http://www.uky.edu/~grissom/polcav.jpg
There are some common myths about the Polish Campaign. Although Poland had 11 Cavalry Brigades, the Polish cavalry never charged on German tanks. Secondly, the Polish airforce, though obsolete, was not destroyed on airfields, and remained active in the first two weeks of the campaign, causing some harm to the Germans. Skilled Polish pilots who escaped to United Kingdom after the German occupation, were of great help during the Battle of Britain.

United Kingdom and France declared war on Germany on 3 September, but did not come to their ally's help (see Poland's betrayal by the Western Allies). Poland, fulfiling her alliance with them, had not surrendered in 1939 but rather set up a government-in-exile and underground civil authorities as legal successors to pre-1939 government. During the German occupation, the Poles continued to be an extremely restive population under Nazi rule.
Source (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Polish_September_Campaign)

More Stories (http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history4.shtml)

I take this unit VERY personally. Any bad jokes about cavalry charges against panzers and I will not be happy. If that happens I will ask the mods to remove the entire thread. That joke is not funny, nor accurate. And if you believe in that, then you're still the victim of 60 year old Nazi propaganda. Congradulations

Download (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3868&act=down)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads//ulan_OvZ.jpg
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads//uhlan_W5A.gif

Dziekuje Mr. Wyrmshadow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :goodjob:

Oh, thats very nice. I espically like the wreath in the victory

:goodjob: , Wyrm.

And 2 things: If I remember correctly, polish aviation haven't the time to do its work. The Luftwaffe attacks polish plains when they are on land. And for cavalry, the italian one had attacked the soviet tanks on Barbarossa operation, and it was a strage. :(

Oh, thats very nice. Why does his helm change though? Or are there two versions?
Have you ever worn a helmet? No matter how cool they look, they are ALL hot and heavy, whether steel or Kevlar. So naturally a soldier tries not to wear it unless he is going to be in danger. Hence the field cap while moving and inthe default but it switches to the helmet when he's fighting.

I chose to keep the "czapka" because it's square crown is very distinctive.

Oh, thank you. Thats a neat Idea. I don't care if it is obsolete.. .Cavalry is cool.

Thats a real cool unit, great job. Do you think it would replace normal cavalry or come after?

I would have it come inbetween the Normal Civ Cavalry and Bebro's Modern Cavalry

Have you ever worn a helmet? No matter how cool they look, they are ALL hot and heavy, whether steel or Kevlar. So naturally a soldier tries not to wear it unless he is going to be in danger. Hence the field cap while moving and inthe default but it switches to the helmet when he's fighting.

Or did you accidently delete the helmet model? ;)

That was fast :D And Good.
Maybe it's just in the preview but it looks like there are some glitches where parts disappear.

That was fast :D And Good.
Maybe it's just in the preview but it looks like there are some glitches where parts disappear.
Thanks, it's my first biological.
Which parts exactly? I've said it many times that occasionaly pixels dissapear and its a huge pain. I even rendered all the animation at maximum resolution to try and fix that, but it only worked some of the time.

Very nice and needed unit wyrmshadow.

I added some extra animations to be used once Steph finishes his SSS. There's no really good way to use the Charge and Saber animations within the currentversion of CIV.

It looks like the horses Front Right Leg (from our view)... And the lance in some spots... I've had a problem with disappearing spots before. It seems to be a problem with the FLICster program not with the renders. I think I've avoided it mostly by making the frame size a little larger than normal to keep plenty of room between the unit and the edge. Not sure if this is the cause or just my imagination.

No, it's my program that does it, not flicster.

;) Good work Wyrmshadow

That was really fast. Good job :)

Have you tried making the lance a bit thicker? Maybe then those pixel wouldn't disappear? I remember that very thin or small elements on some of my earlier units sometimes weren't rendered correctly at unit size. Although that does not seem the problem with the legs, it isn#t as thin as the lance.

Great job for your first living unit. I could barely make out the lance, it's not the thickness, it's because everything is brown. I like the wreath, the helmet change, and the charge. :goodjob:

Thanks, it's my first biological.
Which parts exactly? I've said it many times that occasionaly pixels dissapear and its a huge pain. I even rendered all the animation at maximum resolution to try and fix that, but it only worked some of the time.

Have you tried using "super fine" anti-aliasing in the document setup? I had to do that to keep parts of my airship's propellers from disappearing in some places, and it worked rather well.

Other than that, good unit. I think the rifle could be attack A, charge be attack B and Saber attack C (or maybe just the rifle as attack A and saber as attack B, sorta like the guerilla with his Ak-47 and bayonet).

On a historical note, It really was too bad that England and France didn't attack Germany as promised, due to the fact that both countries had weak, peace-loving leaders who refused to believe that Hitler actually wanted another "Great War." If Chamberlain or Daledier had shown some spine in 1939, then Germany would have been crushed while it was still weak and didn't have it's armor and other military hardware fully upgraded. I'm saying this because I've been reading a book called Strange Vicotry that essentially details why, from a military and tactical standpoint, Germany should've lost the campaign against France, but, due to political shortcomings of the allies as well as some incredibly dumb luck still managed to win. I reccomend that book for further reading.

Nice one, Wyrmshadow :goodjob: !! I hope you do more biological units :) .

Have you tried using "super fine" anti-aliasing in the document setup? I had to do that to keep parts of my airship's propellers from disappearing in some places, and it worked rather well.

Other than that, good unit. I think the rifle could be attack A, charge be attack B and Saber attack C (or maybe just the rifle as attack A and saber as attack B, sorta like the guerilla with his Ak-47 and bayonet).


I used the Premium setting.

No, thereis no good way to include the saber attack. Must wait for SSS to be made.

I was just testing it out in-game and it seems to work okay if you use the Civ Cavalry INI file with all it's sounds and amb files.

Nice Unit, I also like how you cleared up the misbeliefs of Polish Cavalry charging Panzers.

*cough cough* blame "Lotna"

Umm I don't think I follow ... "Lotna" ??? Please elaborate.

Umm I don't think I follow ... "Lotna" ??? Please elaborate.
WINTER looked up the name of the movie that spread the myth.

For those who are interested, here's the IMDB entry for the movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053019/ . Roman Polanski had a small role on it.

BTW, wonderful unit, Wyrm! :)

Excelent unit :D, This unit would be good for the Industrial Age (World War I Age) heavy cavalry unit for civilizations that do not have oil.

Good unit!!!! Bad way to introduce it.
Can someone that has got Rise of Nations with the expansion, PLEASE convert these unit:
Biplane
Advanced Fighter
Flamethrower
Sloop
Bazooka
Slingers
American:
Continental Marine
Marine Riflemen
Marine Infantry
Assault Marine
Lakota:
Musket Horse
Repeating Rifle Horse
Iroquois:
Okwari
Persians:
Anusiya
Athanatoi
Arquebus Immortal
Indians:
Mahout
Gun Mahout
Culverin Mahout
Dutch:
Clipper
Fluyt
Brig

I agree with CivGeneral about that. The unit is great for the Napoleonic era.
I don't know if it is an Hussar, but if it is, there is already one in C3C and belongs to Polonia

I agree with CivGeneral about that. The unit is great for the Napoleonic era.
I don't know if it is an Hussar, but if it is, there is already one in C3C and belongs to Polonia
No it isn't. This is WW2, NOT a Napoleanic War Era.

I agree with CivGeneral about that. The unit is great for the Napoleonic era.
I don't know if it is an Hussar, but if it is, there is already one in C3C and belongs to Polonia
Its an Ulan (lancier).

Yes and the WW2 cav was also called a Uhlan. There's quite a bit of difference 100 years can make.

http://hungary.ciw.edu/1848-49/images/lengyel.jpg
http://www.m-model.pl/iiwojna/35003.jpg

WW2 was the last great conflict that Cavalry played a roll in, although, they have been used a bit in Afghanistan.

Good to see you branching off into new avenues Wyrm, also thankyou for teaching me something new, my family is from Poland, and I'd always assumed that Cavalry charge against the Germans was historically accurate. You learn something new everyday I guess.

I wonder how it came to be widely believe that Poland actually sent their Cavalry on somekind of suicide charge on German Panzers.

As for the whole Polish Cavalry charges against german Panzers, here's the two most "accurate" tellings I've been able to piece together.

#1. A cavalry squadron was overtaken by some Panzer's and armored cars, and they fought their way out.

#2. A battalion of german infantry was found by a cavalry company and an order was issued to charge the force. In the middle of the engagement a group of german panzers and armored cars came to the relief of the infantry "from nowhere". The cavalry was of cource outclassed in this engagement and they fought their way out, losing 20 men including their CO. Later on an Italian camera crew happened upon the carnage after the battle and asked what happened. The Germans said that the cavalry charged their tanks. There was even a propaganda filmed made in about 1941-42 that "renacted" this battle.

In both stories its either an Italian or German documentary film crew that either filmed the dead bodies or the breakout from the armored force.

Some good researching Wyrmshadow, I suppose the myth may have stuck over the years because it might have represented how Poland fought on valiently and alone against Germany while her Allies sat Idely by. But thats just the way I made sense of Nazi propaganda becoming almost accepted history.

I made sense of Nazi propaganda becoming almost accepted history.

BINGO! And why I put that most strenuous threat at the begining of this thread.

I agree with CivGeneral about that. The unit is great for the Napoleonic era.
I don't know if it is an Hussar, but if it is, there is already one in C3C and belongs to Polonia
Napoleonic Era?! :confused: I dont think that this unit would fit well in the Enlightement era (Note: My Mod uses a losely baised ages from RoN) I would see that this unit is a good offensive unit for the Late Industrial Age (World War I). Note that I made an emphasis that the Late Industrial Age is the World War I era in my mind, the Atomic Age would represent the World War II, Korean War Conflicts.

One of my friends in middle school had a great uncle who was a Polish cavalry officer. I asked him about the whole tank vs. cavalry thing. His response was: "If we had used our cavalry against German tanks then we would have ambushed them from the rear, leapt on their tanks, and decapitated the commanders since they were always sticking their heads out of the turret." He explained to me that the Polish commanders knew that mounted cavalry was relatively useless against tanks, but useful against infantry. I don't know much about the Polish use of cavalry but his unit was used to ambush lightly defended machinegun nests and other infantry positions on the German flanks. They also ran through one artillery unit.
Just thought I would share.

One of my friends in middle school had a great uncle who was a Polish cavalry officer. I asked him about the whole tank vs. cavalry thing. His response was: "If we had used our cavalry against German tanks then we would have ambushed them from the rear, leapt on their tanks, and decapitated the commanders since they were always sticking their heads out of the turret." He explained to me that the Polish commanders knew that mounted cavalry was relatively useless against tanks, but useful against infantry. I don't know much about the Polish use of cavalry but his unit was used to ambush lightly defended machinegun nests and other infantry positions on the German flanks. They also ran through one artillery unit.
Just thought I would share.

I remember reading from a veteran's account that a similar strategy was attempted at the battle of Corriegor in the Phillipines (the last stand of allied and American troops during the 1942 Japanese Invasion). A unit of Philipino Cavalry, aided by USMC heavy macinegunners attempted to destroy several Japanese tanks in such a fashion. The Marines drew the tank's attention, while the Philipino Cavary rode up beside the tanks with grenades and attempted to stuff them in the tank treads. It didn't work, and the Philipinos got wiped out. Of course, if the Japanese were dumb enough to ride with their commander's head poking out of the hatch, they could have just tossed the grenades into the open hatch and possibly held off the Japanese until they could get evacuated. As it turned out, every Marine and Philipino Militaman who wasn't killed during the battle was captured and put on the infamous Bataan Death March, where several hundred more died of exposure and malnutrition. :(

I believe the Germans were sticking their heads out of their tanks to get a better look, its kinda hard to use binoculars while your stuffed inside an armored vehical :). But I bet the Poles could have knocked out a Panzer I or II with just a gernade, the armor on those things could only stop bullets. Plus the Germans painted big white targets, I mean crosses, on their tanks.

I believe the Germans were sticking their heads out of their tanks to get a better look, its kinda hard to use binoculars while your stuffed inside an armored vehical :). But I bet the Poles could have knocked out a Panzer I or II with just a gernade, the armor on those things could only stop bullets. Plus the Germans painted big white targets, I mean crosses, on their tanks.

I believe it was called the "balkankruese" you germans please correct my spelling. It made great bulls- eyes for POlish anti-tank gunners. This lead to the Wehrmacht drastically redesigning their insignia along the lines of the Luft.

As for the commander sticking his head out of the turret...Any good tank commander worth his salt knows when and when not to be exposed. You can't see much "buttoned up" but it's their own fault that they don't close the hatch at the first sign of trouble. Although I assume many tank commanders were lost due to snipers and tanks themselves were vulnerable to grenades and Molotov Cocktails over the engine grates. The Maybach engine would flair up much more quickly than the Russian diesels.

Whoa! Is this the history forum or C&C? :crazyeye:

Seriously, nice unit Wyrm. It's also been an interesting read on the history of the Polish Calvary. Like many, I had heard that they attacked the German tanks in WWII. Good to hear their side of it.

Thanks Wyrmshadow, for the unit and the intro. Thanks to all the others who have posted true facts about Poland's military history as well. I grew up in the US wih Poland being the butt of many jokes, and never really feeling pride for that part of my heritage. When I started researching Poland to add it to my mod those feelings changed. My nine-year old son's favorite civ to play is Poland, and he is proud of his Polish ancestry.

i would like to see move not-vichel units from you
good work!

Nice unit indeed!! A very clean looking animation.

As for your quote:

You are correct. The Polish continued to fight bravely alongside the allies. The polish airborne divisions were very important, especially in Operation Market Garden.

also, HIKARO made a good point about luck.

on the topic of luck and Poland:

-Hitler took a gamble when invading Poland; with a strong concentration on the east, Germany was completely vulnerable along the French border. COMPLETELY, and Hitler knew this. It is proposed that if France had attacked, with as small of a force as they had at the time, Germany would have crumbled.

-the weather could not have cooperated moreso. The dirt roads throughout poland would have made the German tactic of lightning war nearly unattainable. Only one day of rain would've made the campaign much more difficult. the roads remained crisp and dry instead. Poles referred to this as Hitler Weather.

As with all things in life, luck comes and goes; from the poker table, to the battlefield.

Great unit!!!:goodjob:
This goes right in my WWII mod.:)

Great unit Wyrmshadow!! And great history lesson... ;)

I don't really see the big deal about the fact or fiction about Polish cavalrymen charging tanks. Although it was German propaganda, it made it sound like the Polish cavalrymen were more heroic.. I guess not.

I've been hearing everyone talk about how WWII became the end for massive cavalry use. The Indo-Chinese wars of the 60's and 70's were the last of wars where cavalry was used on the large scale.

Well, cavalry really weren't used much during World War I either... not very effectively anyway. Even during the Civil War, 90% of the cavalry purpose was to either A) fight other cavalry, or B) scout. And even when they did fight other cavalry, they often times dismounted.

The horse is only useful to get from place to place. And for that reason, they can still be useful today so long as they don't try to fight from the horse. I'd imagine in Indo-China, they didn't fight from the horse.

i always thought the calvery attack aginst the german tanks was real, its even in my book
but i dont think it makes the polish look stupid, i think it makes them look very brave. something to be proud of

i always thought the calvery attack aginst the german tanks was real, its even in my book
but i dont think it makes the polish look stupid, i think it makes them look very brave. something to be proud of
There's a fine line between stupidity and bravery, this IMO is on the stupid side... but it didn't happen.

There's a fine line between stupidity and bravery, this IMO is on the stupid side... but it didn't happen.
What would you call the Banzai Charges in the Pacific? Is that bravery or stupidity?

What would you call the Banzai Charges in the Pacific? Is that bravery or stupidity?
Sorry, I don't know much about the war in the Pacific, except for the basics, but I would say that the difference is that bravery gets you in a better place then where you started, while stupidity does the opposite. Often it's hard to judge...

Sorry, I don't know much about the war in the Pacific, except for the basics, but I would say that the difference is that bravery gets you in a better place then where you started, while stupidity does the opposite. Often it's hard to judge...

So what in essence you are saying is that unless you were a part of something, then all the armchair generals should shut up.

So what in essence you are saying is that unless you were a part of something, then all the armchair generals should shut up.
Ummm, no - I might just be being dense (it is quite late, and alcohol does that to you), but I don't think thats what I meant. In fact I'm not sure I meant anything, I was just expressing my opinion on the difference between bravery and stupidity.

i think a charge aginst a tank and the banzai charges aginst a larger army is the same
both countries rather die then give up to a enemy. a coward would run from the enemy. smart has nothing to do with it, it was bravery and heart. the polish in the charge rather die than retreat not dumb. even though they would never win agianst a tank it was a last stand. more like a protest. and if it happend it is something we remember and admire today. i think you should rethink the meaning of stupid. and if your drunk you shouldnt post because you could offend people

There's a fine line between stupidity and bravery, this IMO is on the stupid side... but it didn't happen.

i think a charge aginst a tank and the banzai charges aginst a larger army is the same
both countries rather die then give up to a enemy. a coward would run from the enemy. smart has nothing to do with it, it was bravery and heart. the polish in the charge rather die than retreat not dumb. even though they would never win agianst a tank it was a last stand. i think you should rethink the meaning of stupid


no.. he doesn't have to rethink the meaning of stupid.

obviously.. atleast seemingly
these OPINONS are effected by ones P.O.V. (ok.. i know... duh) and may be also one's culture and tradition/values ect.

you express yours , he expressed his.. done with it


reminding once again this is a place for discussion on the units created.
...lets drop this specific part of the topic before it gets bouncy.

Hmm.. I forget the exact name, but a company of Japanese-American soldiers saved another company of American soldiers by doing a bonzai attack on the Germans and it turned out very successful. They also went up a steep mountain in bonzai-fashion as well. Very successful against Krauts.

Nisei? (nee si?) (nee sai?)

what's a Bonzai attack- were they laying on the ground, protected by tiny bushes ?? LoL... Bonzai vs Kraut (Coleslaw) ?? Vegetable day?

Hmm.. I forget the exact name, but a company of Japanese-American soldiers saved another company of American soldiers by doing a bonzai attack on the Germans and it turned out very successful. They also went up a steep mountain in bonzai-fashion as well. Very successful against Krauts.
I forget the name of the regiment as well. But the all Nisei and Issei regiment recieved more commendations than any other regiment in the US Army.

But on paper the attack was horrendous. They suffered more wounded and killed than the entire strength of the surving members of the company they were out to save.

Nisei? (nee si?) (nee sai?)
That's the Japanese term for 1st and 2nd generation immigrants.

The 1st generation are Issei and their children would be Nissei. Or it is the other way around??

Cavalry - two of the hardest models to do convinclingly - human and horse.

... I'd never thought of the story of Polish cavalry charging tanks to be a joke on Poland - as I had simply assumed it to be true, not something like a joke on a person, but, more, an example of immense fortitude and bravery deserving of respect - though that needn't be negated, as Wyrmshadow said, "the Poles continued to be an extremely restive population under Nazi rule." :mischief: which I think is something of an understatement.

what's a Bonzai attack- were they laying on the ground, protected by tiny bushes ?? LoL... Bonzai vs Kraut (Coleslaw) ?? Vegetable day?

Bonzai or Banzai? :mischief:

I think it means something along the lines of 'beauty' or 'art' and thus equally applicable to both the plant and the act - in relation to then Japanese social values...

which I think is something of an understatement.

Well I dunno... last time anyone "jumped" me it took 10+ freshman to bring me down. I'm talking about college, not high school.

Well I dunno... last time anyone "jumped" me it took 10+ freshman to bring me down. I'm talking about college, not high school.

:ninja: or :spear: :)

That's the Japanese term for 1st and 2nd generation immigrants.

The 1st generation are Issei and their children would be Nissei. Or it is the other way around??
your right, first is issei, then nisei.

:cry: Militarily, the shortcomings for the entire command system in the allied armies, during the Campaign in France was due to a total communication breakdown. The Germans in their use of the tactics under the premise of the Armored Idea, in German Verniggsgedunke(not Blitzkrieg as everyone thinks) moved so fast the French and the so called B.E.F. were cut off so thoroughly, it did not matter that the German Divisions were not fully mechanized or had to rely on the horse for transporting most of their supplies. They completely outsmarted their foes with ingenuity and modern tactics for the time that the allies failed or had no intention of understanding.
As for the Poles they fought bravely but were overwhelmed. The French Army should have attacked Western Germany on September 1st, 1939. The Germans guarding this sector on the unfinished Siegfried line would not have held for more than two weeks. This was the only thing that may have saved Poland and the millions of Poles and Jews who were summarily slaughtered by the Nazi's. In some ways the French are worse than the Nazi's for allowing this to happen. Never bow to a tyrant and let him get the upper hand.
:cry:

i know i probably dont have much room to talk since i contributed to this as well but still...

i think this has gone [offtopic] enough. again, ...lets drop this specific "part" of the topic in here.

its banzai, long life. it comes from tenno haika banzai, which means may the emporer live 10,000 years. but we just said banzai for short. we used to say it for victories, but while america was pushing japan back , we would yell it to show our loyality to our emperor and would charge to sometimes to the death.

Good job!(Please don't hurt me)

I know this is an ancient thread but I improved the resolution and pallete.
Get it here (http://www.evo-games.net/Home/viewtopic.php?p=13341#13341)

so is he gonna jam his lance into the eye slot of a panzer tank and kill the driver cuseing the hole tank to explod??

Ala Indiana Jones?

Ala Indiana Jones?
That's outa Rambo III :D

@Vietcong

I know you're autistic, but please try to honor Wyrm's request of there not being any jokes about cavalry charges and panzers. Here's the request from first post:
I take this unit VERY personally. Any bad jokes about cavalry charges against panzers and I will not be happy. If that happens I will ask the mods to remove the entire thread. That joke is not funny, nor accurate. And if you believe in that, then you're still the victim of 60 year old Nazi propaganda. Congradulations

As for myself, this unit is interesting, but I have zero interest in it and will never use it.


Sorry wyrm, couldn't help myself. :lol: I like what you've done with it and the quality was increased nicely with the update. I do have some interest in it and if I ever mod something about WW2, I might use it.

I don't let that bother me much anymore. It's much easier to let folks hang themselves with their own words.

Good for you Wyrm. Don't let people on the forums bother you, as long as you know you are right, thats all that matters( ;) not being sarcastic by the way)

Does anyone have any recommended stats for both a standard WW1/WW2 Cavalry unit as well as this Polish Cavalry? Perhaps they would be faster than past cavalry?

... in German Verniggsgedunke(not Blitzkrieg as everyone thinks) ...

Sorry, but this is no German word at all. I doesn't even exist. ;)

Maybe you spelled it wrong? Could you please look it up and post the correct word?

Cavalry vs Tank is a nice image in japanimation though.
Personally i think that tanks must have been very impressive when they first came out, but in our age a tank is just something normal.
In african civil wars i doubt that you see tanks around, if a faction had a tank it would immediately become a regional superpower.

That war has become something unrelated to bravery and individual might was a topic debated already in the ancient times, some greek historians of that era considered those who waged war with bows and arrows to be cowards and undeserving of victory, and the ancient greek armies consisted mostly of bands of hoplites, with the nobles making up the ranks of the cavalry.

When i play RON i always end the game in the enlightment era, i dislike to see the wonderfull cavalry change to tanks :)

Good for you Wyrm. Don't let people on the forums bother you, as long as you know you are right, thats all that matters( ;) not being sarcastic by the way)

Does anyone have any recommended stats for both a standard WW1/WW2 Cavalry unit as well as this Polish Cavalry? Perhaps they would be faster than past cavalry?
I would use them exactly like cavalry (already in the game).
One thing I changed in my game was to reduce the attack strength of the cavalry by 1, since cavalry, even in the Civil War (1860's), was famous for their bravery and horrible casualty rate.
The default CIV3 cavalry unit as an attack/defense of 6/3. I think 5/3 is more realistic. The key to their success is their mobility, not to stand their ground, but to retreat when they need to. Move to the flanks of the enemy and harry them, get behind them and cut them off if possible.
If I want my cavalry to succeed, I have to pound on the enemy with cannon first. I like it like this.

I like that idea alot actually. Thankyou Bjorn...that is a great idea and I intend to use it.

Hmm, I doubt speed or equipment would differ at all between WW I and II- after all the Uhlans were using the same tactics since pre-Napoleonic times. Lance, Saber, Rifle- all there.

Tho, perhaps one could persuade Wyrmshadow to make other European Lancers for WWI & II some day.

Wyrmshadow says he isn't making any more organic units. He only did this one because it was special to him.

Wyrmshadow says he isn't making any more organic units. He only did this one because it was special to him.
If only I could convince him Norwegian mountain troops were also special to him :)
I know it is blashphemy to use polish unit like this for their enemies, but that is what I am doing. I gave it to the germans and the russians. The poles are a great people, with a proud history. But I'm not adding them to my game.

This is just one of those units that you find some way to include.

Actually Poland is a fun civ to have in the game. Piernik did a really great Cashimir the Great leaderhead thats right up there in terms of quality with Firaxis. In one game in my old mod, I conquered Germany using Hussars and Trebechet...(ironic). Plus the fact that I may be descended from a Polish regent(My mother's side of the family is from Lithuania), makes me alittle bias.

LoL- aren't we all decendents of one king or another :D?

If only I could convince him Norwegian mountain troops were also special to him :)
I know it is blashphemy to use polish unit like this for their enemies, but that is what I am doing. I gave it to the germans and the russians. The poles are a great people, with a proud history. But I'm not adding them to my game.

This is just one of those units that you find some way to include.
Norwegian Mountain troops ? Not that I could do them, but out of curiosity- like with skies and stuff... wwii?

LoL- aren't we all decendents of one king or another :D?

I doubt it peasant... :lol:

I doubt it peasant... :lol:
:D seriously- how come noone ever descends of the local trashman- or the royal postman- some carpenter, or something :D In my case I can safely claim being of blue blood (why should I be any different ;))

Norwegian Mountain troops ? Not that I could do them, but out of curiosity- like with skies and stuff... wwii?
They were often on Skis, but they also climbed mountains, etc.
In WW2 is when they saw heavy combat. I was at the site of a famous battle way out on the south west coast (inbetween Stavanger and Kristiansand). There was a plaque on this rock commorating a Norwegian mount unit that learned of a Nazi landing there and went on foot all the way from Oslo (over a 5 hour drive). When they got there there was an entire SS division (with all the fancy toys those boys always got). Out numbered 6 or 7 to 1, they fought the Nazi's to a standstill inflicting very heavy casualties eventually forcing the larger better equipped SS unit to withdraw. And they only 1 Norwegian mount trouper was killed in that fight. Then (still on foot) they returned quickly to Oslo to provide a rear-guard action to allow the King and the government to escape, because Norway had by this time been betrayed by Sweden and a large land invasion by Germans crossing from sweden was taking place. The unit did not survive this second engagement, but the King and the parliment did escape and Norway continued the longest resistance of the war (before Russia).

... and Poland... ;) not to mention Abyssinia and China... :crazyeye:

@Kmirt: Verniggsgedunke-what?

:D seriously- how come noone ever descends of the local trashman- or the royal postman- some carpenter, or something :D In my case I can safely claim being of blue blood (why should I be any different ;))

As can I, not that it matters. Eldest son of the eldest son going back a millenia. But long ago the title ceased to matter. Norway's present King is little or no relation to me.

:D seriously- how come noone ever descends of the local trashman- or the royal postman- some carpenter, or something :D In my case I can safely claim being of blue blood (why should I be any different ;))

On my dad's side I'm descended from an italian painter... :mischief:

On my dad's side I'm descended from an italian painter... :mischief:
Mike di Angelo ;) ???

:lol: From my dad's side I am sliiightly related to Windsor and Liechtenstein (over three corners). The other family side is a bit mirky since most ancestoral documents were destroyed in the war. Had my mom married the other guy I'd be a von Habsburg- but perhaps then I hadn't been born at all or something, or I'd be a girl instead, or not here to hold this conversation... :king:

... and Poland... ;) not to mention Abyssinia and China... :crazyeye:

Well China did not every fully surrender. So I guess the longest resistence goes there, since Norway did fall it just took longer then all of continental europe combined. But Abyssinia... wasn't that one of the places in Africa that got conquered by a whole bunch of different people?

Abyssinia aka Ethiopia

Sweden? ... uhm, seriously? link please ...

Poland: 1939-1944 (July)

China never surrendered, and afaik there hasn't been a formal peace treaty since between Japan and China. The Sino-Japanese war is also reffered to as the "Chinese People's 8 year Anti-Japanese War of Resistance" (1937-1945).

Abyssinia: 1936-1941 invaded by Italy, then Britain -1944
---

While German troops remained in Norway even after WWII had ended in Europe, those troops just remained there until the Allies could transport them away, due to logistical problems merely. One can't really speak of resistance during a period where there is no regime that would need to be resisted against.

seventh son of a seventh son, seventh son of a seventh so-o-on

etc

Sweden? ... uhm, seriously? link please ...

Poland: 1939-1944 (July)

China never surrendered, and afaik there hasn't been a formal peace treaty since between Japan and China. The Sino-Japanese war is also reffered to as the "Chinese People's 8 year Anti-Japanese War of Resistance" (1937-1945).

Abyssinia: 1936-1941 invaded by Italy, then Britain -1944
---

While German troops remained in Norway even after WWII had ended in Europe, those troops just remained there until the Allies could transport them away, due to logistical problems merely. One can't really speak of resistance during a period where there is no regime that would need to be resisted against.

WRT resistence, I was only refering to the amount of days spent fighting before the country was subdued. Obviously partisan resistence would have been longer in nations that were invaded first. I agree that no form of resistence (military or partisan) counts in circumstances such as the Germans waiting for a ride home.
Sweden was never invaded. They were semi-neutral (axis friendly) during the war. Experts say that sweden suppling germany with their superior ballbearings extended the war by 6 months by itself.

With the idea of being descended from blue blood.... what about Prima Nocta????

seventh son of a seventh son, seventh son of a seventh so-o-on

etc
Didn't someone write a song about you then?

With the idea of being descended from blue blood.... what about Prima Nocta????
:D hehehehe

If I remember it correctly, there was one incident of polnish cavalry doing a frontal attack against german tanks, because they thought the tanks were dummies.
Nonetheless, you must say that during Fall Weiss, many Poles faught brave, though hopelessly (waiting for allied help..), especially on the Westernplatte i think.

I believe it was called the "balkankruese" you germans please correct my spelling.

Balkenkreuze.

I am part Polish, and we know someone who I think is the daughter of the last Polish King. She just got married to a friend of ours. Does anone know the name of the last king?

Stanislaw August Poniatowski was the last Polish king. The system of government enjoyed by poland was that of a weak central monarchy with an elected king, and a strong nobility, so it was something different from other European states.

As a side note, I grew up in a town called Poniatowa until I moved to the states in 1984.

With the idea of being descended from blue blood.... what about Prima Nocta????

Ius primae noctis is pretty much a post-medieval myth. After the age of enlightning, it was used to show how barbaric the Middle Ages had been in the eyes of the "modern" man. It's the same with the fullers of swords who were said to be "blood grooves" to let the blood flow out easily when stabbing someone. Actually, they just lighten the sword.

Actually it is a great a few times daughter.

Thanks for the name.

Hi Wyrmshadow,

Shouldn't these cavalry dismount on the attack? They had lances with their horses, but they were sort of a sidearm that didn't really get used from what I've read. As I understand it, the cavalry in '39 were more like heavy infantry (equipped with mortars, recoilless rifles and all the rest) on horseback, who rode to the battle and then fought on foot as standard heavy infantry.

Good to see someone dispelling the myths about the charges, though. Although they were more often defeated, few people are aware that Polish cavalry did win a small number of battles against the Germans (even with cavalry vs tanks).

Ius primae noctis is pretty much a post-medieval myth. After the age of enlightning, it was used to show how barbaric the Middle Ages had been in the eyes of the "modern" man. It's the same with the fullers of swords who were said to be "blood grooves" to let the blood flow out easily when stabbing someone. Actually, they just lighten the sword.


I don't think prima noctis was made up. It probably did exist ... but I imagine it was long gone by the Middle Ages, more a thing of the Dark Ages and the initial culture of the earliest Germanic invaders.

good Job on your Polish Cavalry 1939.

I agree, a very nice unit! Too bad I didn't put it in my new 1500 AD scenario for the Rising Sun mod. :D Maybe I'll do it later.

Anyway, I saw a lot of discussions if the Polish cavalry fought tanks, how successful they were, how they were equipped, and so on. More importantly, however, perhaps one should ask what their intended role was?

At the beginning of the war, Poland had about 10 cavalry brigades, which were in the process of being re-equipped with (light) tanks. One already was (it fought its way back to Romania, and its commander, gen. Maczek, later led the 1st Polish armoured division at Falaise). Why were not all re-equipped? Mainly for financial reasons. Is it rare for a unit to keep its designation? Not really. Just look at the US Army.

Was there any use for 'classic' cavalry? Yes. In the East, the Polesie (Pripiet) region was not suited for mechanized units. Cavalry could be used for greater mobility. Both the Russian and the Germans later used cavalry in similar areas.

Was it possible to launch a successful charge against German Panzers in 1939? Most certainly. The vast majority of the tanks deployed in Poland were Panzer II:s. They were cramped, slow, poorly armored, had only one coaxial machine gun and a 20 mm cannon in the turret, which traversed slowly, and could only fire accurately when the tank was standing still. At short distance, or in forested/hilly terrain, they were easy prey for cavalry armed with handguns and hand grenades. The problem was to eliminate the machine guns of the supporting infantry. Charging tanks was thus very dangerous, but no more so than any infantry unit.

Why did the cavalry units in the West not abandon their horses and fight only on foot? Would you in their place give up their only advantage, which was the ability to re-deploy quickly?

While it is true that the German army was better equipped and had a numerical advantage, these were not the most important factors in their success. For instance, due French fears of provoking Hitler, Polish general mobilization didn't start until the day before the attack. Most of the units were thus not combat ready and poorly deployed. Those that were in place were in the north, close to the disputed 'corridor', which had no strategic significance in an all-out war. Partly due to the reliance on their French allies, the Poles also failed to adopt a strategy of defense in depth. When the invasion was launched, front units were thus retreating to avoid encirclement, while rear units tried to move to the front. The result was chaos, giving the Stukas perfect targets lined up along the roads, which were clogged by civilian refugees to begin with. The fighting was actually rather limited. Most of the actions fought before reaching Warsaw were aimed at avoiding pincer movements or break out from pockets. In this context the mobility of the cavalry was actually useful (Battle of Bzura), but the problem was that, especially after Stalin invaded on th 17th, there was no place to go.

As a footnote, the most devastating army weapon of the engagement was not the tank. It was the German artillery. After the fall of Warsaw, the government moved to London, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers fledthe country (mainly though Romania) to join up with the Western allies. But that was a different story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_cavalry#Cavalry_charges_and_Nazi_propaganda

Old unit but I uploaded the newer version with better pallete and resolution. Check the 1st post.

nice! :goodjob::thumbsup:

Too bad cavalry was allready obsolete long before this unit saw battle, such a fine unit should have a longer lifespan.

Too bad cavalry was allready obsolete long before this unit saw battle, such a fine unit should have a longer lifespan.

Thanks for the update, Wyrmshadow! I really appreciate your perfectionism, improving the already very, very good :thumbsup:

Also, AFAIK the PRC still employs cavalry (well, mounted infantry of course) in remote & mountainous terrain.

Best,

Oz

Delicate!:thumbsup:

I hope Wy can make cavalries of various nations in WWI or WWII. It must be wonderful very much.:drool: :goodjob:

I agree with @96nn :D
As for infantry too!

Although Poland had 11 Cavalry Brigades, the Polish cavalry never charged on German tanks.

I just lost a lot of respect for the Polish military.

me 2 :( (but why?)

Reputedly they Were attacking a part of enemie's infantry, then encountered tanks of another German troop...

But for my individual opinion... However this, they were even very brave.

What purports to be a list of 16 documented Polish cavalry charges in 1939 can be found here (http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Polish_cavalry). (Scroll past "20th century: After World War II" to the "Cavalry Charges and Propaganda" section.

Best,

Oz

Nice, downloaded it right away.

Welcome, Aquatarkus :)

FYI we frown on reviving dead threads unless there's a timely reason - broken d/l link, etc. Also, if you made appreciative comments for every sterling unit here, you'd be busy for a very long time.

Best,

Oz

And so he picked my thread to post his first statement? Me? The guy that thinks thread necromacy should be a punishable offence?

WHY???

Well, I think it's cause he likes your work.
Thats irony...

Enough.

Wyrm - Take it for what it is, a compliment.

A thread from 2004 bumped ?:cry: OK... :D

I`m using this chance to ask for a "Unit_32.pcx" of the unit. The DL include none. My own pic has become only a mess... (Cavalry and Helicopters are far too hard to make - for me):)

... so IF anybody have made one please post it here ...
Thanks in advance !

Bye
General 666

I have made one a few weeks back, here you go...
The easiest way I have found to make one, is to bring up the default animation in Flicster (so it's not moving, and usually aim the animation to the SE for consistency), hit Print Screen and then paste into Photoshop (or w/e you use), then resize down to 32x32. This looks well in game, hope it helps!

208971

Tom2050

Generally we use the same procedere to make one. But every time I copy my pic into my Mod-Unit_32.pcx ,the legs of the horse disappears. The same for the rotors of Helis. The pic that Zulu has included in his sheet has no legs too. So a big Thanks to you ,for rescueing my nerves...

I have made one a few weeks back, here you go...
The easiest way I have found to make one, is to bring up the default animation in Flicster (so it's not moving, and usually aim the animation to the SE for consistency), hit Print Screen and then paste into Photoshop (or w/e you use), then resize down to 32x32. This looks well in game, hope it helps!

208971

Tom2050

The problem with this is that the palette is going to be all wrong. For a tutorial on how to make a unit_32 see this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1840681&postcount=20) post.

The problem with this is that the palette is going to be all wrong. For a tutorial on how to make a unit_32 see this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1840681&postcount=20) post.

I have allready c&p his pic into my Mod-Sheet and have recieved no problems doing so. (Additionally I have enlarged the pic by two pixels ,resulting in a even better visible unit-image.)

You haven't read the tutorial yet have you? ;) :)

Vuldacon has sent me once a even more detailed version (including different .pal and Unit_32.pcx`s files) which I follow...
So I have no problems anymore to handle things like the Civ-specific color.

Vuldacon has sent me once a even more detailed version (including different .pal and Unit_32.pcx`s files) which I follow...
So I have no problems anymore to handle things like the Civ-specific color.

But you didn't change the BLUE civ color of my original unit to the RED color of the new pallete.

Thanks for playing. Try paying attention to the rules next time.

Vuldacon has sent me once a even more detailed version (including different .pal and Unit_32.pcx`s files) which I follow...


Yup yup. That's what I linked to...

The problem with this is that the palette is going to be all wrong. For a tutorial on how to make a unit_32 see this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1840681&postcount=20) post.

True, I made this one incorrectly so it shows blue color in the game. But I didn't have much time when I made it, so just resorted to the quick route. Forgot to mention that in my post. I haven't messed around with palettes in a while, although I still remember them somewhat well from last year. Thanks for the link, it will help refresh my memory.

I'll redo the 32 pcx for calvary, it will be good refresher practice.

Tom