I have noticed that there is noting in the consitution regarding the setup of the Chain of Command. Here is the CoC that I would like to propose. It is a more traditional CoC from DG1 and DG2. I am not good at writing up a article from scratch so bear with me on this one.


Chain of Command

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Domestic Deputy
Foreign Affairs Deputy
Military Deputy
Trade Deputy
Culture Deputy
Govenors
Lt. Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender
Department Chat Representitives


Please feel free to discuss this proposal, and do feel free to add a discription for this article :).

this appears to be a very useful piece of legislation/amendment/whatever it is....

i might say it need something to introduce and define it... perhaps sumthing like...

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct business as defined by his or her office the following chain of command shall be envoked in the following order: <insert your chain of command here>

just thought id try my hand at it...

also some sort of piece defining that the office shall be passed in some sort of order of seniority in those offices that have multiples (like governor)...ill try my hand at that too...

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control by those offices that hold multiple members of the same title an order of seniority should be followed. Seniority shall be defined according to the order in which that seat of office was created.

that one was harder...

Ill vote against any CoC proposal outright. Especially one that defines chat representatives as anything other than volunteer citizens.

I agree that, On the topic on Govenors, Lt. Govenors, and Chat Reps, the user who have posted earlyer should have seniority than the persion who just joined today. Anyway, here is the updated proposal with Bobby Lee's intro.


Chain of Command

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct business as
defined by his or her office the following chain of command shall be envoked in the
following order:

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Domestic Deputy
Foreign Affairs Deputy
Military Deputy
Trade Deputy
Culture Deputy
Govenors
Lt. Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control by those offices that hold
multiple members of the same title an order of seniority should be followed.

Looks good so far, but we need to word the "Seniority is defined by who signed up in the citizens registery" properly.

Ill vote against any CoC proposal outright. Especially one that defines chat representatives as anything other than volunteer citizens.

Can you elaborate your reasons, for those of us who don't have the experience of previous DG's? It would be helpful to making an informed decision.

IMO, I beleve that a defined CoC would make things in the turnchat flow more easely if eather the President and the Vice President are not present and dont show up after the traditional 15 minutes deadline. If we dont have a defined CoC, then there would be chaos in the TC on defining who is next in line (Though some of the vets would know what to do if they were around since DG1)

CivGeneral, before Cyc says anything (as he did to me) when you are putting in your code boxes, edit them so that it isn't necessary to use the sliders at the bottom to read them. Also, makes for easier printing.

A few reasons:

A) I dont believe that deputies should have any authority above any elected individual
B) The president sets his/her own chattimes, so missing DP should be kept to a minimum
C) In the event of a crisis where the DP must leave, I think the Pres should be able to decide who he believes is best suited to continue the game in his absence.
D) I dont like the turnchat, the idea that we would have to have a "turn chat representative" running our game sends shivers down my spine.
E) If a president cant make it to his own turnchat he should define in the forum who will play it in his absence.

ok here goes a try at defining seniority properly...

Seniority shall be defined according to the order in which members were listed in the citizen registry. The first to be listed in the citizens registry shall have the highest seniority, the second listed shall hold second highest, etc. until such time as there is no longer anyone left in that office.

A few reasons:

A) I dont believe that deputies should have any authority above any elected individual
B) The president sets his/her own chattimes, so missing DP should be kept to a minimum
C) In the event of a crisis where the DP must leave, I think the Pres should be able to decide who he believes is best suited to continue the game in his absence.
D) I dont like the turnchat, the idea that we would have to have a "turn chat representative" running our game sends shivers down my spine.

A. I agree with you.
B. Very good point.
C. I believe this was settled by the Judiciary in favor of the President.
D. It was certainly chaotic, and there were so many people talking at once, it was hard to tell if any good ideas were brought forward. In the end, it accomplished almost nothing. And I agree, tc reps would be a waste. If we had to go that far down any CoC, we might as well pack up and go home.

That last turnchat was a cluster---- if you get my drift. Everything was running smoothly until we ran into a problem and everything exploded.

:)

That last turnchat was a cluster---- if you get my drift. Everything was running smoothly until we ran into a problem and everything exploded.

:)

In the army we called them Charlie Foxtrots. Have to be nice on the radio, you know? :D

I love Turn Chats. But I would mostly have to agree with Immortal here. The President should be able to schedule them around his/her own personal schedule (and, no. DaveShack is not a he/she, I just use that to be PC) ;)

If the President leaves the game early, he can just call end of chat, or he can pass it on to a trusted citizen at the chat. The chat does not HAVE to go on.

If we had to go down a list of 8 elected Officials to find someone to run the chat, we definitely have bigger problems than putting together a COC.

You missed the Minister of Science, CG.

Bobby Lee, your'e an excellent writer. Maybe you should apply for the President's speech writer. You can speel better than I can too. ;)

i still am in favor of a chain of command...though i must say i agree that after a certain point we should all just pack up and go home

If we do formalize a CoC please do not make it a constitutional amendment. This is something that should be in one of the lower books.

I already made a post on this elsewhere...

Anyway, it should be:

President
VP
Domestic
Military
Foriegn
Trade
Culture
Science

(bottom 3 can be debatable)

Chief Justice
Judge Advocate
Public Defender

{ The deputies of the respected advisors, in the same order }

Governors, starting with the oldest province first.

On the whole, I agree with all the points that Immortal raised, and I just wanted to clarify a few things.

I do not understand why the Vice-President should be ranked so high in the CoC. Should an official who lost an election be ranked higher than those ministers who won their respective elections? Even if the VP is appointed, then this should at least be an election issue, so at the time of the vote, citizens are aware of who will be in charge should the president go AWOL.

This is also why I am opposed to having deputies in the CoC. In my estimation, if the DP and all the ministers and justices are all missing, we should just consider the chat cancelled.

As I see it, the CoC should only be for the rare occasion where the DP disappears without any word. Generally, if the DP cannot make it to a chat or has to leave, he should be able to make a decision on who will play. In the even that the DP does go missing, I think any CoC going beyond the top elected officials is unnecessary.

I do not favor a chain of command. While I have not seen any past demogames, It would seem to me that having some form of "Official" line of succession would be a hassle! For one a Chain of Command does not guarantee an experienced player is making the moves. I am currently on both of these CoC's and I do not feel personally qualified to run a turn chat (yet). I think the best way to proceed is for the President to appoint a player to play the turn in his absence. While some people do not agree with an unelected official running the game, I remind you that it is still the President's responsibility to ensure that the game is run smoothly and correctly. It is still on his shoulders to pick the correct person. If someone messes up, it could mean his job.

I will vote down any CoC and perhaps even campaign against it if it ever makes it past discussion.

After reading the whole thread, i think a CoC is not a very good idea. It places non-elected officials above elected officials, and the whole "VicePres" issue is pretty rocky right now (no offense Chieftess). Add to that the whole turnchat issue...

Immortal and KCCrusader made some very important points here... read the posts and i think you will agree that a CoC will only complicate things.

I do not understand why the Vice-President should be ranked so high in the CoC. Should an official who lost an election be ranked higher than those ministers who won their respective elections? Even if the VP is appointed, then this should at least be an election issue, so at the time of the vote, citizens are aware of who will be in charge should the president go AWOL.

This is also why I am opposed to having deputies in the CoC. In my estimation, if the DP and all the ministers and justices are all missing, we should just consider the chat cancelled.

First of all, I would like to say I agree that the VP should be either elected separately (which would work nicely for an idea i have in mind for my idea about a Senate). In the event that how the VP is not changed I would have to say he should prolly not be in the chain of command. In the event it is changed to a decent method I see the Chain of Command always defaulting through him because that was why he was elected, to take the responsibilities of the President in the event the President himself cannot perform them.

Next, Deputies are needed because people have lives, the ministers cannot always be there so they need someone to take thier place while they go on with the real world. Deputies should also be elected though I think despite current precedents.

Finally, Cancelling a chat in the event the right people are not present is not a good idea. It leaves the doors open to violate the spirit of this Demogame without violation of any law, ammendment, or even really a precedent. A Chain of Command is needed so that the ministers under no circumstances may defy the people. (Yes, it would be petty of them and I am not speaking badly of our current ministers but precautions should always be taken.) Besides this would waste peoples time who may have had other things to do besides wait around for a turnchat that was not gonna happen.

I agree with Immortal that we should not have a CoC. The DP is the one that schedules turnchats and they're is the one that plays them. If they can't make it to their own scheduled turnchat, maybe a new pres should be elected. In cases of emergencies where the DP has to leave he/she should be able to appoint whoever they want as a temp DP.

Even if a CoC was to be made, why would the VP rank so high? The VP position isn't an elected position. The ministers should come first, then governors, and then judges because the judges shouldn't be forced to split their thoughts on the legality of acts when they're the ones doing the acts.

Chain of Command

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct
business as defined by his or her office the following chain of command
shall be envoked in the following order:

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Science Advisor
Govenors
Lt. Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender
Domestic Deputy
Foreign Affairs Deputy
Military Deputy
Trade Deputy
Culture Deputy
Science Deputy

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control of the govenors
and Lt. Govenors should go by order of seniority by the oldest province.

Changed a few things around, Thanks to Cyc to remind me to add the Science leader

I agree with Immortal that we should not have a CoC. The DP is the one that schedules turnchats and they're is the one that plays them. If they can't make it to their own scheduled turnchat, maybe a new pres should be elected. In cases of emergencies where the DP has to leave he/she should be able to appoint whoever they want as a temp DP.

Even if a CoC was to be made, why would the VP rank so high? The VP position isn't an elected position. The ministers should come first, then governors, and then judges because the judges shouldn't be forced to split their thoughts on the legality of acts when they're the ones doing the acts.
Personaly, I disagree with Immortal. The CoC is a system to determane who should be the DP in the event the President fails to show up in his/her own turnchat due to various reasons ranging from medical to family reasons that often pops up in everyone's RL situations.

Also, the reason the VP is the second in-line in the CoC is due to traditions. In the past demogames, the VP has always held a spot as the 2nd in command in the CoC much like the RL presidents and vice-presidents in the US government.

the VP is chosen by the candidate too IRL.

Are you saying this is preferable?

Wow, we have two members of the Judiciary that are already against the CoC from the git go. Better dot your i's and cross your t's when writing this one up. :D

I agree with donsig that if we are to consider this proposal, it should wind up in a lower book. Although I must admit that I am shocked to hear the words "lower book" coming out of our honorable journalist's mouth. ;)

Chain of Command

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct
business as defined by his or her office the following chain of command
shall be envoked in the following order:

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Science Advisor
Govenors
Lt. Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender
Domestic Deputy
Foreign Affairs Deputy
Military Deputy
Trade Deputy
Culture Deputy
Science Deputy

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control of the govenors
and Lt. Govenors should go by order of seniority by the oldest province.

Changed a few things around, Thanks to Cyc to remind me to add the Science leader

Get the deputies out of there, CG. :nono: The measure will never pass.

yea, any non elected peoples should not be in there... at least not until they are better defined positions anyway

Personaly, I disagree with Immortal. The CoC is a system to determane who should be the DP in the event the President fails to show up in his/her own turnchat due to various reasons ranging from medical to family reasons that often pops up in everyone's RL situations.

Also, the reason the VP is the second in-line in the CoC is due to traditions. In the past demogames, the VP has always held a spot as the 2nd in command in the CoC much like the RL presidents and vice-presidents in the US government.

Except that in modern government the VP now does more than just wait for the president to croak. Maybe we should assign the VP some duties to do?

The VP would have had duties if we had a Senate...

Any CoC should only list the Executive Branch Leaders, no VP, no deputies, etc. If we don't have 1 of the 7 executives at the chat, we should just pospone the chat.

The VP must be second, it is, by definition his job. The VP does need a new way of being determined/elected though.

The VP must be second, it is, by definition his job. The VP does need a new way of being determined/elected though.

In essence, the VP and Deputies are elected if they are the runners-up in elections.

Yes, but i dont think that it is actually spelled out at the moment, they are also subject to appointment I think by precedent.

the vp shouldnt be in the coc as long as deputies are runner ups in election, otherwise that may change... but why give someone(vp) who lost in an election over someone who won(domestic advisor)

Traditionally, you had to have been an advisor first before you could run for president. Thus, you were already in a higher position.

actually runner ups for VP isnt a bad idea, it just needs to be put down as the rule in writing...it ensures that no (extreme) hard feelings are felt...there are other ways though, makeing a president appoint his VP before the election or haveing a separate election...perhaps that point should be settle first...

I wish to say again though that BY DEFINITION of the position, the VP must be second in line...

Since we are on the subject of VP, I would recommend a Combined Ticket of President and VP. To me this is the only way that the VP should be allowed retain second-in-command.

This could also add an interesting aspect of the game, as for the first time(to my knowledge), voters would be able to essentially vote for a leadership team. A newer presidential hopeful could get a bump in the polls based on his choice of a veteran running mate. Or conversely, a veteran DGer could bring youth to the ticket and in turn provide the best internship ever. :D

If we do it, I think we should allow it for the Pres/VP only. My guess is that you won't get many people who are willing to accept second banana for a minister or governor position going into the election.

Something should be written up by somebody on that subject...

*Sigh* some people dont think Deputies should have authority :rolleyes:


Chain of Command

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct
business as defined by his or her office the following chain of command
shall be envoked in the following order:

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Science Advisor
Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control of the govenors
and Lt. Govenors should go by order of seniority by the oldest province.


Here is the new version without the deputies. I still personaly think the Deputies should have a place in the CoC.

Since we are on the subject of VP, I would recommend a Combined Ticket of President and VP. To me this is the only way that the VP should be allowed retain second-in-command.

This could also add an interesting aspect of the game, as for the first time(to my knowledge), voters would be able to essentially vote for a leadership team. A newer presidential hopeful could get a bump in the polls based on his choice of a veteran running mate. Or conversely, a veteran DGer could bring youth to the ticket and in turn provide the best internship ever. :D

If we do it, I think we should allow it for the Pres/VP only. My guess is that you won't get many people who are willing to accept second banana for a minister or governor position going into the election.

I am against on doing this. I perfer that all deputies including the VP should be the runner-up slots in elections.

Sigh all you want CG.

A) YOU are a deputy, therefore your aims in this CoC are suspect to me.
B) I will never allow a deputy to come before an executive or legislative member in anything I vote on as a voting citizen.
C) Once again your queue puts this unelected suspect position of Lt.Governors as a position of running the turnchat. If a member of the executive is not present at the turnchat, it should NOT be conducted.

Immortal - No need to get hostile to me, this proposal is not baised on a biasis on my views :(.

Its deflected anger on that fact I reeeeeeally dont like the turnchat being done by anyone other than the president.

After all, thats why we elected em. :)

Anyway, Here is the revised proposal


Chain of Command

In the event that the Designated Player or President is unable to conduct
business as defined by his or her office the following chain of command
shall be envoked in the following order:

President
Vice President
Domestic Advisor
Foreign Affairs Advisor
Military Advisor
Trade Advisor
Culture Advisor
Science Advisor
Govenors
Chief Justice
Associate Justice
Public Defender

In the case of the Chain of Command resulting in control of the govenors
should go by order of seniority by the oldest province.


I have removed all of the deputy possitions from the CoC (Except the VP since that is still in the debates ATM)

Wow, we have two members of the Judiciary that are already against the CoC from the git go. Better dot your i's and cross your t's when writing this one up. :D

I could've sworn I counted all three Justices at this point being against the rebirth of the COC. Have I returned to my invisible status?

I agree with donsig that if we are to consider this proposal, it should wind up in a lower book. Although I must admit that I am shocked to hear the words "lower book" coming out of our honorable journalist's mouth. ;)

Speaking of invisible... :lol:

I could've sworn I counted all three Justices at this point being against the rebirth of the COC. Have I returned to my invisible status?

I agree with donsig that if we are to consider this proposal, it should wind up in a lower book. Although I must admit that I am shocked to hear the words "lower book" coming out of our honorable journalist's mouth. ;)

Speaking of invisible... :lol:
So Cyc admits that he is on invisible mode :p.

I was not sure which part of the books this would belong, The lower books (Code of Standards or equivelent) would be good.

I could've sworn I counted all three Justices at this point being against the rebirth of the COC. Have I returned to my invisible status?

Please do not be offended, my good man. If anything, my oversight speaks to your stated objectivity on this issue, while your partners on the bench were a bit more blatant.