View Full Version : Term 1 - Ministry of Trade


Donovan Zoi
Jul 31, 2004, 10:10 AM
Welcome to the Ministry of Trade!

Trade Minister: Donovan Zoi
Trade Deputy: CivGeneral

Donovan Zoi
Jul 31, 2004, 10:11 AM
*reserved*

CivGeneral
Jul 31, 2004, 01:36 PM
Well, its good to see the office is up and running ;).

Comnenus
Jul 31, 2004, 02:16 PM
Glad to see you have set up your offices. Now, as an isolationist, I must advise against actually trading with anyone. ;)

CivGeneral
Aug 05, 2004, 07:29 PM
I wish for the Ministry of Trade to partisipate and cast there vote in the Dealing with Demands from other nations - Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96098) thread :). As Deputy of this department, once the polls close in 4 days, Ill post the results here for the Leader so that he can best decide on what to do if a demand does come up :).

Thanks,
CivGeneral

Provolution
Aug 06, 2004, 06:08 AM
Honorable Trade Minister Donovan zoi and Deputy Civgeneral

I am about to lauch the Ringi Reform of Japanatica, and the first target is the city localization and development. As Trade Ministry, you are interested in building trade facilities such as harbor and airport, and in perspective wonders that promote trade.

Please investigate the City Proposal Thread and assess the printed map, marcation of future city borders, the tile production by shield, gold food and gold. Shield is the most critical aspect for your Departments needs, and food in perspective, as you would need to draft conscripts one day.

So whenever a proposed city comes into the view on that thread, grade it from 0-5 based on how good the city location is. Also grade the city for its future strategic resource and luxury resources, as well as trade roads to other Civs and so on.
When complete, write 4-6 lines on the point selection, and submit it with the Domestic Affairs Ministry. If the City alternative is approved and selected for polling, you are free to, but not obliged, to write in the city proposal thread in order to influence the outcome. I have posted similar posts in the other Departments.

CivGeneral
Aug 06, 2004, 03:22 PM
There is a Poll regarding the placement of our second city. I would like for the Trade Department staff to check it out and advocate that we should settle by the diamonds :).

Donovan Zoi
Aug 07, 2004, 12:17 AM
My apologies for just catching this, gentlemen. I have been spending far too much time at our legislative hall. :crazyeye:

I will head for the City Placement thread now and see if Gems are in our near future. At this time I would likely propose not, but let me check it out.

RoboPig
Aug 10, 2004, 06:37 AM
Honorable Trade Minister, I ask you that in case ,over the next few turns, we stumble upon Ivory ,you will not connect Japanatica's roads to this resource.Simply by looking at my signature you will see how oppossed I am to this inhumane practice.Thank You

Provolution
Aug 10, 2004, 06:45 AM
I consider the elephant as a beast of burden. We do not kill elephants in Japanatica, we give them a reliable job with fodder in public transportation.

CivGeneral
Aug 10, 2004, 08:45 AM
I wish for the Ministry of Trade to partisipate in the trade discussion Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96505) :D.

blackheart
Aug 10, 2004, 10:41 AM
Honorable Trade Minister, I ask you that in case ,over the next few turns, we stumble upon Ivory ,you will not connect Japanatica's roads to this resource.Simply by looking at my signature you will see how oppossed I am to this inhumane practice.Thank You

Let's not connect our roads to wheat or cattle either. We can't eat them, it's inhumane.

Cyc
Aug 10, 2004, 12:04 PM
Dear Minister, please read this post in the Babylon Trade Discussion thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2082779&postcount=33)

Rik Meleet
Aug 10, 2004, 03:59 PM
The Science department backs the plan proposed by Cyc "1 gpt for bronze".

CivGeneral
Aug 11, 2004, 01:39 PM
I wish for the Ministry of Trade to cast there votes and partisipate in the Babylon Trade (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96642) thread :).

Thanks,
CivGeneral

DaveShack
Aug 15, 2004, 10:07 AM
Honorable Trade Minister,

Your objection to having the DP decide on trades in the absense of instructions is noted. Although it is a tradition that if orders are not posted the DP decides, there is a matter of honor at stake as well. Accordingly I have posted Presidential instructions to other DP's to stop if a potential trade becomes available and there are no instructions.

It would be better for the flow of the game if your office could predict some trade conditions under which it is acceptable to conduct the trade and continue, and post those instructions. We have an ongoing balancing act between ensuring all officials have the capability to perform their duties, and proceeding at a fast enough pace to keep the populace involved in the game.

Thank you,
DaveShack
President of Japanatica

Provolution
Aug 15, 2004, 10:22 AM
Honorable Trade Minister donovan zoi :)

I really cherish your good input on many issues, but I really do hope you can participate to the flow of the game by agreeing to the following :)

You support continuing the turnchat till Iron working
Agree on trading away the Wheel until we cannot trade it anymore for most scenarios
of trade options (You set a lower limit, now that you know the Wheel is Out)
We have no luxuries yet.
Agreee on buing certain techs we can afford with that gold from the Romans
Do not stop the game if we meet the Romans (2-3 turns away)

I really hope you will promote a turnchat that lasts till iron working is complete.

Provolution
Aug 15, 2004, 12:18 PM
Honorable Trade Minister Donovan Zai

As a minister of the humble Foreign Affairs Ministry to a colleague of the esteemed Trade Ministry, I suggest that we develop a joint FA/TA procedure involving both parties on an equal footing with an equal say in both areas. This also implies that we actually settle areas we can trade in, and develop joint procedures with the SA in order to integrate our Foreign Relations. The problem with the Japanatican Department
structure is that the Domestic and War Ministries have clear cut roles, where our roles
are tightly integrated into the same foreign affairs screen. From the real world, The Japanese Ministries of MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry), MOF (Ministry of Finance) and Miniastry of Foreign Affairs are jointly running Foreign Diplomacy. Ideally, we should have empowered the Trade Ministry with the Science/Luxury/Finance Slider, as well as the control over the gold reserve.
With the present consitution, the best thing to do would be to integrate FA and TA in a close coordination, as natural as the one we see with science and culture.

In more efficient model, I may visualize the government like this:

President
Vice President
Domestic Minister (Settlers, Workers, Builds, Province coordination)
Defense Minister
Foreign Affairs Minister
Trade/Finance Minister (Commerce Slider, Approve trades of pool, Budget control)
Science Minister
Culture Minister

CivGeneral
Aug 15, 2004, 02:47 PM
I wish for the Trade department to approve of this.


We Give They Give
The Wheel Alphabet
Whatever Gold they can part with


The reason for this is we are about to contact another civ posibly within 2-3 turns. As Provo told me in the chat, "The Chats would have to stop because of lack of instructions".

Rik Meleet
Aug 15, 2004, 02:58 PM
CG: What civ are we trading with ?

Black_Hole
Aug 15, 2004, 03:01 PM
CG: What civ are we trading with ?
i believe the red civ/rome

CivGeneral
Aug 15, 2004, 03:03 PM
i believe the red civ/rome
Yeah, its the roman civ (Red Civ).

There was a discussion in #civfanatics about it and we all predicted that it would be the Romans.

Sir Donald III
Aug 15, 2004, 04:01 PM
Well, while it works on Paper, the fact that Zulu have Alphabet probably means that they likely had previous contact with Rome.

However, it may be likely that Rome does not have Wheel since Zulu hold a 2 Tech lead and one of those techs is Mysticism. While they would've gotten CB that from the Babs, I don't see how the Romans would've been able to get their hands on it.

Again, it works on paper, but be prepared to A: have to shell out Gold (we're dealing a 4th, they've got a 3rd) or B: to be disapointed.

We shouldn't have to shell out a GPT like we did for the Babs, however. 63 gold = 3 GPT, so if we need more than that and Wheel for Alphabet, then...

CivGeneral
Aug 15, 2004, 04:05 PM
Well, while it works on Paper, the fact that Zulu have Alphabet probably means that they likely had previous contact with Rome.

However, it may be likely that Rome does not have Wheel since Zulu hold a 2 Tech lead and one of those techs is Mysticism. While they would've gotten CB that from the Babs, I don't see how the Romans would've been able to get their hands on it.

Again, it works on paper, but be prepared to A: have to shell out Gold (we're dealing a 4th, they've got a 3rd) or B: to be disapointed.

We shouldn't have to shell out a GPT like we did for the Babs, however. 63 gold = 3 GPT, so if we need more than that and Wheel for Alphabet, then...
I have looked up the Romans in the Civilopedia and it says that the Romans start out with the Warrior Code and the Alphabet. Personaly I beleve we should not have to dish out any gold to them.

blackheart
Aug 15, 2004, 07:00 PM
I have looked up the Romans in the Civilopedia and it says that the Romans start out with the Warrior Code and the Alphabet. Personaly I beleve we should not have to dish out any gold to them.

We haven't even officially met the Romans yet. That was the Babylonians.

Provolution
Aug 15, 2004, 07:07 PM
Well Blackheart, we are to.

Donovan Zoi
Aug 15, 2004, 11:02 PM
Mr. President, Provolution, CivGeneral:

I have opened the following thread to discuss our options once we meet Rome. Thank you for your patience.

Ministry of Trade: Meeting Rome (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97118)

Cyc
Aug 16, 2004, 11:19 AM
Trade Minister Donovan Zoi, I read in these forums how you advocate stopping the Turn Chat when Iron is discovered. Have you changed your mind on this?

Are you going to make this chat another one in which you have not posted Instructions?

Donovan Zoi
Aug 16, 2004, 03:34 PM
Trade Minister Donovan Zoi, I read in these forums how you advocate stopping the Turn Chat when Iron is discovered. Have you changed your mind on this?

No, I have not changed my mind on this. My instructions will make this quite clear, and my Gems plan was forwarded in part to ensure we stay closer to the 10-turn mark.


Are you going to make this chat another one in which you have not posted Instructions?

No, I do not plan to let that happen. I learned my lesson from the last chat. ;)

Actually, I am waiting for discussion to die down on my 11th hour town hall meetings before posting.

Provolution
Aug 17, 2004, 04:38 AM
Honorable Donovan Zoi

I honestly hope you are willing to help the pace of the game progress yet again. In light of the recent abruptly shortened chat, in part understandable, as there is choice to be done between a worker and mysticism. However, Donovan, you do not need to poll every single little situation, we are 12 civilizations on this planet. You know there is a strong support for mysticism from the poll ion wichich route to take (Monarchy).
In order to remedy that we we came 5 turns short last time, I certainly expect to go past the symbolic 10 line, which is a comfortable number indeed, but not as good when we see 0 turn, 1 turn, 4 turn and 5 turn chats over and over again. I suggest you develop a fully fledged trade policy, with contigencies, so you cover most eventualities, and simply fast track authorize your trade negotiation system. Fast track is by no means undemocratic and dictatorial power, but a way to get ahead.
There is no question we need not only iron working next time, but the next technology as well, as the technology spans are getting shorter and shorter.

Since we can only trade in technologies so far, please let us build that City G, get ahead with the game, and repeat the iron decision process as the second settler is complete, also factoring in a dual city poll. Please get that poll up as well, and not last minute moves where we must look for CG to post safeguard instructions.

Except for these inputs, I am more than satifisfied with the smart Furuyama move :)

Donovan Zoi
Aug 17, 2004, 05:58 AM
Provolution,

With all due respect, there is no -9 deficit. No term has ever gone to 100 turns and I don't feel we should start that practice now.

This game is about decisions made along the way, and don't feel we should bypass key discussion points. That said, we may still need to stop at Iron Working.

Lastly, I don't know why the chat was stopped at 5 turns for a cash trade. It's not like both would have not still been there in 5 more turns. The Trade Ministry will not take the blame for this slight delay of the game.

Sit back and enjoy, Provolution. These games take about 5-6 months to complete. You are trying to push us forward to a game that would end in 3.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
Trade Minister

Cyc
Aug 17, 2004, 08:24 AM
I agree with Minister Donovan Zoi about the 100 turn schedule. In one of my posts I used that figure to show the relativity of our present situation. There is no need to rush.

During last night's T/C, I was one of the proponents for the purchase of Mysticism over that of the half-worker slave. But now that I look at the save, I wouldn't purchase either. Mysticism is only 8 turns of research, Alphabet is only 10. Both of those figures will drop. So let's wait or not buy them at all (no sense spending all the gold available).

At this point, I would raise the Science slider to 100% (zero gpt) and discover Iron Working in 3 turns instead of 4. Then head to Mysticism. We have plenty of gold, so the reduction of 1 gpt for 3 turns will not hurt us.

So I wouldn't purchase either, I would increase Science.

DaveShack
Aug 17, 2004, 08:42 AM
The reason we stopped was that the standalone trades and the double trade both had mixed responses, indicating there was no concensus among even the subset of the populace which attends the chat. This time it isn't so much a question of which deal(s) to do, but are they worth doing at all. I felt it was important to let the people decide if we want to use our gold this way or if it needs to be reserved for some other purpose, such as upgrades.

Epimethius
Aug 17, 2004, 10:50 AM
Domestic wanted to trade for a worker, Science wanted to trade for Mysticism. Donovon was not there. So it was really the best thing to do.

And I maintained the slider setting at 90% because the only difference between that and 100% was that we made more money.