This is the final spoiler for Classic GOTM 33: Greece.

For those of you trying to fill-in a bit more of your weekend before COTM 3 gets underway, why not spend that time writing up your final spoiler for Classic 33: Greece?

Qualification for this spoiler is reaching the modern age, or having completed and submitted the game.

Please don't post any maps showing industrial-age or later resources. :)

Continued from here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2037625&postcount=6)

750AD-1500AD

A rather peaceful period of build-out and research. We traded ourselves into the Industrial Ages and learned the secrets of Steam Power as a reward. This kick-started our massive research project that first produced Industrialization and Universal Suffrage (followed by switch to Democracy), then Scientific Method and Theory of Evolution. ToE gave us Electronics, and we built our third and last Great Wonder, the Hoover Dam. The next screenshot is the the minimap from this period, specifically 1330AD (I wanted to post the full map but coal and rubber were already visible, so...).

We had a minor second war with the Chinese to make room for a new city near the Forbidden Palace and to aquire spices. The war went smoothly thanks to the by then numerous Greek cavalry. Later the silly Arabs landed four cavalry units near an undefended city and declared war when we asked them to leave. At that point we already had a complete railroad system, a bunch of cavalry and a handful of infantry units so the safety of Greece has not been in any danger. On the other hand we managed to engage almost everyone in our rightful crusade against the Arabs, with the notable exception of Korea and (I think) Egypt who had an MPP with Arabia. The end result was an all-out 500+ year war between everyone and their mother, in which we didn't participate at all (except for the fact that we were officially at war with the Arabs).

At the end of this period, Greece emerged as a sky-high leader in research (Motorized Transportation to top it off, while others were stuck around the Corporation/Replacable Parts level), with a fully developed set of 10+ core cities capable of producing a tank every 2-3 turns and generating a pile of gold (700+ gpt besides keeping research at reasonable levels), and with the annoying jungle to the South of Athens almost completely gone thanks to the workers whose performance was boosted by democracy and Replaceable Parts.

We made peace with the Arabs, and started to build tanks...

1500AD-1605AD

The Greek Tank Juggernaut rolled over the continental remains of China, all of Korea and Egypt, and almost all of Arabia. Somewhere along the way, we also killed off what little the Chinese left over from India (the French and Spanish were taken care of by the Ottomans and Arabia centuries ago).

China wouldn't make peace so a transport was built and a few tanks were sent over to the island with the last Chinese city on it. In the process the Romans also declared war on us, and they wouldn't acknowledge our envoy even after many years. They had their last city on a one-tile island (Sicily? :) ), perhaps this made them so cocky, but eventually we researched Amphibious Warfare just to make a point and the aforementioned transport delivered an offer to the Romans that they couldn't refuse.

Finally, right before the last leg of our offensive (aimed at the Ottomans) would have started, a Domination Victory was triggered. The last screenshot shows the minimap at this point.

PTW 1.27f open

Goal: avoid conquest loss

We pick up at the end of the MA at war with France and when India had moved 2 cavs next to a town defended by one 3hp hoplite....

840 ad India has moved 2 cavs into our territory. We trade our way into IA - hoping for nationalism to get some stronger units for what we believe is the upcoming war.

Unfortunately, Steam Power is our free tech & it's already known, and so is nationalism.. Will research nationalism though because we need stronger defenders than Hoplites if India attacks -

840ad ibt Indians dow on us, first attack 3hp hoplite defends against 3hp cav and starts our GA, but falls next time and Brempalonia captured (with the ga, we went from 2gpt to 137gpt), and our trade deal for horses is up



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rrauclassic33dow.jpg


850 trade Mao MT for horses, sign MA against India with Caesar for MT, can't trade for nationalism, no one has saltpeter to spare. Send our knights to Kohlapur to capture the town and get us some saltpeter and deprive India of their only source.

860 capture Kohlapur with saltpeter :) , recaptured Brempalonicia

880 Capture Madras

890 capture Hyderabad, capture Dijon (French)

900 capture Delhi and Sistine Chapel, capture Indus

910 autoraze Dacca

920 capture calcutta (underdefended after capture), caputure Bengal

ibt lost calcutta :mad: , Dehli flipped :mad: (stack of 10cavs gathering outside city :) ), Dijon flipped :mad:

930 retook calcutta, retook Dehli - they have a source of saltpeter somewhere, took Bombay with Great Lighthouse,

940 capture Bangalore, Capture Punjab

950 India only has 1 city left - will let Rome take it so we don't break a deal and shoot ourselves in the foot in regards to tech trading.

960 several rioting cities due to WW, we make peace with France (had almost forgot we were at war with her after Dijon flipped back to her :crazyeye: )

990 ibt Rome finally takes last Indian city

1130 ad traded my way to scientific theory. Switch Universal sufferage prebuild to ToE in 11 (had investigated all US builds and would have won, so unless someone gets a GL from the wars they are currently fighting, we should get it)

1200ibt Egypt destroyed by Spanish

1220ad ToE in 1, traded techs around, now even with tech leaders and set to jump ahead
ibt complete Toe - take Atomic Theory and electronics and start 40 turn gambit on Radio

1270 - I now have enough $ to revolt to democracy and cover for an 8 turn revolution if I should be so unlucky, Korea knows AT so trade AT to France for worker, Sanitation, Steel, 609g,2gpt - no one knows electronics yet and I have 14 turns to go on Hoovers - will take the risk and revolt (got 4 turn anarchy)

1270 in the ibt I get a popup French are building Hoover ??? how did they do this - no one knew electronics - I thought I was safe to revolt !!!

1290ad Greek Democracy is born

1320ad - france built Hoover's with leader in a different city, change Athens to Intelligence agency with loss of 86s (I wonder if I would have got it if I remained in Republic - I can't recall how the years are spaced, but that 4 turn anarchy may have cost us it.) (During replay at the end, they had gotten a GL the turn before)

1335 Inch'on flips to us from Rome

1365 trade way into Modern Ages (free tech Rocketry)

At around this point, I begin to think I have a chance of actually winning and not just avoiding a conquest loss. I decide to try for a diplomatic victory and start prebuild for UN in Athens

1415 UN due in 11 in Athens - due in 28 in Korea (Hyangsan)

1430 Korea is moving troops into Roman Territory ?after Uranium - they don't have it and we don't have it - Rome and China are 2 nearest sources.

1435 Korea and Greece are only ones building UN and the only ones that know Fission

1445 still only Greece and Korea know Fission we have UN due in 5, Korea has it due in 24

1455 ibt Arabs start building UN (30 turns unless they have a leader from the war they are in)

1465 We have UN due in 1 give gifts all around everyone is polite or Gracious

ibt completed UN, and Rhodes flipped to koreans

Hold a vote and we win :D

Firaxis score 4808

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rrauclassic33thevote.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rrauclassic33endminimap.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rrauclassic33wintime.jpg


A big thank you to Ision's article on making the leap from monarch to emperor :thanx:

[PTW] 1.27f - Open

Previous post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2048173&postcount=18)

I decided to finish the game to see if I could pull out something other than a conquest loss.

I managed to hold on to my capital until I could buy peace with China in 1170AD.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/dsv_1170ad_map.JPG

I researched Nationalism and was working on Electricity. I had to break my MPP with Spain to survive so nobody would sell me tech. (I wish I had thought of it sooner.) I inserted 4 cities around my capital. When Rome was disenfranchised, I paid a huge gpt price to get a ROP with China. I built two cities around the chokepoint. but not on it! I had a settler to start a third. At that point China decided to crush me like a bug. Tanks, Mech Inf, and Modern Armor rolled over me in a single rush. Somewhere there probably was a Chinese tank commander saying "What was that bump?"
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/dsv_1710ad_map.JPG

So a conquest loss after all. My Jason's score was in the mid-300s. :crazyeye: All-in-all I would call this a learning experience. A few things I have read about and thought I understood, I finally think I get. I have learned more with this game than any of the others I have played. It makse me appreciate the victorys others have posted for this game all the more. My short list:

What I learned in GOTM33:

you don't have to build MPs - use the lux slider to keep them happy (that means from the first unhappy citizen on, not once you have a big empire or WW)
you should irrigate grapes :blush: (seriously, I thought you wouldn't get a food bonus for them with despot)
too much peace can be a bad thing - start a war to channel the AI elsewhere
don't ROP with all your neighbors - you might miss a good war
don't use MPP to get allies no matter how desperate you are
if you are going to do something to save yourself that will hurt your rep or waste your golden age - do it sooner rather than latter, delay is worse
beware of AI's baring gifts to Greeks :)

GOTM 33 Open Class

Since most of my game has prett ymuch the same flavor to it, I decided to just wrap it all up into one report than a few smaller ones.

Ancient Age

I had to preety much hang on for dear life as the tech pace was insane. I had to use my trading skills to their best to just try to keep up. Barbarians were a major problem, as the loss of some escorted settlers really hampered my expansion. i had to expand mostly south due to encroachment from China and India.

I learned the Republic in 250 BC and revolted with two turns of anarchy. Shortly therafter, I traded with Korea for Consctruction and entered the Middle Ages.

Middle Ages

I got Feudalism as my free tech. I have little to no notes on this age, except for the fact that I traded my way through all of it. I didn't research a single tech. Doing this I managed to enter the Inustrial Age in 490 AD.

Industrial Age and Endgame

I got Medicine as my free tech. I managed to trade it around for over 1000g and 100gpt. I tried then to be the first to Steam Power, but China ended up getting it the same turn as I did. After that research was pretty scarce for the rest of the game.

In 790 I finaly completed a hand built Forbidden Palace. This helped my finally get my southern cities to pull their weight.

In 930 AD, my tech situation was beginning to look a bit grim, so I decided to take drastic measures and start stealing some techs. Here are my steals:

940-Corporation from Arabs
1000-Steel from Arabs, which I trade for Rep. Parts and Sci. Method
1140-Atomic Theory from China. That one made me sweat, because if they caught me and declared, I would be history. I traded it for Refining.
1180-Electronics from France, which I traded for Combustion.

In the midst of all this, I managed to ferry some Hoplites over to Spain. I declared war, and one of them managed to survive, triggering a GA in 1110 AD.

In 1280, I buy Motorized Transportation from China, and go Modern. In a stroke of luck, I draw Fission as my free tech. I switched a prebuild I had going over to the UN immediately, and completed it in 1335, upon which I held the vote, which I won hands down.

All in all, this was a fun game. I never at any point felt in control of this game. I felt like I was being dragged along for the ride the whole time. I'm used to that feeling on deity, it's been a while since I felt it in and emperor level game. Great game, I look forward to the next one.

[civ3mac] 1.29 open

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2020743&postcount=4)

Middle Ages (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2046988&postcount=17)


1200 ad
I entered the IA, was given nationalism and started researching steam power which would take 8 turns. The MAs were primarily spent gearing up for my domination and securing resources. Still, the IA caught me somewhat unprepared. I hadn't anticipated the devastation that trapping the Chinese in the west would do to that half of the continent and I hadn't been building settlers to replace all the cities over there. Still the next 100+ years would tell the tale of Alexander's rapid expansion and domination over his sniveling rivals.

The world and the bulk of my army at 1200 ad (787 tiles to limit):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1200ad1.jpg

16 muskets
2 knights
53 cavalry

1300 ad
It took me about 20 turns to wipe out China, the biggest reason was that it was taking forever to get my troops positioned. My workers were now furiously railing to shorten the time needed to move my military and get settlers to the front. I spent the next 50 years getting the rails laid down and claiming the open land in the west. Due to having to wait for some poorly timed deals with the French and the Ottomans to expire I still had a few turns till domination though.

1350 ad (207 tiles to limit):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1350ad.jpg

1385 ad
Once all deals had expired I declared war on the Spanish, Koreans, Ottomans and French. In the matter of a couple of turns I easily triggered my domination by 1385 ad with a Firaxis score of 6516; Jason: Apparently I failed to write it down and I didn't get an e-mail confirmation this month.

1385 ad (68 tiles over limit):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1385ad.jpg

All in all a solid game for me considering. Things I should have done differently:

1. Hand-building my FP in the south severely hampered my game. With the corruption, it was a slow build. A much earlier palace jump would have served me better.

2. I slowed the tech pace down too early in the middle ages. While I wanted my cavs to be able to roll over muskets, I took far too long to get military tradition and I entered the IA very late considering that I reached the middle ages in 900 bc. In retrospect, I would have liked to see just how fast I could have pushed the tech pace. Sometime in the future I'll probably replay this game to find out.

3. Some poorly timed trade deals also delayed me quite a bit when added up. I spent more than a few turns waiting for deals to expire before declaring.

Middle Ages (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2037472&postcount=5)
As we enter the IA in 1030AD, we picked up medicine as our free tech, and had little trading opportunity with it. The only useful thing we could do with it, as a severely trailing, techwise, nation was trade it to Korea for optional MA techs, including chivalry. Because we had no saltpeter, the chivalry tech at least meant that we could start upgrading some horsemen to knights, and have some mobile counterattack force.

China continued to be a big threat. They were making the tech pace and were a behemoth militarily, right on our doorstep. I assume that the weak Greeks would be an inviting target to the Chinese, so immediately sign up ROP and MPP with them, to encourage them to look for foes elsewhere. This also gives me substantial protection from other civs. This is good, because we elect to start stealing technology, as a cheaper and faster means to catch up.

China goes on the warpath
Almost before the ink is dry on our MPP with China, they decide to attack India. This of course drags us into the war as well. The Indians have rifles and cavalry versus Greece's hoplites, MI, and handful of knights. It is not pretty. We lose Tegea, a first ring to our forbidden place city, but we otherwise are able to repel the invaders. China has very deep pockets, and uses them to buy in much of the rest of the world against India. China also has infantry! The Chinese juggernaut runs through the Indian cities, and quickly relieves any pressure on us. The Koreans join in and grab Tegea, and Indus right on our border in the south, but the rest falls to the Chinese. By 1300AD, India is destroyed.

Success for our cultural war
In an amazing turn for the books, Dacca, a previously Indian owned city, that was subjected to significant cultural pressure under Indian ownership, was conquered by the Chinese during the last great war. Now the Chinese had much more culture than the Indians, but shortly thereafter, the city finally flips to the Greeks. Also, Tegea, our only loss to the Indians, had been conquered by the Koreans, but it flips back to us.

Race for Theory of Evolution
Meanwhile we manage to steal steam and industrialisation, so that we can start a ToE prebuild boostered by a factory. But then our stealing luck starts running short. It takes four attempts to get Electricity, and we still need one more tech when the Arabs complete ToE. Our last decent chance to really catch up and get into the game vanishes.

Tech Stealing
As the price to buy, even from behind, kept increasing, the attractiveness of the steal increased. About every three turns we could do a steal immediately, and so backed by the support of MPPs with China, and then Korea, we repeatedly stole from the far side of the continent. Success, however, was varied. At times we would pick up a couple of techs in a row, and I would start thinking that we may actually catch up, then we would have a streak of four or more staright failures. Having the Intelligence Agency, and planted spys didn't really help either. It seems that the real benefit is just enabling you to steal during wartime (and other spy options). Very occassionally, I was able to supplement the stealing activity with a trade. Finally, towards the end of the age, after a particularly bad run on the stealing luck, I turned around and brought both motorised transport and radio to complete the age.

Korean War
The Ottomans finally get sick of our stealing their state secrets and declare war in the 1400s. In 1500AD, the Ottos drag Korea into the war against us. This triggers our ongoing MPP with China. We have replaceable parts at this time, so are able to hold off the Koreans, while the Chinese juggernaut rips through them.

1505AD - A landmark year. The Chinese complete the UN, and they build it in Shanghai which is right on our border! We start planning a tank rush on this city (we are still three techs from tanks at this point). It is at this point that our tech stealing seems to go off the rails, and really slows down. Shortly the Chinese are showing mech infantry. Then when we finally have tanks in numbers, we see Chinese modern armour lurking on the border. This causes another rethink, as our frail borders would not last long against such foes.

1635AD - We finish buying the last two IA techs to enter the modern ages, and pick up fission as our free tech. It is not tradeable, of course. We start a min run on ecology. We now think that we desperately need mechs to defend against China, and modern armour to successfully assault China.

1660AD - We go back to stealing in the MA and get computers off the Arabs. This gets us uranium, a lux and an MPP with the Ottos. But then,

1680AD - Fail in steal, arabs declare war.
1695AD - Fail again
1705AD - Fail again, but agent survives.
1715AD - Fail again, agent dies. Arabia now commie.
1720AD - Change to a research policy! Start building unis and research labs everywhere, since they are cheap.

Modern Armour, the Great Equaliser
In 1792AD we finally finish self reserch of ecology and synthetic fibres. We upgrade 40 tanks to modern armour. The Chinese are at war on the other side of the world, so it is time ot strike. Our plan is simply to grab the Un in Shanghai, and hold it until a vote is cast. There are only us, the chinese, the arabs, the french and the Ottomans left in the game. We need to win a majority of the vote, when cast, so we MPP and ROP both Ottos and France for tech. France is still cautious, so we also MA with her to get her polite. Then we MA with the Arabs to get them into the war on China. However, the Arabs remain furious with us.

Pre-war map
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_1705AD.jpg

In our first turn of war against the great behemouth, we conquer Shanghai (UN), Apolyton, Syracuse (both once ours, but flipped to China's culture), and Pune. The strategy is simple, knock out the radar towers that we can reach, and that can influence the local battle, then take the city. Modern Armour and Mech infantry is finally enough, because the remaining techs do not offer a substnatial military advantage over these weapons, and that becomes evident as the campaign continues.

Progress is slow, especially when we all but exhaust our initial 40 modern armour, but we start taking additional Chinese cities, and keeping them (or razing them).

In 1804AD - Shanghai flips back with five mech infantry defenders. The flip was not unexpected, as the city is near Beijing, and had about 18 Chinese citizens when captured. It is also easily retaken. Just how long does it take to get a vote, anyway?

In 1808AD - The Chinese buy the French out of the war, and their attitude to us changes back to cautious, then we finally get a vote! Did the Chinese know the vote was forthcoming? The outcome is 2-1 to us with two abstentions (arabs and French), so it is inconclusive! From here on in we gift 100 gold to both the French and the Arabs every 10 turns, and lock then into MPPs, just to get both at least polite to us. We will not have another inconclusive vote!

In 1820AD we finally get our very first leader of the game! He is turned into battlefield medicine.

In 1830AD we finally get our second vote. At this point I am tempted to say no and go for a most unlikely domination win. Every tuirn we are making sure progress against the Chinese, and it seems to me that the tide has finally turned into our favour. I am quite sure that the domination win would be possible (long and drawn out, but possible). However, I suspect that the diplomatic win is worth more Jason points at this time, so we stick to the plan.

Final territory in 1830AD
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_1830AD.jpg
And the Vote
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMGOTM33_1830AD_result.jpg
Proof positive it is never over, until it is over.

A tough map compounded with some early mistakes of mine made this game a real nail biter right to the finish.

Nice post and way to pull out the victory Sandman2003. I had a white knuckled grip on my mouse just reading it. :goodjob:

Thanks Demiurge. There were times when I was thinking a nice simple 1300AD domination win would have been more satisfying, but then a come from way behind win has a lot going for it too!

Civ3 1.29f Open

...I learned nationalism as my free technology. I started maximum profitable research (60%) on medicine. This would temporarily go to minimum research (was going to upgrade units) and later turned to 90% research. In 670, I sold nationalism to Arabs for military tradition, gems, silks, their world map, and all of their gold and gold per turn. I sold it to France for navigation, democracy, their world map, and all of their gold and gold per turn. In 710, I decided China was too strong to attack, so I disbanded some units, stopped all military builds, and decided to peacefully finish.

In 720, I established an embassy in Beijing. In 800, I learned medicine. I sold it to China for steam power and a lot of gold. I sold medicine to Ottomans for incense, horses, their world map, and all of their gold and gold per turn. I sold medicine to Korea for their world map and all of their gold and gold per turn. I also got free artistry from one of them, but my log says I bought it from both of them. I realized China was technologically ahead of everyone, a situation that would continue throughout the game. I would wait for them to sell a technology to other civilizations, and buy it from them. I started 100% research on sanitation (and was gaining 137 gold per turn).

In 840, I bought industrialization from India for ivory, medicine, my world map, and some gold. In 880, I sold medicine to Arabs for gems, silks, their world map, and all their gold per turn. Then, noticing the Ottoman city of Salamanca in Arabia, I checked the military advisor screen, and noticed Arabs had lost workers to China, Ottomans, and Rome (I already knew they were at war with China). I accidentally built an embassy in the Ottoman capital of Sogut. I purposely built an embassy in the Arabian capital of Mecca. The arabs were at war with China, France, Ottomans, Egypt, and Spain.

In 900, I learned sanitation. I bought electricity from China for ivory, sanitation, my world map, and a lot of gold and gold per turn. I sold industrialization to the Ottomans. I sold industrialization and sanitation to Korea, obtaining communism. I started maximum research on espionage. In 960, China declared war on India. Also in this year, I bought espionage from India for furs and some gold. I sold espionage to China for gold and gold per turn. I turned off research. In 970, China completed the Theory of Evolution, adding to their position as technological leaders. In 990, I sold espionage to Ottomans for incense, horses, and their world map. In 1000, I bought scientific method from Korea for wines, my world map, and some gold. I sold scientific method to France for the corporation, their world map, and some gold. I started minimum research on atomic theory.

In 1040, I decided to try to keep everyone technologically current. I sold one technology for everything they would give. I gave away every other technology I knew to everyone. In 1050, India and China signed peace. My strategy worked, since Rome (who previously was backwards) learned replaceable parts. In 1110, I bought replaceable parts from India for ivory, my world map, and some gold. I would sell every technology to everyone. I got gold per turn from Ottomans and Spain this time. In 1140, I bought steel from Korea for ivory and some gold. I bought refining from India for steel, my world map, and some gold. I sold steel to Rome for coal, their world map, and a lot of gold and gold per turn. I got nothing significant from anyone else. I took advantage of the coal by building railroads for 20 turns (and finishing some later). In 1285, China learned atomic theory and other civilizations started learning combustion. Since I was 9 turns from atomic theory, I decided to finish it myself and sell it around.

In 1330, I learned atomic theory. I sold it to Spain for combustion, their world map, and some gold. I turned off research and waited for technologies to be sold. In 1380, I bought mass production from India for 1723 gold. I sold mass production to Spain and Arabs for a low price.

In 1385, China started the United Nations. I realized the only way to beat them would be with a great leader. I started building some militia, intending to attack Spain, who only had one city. In 1400, Knossos wanted to depose to China, but China did not take it. I built embassies and signed ROPs with India, Rome, and China. I sent workers to irrigate land near Beijing. I then realized Rome prevented access to Spain. Since France built Besancon northwest of China, I decided to take my chances there. In 1405, I sent three militia to France. They attacked cavalry. Two militia died, and the other militia did not promote. A cavalry killed my militia the next turn. My continued attacks were unsuccessful, so I realized a space victory was the only achievable victory (I should have realized this sooner).

I started Sparta on an intelligence agency prebuild for the Apollo program. In 1480, I bought flight from Rome. I bought electronics from Egypt for flight and some gold. I bought motorized transportation from Ottomans. I bought radio from China. Getting rocketry as my free tech, I decided buying space flight was too expensive. I took a gamble and tried to steal space flight. The first attempt was unsuccessful, but I was not detected. The second was successful, so I got space flight for 6564 gold. I sold rocketry to everyone. Then I accidentally went to the next turn. Sparta built the intelligence agency, and started a palace prebuild (I did not have aluminum). I started maximum research on ecology.

In 1515, I bought aluminum from China for ivory, 20 gold per turn, and 36 gold. In 1545, Sparta built the Apollo Program, and Sparta, Pharsalos, and Athens started building parts. In 1580, I learned ecology and sold space flight to everyone. In 1675, I learned synthetic fibers. I foolishly did not sell it to China in between turns. In 1685, Egypt learned computers. I sold ecology to them to practically nothing, then bought computers for synthetic fibers and some gold. I sold computers to China for aluminum, coal, their world map, and gold. I started maximum research on miniaturization. I learned miniaturization in 1760 and traded it to China for nuclear power.

Starting the race for space, I started prebuilding using tactical nukes. In 1762, India and Rome learned satellites. I sold nuclear power and miniaturization to both, getting satellites and gold. I was curious about China's spaceship progress, so I planted a spy in Beijing. They had completed 9 parts, and had not started the last. I kept watching it to know when they learned robotics. In 1764, China declared war on India and learned recycling. In 1766, I sold stuff to everyone again. In 1772, China destroyed India. Egypt learned superconductors, so I bought it for nuclear power, miniaturization, and some gold. I sold superconductors to Rome and bought aluminum from China. In 1774, I realized that chopping forests near Athens prevented the city from building spaceship parts. So I built a factory and started an ICBM prebuild. In 1776, I bought the laser from China. In 1778, China learned robotics. I sold technologies to everyone, then bought robotics from China for 600 gold per turn and 14900 gold. I still had 3599 gold for espionage. I investigated Xinjian and saw that it would complete stasis chamber in 4 turns. I started building all spaceship parts and would have to wait 3 turns for Knossos to build stasis chamber. I joined workers to Knossos so it would use all available land, but it did not speed up the production. In 1784, I launched the spaceship to Alpha Centauri. My Firaxis score was 2224 (lower than China's). My Jason score was 3696.

This game was not one of my better games. The problem was having too small of an empire. I did not expand quickly enough, and my only war was in desperation. The moral is that early war is still important in a diplomatic victory, and a warmonger like me should not try to win a game by building.

Open PTW 1.21f

5CC Diplomatic

Ancient Age (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2022642&postcount=18)

Middle Ages (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2049967&postcount=22)

Industrial Age
I entered the Industrial Age in 730ad and my banking strategy was in full swing. Getting Nationalism monopoly as my free tech was like hitting the jackpot. The Arabs were willing to pay 351gpt for the tech and I was able to buy every bit of gold available for quite some time. By buying gold from the top researchers and gifting techs to the others I was able to start reaching and keeping Gracious status with nearly every nation. Continuous luxury deals with China and India begun in the MA also helped in keeping the two world powers happy.

Can Anyone Spare Some Coal?
In 860ad I stole Steam Power from Korea. As I suspected - no coal. Argh! It would take me most of the era before I would be able to get someone to trade coal to me. Everytime a 2nd source would be connected it would be traded away before I got a chance to make an offer. I even sent some workers to Rome to connect it for them and make an offer during my turn. However, when I got there they had just moved 1 worker to clear that jungle tile. I was finally able to trade for that source about 10 turns later but I was getting seriously annoyed in the delay in getting railroads up.

Arabia War
Once my Nationalism trade ran out my income dropped to -66gpt. Checking the bank ledgers I see that I'm paying Arabia 122gpt for a total of 1225g. A quick steal of Industrialization would cost 1263g so I give it a shot. Caught! Arabia declares war but my income jumped to 56gpt. The Ottomans signed on with the Arabs in the war but they both might as well have been on another continent for the threat they posed. Arabia landed a mini stack of doom (2 cavs, 2 rifles, 2 longbows - not bad for an AI landing party) near Delphi but they were willing to talk peace the same turn and I took no harm from the war.

I played nicely for awhile, making a few trades to keep up on tech. In 1140ad a golden opportunity showed up. Arabia got an Atomic Theory monopoly. This was one of the few times I had seen a civ get a tech and not trade it around with the leaders the same turn. It was just too good to pass up so I made a safe steal for 2862g. AT netted me Refining, Replaceable Parts, 153gpt and nearly 1000g. And hey, I have rubber! Woooh! I don't really need it for anything I'd want to build but it could come in handy in a trade.

In a fine example of AI stupidity the Ottomans beat me to Theory of Evolution by 9 turns and take Refining and Combustion - 2 techs known by 3-4 civs. If they had bothered taking the Electronics monopoly I could have switched my ToE build to Hoover Dam. Instead I had to build a very expensive factory.

2nd Arabia War
In 1200ad I was owing the Arabs 2582g so I decided to try a quick tech steal for 1503g. Success! I take Electronics and since they also have Mass Production I try again on the same turn for the same price and this time I'm caught. Another war with Arabia. This time I get India, China, Korea and Rome to ally with me - starting a cycle of wars involving the Arabs that would last the rest of the game and cost them a few cities. I almost feel kinda bad about that.

Modern Age
In 1330ad all the techs required to reach the Modern Age were researched, so I decided to open the bank and buy my way there in the hopes of trading my free tech to get the money back. 10,960g buys me Combustion, Radio, Flight, Mass Production and Motorized Transportation. I gain Computers as my free tech and discover that the Koreans had gotten that one too and had traded it to China. I was still able to get 4290g, 197gpt, gems and Amphibious War in the following deals but it could have been so much better if Korea had gotten, say, Fission for their free tech.

My Destiny Awaits
Once into the Modern Age, war started breaking out everywhere. I managed to stay out of it. Everyone loved me and I refused to sign any MPPs with anyone. The Swiss..er... Greeks need to stay neutral. :) I'd like to note here just how peaceful this game has been. Other than the few wars I started because of my thieving ways there have been no wars beyond a few skirmishes and nearly every civ has had the same borders for thousands of years. I was disturbed to see this new violent trend and, as the friend of everyone, I took it upon myself to take my place as a world leader for peace.

The United Nations
In 1350 I bought Fission from China for 9336g, 75gpt and switched my Battlefield Medicine prebuild in Corinth to the UN. China, the Ottomans and Korea also start UN builds but China was closest and was 6 turns behind. In 1395ad everyone but Rome and Arabia were gracious. Those two were polite. Invitations to the grand opening of the United Nations Center of Corinth (sponsered by the Greek Global Banking Corp), along with gifts of gold and tech to all (you can't be too generous on these occasions) were sent out. The first meeting of the UN saw Mao challenging me for the UN Secretary-General position. The voting results:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Greece5CCDiploWin.jpg

Greece wins 6-4!!! Alexander declares all wars to end and everyone lives happily ever after. The game that started out with the goal of killing everyone off ended in world peace. All thanks to Ainwood's positioning of resources. ;)

I'd have to say that being the world's bank was hugely important in staying alive in this game. For much of the game I was carrying a balance of 5000-10000g and staying near the lead in tech and I recieved few demands from the other civs and the only ones I payed were the couple I got from China and India. I got into a few wars but civs were reluctant to ally against me and each war amounted to nothing although any of the civs could have crushed my tiny army if they had really tried. In the end, everyone loved me. And isn't that all that really matters?

The Greek Empire 1400ad:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Greece5CCNorth.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Greece5CCSouth.jpg

A 5CC on emperor, on this map. Insane! :crazyeye: And a very good date as well. How are you going to top that? A 1CC on deity?

Edit/add: Due to the fact that I've been focusing on improving my domination skills, I failed to realize until too late that this game was particularly geared toward a fast diplo or space win. Of those who recognized it, I'm interested to see the results to see just how fast some players achieved those goals. :goodjob: to Ainwood for setting up a game where the tech-based victories will undoubtably challenge many of the domination games for victory date.

Im going to write just one summary about my game.
Was a very long game for me, with a late Domination victory achieved by modern armors and nuclear rockets :mad:

Ancient Age

I was constantly way behind everyone, couldnt trade for crap and everyone was annoyed or worse with me all the time. I hated it!
Then China declared war on me with a huge army, but a well built city wall + hoplites defended Sparta and Corinth very well so eventually they gave up. I even managed to destroy Nanking and pillage it to the ground!
Barbarian hordes werent a problem for me because both India and Korea colonized the southern territories and my settlements fastbuilt a city wall all the time.
I think city walls were the key to survive the ancient age.

Middle Age

A lot of hostilities on the other side of the world but we could maintain peace. China warmongered a lot, but for some reason they never attacked me again. Mao was rather trading luxuries with me
In the middle age I noticed that monstrous China is remaining in Monarchy so I decided I can out-tech them. By the end of the middle age, China and Greece annihillated India. I managed to take a lot of Indian cities, including Delhi, which fastbuilt a Forbidden Palace immediately.
Forbidden Palace was the key and probably my best decision in the whole game

Industrial Age

Traded around and slowly took the tech lead.
With building Theory of Evolution, I secured Electronic and built the Hoover Dam, boosted my productivity for preparation for a tough war.
I was careful that no AI could go near Motorized Transport.
I had to war Rome and conquer that small island (Byzantium in my game) for the oil resource to be able to build tanks.
With some 50 tanks, 25 artilleries and 30 cavalries I finally declared on China and dragged the Ottomans and Arabs into the war on my side.
The result was lethal, China was pushed back to Korea's 5 city. I quickly made peace and declared on the Ottomans with the Arabs while entered the Modern Ages.

Modern Age

The northern and eastern part of the Ottoman empire quickly fell before my tanks because they had no mech infantry yet. Also, the mighty city of Uskudar experienced the lethalness of nuclear weapons! I founded a few new settlements for larger territory.
Invented modern armor and upgraded every tanks.
For ancient age grudges, I killed the remaining Chinese!
Then suddenly the stupid Arabs demanded Rocketry, I refused and they declared war. I got the Ottomans to my side with giving them Ecology.
The arabs initially destroyed 2 of my towns, but they forgot that they are facing around 90 modern armors, 80 mech infantries, several tactical nukes and ICBM-s and 3 carriers full of bombers.
In some 15 turns Arabia was pushed back to the small island and a Domination Victory was achieved in 1904.

Summary

Was a fun game! City walls and the well built Forbidden Palace saved my ass when China was unstoppable. I never used so many nuclear weapons before this game, I think I used like 5 tactical nukes and 3 ICBM's in the war vs. the Arabs and 1 vs. the Ottomans.

Anyway, just like in the Euro 2004, Greece was victorious! ;)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27, going for space.

Link to Ancient Age spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2023445&postcount=33)
Link to Middle Age spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2044166&postcount=14)

Industrial Age Expansion

At the start of the Industrial Age in 370AD I was still having a problem getting research up to the maximum rate. I'd done nearly all I could with existing cities except waiting for them to grow larger and finishing improving their land. It was time to gain a bit more speed by expanding my holdings. I didn't have saltpeter available for Cavalry so I started building Knights.

In 500AD I had 24 Knights, declared war on China, and began my invasion. I immediately took sources of saltpeter and dyes, and began upgrading my Knights to Cavalry.

Losses were high but I kept pushing forward and eventually eliminated China in 640AD. I immediately declared war on India and launched an attack.

In 760AD I took over the last Indian city and she was out of the game. I now owned all of the land east of Rome except for one city where France had gained a foothold:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sirpleb33-3a.jpg

Rome was still in the Middle Ages and didn't even have saltpeter. So even though my forces at this date were just 17 Cavalry (losses had been high) I declared war on Rome and invaded. In 810AD I took the Pyramids which would give a nice boost to my growth rate. In 820AD I gave Rome peace in exchange for two 1-tile islands, leaving her with just one city.

Geographically Korea would be a logical choice as my next target. But I wanted to keep her strong for the moment, and on good terms so that I could trade for her free Modern Times tech. So I took an MPP with Korea and decided to head northwest into Egypt.

But in 830AD Arabia launched an attack on me and thus became my next target instead of Egypt. Arabia had an MPP with France. So I took an MPP with France and waited a turn - Arabia continued her attack and France took my side.

My war on Arabia proceeded slowly as I started encountering infantry. I pushed forward with combined stacks of cavalry, artillery, and infantry. In 980AD I took Smith's Trading from her which gave me a nice economic boost.

In 1030AD I gave Arabia peace for two towns, leaving her just one city. By this time everyone else in the world had joined a dogpile on her and I didn't expect she'd last long. She didn't. In 1050AD Egypt eliminated Arabia from the game.

I had poor leader luck in this game. By the end of the Industrial Age I'd had just two. I used the first to create an army and then built Heroic Epic. But that didn't seem to improve my odds. I only had two more leaders after that, one in the Industrial Age and one in Modern Times. Both were too late to be of much use.

Industrial Age Research

My free tech on entering the Industrial Age in 370AD was Medicine. I traded Korea Magnetism for a lot of gpt and she got Steam Power as her free tech. I traded back the gpt I'd just received plus ivory and Medicine to get Steam Power. I then boosted four other Civs (Ottomans, Egypt, Arabia, France) into the Industrial Age. I kept China, India, and Rome backward because they'd be my first three war targets.

I was happy to see that I had coal available though it wasn't connected yet. My workers would hurry to connect it and to then create a railroad network.

I learned Electricity in 8 turns, Industrialization in 6, The Corporation in 5, Scientific Method in 5, Steel in 6, and Refining in 6 at 730AD. Not great. I did tried hard to increase my research capacity but just couldn't get anywhere near the magic four turn rate. I think the constrained growth at the start of the game was the biggest factor in this.

My rivals had learned Nationalism in 600AD. By that time I'd given them Electricity to guide their subsequent research. Korea was first to learn Replaceable Parts, in 750AD. I traded for Replaceable Parts and it looked like that would be the last required tech my rivals would research for me in this game. Their research pace wasn't great either and I expected to get to all remaining required techs sooner by learning them myself.

I learned Atomic Theory in 7 turns, Electronics in 5, Combustion in 5, Mass Production in 4, Motorized Transportation in 4, Flight in 4, and Radio in 4, entering Modern Times in 1060AD.

Along the way I'd traded for Communism which helped a bit by enabling builds of Police Stations.

Modern Times Expansion

In 1060AD France declared war on me. This war didn't amount to much since France was on the far side of Egypt from my forces. I did take the one city France had established in the eastern lands. In 1130AD I made peace with France, putting an end to her annoying coastal bombardment.

Aside from the war with France I stayed peaceful from 1060AD to 1250AD. Initially my efforts were focused on rushing courthouses and police stations to increase research by every little bit possible. The Cavalry I still had from the Middle Ages wouldn't be much use in a war at this time.

By 1250AD settling and border expansion brought me to about 58% of the world's land. I finally had some spare production and by this date had 15 Modern Armor and 27 Mechanized Infantry. So although it wouldn't make much difference I decided to increase my holdings to just under the domination limit. I declared war on Rome and attacked. This triggered her MPP with Korea so that I was at war with her too. I eliminated Rome and captured four Korean cities in 1250AD. In 1255AD I took four more cities, eliminating Korea.

In 1260AD the Ottomans declared war and with a surprise attack took four of my cities. I immediately retaliated of course and it was no contest.

By 1280AD I was near the domination threshold and stopped expanding. I gave the Ottomans peace in 1285AD and that was the end of warfare in my game.

My world at 1285AD:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sirpleb33-3b.jpg

Modern Times Research

I got Rocketry as my free Modern Times tech. I gifted Korea to Modern Times and she got Computers. I traded Rocketry+3000g for Computers - I'd been saving gold for a while to be sure I could trade at this time.

I had two important builds preparing for this stage. The first one, Theory of Evolution, completed in 1060AD as I entered Modern Times. I took Miniaturization and Space Flight as my free techs. I then flipped a Palace prebuild to The Internet and that completed in 1070AD, giving me Research Labs everywhere.

With the boost from Research Labs, combined with a lot of squeezing (scientists, rushed improvements, SETI) I was barely able to maintain a four turn research rate throughout Modern Times. I learned Ecology, Fission, Synthetic Fibers, Satellites, Superconductor, Nuclear Power, The Laser, and Robotics.

Along the way I'd built all the spaceship parts but one. Upon learning Robotics I flipped a prebuild to the statis chamber and immediately launched, resulting in a 1315AD space victory.

I didn't even notice this. I've just started the COTM, and have forgotten much of the end of my game.

After emerging from a war with China in decent shape, and having used my Golden Age to build Universities everywhere, I was finally going to do some research faster than 40 turns. I of course went straight for the Scientific Method after getting Steam Power (same tech as Korea for the second time in a row), and with much of the world beating up on each other, there wasn't much other research going on. Even before building ToE, I was tech leader, and selling techs to everyone to amass a huge treasury. For the rest of the game, I was able to research at 100% and still get 200-300 gpt minimum, often times it was in the 600-700 range. I decided to go for Diplomatic victory, just because it is quicker than Space Race. Unfortunately, with my small empire, this often still meant 5-6 turns instead of 4. Radio took 8. Oh well.

Modern age gave me Ecology, the tech I wanted least. Korea, of course, got Ecology as well, and now my Palace prebuild in Knossos, the FP city built on the cows, which was due in three or four, had to be completely irrigated to slow down the build. I couldn't tell if the palace was all 1000-shields either, so I built four or five settlers in cities that had been producing wealth (didn't really want any military at all). With the settlers, I decided to see how far into Chinese territory I could get. I also began rushing Universities, Commercial Docks, and anything else anywhere that didn't have things that would help research, to bring fission down from 10 to 8 turns. I had everything timed perfectly, and I thought everything was set up perfectly. Arabia was still Furious for some reason, as well as China and Egypt (I had gotten an MA with them against China and then broken it as soon as China would accept peace). France, Korea, and the Ottomans were Gracious and India was Polite (Rome and Spain were gone). That meant to me that I would win 5-3 over China. But I was still planning to sign an MPP with India the turn before just to clinch it. For some reason, I thought that the vote waited a turn after building, which would be the time to sign an MPP. I didn't want to somehow get a war going. Well, the vote happened immediately, and India abstained, even though they had been to war with China and were polite to me. So my 1455 Diplo victory was gone. So I decided to try again. 1510 was still a decent time, and winning on Emperor was more than enough for me. I did, however, start working towards space victory just in case.

Just to make sure I had everyone happy at the right time, I signed MPP with China to keep them from attacking me, and just before the vote I signed MPP with India. Korea thought, for some reason, that India was the perfect target the same turn I signed MPP, and now I am back to war with Korea. A lone Korean cavalry attacked and died at the hands of a guerilla somwhere, and now China was in on the fun. Korea lasted about 7 or 8 turns after this, and I managed to capture a city and settle four cities in the place where China had razed two (I'll show a couple screenshots once I get my sister off that computer- if China was a human, they would have declared war for all the territory I stole through settling). So now it was 1565, and I didn't really want diplo at this point. I had tactical nuke prebuilds for all the spaceship parts using Uranium Egypt had given me for the secret of Computers. I was still getting huge amounts of gpt, though I was getting tired of playing at this point so I probably could have gotten a few hundred more if I hadn't accepted deals straight up after asking what a country would offer. I had almost every improvement that contributed to science in every city. Space race in the 1700 range seemed like a good possibility, and I figured that would give a better score than diplo. So what did I do when the "hold vote" box came up? I accidently hit enter, and I finally won the vote now that four votes would do it. Firaxis was in the 4000 range, Jason was just under 6000.

A 5CC on emperor, on this map. Insane! :crazyeye: And a very good date as well. How are you going to top that? A 1CC on deity?

LOL Well, I'm still looking for a conquest 5CC but I don't see it happening next month. With a week long camping trip and the start of school I don't think I'll have the time. A 1CC on diety is an intriguing thought though. :mischief: I just may have time for a diety 1CC conquest attempt. I can't imagine it would be a long game!

Well so much for the idea of a medal this month.

I'm at 1500 AD and have 2 SS parts done and working on 3 more, so I decide to check out this spoiler since I've qualified (in the modern age). My reading is going well with a couple of losses and a bunch of UN wins and I'm thinking hey, my 1600 AD launch might be good enough when

SirPleib: Along the way I'd built all the spaceship parts but one. Upon learning Robotics I flipped a prebuild to the statis chamber and immediately launched, resulting in a 1315AD space victory.

:lol: in 1315 AD my little empire had just finished flight and was 2 of 7 on radio, only about an age behind. Korea didn't live long enough in my game to serve as a bonus tech supplier, though it doesn't matter now.

I'm sure that leaving India strong and not coming anywhere near the domination limit is going to cost me a lot when the final scores are totalled. So my head for south gambit has be sucessful, just not anywhere near what a top player can do. It would be interesting to see how SirPleib would have done if he'd headed south like I did.

Towards the end of the game, I had fun seeing how much territory, and more importantly, how many resources, I could peacefully steal from China.

PTW Open

I just entered Middle Ages in COTM03...a good time to leave it and think about where to go with the game. As well as write up the final GOTM33...here goes...

Entered Industrial Age in 470AD. Decided to go for Diplo as I hadn't submitted a Diplo win before. Actually my first Diplo win was a GOTM32 replay where I tried the "Sir Pleb variant"...Always War-Diplo. More on that later...

Research. At the start of IA I had 3 turns remaining on the Golden Age, which I had used to put Universities/Marketplaces throughout both cores. I got Medicine as the free tech and started Steam, nominally at 5, but I turned it into 6 by paring research to the minimum for 5 and then losing a turn when the Golden Age ended and the gold reduced. If that weren't enough, I ignored Korea, figuring they would get Nationalism if I gifted them into IA, and missed out on trading for a required tech. I guess I'm still in "Vanilla Mode".

I had a full 2-ring southern core (albeit with jungle still hanging around) and about 1/2 a core in the north (China was too strong to go after until later in the game).

After Steam, Electricity in 7 and RP in 7. I haven't yet figured out working the AI to research for you and did all IA research myself. 13 Techs in IA at 5.2 turns per.

I couldn't be sure of waiting for ToE for entering the Modern Age and so built it and took Atomic Theory and Electronics. I'm beginning to get a better idea of what the AI is capable of doing for research in IA. Basically it seems the AI gets fairly slow about this time.

Wars.

590AD-India, who has the score building Pyramids, declares war out of the blue. Make my day!
610AD-20 Knights in my army
680AD-26 Knights
730AD-Rome sends a bunch of MedInf and the like at Ravenna which I had gotten for peace in the Ancient Age, I think. I only have a Spear defending so I gift the town to Egypt so I don't get the citizens in an uproar.
740AD-Destroyed the Solid Indians
780AD-32 Knights
830AD-Capture Rome...I now control the continental choke point.
840AD-I declare on Korea
880AD-Destroyed the Solid Koreans.
Army is 18 Cav, 9 Knights
920AD-Peace to Rome, leaving them with one island towm.
930AD-23 Cav, 9 Knights, 18 Infantry, 12 Arty

I finally feel up to taking on China and declare. The front was broad with China (northern core plus the formerly Indian towns). So I had to be sure of enough defense for the counter attack. Actually drafted 6 Infantry to fill in some holes...something I almost never do. (one of these Conscripts killed 2 Knights and redlined 2 others...and promoted) The initial assault was designed to leave China without iron and Saltpeter. I take 3 cities the first turn. And get the planned pillaging in as well. Lost 8 Cav and 3 Knights, however. Need more artillery!

940AD-China shows up with Infantry...they just got RP!
950AD-2 turns into China and WW shows up...GAH!!
980AD-China MPPs with Egypt who declares. I ally with France against Egypt.
990AD-Tiensin flips...it has Saltpeter. I'm an inch away from dumping the game. Another smelly flip, but I stay the course.
1000AD-10 Cav, 21 Infantry, 43 Arty
1080AD-8 Cav, 19 Infantry, 13 Tank, 50 Arty
1100AD-Destroyed the Strong Egyptians.
1110AD-Destroyed the Strong Chinese. They were tough...Arty and Cav against Infantry for most of the war.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HD_GOTM33_Spoil3a.JPG

The End Game. In 1140AD I rushed 16 Tanks and a bunch of Combat Settlers fixing to take on the Ottoman. And France as they were MPPed. Next turn I would have 41 Tanks, 50 Arty, 20 or so Infantry and the remaining cavs. I then realized that I was taking a chance with the Diplo win as Modern Age was due in 2 turns and I just don't have enough experience with AI Attitude to fiddle around like this. :crazyeye: So for the rest of the game I sat there with a killer army and did no conquesting, just being Mr. Nice-Nice to my little buddies.

Ever the pessimist, I had a pre-build for the UN timed for a Fission research of 8 turns. You know what happened...when I hit Modern Ages in 1160AD my free tech was...ta-da...Fission!!. UGH!! I suppose I should have had a pre-build for that situation as well. So I got to sit there with my 40+ Tanks doing nothing and just waiting for the UN to build for what seemed like FOREVER!

The turn before the UN completed I lavished my new best friends with 100g each. Declared war on Arabia, the biggest other civ around. Allied everyone against Arabia for techs. Threw in a free tech for all. ROPed and MPPed with everyone. And won the vote with Rome, the piddling little one town civ at that point, abstaining. Diplo win in 1240AD.

I was curious that Rome would not go better than Annoyed. Last month in trying the Always War-Diplo game I had Germany down to one town and had been pillaging it and bombarding it with a Battleship right up to the final turn. All the gifts, techs, alliances, MPPs etc. turned Germany from a Furious adversary into a Gracious partner instantly. The other civs in this game, some of whom I had been at war with at one time or another, all fell into line. Little Rome wouldn't budge, however. I guess I need to dive in the AI Attitude article again and figure out what happened.

Summary. I botched seemingly one thing after another in this game. In the Ancient Age, I struggled with Barbs, losing time developing as well as a settler, warriors and 2 workers. In the Middle Ages I lost a bunch of gold to the Barb uprising and didn't get the FP built until 170AD, delaying the southern core setup. In the Industrial Age I didn't use the AI to research even one tech. And I believe I bungled the late game Wonders, ToE and UN, wasting turns all along the way.

One strategic move saved the game for me and it happened in the Ancient Age. I built a granary in the second city, Sparta. I operated Athens as a 5-turn settler factory and Sparta as a 6-turn settler factory sharing Athens' Game tile. An equivalent 2.7-turn factory. I was therefore able to flood the south with settlers before the AI could get in there and had a 2+-ring core pumping out more beakers than the original Athens area. Two cores will cover a lot of mistakes.

I am continually amazed at the seemingly endless stream of challenges thrown at us by the GOTM Staff. Every game has something new to consider and react to. Too much fun...Thanks, folks!

PTW Open

I play only with despotizm. Building - only units and library. Wonders - if I have free leader.
930AD - Domination (If play ones more - I think around 780-800AD)
Clip_2.jpg

Tech - only 5 first tech. All from GB. Before Education I offer city with GB. After 70-80 turn I capture this city and take many techs from GB....

Open, Conquest Loss in 16xx.

Basically, I bumbled along after my humbling by China, got a nice core of 6 cities in the lovely fertile south, built token defenders, was nice to everyone (paying tribute, and so on), bought the odd tech, built stuff.

I was just curious.

I just wanted to know how many Spaceship parts China had built, since they'd neglected to hold a UN vote.

So when I tried to plant my spy and they declared on me, that was it, game over. Rather than letting them die on their feet, I let my poor Guerillas rush out and attack the Chinese Mech Inf and Modern Armour.

The Chinese stack surrounding my final (undefended) city contained 3 Armies and around 20 Modern Armour - overkill, I thought. They even shelled the surrounds before walking in unopposed. Talk about daft AI tactics!

Jason score of 300-ish.

Frankly I'd just got bored of press the Space Bar, and wanted it over with.

Neil. :cool:

Alexander was quite pleased with the results of the recent trade conference, while is country had received no new technology, the influx of 1100 gold pieces and the promise of 100 pieces per year combined from France, India and Spain, would allow him to continue his rapid research rate. The unexpected news that the Indian city of Indus had revolted and was now part of his republic made the walk to the palace even sweeter.

Another eventful day was winding down as Alexander sipped a warm brandy and watch the sunset from his new third floor palace apartment. The Peace Treaty with Rome (getting Byzantium); was offset by the Koreans joining the Ottoman alliance against Greece. Since he had seen no Ottoman troops since the initial landing that conflict had was now longer a hot issue.

“People of Athens, this University for Knowledge is hereby dedicated to the memory of Sir Isaac Newton, inventor of the fig cookie, to be a place of higher learning for all Greek children to enrich the culture and science of our great nation. The recent peace with the mighty Ottoman Empire can only add to the joy of this day,” Alexander proclaimed. “It’s too bad that Isabella’s nation didn’t survive the conflict, I feel badly for getting her into the war, but she could have refused my offer” Alexander whispered to his nearby confidant.

Another pair of trading conferences and for the first time the Greek treasury was over the $20,000 milestone, a place it would never fall below for the balance of Alexander’s reign. The Discovery of the Theory of Evolution in Corinth and the Proclamation of Universal Suffrage in Athens came on back-to-back days and Alexander barely had time to rest before another profitable trading session netted the Greek nation another 100 gold per year and over 700 gold at the conference. The Greek Republic would now remain at the leading edge of technology for the remainder of history.

With the completion of the Hoover Dam in Pharsalos, the Greeks now add the most productive nation medal to their collection. The trilogy of money, science and production would be the pillar that the Greek Space program would be built upon. Emboldened by the mutual protection pacts and right of passage deals with the Ottoman and Indian nations, Alexander called for his military advisors.

“This Korean leader, Wan Kong had the nerve to declare war on us years ago, I feel it’s time we gain a little revenge on this backwater nation. Gentlemen, you have some new toys I understand. How would you like to try out these tanks on the Korean army? I’d like to see a campaign plan by Monday, get to it.” Alexander ordered.

Brigadier Scoutsout watch as the clock passed six and started his tanks rolling, the Korean riflemen in Wosan, Nampo and Cheju were barely able to reach their weapons before the Greek Armor smashed through their defenses. The momentum allowed the Greek tanks to roll on through Pyongyang, Pusan and Seoul. From the turret of his tank in front of the Great Library of Seoul, Brigadier Scoutsout sent word that the Korean nation was no more.

The discovery of the radio and the unexpected breakthrough in fission welcomed the Greek Republic into the Modern Age.

The unveiling of the SETI Program in Corinth and the announcement of the Completion of the Internet had kept Alexander quite busy as the official ribbon cutter, as he had nicknamed himself. It was on his return from Sparta from a meeting with his new CIA Director that news of the demise of Caesar reached him and he just quietly smiled and continued back to the palace.

Alexander found himself in a bit of a pickle, he had traded an extra supply of oil to the Arabs (how ironic) and now through a quirk of border recalculation, found his remaining source to belong to India. “General Grahamiam, do you have enough troops to conduct a little land grab in southern France?” he asked during his weekly staff meeting. The byproduct of careful planning by his general staff would lead to the demise of France.

Once again Brigadier Scoutsout counted down the minutes from the turret of his tank and at the appointed hour set in motion the collapse of southern France. The infantrymen in Pompeii fought well, but were no match for the Greek tanks. The defenders of Heliopolis, Antium and Elephantine provided much less resistance to the Greek tanks.

Another glorious day was ending as Alexander sat in the rooftop café of the United Nations building in Pharsalos. The recent peace with France (with the tribute city of Grenoble) would be short lived due to the agreements with Peoples Republic of India and the Ottoman Empire, but that would not spoil a day where the encapsulated Indian city of Dacca had finally voted to join the Greek Republic and ousted their communist leadership. He knew his upcoming calendar was full with the Dedication of Battlefield Medicine in Beijing and the Apollo Launch in Athens coming up in the next couple of days. He had originally been quite content with his current holdings in France, but he had a sudden urge to attend a play and the only place to see the best productions would be Shakespeare’s Theatre in Paris, so he’d have to call the generals in the morning.

Recently promoted Major General Scoutsout could only smile at the new Modern Armor as it rolled past him on the way from Paris to Avignon. The French Infantry would have no chance against these machines. The battle for Avignon was brief but not without flair as a single Modern Armor won three consecutive encounters and it’s commander Hector was declared a Hero of the Republic. He was hurried back to Athens, but alas would have little to do but to command the only Modern Army of the Republic. After a Greek conquest at Tours, the troops were left to watch the Ottoman Marines beat them to the punch and take the final French city.

Peace had finally come to the planet and with half of the spaceship complete, Alexander thought the path to space would be a quiet one, when the news reached him that the Ottoman and Arabs had started arguing over border violations and he knew that his ride to space would not come before the first shot was fired.

Colonel Ankka was quite excited as he left the staff meeting; Major General Scoutsout had picked his Modern Armor Company to lead the upcoming offensive in the Arab nation. He knew the enemy infantry would have no chance against the awesome firepower he possessed and felt some amount of pity for the overmatch troops he would soon be facing.

The engine of his tank sat purring as Colonel Ankka surveyed the town square of Kufah, the world famous observatory cut fine silhouette against the western horizon. His troops would only have a short time to rest before they would be shipping out again. Word had come the Arab cities of Aleppo and Basra had fallen and that Mecca was under a fierce siege and his unit was heading south to lead an end run around the Arab stronghold.

The last couple of days were a blur to the Colonel as first Medina, and then Baghdad, Muscat and Mansura had easily fallen to his armor. Word had come the Greek Armor had finally taken Mecca and the two armored columns were now heading for the final Arab city on the continent and he knew peace would soon be at hand.

Air Group Commander Moonsinger was surprised by when Captain Bede entered still in his flight gear. “Indian transports, sir, their approaching Anjar” and soon the Arabs joined the other tribes in the history books.

The day had finally come (again) and Alexander packed up his bags and headed for the launching pad. The sudden roar startled him as he entered the command center and felt his heart sink as he saw the spaceship clear the tower and head to the sky. “What’s the meaning of this? How could they leave without me? Alexander demanded. Dianthus, the flight controller replied; “We waited as long as we could but you weren’t here and we had to hit the window. You knew the deadline was 8:30 am daylight time.” “But it just 8:20” said Alexander. “No it’s 9:20, you forgot to reset your watch when day light saving started last night. Don’t worry we’ve got another ship leaving in about two weeks, we’ll save you a spot” the Flight Controller said.

Editor notes:
Spaceship launch in 1635 AD, Firaxis score of 5652 in 33 hours and 30 minutes

Due to time constraints (up in 4 SG this week and gone this weekend) and the time required to give COTM3 it’s proper attention that level will need, I’ll only be playing to the QSC point (and maybe to the end of spoiler 1) and will wait for GOTM 34 to have Mursilis try to reach Alpha Centauri again. (My wife is very happy about that decision).

Jason score of 300-ish.
Sound slike there is going to be a spirited competition for lowest score this go round. And here I was hoping for the lowest scoring medal. :) Mine was in 1710ad with mid-300-ish score.

It's a little weird when I find myself wishing I had done a little worse. I was down one city at one point. I could have ended it right there and locked it up. :lol:

Sound slike there is going to be a spirited competition for lowest score this go round. And here I was hoping for the lowest scoring medal. :) Mine was in 1710ad with mid-300-ish score.

It's a little weird when I find myself wishing I had done a little worse. I was down one city at one point. I could have ended it right there and locked it up. :lol:

Ahh, here it is - I was at work when I posted earlier:

Game: GOTM 33
Date submitted: 2004-07-28
Reference number: 4581
Your name: eldar
Your email: you_gotta_be_kidding@spam_here.com
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: open
Game status: Conquest Loss
Game date: 1675 AD
Firaxis score: 604
Jason score: 320
Time played: 07:01:31
Submitted save: GOTM_33_PTW_OPEN_T326_1675AD.SAV
Renamed file: eldar_GOTM33_PTW127_01.SAV

I mean, I could've survived until China won. I was just bored, and it was nearly 1am....

Neil. :cool:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/ptw.jpg1.27

Link to Middle Age Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2062050&postcount=33)

A question before my summary:

I am familiar with Alexman’s great article on AI research, but does anyone know of a good thread or succession game that shows techniques for directing AI research in the Industrial and/or Modern Age?

Industrial Age and Endgame
Things went pretty much as expected in the Industrial age, and there was not much of interest to report. I stuck to my goal of Diplomatic victory, but I almost switched to Domination, as the earlier victory date probably would have put me over 10,000 Jason points. I stuck with it because I had put so much work into maximizing my research rate in the middle ages. I believe the only industrial tech that took more than 4 turns was Radio, which took 6. The reason for the six turns was that I did all my research on the bottom branch of the tech tree, and it was expensive when I neared the end. Industrialization would only have taken 4 turns at that point, but I was hoping the AI would research it for me. They had 26 turns to pick up Industrialization, but they didn’t even research a single tech. Good grief!!! So I was unable to get the AI to do any Industrial research for me. The only tech I got was Korea’s free tech upon entering the modern age, but it was a doozy: Fission. I traded Computers and over 130gpt for it IIRC.

Military
I confined Rome to their one-tile island in 510 AD (two turns after entering the IA). I went to war with the Indians in 540 AD, and they were eliminated 10 turns later. That was fun: on average I took just over 2 cities per turn. I had initially planned for that to be my last war, but I had so many Cavalry at that point (around 50), I decided to take out Spain and pad my score a bit. I attacked in 730 AD, and Isabella was eliminated in 10 turns also.

I had four great leaders:
#1 -- 330 AD, formed a cavalry army.
#2 -- 400 AD, rushed Newton’s in 450 AD.
#3 -- 600 AD, rushed ToE in 630 AD.
#4 -- 750 AD, rushed the UN in 1060 AD.

The End
The vote was between me and Osman: 4 votes for me, Osman voted for himself, and the Romans abstained. My Firaxis score was under 9,000; Jason was under 10,000. Overall, a good game for me, but it would have been nice to break the 10,000 mark again. I could definitely have done better, as I learned from reading some of posts in the thread. In particular, I need to improve in directing the AIs research.

Thanks
Thanks to Sir Pleb for his very informative posts (again!). I learned two things that will help me in the future:
1) By chance, my early moves were nearly identical, yet at the end of the QSC he had one more settler than me. I am sure that was due in part to better micromanagement, but I think the biggest reason was that he founded an early city to share the wine with Athens. I’m going to have to watch for those bonus-tile sharing opportunities in the future.

2) He researched Industrialization himself, then researched up to Replaceable Parts, which the AI then researched for him: very nice, and something I must get better at accomplishing.

Prior to taking Rome in 460 AD, I found this GOTM to be very challenging. It ended up being one of my favorite GOTMs, so thanks yet again Ainwood!

I have also come to the realization that I am hopelessly addicted to GOTM/COTM. I have been playing the Civ series since the day Civ 1 came out, but it is more fun now than ever. I think it is because it is such a diverse game, and because of the great interaction in the CivFanatics community. Even though I have been playing for years, there are so many players better than me, which keeps it challenging. I fully expect in 100 years to be in my home on the Mars Colony, sitting in my LazyBoy Cellular Regeneration Easy Chair, playing the latest GOTM for Civilization XVI. Of course, Drazek, Kuningas, akots, Sir Pleb, DaveMcW and a host of others will be in their homes on the moons of Jupiter, and still beating the snot out of me. Ah well. And perhaps as Denyd takes the first real shuttle to Alpha Centauri, Ainwood will be playing hide-the-iron and laughing hysterically. Laughing because he bribed the Intergalactic Transit Authority to send Denyd’s transport to some god-awful armpit of a planet.

Sheesh. I guess these are the kind of visions I should expect when I stay up half the night playing COTM3.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gifhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/ptw.gif Link to Spoiler 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2063706&postcount=38)
My quest for a fairly early conquest victory was "upset" by 2 things, one that really served me right, and one that was - dare I say it? - slightly unlucky.

1. Arabia was the last rival who had towns left. The plan was to sign for peace when they had only two cities left, so that I could get their one-tile-island Muscat in the treaty. But the problem was just that: Muscat was a CITY, not a town, at size 7. The Arabs considered it a far too precious belonging. By blocking the whales with a privateer I got it down to size 6. This was still not enough and I had to hurry some frigates. They blasted Muscat down to size 2 and I could finally sign for peace and eliminate the Arabs (uuuuh, the logic of that...) in 1010 AD.
2. Meanwhile in 1010, the Chinese had survived a 270 year long naval persecution after losing their last city in 740 AD. One red-lined Chinese ship eventually managed to survive for another 60 years, even though I spent my entire budget on privateers.

In all, a disappointing game. My main mistake was probably that I was too intimidated by the prospect of Ottoman sipahi. I should have taken out the Chinese earlier. All that moving around of troops made me lose enthusiasm. I should also have dragged the Chinese into an earlier war so that their Golden Age didn't come when I attacked them. The high points were some decent tricks with the Great Library and dedicated pillaging of my own resourses that included the sacking of Rome, a combination of which probably won the game for me.

The map was very good, with the choke-point giving some extra difficulties along with the lack of nearby bonuses at the starting location.

TIMELINE - INDUSTRIAL AGE

740 AD --- Jason forms an army of cavalry. Steam Power would have been nice, but it's 10 turns away with a deficit. Building privateers.
750 Ad --- Rats - all but Egypt have nationalism. But they all have 0 gold, which should mean that they have given all to China - no upgrades.
760 AD --- War on Spain - a lousy ROP rape but I don't want to wait.
770 AD --- 2 privateers spot Chinese galleon. It surivives. Madrid (2 riflemen) taken with a very small margin by about 20 cavalries. The plan is now clear: take out Spain, then aid Arabia in the destruction of Egypt. Finally, I should be able to do a 2-front battle against France and Arabia - hope they're not reading this...
780 AD --- Aeson appears. Hmmm, is this Orange-lover a Greek citizen? He hurries Heroic Epic. Chinese galleon sunk by privateer, but the Chinese are still alive. A Spanish conquistador captures a worker.
790 AD --- Chinese frigate and galleon located north of Byblos.
800 AD --- Chinese frigate sunk. Spain removed from map, one galley sunk, but they survive. War on Spain. Incredible RNG result: 12/12 cavalry army makes NOT A SINGLE DENT in regular rifleman in a size 9 city on plains.
810 AD --- Spanish galley sighted.
820 AD --- Spain lands a settler in my area and is dead. French galley destroyed.
830 AD --- Arabian frigate destroyed. Thebes taken. End of session.
840 AD --- 2 Arabian galleys sunk. Egypt destroyed. Chinese world map reveals that the missing ship is probably right a the very top op the map.
860 AD --- Peace treaty with France expired. Two towns, one city taken. One town autorazed.
880 AD --- France destroyed.
890 AD --- Chinese galley finally located, in Arabland. 17 privateers out. Galley is destroyed but the Chinese hang in there.
910 AD --- Last(?) chinese galley spotted. It's elite.
920 AD --- Chinese flip! Chinese galley sunk. Incited Arabia to declare war. they have an MPP with China. And then I take the flipped town. And then: What? still not dead? Is a settler hiding deep in Arabia? 3 Arabian cities and 1 town taken.
940 AD --- Attack on Mecca. Average is about one hit point per attack on its rifleman. Tough nut. Taken with the last cavalry in position.
1010 AD --- Despair. But after shooting Muscat down to size 2 they agree to give it away for peace. So now I can go on with my treacherous business. Arabia destroyed. But where are the Chinese? Unfortunately they had an old MPP with Arabia so we are now at war. Do I have to disband everything to make them surface? decide to disband all privateers to make them surface. They are the utter masters of hide and seek.
1070 AD --- Finally found the red-lined Chinese caravel. I was toying with the idea of a milked game since I had lost the chance of a conquest medal, but I'll leave milking to the real pros.
1080 AD --- Conquest acknowledged.

Open

Finally over. Domination in 1440ad. :blush:

I had a really bad start despite being on the right spot for a settler factory. My granary prebuild ended up as a temple when I couldn't buy pottery. It looked like I was going to play as a one city challenge for a long time and I didn't settle the second town until 1700bc. Barbs came calling shortly after that and pillaged improvements constantly. I also had several turns of rioting in the capital when barbs killed defenders who were necessary for happiness. At the end of the qsc I had 6 towns. As this map wasn't that easy it was all a bit difficult after such a start.

On my replay of the start in which I research pottery and didn't build the temple first I managed 12 towns in 1000bc. That would have been nice.

It was interesting to see what the game is like after a bad start. After the qsc I didn't play very carefully as a good score wasn't possible but even so I think the latter part of the game bears comparison with most of my efforts. I found it impossible to maintain an attacking momentum as my losses were huge. My first war with the Chinese triggered their golden age with riders and was tough. I usually build Sun Tze and Leo's but didn't have either of these and missed them quite a lot.

I did actually consider a non military game as my army was so poor, but instead I kept a rather careful set of wars going for the whole game. I advanced as far as Rome with a force which maxxed out at around 20 cav and 30 artillery. By then the western civs had infantry so the advance stalled completely. I placed a spy in Arabia which showed he had a similar number of cav to me but he had 90+ infantry to my 5 (+30 hoplites). When he attacked all I could do was injure his infantry with artillery and it proved too costly to kill off even 1HP infantry with cavalry.

I had a hideous misclick with the TOE which resulted in getting Communism as my second tech :mad: . Usually I would feel justified to reload in such a cirumstance but I played on here. This isn't just because of my lofty principles as I did unsuccessfully try to reload (shoot me if you wish) but I couldn't duplicate the great leader I had won the previous turn. It probably didn't make much difference apart from hardening my resolve not to try for diplo or space.

I eventually waited for tanks, and once I had these I easily finished off the French, Koreans and Arabs for domination. It took a long time to play though as I had to soften up targets with artillery. The Arabs had already killed off the Spanish and the French and Ottoman had killed the Egyptians.

no need to be embarrassed, offa. i just submitted a ridicoulous diplo loss in 1525ad. my firaxis score was 3552, those of the winning arabs about 3600. everybody voted for them, surprisingly.
no matter what, nice game, great map! conquered the chinese, the indians, the koreans and the romans. after that i was tired of warfare and decided to take the diplo short cut.

i hope my loss is good enough for highest scoring loser :D

p.s.: denyd, you are just (positively) :crazyeye: !!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif [ptw] 1.27f

Middle Age Report: 950 BC- 470 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2062433&postcount=36)

Entered the IA in 470 AD. Had the misfortune to match up with Korea in Free Techs, and they were both Medicine to boot!

8 turns for Steam Power, and another 8 for Electricity. This brought me to a key decision point in the game. My deals with China were expiring, and I'd used the Chinese Saltpeter to upgrade all my Knights/Horsemen to Cavalry, 22 total. I checked, and while several AI knew Nationalism, China did not! Final straw was that China had been at war with Korea for a while, and I could see that at least one core Korean town had been captured, so the bulk of his offensive units were away from home. I declared on China. Now Rome had finished off India, and owned most of the Terrain between Korea and China, so it was a trivial thing to trade an older Tech to Rome for a MA vs China; I doubt that I'd ever see any of the Korean Expeditionary Force of China's. And China was already at war with Arabia and a few other Western civs, so I was pretty confident he couldn't drum up any support.

So it was beat on China for a while, and they really had hardly any counter. I think I saw two, maybe three Cavalry from China, and about 2-3 Muskets per city. They got rolled up quickly, and were finished by Rome within the 20 turn period.

The Ottomans decided to land some units and declare War on me; I got all the West (Arabia, Spain, France and Egypt) and Rome to MA vs them. They were eventually the 3rd civ destroyed (after India and China).

Korea was the 4th civ that generally got beat up on; however, they had founded a city on a one tile island, so I was confident I could get a shot at a free Modern Era Tech from them.

Otherwise, the IA was pretty peaceful for me. Once learned I got Electricity into the AI's tech banks. They were quite helpful during the IA, Arabia and Spain that is (the rest were trailers). I got 1 turn benefit for Industrialization. I headed up the Corporation, Steel, Refining, Combustion and Mass Production Path, while they researched Replaceable Parts and Scientific Method for me. I then researched Atomic Theory and Electronics, and they researched Flight for me (quite helpful!, 3 Techs and 1 Turn off Industrialism).

It is 1030 AD, I was now 4 turns away from learning Motorized Transport, and from finishing TofE (my Investigate City operations told me I had nothing to worry about finishing it first, aside from a GL and the world was mostly at peace.) I researched MotorTransp, finished TofE, Learned Radio, with 1 more TofE Tech to learn. If I could get Computers as my Scientific free tech, I'd learn Miniaturization as my 2nd TofE Free Tech, and then use a GL I'd saved from the Chinese War to finish Internet. Scientific Free Tech was Rocketry. OK, now gift Korea up to Modern Era (about 12 Techs), and see if they get Computers. Korea gets Rocketry, too (not only NOT Computers, but a match also :cry: ) Oh, well, the RNG is telling me this is a Diplomacy game. Learn Fission as 2nd TofE Free Tech. Pyrrhus rushes UN, I give lots of gifts, and win against Ceasar, 6-1.

Diplo Victory in 1080 AD, 6685 Firaxis, and 8720 Jason.

A very fun game; getting the resources and figuring out a way to manage China seem to be the key challenges. I'm off to Cotm3 (with only 18 days left; I'd better hurry!).

They were quite helpful during the IA, Arabia and Spain that is (the rest were trailers). I got 1 turn benefit for Industrialization. I headed up the Corporation, Steel, Refining, Combustion and Mass Production Path, while they researched Replaceable Parts and Scientific Method for me. I then researched Atomic Theory and Electronics, and they researched Flight for me

Wow! Nice job getting the AI to do your work for you. How many turns was it taking you (on average) to self-research the IA techs?

Let's see ... 470 to 1070 is 60 turns. 16 required Techs, -1 Free Tech upon entry (Korea and I matched up), -3 Free Techs from AI, -1 TofE IA Tech; so 60/11 = 5.5 ish.

My tactic is to get key Techs in the hands of the key Research civs. China, Spain and Arabia were the main researchers, which made me think hard about taking China out. IMO, key IA Tech is Electricity; help with RepParts and ScienMeth is the best I can reasonably expect; Flight was a nice bonus; delaying TofE is a part of this as it gives the AI time to research. Key MidAges Tech is Education; SirPleb got both Banking and Astronomy from them, I believe, while he cruised up the bottom path. AA is a bit more jumbled, and ModEra, well we're only talking about Spaceship here; Diplo only requires Fission, and any other Victory better be sewn up already (I still have yet to use any nuclear weapons in GOTM, and ModernArmor only on very rare occasions.) For Spaceship, I leave Rocketry, Ecology, and hopefully Spaceflight (dare I dream they will also research SynthFibers?), while I research the Computers and Fission paths. Since one spaceship part was moved to Robotics, the Internet is a must. (But watch the culture)

btw, I liked your paragraph about realizing your were addicted to civ3. I'd prefer a spot on one of Saturn's moons, if I can make a reservation; I bet the rings would be quite a sight! :cool: And congrats; I believe you beat me by a turn!

IMO, key IA Tech is Electricity; help with RepParts and ScienMeth is the best I can reasonably expect; Flight was a nice bonus; delaying TofE is a part of this as it gives the AI time to research.

In looking over the IA tech tree, your advice makes a lot of sense. Thanks! Hopefully, I can put this into action on the next GOTM.

Good luck with settling Saturn's rings. Although, with those pretty psychadelic colors, you can count on clones of Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey and the Grateful Dead for neighbors!

Link to AA spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2045454&postcount=72)
Link to MA spoiler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2061315&postcount=32)

I completed the United Nations in 1495AD but I declined to hold the election. I was learning a lot about waging war in Republic and about war weariness from this game. So I decided to keep playing and try my first attempt at “milking” a game. Here are some of the things I learned and some highlights from the rest of my game.

The first turn of the IA
Having declared war on China during the MA (450AD) I enter the Industrial Age (570AD) in the midst of battling the largest Civ in the game. On the IBT to 580AD China and Arabia sign a trade embargo against me. China also signs a military alliance with Korea in the same IBT, which leads Korea to declare war on me. So I call up Rome & India and sign MAs with them against Korea. I also discover that my statement about China not having Riflemen was in error (as pointed out by Civ_Steve). Oh yeah, on the IBT to turn 2 of the IA Korea enlists Egypt in the war against me, and I’m waiting for Military Tradition to complete in 5 turns.

Fighting in Republic and War Weariness
The nice thing about the above sequence is that 2 of the 3 civs I am at war with declared on me, which earned me war happiness. I will use this to my advantage and not make peace with them until I am forced to. In 630AD I learned Military Tradition, upgraded 23 knights to cavalry, and went back on the offensive. 650AD Spain declares war on me. 670AD Arabia declares war on me. My Golden Age ends in 720AD as expected, but I learned that the GA has reduced my WW. I’ve been a Republic and at war with China since 450AD without much WW. On the turn my GA ends WW jumped up to about 36%.

Cultural flips
I also learn that cities with a flip chance as low as 1.20% will flip. I lost 4 cities which all had less than 3% flip chance, one of which was deep in my own territory. Also you can bet money on a city flipping when you have a civ down to their last city. I lost a Knight army when the fourth city flipped back to China, who’s empire at the time consisted of a single size 1 city. In retribution for these nonsensical flips I decide to do a little “un-honorable” pointy stick research in 790AD. I make peace with China and trade them Steam Power for Nationalism & Sanitation, and then I immediately redeclare on them eliminating them from the game before they can trade it away.

Back to War Weariness & Preventing the “Next Big Thing”
800AD I’m still at war with 4 civs, but they have all declared on me. My 66% WW (after the quick declaration of war on China) is gone. Korea who is my tech equal is hammering India. So to keep Korea from gaining too many cities I declare on India in 820AD. One key to fighting in Republic is to have quick precise campaigns. I eliminate India from the game in 850AD after capturing 7 cities and razing another. In 930AD Rome declares war on me, which makes 5 at war and they all declared on me. I capture Rome in 950AD and now I control the chokepoint and gain the Pyramids & Copernicus’.

Eliminating some civs
Korea exited the game in 1050AD.
In 1090AD Rome is down to the two 1 tile islands, but since they declared on me WW is not a problem.
1100AD changed plans from a DOM victory condition to Histograph when I learn that France & Arabia have replaceable parts. So I make peace with everyone. I do some trading to get even in techs and to acquire my 8th luxury. I’m only down replaceable parts, with the ToE due in 8 turns and a have a Great Leader in reserve to rush Hoover Dam. I continue peaceful ways while taking a 1-2 tech lead over everyone, until Spain was stupid enough to declare war on me in 1295AD.
In 1365 Spain is eliminated and I gained control of Sistine Chapel and the 8th luxury.

Histograph decision
In 1450AD I make the following analysis: FRA & ARB have no oil, OTTOs have 3 sources - so no tanks, fighters or bombers (FRA & ARB did not have the resource, while OTTO lacked the tech) - I've built up an army of 26 tanks and a 3 tank Army - FRA & OTTO have a MPP so if I attack one the other will attack me, OTTO is in front of FRA, so I'll declare on them first and secure the other oil sources. One major problem I have is there are almost 900 tiles between FRA, OTTO & ARB based on the game date I am leaning towards trying a Histo victory, but I need to eliminate those 3 first, good thing is I have 320 tiles until Dom limit so I can raze most cities and disband some of mine as needed.

I build the UN in 1495AD and could have won election by giving away techs and signing MPP and MA, since Arabia was the next largest and they were at war with Ottomans and the French. I also could have achieved an early 1500’s Dom victory, but felt I could get a higher Jason score by milking it. Since I had never done that I decided to go Histo.

Endgame
I eliminated OTTO in 1525AD and I now control all the world’s oil source.
In 1545AD capture Universal Suffrage from France.
I eliminate FRA in 1575AD.
I eliminate EGY in 1585AD.
I declare war on Arabia in 1590AD and eliminate them in 1620AD.

Milking
My Fraxis score at 1620AD was 4816, with 226 turns to play.
In 1705AD my score is 5529.
1760AD I complete Longevity, and Cure for Cancer in 1790AD.
In 1800AD my score was 6995.
In 1900AD my score was 9296
In 1950AD my score was 10361.
In 2000AD my score was 12178.
Final Fraxis score was 13669.

One real annoying feature was the game kept reassigning my specialist every time a city grew or pollution hit. I finally developed a system for dealing with the reassignments, but with almost 900 specialists this was really a pain. In one game I have developed a great appreciation for all those who play the HOF games.

Great Game, DJMGator13!! :goodjob: I expressed my concerns regarding your early Palace Jump in the AA, but the Southern Capital next to the Cows is very strong and you made good use of it!

i just submitted a ridicoulous diplo loss in 1525ad. my firaxis score was 3552, those of the winning arabs about 3600. everybody voted for them, surprisingly.

i hope my loss is good enough for highest scoring loser :D



Unlucky. However, I have often thought it would be cool to milk a game till 2050 and then lose a vote. The potential losing score would be hard to beat.

Now there's an interesting suggestion, Offa. Hmm...

[QUOTE=dvandenberg]Sound slike there is going to be a spirited competition for lowest score this go round. And here I was hoping for the lowest scoring medal. :) Mine was in 1710ad with mid-300-ish score.
QUOTE]

This is really strange. I lost much earlier in 1395 AD, but my score is higher, somewhat in 400-ish.
And BTW I had fun. Watch my score in 1255AD. I lost all my cities in that year and than I managed to respawn and servived for more 150 years.

This is really strange. I lost much earlier in 1395 AD, but my score is higher, somewhat in 400-ish.


You might still have a shot in the COTM. Your score may be higher as the COTM is at demigod which has a higher score multiplier than this game which was at emperor. :)

You might still have a shot in the COTM. Your score may be higher as the COTM is at demigod which has a higher score multiplier than this game which was at emperor. :)

Oooops. I think I was very sleepy and mixed up threads, somehow, I thought it is a COTM thread.

This is really strange. I lost much earlier in 1395 AD, but my score is higher, somewhat in 400-ish.

You must have been doing better with pop, happiness, and territory over time. Much better. :)

Civ3 1.29 Predator

My first post, so hi all. :wavey:

This is my second GOTM, and my first stab at predator class (although I have a question for the staff about that at the bottom of this post).

Ancient Age
I moved the settler 2N before founding, and could work both wines and the forest game after the borders expanded - good enough. All of my AA research was conducted at the lowest possible rate (or single scientist when I could afford the specialist). I started a 40-turn gambit on writing and actually completed it while it still had some trade value. All other techs were purchased outright or brokered among the known civs. Most of my purchases were from India and China.

My exploration only resulted in my meeting China and India before I broke down and paid India for contact with Spain in 1750 BC. I had nothing useful to offer the Spanish, so I purchased another contact (Egypt) from India in 1475 BC. Egypt was lagging a bit, so I eventually was able to trade for all contacts and broker several techs this turn. In 1250 BC, 5 civs (India, China, Ottomans, Arabs, Egypt) all entered the Middle Ages. I finally could afford to broker my way into the Middle Ages in 1125 BC.

Middle Ages
I drew Monotheism as my free tech (of course) and immediately sold it to India for Literature, world map, 346 gold and 4 GPT. The barb uprising was not a problem - only 1 horseman approached my territory. I think India took the brunt of the barb attacks.

At 1000 BC I had 6 towns, 2 completed settlers, and my military consisted of 9 warriors and 9 hoplites. I had all AA techs except Republic and Monarchy, plus Monotheism from the Middle Ages.

I had started a 40-turn gambit on Republic back in 1375 BC, but finally broke down and picked it up in a trade from Rome in 775 BC. I had to trade 4 AA techs plus my WM and some gold for Republic, but I was fortunate that Rome had fallen behind in the tech race (a consequence of the fact that they had been busy whacking Korea down to one city). I immediately sold Republic to 5 other civs for about 300 gold. I also founded Argos in the southern cow site in 775 BC, and eventually would jump my palace there. I did not revolt until 690 BC (after finishing a couple of settlers) and drew a 4-turn anarchy, so I was a Republic in 610 BC.

France declared war on India in 630 BC, and I would eventually use this war to drop the price of several Middle Ages techs (by signing MAs as part of the deals). This worked out beautifully, as France completed the Great Wall in Paris and held out for eons against all of the other civs. China also graciously provided me horses for most of the age in exchange for wines and some GPT.

I completed the Forbidden Palace in Corinth (west of the capital near the Chinese border) in 90 BC. At the time, I was planning on taking some Chinese territory to serve as my second core. However, China triggered their GA in the early middle ages and had a huge military before that plan could ever materialize. In effect, I played most of the game with only 1.5 cores.

I finally got iron hooked up in 150 AD, after having to build a road all the way from the southern edge of the continent. I upgraded my warriors to swords to provide at least some semblance of a military, and then unhooked it to start building horsemen.

I abandoned Athens in 310 AD and took the free palace jump to Argos (cow town). I also completed a 40-turn gambit on Printing Press in 310 AD (got it at monopoly) and managed to trade it around for Chemistry, Navigation and Physics as well as GPT. In 370 AD, I brokered my way into the Industrial Age.

Industrial Age
My approach to the IA was a bit unorthodox for me. I had been planning for a relatively "peaceful" victory condition for a while since China, India and the Arabs were military powerhouses throughout the middle ages. I decided to trade Nationalism (free tech) immediately to those three civs, and netted a total of 447 GPT and 840 gold. My research rate was hideous at this point due to a combination of low population, lots of jungle between my palace and FP, and sub-optimal FP placement. Even at 100% science, it would take me 14 turns to complete Steam Power at the start of the age, so I shut off science until 480 AD and focused on building population and rushing universities.

When I resumed research, I assumed that the other civs would prioritize Steam Power and complete it for me, so I decided to study Medicine. I completed it in 560 AD, and the other civs still had not completed SP. They were busy picking up optional techs from the middle ages, so I shut off research again to wait for Steam Power.

Although I was planning on a peaceful victory condition, I saw no reason to allow the laggards to stay in the game. I wanted to claim some needed resources and territory to increase score, so I started looking for victims.

Spain was weak at this point and also had horses in Seville (a coastal city with a harbor) and the Pyramids in Madrid. I DOW on Spain honorably in 550 AD, landed 6 knights and 18 horsemen, and claimed Seville (keeping the harbor intact) the next turn. The Ottomans hooked up a second source of saltpeter in 570 AD, and I traded Democracy to them for it. I rushed a barracks in Seville in 580 AD, and then upgraded my invasion force to cavalry. I used this relatively small force to methodically eliminate Spain in 650 AD, France in 740 AD (they had been at constant war since 630 BC), and Egypt in 810 AD. I also took out Korea's only city in 770 AD, primarily just to drop the price of techs a little more.

Meanwhile, China finally completed Steam Power in 650 AD. I stubbornly refused to research it myself all of this time, thinking that surely one of the strong AI would do it for me. I had even studied Sanitation myself while I was waiting, and traded Sanitation and a little gold for Steam Power in 650 AD. I then studied Electricity (7 turns), Scientific Method (5 turns) and Atomic Theory (8 turns) while waiting for the AI to study Industrialization (which India finally completed in 850 AD). I then studied the Corporation (4 turns) and completed it on the turn that I completed Theory of Evolution (880 AD). I took Electronics and Radio as my free techs, and then studied Refining (6 turns), Steel (5 turns), Combustion (4 turns), Mass Production (4 turns), Motorized Transportation (4 turns), and Flight (4 turns). Fortunately, the AI studied Replaceable Parts for me in 950 AD. I also completed a pre-build for Hoover in 1130 AD. My research in the late IA was pushed along by my GA, which I will explain in a moment.

The Arabs (who were relatively huge) demanded coal in 740 AD, and I caved in because I suspected they could take most of my lightly-defended Spanish territory. Then the idiots declared war anyway and captured a couple of my towns. No matter - I could draft rifles in most of my remaining Spanish colonies and held out fairly well until the cavalry could return from the front. I signed all of my friends up to MAs against the Arabs and took my time conquering them.

I was counting on triggering my GA with a hoplite defensive victory against an Arab archer or longbowman, and was leaving several hoplites positioned on hills around Arab cities. Unfortunately, they refused to attack! In an act of utter desperation in 980 AD, I used hoplites to attack wounded rifles in size-12 Damascus and managed to trigger my GA when a hoplite defeated a red-lined rifleman. This attack also reduced the Arabs to a single city on the southern one-tile island, so I signed a peace treaty with them and they were quiet for the rest of the game.

I decided to kill off the Romans to reduce the number of tribes to an odd number (still thinking about a Diplomatic victory at this point), and declared war on them in 1050 AD. I signed up China, India and the Ottomans to MAs against Rome - primarily just to keep the other civs occupied. I took my time with this war as well, and actually waited around for tanks to complete their demise. I eliminated the Romans in 1180 AD.

Leaders - I built and army with the first and rushed Universal Suffrage in 840 AD with the second. War weariness was never really problem even with all of my war-mongering. I only had to bump the lux tax to 10% for a couple of turns during the IA. I rushed Smith's with a third leader in 1050 AD.

Modern Age
I entered the Modern Age in 1150 AD, drew Rocketry as the free tech (of course), and then decided to check the spoiler thread to see if others had completed fast Diplomatic and Space victories. As I suspected, I had gotten too bogged down in the early IA.

I considered my options and ultimately decided to go for a cultural victory. I had about 18,000 culture in 1150 AD and it was growing at less than 400 per turn, but I could ramp that up quickly with some planning.

My new plan was to research Fission (I had timed a UN pre-build that could not wait), Computers, Miniaturization (build the Internet), Ecology and Synthetic Fibers (upgrade tanks to modern armor). I stopped war-mongering after eliminating the Romans in 1180 AD and focused on completing this tech path, rushing cultural improvements, and building a load of tanks.

I completed Fission and the UN in 1210 AD and buried the vote, completed the Internet in 1325 AD, and completed research on Synthetic Fibers in 1365 AD. I upgraded 64 tanks to modern armor in 1365 AD, DOW on India immediately and took them out in one turn (killing 44 infantry and an equal number of outdated units). I didn't use ROP abuse on India, but did sign a ROP agreement with China in the middle of this turn to provide access to all of India's cities. I did use ROP against China in 1395 AD and took all of their cities in one turn as well. I killed 63 infantry and about 20 rifles and militia in this single turn, and I never built or used artillery the entire game. All I can say is modern armor versus infantry is a cakewalk. I generated 2 more GLs this turn, and rushed Seti and Battlefield Medicine with them.

Easter Egg note: My fifth and final GL was named Aeson! :)

Other than the Arabs - who were relegated to Alcatraz, that left only the Ottomans. I declared war on them in 1410 and eliminated them in 2 turns (only because they lacked coal and never built a rail system for my armor).

The rest of the game was an exercise in ICSing and disbanding virtually all of my military as well as drafting and disbanding mechanized infantry to rush cultural improvements in corrupt cities. I had conquered a number of size-25 plus cities in India and China, so I rushed settlers like crazy from these towns until they were below size 10 and then micromanaged them to not grow above size 12 (it's too bad you can't sell off hospitals). I got bored with ICSing when I had 173 cities crammed in safely under the domination limit (BTW - Thank You Dianthus!) and drafted about 500 mech infantry to disband in cities. This was pure drudgery, so I have gained a great deal of respect for the professional milkers from this exercise.

My culture growth improved quite nicely:
Date Culture CPT
1190 AD 20019 380
1380 AD 40227 936
1455 AD 60220 1860
1505 AD 81375 2193

I stopped rushing cultural improvements in 1490 AD and rushed marketplaces for the last dozen turns just to increase score. My score was increasing by 58 per turn at the end, so I suspect that I could have wrung out around 80 points per turn if I had milked for score rather than culture. Some crude math suggests that the max score for this map is in the neighborhood of 25,000 points, so I will be interested to see how many points it takes to claim the cow in this game.

I completed the 100,000 cultural victory in 1550 AD with a Firaxis score of 8321. Jason was a bit lower, so I suspect the best date for the civ-wide cultural victory is somewhere in the 1300's.

Overall, this game was a real challenge until the AI crumbled science-wise during the IA.

One Final Question
Although I played from the Predator save, the confirmation screen after my submission indicated I played Open class. Is this typical?

And finally, I'll close with a montage of mini-maps. That Indian city in the middle of my territory never flipped to me, but two Indian towns closer to their capital did flip over to my side. :crazyeye:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Shigella33a.jpg

Welcome to CFC and GOTM, Shigella!! and :goodjob: on your GOTM33!! :)

You were a victim of your success in getting to the IA so fast; the AI will often go back and research optional MidAges techs before taking on the IA research.

Here is my submittal receipt:

Thank you, civ_steve. Your entry has been recorded and your upload is complete. Good luck!
You may confirm that your submission is in the system by checking the submission list.
Here are the new details we have recorded.

Game: GOTM 33
Date submitted: 2004-08-13
Reference number: 4672
Your name: civ_steve
Your email: wouldn'tyouliketoknow@notachance.com
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: predator
Game status: Diplomatic Victory for Greece
Game date: 1080 AD
Firaxis score: 6658
Jason score: 8720
Time played: 19:06:59
Submitted save: cvst_Greece33_ad_1080Vict.SAV
Renamed file: civ_steve_GOTM33_PTW127_01.SAV

So it definitely lists the game version (Conquest, Open or Predator) at submittal time.

Thanks, civ_steve

I think your assessment of my being a victim of my own tech pace is spot on. I recall Sir Pleb mentioning something along these lines in his spoiler as well. I also re-read your spoiler WRT IA research, and think that your approach makes a lot of sense. Being relatively new to civ, I have the tendency to rush toward TofE - basically ignoring the top branch along the way. I think I could have made much faster progress had I focused more on the top branch. I also could have easily delayed TofE until the late IA or early MA in this game.

Even had I managed IA research better, I think I still would have had little chance at a Diplo or Space medal. The pre-programmed free techs in vanilla civ really limit one's ability to broker techs at the beginning of ages. I think this handicap would exist unless a game were played with zero scientific civs. (Note this isn't a rant, as I think the tech-brokering skills displayed by the better players is something that should be rewarded.)

I probably won't attempt another Diplo or Space victory until I upgrade to PTW. I have been holding off on this because I don't want the victory screen telling me how much time I'm spending on civ. :coffee:

Re my submission, here is my receipt:

Game: GOTM 33
Date submitted: 2004-08-15
Reference number: 4685
Your name: Shigella
Your email: robotsmustdie@igettoomuchspamalready.com
Software Version: Civ 1.29f for Windows
Entry class: open
Game status: Cultural 100k Victory for Greece
Game date: 1550 AD
Firaxis score: 8321
Jason score: 8287
Time played: Not available
Submitted save: GOTM33 Cultural Victory 1550AD.SAV
Renamed file: Shigella_GOTM33_CIV129_01.SAV

My final save was not recognized as Predator class, so perhaps there are some minor issues WRT how data is extracted from the vanilla saves in this GOTM?

Yes - it looks like a typo in the Civ version of the save. I'll reprocess and correct classes for all Civ / Mac predator players.

Please accept my apologies. :)

I didn't end this GOTM because car crashing:(. I congratulate all players who successfully ended this game, it wasn't easy;). Before 430AD I captured China, India, Rome, Egipt and was ready to war with France and Korea (~60 Knight).