Always War Sid C3C 1.22 As the Sumerians [ Concurrent with HNDY05a, an AWS game as the Mayan Fighting Farmers (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95051). ]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/endless_sumerians.jpg
Sumerian Special Forces Amphibious Assault Team Member.

Another chapter in a series of Always War tiny continent maps by the Grumpy Old Men of War Always Sid. War Always :confused: Did you mean Always War? Err, no, ugh, I meant to do it that way. :mischief: GOMOWAS
HNDY04-AWD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90672)|HNDY03-AWDG (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87859)|HNDY02-AWE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=85204)


C3C 1.22 Patch
Level: Sid
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Sumeria
Continents: 70% Water
Size: Tiny
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Barbarians: Sedentary (We can use the cash)
Rivals: 3 Randomly Selected
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled. We could lose to a UN vote [if we get that far ;) ] We’ll take a win any way we can get it, but conquest or domination are preferred.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Patch: 1.22 C3C

Roster
Handy [Out until 8-1-04]
T_McC
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif
Lucky candle to light the way.


Always War Boilerplate as we play it
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies .

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Roster
Handy
T_McC <- UP
Greebley [Out 7/24 to 8/7]
Barbslinger
Yom [Out until ??]

The turn log to 2550bc is in the planning thread. If the zipped save here does not work, grab Greebley's save in the planning thread.

OK, Got it!

I'll take this one and Slinger can pick up HNDY05a.

We'll run this way:

T_McC
Barbslinger
Yom
Handy [skip until 8/1, at least]
Greebley [skip until 8/7]

HNDY05b - Swingin' Sumerians

2550 BC (0)
We are in a GA, researching Masonry at break-even. We have 2 cities. No imminent danger from the Russian Archers. I can see 4 Russian cities, so I'm guessing that there isn't much south of Moscow. Would be nice to sneak another city of our own in here.

We'll see if an Elite Enkidu can pillage in peace.

IT - Elite Enkidu gets attacked, wins with 3 HP. Six Russian Spears converge on St. Petes. I don't think that is a winnable battle.

2510 BC (1)
We do pillage a tile, but will have to retreat next turn if we're not killed. That was more a defiant gesture than any great strategic thought.

Ur completes Archer, goes to worker. Move a couple of EW's into position to bait attacks from the Russian Archers.

IT - Lose pillaging EW, but win three other battles. Nets us a new Elite EW.

2470 BC (2)
Ur completes worker, goes to EW. Healing EW in the East starts to explore.

IT - Mayans complete Pyramids.

2430 BC (3)
Ur: EW --> Settler.

Have to slow research on Masonry.

2390 BC (4)
Swap Ur to Archer, the settler can wait. The Russian Spears are chasing our Elite EW, who is now fortified on a Hill in neutral territory. We can move 3 Archers + 2 EW's to cover next to St. Pete next turn.

IT - Zulu complete Oracle

2350 BC (5)
Move stack next to St. Pete. Ur continues with another Archer. We need one for defensive bombard.

IT - Russian Archers move to the single combination of squares that would prevent Ur from growing this turn. :rolleyes:

2310 BC (6)
Assault on St. Pete: We lose with 2 Archers, but win with 2 Enkidu and capture the city. We now have as many cities visible as the Russians.

Feeling lucky, I attack a Russian Archer with the Elite Enkidu. Win but no leader.

2270 BC (7)
Win on IT vs. Russian Archer. St. Pete may be in trouble on the IT. We have two Enkidu defending with a single Archer cover. Three Russian Archers will attack.

IT - We win two battles and have another Elite Enkidu.

2230 BC (8)
Masonry comes in and I pick Iron Working. We're on a roll, lets get swords and really step on Cathy!

The GA ends so we may have some consolidation to do.

2190 BC (9)
GA ends, and we'll be fighting with Archers for a while still. :(

2150 BC (10)
The GA ending means no settler these turns, but next leader gets to plant another city and make us Army-eligible. Then he has to get us an MGL. :lol:

Another Russian Archer suicides against St. Petersburg.

Picture in next post. Kill ratio was only 12-3, but the Russians are starting to get spread out. I really want to get a pillager down in sight of Moscow, maybe we can get Cathy to keep whipping her capital and stop her from building many settlers.

Picture of our lands. Cathy has one city that isn't visible, but she still only has as many cities as she started with.

South of St. Pete is a lake, so don't be surprised to see Russian troops coming from that way.

The blue dot is where I was thinking about placing the next city. The intent is to be a death-trap for Russian Archers, forcing them to attack across a river onto a Hill against a city that should be able to erect Walls fairly quickly. The red dots would then be rear-line locations that wouldn't have to be defended very heavily. We need a lux, and we need more Workers.

The two units in blue circles can converge on blue dot for the founding. The settler can also take an Archer and an Enkidu from the Ur area with it. Three EW's and an Archer should get that city founded safely.

It would really be nice to be able to plant EW's on the Hill and Mountain N of Moscow. A few more victories and we may have a couple of spare Elites to put there.

Next leader can consider whipping the Walls when St. Pete grows in 3. 50/50 you kill the Russian citizen.

Might be hard to pop a leader on defense, but our Archers seem to be dieing faster than they can promote. Keep burning Russian units, and maybe try to get close enough to cities so the AI keeps whipping them down to size 1 or 2 and can't build settlers.

In case it is not apparent:

Slinger is up!

OK! Let's give this one a shot. I don't see Moscow mentioned in your summary but I'm guessing SW. Sure would love to get rid of Cathy once and for all.

Moscow is S of Novograd, on the eastern shore of that lake. Look at Greebley's log in the previous thread, you can see it there.

Best guess for where the 4th Russian city is: Right around the eastern ruins.

Take 1 away they build 2!

HNDY05b – 2550bc

Preturn – 3 archers, 8 enkidus rates us average vs. Russia. That’s a good sign. St. Petes group is thinking of moving on Novrogod in a few turns.
IT – Rax> Archer in Sumer. We kill an archer and go elite in St. Petes
[1] 2110 – Hold for this turn hoping they attack. Workers move to mine between Sumer and Ur.
[2] 2070 – Another archer dies and we pop a settler. Kill the last archer there and start moving with 3 Enki’s and 2 archers. A Russian scout is in the north.
[3] 2030 – Zulu finish colossus. Kill the scout but need a taxman in Sumer now. Russians have founded 2 new cities!
[4] 1990 – Rush the walls. Settler is in place on the hill. Ur-Enki>Archer. St. Pete’s gets a taxman after pop rush. And it killed our pop. Uhg! Adjust sliders because I would rather grow but it kills our research.
[5] 1950 – St. Petes-Walls>Rax. 2 archers heading for St. Pete’s.Those towns are pop 2 already! Attack next turn.
[6] 1910 - We destroy Novrogod at the cost of an archer and Enki. Collect 2 slaves. Hope the walls hold at St. Petes
[7] 1870 – Fortify in forest with assault crew to heal and hopefully deflect some of the attack towards St. P.
[8] 1830 –They are pop 3 now.
[9] 1790 – Win twice at St. P. No Promo. Sumer-Archer>Enki. Pulling back healed troops. 3 Enkis in St. P’s now.
[10] 1750 – Retreating a bit to collect some archers for next attack.

St. Petes will be unhappy until it grows due to the walls pop rush. They have some archers moving in so a round of defense is probably on tap. I’m wondering if the rax builds are good, they take so long and we have to get on the attack. Those shields may be better for 2 archers.

Disagree. We should be building Rax since they last the whole game. By the time you build 3-4 vet troops (even 20-shield units) I have to figure the Rax pays for itself.

If we're still just 1 city behind the Russians we're doing terrific. Establishing a defensive front and planting a couple of more cities behind us may be the way to go for now, although we're having a lot of success with burning Cathy's cities. If she can't keep her 1st ring cities alive, we should be able to hang with her in production/research until we can get some better units out in the field.

From what I saw she'll be putting out cities faster than we can burn them. And they grow fast too. Well, let's keep chugging along.

Ok, Yom is up in this one.

Handy isn't back until Sunday at least, so we can afford a leisurely pace for a short while.

I'll have a picture and a ramble later.

Well, the first problem is that Lagash is founded on the wrong spot. It was supposed to go on the tile 1S, to be on the river to get an additional defensive bonus and an extra food since we're Agricultural.

Cathy has 5 cities, we have 4. St. Pete should be more useful soon. I think it's also living down a whip Cathy gave it. That has to expire soon.

We're fine with unit support, but can always use more workers. Can we afford a n 8-10 turn period where Ur builds a Granary? I think it can easily do the 7-5 4-turn settler trick, but I'm afraid we don't have enough production to allow it that break.

Not sure where to place the next settler. Picture has a few suggestions. I'm not sure that we are strong enough to found on that Hill S. of St. Pete, but it sure would get Cathy's attention. I also think we need to secure a lux before reaching out into our 2nd ring to plant targets.

Maybe after Iron Working we head for Math?

Just get us a leader and all will be well in the world.

So ... uhhh ... anyone seen Yom?

I can play later this evening if Yom has not yet turned up. Too many chores to catch up on to play now. :(

I need a break after SGOTM3, but I'll play it tonight for sure. If Yom gets here first that's fine, I play after him. Otherwise I'll pick it up this evening (Sunday night).

I got it (10 char.).

I got it (10 char.).

Good Luck. I'll pick it up next. :goodjob:

Turn 0 - A quick overview of our lands shows that we are in good shape defensively. We are also only down the Wheel, IW, and CB.

IBT - another warrior approaches St. Petersburg.
Ur:Settler->Archer
Chichen Itza completes the Temple of Artemis.

Turn 1 - I send the settler to the relatively safe dye spot for now.

IBT - Our elite enkidu fights off an archer. A settler pair comes out of the fog West of St. Petersburg as well as another archer southeast of St. Pete's

Turn 2 - A vet enkidu fights an archer on offense and becomes elite, freeing up our 2 archers to go take care of the settler pair.

IBT - Damn, the settler pair moved onto the hill I didn't want them to go to. They'll be sure to settle and get a defensive bonus.
Sumer:Enkidu->Archer

Turn 3 - The idea of a leader is too tempting for me and I use our elite enkidus on offense to attack archers, but we get no leader. That's the last offensive attack I'll make with them for some time.

IBT - Sure enough the pair settles.
Ur:Archer->Enkidu.

Turn 4 - Kish founded by the Dyes.

IBT - An archer shows up south of our attack party.

Turn 5 - I'm leaving Smolensk alone because of its hill, but I'm going to head for the Russian Heartland. Our elite enkidu defeats a regular archer, but no leader. Perhaps I'm pressing my luck too much, but I really want a pillaging enkidu army.

IBT - Ur:Enkidu->Settler (to settle the hill S. of St. Pete's).

Turn 6 - I turn on emphasize production.

IBT - 2 Archers show up south of our raiding party.

Turn 7 - WTF? Despite emphasize production being on, the stupid governor picks a grassland tile over a plain one!
Our veteran archer loses to another veteran archer! Our other archer wins, -1hp and becoming elite in the process. I take a gamble and attack the 1/3 archer with an 3/5 enkidu and win, -2 hp, getting us the leader I was waiting for!

IBT - Unfortunately, there was more than just a spearman in Yaroslavl' and the Elite enkidu is slayed by a regular archer.

Turn 8 - An army is created in St. Pete's. Our elite archer flawlessly slays an archer but no leader. With the objective of getting an army now accomplished, the now elite archer/enkidu pair will head back to help defend the town that will be built S. of St. petersburg. I load the army with 2 vet enkidu warriors for now, to allow us to get more leaders from our 3 remaining elite enkidus.
Our veteran archer flawlessly kills another archer.

IBT - IW comes in, set research to alphabet (in 12). We may want to build the library
Sumer:Archer->Enkidu

Turn 9 - I move some archers toward the front to help in the defense of our new city. St. Pete's oppression wore off last turn, but it needs 2 units in the city to keep its one citizen happy, so it's on scientist duty for now.

IBT - Ur:Settler->Granary
Copan completes The Hanging Gardens...we really need TGL if we can get it.

Turn 10 - We're low on money, so I swap the scientist in St. Pete's to a taxman. Wow. Looks like russia wants to start expanding badly as I find an archer defending 2 settlers a bit SE of the hill.

Our best bet for TGL would probably be either Sumer or Lagash. Sumer is better equiped for it atm, but we get the advantage of not losing troop production if we build it at Lagash. I didn't notice it until now, but russia just founded a city way out east by Yakutsk, so they might have boats. The only Iron in our site, is just outside of Moscow, so we need to get that army to the front Asap and pillage Russia to the stone-age (if they aren't there already. Also, we can use the army to get 4 slaves if that russian archer doesn't move too far away from the army. Either way, I would chase it down to keep russia producing settlers (slaves) for us and not troops. Alphabet is due in 9 at 0 gpt.

Yom! You got the lucky break we were all hoping for. I think we need to load that army with another vet Enkidu when the opportunity presents itself.

Got it.

May not play tonight, we have things to discuss.

I'm not sure we should be trying to build the Great Library. It certainly helps, but it's going to be exceedingly difficult to get any of our cities (besides Ur) up to a reasonably competitive level of production. The terrain we need for a Wonder city is BG and lots of it. Until a border expansion, Lagash has 1 tile that produces food and even 1 shield without improvement. While we have Ur building a Granary and Settlers, we can't afford to take Sumer off of military.

It looks like a very defensive 10 turns ahead. We're down to 5 Archers, but we need to let Ur finish the Granary and then likely pop a settler. We'll be well under our unit support after the next city gets planted. I'm assuming we head for the Hill south of St. Petersburg. If this gets timed right, our 4 (hopefully) new Russian slaves can chop a forest to speed the Walls at the new city and provide a juicy target for Cathy.

I hope to get the Enkidu Army out and pillaging by the end of my 10. We've already accomplished one thing: Cathy has no culture besides her Palace. If we can just show the Army a few places she might just whip herself into oblivion.

I'll wait to hear others' opinions before I play. I intend to let the Walls complete at Lagash, and then probably go for Barracks (or maybe a worker). I do not believe the Great Library is a good gamble for us to take.

The Mayans already have the Hanging Gardens, ToA and Pyramids. The Zulu have The Colossus and The Oracle. All that remains in the AA are the Great Wall, the Lighthouse, MoM, and the Great Library. I expect the middle two to fall very soon. The Russians have an exclusive on the SoZ, but we're not going to let their Ivory stay hooked up. Ideally they would start the Wonder in Moscow 1 turn before we cut their supply. Let them waste the shields and give it to us for free when we eliminate them.

I have to agree with nixing the GL gambit. Even if we were playing regular Sid without the warring it is tough to pull off unless you start with alphabet. What we need is to eliminate Cathy and hopefully have some time to build some more towns and infrastructure before the AI's start all the beach landings.

I can't peek at the save @ work, but the GLib does sound like a pipe dream. One day maybe we'll try AWS with a civ that gets alphabet to start.

Let them waste the shields and give it to us for free when we eliminate them.

If we let Russia hang around will they build the SoZ for us? Would we have to let them keep 2 cities, Moscow for SoZ & 1 other city to build archers & slaves. Never tried this, but if it worked it would be pretty sweet.

I'll pick it up after you since, ugh, you kinda jumped in front of me. :lol:

I'll pick it up after you since, ugh, you kinda jumped in front of me.

Once again we get bit on the ass by having not just two SG's with the same cast of characters, but an additional SG with a subset of the usual suspects. I thought you had already played since you came back. Must have been either of the other games. :rolleyes: :lol:

Handy's up!

I fugured that's what happened. Yom, you & I are in 3 Sg's with three different orders. :crazyeye:

Go ahead if you are free. :) I can't pick it up until around 8pm central tonight.

:( You guys are right, there's no way we can get TGL. It's going to be tough to catch up in tech. At least in this game we have iron for some strong offense.

I got it and will post tonight. :D

Sulking Sumerians :(

Pre Turn
Down Alpha, Wheel, CB
1 worker in Moscow afraid to show their face.

IBT
Bummer, the 2 settlers head back towards Moscow.

Turn 1 1475
Our settler is unescorted, so an archer & EW head back for escort duty.
Army is going to pillage Moscow. I wont be able to catch those 2 settlers before they get back to Moscow.
Kish is on flat lands with a lone regular EW as a garrison, so the worker gets switched to walls. Kish is 3 tiles from Ur in stead of the usual 2 tiles. :confused:
Sumer has to hire a tax man.

IBT
Sumer – EW - worker
Lots of Ai units.
I can see 5 archers + 2 spears. Cathy is now placing settlers under the spears. :(

Turn 2 1450
St. Pete now has 2 content citizens, so I fire the scientist there.
Russia & us are both racing to the hill S of St Pete. I’ll send an EW to save us a spot.
Elite archer kills archer.
EW built in Sumer goes to Ur to act as MP.
Avoid temptation to attack the spear with the 2 EW army to try for slaves. Losing the army would be way bad for us. We need to pillage the iron.

IBT
Russia founds SW of the incense, so we will get our hill.
Archers appear to be moving toward Kish.

Turn 3 1425
Move onto the iron, pillage next turn.
Lagash is in a crappy spot. Next to mountains the AI can attack from and 1 tile away, and it's not on the river. :(

IBT
Spot the first Russian sword leaving Moscow. We’ll pillage the iron this turn.

Turn 4 1400
Pillage Iron

IBT
Lagash – walls – barracks
Sumer – worker – EW

Turn 5 1375
I selected 2spt and 1 fpt in Lagash to grow & get barracks in 20.
Off Russian archer.
Found Umma -> walls on the hill S of St. Pete
Begin pillaging of Russia.
Begin the long road to the Dyes.
There is a stack of archers in the fog heading somewhere - Kish maybe?

IBT
Umma is in trouble. The Russian sword killed our Eilte spear fortified on a hill, and there is only an archer there now. No way to quickly reinforce it.

Turn 6 1350
Move EW towards Umma just in case it holds.

IBT
Good news – the wounded Russian sword attacked the archer in Umma & lost. :)
Bad news – three archers will attack the lone archer in Umma next turn. :( Umma is in bad shape.
Ur – granary – EW ( No reason to build a settler yet since we have no escorts).
Zulu build Lighthouse.
Russia is up to 8 cities.

Turn 7 1325
Pillage
Ur has to temporarily hire a tax man since it is size 6. Crap, it’s pulling 9 spt, 1 short of 1 turn EW’s. Bumping slider to get an EW in 1 turn at a cost of 3 gold. Seems like a deal.

IBT
Umma is razed by the Russians. :( :( :(
Sumer – EW – EW
Ur – EW - settler

Turn 8 1300
Lower lux back to 20 & hire specialist in Ur.
Pillage
This is a pretty big landmass.

IBT
Alpha – math
Elite spear @ St. Pete loses to sword.

Turn 9 1275
Elite archer kills wounded sword.
St. Pete grows and has to hire a specialist
Math in 17 +1gpt
The archer stack that razed Umma has disappeared into the fog. I’ll bet they are going to the luxury @ Kish.

IBT
The archers appear near St. Pete.

Turn 10 1250
Russia is pretty well pillaged, so let’s head back to check on the iron.
Russia now has 9 cities.
Three archers can attack St. Pete next turn. It appears St. pete is the target now. That will change when we hook up the luxury in Kish.

Notes:
These turns didn’t go too well, and Russia is getting really strong with a bunch of archers roaming around. I think they could have taken out Umma even if it had 2 EW’s instead of an EW & Archer.
St. Pete is a pit we are going to dump a lot of shields down. It’s on grass, so no hill bonus, and the AI can attack from 7 different tiles and get a defensive bonus.
Better site would have been 1 tile due N? We would have a river on 3 sides, and could reinforce from either Ur or Lagash.
We need a city between Ur & Kish so we can chain units. The plains 1 NW of the fortified EW would work.
The pillaging should help some. Not much hope to go on offense until we get some cat support. Getting that ivory is going to take a huge stack of cats & archers.

The plan
We should explore up north with an EW on the off chance there is iron up there. Cats & swords might turn this around if we keep Russia pillaged. Until then, let's make sure we are well fortified. We'll soo be seeing Russia attacking with archer 6-packs.

I played last, and T_McC before me. Yom's up in SGOTM3 and HNDY05a, so I guess Slinger is up

I'm out Friday & Saturday, so if you guys want to adjust the lay order it's okay by me.

I guess my turns above were so crappy no one wants to comment on them. :shakehead

First off, I'm really sorry about the Lagash location screwup. I don't know what I was thinking. I'll try to play tonight with my fingers crossed. SID is one tough cookie.

The pillaging should alot, but the amount of archers Sid turns out is problematic. We need to hunker down and get some leaders on defense while we settle to the north. I think we may need 2 pillaging armies, then a 3rd to act as cover for cats & bows and then we can slowly take Cathy out. We can't let her hook that Iron up even for a turn after she gets to the MA or she will kick out a bunch of Pikes (and later knights).

On the bright side, this is a huge piece of land we are on.

Handy-Sid-Sumerians 1250AD
Well, thank the stars we haven’t met anyone else. The dyes will help and should happen on my turns and the settler can go for the incense. The only MM I see is in Kish to a forest to delay growth and get the walls faster. It would riot with another pop and until we get dyes I don’t need that. I also move an Enki from Lagash towards St. Petes for backup. We are going to get slammed there soon.
IT – Lose an Enki in St. Petes and defend with one, no leader.
[1] 1225 – Enki makes it to St. Petes and the new build from Sumer rotates to Ur with the Ur Enki heading to St. Petes too. Have to pause to see which way the army was pillaging. I don’t want to back track. I don’t see it in the log but I would assume coming from Moscow heading north. However, the Russian Iron has to stay gone, along with the capital disconnected, I go south. Road is finished on hill and will beging roading dyes next turn. 10g +1gpt. Here comes more St. Pete attacking. Fingers crossed.
IT – Our elite wins 3 straight losing 1 hp!. Settler in Ur goes to Enki. Walls in Kish go to Rax.
[2] 1200 – I forego the incense build for a transit town between Ur and Kish. It may get hot there soon. Roading begins on dyes with 1 wasted worker. My bad. Enki in Ur heads to Lagash.
IT – With Ur only having one archer the Archer crew at St. Petes sees a juicier target. They move that a way but an Enki will pop before they get there.
[3] 1175 - One of two archers dies to our archer. Bad-time is founded and set to walls. We look semi-secure with only 2 threats. MM between Ur and Sumer yields both growth and an Enki this IT.
IT – Dyes complete. Ur-Enki>Settler. St. Petes-Rax>Enki, Sumer-Enki>Archer. The Russians continue inland.
[4] 1150 - Kish Enki noves to hill to get archer on the flats in 2. Army will begin some pillaging next turn. He should remain a thorn I think. Money is getting tight at 9g and –2gpt. I could take a taxman in Ur but I get growth in 2. Lux is dropped and a scientist in Sumer comes aboard to get +4gpt. This also slows the archer build be 1 turn. Workers head to road to incense.
IT – We are flawless at Lagash, no promo.
[5] 1125 – I pillage once and move a E Enki back towards Lagash. Just noticed that is a sword hovering over Lagash. Workers pause on the way north to irrigate.
IT – 4hp enki loses 1hp to sword. Been lucky. That candle must be lit.
[6] 1100 – Workers head north. Pillage a mine and the Russian ivory iron was not hooked up, must have been a prior build order) and Enki gets into Lagash. Kill an archer on the St. Pete Mountain, no leader. 77% shot. Happy sauce goes up with Ur growth. 17g at –2gpt. Settler in 2 with growth per MM. With 6 archers bearing down on Lagash I send another Enki from St.Petes to Lagash. 2 archers in range this IT.
IT – The archers change gears and head back to St. Petes. Zulu complete the Gwall and a Zulu galley pops up on our west coast.
[7] 1075 –Zulu are up Wheel, CB, writing and math + who knows what else. No deals and I declare. It may be over quickly now. I move the E Enki back towards St. Petes. I have 2 Enkis hovering. Pillage the balance of Vladivostok head back towards Moscow. BTW, we are at war with Shaka. No trades unless I bust a gpt deal.
IT – Archers head back to Lagash. Zulu galley heads off to tell th boss about our indescretion. Ur completes a settler and starts an Enki.
[8] 1050 – E Enki checks back into Lagash hotel. Settler heads towards incense hill. Lux drops and we’re back at +2gpt.
IT – Get 2 kills at Lagash, no leader. Sumer-Archer>Archer. St. Petes-Enki>Enki.
[9] 1025 – Road completes to hook up incense once settler arrives. Sumer swaps to Enki. 4 enkis and an archer braced for 7 archers in Lagash. Put another Enki across the St. Pete river for possible reinforcement after IT.
IT – That was pretty rough. We lose the E Enki and only one promo on the last kill. Ur-Enki>Settler.
[10] 1000 – Use army to kill one archer losing 2 hp. He is heading back towards St. Petes to load another Enki. Settler sees some nice wheat in the north. Will found next turn. Rush the rax in Lagash for 14 shields. Should have noticed it earlier.

It is going to be reall tough when the Impi’s show up. I’m almost thinking we should have escalated the series by going to pangea after the emporer win. To tell the truth I am almost burned out on AW and Sid Meier level is not making it any easier. I have never even attempted Sid except to see how fast I could be crushed while drinking and not really paying attention. This is hard work that I don’t see working. However, having said that I reminisce back to the Nehru naysaying and will slog forward. Hey maybe I am just grumpy.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-1000bc.jpg

i am just home. will be looking at games tomorrow.

Looks like we are alive. Congrats :)

Who's up? I think I am, but if Greebley would like to take a turn he should feel free. I won't be able to play the game until tonight so I'll check back before then to see if Greebley has claimed it.

I have two games I am up in, so go ahead and play first TMcC.

I got it.

I'm too tired to do this justice tonight, so I'll play tomorrow.

We are not at war with the Zulu in the save. Hopefully TMcC notices this and fixes immediately.

Let's see, where are we in this game?

Recent order of turns posted
Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC - has it
Greebley - back :D & up after T

HNDY05b - Sumerian Equestrians

1000 BC (0)
Bump up research to get Math 1 turn sooner. I'm going to move the settler on top of the Incense Hill to found, since neither side is fresh water.

Declare war on Shaka.

I'll allow Ur to continue with the Settler. We'll need an FP soon.

975 BC (1)
Russians just wander around. Army doubles back to acquire 3rd member.

950 BC (2)
Win one on IT vs. Russian Archer.

Agade founded, our 2nd lux is hooked up.

Enkidu Army gets third member. Now I just need 4 Archers.

925 BC (3)
Win another on IT. Maybe three attacks next time.

Math in, start on Wheel in 5.

900 BC (4)
Win two on IT, we have another Elite Enkidu.

Ur builds settler, but I have no idea where to put it. I think I'll save it as a replacement for a Russian town.

875 BC (5)
The Russians sure seem interested in Lagash.

850 BC (6)
Win on offense with Elite Archer, but no leader. Cover with Enkidu. Win on IT at Lagash.

Army kills an Archer that was wandering up.

825 BC (7)
Win one on IT.

Zulu drop off two Archers and an Impi.

800 BC (8)
Win vs. all three Zulu units, promoting Enkidu to Elite. But we have a problem. We are having to actively defend almost all of our cities, as here goes another Impi next to the city where I removed a unit to cover the northern landing.

We do have a Catapult in the city where the Impi could attack.

We have Horses by Ur. Research target set for HBR.

775 BC (9)
The Great Equalizer: Catapults. Score two cat hits on the Impi that was running for a soft target.

Enkidu Army kills another Archer. A mini-SOD is assembled in St. Petes, so homeland defense is a little barren at this point.

750 BC (10)
Impi retreats, Zulu land Archer. Bong Archer with two cat shots and kill with Elite Enkidu. No leader. Also win two battles against Russian Archers, with Elite Enkdiu, but no leader there either.

SOD(?) assembled under Army S of St. Petes. You have 5 Archers with which to burn Krasnoyarsk and a settler to use to build on the fresh water hill.

Another 10 AWS turns where we didn't lose a unit, but we're probably losing ground.

If we get a leader, I vote for an FP in Lagash. We'll want to expand that way, rather than into the pointy N.

Next leader also has to figure out what to do with Ur. It grew this past turn and I haven't adjusted the sliders. We'll have Horses hooked up next turn.

Recent order of turns posted
Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley - UP

Horses will help. If we can get a gang of horses and cats with EW cover perhaps we can make a move on the ivory & Iron.

I saw Greek muskets in HNDY05a tonight @ 170bc, so we are going to need lots of cats to hang around in these games.

Sorry for the late I got it, but I arrived back right into feast mode.

So I got it and hope to play tomorrow night. I may need the next day to finish.

I apologize for the delay on this game, but I got overloaded with 6 games when I came back, this being the 6th. I still plan to play this tonight. Two of my games ended, so things will become better now (less "long endgame turns").

No Problem. I'm glad you are back. :D

I decided to play well tonight rather than poorly last night (I was too tired to play well, so went to bed early instead).

Preturn: One trick we can do (that is hard to set up but really helps). Put Enkidu in mountains near towns. It suppresses the ability of workers to improve the terrain. Consider it "pre-pillaging". I wish we could have done more of this to keep the Russians down. I don't think you can win by defending like in most AW games.

690 BC: The "SOD" destroys the nearby russian town

670 BC: Finish HBR and start Ceremonial Burial.

650 BC: Leader Fishing Works!

630 BC: I end up making an Archer Army (there are archers there now).

550 BC(IBT): Our archer army is attacked when injured and is down to 2 hp.

Notes:
It is frightening how fast SID AI's grow. This game is starting to look lost.

Russians have Horsemen.

I would use the archer army to destroy Russian towns. I feel we MUST destroy them to win (Hopefully it will reach the town and heal). We may need to defend the archer army with the other Enkidu Army.

Sorry this took so long...

Here is a picture of our empire.

Also adjust science rate. Somehow I missed doing this.

From what I see on this map: We can keep Cathy's cities instead of burning them, if we have the chance. She appears to have no culture besides her Palace.

Any chance we can pop out a settler and found a defensible city between St. Pete and our Iron city?

At first blush I don't think we're doing too badly here. If we can get the Iron connected we may be able to outclass the Russians enough on the battlefield to make up for the short numbers. Or are we also in a mad scramble to beat the Zulus out of our core?

Well Done.

EW cover for the archer army sounds like a plan.

Nice tip about parking spears on the mountains near AI cities to inhibit growth. Also would have kept settlers from getting out I guess. We'll try that in our tiny pangaea sid attempt. :lol:

I agree on building a city between the iron city and our core. Getting iron to our core will be a challenge I think. We need more workers too (I didn't build as many - I felt I needed more defense).

We need a road on the iron square itself and have 3 workers, but they had to move so I would hold off until our Archer army heals I would also try to send two or more Enkidu out to defend the city.

Its really scary how fast the AI grows at SID.

[Edit:
Not sure on the Zulu. They have been landing a pair of units every 3-4 turns, but recently, I have seen a LOT more boats than before. If this means we will have an increase in landings it could get rough. Enkidu at only 10 shields (and defending) works pretty well if you need to handle things quickly - its downside is that you can be pillaged.

Its really scary how fast the AI grows at SID.


Amen.


Yom - UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

I got it, but it may take me a while. Tropical Storm Charley is coming my way and may knock out the power.

Few notes from peeking at the save:

Lots of city MM to do.

Maybe push a few more Cats, especially in cities that would take 15 turns to build a Horse. I agree that we need to be on the offensive, but artillery multiplies kill ratios which is the most important thing. Also check cities to verify you want as many MP as we have. We only need 2 for Happiness. Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly which of our cities I would describe as being off the front lines. :(

We are at our Army limit. Next leader can go towards Heroic Epic, or an FP. My nomination for an FP is in Lagash.

I might consider Walls in Agade before the Curragh. The Zulu were landing there on my turns. Also note the weedy spot in which I built Agade, making it more critical the city be able to defend itself.

I'd assume the regular Enkidu being built in Erech is to cover the workers on the Iron mountain, and that veteran Enkidus can come out of the core.

I would seriously consider a Settler out of Ur next. We are already running a clown in our capital, so the loss of pop there isn't that big a deal. I nominate the ruins/Hill SW of the Horses on the way to the Iron.

We actually can get a reasonable time on Currency after the MM and slider adjustment. I see ~20 turns.

I got it, but it may take me a while. Tropical Storm Charley is coming my way and may knock out the power.

Yom - Do you need a skip in this one too? I saw you needed one in HNDY05a - Mayans

I can play this tonight, I just didn't want to hold up HNDY05a any more than I already had.

I can play this tonight, I just didn't want to hold up HNDY05a any more than I already had.

Okay :goodjob:

I think you are up in SGOTM3 also.

Turn 0 - Cover Archer army with Enkidu army. Raise science to 60%

IBT - Tons of Zulu boats move around, The russians advance on Lagash. The archer/spearman pair retreat into the city.

Turn 1 - I have to retreat the offensive against Smolensk. The catapult will be lost if I don't destroy the archer on the hill (can't move onto mountain, so I do so with an archer, -3hp.

IBT - The zulus are heading south

Turn 2 - Not much.

Turn 3 - Destroy some archers by Lagash and St. Petersburg.

IBT - More advances.

Turn 4 - Kill a horseman/archer pair by kish, an archer by St. Petersburg and an archer by Lagash.

IBT - Well that was unexpected, those Zulu galleys must have landed S. in Russian territory as an impi/archer pairman comes up by Vladivostok. Another russian city pops up, this time on incense north of our Iron city (it's a good city spot for us too).

Turn 5 - Resting. With luck, the new russian city will be gone next turn.

IBT - More impis, not good news.

Turn 6 - Bye, bye Novobirks, we knew thee not well.

IBT - The Zulus attack Iron city with an impi unsuccessfully, next turn they will attack in full force (they gathered on the iron tile, unfortunately. The mayans complete Sun Tzu's.

Turn 7 - Destroy a settler pair, an archer and a spearman. I have to lower science b/c of unit costs.

IBT - we kill 3 zulu archers on defense, which allows us to retake the Iron tile.

Turn 8 - lose a horseman killing a spearman, but get an elite horseman out of it.

IBT - more advancements, no attacks.

Turn 9 - Kill 3 archers. Move a pair of enkidus towards iron city. We'll need more Enkidus if we want to defend the city AND the Iron AND leave the archer army free to attack cities. Next target, Vladivostok.

IBT - Not much, advancements as usual.

Turn 10 - Our curragh discovers furs on our landmass in the far North. Our archer army destroys one spearman in vladivostok, but another remains. We should be able to take the city next turn (I doubt it has more than 3 spearmen. I sent 4 enkidus on their way to Erech. 1 in the West and 1 in the East. The Western one should help guard the Iron, as should 1 of the Western ones. The other 2 Enkidus are actually to keep the russian troops off the mountains where they can roam about our lands (like one russian spearman did on my turns) and won't get the high ground. Ur should probably build a city soon as we need more troop support and need more cities to build armies. I would recommend the site of our old city on the hill where an enkidu is standing. Currency is due in 11 at -3 gpt with 79 gold in reserve.

Our next leader is coming soon. What do we want to do with him? FP immediately or wait for a sword army? I vote FP. It will take us a few turns before we get 4 more cities.

Do we have enough cities for the FP yet? We may need 10???

[Edit: We can build the FP. I always forget the city counts....]

I agree the FP would be best. Corruption is huge on tiny maps.

Yom
Handy - UP
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Slinger - I'm up in the other HNDY05 & will play that tomorrow. If you want to jump in & grab this, I'll play after you.

Yom
Handy - skip
Slinger -UP
T_McC
Greebley

I can't play unitl Monday, so please skip me.
Sorry for the hold up.

Barbslinger,
Do you know you are up in this game?

Sorry for the delay. I thought Handy was up here. I'll play tonight after reading the logs.

Just have to say that I think you guys are all nuts. Always War + Sid = :eek: :suicide:

Guys I'm really sorry I can't get to this tonight and it will have to be tomorrow night. I've been doing extended hours at work ever since Raytheon got signed for 2200 more tomahawk missles. My company makes the midbodies, tailcones and wings for the thing and we have been busy along with an ISO audit this week.

I think that is fine Barbslinger. Everyone else seems kinda busy anyway.

Yeah, I've been kind of busy and a little burned out. I think for the last 8 weeks I've been in 4 pseudo-AW games at a time. You don't get many short turns that way. :lol:

The other problem is that I'm pretty sure I've been shadowing this one when it's not my turn. (Easy test: If Moscow is still Russian when Slinger opens the game, I've already shadowed this round. :eek: :lol: ) I don't think I have any real surprising spoiler knowledge, but even that last crack was borderline.

I do think we are in a decent position in this game. The one thing I would emphasize is that we need to get a couple more cities down. It isn't doing us any good to burn Cathy's cities and not replace them. We can build one city that links the Iron to our core (ruins/Hill next to Horses) and another on an Incense hill E of that. Those cities will be targets, but they will replace other cities of ours as targets so we're not defending a larger front.

It would be really nice to keep Russian cities so we don't have to build every city from scratch and hurt our own city sizes and it gains us bigger cities sooner that can build more units quicker (and give us an advantage due to fighting rather than a disadvantage.

By this I mean if we build everything from scratch we are doing the same building we would have done anyway, but have to fight for the spots. Keeping the cities means we don't have to do building and don't have to shrink our cities making us stronger.

So I am thinking we should keep smaller cities even though there is a risk of flips. We should definitely fill lands as Russia can do this very quickly and we have to re-destroy the same spot over and over.

[Edit: Danz, Probably :) We already won the diety game though so this is next...

TMcC, does that mean you would rather wait for us to win/lose this one before starting HNDY5c? 4 is a lot of AW.

The problem we are having is that Cathy whips her cities down to size 1 whenever we are adjacent to them, and she has built no cultural buildings in her entire civ! Another reason to like Horses for the attack, we might catch her with a size 2 city.

Otherwise fully in agreement with capturing where we can. We are even or better in culture, and eventually we'll have 4 lux for our cities so the "Stop the Aggression ..." won't be a real hinderance.

SGOTM is dragging on, and will continue to do so for a long time. (Unless we get avalanched :lol: ) But I think we can start another Tiny game, these aren't so bad. Plus we can lose these pretty quickly. :p

Okay I'm back from a disaster of a weekend and a quick business road trip. I needed the skip to allow me to catch up on RL. Thanks. :) I'm taking 8th grade honors math, english & science this year - well actually the handyette is, and the homework is a real PITA. I'm destined to repeat 8th grade. I miss elementary school...

Anyway, maybe next week I'll kick off hndy05c if you guys are game. I'm thinking about running a contest for 05c. Whoever wants to can enter by posting a tiny map 20 turn start & we all vote on the map we want. Whoever posts the winning map gets to play on the team. I got several PMs asking to get in on HNDY 05, so I thought this would allow at least 1 person a chance for public humiliation. Any thoughts?

Plus we can lose these pretty quickly
Just caught this. Too funny. :lol:

SGOTM is dragging on No kidding!!

Sounds like an interesting idea Handy. I would definitely make it more than 20 turns that is preplayed. 20 is insufficient to get a good idea of the map. I would go with 30 turns like we did for 5a and b.

Handy05b-350BC

Preturn- Well back to this for another round of survival and hopefully some expansion. On that vein I swap the capital to settler since it has an entertainer going. MM the cities a bit to speed up one build. Take a look at the tactical situation and it does not look too bad. Wondering if the Zulu galleys are in or outbound.
IT – Zulus head north probably looking to land. Russian troops flash by 3 times and the zulu Impi heads N. Sumer-Horse>Walls, Bad-time-Enki>Rax.
[1] 330 – Fortify Enki mountain line. Bomb and kill an archer flawless, not exposed west of St. Petes. Destroy Vlad and pick up 2 slaves to help with iron road. Move around a few units and lose of MP in Kish mandates a lux boost for one turn. 3-0
IT – Whew, barely survive an archer attacking the fortified Enki guarding the 3 slaves roading the iron. 1 hp. Zulu ships look to be going around our northern horn. Russia looks to be heading to irontown now. 4-0
[2] 310 – Kill an archer near Bryansk, west of St. Petes and retreat and kill another near Lagash. Start moving some workers towards our future iron road. Curraugh shows Iron in the north past the Russia town. St. Petes goes to settler. 7-0
IT – Russians have a lot of troops heading to Iron town. Zulu land an archer and Impi in our far north. We have 2 Enkis there. St. P’s settler> Enki, Lagash-Cat>Enki. No battles.
[3] 290 – Finally kill the pesky Impi that made his way next to our horses. Get another Enki in Iron town and cover workers with army. Use 4/5 horse to kill a spear in Smolensk. He heads out to heal. 9-0. Have to drop research as gpt is now –13.
IT – 2 defensive kills and the impi in the north pillages our mine. They drop off an impi, archer and warrior with the pillager. Then they start Leos.11-0.
[4] 270 – Get another elite kill and a leader comes forth. I’m thinking this should be an FP. Lose a horse in the north. 12-1
IT – Win a defensive in northern Agade and lose to an archer. Impis take off to pillage.13-2. 2 new Zulu galleys come calling. I riot St. P’s because I moved an archer as my last move to go after Smolensk. Russians send a settler pair to kill in a bit.
[5] 250 – Road is finished on the iron but workers can’t go to other side quite yet, due to Russian forces, so they fortify in Iron town. Kill one Impi. Bryansk I get a kill with the horse and a scalding loss with the archer. Injured horse and Enki retreat to heal. 15-3
IT – 2 defensive kills. 17-3
[6] 230 – Army kills 2 of 4 archers crowding Irontown, move some troops. Check MM. 19-3
IT – 3 defensive kills. 22-3. Zulus land another Impi/archer near Agade.
[7] 210 – Kill the settler pair and then in a move of stupidity I nearly lose the Enki army attacking an archer on the mountain. 25-3
IT – Get a scare as a horse heads towards the Enki army. Mayan complete Sistenes and KT. Impi pillagers are on the move.
[8] 190 – Found Isin on what looks like a nice FP site. Still can’t get to the marsh to road it and connect iron all around.
IT – Build a temple in Ur and now we have 3 turn horses. St. P’s builds an Enki.
[9] 170 – Kill an Impi. Attack Smolensk and get a retreat, win, win and then trying t o take our the reg archer with an Enki goes down in flames. I rush the FP in Isin and should be able to get road started next turn. 28-4
IT – Get 2 defensive kills in Agade. Russians flee Irontown. Fp completes and walls are started. For some reason 5 cities want to riot but I scrolled ahead losing Ur to a riot. Russia lands a horse near Sumer. 30-4 Impi pillaged road to Agade. Could that have caused the riots? Another Zulu archer/ impi lands.
[10] 150 – Burn Smolensk and send a settler in to grab the fish. Gather another settler pair and slaves. Sent one to make a colony on the ivory. All workers are on the marsh to improve it. Killed the Russian horse north of Sumer and sent him to Sumer to heal.

Sent one Enki to cover a mine from pillaging impi. Perhaps build a colony and fortress on ivory. 2 more settlers would be nice and the impis in the north look to become a problem but a few swords should cure that. Hope the FP is OK. I felt that if we can populate the other cities on that leg to the west it would be pretty nice. Also, we have one now.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HNDY05b_BC150.jpg

:goodjob: Nice turns. But why isn't Moscow Sumerian ;).

:goodjob: Nice turns. But why isn't Moscow Sumerian ;).I thought about it but wouldn't it be better to cramp thier production by saving Moscow for last. If we can clear out the other cities near Moscow and leave Moscow there they would have virtually no production at all. I would hate for the russian capital to jump to the eastern core.

Very solid.

We probably have as many cities as Cathy, and ours are better placed. Since we only have 9 cities our 3rd army is a ways off, so the next leader should probably go for the Heroic Epic. (I don't think we've built it yet.) After that I guess Markets when we can't build armies.

Agreed with saving a city in the SW for last with Cathy. Maybe Moscow, maybe the one farther west. I can't remember how the Capital jumps when every non-Capital city has zero culture. We may even get a flip somewhere in here, at least we're generating 4 non-Palace cpt. :p

I like the Incense Hill between Lagash and Erech for our next city. Haven't looked at the save, but do we have 2 settlers active? I see the one heading for the fish.

Sounds like an interesting idea Handy. I would definitely make it more than 20 turns that is preplayed. 20 is insufficient to get a good idea of the map. I would go with 30 turns like we did for 5a and b.

30 turns is a good idea. :goodjob:

Way to go Slinger! :goodjob:

Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC is UP
Greebley

I think I would rather get our 3 more cities right away. The Heroic epic is quite cheap and not really worth a leader to build. We have one settler, and need one for the incense. Lets build that third one or capture a city. That way we can use our forth leader to rush Pentagon.

I see our incense got cut. We will want to reconnect quickly. We can also build swords soon!

[Edit: Interesting we haven't met the Mayans yet. Lets keep land filled so they don't send over a settler. I would rather not meet them.

Ah, there was incense under Agade. That is where the riots came from. Well the north is getting pretty busy with Zulu landings. the rivers cause quite a delay too traversing back from south to north. It may be a while before it gets reconnected. The workers are hooking up the iron next turn and then I might send a few to fortress the iron so we can free up the army guarding it. The nice thing is we will have swords soon and the impis will certainly fall then.
Good luck, it is daunting but does not feel impossible quite yet.

Good luck, it is daunting but does not feel impossible quite yet.

That's encouraging. I think we all kinda have an intuitive feel for when it's hopeless in these games. Nice to hear we're not there........yet. ;)

I'm working on spooling up HNDY05c since I now have RL and the job under control again. Gosh I hate road trips. :cry:


HNDY05c is up and running. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2128618#post2128618) I assumed you were all in. Let me know if you are out.

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :)

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :) Of swords if you would please.

Got it. I'll see about getting us to 12 cities and another army. :)

Goalsetting is a good thing. Good Luck. :goodjob:

HNDY05b - You Want a Piece of This?!?

150 BC (0)
I'll whip the Walls in Agade in 2. {Turns out I didn't, no need} I think I can get rid of the Impi next turn, but he'll pillage another tile first. (Unless he just runs away.)

OK, we only have 1 settler, let's get two more in production. Also means next leader may just go for the HE after all.

Lagash swapped to settler. It will max out at size 6 in 3 turns. The settler can be timed to match that, and we already have a few units that way.

I'll pop another settler out of Ur timed with growth to size 8.

I'm not going to colonize the Ivory. We would need too much to defend it right now.

IT - Win one, retreat one vs. Zulu.

130 BC (1)
Russians have Horses. :nono: Have to stop that.

We have Iron in our cities, and EW's upgrade to Pikes instead of Swords. So we need to build a few from scratch.

No real MM possible. Swap one city over to a sword.

110 BC (2)
Kill one Impi, bong another with the Cat.

Slowly sneaking up on a Russian city in the east. The Russkies have discovered our planned city in the West and are advancing.

90 BC (3)
Push Archer army towards intended victim city. Use Horse covered by Elite Enkidu to pillage Russian Horses. Have to figure out logistics of founding the Incense city, we're short on offense over there.

Found Akshak by the fish. Starts on Walls. Will come under attack, but per usual the AI will likely stop in front of the city and allow me to get the first attack.

Push Enkidu army out to view Moscow. Maybe we can do some more pillaging there.

Make a couple extra bucks with Currency coming in next turn.

IT - Nothing much.

70 BC (4)
Kill a Russian Horse. We'll be attacked next turn a couple of times. Maybe.

Trap is set at Yakutsk. The city is size 3, and we can attack three times next turn.

50 BC (5)
Miss Cat shot on Impi. He can't do anything useful, so no big deal.

Kill Russian Horse near Akshak. Then kill an Archer and the coast is clear over there. Start to push some workers and two Cats that way.

Slide Enkidu Army towards Incense hill. Settler is approaching from other direction. Retreat a Horse on an Archer there, so may have to attack with the Enkidu Army.

Kill Spear with Archer army, retreat Horse vs. Spear, then kill Spear with Archer army and capture Yakutsk. It's size 2, so you better believe Walls will be whipped once resistance ends. Also slide Elite Enkidu in there, we can be attacked by a couple reg. Archers next turn.

Enkidu army takes way too much damage to be comfortable, but slay an Archer that is in my way of founding the Incense city, our 12th.

I think the Zulu and Mayans are throwing down. Shaka hasn't landed anything in a while, and his cities are starving (via F11). More good news. :)

30 BC (6)
Win one on IT, but Russians pillage a tile at Yakutsk. Good Play Sparky. :rolleyes:

Lose Elite Horse on red-lined Impi, then kill his full-health brethren, in a forest, with a vet Horse. :crazyeye:

Whack Russian Archer and assume the position to form a city on Incense Hill. That will be 12, now where's my leader? Kill another Russian Archer at Yakutsk. The sun is starting to set on Cathy.

Skirt blue borders in our Curragh. I didn't see anything. Honest. :mischief:

Have to turn up lux for a turn, the Impi in the forest kept a Sword from completing next turn. Now it will again. :)

Nertz! Should have had Governor on in Yakutsk. The city will starve next turn and prevent me whipping it.

IT - Lose the regular Enkidu that was guarding our Iron. I never liked that guy anyway.

10 BC (7)
Found Incense city, start on Walls.

Our first Sword rolls off the line. Retreat Horse off of Iron. Red-lined Archer remains. Ehh, so we might have to hook it back up.

Lux tax to 10%, Writing now due in 5.

IT - Retreats.

10 AD (8)
Mis-click and move an Army. Re-load.

Couple of Russian Archers are advancing on Kish. We'll have three units, including a Sword waiting.

I think I can get another Russian city by the end of my turns. Requires leaving a vulnerable Archer alone this turn. In the not too-distant future we'll have the Russians penned up on the extremes of the continent.

IT - Hmm ... apparently all the party people want to go to Yakutsk.

30 AD (9)
Take a gamble. We can be attacked by two units next turn, and we have two Enkidu behind a river. I move out to attack Orenburg, scoring 1 victory with the Archer army.

IT - Win 3 on the IT, promoting an Enkidu in the field to Elite. Russians pillage and run at Yakutsk.

50 AD (10)
We win twice with the Archer army and capture Orenburg and three slaves. Then whack the Horse that ran away.

Cathy, that light at the end of the tunnel is a Sumerian Freight Train! Choo-choo!

Final Notes:
The Russians are gassed. They're 2cc'ing because Yekaterinaburg is building SoZ, and one of the 2CC is size 1. :lol:

I didn't check to see if they have any off-island cities, but from those visible they can only generate 5 troops every 8 turns, less if they have Horses somewhere I didn't see, plus whatever Moscow can build. The workers are starting the process of digging St. Pete out of the jungle, and then they can retreat to our core. No cities we capture/found from here on out will be better than 1/1 until Communism.

We are such a nice position that I think we should go for Lit next and get our cheap libraries on-line before we try for Monarchy and beyond. The Mayans completed Leo's during my turns, so they at least are drawing near to Cavalry. If we can get to Trebs and Knights before they can bring Rifles/Cavs in force, we can win.

Picture and dot-map in next post.

I didn't get us to 12 cities. :sad:

I got us to 13. :)

Open blue circle is the 4th lux on our continent. God-awful place for a city, but we'll manage.

Open red circle is our burgeoning Sword stack. Combine these three with the Elite Enkidu and we have another group capable of capturing cities in the mild east.

Since our Enkidu Army doesn't have much to do anymore, the southern pink dot should be a priority. It is located on top of the Ivory. The other pink dot completes a nice 3x3 square and brings a food bonus into play.

The western blue dot may be a productive city, the eastern is next to a food bonus and fills in territory.

The Zulu did not land a single troop on my turns and the Russians paid a terrible price. :D

Note the presence of zero Russian troops in this picture. :eek:

Nicely done!!

Looks like there is a safe landing zone for an army W of Akshak. Coastal jungle tile with no roads. If that's the main continent (and not a fake-out island ala Sling3) and we get a pillaging army to work at this early date we will be in excellent position to ride to victory.

First off, great going. Now another leader and we are rolling. There is incense under Agade I thought? Need to hook up that road again. Perhaps the Zulus gave up because they are fighting the Mayans. We should be able to populate our little slice of heaven over the next 20 turns to cover our island. The one thing I'm wondering though is you said 2CC'ing. I count 7 russian left. It looks like taking out Khabarovsk next and then fortifying the mountains leading to Bryansk to hold back the 3 russian towns left in the east. We can then concentrate on clearing out the russian west and filling out the FP core.
Looking good!

There is incense under Agade I thought? Need to hook up that road again.

Actually we don't need to. Zabalam is also built on Incense and is already on our road network. We need to connect the two ex-Russian cities to ours though.

The one thing I'm wondering though is you said 2CC'ing. I count 7 russian left.

Correct. But only two of those cities are within 15 tiles of their capital. All the rest are 1/1 crap. And of the two in their core, one is tied up building a wonder and the other was size 1 the last time we saw it. It may have grown since, but I didn't see very many troops from the west.

Next leader should carefully look things over. We may have an opportunity to get away with building 4-5 settlers in the next 10 turns. I felt we had more than enough troops to handle what was thrown at us, and we don't have a pressing need for much more military unless we want to step up the attack on the Russians.

And I just had a wicked thought: There are at least 3 Horses on our continent. It is entirely possible the Zulu and Mayans have to share 1 or zero. If the AI is forced to do an Infantry-only game, we're in terrific shape.

I think he already knows, but Greebley is up.

Yom
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley is UP

Check out the starts we have to choose from @ HNDY05c - play your way onto the team (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98021) when you have a chance. Submissions are due Sunday @ midnight, then we get to vote on the start we want.

Ok I got it and will try to play tonight.

So what order should we go for city kills?

I am inclined to go for Kharabvosk, and then the 3 to the south including Moscow. This will make our line of defense very easy.

When did Yekatiniaburg start SoZ? I think I want to take it out just after it finished.

I'd go for Kharabovsk, then circle the Archer army back towards Moscow. Yekat started building SoZ about my 2nd or 3rd turn. If they can pull 5 spt they will finish it at the end of your turns. Agreed to let them finish the Statue, then we have 5 turns to snag the city. :)

I would not attack the Russian core until all the cities in the east are ours, I doubt anything we capture in either area will be useful to us and nothing is getting past the EW/Sword group by the mountains.

I actually think we are better served to push settlers rather than military on these turns. It should be easy to build 3-4 Settlers in the next 10. Ur can do another after the one queued (with an intervening unit or two to let it grow), and Lagash can probably do one after it grows to size 6. The Russians are not putting up much resistance.

I won't be concentrating on military (i.e. I agree with settling), but the archer army will need something to do :)

I think the last cities should be the 3 NE most cities. Distance corruption will be less, but the Russians won't have a land route to our lands and we can settle more land.

The concern I have with attacking the Russian core is that if we capture Moscow or whatever the NW city is, they may stop building SoZ for us.

Ehh. Either way, so long as we can attack cities we can capture instead of raze. If it works out right we may be twice the size of either the Zulu or Mayans. That has to count for something.

Writing will complete early in your turns. Maybe we go for Map Making and hope for a leader. Or my original thought of Lit to speed up all the rest of our researching. I'm not sure how critical Libraries will be, we should have many specialist cities.

One concern I have is that the Mayans will be destroyed. In that case we will have to get a foothold on a continent as big as ours with only one civ. Pillaging doesn't work in that case as the AI will attack armies.

First thing to do when I get home (or you can when you open the game): Check the Zulu city list. I was under the impression that the Mayans were winning that war. They seem to have all of the recent wonders, and I only figured the other continent was at war when I checked F11 and saw three Zulu cities listed, and all three were starving.

Very interesting. I was assuming the Mayans were losing since we didn't see them yet. It may be they are simply concentrating on land units.

I agree on not destroying Moscow until after the SoZ is built.

Great banter there guys. The SoZ wold be a nice feather to have for sure. It's culture will keep it from auto-razing too I would think so It can be captured as soon as it completes. You could probably station the archer army just outside the city gates in preparation for the capture.
On the russian western cities; is corruption that bad on the tiny map that the FP in Isin won't help those cities?

:goodjob: Great turns T_McC.

If the Mayans are losing badly, then I believe it's in our best interests to start taking the Zulu down a notch now. They're definitely at war with the Mayans, seeing as there were 0 landings. Seeing as we only have galleys, we'll have to send a 1-unit enkidu army, defended by 2 Elite Enkidus. A preliminary galley/curragh (do we have MM?) might be in our bests interest to find the Zulu continent and see how badly they've beaten the Mayans.

The Zulu may be losing according to TMcC.

No Map Making yet. It will probably be our next tech.

On the Russian western cities; is corruption that bad on a tiny map that the FP in Isin won't help those cities?

The central problem is that the OCN for a Tiny map on Sid is ~9.25 (with the FP). :eek:

The city just SW of Isin may be decent, and the SW Blue dot from the previous DM should be OK. But otherwise we're looking at serious corruption problems in every other city in our S or W.

Another point. The DM I posted is a little loose in the 2nd ring (meaning >12 tiles/city). That was intentional, even though Yakutsk and Orenberg are horribly corrupt and don't need that many tiles. If we want to squeeze those cities, let's do it from the S along the shore and leave our potentially strong cities with lots of tiles.

Let go MM on research. It looks like there is an unroaded jungle tile we can safely insert the army on to the W of Akshak. If we get an army inserted, we can pillage the stronger of the Mayans & Aztecs to make sure they both survive.

GreebleyAre you 100% sure a lone remaining AI will attack a pillaging army on the AI's home continent? I thought the AI would run to the boats to attack our shores. I do know if we build a city on their continent, and place an army in the city they will attack. I don't think a lone remaining AI will attack a pillager unless the AI has the army way out-gunned, as long as the AI can cross the seas to get to us.

GreebleyAre you 100% sure a lone remaining AI will attack a pillaging army on the AI's home continent? I thought the AI would run to the boats to attack our shores. I think they would do both. I was pretty sure Greebley had told us in a previous post he had witnessed it first hand. There can not be any other AI on that continent at all though. If the Mayan and Zulu are fighting I would think there is a land connection somewhere for them. As long as the Zulu do not go extinct it should be OK.

Ya, there was an example in one of the LK games. They had a pillaging army on the other continent. One turn after the player on the same starting continent was eliminated, the army was attacked and destroyed. I played around with the save and the city fell two turns later than the SG. The army was also attacked two turns later - to the attacked again waited until the AI had its own continent.

There may be examples where the army isn't attacked. We can't really count on this. For example, It keeps some troops as defense. If the AI has that number of troops or less, I suspect it will not attack. It may also not attack if there is free land available or any easier target like non-army units. I am unsure what happens if there are neutral units on the continent. Neutral cities seems to quell this affect.

It may also only apply to the starting continent or the continent with the capitol. I am not sure on this.

Also if the AI has its own continent it is much more likely to build bombers and boats.

For now we should assume both civs will survive as pillaging is very useful. If this changes then we can discuss. Dropping defensive units on mountains to get good kill ratios is probably best if we can't pillage.

Ok.

Let's hope we get lucky and pop a leader before they build roads to the jungle.

Off topic - Yom - you are up in SGOTM3

Yom is also up in BZ9...

If the army does get attacked we could try to take a city and then gift it to Cathy. that would put 2 AI on the continent.

Can we gift something while we are at war with them?

Intersesting idea. I like it if it can be done.

No, you'll have to declare peace gift, then redeclare war. Don't know how you guys feel about it, since you have to leave the diplo screen to declare war again. This is bordering very close to the old AI city bug from the first few versions of vin Civ3

Whoops, my bad. Just trying to think out of the box. Back to kill off Cathy, get to pillaging and building some education to get our tech moving.

I just took a peek at the Zulu diplomacy screen, and Shaka has one Mayan city under his control. Maybe he is winning.

But I also couldn't help but notice he does not have either Horses or Iron. :bounce:

Hmmm ... check F7 and tell me what large building is missing ...

:)

Preturn: Things look good.

IBT: Zulu plant a city on our island.

70 AD: Advance Archer army. Move the swords to the front lines. Send 1 sword toward the Zulu city.

IBT: Our archer army is attacked and injured. I wonder if it was because the unit was "trapped" by the army.

Ur: Settler->Settler
Sumer: Sword->Sword
Lagash: Sword->Market

90 AD: Retreat Archer army. Send Enkidu army off to disconnect Moscow.

IBT:
Bad Time: Worker->Market
Asharak: Walls->Cat.

110 AD: Attack an archer.

IBT: A few Russian units seen

130 AD: My first Elite victory gets us a Leader (sword army anyone?) Switch a St Peters to a sword.
Another archer dies.

IBT: Horse seen
Ur: Settler->Market

150 AD: Build Kissura. I Build it to give us passage so it is a bit crowded.
I capture Ibabanbo - the Zulu town. It was already size 2.

IBT:
Isin: Barracks->Enkidu

170 AD: Lose two swords vs one Spear and we don't destroy Byansk. Grrr!

IBT: The Mayans land a settler with a musket. They land it where we were planning on settling too. Zulu have another city on our land mass.

190 AD: Destroy Bryansk. Our army is finally ready to attack. Mayans have only 7 cities. Declare war.
BTW the Zulu have 14 cities

IBT: We now have Map Making! Start Mysticism as it is only 4 turns.

210 AD: Destroy Khabavrosk. Change over to more settlers. Hurry a Galley in Agade.

230 AD: Gathering forces near the russian city building the SoZ.

250 AD: The archer army is still far away from the SOZ. Our 1 sword army is nearby, the Enkidu army and other units.

Notes:
The statue of Zeus must be "Real Soon Now. They have a hill with a mine.
Progress was slower than I hoped, but russia is really hurting now.
We have 1 galley and will build the other in 2 turns. In 4 turns we could get the army across (Need to wait for SOZ though).

Even if we lose we have proven you can beat a SID opponent in AW when you start on the same land mass. That is no small feat! We may even win!

Here is a picture. Feel free to adjust what is building. I was sometimes at a loss.

Yom is UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Sounds very good. If we manage to get a pillaging army across the pond we have a real chance at this. :thumbsup:

I jumped in front of Yom in SGOTM3, so I hope Yom can get to this. I'm in town this weekend, so if no word from Yom in 24 hrs, I'll try to pick it Saturday.

Even if we lose we have proven you can beat a SID opponent in AW when you start on the same land mass. That is no small feat! We may even win!

Had to check again, but ...

If I recall correctly from my shadow turns, neither the Zulu nor the Mayans have either Horses or Iron! They'll be breaking out the Longbows for an invasion.

And, no one has Lit yet. The Market in Ur is a nice start to pre-building for the Great Library. (Yom will have to switch to the Heroic Epic before the Market completes.)

If this is all correct, we're past the stage of may win. :D

Even if the SoZ is built, the Russians won't get any AC if the Enkidu army clips the Ivory. :) We can wait for the Archer army to make the scene, and can send the pillaging army whenever we have enough boats. Since we won't be attacking anything with that army I would load a couple of Elite Enkidus in the 2nd Galley. Or we could hedge and take 1 Enkidu + 1 Sword, so that the army is a 4/3 unit.

Yeah, I'd definitely take a look at the builds. We're currently building zero troops. I think 50-turn Markets can wait and 30-turn settlers will better serve us as workers.

I'm just upset because my shadow went a little smoother. :lol:

I built a lot of units in the early part of the turn. I would build at least 2 settlers and get the 2 missing resources if we possibly can. We really need happiness.

I don't think we should put Enkidu in the new army. A 3 sword army can take out units and even cities. We will want to pillage at first, but the AI repairs things so fast we may want to switch to permanant destruction at some point. We can also kill Longbow with little risk.

Are you kidding!?!? No lit! That's fantastic news. If we can get TGL, we're locked for a win. The only thing that's holding us back now is our technological inferiority. If we can catch up, we're set. :D

I don't think we should put Enkidu in the new army. A 3 sword army can take out units and even cities.

Well ... if it's a three-member army the only advantage we gain with the third sword is if we're reduced to using it's third member on an attack. If that happens the Army is lost regardless. Post-MilAcad the third sword boosts the army attack value, and post-Pentagon 4 Swords beats any combination including Enkidus. My concern is that we're not building any troops in that picture, and we don't want all of our swords on the other continent. We will have to fend off landings and until we get Engineering our defense is not that flexible. So I certainly support an all-sword army, but build us some more for home too. :)

The Pentagon is now available as a terrific pre-build/fallback for the Great Library.

Where's our Dinky? Or did we upgrade that to a Galley already?

Our dinky is out and about and can be upgraded.

Previously I was building nothing but swords since we just got them. I think we need some infra too - especially markets. We have none.

By all means try for the GLib in our capitol.

Are you kidding!?!? No lit! That's fantastic news. If we can get TGL, we're locked for a win. The only thing that's holding us back now is our technological inferiority. If we can catch up, we're set. :D


Yom, did you realize you are up in this one? :) I didn't see an I got it.

Yom is UP
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

I realize I'm up. I'm planning on playing this on Saturday as well (Only time will tell if I have enough time to play it at midday or the afternoon, though).

I wasn't able to finish Bz9 until now, so this will have to wait until Sunday afternoon, if you don't mind.

Turn 0 - Switch Ur from Marketplace to The Pentagon, due in 36 (400 shields). I've got my. . fingers crossed for TGL.

I'm a bit skeptical on the location of Kissura, but I won't disband it. I'm still going to build a city on T_McC's blue dot 1 S and 1 SW of where it is now, though. I only make 1 build change, but once most of these settlers are built, I'll focus on some more troop production.

IBT - Various troop movements, the Mayans advance a longbow and a Crusader.

Turn 1 - Der founded. Emphasize production was off, so I turn it on.

IBT - We lose an Enkidu on defense to a Longbow (expected), but it allows our workers to complete the road this turn, rather than retreat.
Mysticism learned, research set to Polytheism in 7 at +4gpt (Literature next, then Monarchy).

Turn 2 - Good thing we waited a bit before sending an army over to the Zulu continent. There's actually a 4 tile island right next to the main continent that we may have accidentally have landed on.

IBT - We defeat a Russian archer. The mayans advance another longbow in addition to the one they already have near Der and advance their Crusader. This is gonna be a close fight, or we're gonna have to take some casualties.
Orenburg and Erech (iron city) riot. :smoke: Sorry about that.
Yekaterinburg has finished Zeus! Time to attack.

Turn 3 - Nevermind about that 4 tile island thing. It's barely connected to the mainland.
I seem to have forgotten about our Archer army, which can take out a Longbow this turn. Our catapult hits the 2/3 Longbow and a horseman takes it out flawlessly. The archer army kills the 2/3 Longbow flawlessly as well.
I think we built a few too many settlers. I wish some of those were swordsmen right now as the areas we want to settle aren't enemy-free (save one inside our borders).

IBT - Lmao!! The Mayans are fools. They move their crusader onto another mountain (Rather than the plains, which is smart), but they bring with them a settler that moves onto the mountain undefended.

Turn 4 - Our swordsman army (2 swordsmen only) takes Yekaterinburg, losing 2 hp in the process but getting us Zeus and a slave.

We capture the Mayan settler, netting us 2 slaves.

IBT - The Crusader attacks a regular Enkidu on a hill (that I put there so it couldn't stay on the high ground) and wins, but loses 2hp. A russian archer dies at the hands of a vet Enkidu at Kissura (it wouldn't attack when the Elite Enkidu was showing, though).

Turn 5 - Once again, it's good to explore before sending an army out. The Island near us is NOT the Zulu Homeland. There may be a passage in the South though, since I see a Zulu border poking out.
The lucky crusader defeats a veteran horseman (after redlining, it won 4 straight points) AND promotes.
Kua is founded.
Our sword Army takes out an archer, losing 1 hp in the process. The battle for Moscow will occur next turn. I should probably let the capital stay far away from their cities, but since they have so few cities, the far away cities should have regular corruption anyway. All of them are size 1 too, so there's no need to delay Moscow's capitulation any further.

IBT - We defeat a Longbow and Crusader on defense, getting one promotion to elite.
Yakutsk and Yekaterinburg riot. I keep forgetting that MP means something in the small cities (once the russians are dead, they shouldn't be a problem).

Turn 6 - Our cats go 2/3 at Moscow. We kill 3 spearmen and an Archer and get a Leader on my first try leader fishing. Do we want the Pentagon or another army? I will save this decision for the next leader as there's little chance for more Elite Combat on my turns.
Moscow is captured along with 2 slaves. I decided to capture, not raze, since it's too small to get us any slaves. If we deem it too high a flip risk (which I don't believe it is)

IBT - The Mayans advance another reg Longbow out of Calakmul.

Turn 7 - A Vet horse defeats the Longbow flawlessly and retreats.

IBT - We defeat another Russian Archer on Defense.
Mysticism comes in, research set to Literature in 19. We could have gotten Monarchy in 13 and still made a little gpt, but if we get TGL (which it seems we will) we won't need to research it, so why waste the money doing so? The AI will have Education soon (if it doesn't already) so it should be getting Literature right after, meaning that TGL could fall soon, but I think we can take that chance.

Turn 8 - Marad Founded. Calakmul will be assaulted soon. Most likely on my last turn or the turn after.

IBT - The Mayans advance Yet another Longbow out of Calakmul

Turn 9 - Our vet horseman kills the Longbow, losing 2 hp but promoting.
A Catapult hits the Musketman in the city, but no other defender pops up. They may have more units in there, though.
Our archer army defeats the Musketman, losing 3 hp (now 11/14), revealing a reg spearman. The army attacks again, and wins, losing 2 hp. Calakmul is razed since it is 1 tile away from the proposed city spot (on the Ivory). No slave, unfortunately.

Our curragh is kinda useless with its short range, so I'm going to attempt a suicide run to see if it can get across the 4-tile sea/ocean (if only we were seafaring or had TGLighthouse). In its crossing, it discovers a Mayan Caravel near our coast. Let's hope it's not landing anything near our newly conquered territories as I barely defended them so that I could push the offensive.

IBT - The Mayan Caravel luckily retreats. We also defend against an Elite Impi who manages to do more damage than the past 3 russian archers combined (1 hp).

Turn 10 - Kuara Founded. I move most of our troops towards the Western front. We need some more settlers to fill it out, but we have plenty of troops to clear out our West. The addition of Ivory made our cities a lot happier, and Furs would do a lot of help as well. All of our size 2 cities can be happy without any scientists, but I have left them there for now so that we don't have to increase the science rate. Right now, it seems that our Pentagon Prebuild will finish 1 or 2 turns before we research Literature (thanks to growth).

Our leader is right outside Isin. You can use him for an army or for the Pentagon or Heroic Epic. I'm starting to think that an Army was the smartest thing to do now, but it won't make a difference since we only have 1 elite unit capable of producing a leader right now. If we do build an army, I would reserve it for Ancient Cavalry which we get next turn.

Finally, I left the movement of the Galley unmoved because we can use it as a suicide Galley if we want, but it's up to the next person.

Very nice turns. :goodjob:

Diplo update: Zulu still don't have either Horses or Iron. They have to be winning their war vs. the Mayans as they have 44% of the worlds pop.

The Mayans also don't have either Horses or Iron. They only have 8 cities.

Cathy is .... :lol:

Next leader really should put a unit (or 3) in Akshak. The Zulu can land there and we don't cross rivers well.

I'd almost be tempted to whip the settler in Agade next turn. Next leader should ponder that.

We may be able to capture Magadan even if it is size 1. It is the new Russian capital, and the city will claim furs for us. We can build a city on the Hill in the this strip of land leading to the city to create a more easily defended land route to the lux.

I'm not sure it is a suicide route to get from where the Galley is standing to the western border. Worth a try, and then we can do the mid-pt transfer trick of Greebleys if we need it to move an army.

Yom pulled a Homer when that near piece of land was an insignificant island. We cannot transport an army with 2 units in it! All of the current armies are stuck on our island until Astronomy. We'll have to send an army of regular AC because Yekat does not have Barracks. (Get workers there to chop the forest ASAP!)

Shouldn't we have an AC by now? I guess Yekat wasn't connected to the Ivory by turn 9.

I guess it's alright to accumulate cash while we wait for Lit, we can always run a deficit later. I think the AI will be less likely to go for Lit if we don't devalue it.

The leader really has to be turned into an empty army. We could be shipping it across in 15 turns.

We should also try to circle our workforce back to Ur. The capital is working 2 unimproved tiles at size 7, and will grab another next turn. Mined hills will cut 4-5 more turns off the G.Lib build.

Might start to think about skewing our builds toward Horses, since we know we'll be able to build Knights. We may also have >800 gold for upgrades when the time comes.

It's AW, and we're 27 units below our support limit. We can always use more workers. We're going to have a problem once we revolt, only a couple of our cities will be over size 6.

I think we have enough settlers being built. Four should cover most of the open territory and we should be able to capture a couple of the enemy cities.

Argh!! I forgot that the army counts as a unit!!! We'll need Caravels to transport them, won't we! Sorry about that team. On the other hand, we won't be able to cross the channel until Caravels either, so it doesn't make a difference. We should have Astronomy in 20 turns if things go as planned, though.

I'll start on this tonight.

Yom
Handy UP
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley

Don't forget to post your selections (and whether you want to play 1 or 2 additional AWS games over in the HNDY05c (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98021) thread). I'm assuming you are all in for at least 1 game unless you say other wise.

Ok, I got it. Getting a late start tonight, so I may not finish until Tuesday.

Very Quiet

Summary:
Capture fur City
Raze a russian city
Barracks for SoZ
No safe galley crossing in sight
Zulu have 2 cities on our soil, but not for long.
No Elite battles, so we still have the leader (in isin).
Improved tiles in Ur.
Lit in 9, Pentagon in 9.


Preturn
Move EW to Akshak.
I’ll save the leader until we have an opportunity for an elite battle. I’ll probably build an army, but I’ll save him in case something better seems appropriate.
Looks like there is a southern crossing S of Tugela.
Change SoZ city to barracks that we can chop & pop.

IBT
EW defends against Russian archer
We get an Acav. He’ll stay at home to defend SoZ

Turn 1 360ad
Workers head to chop barracks in SoZ city
Sending workers to Ur to mine the hills, to start a road to our furs, and to improves some core tiles.
Sword army is going after furs.
Archer army is going after Russian cities on flat land.
Sword to Akshak
Mm Agade to grow in 7 and get the settler in 9, so I think I’ll not rush. We can hire a specialist for the last 2 turns.
Don’t want to waste galley on a suicide run.

IBT
Lagash – sword – EW (we are light on spears)

Turn 2 370 ad
Moving into position.

IBT
Bad Time – sword – horse

Turn 3 380
No landings. Should have a couple of Russian cities soon. It will take a while to get the furs hooked up.

IBT
Spot 2 Zulu galleys & 1 Mayan galley
Lagash – EW – EW

Turn 4 390
Exploring & moving in for kill

Turn 5 400
Capture the fur city – a chain gang is building roads.
Cathy is down to 2 cities, soon to be 1 city.
Pentagon in 17, lit in 16.

IBT
Second Acav comes online. I wish we had a safe crossing! Still looking.
Lagash – EW – EW
Kish – sword – horse
Resistance ends in Furs R Us.
2nd Acav

Turn 6 410
Raze Kazan and capture 2 workers.
Finish forest chop & pop a barracks in SoZ city. We have 2 regular Acav, the rest will be vets.

IBT
Zulu want to talk

Turn 7 420
Promising Mayan border turns out to be a tease as it’s not a safe passage.
Lit in 14, Pentagon in 14. Next leader will have to watch the Prebuild closely. You can speed lit up by working a scientist if need be. Pentagon build will drop when the mines finish over the next 2 turns.

IBT
Akshak – barracks – EW
Lagash – EW – EW

Turn 8 430
Found Kutha
Pentagon now in 12, so slider goes to 10% to get lit in 11.

IBT
Isin – market – horse
Zabalam – settler – settler

Turn 9 440
Bad time starts a market since Isin finished it’s market and can now build military.

IBT
Lagash – EW – EW
Zulu have founded another City in our lands.
The sword army is on the way to greet them.

Turn 10 450



Notes
Sword army is in Kish, on the way to take the two Zulu cities. It can hook up with the 2 swords on the mountain near Kissura.
Active settler is near Kua.
Lit in 9, pentagon in 9 – so watch the Prebuild.
Kish needs irrigation, chop and a mine on a hill.
I poked around a good bit with the galleys. I don’t think any safe galley passage exists. :(
Leader is in Isin There were no elite battle opportunities, but you may as well go ahead & build the army. We’ll so have 3 Acav, and need to suicide a galley I guess to get a way to get them over there. We get a pillaging army, and we win this.
Not a since AI landed on these turns.
Keep an eye on the Russian galley near Orenburg.
Next leader gets to kill Russia off, and clear out the Zulu.
No AI action on the Glib.

Yom
Handy
Slinger UP
T_McC
Greebley

Mauve Alert! Mauve Alert!

The Mayans have Lit!

We should still get the Library (we're 276 shields in), but we won't get an SGL for discovering Lit first. :(

I just thought of something weird: We're scientific. Once we build the G. Lib we're going to get most of the MA. Will we get our free tech first, or will we get the Library techs first? It may mean getting Metallurgy for free, or heaven forbid both the Zulu and Mayans reach the IA, we might get two freebies in the IA. :lol:

Let's try to get two Galleys and a Harbor on both sides of the continent. That way once we build the Library we can put two pillaging armies on enemy soil. We'll almost assuredly get Astronomy and there are safe routes for Caravels on each side. Next leader should remember not to put another unit in the Sword Army. We should also be looking for opportunities to promote the AC before they get loaded into the Army. There is no reason not to use our MGL on another Army right now.

Next leader gets to see the Russians off. If one wanted to be sneaky, wait until the borders expand at Tver' to capture (5 or 6 turns). It's in a good spot, so a little patience can save us a settler. :)

We need Courts and Libraries once we complete the G. Lib and have our revolt. I'm sure we can afford Monarchy because we are way under our support limit now. We can always use more workers.

We may want to veto the settler at Erech and let it grow beyond size 6 for unit support.

Handy-Sid-Sumerians 450AD
Preturn – All looks pretty good. I really don’t like the looks of the zulu so close and a cleansing of that island would be nice. Library times out in 9 with the lit research. Play around with the specialists a bit and finally decide to stick with what is happening. Also don’t like the idea of Zulu getting a harbor in Amatikulu and the iron hooked up.
IT – Zulu found another town north of T’ver. AC and walls are built.
[1] 460 – Archer army takes a swipe at T’ver at size 2 and goes down to 1/14 before winning. Swords and Sword army move out. Lagash goes to a horse. Orenburg goes to worker. We really have a lot of unimproved land here, even in the core. Zulus have a musket in the new town. Looks like I am primarily looking to take out the Russians and then wait on TGL.
[2] 470 - Lots of worker moves, horse can’t den’t T’ver. I have the galley coming to pick up the AC and a cat.
IT – Isin-Horse>Horse, Akshak-Enki>horse.
[3] 480 – Take down the musket to expose an Impi in the new Zulu town. It was risky with odds at 58% but he performed admirably. Drop off AC and cat to take down Russian town. Lit and pentagon in 6.
IT – Sumer-Mkt>horse, Agade-Settler>Worker. We were attacked by a zulu galley and record a sea victory. Russia drops an archer.
[4] 490 – I don’t know what the Russians are eating but the spear takes no damage from cat or AC and then 8/14 archer takes 1hp before retreating. Now I know. Eating our units alive. However, we do take the Zulu town intact. Kill the archer drop off with Enki after retreating an E horse.
[5] 500 – Furs are in and lux drops to zero which only affects Ur which gets a taxman not shorting TGL build.
IT – AC, 2 horses, walls and a rax. Most military builds go to horses for knights coming up, others are workers. Zulus send an archer down from the north.
[6] 510 – Merely moving workers and units to prep for archer and attack on T’ver again in 2. TGL in 3.
IT- A few nice builds and Zulus start Copernicus. We lose an Enki in the forest to the archer. Oops, make that a LB.
[7] 520 – Kill the LB and go elite with a horse, cover with Enki.
[8] 530 – Our elite Enki defends flawlessly in the forest to a LB. Sword army heads north to make sure Zulu are NOT getting iron. Here comes TGL.
[9] 540 – TGL>Market. Ac ouple of horsies too. We have 1136 +59gpt for upgrades for next leader. Finally, the archer army does his job in T’ver and takes down 2 spears with an AC finishing off the archer and the Russians ARE GONE! City comes with 2 pop set to walls. All specialists go back to work or become a taxman. No science needed for this IT, waiting on the tech roller coaster.
IT – We get 14 techs capping out at Chem and Astro. No banking, PP, Metal or Music. Maya have navigation and banking on us.
[10] Researching is futile without librarys. Jump to Anarchy and pull a 7-turn. Yikes. I’ll leave off here and let next leader do the upgrades. Salt is connected near St. Petes. I moved all the workers and just left the horses and settlers. I also killed another LB with the sword army which delayed getting to the iron.

Looks lots better except for lack of metal and MT. Maybe that is a good thing. We don’t need cavs landing quite yet. We can upgrade quite a bit with the 1200g in the kitty.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-550ad1.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy05b-550ad2.jpg

Solid turns, Barbslinger. 7 turns of anarchy hurts, but we'll be better off in the end. I think we should focus on building workers in our fringe cities and libraries/infrastructure in our core. With Galleons, we should be able to transport 2 armies over to the enemy continent without the need for many units at home. I do think we need one harbor city though (most likely Sumer). It will build 1 Galleons and we will upgrade our 2 regular Galleys there. Also, we'll need 1 more reg galleon from Akshak. That way, we can keep the armies in the reg. Galleons and the 3rd units for the armies (1 ACav and 1 Sword) in another reg. Galleon and have an empty Vet. Galleon as protection (if this takes too long, we could always keep our 3rd men in a Vet galleon). We do want 3-unit armies there, don't we?

I wouldn't build many knights for now. We won't be seeing much action with them and Cavalry are only 2 turns away (they do only cost 30 gold to upgrade though). I think a little infrastructure would be best for now, with a few knights here and there.

Edit: And don't forget to get that Furs hooked up. That'll be our 4th lux, right :D.

Excellent turn Barbslinger. A civ gone, our homeland is almost completely ours, and we got the TGL. Who would have guessed we could get the TGL in 550 AD at SID?

Not only that but you cleverly gave TMcC 7 turns of Anarchy. Good thing he likes it so much.

I agree on clearing the nearby islands first. I assume we also have the leader ready to for a pillaging army for the Zulu and Mayans? I think we should go for a knight Army That way we can use it on defense too. I guess we can also get that sword army across now as well - maybe add a musket to it and use it defensively?

We will want to restart Pentagon of course. I would build it from scratch rather than wasting a leader. Pillaging will gain us more and we don't need pentagon until we start attacking cities on the other continent. It would be nice to have Cavalry before that happens.

Do we want to save some cash so we can go for 100% research to Cavalry?

Not only that but you cleverly gave TMcC 7 turns of Anarchy. Good thing he likes it so much.
Yes, I was quite amused when 7 turns popped up too. I wasn't quite sure who was next but when it said seven I made a mental bet that it had to be T_McC. Funny!
@ Yom. Furs are hooked up under the town. See 500ad.

the research rate was metal in 46 at -2gpt when I looked. Not good. Libs/Markets in all -50% corrupt towns will help. Growth in outlying areas with specialists too.

Can we do some real resarch in Anarchy using specialists? Scientists get pretty powerful in bigger countries.

Once we are monarchy we can irrigate all corrupt towns and get a large number of scientists if we so desire.

Can we do some real resarch in Anarchy using specialists? Scientists get pretty powerful in bigger countries. I'm sure T will fix that up. Besides upgrading a few horsies, planning a Zulu assault there won't be much else to do with the anarchy and all. :) :D :lol: :rotfl:
Sorry it gets funnier the more I think about it.

I think I'm going to play 15, and spend all of the money.

I think I'm going to play 15, and spend all of the money.


It is pretty amazing ho