Noldy and Zarn have tied for governor here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95114). A runoff poll will be held lasting 2 days.

Well, if Noldy wins, he must chose between accepting Govenor or Domestic.

Interesting -- why bother with Noldodan having already won another position...

especially since Domestic Advisor is arguably a higher position.
Hopefully Noldodan will come and concede in one of the races.

Indeed, this poll should be closed for that fact...

It's 5 to 2 in favor of Noldy. It seems not that Noldy is wanted as gov, but I am not. If that is the case, I won't take the position, even if Noldy turns it down.

edit: Make that 6 to 2.

That is an improper assumption Zarn. You must consider the first poll when making your decision to resign from this race. Take a look at the third place contender (I haven't looked so if it's you this isn't a bash heh) and make sure you are content with them as our next governor should Noldodan resign and the third place contender is given the position.

I have to agree this runoff is pointless. If Noldodan does not want the domestic leader position, he should never have run for it, since it is one of the highest offices in the game. Since I don't think that is the case, I think we can close this whenever we hear for sure...

Noldodan has traditionally preferred the governorship, so who knows? I would keep it running until Noldy shows up.

This race is kind of like the ole Star Wars(Han Solo) vs. LOTR(elvish tendencies) debate, in DemoGame form. Just kidding, Japanatica.....please do not place your votes based on that criteria! ;)

That is an improper assumption Zarn. You must consider the first poll when making your decision to resign from this race. Take a look at the third place contender (I haven't looked so if it's you this isn't a bash heh) and make sure you are content with them as our next governor should Noldodan resign and the third place contender is given the position.

I'm just saying that if he wins, I won't serve no matter what his decision. I just can't accept a position I didn't win.

I'm just saying that if he wins, I won't serve no matter what his decision. I just can't accept a position I didn't win.

But at this point, you very well could win. It's 6 - 5!

Make it 6 - 6. Voted for Zarn...:D

7-7

Zarn 4 Gov!! Zarn 4 Gov!!

7-6.

I really don't think someone's winning one election means he shouldn't win two. Both elections were close, so I think that he has every right to win both. I certainly think he should win this one.

A good compromise would be to have Zarn run province two when its created. Chances are his city (Zarnia) would be in it, so that could be the capital of the province of the same name.

7-6.

I really don't think someone's winning one election means he shouldn't win two. Both elections were close, so I think that he has every right to win both. I certainly think he should win this one.

A good compromise would be to have Zarn run province two when its created. Chances are his city (Zarnia) would be in it, so that could be the capital of the province of the same name.

Don't get cocky (Han Solo line :yeah: ). He didn't win, yet.

This is a two day poll, so it doesn't matter if its 9-8 right now. And the fact is Noldodan is still not going to be here for this, since he's returning on the 31st (I think). So this still seems to be very unfair to him. I'll see if I can find his platform (if he posted it) and repost it here.

Not too interested in the compromise idea, eh? ;)

EDIT: Found it:

Unfortunately, I won’t be anywhere near a computer during the time that the election threads are up, so I have to campaign now, in this nomination thread. I have been Governor of 3 provinces in the past 3 Demogames, serving a total of 10 terms, a record unmatched by anyone in any office. So, I obviously have massive experience in the primary function of a Governor, preparing build queues for the province, and I have always submitted them well in advance of deadlines. But in the past I’ve been somewhat lacking when it comes to discussing the overall strategy of build queues. No more. As Governor of (Province #1), I shall make Citizen discussion the cornerstone of my administration. And now, I leave on vacation for the week. Good day.

So that's it. It may not be much, but its a strong case. No one knows the job better than him, and he's willing to take the people's opinion into account. That is why I believe he is fit for the job, and that is why I voted for him. Now, if someone who voted for Zarn could say why they did so...

And "he'll name the province Zarnia" or "he's the underdog." If you voted for someone for a reason like that you should be ashamed of yourself. :p

This is a two day poll, so it doesn't matter if its 9-8 right now. And the fact is Noldodan is still not going to be here for this, since he's returning on the 31st (I think). So this still seems to be very unfair to him. I'll see if I can find his platform (if he posted it) and repost it here.

Not too interested in the compromise idea, eh? ;)

That 'compromise' is completely undemocratic (I can't believe I'm defending Democracy :eek: ). There have also been times where I couldn't run, because I was away, and would have been back in time.

So that's it. It may not be much, but its a strong case. No one knows the job better than him, and he's willing to take the people's opinion into account. That is why I believe he is fit for the job, and that is why I voted for him. Now, if someone who voted for Zarn could say why they did so...

And "he'll name the province Zarnia" or "he's the underdog." If you voted for someone for a reason like that you should be ashamed of yourself. :p

I am not happy with you and your attacks. Stop the negative campaigning. This demogame isn't real life elections. Don't attack my voters. It is their decision to vote for me not yours. will forgive you for your comments, and I am glad you have brought up Noldy's stances; however, you must stop your anti-Zarn stuff now.

I wasn't being anti-Zarn. I was trying to say that people should vote for candidate's platforms, not for them because they're the underdog or because they have a different name in mind for the province. What the governor does goes beyond the election and beyond the province name, and I'm worried that people aren't voting for anything beyond that. I'm sorry if it seems negetive, but I have gained a lot of experiance in situations where negative campaigning is more common.

As for the compromise, that was just an idea. I was proposing it to everyone. Obviously the people would have to support it as much as you would for it to happen.

I'm sorry. Just post your platform and I'll try and shut up. :p

I wasn't being anti-Zarn. I was trying to say that people should vote for candidate's platforms, not for them because they're the underdog or because they have a different name in mind for the province. What the governor does goes beyond the election and beyond the province name, and I'm worried that people aren't voting for anything beyond that. I'm sorry if it seems negetive, but I have gained a lot of experiance in situations where negative campaigning is more common.

As for the compromise, that was just an idea. I was proposing it to everyone. Obviously the people would have to support it as much as you would for it to happen.

I'm sorry. Just post your platform and I'll try and shut up. :p

What I am for is in the nomination thread. It's still on the first page.

Hmm, I won't try to play like a member of the court, but there is no precedent for the 3rd place candidate in the general election to win the office if both candidates in the runoff withdraw. No precedent against it either that I'm aware of.

In any case, I'll vote for Zarn, same as I did in the 1st election.

Zarn, if the office remained vacant would you accept an appointment?

FYI it's now 14-10 in favor of Zarn. :D

Thank you for the suggestion of appointmnet. I will put it this way. If I lose, and Noldy takes Domestic, I will ask you for an informational poll or set one up myself. If the poll shows 70%+ approval, then I will take the office.

Also, thanks for the vote (twice).

Abstain...

Well, this is what I found on page one of the nomination thread for Zarn's "platform."

I'll run for gov. I'll just pretend I'm an actor.

Hey look everyone, Harrison Ford.

Well then. Not even a mention for the province name. Sort of...short. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you meant it was on another page. ;)

I have multiple posts. I answered questions, which together form my platform. There is no need to from a formal platform after answering questing stating the same thing.

Now quit the negative campaigning. The Demogame elections are not to be corrupted this way.

I must apologize, because at the forums I visited before I came here no one complains much about negetive campaigning. And if they did, they meant real negetive campaigning, not taking someone literally. You said the first page. That's whats on the first page, and nothing more. I took your word on it. I don't think that is negetive campaigning. I pointed out that the most vocal supporters of yours support not you but the name you would give to a province. That is a simple observation, and I don't think that drawing a rather obvious conclusion from that is negetive campaigning either. I didn't campaign against you when I said you should vote for a platform, not a name. But rather than post your platform like I gave you numerous opertunities to do, which would have not only shut me up but also showed you're willing to actually do something, you just accused me of negative campaigning. If you thing this is negative campaign, you're a very naive person. Even in this shielded world without cursing or political parties that's naive.

So quit complaining about negative campaigning. I'll put up with not being able to say certain things, but I won't put up with this. If you can't handle a remotely competitive election, then don't run against someone with ten terms of experiance.

Since you're too lazy to do anything besides complain about my asking you to do it yourself, I've posted your platform for you. I'm such a nice guy, aren't I? Not only did I do my platform (three pages long), but I also copied Noldodan's and collected yours. All that work for nothing. And all because of a stupid asterix. ;)

We are currently at war with a very close neighbor. Your city is near the border with another civilization (at peace), the neighboring city is their capital (!). Your city is the primary production city of the nation and currently has orders to build strictly military units. The war has been going on for some time now, the citizens are unhappy and will riot soon if any happiness (temple) buildings aren't going to be built. What do you do, defy orders and prevent rioting or keep the pour of troops constant?

It depends on the situation. If it gives the neighbor a good chance to flip the city (they have alot of culture) then a temple or similar improvement may be needed, but if the neighbor doesn't have much in the way of culture then I would just use entertainers in the city. I would remain open minded about any such situations and would listen to any advice given. If someone sees a better way of doing it, I'm all ears

Germany has just declared war on us, they are a stronger country than us but we could defeat them by holding them off and building military units. You are currently building large amounts of key improvements, most of them over the shield count for Swordsmen. You are certain that the immediate conversion to war-economy would do damage and slow down our development, yet without the key units steadily built up for the war, we will surely lose. What would you do?

I would switch the cities are building improvements not as vital (the ones not building wonders and much needed improvements) in a general situation, but numbers should be crunched before any action would be taken. I will also discuss production plans with other govs (if there were any).

How do you plan to decide upon buildqueues - will you hold discussions and polls on it or decide yourself, based on what the citizens and office-holders have expressed they need and want?

I'll poll where I have time and is a big undertaking (turnwise), and take advice for what I don't have time for or is somewhat trivial. On the other hand, I would put up polls once we have several cities to see what people want to do with each one such as military buildup, cultural buildup, or make some into settler, worker factories so I can get a general sense of what people want.

What do you consider more important: the stability of the government or the will of the people?

That's a hard one. This is a Democracy game. It's 'mob rule' my friend. I must go with the will of the people, right, wrong, or somewhere in between, it is what this game is based upon. I don't play to win, it's just a bonus when we do. Taking away the Democracy part ruins the game, IMHO.

Do you plan to use mayors actively as assistants who can help with preparation of instructions, or as merely figureheads who can promote RPG-type activity for their cities, or something else?

1) They will be assistants. They can do whatever they want RPG wise, but I need mayors I know will do their job. It would be their job to propose builds for their cities and citizen assignment (laborer, entertainer, etc).

Do you think micro-management instructions should be explicit (work this set of tiles) or generic (maximize food production for growth / maximize shield production)? In other words, do you trust the DP to use flexibility in balancing production to meet the type of goal you're after?

2) Micromanagement is one of the things that seperates a casual player from a higher level one. It is needed and should be done to max out what is needed. I trust the DP, but it isn't the DP's job to micromanage everthing. That's why there are Domestic jobs outside the 'federal' Domestic Department.

How would you respond if a DP makes a mistake on a build queue, worker action, or micro management? Assuming of course that there is no evidence that the DP did this intentionally.

3) People make mistakes, and complaining about it won't solve anything. If it is continuous, then there may be a problem. Since this is a game, it should be taken only lightly.

And of course, the on province name: "Zarnia, but Celeste is a close, close second. Maybe I should poll it."

There you go. Now, if you'd just been willing to do that yourself, there would have been no "negative campaigning," i.e. me urging you to do it yourself.

I hope you'll be more willing to do things yourself when in office, because I won't be your deputy. :p

I didn't want you to repost any of it. I don't need you to do it. There was no need to repeat myself. Anyone that wanted to know, could have gone to the nomination thread. :mad:

When I said first page, I meant of the forum, not the actual thread.

BTW, I do my own work.

I didn't want you to repost any of it. I don't need you to do it. There was no need to repeat myself. Anyone that wanted to know, could have gone to the nomination thread. :mad:

When I said first page, I meant of the forum, not the actual thread.

BTW, I do my own work.
I voted for you Zarn!(Both Times :D ), also Epimethius the only reason you are reposting the info is so you can help Noldy wins this election(and decides to take governor) so you can get domestic. I hope you know that in future campaigns i remember negative campainging done earlier

Btw, this is one reason I am for only 1 election per person

edit: sorry if I got epimethius mad or anything...

I voted for Zarn also, now the politics of what Epimethius are makeing me appreciate that decision more. Zarn appears to be more than capable and his only issue (in my opinion) is that he isnt going to hold your hand, if you won't do it yourself he won't do it for you which, indirectly shows me that he does do things himself. I personnally see both my conclusion and what brought me to the conclusion as good things anyways.

Furthermore, while what Epimethius is doing is not negative campaigning necessarily it was very clearly a strong attempt to discredit Zarn.

I cannot see how reposting the platform can be seen as unfair. I felt bad about what I did, so I posted the actual platform. If anything, its unfair to Noldodan, because he doesn't have any equivalent list of question answers. I posted both platforms, Zarn's being a lot longer and more detailed than Noldodan. I admit I did it with a bad tone, but still, the posting of the platforms itself was certainly not unfair towards Zarn.

Now I admit that I am not very used to this positive atmosphere without politics or obscenity or anything remotely bad, but that was not negative campaigning. Calling it negative campaigning is closer. :p

And yes, the reason why I am doing this is because I want Domestic. And I want it so badly because of how unfair that election was, to me and Noldodan. The VAST majority of the votes for Noldodan were made while I was banned, while a larger number were made for me after I was unbanned. I feel that had I not been banned, I would have won that election. If you lost an election for which you wrote a three page platform over an asterix you'd be bitter too. On the other hand, Noldodan has been away this whole time. Both these elections were horribly unfair.

I did not mean to imply your posting of Zarns platform as unfair. If that is what you thought I wish to appologize.

Lets all let this go and finish up this Election. =)

HAIL JAPANATICA!

Unfortunately, as IRL, many things will always be seen as unfair. I suppose it is just the nature of having so many differing opinions. Some people are even voting "Abstain" in what I can only guess is a protest of some of the runoff votes. What we need to do is just deal with the current situation, move on, and try to learn a lesson from all of this. I think we got here because there is no clear outline in the Constitution, but many people don't seem to care enough about the Constitution to contribute, discuss or vote on it. Don't get me wrong. I am not pointing fingers. However, if we don't clarify the issues, we, the people, will never have control of our destiny.

Epimethius, your repeated references to "being banned because of an asterisk", if true, come awfully close to protesting moderator action, which is prohibited by the rules. I was planning to actively work toward advocating your candidacy next term, until this popped up. If you make a bunch of positive contributions over the next 2-3 weeks this is probably a salvagable situation, so I'd recommend a change in tactics. ;)

Unfortunately, as IRL, many things will always be seen as unfair. I suppose it is just the nature of having so many differing opinions. Some people are even voting "Abstain" in what I can only guess is a protest of some of the runoff votes. What we need to do is just deal with the current situation, move on, and try to learn a lesson from all of this. I think we got here because there is no clear outline in the Constitution, but many people don't seem to care enough about the Constitution to contribute, discuss or vote on it. Don't get me wrong. I am not pointing fingers. However, if we don't clarify the issues, we, the people, will never have control of our destiny.

Welcome to the DemoGame, Comnenus. ;) Why do you think Apathetica had a legitimate run for our nation name?

In all seriousness, if Japanatica -- and this game -- are to thrive, more people need to follow your lead. Keep up the good work.

As for the Zarn and Epimethius Show, all I can say is I am disappointed by both sides.

Epimethius, it is quite clear that your only quarrel with Zarn was the fact that his success here would ruin your chances for a backdoor shot at the Dom seat. Don't think for a minute that no one saw through this tactic. Now I have no problem with publicly holding a prospective leader to task for his words or actions, but if that were the case your concerns should have been brought up in the original election thread.

As for our soon-to-be-elected Governor: NEVER refuse a request from a citizen, even if that citizen is proven to have ulterior motives. Look at Sarevok/Falcon run-off poll. It is quite clear that both of these candidates are willing to take any step necessary to prove to the people that they are the better choice for our nation. I did not see that happening here. Add this to your threat of putting your wounded pride(disguised as honor) before the nation's interests, and we hold a decent idea of what NOT to do when running an honorable campaign. Sadly enough, this tactic worked, as a triumphant comeback materialized before our very eyes! Yet, there was another factor at play.....

So finally, to the people of Fanatica, thank you for proving without a doubt why the multi-nom process does not work. Within the first few posts, this run-off election had all but been called for Zarn(with the help of one of our moderators) even when he was losing at the time. Apparently, this could be justified by Noldodan's victory in another election, and compounded by the fact that Noldodan wasn't available to make his decision just yet. So, slowly but certainly, the people made his decision for him.

Ladies and gentlemen of Japanatica, we should NEVER choose convenience over due process, and should always strive to stay informed as citizens and be forthcoming as prospective leaders. This thread should be enshrined as an eternal tome of caution, beckoning us to steer clear of behavior that is self-serving, evasive or devious, while also shining a bright light on methods that don't work. Hopefully the majority of citizens present actually care enough to take heed.

I'm not going to comment on things previously said in this thread, beyond this: bad, bad Epimethius. I TOLD you I would take Domestic if I won both elections, and I hereby declare that I am dropping out of the race to be the first Governor of Japanatica. Congratulations on your new post, Zarn!

Epimethius, you will stop trolling now. Considering you are now calling people names for not responding to your trolls, I don't know what else to call it. You will also not comment publicly on this moderator action or you will be banned. Eyrei.