Always War Sid C3C 1.22 As the Sumerians [ Concurrent with HNDY05a, an AWS game as the Mayan Fighting Farmers (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95051). ]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/endless_sumerians.jpg
Sumerian Special Forces Amphibious Assault Team Member.

Another chapter in a series of Always War tiny continent maps by the Grumpy Old Men of War Always Sid. War Always :confused: Did you mean Always War? Err, no, ugh, I meant to do it that way. :mischief: GOMOWAS
HNDY04-AWD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90672)|HNDY03-AWDG (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87859)|HNDY02-AWE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=85204)


C3C 1.22 Patch
Level: Sid
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Sumeria
Continents: 70% Water
Size: Tiny
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Barbarians: Sedentary (We can use the cash)
Rivals: 3 Randomly Selected
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled. We could lose to a UN vote [if we get that far ;) ] We’ll take a win any way we can get it, but conquest or domination are preferred.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Patch: 1.22 C3C

Roster
Handy [Out until 8-1-04]
T_McC
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif
Lucky candle to light the way.


Always War Boilerplate as we play it
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies .

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Roster
Handy
T_McC <- UP
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom [Out until ??]

The turn log to 2550bc is in the planning thread. If the zipped save here does not work, grab Greebley's save in the planning thread.

OK, Got it!

I'll take this one and Slinger can pick up HNDY05a.

We'll run this way:

T_McC
Barbslinger
Yom
Handy [skip until 8/1, at least]
Greebley [skip until 8/7]

HNDY05b - Swingin' Sumerians

2550 BC (0)
We are in a GA, researching Masonry at break-even. We have 2 cities. No imminent danger from the Russian Archers. I can see 4 Russian cities, so I'm guessing that there isn't much south of Moscow. Would be nice to sneak another city of our own in here.

We'll see if an Elite Enkidu can pillage in peace.

IT - Elite Enkidu gets attacked, wins with 3 HP. Six Russian Spears converge on St. Petes. I don't think that is a winnable battle.

2510 BC (1)
We do pillage a tile, but will have to retreat next turn if we're not killed. That was more a defiant gesture than any great strategic thought.

Ur completes Archer, goes to worker. Move a couple of EW's into position to bait attacks from the Russian Archers.

IT - Lose pillaging EW, but win three other battles. Nets us a new Elite EW.

2470 BC (2)
Ur completes worker, goes to EW. Healing EW in the East starts to explore.

IT - Mayans complete Pyramids.

2430 BC (3)
Ur: EW --> Settler.

Have to slow research on Masonry.

2390 BC (4)
Swap Ur to Archer, the settler can wait. The Russian Spears are chasing our Elite EW, who is now fortified on a Hill in neutral territory. We can move 3 Archers + 2 EW's to cover next to St. Pete next turn.

IT - Zulu complete Oracle

2350 BC (5)
Move stack next to St. Pete. Ur continues with another Archer. We need one for defensive bombard.

IT - Russian Archers move to the single combination of squares that would prevent Ur from growing this turn. :rolleyes:

2310 BC (6)
Assault on St. Pete: We lose with 2 Archers, but win with 2 Enkidu and capture the city. We now have as many cities visible as the Russians.

Feeling lucky, I attack a Russian Archer with the Elite Enkidu. Win but no leader.

2270 BC (7)
Win on IT vs. Russian Archer. St. Pete may be in trouble on the IT. We have two Enkidu defending with a single Archer cover. Three Russian Archers will attack.

IT - We win two battles and have another Elite Enkidu.

2230 BC (8)
Masonry comes in and I pick Iron Working. We're on a roll, lets get swords and really step on Cathy!

The GA ends so we may have some consolidation to do.

2190 BC (9)
GA ends, and we'll be fighting with Archers for a while still. :(

2150 BC (10)
The GA ending means no settler these turns, but next leader gets to plant another city and make us Army-eligible. Then he has to get us an MGL. :lol:

Another Russian Archer suicides against St. Petersburg.

Picture in next post. Kill ratio was only 12-3, but the Russians are starting to get spread out. I really want to get a pillager down in sight of Moscow, maybe we can get Cathy to keep whipping her capital and stop her from building many settlers.

Picture of our lands. Cathy has one city that isn't visible, but she still only has as many cities as she started with.

South of St. Pete is a lake, so don't be surprised to see Russian troops coming from that way.

The blue dot is where I was thinking about placing the next city. The intent is to be a death-trap for Russian Archers, forcing them to attack across a river onto a Hill against a city that should be able to erect Walls fairly quickly. The red dots would then be rear-line locations that wouldn't have to be defended very heavily. We need a lux, and we need more Workers.

The two units in blue circles can converge on blue dot for the founding. The settler can also take an Archer and an Enkidu from the Ur area with it. Three EW's and an Archer should get that city founded safely.

It would really be nice to be able to plant EW's on the Hill and Mountain N of Moscow. A few more victories and we may have a couple of spare Elites to put there.

Next leader can consider whipping the Walls when St. Pete grows in 3. 50/50 you kill the Russian citizen.

Might be hard to pop a leader on defense, but our Archers seem to be dieing faster than they can promote. Keep burning Russian units, and maybe try to get close enough to cities so the AI keeps whipping them down to size 1 or 2 and can't build settlers.

In case it is not apparent:

Slinger is up!

OK! Let's give this one a shot. I don't see Moscow mentioned in your summary but I'm guessing SW. Sure would love to get rid of Cathy once and for all.

Moscow is S of Novograd, on the eastern shore of that lake. Look at Greebley's log in the previous thread, you can see it there.

Best guess for where the 4th Russian city is: Right around the eastern ruins.

Take 1 away they build 2!

HNDY05b – 2550bc

Preturn – 3 archers, 8 enkidus rates us average vs. Russia. That’s a good sign. St. Petes group is thinking of moving on Novrogod in a few turns.
IT – Rax> Archer in Sumer. We kill an archer and go elite in St. Petes
[1] 2110 – Hold for this turn hoping they attack. Workers move to mine between Sumer and Ur.
[2] 2070 – Another archer dies and we pop a settler. Kill the last archer there and start moving with 3 Enki’s and 2 archers. A Russian scout is in the north.
[3] 2030 – Zulu finish colossus. Kill the scout but need a taxman in Sumer now. Russians have founded 2 new cities!
[4] 1990 – Rush the walls. Settler is in place on the hill. Ur-Enki>Archer. St. Pete’s gets a taxman after pop rush. And it killed our pop. Uhg! Adjust sliders because I would rather grow but it kills our research.
[5] 1950 – St. Petes-Walls>Rax. 2 archers heading for St. Pete’s.Those towns are pop 2 already! Attack next turn.
[6] 1910 - We destroy Novrogod at the cost of an archer and Enki. Collect 2 slaves. Hope the walls hold at St. Petes
[7] 1870 – Fortify in forest with assault crew to heal and hopefully deflect some of the attack towards St. P.
[8] 1830 –They are pop 3 now.
[9] 1790 – Win twice at St. P. No Promo. Sumer-Archer>Enki. Pulling back healed troops. 3 Enkis in St. P’s now.
[10] 1750 – Retreating a bit to collect some archers for next attack.

St. Petes will be unhappy until it grows due to the walls pop rush. They have some archers moving in so a round of defense is probably on tap. I’m wondering if the rax builds are good, they take so long and we have to get on the attack. Those shields may be better for 2 archers.

Disagree. We should be building Rax since they last the whole game. By the time you build 3-4 vet troops (even 20-shield units) I have to figure the Rax pays for itself.

If we're still just 1 city behind the Russians we're doing terrific. Establishing a defensive front and planting a couple of more cities behind us may be the way to go for now, although we're having a lot of success with burning Cathy's cities. If she can't keep her 1st ring cities alive, we should be able to hang with her in production/research until we can get some better units out in the field.

From what I saw she'll be putting out cities faster than we can burn them. And they grow fast too. Well, let's keep chugging along.

Ok, Yom is up in this one.

Handy isn't back until Sunday at least, so we can afford a leisurely pace for a short while.

I'll have a picture and a ramble later.

Well, the first problem is that Lagash is founded on the wrong spot. It was supposed to go on the tile 1S, to be on the river to get an additional defensive bonus and an extra food since we're Agricultural.

Cathy has 5 cities, we have 4. St. Pete should be more useful soon. I think it's also living down a whip Cathy gave it. That has to expire soon.

We're fine with unit support, but can always use more workers. Can we afford a n 8-10 turn period where Ur builds a Granary? I think it can easily do the 7-5 4-turn settler trick, but I'm afraid we don't have enough production to allow it that break.

Not sure where to place the next settler. Picture has a few suggestions. I'm not sure that we are strong enough to found on that Hill S. of St. Pete, but it sure would get Cathy's attention. I also think we need to secure a lux before reaching out into our 2nd ring to plant targets.

Maybe after Iron Working we head for Math?

Just get us a leader and all will be well in the world.

So ... uhhh ... anyone seen Yom?

I can play later this evening if Yom has not yet turned up. Too many chores to catch up on to play now. :(

I need a break after SGOTM3, but I'll play it tonight for sure. If Yom gets here first that's fine, I play after him. Otherwise I'll pick it up this evening (Sunday night).

I got it (10 char.).

I got it (10 char.).

Good Luck. I'll pick it up next. :goodjob:

Turn 0 - A quick overview of our lands shows that we are in good shape defensively. We are also only down the Wheel, IW, and CB.

IBT - another warrior approaches St. Petersburg.
Ur:Settler->Archer
Chichen Itza completes the Temple of Artemis.

Turn 1 - I send the settler to the relatively safe dye spot for now.

IBT - Our elite enkidu fights off an archer. A settler pair comes out of the fog West of St. Petersburg as well as another archer southeast of St. Pete's

Turn 2 - A vet enkidu fights an archer on offense and becomes elite, freeing up our 2 archers to go take care of the settler pair.

IBT - Damn, the settler pair moved onto the hill I didn't want them to go to. They'll be sure to settle and get a defensive bonus.
Sumer:Enkidu->Archer

Turn 3 - The idea of a leader is too tempting for me and I use our elite enkidus on offense to attack archers, but we get no leader. That's the last offensive attack I'll make with them for some time.

IBT - Sure enough the pair settles.
Ur:Archer->Enkidu.

Turn 4 - Kish founded by the Dyes.

IBT - An archer shows up south of our attack party.

Turn 5 - I'm leaving Smolensk alone because of its hill, but I'm going to head for the Russian Heartland. Our elite enkidu defeats a regular archer, but no leader. Perhaps I'm pressing my luck too much, but I really want a pillaging enkidu army.

IBT - Ur:Enkidu->Settler (to settle the hill S. of St. Pete's).

Turn 6 - I turn on emphasize production.

IBT - 2 Archers show up south of our raiding party.

Turn 7 - WTF? Despite emphasize production being on, the stupid governor picks a grassland tile over a plain one!
Our veteran archer loses to another veteran archer! Our other archer wins, -1hp and becoming elite in the process. I take a gamble and attack the 1/3 archer with an 3/5 enkidu and win, -2 hp, getting us the leader I was waiting for!

IBT - Unfortunately, there was more than just a spearman in Yaroslavl' and the Elite enkidu is slayed by a regular archer.

Turn 8 - An army is created in St. Pete's. Our elite archer flawlessly slays an archer but no leader. With the objective of getting an army now accomplished, the now elite archer/enkidu pair will head back to help defend the town that will be built S. of St. petersburg. I load the army with 2 vet enkidu warriors for now, to allow us to get more leaders from our 3 remaining elite enkidus.
Our veteran archer flawlessly kills another archer.

IBT - IW comes in, set research to alphabet (in 12). We may want to build the library
Sumer:Archer->Enkidu

Turn 9 - I move some archers toward the front to help in the defense of our new city. St. Pete's oppression wore off last turn, but it needs 2 units in the city to keep its one citizen happy, so it's on scientist duty for now.

IBT - Ur:Settler->Granary
Copan completes The Hanging Gardens...we really need TGL if we can get it.

Turn 10 - We're low on money, so I swap the scientist in St. Pete's to a taxman. Wow. Looks like russia wants to start expanding badly as I find an archer defending 2 settlers a bit SE of the hill.

Our best bet for TGL would probably be either Sumer or Lagash. Sumer is better equiped for it atm, but we get the advantage of not losing troop production if we build it at Lagash. I didn't notice it until now, but russia just founded a city way out east by Yakutsk, so they might have boats. The only Iron in our site, is just outside of Moscow, so we need to get that army to the front Asap and pillage Russia to the stone-age (if they aren't there already. Also, we can use the army to get 4 slaves if that russian archer doesn't move too far away from the army. Either way, I would chase it down to keep russia producing settlers (slaves) for us and not troops. Alphabet is due in 9 at 0 gpt.

Yom! You got the lucky break we were all hoping for. I think we need to load that army with another vet Enkidu when the opportunity presents itself.

Got it.

May not play tonight, we have things to discuss.

I'm not sure we should be trying to build the Great Library. It certainly helps, but it's going to be exceedingly difficult to get any of our cities (besides Ur) up to a reasonably competitive level of production. The terrain we need for a Wonder city is BG and lots of it. Until a border expansion, Lagash has 1 tile that produces food and even 1 shield without improvement. While we have Ur building a Granary and Settlers, we can't afford to take Sumer off of military.

It looks like a very defensive 10 turns ahead. We're down to 5 Archers, but we need to let Ur finish the Granary and then likely pop a settler. We'll be well under our unit support after the next city gets planted. I'm assuming we head for the Hill south of St. Petersburg. If this gets timed right, our 4 (hopefully) new Russian slaves can chop a forest to speed the Walls at the new city and provide a juicy target for Cathy.

I hope to get the Enkidu Army out and pillaging by the end of my 10. We've already accomplished one thing: Cathy has no culture besides her Palace. If we can just show the Army a few places she might just whip herself into oblivion.

I'll wait to hear others' opinions before I play. I intend to let the Walls complete at Lagash, and then probably go for Barracks (or maybe a worker). I do not believe the Great Library is a good gamble for us to take.

The Mayans already have the Hanging Gardens, ToA and Pyramids. The Zulu have The Colossus and The Oracle. All that remains in the AA are the Great Wall, the Lighthouse, MoM, and the Great Library. I expect the middle two to fall very soon. The Russians have an exclusive on the SoZ, but we're not going to let their Ivory stay hooked up. Ideally they would start the Wonder in Moscow 1 turn before we cut their supply. Let them waste the shields and give it to us for free when we eliminate them.

I have to agree with nixing the GL gambit. Even if we were playing regular Sid without the warring it is tough to pull off unless you start with alphabet. What we need is to eliminate Cathy and hopefully have some time to build some more towns and infrastructure before the AI's start all the beach landings.

I can't peek at the save @ work, but the GLib does sound like a pipe dream. One day maybe we'll try AWS with a civ that gets alphabet to start.

Let them waste the shields and give it to us for free when we eliminate them.

If we let Russia hang around will they build the SoZ for us? Would we have to let them keep 2 cities, Moscow for SoZ & 1 other city to build archers & slaves. Never tried this, but if it worked it would be pretty sweet.

I'll pick it up after you since, ugh, you kinda jumped in front of me. :lol:

I'll pick it up after you since, ugh, you kinda jumped in front of me.

Once again we get bit on the ass by having not just two SG's with the same cast of characters, but an additional SG with a subset of the usual suspects. I thought you had already played since you came back. Must have been either of the other games. :rolleyes: :lol:

Handy's up!

I fugured that's what happened. Yom, you & I are in 3 Sg's with three different orders. :crazyeye:

Go ahead if you are free. :) I can't pick it up until around 8pm central tonight.

:( You guys are right, there's no way we can get TGL. It's going to be tough to catch up in tech. At least in this game we have iron for some strong offense.

I got it and will post tonight. :D

Sulking Sumerians :(

Pre Turn
Down Alpha, Wheel, CB
1 worker in Moscow afraid to show their face.

IBT
Bummer, the 2 settlers head back towards Moscow.

Turn 1 1475
Our settler is unescorted, so an archer & EW head back for escort duty.
Army is going to pillage Moscow. I wont be able to catch those 2 settlers before they get back to Moscow.
Kish is on flat lands with a lone regular EW as a garrison, so the worker gets switched to walls. Kish is 3 tiles from Ur in stead of the usual 2 tiles. :confused:
Sumer has to hire a tax man.

IBT
Sumer – EW - worker
Lots of Ai units.
I can see 5 archers + 2 spears. Cathy is now placing settlers under the spears. :(

Turn 2 1450
St. Pete now has 2 content citizens, so I fire the scientist there.
Russia & us are both racing to the hill S of St Pete. I’ll send an EW to save us a spot.
Elite archer kills archer.
EW built in Sumer goes to Ur to act as MP.
Avoid temptation to attack the spear with the 2 EW army to try for slaves. Losing the army would be way bad for us. We need to pillage the iron.

IBT
Russia founds SW of the incense, so we will get our hill.
Archers appear to be moving toward Kish.

Turn 3 1425
Move onto the iron, pillage next turn.
Lagash is in a crappy spot. Next to mountains the AI can attack from and 1 tile away, and it's not on the river. :(

IBT
Spot the first Russian sword leaving Moscow. We’ll pillage the iron this turn.

Turn 4 1400
Pillage Iron

IBT
Lagash – walls – barracks
Sumer – worker – EW

Turn 5 1375
I selected 2spt and 1 fpt in Lagash to grow & get barracks in 20.
Off Russian archer.
Found Umma -> walls on the hill S of St. Pete
Begin pillaging of Russia.
Begin the long road to the Dyes.
There is a stack of archers in the fog heading somewhere - Kish maybe?

IBT
Umma is in trouble. The Russian sword killed our Eilte spear fortified on a hill, and there is only an archer there now. No way to quickly reinforce it.

Turn 6 1350
Move EW towards Umma just in case it holds.

IBT
Good news – the wounded Russian sword attacked the archer in Umma & lost. :)
Bad news – three archers will attack the lone archer in Umma next turn. :( Umma is in bad shape.
Ur – granary – EW ( No reason to build a settler yet since we have no escorts).
Zulu build Lighthouse.
Russia is up to 8 cities.

Turn 7 1325
Pillage
Ur has to temporarily hire a tax man since it is size 6. Crap, it’s pulling 9 spt, 1 short of 1 turn EW’s. Bumping slider to get an EW in 1 turn at a cost of 3 gold. Seems like a deal.

IBT
Umma is razed by the Russians. :( :( :(
Sumer – EW – EW
Ur – EW - settler

Turn 8 1300
Lower lux back to 20 & hire specialist in Ur.
Pillage
This is a pretty big landmass.

IBT
Alpha – math
Elite spear @ St. Pete loses to sword.

Turn 9 1275
Elite archer kills wounded sword.
St. Pete grows and has to hire a specialist
Math in 17 +1gpt
The archer stack that razed Umma has disappeared into the fog. I’ll bet they are going to the luxury @ Kish.

IBT
The archers appear near St. Pete.

Turn 10 1250
Russia is pretty well pillaged, so let’s head back to check on the iron.
Russia now has 9 cities.
Three archers can attack St. Pete next turn. It appears St. pete is the target now. That will change when we hook up the luxury in Kish.

Notes:
These turns didn’t go too well, and Russia is getting really strong with a bunch of archers roaming around. I think they could have taken out Umma even if it had 2 EW’s instead of an EW & Archer.
St. Pete is a pit we are going to dump a lot of shields down. It’s on grass, so no hill bonus, and the AI can attack from 7 different tiles and get a defensive bonus.
Better site would have been 1 tile due N? We would have a river on 3 sides, and could reinforce from either Ur or Lagash.
We need a city between Ur & Kish so we can chain units. The plains 1 NW of the fortified EW would work.
The pillaging should help some. Not much hope to go on offense until we get some cat support. Getting that ivory is going to take a huge stack of cats & archers.

The plan
We should explore up north with an EW on the off chance there is iron up there. Cats & swords might turn this around if we keep Russia pillaged. Until then, let's make sure we are well fortified. We'll soo be seeing Russia attacking with archer 6-packs.

I played last, and T_McC before me. Yom's up in SGOTM3 and HNDY05a, so I guess Slinger is up

I'm out Friday & Saturday, so if you guys want to adjust the lay order it's okay by me.

I guess my turns above were so crappy no one wants to comment on them. :shakehead

First off, I'm really sorry about the Lagash location screwup. I don't know what I was thinking. I'll try to play tonight with my fingers crossed. SID is one tough cookie.

The pillaging should alot, but the amount of archers Sid turns out is problematic. We need to hunker down and get some leaders on defense while we settle to the north. I think we may need 2 pillaging armies, then a 3rd to act as cover for cats & bows and then we can slowly take Cathy out. We can't let her hook that Iron up even for a turn after she gets to the MA or she will kick out a bunch of Pikes (and later knights).

On the bright side, this is a huge piece of land we are on.

Handy-Sid-Sumerians 1250AD
Well, thank the stars we haven’t met anyone else. The dyes will help and should happen on my turns and the settler can go for the incense. The only MM I see is in Kish to a forest to delay growth and get the walls faster. It would riot with another pop and until we get dyes I don’t need that. I also move an Enki from Lagash towards St. Petes for backup. We are going to get slammed there soon.
IT – Lose an Enki in St. Petes and defend with one, no leader.
[1] 1225 – Enki makes it to St. Petes and the new build from Sumer rotates to Ur with the Ur Enki heading to St. Petes too. Have to pause to see which way the army was pillaging. I don’t want to back track. I don’t see it in the log but I would assume coming from Moscow heading north. However, the Russian Iron has to stay gone, along with the capital disconnected, I go south. Road is finished on hill and will beging roading dyes next turn. 10g +1gpt. Here comes more St. Pete attacking. Fingers crossed.
IT – Our elite wins 3 straight losing 1 hp!. Settler in Ur goes to Enki. Walls in Kish go to Rax.
[2] 1200 – I forego the incense build for a transit town between Ur and Kish. It may get hot there soon. Roading begins on dyes with 1 wasted worker. My bad. Enki in Ur heads to Lagash.
IT – With Ur only having one archer the Archer crew at St. Petes sees a juicier target. They move that a way but an Enki will pop before they get there.
[3] 1175 - One of two archers dies to our archer. Bad-time is founded and set to walls. We look semi-secure with only 2 threats. MM between Ur and Sumer yields both growth and an Enki this IT.
IT – Dyes complete. Ur-Enki>Settler. St. Petes-Rax>Enki, Sumer-Enki>Archer. The Russians continue inland.
[4] 1150 - Kish Enki noves to hill to get archer on the flats in 2. Army will begin some pillaging next turn. He should remain a thorn I think. Money is getting tight at 9g and –2gpt. I could take a taxman in Ur but I get growth in 2. Lux is dropped and a scientist in Sumer comes aboard to get +4gpt. This also slows the archer build be 1 turn. Workers head to road to incense.
IT – We are flawless at Lagash, no promo.
[5] 1125 – I pillage once and move a E Enki back towards Lagash. Just noticed that is a sword hovering over Lagash. Workers pause on the way north to irrigate.
IT – 4hp enki loses 1hp to sword. Been lucky. That candle must be lit.
[6] 1100 – Workers head north. Pillage a mine and the Russian ivory iron was not hooked up, must have been a prior build order) and Enki gets into Lagash. Kill an archer on the St. Pete Mountain, no leader. 77% shot. Happy sauce goes up with Ur growth. 17g at –2gpt. Settler in 2 with growth per MM. With 6 archers bearing down on Lagash I send another Enki from St.Petes to Lagash. 2 archers in range this IT.
IT – The archers change gears and head back to St. Petes. Zulu complete the Gwall and a Zulu galley pops up on our west coast.
[7] 1075 –Zulu are up Wheel, CB, writing and math + who knows what else. No deals and I declare. It may be over quickly now. I move the E Enki back towards St. Petes. I have 2 Enkis hovering. Pillage the balance of Vladivostok head back towards Moscow. BTW, we are at war with Shaka. No trades unless I bust a gpt deal.
IT – Archers head back to Lagash. Zulu galley heads off to tell th boss about our indescretion. Ur completes a settler and starts an Enki.
[8] 1050 – E Enki checks back into Lagash hotel. Settler heads towards incense hill. Lux drops and we’re back at +2gpt.
IT – Get 2 kills at Lagash, no leader. Sumer-Archer>Archer. St. Petes-Enki>Enki.
[9] 1025 – Road completes to hook up incense once settler arrives. Sumer swaps to Enki. 4 enkis and an archer braced for 7 archers in Lagash. Put another Enki across the St. Pete river for possible reinforcement after IT.
IT – That was pretty rough. We lose the E Enki and only one promo on the last kill. Ur-Enki>Settler.
[10] 1000 – Use army to kill one archer losing 2 hp. He is heading back towards St. Petes to load another Enki. Settler sees some nice wheat in the north. Will found next turn. Rush the rax in Lagash for 14 shields. Should have noticed it earlier.

It is going to be reall tough when the Impi’s show up. I’m almost thinking we should have escalated the series by going to pangea after the emporer win. To tell the truth I am almost burned out on AW and Sid Meier level is not making it any easier. I have never even attempted Sid except to see how fast I could be crushed while drinking and not really paying attention. This is hard work that I don’t see working. However, having said that I reminisce back to the Nehru naysaying and will slog forward. Hey maybe I am just grumpy.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-1000bc.jpg

i am just home. will be looking at games tomorrow.

Looks like we are alive. Congrats :)

Who's up? I think I am, but if Greebley would like to take a turn he should feel free. I won't be able to play the game until tonight so I'll check back before then to see if Greebley has claimed it.

I have two games I am up in, so go ahead and play first TMcC.

I got it.

I'm too tired to do this justice tonight, so I'll play tomorrow.

We are not at war with the Zulu in the save. Hopefully TMcC notices this and fixes immediately.

Let's see, where are we in this game?

Recent order of turns posted
Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC - has it
Greebley - back :D & up after T

HNDY05b - Sumerian Equestrians

1000 BC (0)
Bump up research to get Math 1 turn sooner. I'm going to move the settler on top of the Incense Hill to found, since neither side is fresh water.

Declare war on Shaka.

I'll allow Ur to continue with the Settler. We'll need an FP soon.

975 BC (1)
Russians just wander around. Army doubles back to acquire 3rd member.

950 BC (2)
Win one on IT vs. Russian Archer.

Agade founded, our 2nd lux is hooked up.

Enkidu Army gets third member. Now I just need 4 Archers.

925 BC (3)
Win another on IT. Maybe three attacks next time.

Math in, start on Wheel in 5.

900 BC (4)
Win two on IT, we have another Elite Enkidu.

Ur builds settler, but I have no idea where to put it. I think I'll save it as a replacement for a Russian town.

875 BC (5)
The Russians sure seem interested in Lagash.

850 BC (6)
Win on offense with Elite Archer, but no leader. Cover with Enkidu. Win on IT at Lagash.

Army kills an Archer that was wandering up.

825 BC (7)
Win one on IT.

Zulu drop off two Archers and an Impi.

800 BC (8)
Win vs. all three Zulu units, promoting Enkidu to Elite. But we have a problem. We are having to actively defend almost all of our cities, as here goes another Impi next to the city where I removed a unit to cover the northern landing.

We do have a Catapult in the city where the Impi could attack.

We have Horses by Ur. Research target set for HBR.

775 BC (9)
The Great Equalizer: Catapults. Score two cat hits on the Impi that was running for a soft target.

Enkidu Army kills another Archer. A mini-SOD is assembled in St. Petes, so homeland defense is a little barren at this point.

750 BC (10)
Impi retreats, Zulu land Archer. Bong Archer with two cat shots and kill with Elite Enkidu. No leader. Also win two battles against Russian Archers, with Elite Enkdiu, but no leader there either.

SOD(?) assembled under Army S of St. Petes. You have 5 Archers with which to burn Krasnoyarsk and a settler to use to build on the fresh water hill.

Another 10 AWS turns where we didn't lose a unit, but we're probably losing ground.

If we get a leader, I vote for an FP in Lagash. We'll want to expand that way, rather than into the pointy N.

Next leader also has to figure out what to do with Ur. It grew this past turn and I haven't adjusted the sliders. We'll have Horses hooked up next turn.

Recent order of turns posted
Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley - UP

Horses will help. If we can get a gang of horses and cats with EW cover perhaps we can make a move on the ivory & Iron.

I saw Greek muskets in HNDY05a tonight @ 170bc, so we are going to need lots of cats to hang around in these games.

Sorry for the late I got it, but I arrived back right into feast mode.

So I got it and hope to play tomorrow night. I may need the next day to finish.

I apologize for the delay on this game, but I got overloaded with 6 games when I came back, this being the 6th. I still plan to play this tonight. Two of my games ended, so things will become better now (less "long endgame turns").

No Problem. I'm glad you are back. :D

I decided to play well tonight rather than poorly last night (I was too tired to play well, so went to bed early instead).

Preturn: One trick we can do (that is hard to set up but really helps). Put Enkidu in mountains near towns. It suppresses the ability of workers to improve the terrain. Consider it "pre-pillaging". I wish we could have done more of this to keep the Russians down. I don't think you can win by defending like in most AW games.

690 BC: The "SOD" destroys the nearby russian town

670 BC: Finish HBR and start Ceremonial Burial.

650 BC: Leader Fishing Works!

630 BC: I end up making an Archer Army (there are archers there now).

550 BC(IBT): Our archer army is attacked when injured and is down to 2 hp.

Notes:
It is frightening how fast SID AI's grow. This game is starting to look lost.

Russians have Horsemen.

I would use the archer army to destroy Russian towns. I feel we MUST destroy them to win (Hopefully it will reach the town and heal). We may need to defend the archer army with the other Enkidu Army.

Sorry this took so long...

Here is a picture of our empire.

Also adjust science rate. Somehow I missed doing this.

From what I see on this map: We can keep Cathy's cities instead of burning them, if we have the chance. She appears to have no culture besides her Palace.

Any chance we can pop out a settler and found a defensible city between St. Pete and our Iron city?

At first blush I don't think we're doing too badly here. If we can get the Iron connected we may be able to outclass the Russians enough on the battlefield to make up for the short numbers. Or are we also in a mad scramble to beat the Zulus out of our core?

Well Done.

EW cover for the archer army sounds like a plan.

Nice tip about parking spears on the mountains near AI cities to inhibit growth. Also would have kept settlers from getting out I guess. We'll try that in our tiny pangaea sid attempt. :lol:

I agree on building a city between the iron city and our core. Getting iron to our core will be a challenge I think. We need more workers too (I didn't build as many - I felt I needed more defense).

We need a road on the iron square itself and have 3 workers, but they had to move so I would hold off until our Archer army heals I would also try to send two or more Enkidu out to defend the city.

Its really scary how fast the AI grows at SID.

[Edit:
Not sure on the Zulu. They have been landing a pair of units every 3-4 turns, but recently, I have seen a LOT more boats than before. If this means we will have an increase in landings it could get rough. Enkidu at only 10 shields (and defending) works pretty well if you need to handle things quickly - its downside is that you can be pillaged.

Its really scary how fast the AI grows at SID.


Amen.


Yom - UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

I got it, but it may take me a while. Tropical Storm Charley is coming my way and may knock out the power.

Few notes from peeking at the save:

Lots of city MM to do.

Maybe push a few more Cats, especially in cities that would take 15 turns to build a Horse. I agree that we need to be on the offensive, but artillery multiplies kill ratios which is the most important thing. Also check cities to verify you want as many MP as we have. We only need 2 for Happiness. Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly which of our cities I would describe as being off the front lines. :(

We are at our Army limit. Next leader can go towards Heroic Epic, or an FP. My nomination for an FP is in Lagash.

I might consider Walls in Agade before the Curragh. The Zulu were landing there on my turns. Also note the weedy spot in which I built Agade, making it more critical the city be able to defend itself.

I'd assume the regular Enkidu being built in Erech is to cover the workers on the Iron mountain, and that veteran Enkidus can come out of the core.

I would seriously consider a Settler out of Ur next. We are already running a clown in our capital, so the loss of pop there isn't that big a deal. I nominate the ruins/Hill SW of the Horses on the way to the Iron.

We actually can get a reasonable time on Currency after the MM and slider adjustment. I see ~20 turns.

I got it, but it may take me a while. Tropical Storm Charley is coming my way and may knock out the power.

Yom - Do you need a skip in this one too? I saw you needed one in HNDY05a - Mayans

I can play this tonight, I just didn't want to hold up HNDY05a any more than I already had.

I can play this tonight, I just didn't want to hold up HNDY05a any more than I already had.

Okay :goodjob:

I think you are up in SGOTM3 also.

Turn 0 - Cover Archer army with Enkidu army. Raise science to 60%

IBT - Tons of Zulu boats move around, The russians advance on Lagash. The archer/spearman pair retreat into the city.

Turn 1 - I have to retreat the offensive against Smolensk. The catapult will be lost if I don't destroy the archer on the hill (can't move onto mountain, so I do so with an archer, -3hp.

IBT - The zulus are heading south

Turn 2 - Not much.

Turn 3 - Destroy some archers by Lagash and St. Petersburg.

IBT - More advances.

Turn 4 - Kill a horseman/archer pair by kish, an archer by St. Petersburg and an archer by Lagash.

IBT - Well that was unexpected, those Zulu galleys must have landed S. in Russian territory as an impi/archer pairman comes up by Vladivostok. Another russian city pops up, this time on incense north of our Iron city (it's a good city spot for us too).

Turn 5 - Resting. With luck, the new russian city will be gone next turn.

IBT - More impis, not good news.

Turn 6 - Bye, bye Novobirks, we knew thee not well.

IBT - The Zulus attack Iron city with an impi unsuccessfully, next turn they will attack in full force (they gathered on the iron tile, unfortunately. The mayans complete Sun Tzu's.

Turn 7 - Destroy a settler pair, an archer and a spearman. I have to lower science b/c of unit costs.

IBT - we kill 3 zulu archers on defense, which allows us to retake the Iron tile.

Turn 8 - lose a horseman killing a spearman, but get an elite horseman out of it.

IBT - more advancements, no attacks.

Turn 9 - Kill 3 archers. Move a pair of enkidus towards iron city. We'll need more Enkidus if we want to defend the city AND the Iron AND leave the archer army free to attack cities. Next target, Vladivostok.

IBT - Not much, advancements as usual.

Turn 10 - Our curragh discovers furs on our landmass in the far North. Our archer army destroys one spearman in vladivostok, but another remains. We should be able to take the city next turn (I doubt it has more than 3 spearmen. I sent 4 enkidus on their way to Erech. 1 in the West and 1 in the East. The Western one should help guard the Iron, as should 1 of the Western ones. The other 2 Enkidus are actually to keep the russian troops off the mountains where they can roam about our lands (like one russian spearman did on my turns) and won't get the high ground. Ur should probably build a city soon as we need more troop support and need more cities to build armies. I would recommend the site of our old city on the hill where an enkidu is standing. Currency is due in 11 at -3 gpt with 79 gold in reserve.

Our next leader is coming soon. What do we want to do with him? FP immediately or wait for a sword army? I vote FP. It will take us a few turns before we get 4 more cities.

Do we have enough cities for the FP yet? We may need 10???

[Edit: We can build the FP. I always forget the city counts....]

I agree the FP would be best. Corruption is huge on tiny maps.

Yom
Handy - UP
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Slinger - I'm up in the other HNDY05 & will play that tomorrow. If you want to jump in & grab this, I'll play after you.

Yom
Handy - skip
Slinger -UP
T_McC
Greebley

I can't play unitl Monday, so please skip me.
Sorry for the hold up.

Barbslinger,
Do you know you are up in this game?

Sorry for the delay. I thought Handy was up here. I'll play tonight after reading the logs.

Just have to say that I think you guys are all nuts. Always War + Sid = :eek: :suicide:

Guys I'm really sorry I can't get to this tonight and it will have to be tomorrow night. I've been doing extended hours at work ever since Raytheon got signed for 2200 more tomahawk missles. My company makes the midbodies, tailcones and wings for the thing and we have been busy along with an ISO audit this week.

I think that is fine Barbslinger. Everyone else seems kinda busy anyway.

Yeah, I've been kind of busy and a little burned out. I think for the last 8 weeks I've been in 4 pseudo-AW games at a time. You don't get many short turns that way. :lol:

The other problem is that I'm pretty sure I've been shadowing this one when it's not my turn. (Easy test: If Moscow is still Russian when Slinger opens the game, I've already shadowed this round. :eek: :lol: ) I don't think I have any real surprising spoiler knowledge, but even that last crack was borderline.

I do think we are in a decent position in this game. The one thing I would emphasize is that we need to get a couple more cities down. It isn't doing us any good to burn Cathy's cities and not replace them. We can build one city that links the Iron to our core (ruins/Hill next to Horses) and another on an Incense hill E of that. Those cities will be targets, but they will replace other cities of ours as targets so we're not defending a larger front.

It would be really nice to keep Russian cities so we don't have to build every city from scratch and hurt our own city sizes and it gains us bigger cities sooner that can build more units quicker (and give us an advantage due to fighting rather than a disadvantage.

By this I mean if we build everything from scratch we are doing the same building we would have done anyway, but have to fight for the spots. Keeping the cities means we don't have to do building and don't have to shrink our cities making us stronger.

So I am thinking we should keep smaller cities even though there is a risk of flips. We should definitely fill lands as Russia can do this very quickly and we have to re-destroy the same spot over and over.

[Edit: Danz, Probably :) We already won the diety game though so this is next...

TMcC, does that mean you would rather wait for us to win/lose this one before starting HNDY5c? 4 is a lot of AW.

The problem we are having is that Cathy whips her cities down to size 1 whenever we are adjacent to them, and she has built no cultural buildings in her entire civ! Another reason to like Horses for the attack, we might catch her with a size 2 city.

Otherwise fully in agreement with capturing where we can. We are even or better in culture, and eventually we'll have 4 lux for our cities so the "Stop the Aggression ..." won't be a real hinderance.

SGOTM is dragging on, and will continue to do so for a long time. (Unless we get avalanched :lol: ) But I think we can start another Tiny game, these aren't so bad. Plus we can lose these pretty quickly. :p

Okay I'm back from a disaster of a weekend and a quick business road trip. I needed the skip to allow me to catch up on RL. Thanks. :) I'm taking 8th grade honors math, english & science this year - well actually the handyette is, and the homework is a real PITA. I'm destined to repeat 8th grade. I miss elementary school...

Anyway, maybe next week I'll kick off hndy05c if you guys are game. I'm thinking about running a contest for 05c. Whoever wants to can enter by posting a tiny map 20 turn start & we all vote on the map we want. Whoever posts the winning map gets to play on the team. I got several PMs asking to get in on HNDY 05, so I thought this would allow at least 1 person a chance for public humiliation. Any thoughts?

Plus we can lose these pretty quickly
Just caught this. Too funny. :lol:

SGOTM is dragging on No kidding!!

Sounds like an interesting idea Handy. I would definitely make it more than 20 turns that is preplayed. 20 is insufficient to get a good idea of the map. I would go with 30 turns like we did for 5a and b.

Handy05b-350BC

Preturn- Well back to this for another round of survival and hopefully some expansion. On that vein I swap the capital to settler since it has an entertainer going. MM the cities a bit to speed up one build. Take a look at the tactical situation and it does not look too bad. Wondering if the Zulu galleys are in or outbound.
IT – Zulus head north probably looking to land. Russian troops flash by 3 times and the zulu Impi heads N. Sumer-Horse>Walls, Bad-time-Enki>Rax.
[1] 330 – Fortify Enki mountain line. Bomb and kill an archer flawless, not exposed west of St. Petes. Destroy Vlad and pick up 2 slaves to help with iron road. Move around a few units and lose of MP in Kish mandates a lux boost for one turn. 3-0
IT – Whew, barely survive an archer attacking the fortified Enki guarding the 3 slaves roading the iron. 1 hp. Zulu ships look to be going around our northern horn. Russia looks to be heading to irontown now. 4-0
[2] 310 – Kill an archer near Bryansk, west of St. Petes and retreat and kill another near Lagash. Start moving some workers towards our future iron road. Curraugh shows Iron in the north past the Russia town. St. Petes goes to settler. 7-0
IT – Russians have a lot of troops heading to Iron town. Zulu land an archer and Impi in our far north. We have 2 Enkis there. St. P’s settler> Enki, Lagash-Cat>Enki. No battles.
[3] 290 – Finally kill the pesky Impi that made his way next to our horses. Get another Enki in Iron town and cover workers with army. Use 4/5 horse to kill a spear in Smolensk. He heads out to heal. 9-0. Have to drop research as gpt is now –13.
IT – 2 defensive kills and the impi in the north pillages our mine. They drop off an impi, archer and warrior with the pillager. Then they start Leos.11-0.
[4] 270 – Get another elite kill and a leader comes forth. I’m thinking this should be an FP. Lose a horse in the north. 12-1
IT – Win a defensive in northern Agade and lose to an archer. Impis take off to pillage.13-2. 2 new Zulu galleys come calling. I riot St. P’s because I moved an archer as my last move to go after Smolensk. Russians send a settler pair to kill in a bit.
[5] 250 – Road is finished on the iron but workers can’t go to other side quite yet, due to Russian forces, so they fortify in Iron town. Kill one Impi. Bryansk I get a kill with the horse and a scalding loss with the archer. Injured horse and Enki retreat to heal. 15-3
IT – 2 defensive kills. 17-3
[6] 230 – Army kills 2 of 4 archers crowding Irontown, move some troops. Check MM. 19-3
IT – 3 defensive kills. 22-3. Zulus land another Impi/archer near Agade.
[7] 210 – Kill the settler pair and then in a move of stupidity I nearly lose the Enki army attacking an archer on the mountain. 25-3
IT – Get a scare as a horse heads towards the Enki army. Mayan complete Sistenes and KT. Impi pillagers are on the move.
[8] 190 – Found Isin on what looks like a nice FP site. Still can’t get to the marsh to road it and connect iron all around.
IT – Build a temple in Ur and now we have 3 turn horses. St. P’s builds an Enki.
[9] 170 – Kill an Impi. Attack Smolensk and get a retreat, win, win and then trying t o take our the reg archer with an Enki goes down in flames. I rush the FP in Isin and should be able to get road started next turn. 28-4
IT – Get 2 defensive kills in Agade. Russians flee Irontown. Fp completes and walls are started. For some reason 5 cities want to riot but I scrolled ahead losing Ur to a riot. Russia lands a horse near Sumer. 30-4 Impi pillaged road to Agade. Could that have caused the riots? Another Zulu archer/ impi lands.
[10] 150 – Burn Smolensk and send a settler in to grab the fish. Gather another settler pair and slaves. Sent one to make a colony on the ivory. All workers are on the marsh to improve it. Killed the Russian horse north of Sumer and sent him to Sumer to heal.

Sent one Enki to cover a mine from pillaging impi. Perhaps build a colony and fortress on ivory. 2 more settlers would be nice and the impis in the north look to become a problem but a few swords should cure that. Hope the FP is OK. I felt that if we can populate the other cities on that leg to the west it would be pretty nice. Also, we have one now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HNDY05b_BC150.jpg

:goodjob: Nice turns. But why isn't Moscow Sumerian ;).

:goodjob: Nice turns. But why isn't Moscow Sumerian ;).I thought about it but wouldn't it be better to cramp thier production by saving Moscow for last. If we can clear out the other cities near Moscow and leave Moscow there they would have virtually no production at all. I would hate for the russian capital to jump to the eastern core.

Very solid.

We probably have as many cities as Cathy, and ours are better placed. Since we only have 9 cities our 3rd army is a ways off, so the next leader should probably go for the Heroic Epic. (I don't think we've built it yet.) After that I guess Markets when we can't build armies.

Agreed with saving a city in the SW for last with Cathy. Maybe Moscow, maybe the one farther west. I can't remember how the Capital jumps when every non-Capital city has zero culture. We may even get a flip somewhere in here, at least we're generating 4 non-Palace cpt. :p

I like the Incense Hill between Lagash and Erech for our next city. Haven't looked at the save, but do we have 2 settlers active? I see the one heading for the fish.

Sounds like an interesting idea Handy. I would definitely make it more than 20 turns that is preplayed. 20 is insufficient to get a good idea of the map. I would go with 30 turns like we did for 5a and b.

30 turns is a good idea. :goodjob:

Way to go Slinger! :goodjob:

Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC is UP
Greebley

I think I would rather get our 3 more cities right away. The Heroic epic is quite cheap and not really worth a leader to build. We have one settler, and need one for the incense. Lets build that third one or capture a city. That way we can use our forth leader to rush Pentagon.

I see our incense got cut. We will want to reconnect quickly. We can also build swords soon!

[Edit: Interesting we haven't met the Mayans yet. Lets keep land filled so they don't send over a settler. I would rather not meet them.

Ah, there was incense under Agade. That is where the riots came from. Well the north is getting pretty busy with Zulu landings. the rivers cause quite a delay too traversing back from south to north. It may be a while before it gets reconnected. The workers are hooking up the iron next turn and then I might send a few to fortress the iron so we can free up the army guarding it. The nice thing is we will have swords soon and the impis will certainly fall then.
Good luck, it is daunting but does not feel impossible quite yet.

Good luck, it is daunting but does not feel impossible quite yet.

That's encouraging. I think we all kinda have an intuitive feel for when it's hopeless in these games. Nice to hear we're not there........yet. ;)

I'm working on spooling up HNDY05c since I now have RL and the job under control again. Gosh I hate road trips. :cry:


HNDY05c is up and running. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2128618#post2128618) I assumed you were all in. Let me know if you are out.

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :)

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :) Of swords if you would please.

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :)

Goalsetting is a good thing. Good Luck. :goodjob:

HNDY05b - You Want a Piece of This?!?

150 BC (0)
I'll whip the Walls in Agade in 2. {Turns out I didn't, no need} I think I can get rid of the Impi next turn, but he'll pillage another tile first. (Unless he just runs away.)

OK, we only have 1 settler, let's get two more in production. Also means next leader may just go for the HE after all.

Lagash swapped to settler. It will max out at size 6 in 3 turns. The settler can be timed to match that, and we already have a few units that way.

I'll pop another settler out of Ur timed with growth to size 8.

I'm not going to colonize the Ivory. We would need too much to defend it right now.

IT - Win one, retreat one vs. Zulu.

130 BC (1)
Russians have Horses. :nono: Have to stop that.

We have Iron in our cities, and EW's upgrade to Pikes instead of Swords. So we need to build a few from scratch.

No real MM possible. Swap one city over to a sword.

110 BC (2)
Kill one Impi, bong another with the Cat.

Slowly sneaking up on a Russian city in the east. The Russkies have discovered our planned city in the West and are advancing.

90 BC (3)
Push Archer army towards intended victim city. Use Horse covered by Elite Enkidu to pillage Russian Horses. Have to figure out logistics of founding the Incense city, we're short on offense over there.

Found Akshak by the fish. Starts on Walls. Will come under attack, but per usual the AI will likely stop in front of the city and allow me to get the first attack.

Push Enkidu army out to view Moscow. Maybe we can do some more pillaging there.

Make a couple extra bucks with Currency coming in next turn.

IT - Nothing much.

70 BC (4)
Kill a Russian Horse. We'll be attacked next turn a couple of times. Maybe.

Trap is set at Yakutsk. The city is size 3, and we can attack three times next turn.

50 BC (5)
Miss Cat shot on Impi. He can't do anything useful, so no big deal.

Kill Russian Horse near Akshak. Then kill an Archer and the coast is clear over there. Start to push some workers and two Cats that way.

Slide Enkidu Army towards Incense hill. Settler is approaching from other direction. Retreat a Horse on an Archer there, so may have to attack with the Enkidu Army.

Kill Spear with Archer army, retreat Horse vs. Spear, then kill Spear with Archer army and capture Yakutsk. It's size 2, so you better believe Walls will be whipped once resistance ends. Also slide Elite Enkidu in there, we can be attacked by a couple reg. Archers next turn.

Enkidu army takes way too much damage to be comfortable, but slay an Archer that is in my way of founding the Incense city, our 12th.

I think the Zulu and Mayans are throwing down. Shaka hasn't landed anything in a while, and his cities are starving (via F11). More good news. :)

30 BC (6)
Win one on IT, but Russians pillage a tile at Yakutsk. Good Play Sparky. :rolleyes:

Lose Elite Horse on red-lined Impi, then kill his full-health brethren, in a forest, with a vet Horse. :crazyeye:

Whack Russian Archer and assume the position to form a city on Incense Hill. That will be 12, now where's my leader? Kill another Russian Archer at Yakutsk. The sun is starting to set on Cathy.

Skirt blue borders in our Curragh. I didn't see anything. Honest. :mischief:

Have to turn up lux for a turn, the Impi in the forest kept a Sword from completing next turn. Now it will again. :)

Nertz! Should have had Governor on in Yakutsk. The city will starve next turn and prevent me whipping it.

IT - Lose the regular Enkidu that was guarding our Iron. I never liked that guy anyway.

10 BC (7)
Found Incense city, start on Walls.

Our first Sword rolls off the line. Retreat Horse off of Iron. Red-lined Archer remains. Ehh, so we might have to hook it back up.

Lux tax to 10%, Writing now due in 5.

IT - Retreats.

10 AD (8)
Mis-click and move an Army. Re-load.

Couple of Russian Archers are advancing on Kish. We'll have three units, including a Sword waiting.

I think I can get another Russian city by the end of my turns. Requires leaving a vulnerable Archer alone this turn. In the not too-distant future we'll have the Russians penned up on the extremes of the continent.

IT - Hmm ... apparently all the party people want to go to Yakutsk.

30 AD (9)
Take a gamble. We can be attacked by two units next turn, and we have two Enkidu behind a river. I move out to attack Orenburg, scoring 1 victory with the Archer army.

IT - Win 3 on the IT, promoting an Enkidu in the field to Elite. Russians pillage and run at Yakutsk.

50 AD (10)
We win twice with the Archer army and capture Orenburg and three slaves. Then whack the Horse that ran away.

Cathy, that light at the end of the tunnel is a Sumerian Freight Train! Choo-choo!

Final Notes:
The Russians are gassed. They're 2cc'ing because Yekaterinaburg is building SoZ, and one of the 2CC is size 1. :lol:

I didn't check to see if they have any off-island cities, but from those visible they can only generate 5 troops every 8 turns, less if they have Horses somewhere I didn't see, plus whatever Moscow can build. The workers are starting the process of digging St. Pete out of the jungle, and then they can retreat to our core. No cities we capture/found from here on out will be better than 1/1 until Communism.

We are such a nice position that I think we should go for Lit next and get our cheap libraries on-line before we try for Monarchy and beyond. The Mayans completed Leo's during my turns, so they at least are drawing near to Cavalry. If we can get to Trebs and Knights before they can bring Rifles/Cavs in force, we can win.

Picture and dot-map in next post.

I didn't get us to 12 cities. :sad:

I got us to 13. :)

Open blue circle is the 4th lux on our continent. God-awful place for a city, but we'll manage.

Open red circle is our burgeoning Sword stack. Combine these three with the Elite Enkidu and we have another group capable of capturing cities in the mild east.

Since our Enkidu Army doesn't have much to do anymore, the southern pink dot should be a priority. It is located on top of the Ivory. The other pink dot completes a nice 3x3 square and brings a food bonus into play.

The western blue dot may be a productive city, the eastern is next to a food bonus and fills in territory.

The Zulu did not land a single troop on my turns and the Russians paid a terrible price. :D

Note the presence of zero Russian troops in this picture. :eek:

Nicely done!!

Looks like there is a safe landing zone for an army W of Akshak. Coastal jungle tile with no roads. If that's the main continent (and not a fake-out island ala Sling3) and we get a pillaging army to work at this early date we will be in excellent position to ride to victory.

First off, great going. Now another leader and we are rolling. There is incense under Agade I thought? Need to hook up that road again. Perhaps the Zulus gave up because they are fighting the Mayans. We should be able to populate our little slice of heaven over the next 20 turns to cover our island. The one thing I'm wondering though is you said 2CC'ing. I count 7 russian left. It looks like taking out Khabarovsk next and then fortifying the mountains leading to Bryansk to hold back the 3 russian towns left in the east. We can then concentrate on clearing out the russian west and filling out the FP core.
Looking good!

There is incense under Agade I thought? Need to hook up that road again.

Actually we don't need to. Zabalam is also built on Incense and is already on our road network. We need to connect the two ex-Russian cities to ours though.

The one thing I'm wondering though is you said 2CC'ing. I count 7 russian left.

Correct. But only two of those cities are within 15 tiles of their capital. All the rest are 1/1 crap. And of the two in their core, one is tied up building a wonder and the other was size 1 the last time we saw it. It may have grown since, but I didn't see very many troops from the west.

Next leader should carefully look things over. We may have an opportunity to get away with building 4-5 settlers in the next 10 turns. I felt we had more than enough troops to handle what was thrown at us, and we don't have a pressing need for much more military unless we want to step up the attack on the Russians.

And I just had a wicked thought: There are at least 3 Horses on our continent. It is entirely possible the Zulu and Mayans have to share 1 or zero. If the AI is forced to do an Infantry-only game, we're in terrific shape.

I think he already knows, but Greebley is up.

Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley is UP

Check out the starts we have to choose from @ HNDY05c - play your way onto the team (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98021) when you have a chance. Submissions are due Sunday @ midnight, then we get to vote on the start we want.

Ok I got it and will try to play tonight.

So what order should we go for city kills?

I am inclined to go for Kharabvosk, and then the 3 to the south including Moscow. This will make our line of defense very easy.

When did Yekatiniaburg start SoZ? I think I want to take it out just after it finished.

I'd go for Kharabovsk, then circle the Archer army back towards Moscow. Yekat started building SoZ about my 2nd or 3rd turn. If they can pull 5 spt they will finish it at the end of your turns. Agreed to let them finish the Statue, then we have 5 turns to snag the city. :)

I would not attack the Russian core until all the cities in the east are ours, I doubt anything we capture in either area will be useful to us and nothing is getting past the EW/Sword group by the mountains.

I actually think we are better served to push settlers rather than military on these turns. It should be easy to build 3-4 Settlers in the next 10. Ur can do another after the one queued (with an intervening unit or two to let it grow), and Lagash can probably do one after it grows to size 6. The Russians are not putting up much resistance.

I won't be concentrating on military (i.e. I agree with settling), but the archer army will need something to do :)

I think the last cities should be the 3 NE most cities. Distance corruption will be less, but the Russians won't have a land route to our lands and we can settle more land.

The concern I have with attacking the Russian core is that if we capture Moscow or whatever the NW city is, they may stop building SoZ for us.

Ehh. Either way, so long as we can attack cities we can capture instead of raze. If it works out right we may be twice the size of either the Zulu or Mayans. That has to count for something.

Writing will complete early in your turns. Maybe we go for Map Making and hope for a leader. Or my original thought of Lit to speed up all the rest of our researching. I'm not sure how critical Libraries will be, we should have many specialist cities.

One concern I have is that the Mayans will be destroyed. In that case we will have to get a foothold on a continent as big as ours with only one civ. Pillaging doesn't work in that case as the AI will attack armies.

First thing to do when I get home (or you can when you open the game): Check the Zulu city list. I was under the impression that the Mayans were winning that war. They seem to have all of the recent wonders, and I only figured the other continent was at war when I checked F11 and saw three Zulu cities listed, and all three were starving.

Very interesting. I was assuming the Mayans were losing since we didn't see them yet. It may be they are simply concentrating on land units.

I agree on not destroying Moscow until after the SoZ is built.

Great banter there guys. The SoZ wold be a nice feather to have for sure. It's culture will keep it from auto-razing too I would think so It can be captured as soon as it completes. You could probably station the archer army just outside the city gates in preparation for the capture.
On the russian western cities; is corruption that bad on the tiny map that the FP in Isin won't help those cities?

:goodjob: Great turns T_McC.

If the Mayans are losing badly, then I believe it's in our best interests to start taking the Zulu down a notch now. They're definitely at war with the Mayans, seeing as there were 0 landings. Seeing as we only have galleys, we'll have to send a 1-unit enkidu army, defended by 2 Elite Enkidus. A preliminary galley/curragh (do we have MM?) might be in our bests interest to find the Zulu continent and see how badly they've beaten the Mayans.

The Zulu may be losing according to TMcC.

No Map Making yet. It will probably be our next tech.

On the Russian western cities; is corruption that bad on a tiny map that the FP in Isin won't help those cities?

The central problem is that the OCN for a Tiny map on Sid is ~9.25 (with the FP). :eek:

The city just SW of Isin may be decent, and the SW Blue dot from the previous DM should be OK. But otherwise we're looking at serious corruption problems in every other city in our S or W.

Another point. The DM I posted is a little loose in the 2nd ring (meaning >12 tiles/city). That was intentional, even though Yakutsk and Orenberg are horribly corrupt and don't need that many tiles. If we want to squeeze those cities, let's do it from the S along the shore and leave our potentially strong cities with lots of tiles.

Let go MM on research. It looks like there is an unroaded jungle tile we can safely insert the army on to the W of Akshak. If we get an army inserted, we can pillage the stronger of the Mayans & Aztecs to make sure they both survive.

GreebleyAre you 100% sure a lone remaining AI will attack a pillaging army on the AI's home continent? I thought the AI would run to the boats to attack our shores. I do know if we build a city on their continent, and place an army in the city they will attack. I don't think a lone remaining AI will attack a pillager unless the AI has the army way out-gunned, as long as the AI can cross the seas to get to us.

GreebleyAre you 100% sure a lone remaining AI will attack a pillaging army on the AI's home continent? I thought the AI would run to the boats to attack our shores. I think they would do both. I was pretty sure Greebley had told us in a previous post he had witnessed it first hand. There can not be any other AI on that continent at all though. If the Mayan and Zulu are fighting I would think there is a land connection somewhere for them. As long as the Zulu do not go extinct it should be OK.

Ya, there was an example in one of the LK games. They had a pillaging army on the other continent. One turn after the player on the same starting continent was eliminated, the army was attacked and destroyed. I played around with the save and the city fell two turns later than the SG. The army was also attacked two turns later - to the attacked again waited until the AI had its own continent.

There may be examples where the army isn't attacked. We can't really count on this. For example, It keeps some troops as defense. If the AI has that number of troops or less, I suspect it will not attack. It may also not attack if there is free land available or any easier target like non-army units. I am unsure what happens if there are neutral units on the continent. Neutral cities seems to quell this affect.

It may also only apply to the starting continent or the continent with the capitol. I am not sure on this.

Also if the AI has its own continent it is much more likely to build bombers and boats.

For now we should assume both civs will survive as pillaging is very useful. If this changes then we can discuss. Dropping defensive units on mountains to get good kill ratios is probably best if we can't pillage.

Ok.

Let's hope we get lucky and pop a leader before they build roads to the jungle.

Off topic - Yom - you are up in SGOTM3

Yom is also up in BZ9...

If the army does get attacked we could try to take a city and then gift it to Cathy. that would put 2 AI on the continent.

Can we gift something while we are at war with them?

Intersesting idea. I like it if it can be done.

No, you'll have to declare peace gift, then redeclare war. Don't know how you guys feel about it, since you have to leave the diplo screen to declare war again. This is bordering very close to the old AI city bug from the first few versions of vin Civ3

Whoops, my bad. Just trying to think out of the box. Back to kill off Cathy, get to pillaging and building some education to get our tech moving.

I just took a peek at the Zulu diplomacy screen, and Shaka has one Mayan city under his control. Maybe he is winning.

But I also couldn't help but notice he does not have either Horses or Iron. :bounce:

Hmmm ... check F7 and tell me what large building is missing ...

:)

Preturn: Things look good.

IBT: Zulu plant a city on our island.

70 AD: Advance Archer army. Move the swords to the front lines. Send 1 sword toward the Zulu city.

IBT: Our archer army is attacked and injured. I wonder if it was because the unit was "trapped" by the army.

Ur: Settler->Settler
Sumer: Sword->Sword
Lagash: Sword->Market

90 AD: Retreat Archer army. Send Enkidu army off to disconnect Moscow.

IBT:
Bad Time: Worker->Market
Asharak: Walls->Cat.

110 AD: Attack an archer.

IBT: A few Russian units seen

130 AD: My first Elite victory gets us a Leader (sword army anyone?) Switch a St Peters to a sword.
Another archer dies.

IBT: Horse seen
Ur: Settler->Market

150 AD: Build Kissura. I Build it to give us passage so it is a bit crowded.
I capture Ibabanbo - the Zulu town. It was already size 2.

IBT:
Isin: Barracks->Enkidu

170 AD: Lose two swords vs one Spear and we don't destroy Byansk. Grrr!

IBT: The Mayans land a settler with a musket. They land it where we were planning on settling too. Zulu have another city on our land mass.

190 AD: Destroy Bryansk. Our army is finally ready to attack. Mayans have only 7 cities. Declare war.
BTW the Zulu have 14 cities

IBT: We now have Map Making! Start Mysticism as it is only 4 turns.

210 AD: Destroy Khabavrosk. Change over to more settlers. Hurry a Galley in Agade.

230 AD: Gathering forces near the russian city building the SoZ.

250 AD: The archer army is still far away from the SOZ. Our 1 sword army is nearby, the Enkidu army and other units.

Notes:
The statue of Zeus must be "Real Soon Now. They have a hill with a mine.
Progress was slower than I hoped, but russia is really hurting now.
We have 1 galley and will build the other in 2 turns. In 4 turns we could get the army across (Need to wait for SOZ though).

Even if we lose we have proven you can beat a SID opponent in AW when you start on the same land mass. That is no small feat! We may even win!

Here is a picture. Feel free to adjust what is building. I was sometimes at a loss.

Yom is UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Sounds very good. If we manage to get a pillaging army across the pond we have a real chance at this. :thumbsup:

I jumped in front of Yom in SGOTM3, so I hope Yom can get to this. I'm in town this weekend, so if no word from Yom in 24 hrs, I'll try to pick it Saturday.

Even if we lose we have proven you can beat a SID opponent in AW when you start on the same land mass. That is no small feat! We may even win!

Had to check again, but ...

If I recall correctly from my shadow turns, neither the Zulu nor the Mayans have either Horses or Iron! They'll be breaking out the Longbows for an invasion.

And, no one has Lit yet. The Market in Ur is a nice start to pre-building for the Great Library. (Yom will have to switch to the Heroic Epic before the Market completes.)

If this is all correct, we're past the stage of may win. :D

Even if the SoZ is built, the Russians won't get any AC if the Enkidu army clips the Ivory. :) We can wait for the Archer army to make the scene, and can send the pillaging army whenever we have enough boats. Since we won't be attacking anything with that army I would load a couple of Elite Enkidus in the 2nd Galley. Or we could hedge and take 1 Enkidu + 1 Sword, so that the army is a 4/3 unit.

Yeah, I'd definitely take a look at the builds. We're currently building zero troops. I think 50-turn Markets can wait and 30-turn settlers will better serve us as workers.

I'm just upset because my shadow went a little smoother. :lol:

I built a lot of units in the early part of the turn. I would build at least 2 settlers and get the 2 missing resources if we possibly can. We really need happiness.

I don't think we should put Enkidu in the new army. A 3 sword army can take out units and even cities. We will want to pillage at first, but the AI repairs things so fast we may want to switch to permanant destruction at some point. We can also kill Longbow with little risk.

Are you kidding!?!? No lit! That's fantastic news. If we can get TGL, we're locked for a win. The only thing that's holding us back now is our technological inferiority. If we can catch up, we're set. :D

I don't think we should put Enkidu in the new army. A 3 sword army can take out units and even cities.

Well ... if it's a three-member army the only advantage we gain with the third sword is if we're reduced to using it's third member on an attack. If that happens the Army is lost regardless. Post-MilAcad the third sword boosts the army attack value, and post-Pentagon 4 Swords beats any combination including Enkidus. My concern is that we're not building any troops in that picture, and we don't want all of our swords on the other continent. We will have to fend off landings and until we get Engineering our defense is not that flexible. So I certainly support an all-sword army, but build us some more for home too. :)

The Pentagon is now available as a terrific pre-build/fallback for the Great Library.

Where's our Dinky? Or did we upgrade that to a Galley already?

Our dinky is out and about and can be upgraded.

Previously I was building nothing but swords since we just got them. I think we need some infra too - especially markets. We have none.

By all means try for the GLib in our capitol.

Are you kidding!?!? No lit! That's fantastic news. If we can get TGL, we're locked for a win. The only thing that's holding us back now is our technological inferiority. If we can catch up, we're set. :D


Yom, did you realize you are up in this one? :) I didn't see an I got it.

Yom is UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

I realize I'm up. I'm planning on playing this on Saturday as well (Only time will tell if I have enough time to play it at midday or the afternoon, though).

I wasn't able to finish Bz9 until now, so this will have to wait until Sunday afternoon, if you don't mind.

Turn 0 - Switch Ur from Marketplace to The Pentagon, due in 36 (400 shields). I've got my fingers crossed for TGL.

I'm a bit skeptical on the location of Kissura, but I won't disband it. I'm still going to build a city on T_McC's blue dot 1 S and 1 SW of where it is now, though. I only make 1 build change, but once most of these settlers are built, I'll focus on some more troop production.

IBT - Various troop movements, the Mayans advance a longbow and a Crusader.

Turn 1 - Der founded. Emphasize production was off, so I turn it on.

IBT - We lose an Enkidu on defense to a Longbow (expected), but it allows our workers to complete the road this turn, rather than retreat.
Mysticism learned, research set to Polytheism in 7 at +4gpt (Literature next, then Monarchy).

Turn 2 - Good thing we waited a bit before sending an army over to the Zulu continent. There's actually a 4 tile island right next to the main continent that we may have accidentally have landed on.

IBT - We defeat a Russian archer. The mayans advance another longbow in addition to the one they already have near Der and advance their Crusader. This is gonna be a close fight, or we're gonna have to take some casualties.
Orenburg and Erech (iron city) riot. :smoke: Sorry about that.
Yekaterinburg has finished Zeus! Time to attack.

Turn 3 - Nevermind about that 4 tile island thing. It's barely connected to the mainland.
I seem to have forgotten about our Archer army, which can take out a Longbow this turn. Our catapult hits the 2/3 Longbow and a horseman takes it out flawlessly. The archer army kills the 2/3 Longbow flawlessly as well.
I think we built a few too many settlers. I wish some of those were swordsmen right now as the areas we want to settle aren't enemy-free (save one inside our borders).

IBT - Lmao!! The Mayans are fools. They move their crusader onto another mountain (Rather than the plains, which is smart), but they bring with them a settler that moves onto the mountain undefended.

Turn 4 - Our swordsman army (2 swordsmen only) takes Yekaterinburg, losing 2 hp in the process but getting us Zeus and a slave.

We capture the Mayan settler, netting us 2 slaves.

IBT - The Crusader attacks a regular Enkidu on a hill (that I put there so it couldn't stay on the high ground) and wins, but loses 2hp. A russian archer dies at the hands of a vet Enkidu at Kissura (it wouldn't attack when the Elite Enkidu was showing, though).

Turn 5 - Once again, it's good to explore before sending an army out. The Island near us is NOT the Zulu Homeland. There may be a passage in the South though, since I see a Zulu border poking out.
The lucky crusader defeats a veteran horseman (after redlining, it won 4 straight points) AND promotes.
Kua is founded.
Our sword Army takes out an archer, losing 1 hp in the process. The battle for Moscow will occur next turn. I should probably let the capital stay far away from their cities, but since they have so few cities, the far away cities should have regular corruption anyway. All of them are size 1 too, so there's no need to delay Moscow's capitulation any further.

IBT - We defeat a Longbow and Crusader on defense, getting one promotion to elite.
Yakutsk and Yekaterinburg riot. I keep forgetting that MP means something in the small cities (once the russians are dead, they shouldn't be a problem).

Turn 6 - Our cats go 2/3 at Moscow. We kill 3 spearmen and an Archer and get a Leader on my first try leader fishing. Do we want the Pentagon or another army? I will save this decision for the next leader as there's little chance for more Elite Combat on my turns.
Moscow is captured along with 2 slaves. I decided to capture, not raze, since it's too small to get us any slaves. If we deem it too high a flip risk (which I don't believe it is)

IBT - The Mayans advance another reg Longbow out of Calakmul.

Turn 7 - A Vet horse defeats the Longbow flawlessly and retreats.

IBT - We defeat another Russian Archer on Defense.
Mysticism comes in, research set to Literature in 19. We could have gotten Monarchy in 13 and still made a little gpt, but if we get TGL (which it seems we will) we won't need to research it, so why waste the money doing so? The AI will have Education soon (if it doesn't already) so it should be getting Literature right after, meaning that TGL could fall soon, but I think we can take that chance.

Turn 8 - Marad Founded. Calakmul will be assaulted soon. Most likely on my last turn or the turn after.

IBT - The Mayans advance Yet another Longbow out of Calakmul

Turn 9 - Our vet horseman kills the Longbow, losing 2 hp but promoting.
A Catapult hits the Musketman in the city, but no other defender pops up. They may have more units in there, though.
Our archer army defeats the Musketman, losing 3 hp (now 11/14), revealing a reg spearman. The army attacks again, and wins, losing 2 hp. Calakmul is razed since it is 1 tile away from the proposed city spot (on the Ivory). No slave, unfortunately.

Our curragh is kinda useless with its short range, so I'm going to attempt a suicide run to see if it can get across the 4-tile sea/ocean (if only we were seafaring or had TGLighthouse). In its crossing, it discovers a Mayan Caravel near our coast. Let's hope it's not landing anything near our newly conquered territories as I barely defended them so that I could push the offensive.

IBT - The Mayan Caravel luckily retreats. We also defend against an Elite Impi who manages to do more damage than the past 3 russian archers combined (1 hp).

Turn 10 - Kuara Founded. I move most of our troops towards the Western front. We need some more settlers to fill it out, but we have plenty of troops to clear out our West. The addition of Ivory made our cities a lot happier, and Furs would do a lot of help as well. All of our size 2 cities can be happy without any scientists, but I have left them there for now so that we don't have to increase the science rate. Right now, it seems that our Pentagon Prebuild will finish 1 or 2 turns before we research Literature (thanks to growth).

Our leader is right outside Isin. You can use him for an army or for the Pentagon or Heroic Epic. I'm starting to think that an Army was the smartest thing to do now, but it won't make a difference since we only have 1 elite unit capable of producing a leader right now. If we do build an army, I would reserve it for Ancient Cavalry which we get next turn.

Finally, I left the movement of the Galley unmoved because we can use it as a suicide Galley if we want, but it's up to the next person.

Very nice turns. :goodjob:

Diplo update: Zulu still don't have either Horses or Iron. They have to be winning their war vs. the Mayans as they have 44% of the worlds pop.

The Mayans also don't have either Horses or Iron. They only have 8 cities.

Cathy is .... :lol:

Next leader really should put a unit (or 3) in Akshak. The Zulu can land there and we don't cross rivers well.

I'd almost be tempted to whip the settler in Agade next turn. Next leader should ponder that.

We may be able to capture Magadan even if it is size 1. It is the new Russian capital, and the city will claim furs for us. We can build a city on the Hill in the this strip of land leading to the city to create a more easily defended land route to the lux.

I'm not sure it is a suicide route to get from where the Galley is standing to the western border. Worth a try, and then we can do the mid-pt transfer trick of Greebleys if we need it to move an army.

Yom pulled a Homer when that near piece of land was an insignificant island. We cannot transport an army with 2 units in it! All of the current armies are stuck on our island until Astronomy. We'll have to send an army of regular AC because Yekat does not have Barracks. (Get workers there to chop the forest ASAP!)

Shouldn't we have an AC by now? I guess Yekat wasn't connected to the Ivory by turn 9.

I guess it's alright to accumulate cash while we wait for Lit, we can always run a deficit later. I think the AI will be less likely to go for Lit if we don't devalue it.

The leader really has to be turned into an empty army. We could be shipping it across in 15 turns.

We should also try to circle our workforce back to Ur. The capital is working 2 unimproved tiles at size 7, and will grab another next turn. Mined hills will cut 4-5 more turns off the G.Lib build.

Might start to think about skewing our builds toward Horses, since we know we'll be able to build Knights. We may also have >800 gold for upgrades when the time comes.

It's AW, and we're 27 units below our support limit. We can always use more workers. We're going to have a problem once we revolt, only a couple of our cities will be over size 6.

I think we have enough settlers being built. Four should cover most of the open territory and we should be able to capture a couple of the enemy cities.

Argh!! I forgot that the army counts as a unit!!! We'll need Caravels to transport them, won't we! Sorry about that team. On the other hand, we won't be able to cross the channel until Caravels either, so it doesn't make a difference. We should have Astronomy in 20 turns if things go as planned, though.

I'll start on this tonight.

Yom
Handy UP
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Don't forget to post your selections (and whether you want to play 1 or 2 additional AWS games over in the HNDY05c (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98021) thread). I'm assuming you are all in for at least 1 game unless you say other wise.

Ok, I got it. Getting a late start tonight, so I may not finish until Tuesday.

Very Quiet

Summary:
Capture fur City
Raze a russian city
Barracks for SoZ
No safe galley crossing in sight
Zulu have 2 cities on our soil, but not for long.
No Elite battles, so we still have the leader (in isin).
Improved tiles in Ur.
Lit in 9, Pentagon in 9.


Preturn
Move EW to Akshak.
I’ll save the leader until we have an opportunity for an elite battle. I’ll probably build an army, but I’ll save him in case something better seems appropriate.
Looks like there is a southern crossing S of Tugela.
Change SoZ city to barracks that we can chop & pop.

IBT
EW defends against Russian archer
We get an Acav. He’ll stay at home to defend SoZ

Turn 1 360ad
Workers head to chop barracks in SoZ city
Sending workers to Ur to mine the hills, to start a road to our furs, and to improves some core tiles.
Sword army is going after furs.
Archer army is going after Russian cities on flat land.
Sword to Akshak
Mm Agade to grow in 7 and get the settler in 9, so I think I’ll not rush. We can hire a specialist for the last 2 turns.
Don’t want to waste galley on a suicide run.

IBT
Lagash – sword – EW (we are light on spears)

Turn 2 370 ad
Moving into position.

IBT
Bad Time – sword – horse

Turn 3 380
No landings. Should have a couple of Russian cities soon. It will take a while to get the furs hooked up.

IBT
Spot 2 Zulu galleys & 1 Mayan galley
Lagash – EW – EW

Turn 4 390
Exploring & moving in for kill

Turn 5 400
Capture the fur city – a chain gang is building roads.
Cathy is down to 2 cities, soon to be 1 city.
Pentagon in 17, lit in 16.

IBT
Second Acav comes online. I wish we had a safe crossing! Still looking.
Lagash – EW – EW
Kish – sword – horse
Resistance ends in Furs R Us.
2nd Acav

Turn 6 410
Raze Kazan and capture 2 workers.
Finish forest chop & pop a barracks in SoZ city. We have 2 regular Acav, the rest will be vets.

IBT
Zulu want to talk

Turn 7 420
Promising Mayan border turns out to be a tease as it’s not a safe passage.
Lit in 14, Pentagon in 14. Next leader will have to watch the Prebuild closely. You can speed lit up by working a scientist if need be. Pentagon build will drop when the mines finish over the next 2 turns.

IBT
Akshak – barracks – EW
Lagash – EW – EW

Turn 8 430
Found Kutha
Pentagon now in 12, so slider goes to 10% to get lit in 11.

IBT
Isin – market – horse
Zabalam – settler – settler

Turn 9 440
Bad time starts a market since Isin finished it’s market and can now build military.

IBT
Lagash – EW – EW
Zulu have founded another City in our lands.
The sword army is on the way to greet them.

Turn 10 450



Notes
Sword army is in Kish, on the way to take the two Zulu cities. It can hook up with the 2 swords on the mountain near Kissura.
Active settler is near Kua.
Lit in 9, pentagon in 9 – so watch the Prebuild.
Kish needs irrigation, chop and a mine on a hill.
I poked around a good bit with the galleys. I don’t think any safe galley passage exists. :(
Leader is in Isin There were no elite battle opportunities, but you may as well go ahead & build the army. We’ll so have 3 Acav, and need to suicide a galley I guess to get a way to get them over there. We get a pillaging army, and we win this.
Not a since AI landed on these turns.
Keep an eye on the Russian galley near Orenburg.
Next leader gets to kill Russia off, and clear out the Zulu.
No AI action on the Glib.

Yom
Handy
Slinger UP
T_McC
Greebley

Mauve Alert! Mauve Alert!

The Mayans have Lit!

We should still get the Library (we're 276 shields in), but we won't get an SGL for discovering Lit first. :(

I just thought of something weird: We're scientific. Once we build the G. Lib we're going to get most of the MA. Will we get our free tech first, or will we get the Library techs first? It may mean getting Metallurgy for free, or heaven forbid both the Zulu and Mayans reach the IA, we might get two freebies in the IA. :lol:

Let's try to get two Galleys and a Harbor on both sides of the continent. That way once we build the Library we can put two pillaging armies on enemy soil. We'll almost assuredly get Astronomy and there are safe routes for Caravels on each side. Next leader should remember not to put another unit in the Sword Army. We should also be looking for opportunities to promote the AC before they get loaded into the Army. There is no reason not to use our MGL on another Army right now.

Next leader gets to see the Russians off. If one wanted to be sneaky, wait until the borders expand at Tver' to capture (5 or 6 turns). It's in a good spot, so a little patience can save us a settler. :)

We need Courts and Libraries once we complete the G. Lib and have our revolt. I'm sure we can afford Monarchy because we are way under our support limit now. We can always use more workers.

We may want to veto the settler at Erech and let it grow beyond size 6 for unit support.

Handy-Sid-Sumerians 450AD
Preturn – All looks pretty good. I really don’t like the looks of the zulu so close and a cleansing of that island would be nice. Library times out in 9 with the lit research. Play around with the specialists a bit and finally decide to stick with what is happening. Also don’t like the idea of Zulu getting a harbor in Amatikulu and the iron hooked up.
IT – Zulu found another town north of T’ver. AC and walls are built.
[1] 460 – Archer army takes a swipe at T’ver at size 2 and goes down to 1/14 before winning. Swords and Sword army move out. Lagash goes to a horse. Orenburg goes to worker. We really have a lot of unimproved land here, even in the core. Zulus have a musket in the new town. Looks like I am primarily looking to take out the Russians and then wait on TGL.
[2] 470 - Lots of worker moves, horse can’t den’t T’ver. I have the galley coming to pick up the AC and a cat.
IT – Isin-Horse>Horse, Akshak-Enki>horse.
[3] 480 – Take down the musket to expose an Impi in the new Zulu town. It was risky with odds at 58% but he performed admirably. Drop off AC and cat to take down Russian town. Lit and pentagon in 6.
IT – Sumer-Mkt>horse, Agade-Settler>Worker. We were attacked by a zulu galley and record a sea victory. Russia drops an archer.
[4] 490 – I don’t know what the Russians are eating but the spear takes no damage from cat or AC and then 8/14 archer takes 1hp before retreating. Now I know. Eating our units alive. However, we do take the Zulu town intact. Kill the archer drop off with Enki after retreating an E horse.
[5] 500 – Furs are in and lux drops to zero which only affects Ur which gets a taxman not shorting TGL build.
IT – AC, 2 horses, walls and a rax. Most military builds go to horses for knights coming up, others are workers. Zulus send an archer down from the north.
[6] 510 – Merely moving workers and units to prep for archer and attack on T’ver again in 2. TGL in 3.
IT- A few nice builds and Zulus start Copernicus. We lose an Enki in the forest to the archer. Oops, make that a LB.
[7] 520 – Kill the LB and go elite with a horse, cover with Enki.
[8] 530 – Our elite Enki defends flawlessly in the forest to a LB. Sword army heads north to make sure Zulu are NOT getting iron. Here comes TGL.
[9] 540 – TGL>Market. Ac ouple of horsies too. We have 1136 +59gpt for upgrades for next leader. Finally, the archer army does his job in T’ver and takes down 2 spears with an AC finishing off the archer and the Russians ARE GONE! City comes with 2 pop set to walls. All specialists go back to work or become a taxman. No science needed for this IT, waiting on the tech roller coaster.
IT – We get 14 techs capping out at Chem and Astro. No banking, PP, Metal or Music. Maya have navigation and banking on us.
[10] Researching is futile without librarys. Jump to Anarchy and pull a 7-turn. Yikes. I’ll leave off here and let next leader do the upgrades. Salt is connected near St. Petes. I moved all the workers and just left the horses and settlers. I also killed another LB with the sword army which delayed getting to the iron.

Looks lots better except for lack of metal and MT. Maybe that is a good thing. We don’t need cavs landing quite yet. We can upgrade quite a bit with the 1200g in the kitty.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-550ad1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-550ad2.jpg

Solid turns, Barbslinger. 7 turns of anarchy hurts, but we'll be better off in the end. I think we should focus on building workers in our fringe cities and libraries/infrastructure in our core. With Galleons, we should be able to transport 2 armies over to the enemy continent without the need for many units at home. I do think we need one harbor city though (most likely Sumer). It will build 1 Galleons and we will upgrade our 2 regular Galleys there. Also, we'll need 1 more reg galleon from Akshak. That way, we can keep the armies in the reg. Galleons and the 3rd units for the armies (1 ACav and 1 Sword) in another reg. Galleon and have an empty Vet. Galleon as protection (if this takes too long, we could always keep our 3rd men in a Vet galleon). We do want 3-unit armies there, don't we?

I wouldn't build many knights for now. We won't be seeing much action with them and Cavalry are only 2 turns away (they do only cost 30 gold to upgrade though). I think a little infrastructure would be best for now, with a few knights here and there.

Edit: And don't forget to get that Furs hooked up. That'll be our 4th lux, right :D.

Excellent turn Barbslinger. A civ gone, our homeland is almost completely ours, and we got the TGL. Who would have guessed we could get the TGL in 550 AD at SID?

Not only that but you cleverly gave TMcC 7 turns of Anarchy. Good thing he likes it so much.

I agree on clearing the nearby islands first. I assume we also have the leader ready to for a pillaging army for the Zulu and Mayans? I think we should go for a knight Army That way we can use it on defense too. I guess we can also get that sword army across now as well - maybe add a musket to it and use it defensively?

We will want to restart Pentagon of course. I would build it from scratch rather than wasting a leader. Pillaging will gain us more and we don't need pentagon until we start attacking cities on the other continent. It would be nice to have Cavalry before that happens.

Do we want to save some cash so we can go for 100% research to Cavalry?

Not only that but you cleverly gave TMcC 7 turns of Anarchy. Good thing he likes it so much.
Yes, I was quite amused when 7 turns popped up too. I wasn't quite sure who was next but when it said seven I made a mental bet that it had to be T_McC. Funny!
@ Yom. Furs are hooked up under the town. See 500ad.

the research rate was metal in 46 at -2gpt when I looked. Not good. Libs/Markets in all -50% corrupt towns will help. Growth in outlying areas with specialists too.

Can we do some real resarch in Anarchy using specialists? Scientists get pretty powerful in bigger countries.

Once we are monarchy we can irrigate all corrupt towns and get a large number of scientists if we so desire.

Can we do some real resarch in Anarchy using specialists? Scientists get pretty powerful in bigger countries. I'm sure T will fix that up. Besides upgrading a few horsies, planning a Zulu assault there won't be much else to do with the anarchy and all. :) :D :lol: :rotfl:
Sorry it gets funnier the more I think about it.

I think I'm going to play 15, and spend all of the money.

I think I'm going to play 15, and spend all of the money.


It is pretty amazing how T_McC always seems to get the anarchy in these games. :lol:

I think TMcC is grumpy. :D

Go ahead and take 15 if you want.

I think TMcC is grumpy. :D

Go ahead and take 15 if you want. I was thinking 17. 7 anarchy and 10 to take down the zulu and fill out the continent.

I agree - take 10 turns after anarchy is over if you want to. :)

The other AWS games are up and running...

AWS Iroquois (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98566)

AWS Celts (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98571)

I flipped a coin. Handy's up in Iroquois, T_McC is up in the Celts

7 turns of Anarchy isn't THAT bad. 15 turns should be plenty. The only difference in Anarchy is no new troops. Doesn't mean you can't have some fun ;).

HNDY05b - We Don't Even Have a Snappy Title :(

550 AD (0)
You are the scum under the leaves after it rains.

Lugalbanda builds an Army. We're going to have 2 pillaging armies on the other continent. Next leader rushes the Pentagon.

After creating all the scientists possible, it's still only going to be worth 1/5 of a tech to completely stop growth. Not useful, so everybody back into the fields.

We are overmining, particularly around cities that have Mountains and Hills to use. Put a stop to some of that. Also start 4 Caravels, a pair on each coast.

560 AD (1)
Really don't want any part of vet Muskets on Hills, so by-pass near Zulu city to whack the Iron city.

570 AD (2)
Off a Zulu LB, backtracking from the Iron City. Slight problem, our Armies are all getting caught in the East.

580 AD (3)
Kill another Zulu LB. Have our pair of two-member Armies together. Have to bring Archer army up as well.

590 AD (4)
Are the Mayans still in this game?

Kill two units with the AC army, promoting a member to Elite. Now it will have 15 HP when it hits Zulu shores. :)

Forest chops are progressing a few builds. There is a Zulu Caravel sneaking around, so I upgrade a Horse to a Knight.

600 AD (5)
AC Army almost bites it, dropping to 1 HP before retreating while being attacked by an LB.

Win one with the Sword Army, but drop to 4 HP and retreat.

610 AD (6)
Shaka has Horses. We haven't seen any yet, and we have time to clip them before Cavalry.

620 AD (7)
Shaka is floating around, but nothing special yet.

We're a Monarchy and the Zulu build Copernicus.

We make +67 gpt, and I'm not starting research yet. I want to rush a couple of Caravels and get a few Libraries finished first. We do have a few scientists poking along (11 to be exact). We could get Metallurgy in 16 turns.

The sum total of land troops I have queued up is zero. :lol: We are 18 over our support limit, to be improved by a couple of Aqueducts that will be rushed.

630 AD (8)
Hurry two Caravels in the West for 230 gold. The AC army ships out next turn.

Off a pair of Zulu LB's. We really need another Leader so I can build an Knight Army and be done with these guys.

640 AD (9)
The AC army sails away, never to return. A compatriot accompanies them in a separate boat.

Little more Infra completes, much more to do.

650 AD (10)
Now the Eastern task force is assembling for transport to Mayan lands.

Must dig St. Pete's out of the jungle to free up tiles for other cities.

660 AD (11)
We make landfall next turn in the West, and depart our shores in the East. The Zulu are just screwing around sacrificing LB's left and right.

670 AD (12)
Zulu make a nice landing in our south. We trade an AC for a LB, and redline a Musket. Max of one more unit to be lost on the IT. Upgrade another Knight to deal with the problem.

Things will start to look bleak for the Zulu next turn. We land the AC army on a Hill, and will properly assemble next turn. Kill yet another Zulu LB in our East.

IT - Zulu LB flawlessly kills our Enkidu behind Walls and spawns a leader. Shame that guy won't survive this turn.

680 AD (13)
As predicted the Zulu LB/Leader pair perish.

And the Pillaging has Begun! Already the Zulu empire is split in half by land. :)

We could get Metallurgy in 13 turns at max sci, but I'll leave a full treasury to the next person.

690 AD (14)
We make landfall in the East, again putting the Army on a hill.

Whack invading LB from the Zulus. The red-lined Musket will live another day.

We are now 2nd in population.

Hmmm ... just now noticing that the Mayans have already been picked fairly clean.

700 AD (15)
Finally smite that Musket and smack another LB.

Sword army is assembled in Mayan territory. AC army is fortified in Zulu territory. Wasn't going to chance attacking anything, they'll move next turn.

Final Notes:
Next player can probably turn research back on. We have three cities that are able to build military, so I doubt we need much more cash for infra-rushing. I'd leave some of the coastal corrupt cities building boats, we're going to need a bunch.

Next player also gets to enjoy a few border expansions that should make micro easier.

I wasn't at all concerned with the Zulu cities on our shores. They are only useful for draining Shaka's treasury and providing leader fodder. Once we start seriously producing Knights (or Cavs) they'll be easy to be rid of.

Red circles are our Armies. You can see that in addition to all the other breaks we got, the Zulu have a terrible shape to their empire. Zimbabwe must be north in the fog.

I don't see either of these clowns getting to Infantry.

This looks extremely promising. Looks as though some impis have visited the Mayan infrastructure. The Zulu must have some better lands because they were ahead of us in land.
Great job getting the armies over. This should start steamrolling into a win pretty quickly.

I now officially declare this game won :D. I don't think we could have gotten this far if Greebley didn't handle the early game so well. Thanks to him, we defended against the initial onslaught of Sid units and even razed the Russian's 4th city :D.

Well, there's a few things that made this possible:

(1) The Zulu and Mayans appear to have been at war since before we met them. Everyone was playing AW this time around! :lol: That meant we could go 1-on-1 with the Russians on our continent, and once the AI blows their free units they can never keep their forces together sufficiently to make their numbers effective. A subtle benefit to sharing a continent with an AI was Cathy never built any infrastructure, so she stayed as dumb as we were. Trickles of Archers aren't going to accomplish much at all.

(2) No one besides us could keep resources connected. We easily could have had to fend off Zulu and Mayan Knights (they've had the tech for a while), but their home land mass apparently contains no Horses or Iron.

(3) The AI ignoring Lit, allowing us to trade 400 shields for 14 techs.

(4) We had both the larger and better shaped continent. Shaka has a lot of cities, but almost all of them are crap because of distance corruption.

If we have some strong leader-luck in the next 20 turns, this may not make the IA. :eek: Neither the Zulu or Mayans will have any roads left and their research will crash-and-burn.

Very nice. As long as we can keep two pillaging armies across the pond this baby is done.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/fat_lady_sining.jpg

Great work at getting the armies across the pond :hammer:

I agree with all the benefits listed above. For the start, this was my ninth attempt with Sumeria sharing a continent and by far my best start. It is the first start I really used the strategy of having the Enkidu hover near AI cities to supress workers which seemed very effective. It was actually better to start nearer the AI because of this.

The AI ignoring the GLib was really suprising. We could have started it earlier, but I thought "Whats the point?" I was clearly wrong.

Anyway, I got it. I will continue the pillage and work at getting cannon and Cavalry. I think that is the next step.

Congrats on the (pending) win. Taking out Russia on the shared continent was impressive.

Arathorn

It is the first start I really used the strategy of having the Enkidu hover near AI cities to supress workers which seemed very effective. It was actually better to start nearer the AI because of this.


Excellent Strategy, and well played in Greebley's First 30 Turns (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2030646&postcount=15):hatsoff:

Congrats on the (pending) win. Taking out Russia on the shared continent was impressive.

Thanks very much. :)

I suppose we'll have to try a continents small map as Sumer now. :D

Though this is not over I am really happy my poor Lagash city placement did not mess this game up. I was grumpy for a couple days after that bit o' :smoke:

Though this is not over I am really happy my poor Lagash city placement did not mess this game up.

Oh, Don't Worry. I'm not going to let you forget that anytime soon. :lol:

Oh, Don't Worry. I'm not going to let you forget that anytime soon. :lol:

And he wonders why we scheme behind his back to saddle him with anarchy. :D

BTW - T_McC you are up in the train wreck.

Preturn: Move last few units.

IBT: A musket and 2 longbow land.

710 AD: Attack and raze the Zulu town. Nearly lose the archer army to an Impi - lost about 10 hp. On our continent.
Attack the musket with a knight doing no damage. There is nothing else in the area to attack with.

IBT: The longbow kill two of our Enkidu

720 AD: Still can't kill the Musket

IBT: Another Enkidu is killed by the longbows.

730 AD: Finally kill the musket. The longbow die easily. Settle Susa where the old Zulu town was.

IBT: No landings.

740 AD: An assault force on Zulu horses takes boards a boat.

IBT: No Landings

750 AD: Upgrade some horsemen.

IBT: No Landings

760 AD: Land to threaten a Zulu city.

780 AD: I pillage the Zulu horses

IBT: Large landing. Get Metallurgy an start Mil Trad.

790 AD: We don't have enough artillery units to handle these without losing knights... I dont attack

IBT: The Longbows split from the Muskets

800 AD: Just in time too. They now have Mil Tradition. Attack a
Attack the Muskets and Longbows and do pretty pathetically. One longbow retreats a ACav and defeats a Enkidu and will probably kill the ACav next turn.

Notes:
I went full bore on research - Mil Trad in 18.

Pillaging is going well.

We really could use rails. I am unsure if we will be able to mount an offensive before that due to needing so many units to defend ourselves. I would keep researching to the industrial age.

Probably played quicker than I should have. You may want to MM.

Here is a silly map of how things are:

Freaky...can we see the real map though? It's hard to tell what's what in that one.

Edit: Oh, and I got it.

Ok, I guess.......

The MM has to really be looked at. Particularly the use (or absence) of specialists in all of our hopelessly corrupt towns. A quick spin through reduced the ETA for Mil. Trad from 18 turns to 10.

Next player should also examine whether we really want to be mining some of the tiles we currently are. It may be a bit early to prepare for Communism, outlying cities are more productive with excess food and specialists rather than inevitably corrupted shields. :)

The MM has to really be looked at. Particularly the use (or absence) of specialists in all of our hopelessly corrupt towns. A quick spin through reduced the ETA for Mil. Trad from 18 turns to 10.

Next player should also examine whether we really want to be mining some of the tiles we currently are. It may be a bit early to prepare for Communism, outlying cities are more productive with excess food and specialists rather than inevitably corrupted shields. :)

Second that. Farm specialists in the corrupt cities so we can get some benefit from these towns.

Sounds like we are in a holding pattern until we get to MT. Pillage the daylights out of the AI and we'll see the steady stream of LBs for leader fishing. At least until they get to rifles.

I can't tell from the map, but it appears we do not yet have a city on the other continent. That's the fastest way to end landings on our shores, but of course we need to bring a stack of cats & some muskets to defend a city (on a hill with walls) over there. Nice leader fishing opportunities for us :) over there. Since we'll have the AI pillaged, we'll only face slow moving units we can bomb & kill from the hill top. If you do build a city over there, be sure to bring a worker you can disband to allow for the rushing of walls @ 1/2 price on the turn you found the city. If we don't have enough galleys to bring the city party over in one trip, park units under an army while you go back & fetch the rest of the units you'll need to protect the new city.

End game in this one will be similar to the Diety game. Couple of cavalry armies with a stack of 15 or so cannon methodically bombing & taking down AI cities. We'll be up against a bunch of rifles by the time we get to this stage.

Good luck Yom. :goodjob:

I'm going to be pretty busy today, so if you guys don't mind, I'll play this tomorrow.

I'm going to be pretty busy today, so if you guys don't mind, I'll play this tomorrow.

Okay. FYI to all I'm out until Monday night.

The reason we weren't on specialists was to grow the towns. We will be able to get more specialists if we don't totally kill growth.

Mil Tradition might be important enough to stop growth... not sure, but I feel we need to go all the way to rails before we will get anywhere and Bigger towns will mean more scientists in the long run.

So go ahead and make some scientists, but don't kill our growth of those towns doing so (note this is only for towns that have grasslands - towns without don't benefit from growth so much).

I concur with Greebley. It takes time to go through them all but I usually juggle the slow growth town scientists until the difference of one scientist changes the turn count of the research. Then I decide on growth/taxmen in the balance of potential specialist towns.

It looks like I couldn't find time to play today either (school's about to start and I'm pretty busy with my job and college class that I'm taking and Cross Country). Normally I would just ask for a skip/swap, but since Handy's out till Monday, I'll play Saturday if no one has any objections. I took a peek at the save, and the situation isn't too bad. I'd rather we stay on the offensive, but I believe we can handle the landings.

Our corrupt cities aren't reall over-mined either. There are a few clusters of mines by Orenburg and Kua, but that's it. What we really need is more workers because we lack basic infrastructure in certain places (as in roads, irrigation, mines). The core is okay on development, but our corrupt cities aren't well roaded and lack more than a few tiles of irrigation.

Though I did find a gem :D (you'll have to wait until I'm done playing though).

Turn 0 - Turn 2. I lost the report for these turns, but I defeat the
invaders as well as a new drop-off from the Zulu. Time to MT is
dropped from 18 to 11 turns. Unfortunately, the Zulu saltpeter is
defended by a Musketman and a Longbow and our AC army is cut
off from the rest of the continent by a number of Musketmen and
Longbowmen.

Turn 3 - Not much.

IBT - Our musketman defends flawlessly against a longbowman
on the Zulu's Horse Island. The Zulu also foolishly withdraw from
their saltpeter tile. Bye bye musketmen.

Turn 4 - More pillaging and infrastructure building.

IBT - The Zulus drop off 2 musketmen and 1 longbow. This
should be their last musketman landing.
Heroic Epic completes.

Turn 5 - Our newly-produced cannon injures a vet musket.
A vet knight takes out 1 Musketman. We lose 1 knight after
redlining a musket, but we take out the redlined musketman and
longbow with 2 more knights.

Saltpeter pillaged.

Turn 6 - Again, not much.

IBT - The Zulu drop off 1 longbow and 1 musket.

Turn 7 - Our artillery goes 2/2 and we kill both offending units.
Still no promotions though, this is unusual :confused:.

IBT - The Zulu drop off 2 Longbows and 2 Musketmen. Once
again, on the tile right next to Ur. This is slowing down the
prebuild, so I'm gonna camp a unit on the square once I clear out
the new batch.

Turn 8 - Artillery goes 1/2. First knight retreats without doing any
damage. As does the second :mad:. The third wins, redlining. The
4th and 5th win. Still no promotions, though.

Turn 9 - Pillaging... MT due in 2.

IBT - The Zulu drop off the Motherload. Damn the proximity of
that island!
In other News, the Mayans are itching for a fight and move their
caravel into our bay.

Turn 10 - The amount of troops isn't that bad, but after 3 straight
landings, it gets hard to deal with. There's no way we'll get rid of
all the troops this turn.
Our artillery goes 2/2. Our Archer army loses 1/2 of its hp but it
defeats the first musket. A knight takes out the 2nd. What
followed is the greatest massacre of all time (at least, in this
game's timeline regarding Zulu invaders). Our knights tore
through their longbows like butter. Too bad they don't have blitz.
With our last possible attack (aside from 1 Vet Enkidu) our
Archer Army shows those Zulus that Technological advancement
isn't the same as military prowess and defeated its more advanced
counterpart flawlessly.

Our AC army finds the Zulus trying to rebuild their roads, but
can't quite reach the perpetrating worker. I lower the research rate
10% and we still get MT next turn.

My successor will get to start an offensive. I've been starting some
irrigation in the fringe cities and chopped a few plains forests to
hurry their courthouses. I assumed that all of the caravels were for
the assault of the main island that will come with Cavalry. They
could be used to sink ships before they land their units, but they
are ill-equipped to do that as they only have 1 attack as opposed to
their 2 defense. Nevertheless, I left my successor with an
unmoved Caravel that can sink a Mayan Caravel in our bay. It
might be easier to simply fight off the units it lands (the mayans
lack saltpeter and iron), but that area of our empire is not very
well defended.

Though MT is due next turn, do not get rid of any scientists this
turn. I purposely hired 1 more scientist than needed to get MT
next turn because we will lose a scientist due to a worker being
built in the interturn. I'm know that science is calculated before
production, but I don't want to take the chance and delay MT
another turn. I would also cycle through the cities once MT comes
in so that we can switch some cities to cavs. Isin will build a
knight on the interturn if it is not manually upgraded to a Cavalry.


I'm sure my successor will be able to MM our cities better than I
have. I've been gradually moving more workers to the fringe, but
the majority are still in our core.
Finally, Akshak has a chance at being semi-productive, unlike
some other fringe cities. It produces 2 shields right now, but with
an aqueduct, harbor and some worker-turns, it can get up to 6+ spt
and 15 uncorrupted commerce (more with a courthouse).
BTW, here's that gem.

Solid progress.

Handy is up, but he's not going to be around until Tuesday. If Slinger can pick it up and play before Monday night, I think he should.

After MT comes in, I agree with Greebley's general idea that we should let our fringe cities grow. I'm not sure how many Knights we have, but maybe run max cash until we have enough money to upgrade all of our Knights, then put a good effort towards Physics/Magnetism. The next thing we need are Galleons. While we're doing this we could run max food in the outlying cities with the hope we can pull extra scientists once they max out on pop.

That Knight build should auto-upgrade to a Cav on the IT. I believe the tech is discovered before the production cycle, and the game auto-upgrades build orders with discovery of any technology.

I'm pretty sure the auto-upgrade happens the turn after the tech is discovered, but I don't want to spend another 30 gold upgrading the knight in case we're wrong.

I regret to inform everyone that due to my breakup I won't be able to play anymore until I can get an internet connection where I will be moving to. Sorry all, I'll miss this.

I regret to inform everyone that due to my breakup I won't be able to play anymore until I can get an internet connection where I will be moving to. Sorry all, I'll miss this.

Not too sure what this is all about, but it sounds ungood. :(
I hope things work out for Slinger and he can get a hookup soon.

I got back early, so I got it.

Our culture stinks, so it will be a raze-o-rama for us.
Caravel will not attack since the galley is fully healed. The caravel is very valuable as a troop transport.

IBT
MT – Physics (lone scientist while we upgrade knights.)
Bad-Time & Isin both get knights builds switch to cav before they compete on the IBT.

Turn 1 910 ad
Upgrade a couple of knights to cavalry.
Switch scientists back to farmers to grow the cities, or to tax-babes (except for 1 lone scientist). +112 gpt. We have 4 knights, 3 horsemen & 4 cats to upgrade.
Moving the galley to Sumer so it can be upgraded.
Pillage a little bit.
Ur has extra food so I’ll go mine a mountain & mine over irrigated grass there.

IBT
Bad-time – cavalry – cavalry
Kuara – caravel – harbor
Isin – cav – cav
Longbow dropped near Kish

Turn 2 920
Elite horse offs the LB, but no leader.
Acav army has nothing left to pillage.
Pulling together some forces to raze the Zulu island paradise. Slaves are good, and I'm afraid we can’t hold those cites.
I’m shadowing a Zulu convoy with a couple of cavs.
We are #1 in Mfg. Goods.

IBT

Turn 3 930
All knights are now upgraded. We have 8 cavalry – and the Sids have none. :lol:
Too bad we can’t build EW’s for police.

IBT
Sumer – cav – cav
Lagash – Market – Cav
Agade – Aqueduct – courthouse (can chop to assist)

Turn 4 940
Zulu are spice less after pillaging. :D
St Pete gets extra food for a turn since the cavalry has 1 turn to go, then it’s back to the mountain for 10spt.
Cavalry make a move on the island and capture 3 Zulu Slaves.
Irrigating over the mines at Lagash so it can grow & work the mountains.
Isin can get to 10 spt after the marsh is cleared.

IBT
Zulu drop 3 LB and 1 musket near UR.
St Pete – cav – temple. Need to join workers here after we capture some more slaves.
Zabalam – aqueduct – courthouse. Need to Irrigate Zabalam & mine the mountains.
Kua – courthouse – cavalry
Maya begin Newton’s

Turn 5 950
Elite horse kills LB near Ur, cavalry mop up the rest of the LBs
Caravels are in Akshak.
Raze Umtata on the Zulu island netting 2 slaves and losing no cavalry. The garrison was Impi & LBs

Turn 6 960
Raze Umfolozi netting 4 workers and losing no cavalry. No promotions though. Once again only Impi on the island cities.

IBT
Maya complete Bach’s
Zulu drop units off on the mountain N of Kisurra.

Turn 7 970
Raze Tugela for 3 workers and lose a cav in the process. We finally have an elite cavalry.
I’m bringing the cavalry back home since the island is cleared. I don’t think we want to settle over there and tie up units defending those jungle-infested cities. Maybe we could build 1 city on the hill in the middle of the island.
In the battle N of Kissura we killed 3 LB and 1 Musket with no losses. The elite horse killed an LB but spawned no leader.
We need an army and a bunch of cannon before we can attack the other continent.
The only remaining upgrades are the elite horse and a cat, so research is back on for physics in 12 +0gpt.
BTW – I switched the pentagon to the Military Academy in Ur, which is due in 8 turns. We may build an army before we can get one via leader.

IBT
Lots of Zulu ships in our far north east.

Turn 8 980
Join a worker to St Pete.
Kish – cav – cav
Magadan – library – court

Turn 9 990
Worker shuffle
I’m putting together some cavalry & cannon to go take a peek at the other Zulu island that has three cities. If it is just Impis we can take it. If you see muskets or pikes in cities over size 6 I’d wait. We can’t do much on the other main landmass until we get an army & more cannon. After temples complete in St Pete & Isin we can build cannon there.

IBT
Isin – temple – cannon
Zulu start Smith’s

Turn 10
Cannon & cav set sail to the second zulu island.
worker shuffle.
Not much else.

Notes:
Turned down science a bit so we can upgrade the galley & cat. We get physics in 10 +30gpt instead of in 8 +0gpt. Magnetism will let us swap the Sword army with the Acav army. There are a lot more tiles than the sword army can keep up with. The Acav army is bored with no tiles left to pillage in the smaller land mass it occupies.
Sumer, Lagash are a good candidates to join workers to.
Bad-Time needs irrigation over a mine so it can grow. I MM’d to get over 10spt for cavalry.
You are set up to land on the other Zulu island next turn with 3 cannon & 6 cavalry.
Sword army needs to pillage Zulu saltpeter next turn.
Workers N of Der should are headed to chop Zabalam’s forest.
There are 2 Zulu caravels N of Kissura. I placed workers on the mountains N of Kisurra to deny the AI the chance to land there. They can build roads or something. We should fortify a slave on these & other sea-side mountains to deny the AI the defensive landing bonus they crave.
Maya have Galleons and are industrial I think. Maya did not land a single unit on our shores during these 10 turns. Zulu are landing muskets & LBs, which could do some damage to cavalry from a mountain.

Handy
T_McC is up
Greebley
Barbslinger
Yom

Sorry to hear that Barslinger. Best of luck though.

Sounds like a good turn Handy. We may want to keep a few troops on islands to kill settler pairs that land. (3 Cav if we can afford it).

I got it and should be able to play tonight. I'm amazed Smoke is industrial, given that he is about 6cc'ing with no roads.

I'm more than a little bit tempted to send those boats to the Zulu homeland. Might as well go after the big game. :) [Plus, I think 3 out of 4 cities on that island are built on Hills.]

I got it and should be able to play tonight. I'm amazed Smoke is industrial, given that he is about 6cc'ing with no roads.

I'm more than a little bit tempted to send those boats to the Zulu homeland. Might as well go after the big game. :) [Plus, I think 3 out of 4 cities on that island are built on Hills.]

That's not a bad idea. You can cover the cavalry & cannon with an army on the other continent.

HNDY05b - Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-changes!

1000 AD (0)
MM a bunch and knock two turns off of Physics. We'll see which way the wind blows me in a couple of turns vis a vis science vs. growth.

1010 AD (1)
Zulu land 3 LB's and a Musket. Dismiss that without loss. Start to assemble a 4th boat full of Cavs to ship to Zululand.

1020 AD (2)
Now it's an LB, Musket, and MDI. Lose a Cav clearing out that crap.

1030 AD (3)
The Zulu had refounded Tugela on the medium island. Had.

Another 3 Cavs set sail to put a real serious part in Shaka's hair.

1040 AD (4)
Complete the Military Academy.

Shaka is starting to improve his lands again, AC army slides down to put a stop to that. Sword Army is re-doing the Mayans.

1050 AD (5)
Major Strategic Point! Swazi is occupying a 1-tile island. We will win via Domination. As such, will ship newly-built units to large island and colonize for ourselves.

1060 AD (6)
Shaka-la hits the IA. We complete two settlers and a Library to assist the domination push.

1070 AD (7)
Start attacking Ulundi. Three Cannons hit, damaging 3 Muskets. AC Army whacks a 4/4 Musket, revealing another. We lose three Cavs on the attack, but raze the city (and the Colossus).

The Mayans are doing a terrific job of accidentally protecting their roads. They have units fortified everywhere.

1080 AD (8)
Physics comes in. Magnetism in 17 with just scientists. I'll use some cash to rush libraries in outlying towns. If we were serious about it, we could get Magnetism in 9 turns.

Injured Cavalry are beating their way back to the island, to rendezvous with the Settlers from our core.

Rush three Libraries.

1090 AD (9)
Rush another Library, land a Settler on the Island and have another to follow next turn.

1100 AD (10)
Found Kutallu on the island.

Zulu drop off an Elite LB, disposed of by Elite Horse.

Final Notes:
We are at 43/52 for Domination. The population goal is irrelevant since we can just burn our way to 67%. I think the land goal is feasible through filling the two islands and capturing New Zimbabwe.

Greebley gets to spend the money this turn. I can see 1-3 more libraries worth rushing, and then we have a decision to make. My thoughts are to finish Magnetism and shut research off. We then use the money to cash-rush Settlers, culture, and units. It is a long way to Steam and/or Communism, even if we are Scientific. [We also have to research Banking somewhere in here.] I'm not sure we need Rifles, but we could use a Cav army. The other use for cash is to rush-build an Army in Ur.

There may be a couple of workers still on go-to on the inherited IT. Also, Handy has a few on Auto-Clear Wetlands. I think. If you really care you can probably corral those guys. The AC army has a few Cannons and Zulu slaves hiding under it. The Caravels are running a shuttle between there and the large island, so you can pick all those move-1 units up in a couple of turns.

I suspect I'll get this back, but not twice.

Here's the scene. The offending Swazi is circled in blue.

The red circle is a stack with a settler. I suggest to settle on that spot.

If we also settle the red and blue dots, I think we cover the entire island
in the fewest number of cities.

Nice job. :D Getting rid of that choke city is a big plus. Should be all downhill from here.

]Also, Handy has a few on Auto-Clear Wetlands. I didn't do it on purpose. I did Shift-C, but I thought that only made them clear the tile they were on. :confused: I never intentinally automate workers in SG's.

Handy
T_McC
Greebley is up
Barbslinger - come back soon.
Yom

Quite Possibly Unwinnable Zulu Pangaea AWD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=99220)

Yeah, Zulu Tiny Pangaea AWD. Demi God seemed like a cop out. Just had to try Greebley's pillage early & harass workers strategy. Impis may be too expensive to pull this off, but it sounded like a nice little challenge.

If you do not want in, let me know. I saved you all a spot & put Slinger last in the hope he is back online by the time we get to him.

Early: The Mayans have rifles. They also attack our sword army with a Crusader and win and start sinking our boats including one with a settler, Cavalry and cannon on it (3 boats total are sank)

In response I speed up magnetism. We now have noone to pillage the Mayans who are getting stronger and need to get the armies across.

Mid: First Landing in 1180 - Lose Cavalry attacking an Impi. I destroy a Zulu town with some cav and the Army. The Army does badly vs a damaged Musket though.

Late:
1190 AD: Several very large landing parties that will not be easy to deal with.
Our Cannon go 0/4 vs Mayan rifles, so I decide to defend rather than attack.
Another stack is destroyed with difficulty

1200 AD: More landings. I destroy one landing party again with difficulty and try to guard a town from the Mayan force (its crusader died by attacking). I don't attack

Notes: I strongly recommend continuing our research. We are as close as 2 techs from steam power and could get it in as little at 22 turns with luck. I think steam is the single most important tech in AW. We can defend everywhere with a single force and nearly double the production of our cities.

In the meantime, our home defense is too weak. I would concentrate on that for a while - the AI has started shipping across units again.

Our army is badly injured from the city attack. It is trying to heal but may be killed. We can now bring other armies across if we so desire.

I would start the Pentagon if we get a chance.

I think the Mayans and Zulu are finally at peace and the game got harder.

Here is the map:

Starting to sound a little hairy, but we are now at 52/55 for domination.

Although we aren't paying unit support I would think about merging a few of our 22 native workers. Ur and St. Petes could take 3 between them. It would be a boost to our economy, and we're really just waiting around for rails, which we may never see.

Next leader (Yom) should take a hard look at specialists. We have a few cities that are maxed out in size due to missing aqueducts. I think the time for Banking can be reduced by 2 turns just by doing that.

Otherwise have to agree that a round of homeland defense is warranted. The cheapest thing we can build right now is an MDI. Not a bad unit for homeland use.

I'm shocked that the Sword Army got attacked. The Mayans had plenty of opportunity to attack on my turns. Did it first get damaged attacking a city? 'Cause those are really lousy odds for the AI to attack into.

Maybe we should play defense until rails come in. Can't afford to allow the AI to build roads & mines again. Keep those tiles pillaged.

Defense is good, but hopefully we can soon go back on offense vs. the Zulu. A single Cav Army can probably come close to clearing out the southern island, and if we re-settle it we should hit the domination limits. We will have at least 1 Cav army in the next 20 turns. We could do an army every 10 turns (without leaders) if we were running all cash. I don't advocate that now, but when we inevitably pull Medicine as our free tech it might be something to consider.

Major Strategic Point! Swazi is occupying a 1-tile island. We will win via Domination. As such, will ship newly-built units to large island and colonize for ourselves.

:mad: Damnit! Conquest victories are so much more legitimate!

I see that I'm up, but I cannot realistically get it for a while. If you are willing to wait 2-3 days (not including today), then I'll get it though. Otherwise, skip me and finish the game. School just started and I haven't gotten settled in yet.

I was down 3 or so hp due to an attack on a longbow that was in the way. Not sure if that is why it attacked though.

The problem I see is that we won't be able to get to 66% without taking some land on the other continent, and I am not sure we will be able to do so and defend our lands without a bunch more troops or Rails so we can ship across units.

I think we should try taking the last Zulu island in the hopes we don't need their continent, but also keep up research to make sure if we do that we will be able to get it.

If we only need a small part of the continent, then it might be possible to get to 66% without a major fight. Any more and we will have to face the Mayan and Zulu forces. They may be small if the Zulu and Mayan hurt one another by enough, but then again we could easily be talking of something like 30 to 50 units or more.

I'd be surprised if we needed to hit anything on the other continent. We only need another 15%, and we gained 9% on your turns with three settlements and about 5 border expansions. We still have border expansions to come from all of the island cities as well as 3-4 of cities on our continent. Then we could hit the second Zulu island and plant 3-4 cities, and if that's not enough they have a two-tile island city we can capture. We'd only have to delay research by 3-4 turns to scrape together enough money to rush the island libraries, so it's not really an either-or.

I see that I'm up, but I cannot realistically get it for a while. If you are willing to wait 2-3 days (not including today), then I'll get it though. Otherwise, skip me and finish the game. School just started and I haven't gotten settled in yet.

Slinger is out :( , so I'll swap with Yom since I can get to it. That way Yom still gets to play but we can keep things moving along.

You might be right TMcC. I certainly have no problems with saving to rush some libraries.

We may want to wait to do the rushing when we are closer to taking the final island. Rushing now just costs more cash. We are currently at +29 gpt which will give us some cash; we can lower science later if we wish.

Remember we can also use units to rush the libraries if short on cash. If we are going to get the win without attacking the main island, we can disband some cav which gets us 1/2 a library or so.

So I wouldn't lower science right now (or raise it either). We should have enough units and cash when the time comes.

I pretty much agree with Greebley. I shadowed a couple of turns last night and I think we can get Banking in 7-8 turns while only running a small deficit for the final 3-4. So we could research as hard as we can towards Banking, then set research to 0% to accumulate cash to rush libraries. While we're running 0% science, all specialists should be scientists to start knocking turns off of ToG. We get much better value from 3 beakers than from 2 gold.

By the time we discover Banking it will cost ~400 gold to rush the 4 Libraries. I believe we can accumulate that much in 4 turns of 0% science. (And I think more than 1/2 our science comes from specialists, so it's really only costing us 2 turns of research.)

I'm not sure we'll hit the point where we want to disband Cavalry to rush buildings. I think we can make 80 gold a lot more easily than build a Cavalry.

Remember we are scientific. We have a 1/3 chance of getting Steam Power for free and 1/3 chance of getting Nationalism (rifles) for free. Both would be very helpful if we do need a town or two on the other continent. Rifles would give us defense 6+ vs attack 4; steam power frees up all our units on defense.

The advantage of troops is that they already exist. We can only get a certain amount per turn in cash, but have enough troops right now to build all the libs we need. We only want to do this though if it pushes us over the 66% otherwise we need the troops (and the tech for that matter).

Lets upgrade some boats too. It would be nice to be able to move around our armies.

We haven't started the pentagon yet. Not sure if we wouldn't prefer more troops though.

Pre Turn
Hire specialists in size 6 cities with no aqueducts and extra food.
Move tiles in the corrupt cities to max food to speed population growth. I’ll check each turn, if we can pull 2spt I’ll go that route to speed up library builds.
Fix Ur so it grows, check that, I’ll join a worker.
Got us to banking in 9 +35gpt

IBT
That worked out well.
I moved the caravels & fortified them with the last move next to an AI galleon. Galleon attacked & lost.
Muskets beat LBs on defense so we lost nothing.
St Pete – musket - cav

Turn 1 1210
Cav beats bombarded musket.

IBT
A few AI land on the island. This is okay. We have a few cannon there to deal with these guys.

Turn 2 1220
Bomb & Kill a rifle & spawn a leader. He will go in a caravan to the other island to kick some booty with a few empty fortified caravels as protection.
BTW – the Acav Army lasted through the IBT so it can pillage again.

IBT
Zulu build Newton’s

Turn 3 1230
A worker is placed on each jungle tile to prevent the Ai from landing there. This forces them to the clear tiles with roads.

Turn 4 1240
The army is on the way to the island after picking up the main continent’s cavalry & cannon. Pillaging army is alone on the main continent now.

IBT
Not sure why all the landings are on the island we own, but that’s where they are coming. Mostly Rifles and LBs

Turn 5 1250

IBT
Lose a musket on the island to LB attack.
Island residents need a harbor for happiness.
Turn 6 1255 Zulu town bites the dust on the island.

Turn 7 1260
Rush 3 libraries. Banking in 2 +60gpt for 2 turns, then back up for Magnetism.

Turn 8 1265
Rush another library
Banking in 1 turn, slider turned down.

Turn 9 1270
TOG in 9 turns +31 GPT

Turn 10 1275
Not pushing the army on the island since it is against rifles in a size 8 city. More cannon are on the way to support the army. We need to keep the cav army health bar in the green zone.

Notes:
Settler & musket are in Yekat… Not sure we are ready to found on that island yet. The Acav army saw a ton of Mayan rifles heading to troop ships.
ToG in 8 +34 GPT with 72 in the bank.
We are at 52/59 with some border expansions due in the next couple of turns.
There are a couple of settlers are in process you can rush when we get the island cleared and are ready.
Another army is due in 7 more turns.
Not many recent landings, so expect a bunch of units soon.
I joined several workers to make cities bigger.
Ships with cannon are on the way to assist the army.
Next leader may want to upgrade some caravel to Galleons. We lost 1 ship in transit (nothing was on board.)
When I shipped units, I saved the last move to fortify the ships. I think it deterred some attacks.
Remember, 3-cav armies fit in a Galleon, 4-cav armies don’t. ;)
Sorry about the riot at Orenburg. :blush:
Irrigate Lagash & we can work another mountain.
The two libraries in process won’t pick up many tiles, so rushing seemed like a waste of money. No reason to hurry these now.

Well, this is coming to a close.

Do we want another Army, or do we want the Pentagon? Being able to add a 4th Cav to the army would bump the attack by 2 points in addition to adding HP. On the flip side we can't transport 4-member armies, so once one is formed it's stuck.

[Just have to try something ... Yes. You can disband an existing Army and get 100 shields towards the next Army build in Ur. :) Maybe we can upgrade our Archer Army.]

I'm not sure Handy mentioned it, but the Zulu have Cavalry now. What happened to the Musket we had parked on their Horses?

As usual, check the MM. We can speed ToG by at least a turn. All size 12 cities have no reason to be running surplus food, even the core cities.

Your comment on core cities is not always true TMcC. Often you lose science by making a scientist when you have banks since you often want to keep the shields and thus take off ocean squares. We don't have banks, but we also don't often gain any gold by taking them off the squares (in core cities that aren't corrupt).

I am still of the opinion we are going to have to invade the other continent to win. I also hope I am wrong....

What happened to the Musket we had parked on their Horses?

He was a victim of the Lord of the Bow.

As usual, check the MM. We can speed ToG by at least a turn. All size 12 cities have no reason to be running surplus food, even the core cities.

I didn't check each city, but in one core city I tested the GPT & science was a push working coast tile versus specialist. I guessed it was because of the multiplier effect of libraries & markets. I didn't check each city though, so Yom may want to do that. There are a couple of cities we can irrigate to allow us to work a mountain to gain an extra shield or two. Not much else for workers to do since we don't have rails yet. There is a big stack of workers I was bringing back to near the capital so they could begin rails from there.

Perhaps our coal is in the jungle on the nearby island. Maybe that's why the AI wants that island so bad.

Acav army saw a ton of units preparing to board boats, so expect some action on the homefront soon.

Who is up now?

Is it me? If so, I'll get this tomorrow or Saturday.

Who is up now?

Is it me? If so, I'll get this tomorrow or Saturday.

You are up YOM. I just swapped with you since you were busy & I was free. I's your turn now. :goodjob:

I couldn't find time for this tonight, but I'll definitely finish it tomorrow afternoon.

Skip me in here too. I don't want to hold up this game, and I have way too much homework to finish it tonight.

So TMcC is up and with me on deck.

I'll get to this tonight. Might be quick, I think I already shadowed 7 turns. :lol:

HNDY05b - You Again!?!?

Quick check to confirm I'm playing from the proper save ... OK. :thumbsup:

1275 AD (0)
MM to get ToG in 7.

Can't help but notice the Cavalry on our island. Bombard and dispose.

1280 AD (1)
4 Rifles, 6 Longbows, a Musket and a Crusader are dropped off on our island. Wake up the workers and batten down the hatches!

Also slip another couple of Cavs from the mainland to the island.

1285 AD (2)
pRNG pisses all over us on the IT, losing 3 of 5. Just for that I'll go for the worker-gang shore blockade.

More bad pRNG on our turn, dropping another couple of units and leaving a bunch of stuff exposed.

Burn Quirigua to the ground in disgust.

1290 AD (3)
We are at 54/60 for Domination.

1295 AD (4)
The pRNG giveth. 4 wins with no losses on the IT. Then Mayans land a replacement stack.

Settler heads out for Zulu island. We'll have Artillery and an Army to defend.

1300 AD (5)
Couple of leader chances but no bites.

1305 AD (6)
Zulu land some trash.

Found Dabrum on top of the Horse resource the Zulu had. :) Bit of a flip risk though :lol:

Adjust to get ToG next turn.

1310 AD (7)
It's not dull over on the island. More folks land. Me need Army.

ToG is in, just for giggles I go "Big Picture" and pick Steam. Subliminal messages anyone ....

Woo-hoo! It bought. Research slammed on Ironclads.

The Mayans have coal, but they can't even keep roads built. The Zulu have none. We have two.

Ur builds Army, headed for a Galleon and our Island. Once we pop a leader there it can head for the Zulu continent.

1315 AD (8)
Kill some more Zulus, and that window of opportunity is closed as the Cav Army is on the scene.

The Zulu island is slow going because our Cannoneers suck.

1320 AD (9)
LB defeats vet Musket fortified on a Hill behind Walls.

Another 13 units land on our Island.

Kill 5 Zulu.

Burn Mpondo to the ground and the 2nd island is cleared.

1325 AD (10)
Lose a Cannon (temporarily), get pillaged, win two on IT.

Get Cannon back and kill another couple of Mayans.

Final Notes:
It should stay busy on our island. If desired, a couple more Cavs can be ferried across. I would just leave the Armies where they are until we get another. I still believe that by fully colonizing that second island we'll win the game. That Hill with the Horse was a less-than-inspired choice of where to start the colonizing, but what are you gonna do?

I don't expect this to get back to me unless we are only running 3 players. We are at 56/62 for Domination.

Picture of what's happening.

Sounds good. Best I can tell, Greebley is up

Handy
T_McC
Greebley
Barbslinger
Yom

Ok, I got it. I don't see the island being worth 10% of the land area - do we really have a lot of other coastal squares to gain? In any case, we will be close enough to be able to build a town or two on the other continent and win (we don't have to hold them long).

I will also grab the size 3 island. It is actually worth a decent amount since coastal squares are included in the count.

Don't forget that in the near future we also have 2nd border expansions to come from our coastal cities. With Libraries it only takes 33 turns to get to the 100 level in culture, so the next player should see 2nd expansions from libraries I rushed on my previous turn.

Having said that, I agree we will probably need a city or two to break out from 64/65% land.

A second border expansion won't add many coastal squares though. IIRC, sea (and ocean) squares don't count. So the question is how many squares that "count" with that expansion add?

I am guessing the number is fairly small as we own most coast on the first expansion.

TMcC, I am not seeing the save file.

TMcC, I am not seeing the save file.

Of course you're not. I didn't upload it. :rolleyes:

I can do that tonight.

Sounds good. I was planning on playing toninght at 9pm eastern time (by sheer coincidence 9pm is my son's bedtime. Before then it will be dinosaurs stomping on cars and the fix-it guy to the rescue (unless the cars decide to hide) :D )

Let's try this again ...

I didn't really keep notes of my turn. It was very straight forward. We were able to handle all landings as they occurred. I mostly built up our resources.

Notes:
We are at 64% of domination. I got civassist which told me we need 32 more squares. Rush the Library at New Kish for 7 of those. Expansions elsewhere will give us only 3 more so we need 22 squares on the mainland or 3 towns built. We could try 3 (or 4 for safety) landing parties and build 3 towns. We would have to hold off the enemy for 2 turns. Might be very doable and the fastest.

Otherwise we can do a normal invasion.

I had science at 0. Being able to build rifles seemed lower priority to me to grabbing rushing libs and even updating our Enkidu's - we build too slowly to get many of rifles . I would have gone for factories; we are low on shields. Even then factories would come in too late to really matter. I hope we didn't choose Nationalism to try to get to communism - that is completely pointless. No way do will it be worth it to change governments and suffer Anarchy - it would just slow the game. Besides communism wouldn't even help much with our shields being so low (our outlying towns would get 4 -7 shields instead of 1 or 2) and our outlying towns are missing so many basic buildings.

No map, but we completely own all islands and only the other continent (and the size 1 island) are not ours.

Well, Nationalism would also have allowed us to Mobilize and bump our 5-6 core cities up to 15-20 spt. Would only have been useful to build a landing party to accompany a pack of settlers. Drafting might also have been useful.

But if we're at 64% for Domination the next player will end it regardless, cash is more important for speeding the end-game than a tech.

If we mobilized we couldn't build libraries at all and the game would have taken longer (since we wouldn't have cash to rush the libs we would have been farther from domination). This close to the end mobilizing would slow down the game, not speed it up.

I think no research is the fastest win.

Don't forget to rus the Lib in New Kish!

Handy
T_McC
Greebley
Barbslinger - come back soon :)
Yom is UP

AWS :king: - already under done & won in my signature.

You guys are awesome. :goodjob:

I got it :king:.

I lost the report on turns 0, 1 and 2.

IBT - The Zulu drop off 4 riflemen and 2 Longbows by Ur and 1
Longbow and 1 Rifleman on the Island by the Mayans.

Turn 3 - A newly formed cavalry army takes out the 4 riflemen
and 1 Cavalry and the Archer Army take out the longbows.

IBT - The Mayans drop off 2 Crusaders, a guerilla and a rifleman
on our island by their mainland.
Moscow riots.

Turn 4 - Take out the landing, costing us a cavalry.

IBT - Nationalism comes in and I turn off research. Do we want to
mobilize? If we do, we can't build anymore libraries and our
culture comes in at 1/2 rate. Is it worth it?

Turn 5 - Not much.

IBT - Zulu drop off 3 riflemen and a longbow.
Mayans drop off 3 guerillas and a rifleman

Turn 6 - Kill invaders, losing 1 cav, land 2 armies on Mayan
homeland.

IBT - Zulu land a rifleman. Mayans drop off 2 rifleman, 1
guerillas and a longbow.

Turn 7 - Kill invaders, pillage Mayan Iron. I'm going to try to get
Zulu cities because the mayans are pretty strong.

IBT - Zulu drop off 4 rifles.

Turn 8 - Take out rifles.

IBT - Mayans drop off 2 riflemen and 2 guerillas.

Turn 9 - Bombard and take out 1 of the new invaders.

Turn 10 - Take out one more invader and a galleon. I think I can
win in a couple turns, so I'll play this out.

IBT - The Zulu drop off 6 riflemen, an MDI and a Longbow.

Turn 11 - Getting ready to assault Tikal. It may take a couple turns
to get all our armies there.

Turn 12 - I am able to take Tikal and build a city to claim 4 more
tiles this turn. Surprisingly, I didn't need to use any of the 3 new
Cavalry armies that were about to ship out this turn. I merge a few
workers into a few of our cities to get us up to 67% and hit end
turn...

[dance] :band:

Always War Sid Tiny Continents bites the dust. :goodjob:

Wow. Congrats on a great win folks! :)

Wow, so now that's sid done, what are y'all going to do now?!

Are you going to try pangaea? :crazyeye:

Congrats! ---

Great finish guys. Wish I could have been there with you down the stretch. Things are starting to get better and I'll be moving into a condo next week out of the hotel I have been in. Hope to be back and playing soon.

Great finish guys. Wish I could have been there with you down the stretch. Things are starting to get better and I'll be moving into a condo next week out of the hotel I have been in. Hope to be back and playing soon.


Hurry Back! :goodjob:

Looking forward to your return Barbslinger :)

Congratulations guys! Great win!!

Thanks Aggie. I hope you are enjoying retired life (from civ that is). Good to see you at least are still lurking now and then :)