This is the second spoiler for Classic 33: Greece

Qualification for this spoiler is reaching the industrial age.

For those of you who recovered successfully from the ravages of the barbarians, coped with the fast tech rate and beaten off the indians and chinese; how did you move through the middle ages?

Please don't post any maps showing industrial-age or later resources. :)

edit: My mistake - I put that the qualification a finished game was a qualification for this spoiler - sorry about that :blush:

Beaten off the Indians and the Chinese? What? My Middle Ages celebrated no such glorious advances. I had considered a Chivalry war, I really had. India was ready and willing to trade cheap horses to me, and I had iron. Saltpeter had turned up in Chinese territory, but I could take that city in the first turn of the war if I chose to.

Thing is, I'm at heart a builder. That, and this tech pace is faster than even the Deity games I've played. My Great Library bonus didn't last long, and I was feeling the pressure of acquiring more and more tech to not fall behind. That, and I sold a few early MA techs for about 100gpt in indiviidual trades, and that'll whet your appetite for more research even without the outrageously cheap universities.

But I can't call the Middle Ages a success. I kept my cities fully upgraded (excepting a Colleseum here and there), but at this tech pace that left no turns for the building of military units. Sporadic but inconsequential wars in the west didn't hamper research much, but many civs were too poor for effective brokering. My military for most of the Middle Ages consisted of a good number of hoplites, a few token Med. Infantry, and a few token knights. Luckily, demands were few and far between, as I had good relations with just about everyone. Plus India and China were involved in two furious wars spanning most of the Middle ages. In the, er, classic matchup of War Elephants and Riders, China was destined to win. But both civs were having fun with their Golden Ages, and for most the Age China only just managed to gain the advantage in the underdeveloped southern area.

Near the end of the middle ages, people were passing me in tech. China and the Arabs were passing me in culture (finally). I had an anemic military, not enough cities to even build a forbidden palace, and a wild look in my eye. I had considered holding out for an industrial age war, where I could utilize one of my favorite Civ3 rules: 'With enough artillery, anything is possible.' Thing is, at this pace I wouldn't be able to gather enough artillery, let alone the infantry to accompany it.

I had to utilize Cavalry, and it had to be decisive before Replaceable Parts, if not Nationalism. Luckly, even without Wall Street (not enough banking cities...) my finances were in good shape. I decided to do something I'd never done before, purposely disconnect a resource to bulid a crappier unit. Unfortunately, I only had 8 horsemen before I forgot what I was doing and demanded Iron to sweeten a trade for a tech where I could only get a moderate gpt.

Screw it. The Arabs zoomed into the Industrial Age, and a few years later I had Military Tradition. It hurt, but I didn't trade it. The Chinese needed to pay. They had just taken a northen border city that India needed, and India didn't have the draft yet. If they ran over India before I made my move, I was doomed.

I had only mustered 16 cavalry when I attacked, but China only had the occasional musketmen backed by pikemen defense. Then again, India's northern border (the important one) had lost a city and I could feel it crumbling. I had clogged the few roads leading south, felt prepared, but only took two cities on the first turn. No Saltpeter, but the Ottomans were providing it for me.

I took two more cities, solidifying my gains. Hoplites on mountains were still good enough to start my Golden Age, and three more Chinese cities had fallen when the Industrial Age started. Sounds good, sure, but my initial military buildup was already depleted, China was still three times my size, workers are still hiding in my cities, and the Republic had stopped celebrating the war.

The story continues next spoiler...

I managed to continue to keep up in the middle ages, despite the fact that techs were traded pretty quickly among the AI, often meaning only one or two civs didn't have all known techs. So many of my cities got banks before universities. I think I stuck to 40 turn researching until I went for Electricity, Medicine, and the Scientific Method.

Towards the end of the middle ages, the arabs demanded some gold. As far away as they were, I refused, and for the first time, I went to war. Of course, I saw only one ansar warrior, or whatever their UU is called, and it was killed by one of my three knights. Throughout the game, I had a fairly weak military, even when I had the resources from trades to build modern units. Since they managed to send over a unit, I figured they weren't busy enough with their ongoing war with the Romans, who were finally going down the path to defeat (although the excellent starting position for Rome kept them alive far longer than I had expected). So I brought Egypt and Spain into the fight. The Arab response was to get Korea to declare war on me. This was handy, since I had actually been considering a war on Korea to get the source of horses southwest of our starting position. With a number of catapult, a few hoplites, my knights, and the few med. infantry I had managed to build, I took three Korean cities that had been in the way for too long. With no other cities in the area to take, I made peace with Korea for their gold and world map.

About the same time Korea declared, China decided it needed some extra space, and declared war on India. Razing half and capturing half, I saw an opportunity to slip some settlers in and grab some extra spices, another source of horses, and in general some good territory. As my first two settlers were about to go on their way, the Arabs, who I had for the most part forgotten about, brought China into the war against me. I very nearly gave up, since they had cavalry and I had hoplites and a couple knights (forgot to mention, I got a great leader from one knight, who rushed Smith's, the only wonder available). I quickly lost those knights, however, as they were taking advantage of an RoP with India to observe the Chinese-Indian conflict. But I guess I was blessed this game, as the RNG was friendly to me yet again (two-turn revolution was the first). I think China lost more cavalry then I did hoplites, and a few times a lone veteran hoplite in a city managed to hold off a veteran cavalry. The first of those victories trigged my golden age, which aided me in waging war. I guess China was much more occupied with fighting India, since all that I lost was two of the Korean cities, one Greek city, and a few workers. In return, I managed to take two Chinese cities that were to Greece's south and auto-razed another. I might have also been able to get one of the Korean cities back, but I was worried that with India down to its last, I would be seeing more units come from China. So I got peace, as well as a Chinese town right were I had been planning to settle (the settlers never made it out of their home cities, since I didn't want to lose one, and the territory I was going for was claimed), and a once Indian town that would have claimed my lone source of coal if its borders expanded.

Using my golden age, I did build a lot of universities and started doing my own research, taking the tech lead for the rest of the game. I also decided to go for Diplo or Space, since my military was no match, and probably Diplomatic since I have no patience to build all of those spaceship parts. I was also second in territory and population after my war, and was quickly surpassing the rest in score (except China).

PTW 1.27f open

1000bc Trade my way into the MA. Get Engineering as our free tech (ottomans are in MA but no free tech :eek: - Ainwood must have been playing with tribe characteristics again :rolleyes: )

Sold Korea techs cheap - they got the same free tech as we did

975 ibt Arabia cautiously demands a tech - no as they are across the world - they dow on us. Barbs are approaching our towns we have 473 in our treasury. Will try to buy some alliances against Arabia with it before the barbs come.

950bc buy alliances against Arabia with Egypt, Rome, Spain, and France, open Delphi to be a barb sink

ibt delphi sacked uncountable times

900bc barbs appear near corinth - open to be a sink (recently settled, not far on first build)

450bc ibt we finally learn the republic & revolt with 4 turn revolution

370bc the Greek Republic is born

330bc trade for feudalism (now down monarchy only)

50 ad and spain is massing troops next to my cities - I think they will dow next turn

70 ad Spain bypassed my cities [dance]

190 ad buy partially researched invention and trade for Monotheism (we're down monarchy, theology, chivalry and gunpowder)

260 ad Jaipur decides to join the Greek Empire

310 many trades this turn - down monarchy, education (only known by 3) and I think astronomy (china's building Copernicus) Roads to other empires have been built so will get a second dye online to trade for techs.

450ad get 2nd dye hooked up and trade it plus gpt for education

500ad Ganges decides to become Greek

520ad China dow on Indians

540ad completed FP (by hand)

650ad completed more trades now I'm down Physics (known by 2) and up several others (I think I started this trade round by buying chemistry with 8 turns left on 1 scientist research and netted Music theory, democracy, Free Artistry, Metallurgy, Astronomy, navigation, banking, Astronomy and horses - I wish I had kept track of whom I traded what with as I think it was one of my best trade rounds ever). Unfortunately since I'm paying out 85gpt for these techs, I can't revolt to democracy for 20 turns without ruining Greece's good name... and we did no trades with India - I'm eyeing her saltpeter and second horse city and might join in the war in a bit :satan:

670ad -- After trading those techs around, the world went crazy - Arabia dow Ottomans, Rome dow China :crazyeye:

710ad France lands a single warrior next to a worker (they are receiving furs and 14gpt for a tech but I think we are about to get declared on anyway. Moved hoplite to cover worker and to trigger our GA if attacked)

ibt Arabs want alliance against china - no thanks, but they will give us some gems for metallurgy :). French warrior moved into our territory, next to a city but avoided the hoplite

720ad hoplite and worker moved into city.

ibt warrior avoided the hoplite and seems to be strolling around our countryside.

740ad India's cities changed into Industrial age and India and China made peace (before I was ready to get into the war :( )

ibt French finally dow on us :mad: , but attacked a warrior and not a hoplite - no GA, but do have reverse WW

750ad Buy MA with Egypt against France, and MA with Ottomans against France

840 ad India has moved 2 cavs into our territory - I guess Ghandi wants back those cities that flipped :( . We trade our way into IA, hoping for Nationalism as our free tech as hoplites and knights vs cavs isn't going to be fun :cringe:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rrauclassic33endmaminimap.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/flips.jpg

Open PTW

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2020689&postcount=3)
If I put this up early, it should give everyone else confidence that their game is in better shape.

The trio of early MA mistakes

I entered the MA in 925BC, but without the important resources of horses or iron, and without a representative government. Construction had been my final tech that I was holding out on procuring - it was available at 1000BC. I delayed the easy purchase because I would have preferred to be in a better form of government, and I did not want to precipitate the barbarian uprising, because at this time I had become very aware of the undeveloped territory to the south. Clearly the change of ages would cause significant barbarian trouble. However, my delay to 925BC before entering the MA did not gain me any government tech opportunity, and it cost me a better trading opportunity. So it was my first big mistake of the age.

I moved to the MA when I received the message that there was a massive barbarian uprising, and hence decided that there was no point waiting any further, and so purchased construction, and received engineering as my free tech. I traded the Koreans into the MA very generously, and they received Monotheism. In spite of my generosity, there was absolutely no trade I could do to get this tech.

I then committed my second mistake of the time. I was in a phony war with the Ottomans. I wasted engineering to get out of this war (further devaluing the tech). The tech was far too valuable to waste on this even if they had received a bonus tech, which of course they did not.

And then I realised that I needed a decent government quickly so I put research to republic. It was going to take 40 turns even at max. I decide to build libraries across the land to speed this up. Marketplaces would have been more useful, even though these were cheap libraries, and the culture helped. I built libraries in about 5 of my key cities, but this made no difference to the due date on republic. At least marketplaces would have given me more economy to try and trade for the tech.

These three mistakes are the beginning of a tech slide that makes progress very difficult for the rest of the age and beyond. I am unable to buy republic at any time and finish research finally (40 turns later) in 190BC. Fortunately, I was left alone through this time. Five turns of anarchy see me into a republic in 90BC.

The Southern Expansion

In the 800 years of middle ages so far we have added 3 cities (now 10) and 3 workers (now 4). We are very short on workers - usually I have a bunch more due to war at this stage. On the positives, we have found sources of horses and iron. The Koreans have already claimed the horses, but we are able to claim the iron and ivory, and do so.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_90BC.jpg

The Chinese War

Our military is very weak, but now with iron available we have a chance to make a semi reasonable force and attack a weaker neighbour. So we sart building warriors with the intent to hook up our iron and upgrade to medieval infantry. We never get the chance. In 340AD, the Chinese declare war and attack. They raze our east coast, coastal town, but kick off our GA. In spite of this, the Chinese start turning up with riders, and take Sparta, a 1st ring city.

The Chinese bring in Egypt into the war against us. Egypt is not much of a threat. They have one city on the southern coast, but the rest is buried on the far side of the continent. For peace China wants Corinth, our furs city to the east. I don't think I have ever had to give a city for peace before, so I stubbornly refuse. A few turns later they have conquered Corinth, and now want another first ring city for peace. At this point in the game, I am almost ready to concede, and let the Chinese overrun my positions, but finally I decide, well lets see how long we can survive. I take the peace deal in 470AD (net loss 4 cities).

I am still at war with Egypt. though, so I finally connect up the iron, upgrade a bunch of warriors to MI and attack Abydos on my southern coast. We take the city and peace for 58gp and 2gpt.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_550AD.jpg

Unrealised Military Ambition

We find at this time that the Koreans (who got to our horse resource first) are only average versus us, and the horse city is exposed, and hard to reinforce. We therefore think that a Korean war will net us horses, and so start preparing for this with a further buildup of MI, and catapults.

In 620AD we are boosted with the hand built forbidden palace.

Before we are ready, we find that the Koreans have gunpowder, and a source of saltpeter, meaning that our small force of MI backed by an even smaller force of the weak catapults will be up against muskets - not good. Similar considerations rule out India at this time, and China is simply a run away behemouth at this point.

The Culture War

We decide on a very different strategy while we try to catch up in tech. We decide to try and use cultural pressure to grab the horse resource, and to flip Indian cities that are projecting into our 'zone'. Our cheap libraries are very useful in this regard. A tight build of new cities commences, as we try to maximise the potential from our lands. We succeed in taking the horses fairly quickly.

Our culture versus India looks fairly similar, however, the strategy doesn't appear to work well, especially in 1000AD when Miletos flips to the Indians!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_1000AD.jpg

Tech Catch Up

Since I was already facing muskets and falling rapidly behind in tech, I decided to rush straight toward cavalry as fast as possible, and then war. We ran into another problem when we found we had no saltpeter, and could not trade for saltpeter. So finally, we decided to concentrate on improving the economy and buying tech as fast as possible to catch up. We were able to agree to several MAs against distant foes for tech at this time as well. These wars remained phony from our point of view, fortunately. First we warred against Rome for monotheism (finally, about 1700 years after this tech first became available!), then Arabia for Chemistry.

Buying tech from last is actually quite cheap, so we focussed on building a bunch of marketplaces and banks to buy the rest of the age. Unfortunately, there were no opportunities for two-fers, so every trade was a one for one. Also, I noted that it seemed that I got the best prices from the weakest civs? This was quite handy, because I really did not want to give China more money.

In 1030AD we enter the Industrial Ages, getting Medicine as our free tech. We are still well behind, and can only pick up a few optional MA techs with this (including chivalry, so we can at least build knights, now). We enter the IA with 23 densely packed cities:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_1030AD.jpg
Future plans? Space or Diplomacy seem the only likely options at this time, assuming we can hold out the Chinese threat!

My second GOTM and first attempt at describing a game...

This was quite an unusual game in that after 3900BC pretty much everything went according to plan. I could almost say that it was dull. I think this was due to the following:

1.) Even the nearest civs were very far from our starting location and nobody started to the South from us, so grabbing those horses and iron to the South, even though they were relatively far, was quite easy.

2.) The choke point where the Romans started effectively sealed off half of the Civs from us. So even though I was in war with most of them for a long time, they didn't bother me apart from the occasional lone spearman or knight that they dropped off from a boat.

3.) The other civs waged war on each other a lot.

4.) As a result of the less than spectacular starting position, I made a rather conservative plan. For example, I haven't even tried to build any Ancient or Middle Age wonders.

Anyway, rough timeline (after the fact, from memory, so a bit vague):

4000BC

Settler moves NE, mainly because I convinced myself (based on what I read in the speculation thread) that the tile under the fog to the NE-NE is a hill. I figured in worst case I will settle on that and have an easy to defend location with two bonus grasslands within reach. Accordingly, I was highly disappointed to see that the tile to the NE-NE was in fact a mountain. Nonetheless I moved the worker West, as I had planned, to get optimum view of the surroundings. For the record, had I not read the speculation thread, I would probably have moved the settler to the North and eventually settle on the tile N-N from the starting position. The capital position I ended up with wasn't too bad either, it was next to a river, fortunately it still had two bonus grassland in the radius, and there were wines nearby. Not the best but workable.

3950BC

Settler moves N, worker moves back to the starting position.

3900BC

Settler builds Athens, worker starts road (and later mine) on the starting location.

3850BC-1000BC

Athens built 3-4 scouting warriors, some hoplites for protection and happiness, a granary, and then settler+hoplite combos at a steady but rather slow pace. We researched Writing at minimum speed and made a killing in trading it to the other civs. I might have researched Literature the same way but its trading value wasn't noteworthy any more (so as a matter of fact I might have bought Literature from someone). The next thing we researched ourselves was Industrialization, everything inbetween was bought or "learned" from others as a courtesy of the Great Library.

I started to scout towards West on the North edge of the jungle. The second warrior went towards South-East to the shore and then up North, and the third to the South across the jungle (I think there was a fourth one as well, perhaps replacing the third that died an early death).

I met the Indians and the Chinese quickly, and then the Romans later on. Traded for contacts to the others. All the scouting warriors were killed by barbarians, but not before we made contact with every other civ and discovered the horses and iron to the South. So in a sense losing the warriors was a blessing because they accomplished what they were meant for and I didn't have to bring them back and "feed" them. It also made me realize that barbarians were quite active in this game so I started to guard my workers with hoplites diligently. I lost only one worker when a conscript barbarian horseman killed my veteran fortified hoplite. I remember this because this was about the only outrageous thing the RNG did to me during this game.

The first wave of settlers built a single ring of cities around Athens, plus an extra city to get the furs near the Eastern shore. A major barbarian uprising sacked this fur-city like 20 times over shortly after it was built, but I cleverly spent all the money beforehand on building embassies and population was at 1, so the barbarians destroyed only about 5 shields and stole around 10 gold.

Shortly after we met, the Romans demanded tribute (some technology I think). We had a deal going where we were paying large amounts of gold per turn for contact and/or tech and I didn't think they would break it, but they did and declared war. This saved us a bunch of gold, but strangely enough it also screwed up our reputation. Nobody was willing to make gold-per-turn-for-tech deals with us afterwards. I was quite pissed about this at first but ultimately it didn't matter.

We engaged our Indian and Chinese friends to provide a protective cushion between us and the Romans (read: military alliance), and they did such a good job that we never saw a Roman unit during this period. The Romans also dragged in someone from the Western half of the continent but those units never made it to our half, see again choke point.

Shortly after the discovery of Map Making, the Chinese also demanded tribute (territory map and cash), which we handed over without hesitation.

1000BC-10AD

The project of bringing the southern iron and horses within our borders was started and successfully finished during this period. You can see the project underway in the 570BC screenshot I attached. I built a city to span the distance across the jungle, another one next to the horses, and a third one next to the iron. These cities were quite far apart from each other and from the core but I figured it was worth anything to get horses and iron. Plus at that point I wasn't sure yet how far away the other civs were so I was kind of in a hurry. The plan was to connect the horses first, start building horsemen, then connect the iron and mass-upgrade to knights and teach the Chinese a lesson. :spank:

The Indians built the Great Library in Delhi in 730BC. This further clarified our plans: grab the Great Library before we buy Education to take full advantage of the fact that the owner of the GL can learn advances past Education.

10AD-750AD

The time has finally come to punish the insolent Chinese. We didn't have enough money to upgrade all the horsemen, so the offensive was launched with a 2:1 mix of knights and horsemen. The Chinese went down with surprising ease, one might even say that I overengineered this attack a bit. A Great Leader was generated right on cue, just before I was about to occupy Beijing (see second screen shot, from 580AD), so a Forbidden Palace was built in the former Chinese capital, by the books. You can see that Mycane (next to our iron ore) is building a Colosseum. That was supposed to become a Forbidden Palace until the Great Leader appeared and the opportunity of building the FP at a better location presented itself.

As a matter of fact, we were at war with the Romans, the Indians, the Egyptians, and one or two others as well during this period, so the war went on on three fronts (to the North with the Chinese, to the West with Romans/Indians, and on the Eastern shore with the others who landed units there) for more than half a millennium. This might sound scary, but thanks to the Golden Age that we used to produce almost exclusively knights, in reality this was all a piece of cake. The long war also produced several more Great Leaders which were rather inconsequential since there were no wonders to build (more exactly I didn't have the techs). I think I used all of them to make armies, which then also didn't make much of a difference.

At the culmination of the war, we marched into Delhi (which, just like most other Indian cities, was now owned by the Chinese). At this point the game was, in essence, won. Via the Great Library, we learned almost all mandatory Middle Age advances, plus a few optional ones, most notably Democracy (but not Military Tradition, unfortunately).

This also reminds me of government issues. Greece was a despotism for the longest time. A switch to monarchy was made shortly before the Great War to be able to make the most out of the inevitable Golden Age that started when the Chinese hordes committed suicide on the impenetrable wall of hoplites (those guys really rock, hehe :) ). I was debating with myself for long whether to choose monarchy or republic. Eventually I decided in favor of monarchy due to the 2gpt unit maintenance that I believe is now standard for republics in GOTM. Still not sure if this was a good call. We stayed a monarchy until the successful introduction of Universal Suffrage, at which point we moved on to democracy. I am sure this was a good call. :)

At the time I finished the first war against the Chinese, I think I would have had the choice to continue the war on the Koreans, Romans, Chinese, and maybe Egypt, using knights, then cavalry and eventually a cavalry/infantry/artillery combo, but I decided to knock it off and go for a research lead and tanks. The former might have yielded an earlier victory in terms of in-game time, but the latter was definitely the more time efficient in real life. This way, the late Middle Ages and much of the industrial era was an almost-zero-maintenance effort with setting up build queues and sometimes moving workers around.

Went a bit further than the middle-ages ;)

I've copied your original to the staff forum, and to save you re-writing it, I'll post it back when the final spoiler opens. :)

I entered Middle Ages in 900BC trying to develop the Southland into a second core and at war with India, Korea and Egypt. And with tons of barbs around from the Uprising.

Development. I had 4 settlers in the jungle heading south at 1000BC. Wasn't able to found "Palace" by the cows until 630Bc, 14 turns later. These settlers, and others as I was building them almost to the exclusion of everything else, had to dodge barbs constantly. I had to retreat the settlers more times than I could advance them.

I hand built the FP in Thermopylae right next to China in 190BC and next turn added a worker to "Palace" to get it to pop 7. I had run Athens down to pop 1 at that point and abandoned it, jumping the palace to the southern core, and so had "two" cores operating. The northern core was more like 1/2 a core since it was next to China.

Military. At the start of MA in 875BC I had 11 Warriors and 1 Archer.
500BC. 10 Warriors, 1 Archer and 1 Hoplite.
10AD. 8 Warriors, 1 Archer and 5 Hoplites.

Very light for being at war with 4 civs and the barbs, but India was the only civ close and they sent units in ones and twos which I could pick off with warriors.

The barbs were allowed to pillage new towns as they were settled. I counted 39 pillages by barb horseman. Botched the money angle and lost about 600g to this pillaging.

In 750BC I used my free tech Monotheism to get Republic and buy Peace with Korea and India. A few turns later, Egypt and Rome (Allied against me at one point) each gave a town for peace after never showing up to do battle.

I finally got the last barb camp in the south in 150BC although they had been only a minor irritation since about 500BC.

In 170AD I declared on Korea, who was in my 2nd ring in the south, in order to clear them out and to try to trigger a GA with a Hoplite. A number of turns later I hit a redlined Knight with a veteran Hoplite and won, triggerring the Golden Age in 300AD.

330AD. 1 Warrior, 1 Archer, 5 Knights, 6 Hoplites, 7 MedInf
490AD. Up to 11 Knights

Research. I did minimum (10% or 1 scientist) or no research for a long time in MA. Basically until the 2nd core was set up in 170BC. Then turned on research and did Education in about 12 turns. Then Astronomy in 5 and Chemistry in 4.


The Golden Age showed up about then and the remaining 4 required techs were researched in 4-turns each. We entered IA in 470AD. The AI had contributed 6 of the required techs to complete MA.

The Greek Republic at 490AD just into IA. We're now starting on clearing the jungle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HD_GOTM33_490AD.JPG

590 BC: India and China both got to MA 1 turn before me. Got Both Govs. for gpt sold to every one for all they had. trade feud. for mono.

I still was keeping science at 0% buying most from India and China. They were getting them fast.

Lib. and markets in all citys I was first in culture.

Gov switch to Rep. 3 turns.

Was still at war with Rome and Arabras (they both said pay or, I picked or), but I never fired a shot. Paid the world to go to war with me.

Spain was in bad shape. Arabras killed them off. And Rome was killing Korea.

I mad peace after the 20 turns of allied was ended with peace for peace only.

I bought Democ. from India. Sold to everone who could buy it. The next turn India suprise attacked. (ending 102 gpt I was paying them) I swith production to war unit. Had Rome and China allied with me. China also got right of passage.
India got no cities on their first wave. But tey did triger my GA.

Go, Go, China Go!!!!!!!!!!!!! They rushed in and stopped India. The only real short turm dammage from India was on turn three of the war when they destroied my horse culture flip city in the south. But the next turn I took the horse city from china and 3 more cities.

Also at this point I turned my science to 90% I was even or ahead with everone, so started for my tech lead w/GA 17 turns to go.

China only took 3 Indian citys one of them was the Indian Capitial I took the rest. 2 Indian cities culture fliped from China back to India But I had troops there and got both including the orginal cap. At this point Rome had done little to help I think because they were still at war with Korea and had Korea down to 3 cities. Spain was gone. Egypt allied with India against China.

With 8 turns still to go before I could end the 2 allied, India had 1 main land city and a one tile island off the coast. India will give me the little island. I deside to wait for 8 more turns so I don't get the rep hit just in case I cannot hold a tech lead and have to start buying them again.

No Luck, Rome finilly does something in the war they take the last Indian main land city. The Indian Capitial is now that little size 1 island.

As soon as I can I get peace from India lotsa gp/gpt.

I'm now get a tech every 4 turns. I sell to china and anyone who will pay gpt. With the gpt I'm at science 90%, lux 10%, and still 4 to 5 turns for each tech even after my GA ended. I'm also about +100 gold per turn left over!

China's cities start to culture filp to me I think I got 3.

Rome is the only one who I did not sell any techs to. At this point Rome looks weak so I attack. I get Arabras and the Otto to help, they wanted less than 10gpt ea.
Rome and all their cities fell in less then 10 turns.

Shortly after the Rome war China attacked with out warning!!! They did little damage.
I got the whole world to go to war (I didn't need the help this time, but if everyone is at war with China then China cannot buy any techs). I took about 1/2+ of their cities. and made peace on turn 21 of the war. I was in the IA by then w/Railroad to every city.

I was the first to the IA, I got nat. was at war with China (I won), way ahead in gold
and no dought I could win any way I want.

Open - PTW 1.27f

Well, I certainly cannot win any way I want, at least not without a late finish.

After what seemed like a steady improvement in my CIV skills since I started playing GOTM with #29, I thought I'd do much better than this. The barbs (and some risky decisions) really set back my early devcelopment, and I now have virtually no resources. I was able to steal horses from India in the south by plopping a city right next to their border and `culture-flipping' the horse tile, thanks to cheap libraries. And I have secured the iron in the far south. But I am buying saltpeter from the Ottomans, which I was only able to do recently once I had a tech that seemed worthwhile to him. And I failed to secure any land that ended up providing coal, so my plans for a rapid industrialization at the beginning of the IA has been put on hold. China also just decided to sneak attack me with riders and cavalry, and I'm still defending with hoplites. I'm hoping that a military alliance with India against China is going to save me. We'll see.

My best move so far has been to buy Physics, then Magnetism and Theory of Gravity just as the last two became available and affordable, but before everyone had them (so I could make some money back), and before anybody had discovered an IA tech yet, so that I could reap some benefits from my free one (Steam Power). After selling it around, I am now researching at 100% but still raking in 100+ gpt. (Well, I was until China attacked me last turn, thereby weaseling out of the gpt they were paying me.)

My biggest mistake was, I think, waiting too long to finish setting up the second core -- I was midway through the Middle Ages before I jumped my palace. Once I was behind in expansion, I should have settled for my ten cities, with two cores, and built a bunch of units to steal the other civs' cities. Instead, I kept building and trying to claim the bad lands in the jungles with the hopes that they would one day become fertile. But that's just taking way too long. Probably I have become too reliant upon fast units like knights and cavalry when I go on the offensive, and I didn't have enough of these so I didn't want to attack. I need to become comfortable with longbowmen and catapults.

Right now, I'm thinking that my only good option is a diplomatic victory. I've started a prebuild for Theory of Evolution, which I hope to get to propell me faster toward the end of the era. With such a frantic tech pace, this may be my best way to get some good techs first and remain in the trading game. Then I'll do a careful calculation to estimate when to begin a prebuild for the UN.

That is, as long as China doesn't marginalize me first.

Should FP 1275BC

:band:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/toyo_33_sh_fp_1275.JPG

90 AD waiting for chivalry...

:bounce: :sleep: :bounce: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/toyo_33_wait_ch.JPG

End of India an China 410AD waiting MT...

:spear: :ar15:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/toyo_33_wait_mt_end_ind_ch_410ad.JPG

DOMINATION 680AD 11h 51m 8777 Fraxis 10,xxx Jason

:aargh: :worship: :aargh:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/toyo_33_map_680ad.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/toyo_33_hist2_680ad.JPG

My mistake - I put that the qualification a finished game was a qualification for this spoiler - sorry about that :blush:

PTW 1.27f Open

I entered the Middle Ages in 975 BC. As soon as I entered it I made a mistake. I had the good fortune of getting Engineering as my free tech. I had been researching republic for the last 10 or so and should have made the decision to abandon that research and switch to invention as other civs had gotten CoL and philosophy before me, as it was I wasted 20 turns continueing to research republic at minimum. Given that my intention was to upgrade horsemen to cavalry this was silly. As a result I didn't get to MT till 400 AD. Once I got MT I didn't compound my error by going with too few cavs. If I had gotten to MT 20 turns sooner 20-30 cavs would have been enough to deal with the chinese. But at 400 AD the chinese looked way too tough and I decided to wait until I could upgrade 50 horses. I finally declared on the chinese in 520 AD with my 50 cavs - the war didn't last long but I lost twenty cavs. By the time I finished with Chinas homeland I had another 50 upgraded cavs ready to join the remaining thirty and I attacked India and Korea and reached Rome in 840 AD. Rome at this time was a Chinese outpost, the Romans themselves had earlier been annihilated as consequence of an alliance organised by the cunning Greeks. :)
By this point in the game I was aware that I had already blown a shot at a decent time with the invention mistake. I perhaps should have done as toyo did and went for chivalry ( and china ) while waiting for MT to roll round. But I never seem to do that well with knights. I was calculating that i would need to go for space and milk after I had defeated the remaining civs to get a good score. To compound my irritation I got a series of inexplicable crashes to desk top all on the same turn, after several hours faffing and crys for help I managed to get rolling again. But I was hacked off and just wanted to get the thing over with - I took the last Ottoman city in 1050 AD giving me a conquest victory in 1060 AD. Firaxis score 7005. Jason 88??. At the end my in game score was increasing at 60 points per turn but not even the thought of AlanH trouncing me again could persuade me to continue. ;)
Ordinarily I would expect to get a dom or conquest victory on a standard Emperor pangea before 1000 AD unless I did something really stupid. I didn't do anything really stupid, the invention mistake perhaps wouldn't have been that significant on another map. But on this map everything was a struggle from the start position, the surrounding civs with their early MA UUs, the lack of iron and horses nearby, the barbs looting me stupid, the brutal tech pace ( considering there was only one other scientific civ - I can see why ainwood changed the Ottomans trait from scientific). I used every dirty trick in the book to keep myself in it - RCP, infinite map trading, resource disconnect, phoney wars and I was still totally up against it until about 500AD.
This was probably the hardest emperor game I've played. The inital 100 or so turns were also the most interesting in a GOTM that I can remember.

The End of the World
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SamGOTM33a.jpg

The Military

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SamGOTM33b.jpg

Civ3 1.29f Open

...I learned monotheism as my free technology. I started minimum research on theology, intending to get it first. In 730 BC, I founded Pharsalos south of the jungle near the cattle. Soon afterwards, many barbarian horses converged on Pharsalos. I thought I might fight them off, but several horses couldn't hurt my hoplite and promoted him to elite, then one horseman killed him without getting hurt (I think) and barbs carry away hundreds of gold. More horsemen converged on Pharsalos, so I gave 54 gold to five people (those I knew I didn't intend to attack), and the barbs only stole 3 gold.

In 630, I sold monotheism to Rome for the republic, monarchy, their world map, and some gold. I noticed a one tile island which Rome had settled. That should annoy those going for conquest (although they can get it for peace). I decide that I will not attack Rome. I revolt. In 570, I founded Knossos near spices. In 550, I became a republic. In 510, I sold monotheism to China for two luxuries. In 190, I bought engineering from Rome for a lot of gold. I bought theology from India from India for engineering and some gold. I sold theology to China for feudalism and some gold. I started minimum research on printing press. In 130, I founded Argos near iron and ivory. In 90 AD, I bought chivalry from India for my world map and some gold. I bought education from Korea for chivalry, my world map, and some gold. I sold chivalry and invention to France for invention, their world map, and some gold.

In 170, Corinth deposed to China with several military units stationed there. :cry: I lost my source of horses, so I could only build longbowmen, hoplites, catapults, and warriors. In 270, I bought banking from Rome for some gold. I bought gunpowder from Korea for banking and some gold. Unfortunately, there was no saltpeter available. In 370, I bought astronomy from Spain for gunpowder, my world map, and some gold. In 430, I learned printing press. In 520, after refusing my only demand so far, from pathetic Egypt, I bought chemistry from France and physics from the Arabs. I started minimum research on metallurgy. In 580, I bought theory of gravity from India for some gold. I bought magnetism from France for theory of gravity and some gold. I sold theory of gravity and magnetism to Ottomans for metallurgy, horses, incense, their world map, economics, and music theory. When I entered the industrial age.... (to be continued)

As you can see, the barbarian uprising hurt. I decided that if possible, I would conquer just China. However, China is the most powerful nation in the world, and I have few resources (although I have horses and will soon connect iron). I still continued to build horsemen in preparation of the upgrade to knights. I had also built longbowmen, catapults, and warriors to upgrade to persian mercenaries. I may have to just keep going peacefully and buy technologies (I don't have the capabilities to out-research the AI) until fission. My firaxis score will be low, causing my jason score to be low.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27, going for space.

I spent most of the Middle Ages trying to catch up with my own tech rate :lol: I couldn't increase my research capacity as quickly as I wanted. So almost all my efforts went toward doing what I could for research - expanding and growing population, improving the land, and building city improvements.

After entering the Middle Ages in 1075BC I emptied my treasury and a couple of towns to ride out the barbarian uprisings. That worked well. By 900BC I'd absorbed the uprisings with little damage and could start building up my treasury again.

I continued researching Republic at the forty turn rate and learned it in 550BC. I immediately revolted via the "big picture", got a 6 turn revolution, revolted again when asked and got a 3 turn revolution (two turns remaining.) I gave Republic to my rivals to boost their research. In 510BC I became a Republic and was able to start cash rushing some much needed buildings, especially libraries.

After becoming a Republic I ran at zero research for a while since it was a good bet that some of them were researching every available path. And so it was - over the next eight turns my rivals learned Engineering, Chivalry, and in 350BC Theology. I paid 28gpt for Theology and started research again, working on Education. It was a good bet my rivals were researching Invention.

In 330BC I completed building a Forbidden Palace in the north. I added four workers to bring Corinth in the south (beside the cattle) to size 10, then abandoned Athens. And in 310BC my capital jumped as planned. I then had two productive regions, one with Knossos as its core in the north and one with Corinth as its core in the south. By this time I also had the two regions connected by a road through the jungle, so four luxuries were available throughout the empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sirpleb33-2a.jpg

My research rate was still too slow. It would take seven more turns to learn Education. I decided it was time for a Golden Age to temporarily boost the research pace and to hurry the construction of universities. I didn't have much of a military (had 7 archers, 1 horseman, and 1 warrior) so I chose Korea as a target for a brief skirmish which could be terminated without much bloodshed. I declared war in 290BC and tried to destroy a Korean settler+spearman pair and the one Korean town in my territory. My first attacks were a disaster, the Koreans defeated a number of my units. I cash rushed more and finally in 210BC had a Hoplite win, triggering my GA.

That finally got things moving at a better pace. I learned Education in 190BC (8 turns) and gave it to most of my rivals - after they learned Invention I wanted some of them to pick Astronomy to research.

Korea agreed to peace in 170BC and that was the end of our little war.

I learned Banking in 90BC (5 turns) and was able to trade for Invention. I then switched to the bottom path, learning Gunpowder in 6 turns, Chemistry in 4, Metallurgy in 4, Physics in 5, Theory Of Gravity in 5, and Magnetism in 5. Along the way I traded for Astronomy, Music Theory, Printing Press, and Navigation.

It was 370AD when I learned Magnetism and entered the Industrial Age. By this time I'd built Copernicus' and Newton's - I prebuilt for those as high priority wonders since I wanted all the research help I could get.

There was some ongoing warfare among my rivals during the Middle Ages which resulted in Spain's destruction in 250AD. I didn't join in, just kept trading and gifting tech with everyone to keep them happy with me.

In 370AD my map looked like this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sirpleb33-2b.jpg

I had seven luxuries, three of them via trade. Most of my cities now had universities as well as libraries. I'd recently begun to have spare production capacity and finally started building barracks and Knights. I had just 3 Knights by the end of the Middle Ages but production was ramping up quickly. Greece will finally become a military force as well as a scientific one in the Industrial Age!

SirPleb why did you revolt 2x in a row? I've never seen this, why is it done?

SirPleb why did you revolt 2x in a row? I've never seen this, why is it done?
Its a 'sort-of' bug / exploit.

If you research a tech (rather than buy it), you are given the option of revolting to the new govt. If you choose that, you will be taken the the screen to check the next tech. If you choose 'show me he big picture', you have access to your advisors and can go to the domestic advisor screen. You will see how many turns you are likely to be inanarchy for, and if its too long, you can hit the 'revolution' button again. It will give you a new number of anarchy turns.

[civ3mac] 1.29 open

900 bc
After entering the MA, I still didn't have a government, iron or horses and I had a great number of barbs in the south to deal with. The barbs turned out to be a lot of fun. My roaming warriors paid the ultimate price but succeeded in leading the barb horses to two Chinese settler pairs. I was laughing the whole time. The remaining barbs were lured in by Argos, on the southern edge of the jungle near the cattle, hurting me very little.

My world at 1000 bc:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1000bc.jpg

775 bc
I finally got Monarchy and underwent a 6-turn anarchy. Due to the lack of resources, I realized that my drive for domination would be seriously hampered. This really threw me out of my typical game. That and the extremely fast tech pace in the AA (I slowed it down in the MA) are two of the reasons this game was so much fun.

In an effort to slow down the tech pace, and the Arabs, the strongest civ in the western hemisphere, I declared war on them and signed MAs with Rome, Egypt and Spain. China was still involved in a very slow war with the Indians, so all the major players were being kept rather busy.

At this point I decided to improve terrain, expand and build libraries and markets in my core. I did this almost at the expense of military. Just building enough to discourage any potential aggressors.

110 bc
Other than declaring on the Romans and signing a MA with Egypt, things had been pretty uneventful. Being careful not to break any deals with the ai, I was now at peace with everyone. That would soon change. The iron was finally hooked up and the luxuries were plentiful. I had ivory, wines and furs, trading China for dyes and would soon hook up the spices in the south.

My focus had shifted to military and I was ready to go on the offensive. Having shut off research and counting on the fact that the ai was probably researching everything, my first rival forced to kneel before me would be Ghandi, the current owner of the Great Library.

My world and puny army at 110 bc:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/110bc.jpg

16 warriors
9 swords
8 hoplites

230 ad
By this point I had triggered my GA, conquered most of India including the Great Library and maybe even more importantly taken control of the horses in the south. Capturing the Great Library enabled me to pocket some gold and gave me engineering, feudalism, chivalry, invention, theology and education. I turned up the research and was managing gunpowder in 8.

460 ad
I spent the next couple hundred years beefing up my army and getting the southern area productive. I was having to hand-build the FP by the cattle. Needless to say it was pretty slow going and I probably should have tried a palace jump instead. By 460 ad it was completed along with Leonardo's in the north. By this time China had become a monster so I decided to declare on Rome and MA/ROP with China. The sheer number of troops they would soon move through my territory was daunting indeed.

My world and slightly larger army at 460 ad:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/460ad.jpg

5 warriors
7 swords
3 muskets
15 knights
14 hoplite

810 ad
I started a very quick conquest of Korea to obtain saltpeter and the silks. I had been trading with China for saltpeter up until this point and had been upgrading knights since learning military tradition. The most strategic city on the map, Rome, soon became an integral part of my game. I was able to block the Chinese access to the choke for several turns letting their troops back up. I then gave them access and let them have at it. They took Rome and began moving large number of troops through to the other side. My plan was to declare on China next, take Rome and effectively seal off the bulk of their army in the west.

1080 ad
I was still a little hesitant to attack China, so I continued to build my army and wait to declare until all deals had expired. I had unhooked my resources to build horses for upgrade when the Chinese decided it was a good idea to stab their good neighbor to the south in the back. Luckily I had been positioning troops for an invasion of my own and I had enough workers on the resources to hook them up again. It's almost as if the ai knew what I was planning. I loss no cities on the first turn and their initial invasion only consisted of a few muskets and cavalry. I in turn claimed the spices and a few other cities including Rome. Signing MAs with almost everyone in the west more than took care of the bulk of the Chinese military.

My world and army at 1080 ad:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1080ad.jpg

5 warriors
5 swords
9 horses
18 muskets
23 knights
35 cavalries

1200 ad
I had been researching hard toward steam power in an effort to get rails to the front and I entered the IA. Things were really starting to snowball for me militarily and I was rolling over China pretty fast. As weak as the ai now was in the west, my domination came shortly into the IA, but that will have to wait for the next spoiler.

My world at 1200 ad:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1200ad.jpg

[ptw] 1.27f - open

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2023259&postcount=31)

In 970AD, I was 2 turns from researching ToG when the RNG gods decided how they would punish me for falling behind on tech. (The rest of the world was already in the industrial age.) I had recently traded for horses from China, who now was offering me a MPP. I accepted and they immediately attacked. :mad:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/dsv_970ad_mm.JPG

I desparately brought everyone into the war against China. Including a fatal MPP agreement to get Spain. (The had a small stack near China's two west coast cities that I thought could help distract China.)

So there I was, Republic, Golden Age, massive WW from loss of cities despite 4 lux resources. No horses or saltpeter. I still had a few Knights a-building, 9 MI, 5 Muskets (an earlier trade), 2 LB, and a bunch of Hoplites. Against Cavalry and railroads.

I felt like I was holding my own until I could make peace (I had lost 6-7 of my 19 cities at that point). I even figured out, eventually, that I had to get back to monarchy and got a 4 turn anarchy.

I got peace and then Spain, who had no more troops on-hand, somehow pulled me back in via MPP. With the renewal of war, China, with Infantry by this time, rapidly reduced me to 5 cities by 1110AD.

At one point, I had secured horses in a trade wiht the Ottomans, but the RNG gods didn't like that, so Ottoman DoW on me the following turn.

I got steam power (free tech) and traded for medince, but I could not trade for nationalism to save my life (literally ;) ).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/dsv_1110ad_mm.JPG

So here I sit, I haven't touched the game since last weekend. I might be able to get peace before get I destroyed but it is a race between that and the end of the MPP. I am not sure I can make myself play it out.

----------------------------------------
On a side note: For S&Gs, I went back to 970AD and started a war with Rome and got China in on my side. All I can say is that things would have turned out much better if I had directed China's aggression rather than letting it find me. I also tried replaying the beginning using some of the things I learned from Sir Pleb's AA post. I was able to increase my growth but I could never seem to get horses or saltpeter, even though I knew where it was.

810 ad
I started a very quick conquest of Korea to obtain saltpeter and the silks. I had been trading with China for saltpeter up until this point and had been upgrading knights since learning military tradition. The most strategic city on the map, Rome, soon became an integral part of my game. I was able to block the Chinese access to the choke for several turns letting their troops back up. I then gave them access and let them have at it. They took Rome and began moving large number of troops through to the other side. My plan was to declare on China next, take Rome and effectively seal off the bulk of their army in the west.


Very nice! :) One of the best moves I've read in the GOTM in a long time :goodjob:

That choke at Rome is one of the most sadistic/inspired features I've seen to date.

As for my MA... entered it in 450BC, and got Engineering as my tech. Good news indeed - nobody else had it so I traded it around and very briefly had a tech lead. I was still at war with China and France and Spain and Korea, but mostly China, who were taking away my core cities.

At some point (don't have my spreadsheet accessible from work...) I lost Athens, and signed peace with China for Corinth, finally abandoning my original core north of the mountains and getting a new palace in Delphi, with its two cows and abundant grassland. Great spot to start again.

After some shennanigans with a French longbowman (eventually whacked by an Elite Hoplite coming down from a mountain!) and the town of Rouens with its 'Super Spear' defender (2 reg+2 vet Archers took 1HP off it, meanwhile it gets promoted twice), I get peace with pretty much everyone, build a bunch of workers, and start about improving the terrain.

I didn't bother with military - just token Hoplite defenders - and concentrated on Libraries and other culture to prevent flips (Mycenae flipped to China; I ended up with 6 cities, all quite productive). Trading Ivory, and also using my single Spices and Iron when necessary (never realised 'til recently that I could trade using my only available Resource/Lux - but Spices for Silks+gpt is better than just Spices!).

Started off revolting to Monarchy (2-turn Anarchy) whilst small, then Republic (2 turns again!) when I got large enough cities.

I realised I was catching up with Rome, who were getting swallowed by China, who were rampaging across the map, taking out India in the MA. I kept wondering when I'd get whacked, but it never came.

Finally entered the IA in 1360 or thereabouts, a whole age behind most of the rest (apart from Rome, who I'd just overhauled, and Arabia still a few techs ahead but marooned on a 1-tile island). I did have 6 nice cities, and the jungle was rapdily disappearing.

My plan was to wait for China to kill me, or to launch, or to win a UN vote (not likely, given they'd been at war with pretty much everyone at one point or another), whilst retaining some semblance of dignity.

Neil. :cool:

Open, PTW 1.27

During the middle ages my notes dwindled off to nothing. During the first turn I got furs connected. 400 years later I finally learn a new government and revolt to republic. 1000 years after that China attacks, and I figure I'm dead, but they decide not to finish me off.

I spent the whole time doing minimal research and struggling to develop some sort of economy. My military was obviously not strong, but overall I wasn't in horrible shape. I had a bunch of cities north of the jungle and a bunch of cities south of the jungle, and I got a forbidden palace built. I'm not good about building the FP early enough, but I'm getting better. (Two months ago I finished it one turn before the end of the game.)

China attacks in 660 AD, for no apparent reason. I enlist the aid of India and Korea, while China draws Egypt in on their side. India, Korea, and China lose lots of troops; I lose most of my northern cities. I'm expecting to lose everything when China offers to make peace. I remember that my military alliances are still in place and decline the offer. Two turns later the alliances run out and China agrees to make peace if I give them a little town. I do, and I start rebuilding. At some point during this I enter the industrial ages, but I have no idea when. The last of my notes read, "Horrible war until 870" which isn't really helpful when reconstructing the game to write this.

Open PTW 1.27

Sabre's 5CC Conquest?

Early Middle Ages
In 1050bc I entered the Middle Ages along with the Ottomans. Checking the Ottomans to see what they were given, hoping for something to trade and I see ... nothing. Um, wait I could have sworn the Ottomans were a scientific civ. A check of the Civilopedia reveals that Ainwood must have changed their trait (as confirmed in the first spoiler thread.) Grrr.

Rome demanded Monotheism in 975bc. I'm not really ready for a war but I'm not giving away a monopoly tech and I can always call on India to block the Romans so I send Ceasar's emissary back empty-handed. Whew - Rome was bluffing!

At this point I'm in dire need of a workforce to develop my lands and luckily the other civs begin offering workers nearly every turn. I begin buying them whenever I could afford to and end up with 7. One of these trades involved exchanging Monotheism for Korea's Engineering. All in all Monotheism netted me only 2 workers and Engineering.

In 250bc I finished my 40-turn research on Republic. I'm last to get there and have no trade opportunities. After a short anarchy (4 turns? for some reason I didn't write this down) Greece becomes a Republic. Since I can't keep up with tech, I just turn science off and decide to play banker to the world ala Moonsinger. It's something I've wanted to play around with and since this conquest attempt isn't quite going as planned (no wars in 4000 years?) I guess now's as good a time as any.

Greece Global Banking Corporation
Basically, the idea of Moonsinger's banking strategy is to constantly buy the other civs' gold and pay them back in payments. This keeps the other civs broke so that they can't rush improvements, upgrade units or buy alliances against me. With only 5 cities I'm kind of limited into how much I can pursue this, but with targetting the big, advanced civs (China, India, Korea and Arabia) I can prevent a game-ending declaration of war. By this point I'm pretty sure a conquest isn't going to happen.

5CC Conquest to 5CC Diplomatic
There were several factors that led me to changing my goal. The first was Ainwood's refusal to place any strategic resources within reach of my cities. :cry: I had iron connected for a few hundred years but that colony was eventually culturally taken by the Koreans. I never had a chance at the horses and the saltpeter was annoyingly spread 1 to a civ. By the time I had a decent force of Medieval Infantry China and India were huge and sporting nice shiny UU's just waiting to roll over my puny little nation. The terrain and blistering tech pace were the big obstacles in not hitting those two before Chivalry. It took forever setting my cities up and getting them ready for a military buildup.

So now my choices were to A)Buy the necessary resources, Chivalry and an alliance with India and try to take out China, B)Wait until the Modern Era and hope for a highly successful late conquest or C)Scrap the whole Conquest idea and embrace my banker role, gunning for a Diplomatic victory.

A and B seemed like very risky paths. With enemies on all sides I was feeling very exposed and vulnerable. So I've decided to go with C and see where that takes me.

GGBC Open For Business
In 450ad I've finished building Cathedrals in 4 of the 5 cities (Delphi is still about 200 years behind) and I'm starting to fall behind in my ability to buy gold. It's time I made the jump to Banking.

450ad - Trade 21gpt to France for Theology
Trade 14gpt to India for Printing Press
Trade Printing Press, 11gpt to France for Education
Trade 636g to India for Banking
Trade Banking to France for Invention, 6gpt
Trade Banking, 30g to Spain for Gunpowder
No saltpeter (this is when I give up on Conquest for good)

In 580ad I trade around for Democracy, Chemistry and Astronomy and immediately enter Anarchy. Anarchy was really painful. I was losing 144gpt and praying for a fast anarchy. Luckily it was only 3 turns (one of the benefits of having such a small nation) and with a Democracy and Banks my trade was really taking off.

Golden Age
610ad - Korea demands 97g. Checking my ledger I see I am paying them 15gpt. I ignore their demands and they declare war. Not only do the Koreans give up the money they deposited with me, they start their war by sending a warrior against a veteran Hoplite in a pop 12 city. Golden Age! My income jumps to 115gpt (not counting the @100gpt tied up in my banking.) The Korean war ends up being very uneventful. I fended off a few swordsmen and longbows and lost just 1 hoplite. No promotions to elite so really no chance at a GL. I could have attacked the few Korean towns to the south but I didn't want to hurt my rep by razing any cities. Peace was granted even up as soon as Korea would talk to me.

The Dirty Side of Banking
Arabia has been my most frequent customer and we've both been profiting. My treasury has grown into the thousands and they have become a tech leader. In 640ad, some math shows we owe the Arabs 2534g. Buying techs is becoming expensive as the tech leaders trade every tech they research the same turn they discover it, keeping me out of the loop. This prevents me from selling any tech I buy and recouping some of my expenses. Being a bit bored, I decided it's time to play a little dirty. A quick steal attempt of Physics from the Arabs would cost 1018g. I either gain a tech at discount or the Arabs declare war and free up alot of my gold. Success! I trade Physics to the Ottomans for Metallurgy.

Two turns later and my debt to the Arabs is up to 3199g and they now have Theory of Gravity. I try another quick steal and again I successfully steal the tech! Hey, this is kinda neat. I've never really tried stealing tech before. In 730ad we get yet another stolen tech from Arabia - this time it's Magnetism and we reach the Industrial Age!

Outlook
Hey, so far so good. After 2 losses trying for conquest this is a fun change of pace and I just might be able to do this. As long as I can keep on China and India's good side I think I can survive and keep up with tech enough to get the UN. I'm going to continue the banking route and keep trying to get tech any way I can.

Tech
1050bc - Monotheism - free tech
925bc - Engineering - Korea for Monotheism, 108g
250bc - the Republic - 40 turn research
450bc - Theology - France for 21gpt
Printing Press - India for 14gpt
Education - France for Printing Press, 11gpt
Banking - India for 636g
Invention, 6gpt - France for Banking
Gunpowder - Spain for Banking
580ad - Democracy - Arabia for 83gpt
Chemistry - Spain for Democracy, 73g
Astrnonmy - Rome for Democracy
640ad - Physics - Arabia stolen
660ad - Theory of Gravity - Arabia stolen
730ad - Magnetism - Arabia stolen

PTW 1.21f open

Like CKS, my notes for anything past the ancient age were non-existant. So from memory, fairly early in the medieval era India declared war on me. They, of course, had war elephants, but were either done with, or nearly done with their GA from a war with Rome. I enlisted China as a war mate. In fact, China would be my war partner in every war for the rest of the game.

I had hopelites, archers and longbowmen. Luckily, India spent most of their troops against China, so I was able to take 3 or 4 towns with the longbowmen. In the process, I got iron! Sometime after this, I finished the FP in a city next to Athens, close to the China border. I made peace as soon as the alliance was up, and started building up knights. I had no more direct wars until the advent of cavalry.

I struggled mightily to keep up in tech, not really succeeding. China had entered a GA while fighting India, and was probably 5 to 7 techs ahead by time I had cavalry. After getting cavalry, I declared on India, getting China and Rome on my side. I pretty much steamrolled India, and then I declared on Korea, again with China (who now had Infantry!) on my side. Korea fell easily. Rome was next. India and Korea only had musketmen and pikemen. Rome had Rifelmen, and I took heavy losses taking the city of Rome. Very heavy.

About this time I entered the Industrial age. I was now the largest civ, but still not the points leader. I owned all of my side of the landmass, except for the northern area of China. I was behind everyone in tech. China was building every wonder, and had all of their territory railroaded. They were very scary, so my goal from now on is to keep their military busy at all times.

Hergrom

I hate Ainwood. I really do!. Compared to cracker, these games are just awfull. No resources near start, nothing. And I hate barbarians! I play with no barbarians in solo games and this game was just a proof for that. Barbarians screwed my all efforts for a quick win. Well, I got a domination win in 630 CE, and I hate that too. I was 5 tiles short of one turn earlier win. I even had nightmares about this game. Last night was literally a nightmare. I just couldn't win this game. Aargh!

I hope your being sarcastic in your remarks Drazek. And I'll bite.

I beg to differ with you on several points. First, the resources and barbs are just two features of Ainwood's games that I enjoy. I really wasn't experienced enough on the couple of cracker games that I played to compare the two, but I have truly enjoyed this year's games so far. And 630 ad(?) is nothing to sneeze at in any case. I'm simply amazed at the domination dates you post.

I think I also had a nightmare about this game.

Drazek - You really think these games are awful? Personally I have a hard time playing a random start anymore because I've gotten so used to the maps of the GOTM. I know I complained about the resources in my recap, but the only reason I didn't get any of them was my play style. The iron, horses and saltpeter were all within reach of everyone given a little effort and the fact I didn't get any of them made me try some stuff I might not have and I'm having a fun game because of it. As for the barbarians, there were some good conversations on dealing with them and, for me, it was a good learning experience.

Drazek - You really think these games are awful?
Yes, but on the other hand, they are also interesting due to their problems. But this game was just too much. AI had all resources very near to their starts and we had a large jungle area between us and resources. I haven't played random games for ages except for some HoF games using MapFinder so perhaps I have forgotten how random games are like...

I can't fault ainwood for creating games that are a challenge. This was a tough game but a lot of players successfully completed it. A lot depended on the decisions you made at the very beginning of the game. Also, whether Saltpeter and Coal were available to you in the later game.

In my opinion, this was one of the toughest GOTMs ever. But that may just be because it was the first GOTM I have lost since my first Deity game in GOTM 14 Rome. The beginning of the game had decisions that focused on the distances to Iron and Horses. If you were able to build a small core around Athens and then expand to the south and southeast before the Chinese then you had it made. Most of the maps I have seen show some Chinese settlement in the SE. I made my first strategic mistake in not developing a strong enough core before expanding to the south to try and capture the Horses and Iron in that area. In other words, I tried to grab them too soon. I succeeded in capturing them but, as a result, I had two cores, neither of which was strong enough in the later game.

In the meantime, the Chinese expanded along my western side and also in the southeast. I ended up with a civ that was shaped roughly like an hourglass. That meant I was vulnerable to attack because any enemy could cut me in half and that would be disastrous. The yellow area is the waist of my hourglass.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/GOTM_33_hourglass.jpg

I built a strong military to scare them off and that worked until the middle of the Middle Ages. I could have survived and been successful, but for the lack of Saltpeter and Coal in the later game. When I got Gunpowder and found no Saltpeter in my territory, I looked around and saw that there was very little in the game. As a matter of fact, no civ had more than one supply of it. That meant there could be no trading. I would have to capture it from another civ. The only practical source was from Korea which had it adjacent to their capital. If I could capture their capital then it would be within the 9 squares of the city. Korea was at war with a couple of other civs and it was vulnerable because it was losing cities. Unfortunately, it was losing them to China, the big dog in my game. I took the chance anyway and sent a group of Knights to land on a hill next to Seoul.

At about the same time I discovered Steam Power and was all geared up for a quick railroad build out when I found I also had no coal. China had seized it early in the game and it was one square outside my border with them.

At that point I was mortally wounded without being attacked. I could not build a railroad system to move units quickly to any point of attack. Not having Saltpeter meant that I could not build the best defensive or offensive units of the Middle Ages, the Musketman and Cavalry. In addition, I could not build Cannons to weaken any attacking units from another civ. The Cannon can be a very powerful defensive unit, but only if you have railroads. At this point, I could see no way to win. It was just a matter of time before one of my neighbors, either China or India, attacked.

Meanwhile, my attack on the Koreans was going well. The red arrow points to the Saltpeter.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/GOTM_33_Korea_Attack.jpg

The Knights I had landed were aided by some Indian Cavalry who attacked piecemeal, but were still effective in reducing the garrison in Seoul. I was very close to capturing Seoul when the Chinese declared war on me. Since they were also at war with Korea and had captured some nearby Korean cities, they just set over a stack of Cavalry to destroy my Knights and that was the end of my clever plan to capture Saltpeter.

The Chinese invasion didn’t take long. Their hordes of Cavalry were more than a match for my Riflemen/Knight groups. First they cut my civ in two and then mopped up each core. Finally in 1060 AD I was conquered.

As you can see, I few different decisions and a little luck would have made a big difference. I note that some players were able to trade for Saltpeter. If I had that opportunity, I would have won the game. Even a powerful civ, such as China was in my game, is really no match for a human player who is evenly matched as far as unit type. If we both had Cavalry I would have attacked them. The human just has a much better grasp of military tactics and can use its units much more skillfully than the AI.

If I had developed my core around Athens a little more then I would have gotten the Coal which was not available later. Just one more city to the west and it would have been mine. But I decided to strike out through the jungle and try for the Iron and Horses. When I got them I thought I had achieved a strategic coup. Unfortunately, it lead to my downfall.

So that early decision lead to a lack of coal. A sparse supply of Saltpeter and its even distribution among all of the civs in the game was really my death knell. Being behind in the tech race for a long time did not encourage me to attack my neighbors. Therefore, they grew strong and rich. I could have lasted a bit longer if I had developed the core around my capital better, but without Saltpeter I was doomed. :cry:

Alexander politely greeted Micca, the emissary from Abu Bakr in the foyer of the palace. Unfortunately that was where the pleasantries ended as Alexander’s refusal of Micca’s demand for the knowledge of currency led to a Declaration
Of War from the Arab nation. “We don’t want to go this alone, get me the Spanish and Indian ambassadors” said Alexander to his aide.

The dealings with the two ambassadors had gone about how Alexander had expected and as he had hoped, they would be fighting the Arabs for him while his nation continued to prosper.

“I want to welcome you all to the Republic of Greece” Alexander said at the celebration of the inaugural session of the Greek Parliament. “We need to have a meeting regarding China and our future expansion needs,” he said to General Grahamiam, the commander of his military.

Alexander began “Gentlemen, first let me announce the signing of a treaty with the Arabs and the acquisition of the city of Adan in eastern Arabia as tribute. Now let’s discuss China. They are in our way and from all indications will not be able effectively counter our Medieval Infantry and Pike troops. Let’s us strike now before the Chinese military adds new abilities that we do not want to face.”

Little did Alexander know when he invited Egypt and India into an alliance against China that this little border skirmish, would lead to worldwide warfare. Soon the Egyptian, Ottoman, Korean and Spanish were battling the Arabs, French and Romans as well as China and India. Greece through some bit of luck managed to escape being allied against until Spain broke an alliance and razed the undefended Greek city of Adan. The war against China went well as city after city fell to the Greek troops. At the battle for Shanghai, an unwise Chinese Archer died while attacking an Elite Greek Hoplite and the Grecian Golden Age had begun. Shortly after, the same Hoplite defended against another Chinese Archer and the Great Leader Pyrrhus would be born from the forge of battle. Pyrrhus would soon drive the citizens of Shanghai to complete the second Greek capital.

At the ribbon cutting ceremony for the new War Academy, Alexander announced to the cheering crowds the fall of the Chinese capital of Beijing. The crowd seemed to sense the anticipation in Alexander’s voice that this conflict was finally, after over 500 years was coming to an inevitable conclusion. In 360 AD, India dealt the final blow to the last Chinese city and Mao was no more. Throughout this period, Greece had continued to add cities, knowledge and land to it’s national standing. The completion of Leonardo’s Workshop in Athens completed the period on a high note for Greece.

Alexander addressed his advisors “Gentlemen, all went well in this little escapade with Korea. Their three nearby cities are now ours and they have offered us a technology and some cash for peace and I have accepted it. We now need to turn our attention to that little island to the northeast. I have always trusted my opponents’ opinion when something is of value and if he is willing to build a city on that little gulag, there must be a reason. Get my the guy who’s always talking about boats and ships, Sir Gubsy or something like that. We’ll need transport for our knights to that island as soon as it can be arranged.”

“So the Ottoman Empire has seen fit to land knights near Argos, get me their ambassador, let’s see what he knows about this” Alexander said to his aide.

The Ottoman Ambassador was quite pleased with the trade, getting all those annual gold payments for the knowledge of Democracy. That was until he reached his embassy and found out that his government had declared war on Greece and his deal was worthless. To learn of the quick demise of the knight expeditionary force made the day a complete disaster.

Alexander felt quite sorry to hear of Cleopatra’s demise at the hands of the Ottoman Empire, seeing that it was he who got her into the war with an alliance for pocket change. Joan however, was doing much better since the alliance against the Ottomans, but would soon chicken out when she became the sole opponent for the great Ottoman Sihapi.

The allied conference had gone better than Alexander had expected thought as he headed to the gala for the new Trading Post In Athens. The new cavalry unit would rule the field and the cash influx would allow the Greek research to continue unabated. With the discovery of Magnetism, the Greek Nation entered the Industrial Age and began adding railroads to the core cities. The entire world was still in conflicts that now spanned over 750 years. The world was dividing into three tiers of power. The Greek, the Ottoman and Indians at the top, with the Korean, French and Arabs as the middle class and Rome barely avoiding going the way of China and Egypt. The Greek empire had a sizeable technology lead, though was only a middle of the road military power. Where the Greek nation had an ace yet to play was gold, as the nation’s treasury was over 10,000 pieces strong and growing thanks to foreign contributions.

CIII 1.29 Open

In 900BC I entered the MA with tech leadership, but had just 7 cities and a modest army (9 hops, 12 archers, 1 cat and 3 warriors). Although I badly needed strategic resources and luxes, I was not yet ready to confront the mighty Chinese. 900BC to 390BC was a war preparation period. Korea entered the MA in 650BC, but got Mono. for their free tech (same as me), so no trading opportunites there. Traded for Republic in 550BC and revolted (4 turns of anarchy).

War vs China 390 BC-360 AD

By 390 BC my army was up to 12 hops, 22 archers, 5 cats and 2 Was, and the northern road network was complete. The plan was to use hops to pillage all Chinese iron and horse resources, and to cut all roads around Beijing. The remaining hop/archer/cat teams would do the actual conquering. On the eve of war my hoplite pillaging teams were staged at their jumping-off points when China's cultural borders expanded, forcing them to march back two squares to avoid taking a rep hit. By the time they were in position China had acquired Feudalism, and already had pikes showing! I launched the attack in 390BC anyway, counting on my cats to help equalize. By 330BC I had captured Chengdu, Shanghai and Tsingtao (securing dyes, horses and iron). Beijing was isolated and under siege. Turns out that there were a total of maybe 5-6 pikes in all of China's cities --once the lone pike in each city was eliminated, the rest of their defenses came apart like a used rickshaw in a demolition derby. In 310BC my Golden Age was triggered, and flush with our initial success I determined to make all of the Chinese lands mine. In 290BC India learned Feudalism, so I made a GPT deal to obtain this tech (and as 'Greenmail' to keep India from joining with the Chinese against us). In 250BC Beijing fell, and with it we acquired the Great Library. Turned research down to zero, and also began phasing in Marketplace builds alongside my military builds. Without horses or iron China was doomed, although it was a long campaign due to several culture flips. War weariness started to be a factor around 50AD, but I simply adjusted the luxury slider or hired clowns to keep the war going. Although I could have extracted lots of concessions for peace, I was worried about the prospect of losing cities to flips during the 20 turns of peace. In 90AD I made a MA with Egpyt because China had built a couple of cities in the far-west. By 260AD we had possession of all Chinese lands in our proximity, and in 360AD Egypt finished off the last two Chinese cities in the west.

Wars vs. Korea and France 260AD-470AD

The southern part of my continent had been colonized by the Koreans and the French (who had lost an earlier war against the Ottomans and respawned in the SE corner of the continent). My game plan called for a second ring of productive cities centered on Two Cows River, but one thing stood between the glorious Greek empire and these lands: the rightful owners. I told the Koreans about our version of the Monroe Doctrine, but they were unimpressed. So from 260AD to 370AD Greek knights instructed the recalcitrant Koreans on the finer points of this doctrine, capturing or razing all Korean cities in the vicinity. The war vs. France lasted from 370AD-470AD -- they put up more of a fight with just 4 cities than I had expected. My initial assault force consisted of 4 knights, 2 hops and 4 longbows. The knights were repulsed at the first French city they attacked (by just 2 super-patriotic spearmen). Then an a mini-SOD of 6 spears and 6 archers poured out the other cities to harass my forces. I developed an amusing (and unplanned) tactic of using the few knights left in the area to threaten a city, and then retreat as the SOD approached. After several turns of this I was able to reinforce the attackers, and pick off their cities just ahead of the wandering SOD. The SOD meandered around like a drunken sailor on shore leave, marching and counter-marching several times in response to each threat. Upon the capture of the last French city the SOD vanished without engaging a single enemy unit in combat.

470AD-650AD consolidation and preparation for showdown with India

By this time my populace had some serious war weariness going, and I took the opportunity for some R&R and infrastructure building. 1000 years of war had generated zero GLs, so I built our FP in Corinth (to the north of Athens), and did a Palace jump to Troy in the south (on the river by the two cows). In 600 AD Hyangson (in the far southwest) flipped back to Korea. Preparation for the coming war with India continued; they had just one source of iron, right near our border, so I was pretty confident I could overwhelm their cities once hostilities began.

War with India 650AD-870AD (entered the IA)

My war plan for India was based on three distinct fronts: a SOD (hops/longbows/cats) in the north, knights in the south, and another SOD with supporting knights in the center. The plan was to move first in the north and the far south, to draw forces away from the central sector where their most important cities were located. The central forces would attack Madras (with their only source of iron), and hook south to take the most important Indian cities. This plan worked quite well initially, but I did not count on the impact of our vast culture deficit! Madras alone flipped back 3 different times (it had Copurnicus in it and I wanted to keep it). Eventually I adapted the expedient of simply raising their cities and replacing them with my own, although I did not have enough new settlers coming in (even with two settler factories) to claim all of the newly cleared lands. We got a couple of GLs from this war, one of which rushed Adam Smith's and the other built an army of knights. The army won a couple of victories before losing to a lone, undefended conscript rifle (in open terrain) that was accompanying a settler. Both India and Egypt made it into the IA before I did, and India has rifles in some cities. No worries, we now have Military Tradition and most of my knights have been upgraded to cavalry. I reached the IA in 870AD; the remaining Indian lands will not hold out very long.

Current Situation

Although I had hoped to reach the domination limit by now, I am still (on the whole) pleased with the results of my war-mongering. I had not used the hoplite in an offensive capacity before, but based on this game I have a new appreciation for its offensive potential. India will fall soon, which will give me two productive city rings, control of about 50% of the landmass, and sole possession of cavalry. Securing a domination victory from here should be pretty straightforward.

In retrospect, I waited too long to settle the southern lands. By delaying I had to spend an additional 200 years of warfare to 'claim' lands that I had intended to settle from the early stages of the game. Relying on a GL to build my FP was another mistake (although I usually do get at least one during the ancient wars). My initial build plan did not anticipate keeping the RCP intact around my FP following the capitol jump, which was another error. All of those culture flips suggests that I maybe I could have built a few more libraries early on as well.

All in all, a challeging and most enjoyable game.

Link to my AA spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2045454&postcount=72) – which included me jumping my palace to the 2 cows in 1175BC, prior to building my FP.

I entered the Middle Ages in 825BC with 3 barb camps visible and as it turns out a fourth camp in the jungle between me, China and India. This starts what turns out to be a long period of being relentlessly pillaged by barbs. Luckily I had spent all my money prior to this, so I used this to my advantage and would escort settlers to a new location and then leave the new town undefended for the barbs to pillage.

In 690BC I found Knossos, securing the iron. In 550BC I found Argos, securing the horse. France declares a meaningless war on me in 510BC when I refuse to give up Monotheism, which I would have gladly traded but could not because of the barb pounding I was taking. By this time I had manage to reduce over 40 barbs down to less than 5, so I finally get back in the trading game.

In 510BC I trade MONO to CHN for FEUD, MONA, Wmap & 250gold. I learn Republic in 450BC and draw a 4-turn anarchy period. I secure 3 ivory sources in 410BC and also found “Jungle Jump City” (guess where?). I become a Republic in 350BC and secure the spice in 310BC.

I complete the Jungle Highway in 170BC. I now have 5 cities around Corinth at RCP4 and 2 more at RCP7, my neighbors were nice enough to build 2 cities at RCP7 for me. I'm hoping this will be a strong enough core to start amassing my military soon. I've switched a few build to horses and I'm starting to get some money in my treasury again.

I trade for Engineering in 70AD and in 170AD I trade for Chivalry (I’m still 10 turns away from learning it), Invention & Theology. Also in 170AD I turned research off. I'm behind CHN, KOR & IND tech-wise, and it will be more efficient to purchase the techs than to research them (or so I thought). I'm also gearing towards war, my FP will be done in 17 turns, which will give all my cities no worse than a rank 2 for corruption (I think - all FP cities are at RCP7 or less, and all palace cities are at RCP4 & RCP7 only).
My Foreign Palace completes in 380AD and in 410AD I hook up my iron and upgrade 11 horsemen to knights, I’m making 78gpt and can upgrade an additional horse per turn. After the mass upgrade I’m strong or average against everyone except Rome. I evaluate my neighbors and decide that China will be my first victim. I select them for several reasons. First they are the largest and the closest. Second, they have the Great Library (and completed Smith’s in 470AD). Third, they have two additional luxuries.

I issue DoW on China in 450AD and sign India up in a Military Alliance against them. I capture 2 cities the first turn of the war. I am WAY behind in techs - someone is already building Magellan's & China has Riders.

Here is a quick timeline for the rest of the MA:
470AD CHN complete Smiths in Beijing
470AD capture CHINAN (CHN)
490AD capture TATUNG (CHN)
500AD capture XINJIAN (CHN)
510AD capture SHANGHAI (wines 5th lux) and generate a Gleader - created a knight army
520AD finally suckered CHN into attacking a hoplite - I win & enter my GA
520AD generated 2nd Gleader and created my 2nd Knight Army
540AD captured TIENTSIN (CHN)
560AD captured BEIJING (CHN) with Smiths & Glib

In 570AD The Great Library bestows upon me 13 techs: Ppress, Educ, Gunpdr, Bank, Astron, Chem, Dem, Econ, Nav, Phy, Metal, ToG & Magn.

I enter the Industrial Age & receive Medicine. Now at tech parity with everyone except for Nationalism which both CHN & KOR have. I can also research Mil. Tradition in 8 turns and I currently have enough money to upgrade all knights to cavalry. My only question is how long will the WW stay in check. BTW, China has no saltpetter, so no riflemen. I also have until 720AD for my Golden Age.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/DJM_G33_02.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27

In 925 BC, the end of Ancient Times (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2022557&postcount=17), Greece was 18 “empire cycles” away from learning the advanced government, The Republic. Alexander was planning to assault the forces of China in the next few years, because the rich terrain, iron and luxuries of China would be needed if Greece was to grow strong in the coming centuries. In addition, he had received word that the Chinese would soon have a new type of defender, the Pikeman. This defender would spell utter doom for the archers and soon-to-be horsemen of the Greek Empire, so China had to be weakened before that was allowed to happen. Currently, China’s large empire was defended almost entirely by untrained spearmen.

The Middle Ages, 925 BC – 490 AD

War with China: 800 BC – 30 BC
In 800 BC, Alexander declared war on the Chinese, and shortly thereafter eight archers made the dye city of Shanghai part of the Greek empire. Alexander was not present for the attack, as he was busy with foreign dignitaries: Monotheism was traded to the Koreans for the secrets of Feudalism, and India and Rome were given Monotheism to join in the Chinese conflict.

Special Ops
A secret mission was given to an elite Hoplite division at the onset of the war. It was an apprehensive operation, not because of the dangers involved, but because the Hoplites were the pride of the Greek people, and Alexander knew that a military victory would change the very fabric of his empire. That celebration could not be allowed to happen until a new government was in place. Nevertheless, Alexander felt a crippling blow must be dealt to the military capability of the Chinese economy, and the Hoplites were the only units capable of accomplishing the objective. The secret mission was successful, and the iron mine of Tsingtao was pillaged before the Chinese military could respond. The fate of the entire Chinese Empire was thus sealed.

The Golden Age of the Greek Republic and the End of Chinese Autonomy
In 570 BC, the year China’s capitol city of Beijing was annexed by Greek horsemen and archers, Greek scientists discovered the Republic. Alexander immediately delivered an inspired speech to the Greek people touting the freedoms of this new government. Unfortunately, the Greeks (being a masochistic lot) preferred the whip to this newfangled concept of freedom, and they began a revolt that lasted for 100 years. At the end of this pathetic century, Alexander again called on the elite Hoplite division holed up in the mountains near Tsingtao. The unit had been joined by several divisions of horsemen, and all were ordered to attack the city. The Hoplites flawlessly destroyed the last defending archers, and the Greek people began a celebration that would last from 450BC to 30BC. Coincidentally, this year also marked the annexation of the last Chinese city, ending 770 years of conflict. Due in part to the celebration and in part to the abundance of furs, spices and dyes throughout the empire (and near the end, ivory), the people were very happy throughout the conflict. Alexander’s only disappointment during this time was in his lack of military leaders. Although he had many elite divisions, none seemed to contain a man with the heart to lead.

War-time Research
The Chinese conflict marked a period of scientific stagnation throughout the world. The only peaceful nations were the Ottoman and Egyptian Empires, and as a result, the only technologies discovered included Engineering, Chivalry, Theology and the Printing Press, the latter two researched by Greek scientists. Education was acquired by the Indians in 10 BC, but Alexander would not attempt to acquire it until Invention was learned 4 turns later. Although tech brokerage had earned the Greek empire around 73gpt and many lump-sum payments over the years, Alexander felt the rate of world research was inexcusable. He needed a new plan.

A New Plan for a Changing Era
Alexander was of two minds as the change-of-era approached. On one hand, he dreamed of the world electing him supreme leader—and sooner would be preferable to later. On the other, he wanted to conquer at least two-thirds of the known world. Given the war-crippled tech pace of the last few centuries, the former seemed less likely than ever, but his friends said, “all you ever do is dominate, why don’t you do something else for a change?” So he decided for the peaceful route. Well, mostly peaceful: he couldn’t really feel good about himself if he did not rule at least half the world. So his goal became a peaceful victory, but also to control all non-Korean lands east of Rome.

There were three major problems to overcome: increasing the speed of territory acquisition, speeding up world research, and speeding up Greek research. Unfortunately, all three problems were somewhat tied together. No nation could be conquered more quickly than India, because of their proximity to Greece and because of their weak military. However, if Greece was to maximize its research, then another nation would have to fund her military upgrades from horsemen to knights, and later horsemen to cavalry. There was only one nation in the world that could generate a tremendous amount of gold each year, and that too was India. For these reasons, Alexander eliminated Ghandi as a near-term military target, and, although he was unsure of the long-term merits of his decision, he set his sights upon the far-off Roman Empire.

The city of Rome was mesmerizing to Alexander: all land trade had to pass through that city: it was indeed the bottleneck of the entire world. It held the Pyramids, and given that it was by far the first to start Sun Tzu’s, it would likely soon hold that wonder as well. Those were the positives. The negatives were that the Romans had the world’s largest military, and that Rome itself, being built atop a steep hill and accessible to land from only two directions, was the most defensible city in the known world. It was a fascinating target, and Alexander could not resist.

The military portion of his plan would therefore involve marching peacefully through India’s land to sack eastern Roman cities and then Rome itself. Hopefully, the benefits of the Pyramids would offset the benefits that would have been gained by the early conquest of Indian lands, although he was unsure of that.

The second half of the plan, speeding Greek and World scientific research, was a bit more complex. Greek cities now stretched out in a long, narrow band to the north of the continent, and corruption was crippling the empire. The Forbidden palace had been built in 50 BC just north of Athens in Thermopylae, but that yielded only a marginal improvement. The palace needed to move to the Western lands, but Greek advisors warned that it would take millennia to build a new palace near the center of the new holdings.

Fortunately, one of Alexander’s trusted advisors presented him with an arcane tome entitled “Free Palace Jump”, written by the great philosopher DaveMcW. It stated that, given the correct conditions, all Alexander had to do was say “I do not want Athens anymore”, and his palace would instantly be transported through time and space to the location of his choosing. Fascinating stuff, really, although the city of Athens would be destroyed in the process. Near the end of the Chinese War, Alex proceeded to command citizens of his largest cities to relocate to the Chinese city of Chengdu, and in 10 AD, he ordered his financial advisor to give him a financial report:

Income from cities: 330
From other civs: 73
Income: 403
Expenses: 374
Net Gain: 29 gpt
Science at 80% (189 beakers)
Corruption: 102
Invention due in 2 turns.

Alex then said the magic word “Abandon,” and he and his palace took a magic journey to the city of Chengdu. New Athens was immediately founded on the ruins of the old capitol, and the financial advisor reported the following changes in the empire:

Income from cities: 337 (+7)
From other civs: 73 (same)
Income: 410 (+7)
Expenses: 353 (-21, I am not sure why this dropped so much)
Net Gain: 57 gpt (+28)
Science at 80% (227 beakers) (+38)
Corruption: 63 (-39)
Invention due in 2 turns.

The economic improvement was not dramatic, but Alex knew this would quickly change as the formerly Chinese cities grew in size.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BF_GOTM33_Palace_Jump.jpg

Foreign Relations, Infrastructure Development, Roman War Preparations: 10 AD – 260 AD
Although the war with China had added much territory to the Greek empire, it had taken many centuries to reach China’s more remote cities, and the infrastructure of Greece had suffered. Therefore, Alexander’s first order of business was to build infrastructure. Most Chinese cities were commended to produce workers and libraries. Native Greek cities were given orders according to need: some built marketplaces or aqueducts, others harbors or courthouses. The builds would take time though, and research was moving too slowly: around seven “empire cycles” on average, and Alexander’s goal was to reduce that to four. The problem was that he could not devote the entire commerce of the nation to research, he was forced to use some taxes in order to pay for the upkeep of the empire.

In 70 AD, thanks to the research of Invention, Alexander was able to reduce research time to six empire cycles, by bringing in about 60gpt from India and another 50 from other nations, as well as the knowledge of Education. However, in 130 AD, the Greek treasury was emptied due to the costs of advanced training for a force of 10 horsemen: the special units would now be known as knights. In 210 AD, this force was dispatched toward Rome. Alexander also traded the knowledge of Gunpowder for about 600g, 111gpt and the secrets of Astronomy and Banking. This additional income was not only used for military upgrades, but for rushing universities in select cities of the empire.

The Siege of Rome, End of the Middle Ages: 270 AD – 490 AD
In 270 AD, while Greece’s force of ten knights was still safe in Indian lands, Alexander declared war on Rome. The Ottoman and Arab empires joined the conflict in exchange for the knowledge of Astronomy. Alexander then waited two empire cycles before moving his troops onto Roman soil, in hopes that Caesar would send his legions to respond to the threat of Ottoman and Arab aggression. Three divisions of Roman pikemen were destroyed in the capture of Pompeii, along with one division of Greek knights. Immediately afterward, two pike divisions were destroyed and Pisae was captured, again at a cost of one knight. Alexander then traded the knowledge of Chemistry to the rest of the world for the knowledge of Music Theory, 300g and 115gpt. He was also thrilled to learn that the Roman city of Cumae completed Leonardo’s Workshop.

In 310 AD an additional force of 14 horsemen were trained up to knights and immediately sent to support the war, as many Legions and Medieval Infantry had begun to pour out of Rome. The initial assault on Rome had stalled, due to the sighting of a vast force of Roman Legions inside Rome: an Army of them in fact. Fortunately, after the Greek forces withdrew to the safety of captured cities, the Roman Army went to fight elsewhere, because it was never seen again.Greek scientists at this time finally reached Alexander’s goal of four empire cycles per discovery, due in part to many more gpt deals that Alexander made with other nations. In 380 AD, a Greek strategist revealed the secrets of Cavalry, and Leonardo’s workshop was taken a few years later. In 460 AD, Rome itself was finally under Greek rule. Alexander was not happy, however. Taking the wonders of Sun Tzu and the Pyramids had taken too long.

In 470 AD, Alexander was terribly surprised: one of his cities, Rome, revolted and refused to produce goods for the empire. Having ruled for nearly 4500 years, it was his first experience with this phenomenon, but it was easily handled. He ordered that the militant Romans be starved from existence.

Greek scientists finished researching Magnetism in 490 AD. They announced that they had also unlocked the secrets of Medicine, and entered a distinctly new age of development. Alexander was feeling magnanimous, so he gave the knowledge of Magnetism to the Koreans. He was displeased to learn that magnets must have healing properties, because this catapulted the Koreans to the mastery of Medicine as well. This put him in a very foul mood, so he went to his War Room. That always made him feel better. There he looked at a map of the current world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BF_GOTM33_Ind_Age.jpg

In a few short years, Rome would be eliminated from the mainland continent. India would not be far behind now that Greece could add six cavalry on every empire cycle to its army of 35, while still devoting most of the economy to infrastructure. But Alexander was not happy: he could feel his goal of being nominated as World Ruler slipping further and further into the future. The problem was research. Although Alex was confident that Greek scientists would present him with new technology nearly every 40 years, the research of the other nations of the world had come to a standstill. Unless the other nations could be persuaded to research, he estimated it would be 600 years--just into the next millennium--before he could convince them to elect him as World Leader.

In 570AD The Great Library bestows upon me 13 techs: Ppress, Educ, Gunpdr, Bank, Astron, Chem, Dem, Econ, Nav, Phy, Metal, ToG & Magn.

I enter the Industrial Age & receive Medicine. Now at tech parity with everyone except for Nationalism which both CHN & KOR have. I can also research Mil. Tradition in 8 turns and I currently have enough money to upgrade all knights to cavalry. My only question is how long will the WW stay in check. BTW, China has no saltpetter, so no riflemen. I also have until 720AD for my Golden Age.
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Very Nice! :) In my game Arabia built the Great Library; if this had happened in your game, how would you catch up in Technology?

Also, Riflemen do not require Saltpeter, so China may have some.

Very Nice! :) In my game Arabia built the Great Library; if this had happened in your game, how would you catch up in Technology?

Also, Riflemen do not require Saltpeter, so China may have some.

Bad news on the riflemen not needing saltpeter, I forgot to look up the requirements on them. But I am only 8 turns from cavalry & can start building some cannons as well. So far I have not seen any from China, so I hope they will only the conscripted ones if I meet them. I also need to get a quick push on India before they acquire that knowledge.

On the Great Library issue, other than "pointy-stick" research I'm not too sure how I would have bridged that gap. In my game China built the Glib in 550BC so I knew its location well before I was able to militarily take it. If someone past Rome had built it, I would have needed to continue researching and trying to trade/broker techs. I noticed that as soon as one AI had a tech almost every AI had it also. The last trade I made in 170AD, I bought Chiv for less cash because I was able to include a luxury in the deal, and then trade Chiv for two other techs. Once my FP was completed I had a highly efficient group of 18 cities, but I still would have been behind tech-wise, but how far I would not have known. Here is a look at my F1 screen on my first turn with the FP, notice corruption is only 32 for 18 cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/DJM_G33_03.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif [ptw] 1.27f

Ancient Age Report - 4000 BC to 950 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2042275&postcount=70)

I entered the MidAges in 950 BC. Here is my F3 screen with minimap at that time:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_bc950F3.JPG

One of the things I have to work on is building up to large of a military. I actually trade for Republic in 730 BC, buying it from Spain for 695 Gold and WM, but the unit cost is way too high to switch at that time. I Trade Egypt Republic for Monarchy straight up, and the two Government Techs, along with my Free Engineering, is enough to get Monotheism from Korea. I then Sell Mono to Spain and get most of my money back.

Barbs from the cross-over to MidAges were annoying, but didn't actually take money from me. I lost about 200 Gold later when I founded a Jungle town in the far east, and a nearby barb camp hit me twice before I could get enough defenders in place. That has been the extent of Barb activity in the MidAges.

A more pressing problem is what to do with China and India. Both are fairly large, and relative to me who doesn't have Iron or Horses yet, fairly powerful. I decide I'd rather that they were a problem to Rome than a problem to me; establish embassies with China and India in 730 BC, DoW against Rome, and use Republic to get them to DoW also.

The near term focus is to build FP up North, in Sparta, while establishing a town (Argos) in the South to be a future Palace site. In 950 BC I've got one town just on the Southern edge of the Jungle, and some Workers building Road South. Finally in 170 BC I'm nearly ready: here is my main screenshot from 170 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_bc170MainZ.JPG

Sparta has already finished FP, and will build a Worker next turn to drop its size to 5. Argos, working on a Granary, is size6 with several nearby towns. Athens finishes a Settler next turn, then choose 'Abandon City', and I get my 2nd core centered around Argos.

I chose Sparta for FP with the future intention to capture most of China. Even up to the IA, that hasn't happened yet. First, my empire is kind of large and difficult to defend, so many units would be tied up making sure some AI didn't take advantage of the war to capture some lightly defended cities. 2nd, I want to clear the two (soon to be three) Korean towns out of the South, so I need the units for that action first. 3rd, the Indians have gotten the Horses to the SW, so I'll need to declare on India to capture that town, and to clear them from the far South. With all these actions to be taken first, and with about 10 Chinese Swords on my SW border, I didn't see a DoW on China any time soon.

However, I can keep their Settlers out of my territory. I'm using the Korean Settler stack to keep that Chinese Settler from founding in my Jungle zone. China tried to Settle on the Coast just East of the Furs, but Eretria beat them to it so they retreated. Then they came back out later and are trying to Settle in the Jungle, but the Koreans will beat them there, and my other units will prevent them from penetrating any further South, so back they go!

In 170 BC, I also saw a Tech trading opportunity; I bought Chivalry from India for about 600 Gold, traded it to Egypt with 60 Gold for Theology, then traded Theology and Chivalry to Korea for Invention. I was even in Tech.

In 150 BC I jumped Palace to Argos; then started a Revolution to Republic (5 turns). In 50 BC I became Republic, did DoW on Korea and started Capturing/Destroying the 3 Korean Towns in the Southern Half of my empire. The 3rd town spits out an Archer just before I destroy it; the Archer attacks a Hoplite, and my GA is started.

110 AD I sign peace deal with Korea, getting Gunpowder for 60 Gold. No Saltpeter (and there's a Chinese source just out of my reach; I could have gotten that one! Argh!) I don't have Horses yet, and there are no good trades for it; nor are there any for Education which I've almost researched.

150 AD Learn Education, start on Chemistry. 170 AD, I've reassembled my forces from the Korean campaign, and healed them. DoW on India. 190 AD, Chittagong is captured, Workers connect it (came in with attackers), and I can start building Horsemen! (And do so)

290 AD, I've captured or destroyed the Indian cities I'm most interested in. Sign peace, getting last Indian city (Indus) on the far Southern tip of my area. I now control the whole area within my empire. Notice a drop in research time for Chemistry; buy it from Spain for 10 Gold, trade it to Egypt for Astronomy. Next: Physics.

350 GA is officially over :(

360 AD, Trade Chemistry to Korea for Music Theory.

370 AD, learn Physics. My first exclusive since Engineering!! Sell it to Arabia for 408 Gold, 90 gpt and WM, to Spain for Banking, 10 gpt and WM, to China for WM and Navigation. Next: TofG. China, Spain and Arabia have Democracy; these are the big 3 right now, the rest are scattered behind.

390 AD, Arabia drops a unit off in Chinese territory and starts a war between them! (Better him than me, I say!)

410 AD, India declares on China. Now India has been getting their clock cleaned by Rome for a long time, me for a little while. I guess Mahatma said its time to get it over. I've been trading 2 for 1 luxuries with China; at this time I let this deal lapse, and gift them Ivory. Establish Embassy with Rome (they're about to be my neighbor.)

430 AD, learn TofG, another exclusive!! Check out this F2 screen from 430 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_ad430SaltP.JPG

China has 2 Saltpeters, and one is available! Trade TofG for Dyes, Saltpeter, WM, 47 gpt and 6 Gold. To Arabia for 150 Gold, 24 gpt and WM. To Spain for 67 Gold, 34 gpt and WM. Gift Furs to Rome to keep him happy. Next: Magnetism.

470 AD, I note that Magnetism has dropped, and see that it is out there, along with Metallurgy. Trade Physics to Ottomans for WM and Economics. Trade Econ and Physics to Rome for Metallurgy. Trade Econ to China for Magnetism, WM and 40 Gold. We are in the Industrial Age!! Medicine is free Tech. Gift Korea up to the IA (the wars have not gone well for him), but he gets Medicine as well (darn!)

Here is the F3 screen from 470 AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_ad470F3.JPG

The main empire is established. I've got a lot of units but nearly half of them are Workers (mainly using Machetes right now; will probably be exchanging Machetes for shovels and rail ties soon, I hope). I've kept the Chinese tiger on a leash by first signing an alliance against Rome, then by feeding it luxuries and being a good trade partner. I'm unsure if I will try to put China in its place prior to learning Nationalism (assuming I learn or trade for MilTrad soon), or keep Mao as a learning partner. If the later, I will have to keep my defenses ready, and will probably have to keep China occupied with some warfare. (They're already at war with India (big deal), Korea (just hanging in there) and Arabia (could cause some damage).

It's been an interesting game so far :) with many decisions to make and challenges to overcome. This Jungle is a real mess; just one of those decisions to make.

DJMGator13: For your enjoyment, here is my F1 image from 170 BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_bc170F1.JPG

:lol: (Well, I am still in Despotism, 'enjoying' 34% corruption. Half my cities are far away from my capital and FP. I have 18 cities.)

Here is the F1 image from 30 BC, just after becoming Republic:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cvst_g33_bc30F1.JPG

I've captured one Korean city, and founded another so I'm up to 20 cities. I've got about 18% corruption compared to your 15% or so; I'll assume that your FP is a bit more central then mine: Sparta is North of the original Athens location, right up against the Chinese.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif[ptw] Link to Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2056152&postcount=82)
Tough game, this one. My quest for conquest continues. My main worry is now whether Arabia will give me their one-tile-island in a peace treaty considering I've broken a peace treaty or two.

MIDDLE AGES
Fake war with Arabia has paid off; they are among the last to learn Theology.