: Mao asks us to leave his waters; Novgorod worker-worker
560AD: chemistry was traded around; mm St. Pete for more growth - knight still in 2
IBT: Novgorod worker - wealth; America completes Leo
570AD: Novgorod wealth - worker; mm Yaroslavl for more growth - market still in 1 ; research to 70% music in 1
IBT: music learned; St. Pete knight - uni; Novgorod worker - wealth; Yaroslavl market - harbor; India builds Sistine in Calcutta; we lose our dyes
580AD: retrade dyes for 13gpt (I would rather trade lux for other per turn goods than tech, because we risk losing the lux in the interturn if we trade for tech); Moscow to Bach's in 7

--- PAUSE HERE ---

Astronomy or Banking are fastest in 9 at 90% and +12gpt
There is no wonder left but Bach's and no one has Music - all AI prebuilds ended
Moscow will build Bach's in 7.

I would do Astronomy first: Bach's in 7, build uni 1 round, then rush it, start Copernikus'
Banking would mean we will have no wonder to build for about 11 turns (economics in as expensive as banking and astronomy).

I would like to finish tonight, but will wait for some feedback.

Lots of options here. I have come up with the craziest one:
We COULD simply delay Bachs in favor of Copernicus', by working the coast instead of the mines temporarily. Then start on Bach's all over again. Bach's would actually become our pre-build for the Theater unless we are lucky enough to grab it as well. Maybe. This one seems rather off-beat...but it will ensure that we get the Observatory. Rushing a University sounds like a good idea if it is possible.

Now for the research end. The other civs have Chemistry already, so they SHOULD be studying Astronomy. So instead, we will study Banking, skipping Economics, and go straight for Free Artistry. We will trade for Astronomy, attempting to keep our hold on Music theory if possible. If not, then it will simply be a race to Free Artistry before India builds Bachs.

With my scenario, we will score Copernicus, but probably not Bach's, unless we can somehow keep the monopoly on Music Theory. So the real question here is: What is more important, more science or more happiness? Bach's culture is nice too, but I think the science outweighs that.

Regardless if we use my plan or not, the next question is about where to settle. I see the Ottomans have settled the nice spot I picked out earlier (I took a picture of it during my last set of turns,) but they are VERY weak right now. We should build a few more galley's, a settler, and raze the city(it's size 1.) Getting China into the fight will ensure our success. In fact, after taking the city, we might consider razing the other city they have on the island just north of my spot, and throw up a few troops to block someone from settling there until we are ready.

I really hope that one of India's cities will flip to us, as having cities closer to us is ideal, but we can't bank on that.

Well I overestimated our research capability. :) This also means we'll not go to Shakespear fast enough.

How about this:

Build Bach's in 7 turns, then rush university, then use courthouse as 3-turn prebuild, and time Astronomy to finish during this timeframe. This way we'll probably get Copernicus unless India gets a GA.

We can always choose to investigate India to make sure. If we cannot build Copernicus, we can research Navigation to switch to Magallan's, or Banking + Economics to switch to Smith's.

Kiech, I do want JS Bach's more than Copernicus as it has more culture.

If we want to build Bachs, then we should still reasearch Banking. We will be able to trade MT + cash for Astronomy. Hopefully they get it within 7 turns, so we get full worth of the tech.

@Kiech: I think getting Copernikus' first is no option simply because it is 200 shields cheaper. We would have to waste 2 turns of production = 40 shields plus another 200.

If we want to build Bachs, then we should still reasearch Banking. We will be able to trade MT + cash for Astronomy. Hopefully they get it within 7 turns, so we get full worth of the tech.

That's of course an option. AI usually love Astronomy/Navigation. And Banking can get us a 6-turn prebuild using bank too. The only risk is what if AI doesn't research Astronomy? We can then research Economics then directly go to Shakespear.

I am actually suprised that India doesn't already have it, as in my games the AI tend to shoot straight for Astronomy after getting Inventon...they already have chemistry, no doubt Astronomy isn't far away. Anyways, with India's GA imminent, we probably won't get Copernicus, and we need to move quickly to Shakey's. I don't think we will really need economics before democracy, as we should be able to research FA before they can finish the observatory, which would be our pre-build.

But on to the more tangible tactic. Where do we want the next city? Does anyone agree with my choice?

as we should be able to research FA before they can finish the observatory, which would be our pre-build.

Not necessarily. Calcutta was 15spt (without GA) and could build Copernicus in 22 turns. Not sure about Delhi but I wouldn't be surprised if it's 18spt.

Can we research PP, Democracy, FA within 22 turns? Probably (PP and FA should be pretty cheap, but Democracy might need more than 10 turns).

And if AI researches Navigation we can always fall back if we lose Copernicus.

But the problem is what if India gets GA?

Hmm. We can play by ear, then. Research Banking as fast as possible, then spy on whatever city India is building Copernicus in. If we can't make it - Economics, if we can - straight to FA.

And if the RNG gods are nice to us, maybe we will get a SGL along the way.

Also: IF India gets astronomy before we finish Bachs, AND we don't need to trade MT away to get it, should we take copernicus, then re-build Bachs?

No, we shouldn't abandon JS Bach's. I want 6cpt instead of 4cpt.

We would still build Bachs. It would just be slightly delayed. Note this only works if we don't have to trade MT for Astronomy.

I will go Bach's and then Copernikus' - that includes starting astronomy now. Other options sound too much like guesswork for me. Continuing now.

Some cities I investigated at 450AD (by the way whoever investigated cities please always post a screenshot):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-450AD-Washington.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-450AD-Istanbul.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-450AD-Calcutta.jpg

Well, I am off to sleep. I won't play till the AM.

grs hasn't finished.

Sorry, I was just assuming that he will finish sometime before tomorrow. I can be paitent. :)

--- Continued ---

research set to astronomy in 9

IBT: Mao demands music - nope - no declaration
590AD: Novgorod switched to worker; start to upgrade pikes to muskets; disband all warrios but the elite - there is always hope, isn't it :)
IBT: Novgorod worker-uni; we now have 15 workers (14 native + 2 slaves) arranged in 5 teams of 3
600AD: disband the regular spear
IBT: --
610AD: chop
IBT: --
620AD: chop
IBT: --
630AD: chop
IBT: Buffalo uni-barracks
640AD: India has learned banking :)
IBT: Iroquis and America sign MA vs Germany; India offers chemistry for music - we let them add 7gpt; Moscow Bach's-uni; St. Peter uni-knight; Yaroslawl harbor-uni; piece of palace; spices deal ends
650AD: I revoke what I said in turn 3 and trade Feudalism to Iroquis for spices

What I intend now:

Moscow: will get 20 + 10 forest shields in the interturn - wait for them then rush uni and then start Copernikus' at max shields
St. Pete: mixture between growth and military - can build a knight every 5
Novgorod: will be size 12 with all necessary buildings in the interturn; could produce military, but maybe a court first would be good
Buffalo: will need the barracks first to produce military; already has a court; don't irrigate any more squares there
Yaroslavl: I stupidly missed growth by one food :( it should get an uni and a court too

I started moving our galleys home and left some pikes to be upgraded to save cash for rushing.

I tried to flipcalc Indian cities and got 0,32% for Konya, 0,06% for Indus and 0,00% for Ganges, so that is opted out I guess. A wild move would be to settle in the desert se,se of Konya to raise pressure on Konya and Ganges, but that seems too much guesswork and a bit exploitive anyways. A war on the Ottos for the crappy corrupted isles seems not worth it too. How about we don't build more cities now? Apart from strategic ressources (which we miss none of till now) and maybe luxuries (which we can easily trade for) we won't get anything worthwhile, if we don't attack India - which seems suicidal now. We should try later after building many more knights - india has no access to salpeter. The idea would be to capture Indus and Dacca or Konya and Ganges, when we are allowed to take 2 cities then hold position till we can peace them and stay that way till the end. It's a 20k after all, so why should we initiate a war?

And a last remark: we have no embassies with the Aztechs, Iroquis and Germans. I think atm the cash is better used for research, upgrades and maybe an inventigation once some civs started Copernikus', but no sooner.

Can we still settle the iron on that island?

No, India already founded on the interrun before bergers first (450AD).

There are two spots:
1. west to St Petersburg. It could bring in more commerce.
2. the jungle south to Buffalo. It may get us resources.

I still would like to settle a city.

Here I go. Lets see where I can take us.

A cheaply surveyed Indian town.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic650-01.jpg

My favorite target. It has iron!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic650-02.jpg

No more golden age. Oh well.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic650-03.jpg

Why is China even bothering?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic650-04.jpg

Our empire.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mic650-05.jpg

Pregame: Get distracted by the wife for a few hours. Then, I open the game. We now have a trading route open with the Aztecs, and can score some wines. India and China, interestingly, has no access to saltpeter. We don't have the full map yet, but America and Germany are its only possible traders. Hmm, 126g to spy on India's capital, and 800 for the uni. We only have 920 in the bank. We can move sci to 70% and still get Astronomy in 2. I can either pre-build the Observatory, or let the university finish. The loggers outside of Moscow say they want me to wait a turn before I rush the University...I partial-rush it with a courthouse instead, if we have a chance at the observatory, every turn counts. I have no idea where this place is that you want to settle, as every spot is taken, unless you want to overlap our own cities...which I am not too thrilled with in this game. Not to mention that it will also get Gandhi a bit peeved at us. I will consider as I play. The aztecs get monotheism and cough up 50g + wines. I am going to get a survey of one of India's towns that is a bit cheaper. Antlaya is 27g, I pick them. Looks like they are in their GA. No idea when it started, so lets assume it has just begun.

And breathe.

IBT: We lose silks. And Incense. Gandhi doesn't want our horses anymore, but will renew if we add in 70g. Done. Start courthouse prebuild in Moscow. A little magic happens, and we get WLTK days all around. Novgorod starts on a courthouse for when that magic goes away.

(1)660: Sci down to 50%. Worker movements.

IBT: Finish Astronomy, move to banking. Buffalo starts a trebushet.

(2)670: Switch Moscow to Observatory. Check in on Gandhi, he doesn't have Astronomy yet, and offers 79gpt for it. I think I will keep it that way, for now. Sci to 100%, we can afford -11 per turn.

IBT: :sleep:

(3)680: Old boy decided to go for printing press. Interesting. Ok, count down 3 turns, then I should know if he is researching Astronomy or Democracy. Oh, Observatory in 18. As an american warmonger, I fail to resist. I start to focus on Sinop, my target for a new city. 2 measly spears, no barracks or walls, and building culture. Planned attack force: 2 knights, 1 Midevil infantry, a pike, a musket, and a settler.

IBT: :sleep:

(4)690: Not a whole lot.

IBT: Growth in Pete and Buffalo. Keeping Buffalo a Trebushet machine till it grows to 12.

(5)700: Some MM on Novgorod. The 3 turn countdown is up, so I talk to Gandhi about Astronomy. His intrest has noticably decreased, guess I know what he is studying now. I trade Astonomy and Comm with the Aztecs for PP + 32gpt and 109g. I trade PP to America for 18gpt and 163g. There are a few contacts I could sell, but only for 7 and 8g. We can probably get more if we are paitent.

IBT: Novgorod finishes its Courthouse, and I can starve it for a 3 turn musket factory, or a 4 turn factory with extra income. Note: I need to start mining that mountain for more shields. Buffalo ends WLTKD.

(6)710: Our previous gpt deal with India is over, so we aren't making as much cash anymore. Sci to 70% and banking in 1. I note that Abe and China have Astronomy now as well. He didn't have any cash left when I talked to him, I assume they were able to trade with each other.

IBT: We finish Banking. China and India begin the observatory.

(7)720: I spy on India. Good news and good news. His GA is over, and he will finish the Observatory in 16 turns, vice our 14. He is size 11, but won't grow for another 8 turns. OK, spy on China...due in 32 turns. I think we can research democracy, instead of economics, safely. To be sure, I spy on america's wonder city, Washington. 13spt. Why was I worried? I start Democracy. (sorry, forgot to grab the SS of Washington). 7 turns is the fastest we can do

IBT: We lose our gems.

(8)730: I get our gems back for Chivilry. Abe has a monopoly on metalurgy.

(9)740: Novgorod starts a settler.

IBT: Yaro starts a courthouse. Pete and Boston halt military production for banks. Ottomans start the observatory.

(10)750: Nothing of note. You will notice feverish mining on Novgorods forementioned mountain. I have a Trebushet on the way to Moscow, and one to Novgorod.

Postgame: We can score the observatory, or, if you can peddle Democracy out for enough cash, we will have a pre-build ready for Shakeys. Note the settler in Novgorod. He can be whatever you want...even a bank. If you do raze the Ottoman city of Sinop, be sure to found our new city one tile NW for maximum effect. Be careful spending cash, we are getting low.

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mic3-750AD.SAV)

And Breathe.

His GA is over, and he will finish the Observatory in 16 turns, vice our 14. He is size 11.

That's very good news. I'd appreciate if you could post the screen shot. While sometimes investigation is required, I don't want to waste money on cities we've known enough about. For example, I've had Washington investigated and we know it's not a threat.

Request to everybody:

Whenever in your turnlog you find AI starts a wonder, please use bold font in your turnlog to highlight it! When, where and which wonder.

And whenever you spend money on investigation, please post a screenshot. If you forget, go back and reload the autosave, do the investigation again just to have the screenshot.

Copernicus in 14 turns, that means we should finish FA in 20 turns with our 6-turn bank prebuild. Do not do research too fast.

I posted the screenshots...they are on the bottom of page 8 of this thread. I don't like to post pictures with my text, as many of us have to scroll back and forth to read the log. I will watch myself so I don't lose the surveys again.

12 turns till the observatory, so we will have possibly 8 turns of pre-build. We could stand to plant a forest in Moscow, There is a spot roaded but not mined ready for this. It will bring us up to 22 spt.

I think we should peddle democracy quickly for gpt, then we won't have a deficit. Getting metalurgy is important, but not if it will stifle our cash flow.

Sorry I missed that. We didn't need to investigate those size-6 towns though.

Roster:
microbe
Kaiser_Berger
grs
Kiech
Ankka - up (24-hour is over)
TheNemesis666 - on deck

wow, good work guys, I was offline for the weekend and missed about 3 pages of posts, sorry.

Ankka is skipped. TheNemesis can you take it?

I posted the screenshots...they are on the bottom of page 8 of this thread. I don't like to post pictures with my text, as many of us have to scroll back and forth to read the log. I will watch myself so I don't lose the surveys again.

You just have to format the pics to 800x600 or at least 800 width or less.

I was up? sorry for that, I didn't notice.


I think I will need to lessen my SG's though, I'm getting a Mac so I can't play in other than Vanilla SG's...

I hope I can play this to the end, though.

I should have noticed I was up. :blush: :undecide: Sorry.

I've only just checked in and seen that I was up, I can't play tonight but will play when I get home from work tomorrow and have posted in about 20 hours, can you play before then ankka?

Dunno... I think I'll wait, for 2 reasons: the skip was ordered by microbe, and I'm tired.

You just have to format the pics to 800x600 or at least 800 width or less.

If people can't