I just got a great idea... :enlighten

What if certain events in history had ended up another way?

For starters, what do you think would have happened if the Confederates would have managed to win the American Civil War?

I somehow wouldn't see myself posting here right now, for instance. May have taken a bit longer for the French to leave Mexico. I can't think much beyond this narrow scope of things, but I do know the whole 20th century would have turned out to be an even wackier adventure.

Please add your thoughts, comments, and a couple more What If questions to this thread.

I like thinking. :grad:

What if German invented A-bomb before US?:eek:

What if Imperial Japan never attk Pearl Harbour but waited awhile and joined Germany in a coordinated attk on the Soviet Union?
What if the Prophet Mohammad stuck to his business dealings (owned by his wife) instead of preaching a new religion?
What if the Chinese Ming expeditions to the Indian Ocean in the 15th century was only the beginning of a massive expansion overseas?
What if Corporal Hitler got killed in the trenches of WW1?
What if the French won the Seven Yrs War and gotten India and the American colonies?
What if the Princip guy failed to assassinate the Archduke Ferdinard?
What if the Ottomans took Vienna in 1683?
What if the Arabs won at Poitiers in 732 (?)?
What if plague never hit the Byzantines and they could go on to reconquer the Western empire?

We can go on and on. I think we have more than enough to worry bout w/o conjecturing on all the historical what-ifs out there, no matter how romantic it is to do so. ;)

What if man would have never come down from trees?

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

What if Imperial Japan never attk Pearl Harbour but waited awhile and joined Germany in a coordinated attk on the Soviet Union?
What if the Prophet Mohammad stuck to his business dealings (owned by his wife) instead of preaching a new religion?
What if the Chinese Ming expeditions to the Indian Ocean in the 15th century was only the beginning of a massive expansion overseas?
What if Corporal Hitler got killed in the trenches of WW1?
What if the French won the Seven Yrs War and gotten India and the American colonies?
What if the Princip guy failed to assassinate the Archduke Ferdinard?
What if the Ottomans took Vienna in 1683?
What if the Arabs won at Poitiers in 732 (?)?
What if plague never hit the Byzantines and they could go on to reconquer the Western empire?

We can go on and on. I think we have more than enough to worry bout w/o conjecturing on all the historical what-ifs out there, no matter how romantic it is to do so. ;)

Yes, yes, I know, I know. :cool:
I edited my first post, turning 'many more' to 'a couple more'. I just realized that it's no fun to have to answer so many little questions like that.

Perhaps it'll be more fun to focus on a few broad What If questions and make long posts about all the possiblilities.

BTW, it's not so much about worrying as it is about killing time and ceasing to put one's brain to constructive use for at least a while. ;)

What if German invented A-bomb before US? :eek:

God that's a terrible thought. :vomit:

What if man would have never come down from trees?

Then we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

And the world would probably be better off.

Ah, to think of a world where it is all wild, quiet and harmonious. (Most of the time. Exception: 65,000,000 before present day. :nuke: )

As I said on another discussion, I hate all cities!!

What if Rome had never been founded?

What if Christianity had never been adopted as the main Roman religion?

Etc, etc, ad nauseum.

What if Trotsky had become leader of The USSR instead of Stalin is a good one.

This approach has been taken by novelists I guess, with the favourite what ifs of time-travel.

The historical what if that comes to my mind is:

What if Chiang Kai Shek had been executed and not released by the Communists at the start of the Sino-Japanese war?

Originally posted by King of England
BTW, it's not so much about worrying as it is about killing time and ceasing to put one's brain to constructive use for at least a while. ;)Aah! But I am already doing that, playing Civ3. :lol: You can't believe how time-consuming it is. Hours can simply disappear into nowhere.

Originally posted by Achinz
This approach has been taken by novelists I guess, with the favourite what ifs of time-travel.

The historical what if that comes to my mind is:

What if Chiang Kai Shek had been executed and not released by the Communists at the start of the Sino-Japanese war? Then I think the Japs would have an easier time in China and can devoted millions more troops (not bogged down in the Chinese mainland) in other operational theatres.
But really, it's Marshal Chang and his Manchurian troops who kidnapped and held the Generalissmo in Xi'an, not the Commies. ;) He simply wanted Chiang to stop the internal war against the Commies and concentrate on the Japanese external threat. The Marshal was a Chinese loyalist and wouldn't have harmed Chiang in any case, cos it would harm China a great deal more.
BTW, the old Marshal recently passed away a few weeks ago in Hawaii. While the Taiwanese were mum bout it, the Mainland Chinese hailed him as a great hero, with Jiang Zemin personally giving a speech and praising him. Guess the Commies owed a lot to him for their survival. ;)

Quote:
BTW, the old Marshal recently passed away a few weeks ago in Hawaii. While the Taiwanese were mum bout it, the Mainland Chinese hailed him as a great hero, with Jiang Zemin personally giving a speech and praising him. Guess the Commies owed a lot to him for their survival.
--------------------------------
Actually, it was the Young Marshal who just passed away. The Old Marshal was Chang Tso-lin, and the Young Marshal was his son, Chang Hsueh-liang. Chang Tso-lin was assassinated by the Japanese.:mad:

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon

What if the French won the Seven Yrs War and gotten India and the American colonies?


Then Western Canada also becomes a French colony. It might not be such a nice and peaceful place, and I'll be speaking French, not English!

Originally posted by goododa


Then Western Canada also becomes a French colony. It might not be such a nice and peaceful place, and I'll be speaking French, not English! No. More like all of North America north of Mexico became French and the USA might never have come into being at all. The Spanish (and Mexicans) might still have held Florida and California. ;)

Originally posted by goododa
Quote:
BTW, the old Marshal recently passed away a few weeks ago in Hawaii. While the Taiwanese were mum bout it, the Mainland Chinese hailed him as a great hero, with Jiang Zemin personally giving a speech and praising him. Guess the Commies owed a lot to him for their survival.
--------------------------------
Actually, it was the Young Marshal who just passed away. The Old Marshal was Chang Tso-lin, and the Young Marshal was his son, Chang Hsueh-liang. Chang Tso-lin was assassinated by the Japanese.:mad: Yes, I know. I mean the old Marshal, not the Old Marshal. The Young Marshal was in his 90s when he passed away, and so was old, in my books. ;)

I think 'what if the Roman Empire had never adopted Christianity' is a *very* interesting 'what if'. Anyone with some serious knowledge in that area care to take a shot at it?

What if V.I. Lenin had been 'just a lawyer'? How long would the Czars have lasted into the 20th century?

Originally posted by shirleyrocks
What if V.I. Lenin had been 'just a lawyer'? How long would the Czars have lasted into the 20th century? Probably not very long. Hitler would have made short work of them. It was Stalin's unhumanism (as well as Hitler's supremacist racism) which enabled the Soviets to beat back the German forces.

But then, had the Czars held on, there might never have been effective Communists in Germany. Hitler might not have been able to use them as a boogieman to come to power. Hmmmmm.......

What if Alois Schicklgruber hadn't changed his name. Would anyone have listened to his son, Adolf? ;)

Originally posted by Magnus
What if Alois Schicklgruber hadn't changed his name. Would anyone have listened to his son, Adolf? ;)

No, but if that were the case, maybe he would have changed his name to Hank. And then the name Hank Schicklgruber would have been despised throughout all of history.

Originally posted by Magnus
What if Alois Schicklgruber hadn't changed his name. Would anyone have listened to his son, Adolf? ;)

"Heil Shicklgruber"? I think not! Shicklgruber became a major thing in history class last year.

What if the Texans would've won the Battle of the Alamo? Would it have done more harm than good because successive Texans would not have had the snappy battle-cry "Remember the Alamo?" Or would the moral boost have been an extra shot in the arm?

What if Sid Meyer had listened to his parents and stopped "wasting his time on that damn computer playing games!"

Originally posted by joespaniel
What if Sid Meyer had listened to his parents and stopped "wasting his time on that damn computer playing games!"

I'd probably be sleeping now.

what if no one wants to help me and I can't finish my essay on time, which will drop me mark from 92 to 62 percent? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9165

Originally posted by shirleyrocks
What if V.I. Lenin had been 'just a lawyer'? How long would the Czars have lasted into the 20th century?

Then we could presume that events would still play themselves out: The February revolution would still take place, and the provisional government would take power. However, without any prominent opposition like the bolsheviks, the October revolution wouldn't happen. Note that the bolsheviks don't overthrow the Tsar, which is the result of a popular uprising, they overthrow the provisional government which replaced the Tsar.

There would, subsequently have probably been no peace with Germany, and Russia would have been beaten way further back, with the germans probably caputring St. Petersburg / and or Moscow. However, the fact that the Eastern front would still be operative would mean that The allies in the west may have been able to win the war faster, and Russia would have been given control back of the captured areas, as happens in our timeline.

After that, who knows? The provisional government may have gone on, and established a democracy in Russia, or the provisional government may have been overthrown by whites and the Tsar replaced. The provisional government may invite the Tsar or one ofhis relatives back to take palce in a constitutional monarchy, we don't know.

However, in WW2, Russia would have most likely have gotten much more support from The Allies, heck it would have been formally part of the alliance, which would have meant it would have gotten much more support, most likely. Also, all those military commanders that Stalin executed would have most likely still been there, and the fact that Russia had it's army practically wiped out in WW1 would mean that it would msot likely have had a well structured, modern army built from scratch after WW1. it would, in my opinion have done better than it would have under Stalin.

However, all of the above is merely supposing that Some fascist leader doesn't emerge during the WW1 - WW2 to take over a politically unstable Russia, which considering the fact that the whites were often very right wing little dictators, is a distinct possiblity.

In which case we would have all been fecked in WW2. A Russian/Japanese/German/Italian Axis alliance would have gone through us all like a hot knife through butter.

In which case, be thankful for Mr Lenin. :D

What if.... YOu(King of England) hadnt been born?? Then we wouldnt have this thread YIPIIIIII

Ahh, but what's interesting about Russia in WWI vs WWII is that under the communist system, the Russians were far more prepared to fight the Germans in WWII!:eek:

Explanation: During WWI, Russian industry was small, but very concentrated in areas such as Lenningrad in the Ukraine. However, the cities were vary small compared to the countryside.
Stalin's 5 year plans in the 1930's were rapid industrialization. There are two important things about this.
1. The growth of the new heavy industry was truly incredible. It was more than doubled. At the end of the 1930's, the Soviet Union was matching the US in production of heavy metals such as Pig Iron.
2. The location of the new industries: Magnitorsk (a Soviet Gary Indiana) and new towns were built East of the Urals, far away from the border. It was these industries that outproduced the Germans and saved the Soviet Union in WWII.

Had the Tsar's or the successor to the Provincional government been in charge, this industrialization would have been very much slowed down. (Stalin used some very immoral methods to create this industry)

I think the Provisional Government would have still fallen without Lenin. The PG continued the war and told the workers not to strike. This upset people and created a gulf in power that the Bolsheviks were only too happy to fill.

Originally posted by PinkyGen
Explanation: During WWI, Russian industry was small, but very concentrated in areas such as Lenningrad in the Ukraine.Last I heard, Leningrad (now known as St Petersburg) is on the Baltic coast. ;)

Originally posted by PinkyGen
Ahh, but what's interesting about Russia in WWI vs WWII is that under the communist system, the Russians were far more prepared to fight the Germans in WWII!:eek:

Well, yes, but if there wasn't any sort of communist system, then Russia would have most likely have been a formal part of the alliance, which would have meant that it wouldn't have had to rely on it's own army and industry to help it fight the war. You could have even had Americans on the Eastern front, who knows.

Originally posted by PinkyGen
Had the Tsar's or the successor to the Provincional government been in charge, this industrialization would have been very much slowed down. (Stalin used some very immoral methods to create this industry)

Well, that depends. If a genuinely stable government had been created, outside investment would have come in, and would have been going into Russia for around 15, perhaps even 20 years or so before WW2. Hence, there would have been no real need for forced industrialisation, outside investment would have created the same effect. Probably a better end result, too.

Originally posted by PinkyGen
I think the Provisional Government would have still fallen without Lenin. The PG continued the war and told the workers not to strike. This upset people and created a gulf in power that the Bolsheviks were only too happy to fill.

I must make one thing clear here: The bolsheviks, before Lenin returned to Petrograd, had no intetntion of overthrowing the provisional government. Indeed, this is one of the reasons why Lenin felt so desperate to return, and "correct" the situation. Quite on the contrary of being opposed to the PG, the bolsheviks were recognising the PG as the soverign bod in Russia, and being conicliatory towards it. The bolsheviks had joined in with The Mensheviks and SR's in the petrograd soviet, which basically, although it had essenitally set up a "dual power" system, had no intention of overthrowing the PG, which it recognised and was essentially working with. The bolsheviks had a pathetic minority on The Soviet, and until lenin turned things around were in no position, and had no desire to overthrow the PG.

Most likely, the Soviet and The PG would have at some point merged to create a parliament.

What if Guderian ignored Hitler's orders to wheel south at Smolensk toward Kiev, and instead attacked Moscow all-out and captured the capitol?

Guderian ignored Hitler and the Army Staff in France, May 1940, by conducting a "recon by force" to the French coast, after being ordered to halt. Thus completing the encirclement of the Allied Armies, and forcing the retreat to Dunkirk. Hitler ignored the fact that he had been ignored, and took credit instead!

FYI - Manstein planned "yellow", not Hitler, as it was executed.

Guderian flew to Berlin in September 1941 to urge Hitler to reconsider the delay in attacking Moscow, only to be shot down. He then returned to his units, begrudgingly attacking south.

But what if Guderian cut his communications lines with Berlin and drove head-on to Moscow? Even the Soviets admit if they had at that time it would have been all over.

By the time the General Staff could have gotten someone to Russia to arrest Guderian, he could have been standing in the Kremlin. Then Hitler would have had to "praise the German Army for carrying out his plan", and the whole thing would have been swept under the rug. Again.

And Russia would be no more. At least not like it is/was.

I love what if threads!:D

"Guderian ignored Hitler and the Army Staff in France, May 1940, by conducting a "recon by force" to the French coast, after being ordered to halt. Thus completing the encirclement of the Allied Armies, and forcing the retreat to Dunkirk. Hitler ignored the fact that he had been ignored, and took credit instead!"

Guderian ignored the orders fr OKW to halt, not direct orders fr Hitler I think. In fact, I think his immediate CO gave him permission to 'recon in force', ignoring the spirit of the orders fr OKW.

"FYI - Manstein planned "yellow", not Hitler, as it was executed."

Yeah and it was ignored by OKW. It was thru chance (thru his adjutant I think) that Hitler came to hear of it, liked it and pushed it to execution. Otherwise, that would just be all it was - a plan.

"But what if Guderian cut his communications lines with Berlin and drove head-on to Moscow? Even the Soviets admit if they had at that time it would have been all over.

By the time the General Staff could have gotten someone to Russia to arrest Guderian, he could have been standing in the Kremlin. Then Hitler would have had to "praise the German Army for carrying out his plan", and the whole thing would have been swept under the rug. Again.

And Russia would be no more. At least not like it is/was."

Highly subjective. The fall of Moscow might have finished the Soviets. Or it might not, cos they still had the other fronts, resources, war materiel etc. Esp east of the Urals. The Germans didn't have these luxuries; that's why Hitler wanted to drive for the Caucasus, purportedly for the oil. I think so long as Stalin's around, the Soviets would hold on.

Anyway, as the final point, the entire Wehrmacht as it was in WW2, would not have been possible w/o Hitler; it would have remained limited to infantry and 100000 strong with only 2000 officers or so.

Don't forget von Seeckt's role in the organisaton if the Wehrmacht - it was his decisions that led to the army being capable of massive growth without serious loss of efficiancy, and of a highly mobile nature.
Also interesting is the agreement between Germany and the SSSR in the 20's of shared military research.

Originally posted by Crazy Eddie
Don't forget von Seeckt's role in the organisaton if the Wehrmacht - it was his decisions that led to the army being capable of massive growth without serious loss of efficiancy, and of a highly mobile nature.
Also interesting is the agreement between Germany and the SSSR in the 20's of shared military research. That's true. The Germans experimented with tank and aircraft designs secretly within the vastness of the Red Empire. I wonder if Hitler knew it was Germans who taught the Soviets how to build great tanks? :D

The whole exercise of building up the Wehrmacht fr nothing to a powerful military force also enabled an officer corps that's much younger and took much more initiative in the field. A lot of the prowess of the German military was due to the on-the-spot action taken by these junior officers. ;)

What if the Spanish Armada hadn't run into bad weather on the way to England?

What if Harold Godwineson decided to wait a few days before sending his exhausted men to Pevensey to fight William the Bastard?

What if John Cabot wasn't lost at sea and England colonized Canada instead of the French?

What if Thomas Jackson's troops recognized him and didn't fire at Chancellorsville?

What if Gordon Meade never replaced Joe Hooker and the Union lost Gettysburg?

What if Constantine never converted to Christianity?

What if Napoleon decided it was not a good idea to invade Russia?

What if King Hardicanute of England didn't die at such a young age?

What if the Pope allowed King Stephen to name Eustace as his heir instead of Henry Platagenat?

What if Arthur had succeeded in driving the Anglo-Saxons out of England?

by joespaniel
What if Sid Meyer had listened to his parents and stopped "wasting his time on that damn computer playing games!"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i would probably had +90% in my exam this last 3 years instead of 70%

What if the french had won the battle of abraham...all North America would have been french...
except the 12 colonies but we would have conquered them by now...
;)

What if Napoleon decided it was not a good idea to invade Russia?

never I would have thought that cause he wanted to do a complete naval blocus on England

...von Seeckt's role in the organisaton if the Wehrmacht
Oops, I meant the Reichsweir of course. :o

What if during the 1962 Cuban Missile Incident (involving NUCLEARS) ,the two leader Kennedy and Kruschev were hostile to each other???
What if USSR still survived and never dissolve?(the world will be more exciting)
What if USSR leader at 1980's was not Gorbachev(WEAK LEADER TOO LENIENT!) and the leader was strong like Nikita Kruschev?
What if Japanese never surrender after being bombed by atomic the 2nd time?
What if Roosevelt never become US president?

If it hadn't been for civ I might have had a chance at running the country instead of DREAMING about it.

What if Chamberlein had gone to war over the Sudentenland...

What if Gordon Meade never replaced Joe Hooker and the Union lost Gettysburg?

Well, we all have a good estimate of what would have happened there. With the Confederate troops threatening Washington D.C itself, the U.S. might have given up. If this were to be the case, then there would be two nations, possibly three if California became independent ( :) or :( ?). Who knows, with the U.S severely weakined, some European nations might once again have turned their eyes to Latin America. Of course, if the U. S. didn't give up, then there might have stlll been a chance to repel the invasion at another point. Doubt the Confederates could have gotten Washington, though. If anyone knows more about this, feel free to add on and clarify.

Now,

What if during the 1962 Cuban Missile Incident (involving NUCLEARS) ,the two leader Kennedy and Kruschev were hostile to each other???
What if USSR still survived and never dissolve?(the world will be more exciting)
What if USSR leader at 1980's was not Gorbachev(WEAK LEADER TOO LENIENT!) and the leader was strong like Nikita Kruschev?
What if Japanese never surrender after being bombed by atomic the 2nd time?
What if Roosevelt never become US president?

Never remember nothing from the Cold War, so....

about questions 1, 2, 3, I can say: "Hmmm..." :(

Frankly, I don't like the idea of someone being as powerful as me and more aggressive... "Duck and cover!!"
On the other hand, the Soviets were a bit less fanatical when it came to negotiations.
Cuz we all knew: "If I go down, I'm taking you with me"

If the Japanese didn't surrender in WWII after 2nd A-bomb, there would definately have been more dying on both sides. An invasion of Japan would have been very costly for the Allies.

Don't know about #5 though.

I don't know enough about the history behind most other What If questions posted so I can't make any guesses, hell I don't know much about what I'm writing here.

I love what if threads!:D

It's nice to hear that. See, thinking is fun!! :grad:

What if France and Britain had been allied with Germany around the time of WWII, and the Japanes hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour?

Would the US have got involved?
If they did, whose side would they be on?
Would the Fascists then win WWII?

What if there had been a pro-democracy revolution in Russia at the end of World War 2? And thus, no cold war? Would nukes have proliferated? Would America have turned towards socialism? Would the third world have been developed in a more principled, ethical manner? Would we be driving on superhighways to fast food restaurants?

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
"Guderian ignored Hitler and the Army Staff in France, May 1940, by conducting a "recon by force" to the French coast, after being ordered to halt. Thus completing the encirclement of the Allied Armies, and forcing the retreat to Dunkirk. Hitler ignored the fact that he had been ignored, and took credit instead!"

Guderian ignored the orders fr OKW to halt, not direct orders fr Hitler I think. In fact, I think his immediate CO gave him permission to 'recon in force', ignoring the spirit of the orders fr OKW.

Wrong. Hitler himself ordered it. He believed the French were massing to the south of the breakthrough, about to flank him.

"FYI - Manstein planned "yellow", not Hitler, as it was executed."

Yeah and it was ignored by OKW. It was thru chance (thru his adjutant I think) that Hitler came to hear of it, liked it and pushed it to execution. Otherwise, that would just be all it was - a plan.

Manstein had dinner with Hitler in Febuary 1940 and presented his plan. Hitler loved complicated things, and soon started tinkering with the Manstein Plan. Later claiming he thought of it.

"But what if Guderian cut his communications lines with Berlin and drove head-on to Moscow? Even the Soviets admit if they had at that time it would have been all over.

By the time the General Staff could have gotten someone to Russia to arrest Guderian, he could have been standing in the Kremlin. Then Hitler would have had to "praise the German Army for carrying out his plan", and the whole thing would have been swept under the rug. Again.

And Russia would be no more. At least not like it is/was."

Highly subjective. The fall of Moscow might have finished the Soviets. Or it might not, cos they still had the other fronts, resources, war materiel etc. Esp east of the Urals. The Germans didn't have these luxuries; that's why Hitler wanted to drive for the Caucasus, purportedly for the oil. I think so long as Stalin's around, the Soviets would hold on.

The drive into the caucasus wasnt until the next year, and was mainly due to Hitler getting his @$$ kicked at Moscow in December 1941. He wasnt up to trying again.

Taking Moscow in 1941 early enough in the season may well have collapsed the Soviet armies. ALL rail supply went through Moscow. The other fronts would have been cut off.

Losing the political head and heart of the USSR, Moscow, would have been a disaster for Russia. Even the Soviets thought so.

Anyway, as the final point, the entire Wehrmacht as it was in WW2, would not have been possible w/o Hitler; it would have remained limited to infantry and 100000 strong with only 2000 officers or so.

There was a rediculously high number of officers and NCOs in the German Army in those years. The clever Germans figured they could conscript a million men quickly and have leadership in place already. Sneaky Krauts.

If Japan hadn't surrendered, they would have been nuked a couple more times, burnt and sacked by the Russians, and Plundered by the United States of America

[QUOTE]Originally posted by King of England
[B]

Doubt the Confederates could have gotten Washington, though. If anyone knows more about this, feel free to add on and clarify.

The Confederates would have aquired DC. Remember Maryland was a border state. Lincoln had to arrest half of Marylands state legislature to stop them form voting to join the Confederacy.

Check out the book - " The Guns of The South " By Harry Turttledove. Some S. Africans give 100,000 ak-47's to the Confederacy. Wild!

Well yes Washington was in a bad spot at the time.

"Guns of the South"? What's that about? AK-47s?

Africa? Ak- 47? Confederacy? Im very sure this did not happen... but it could have... if the Confederacy had won the war and in the future they wanted the rest of US and got AK- 47's from South Africa or something...

Great book !

Some militant white S. africans figure out away to transport themselvs and 100,000 AK-47's to the Confederacy. In the begining they were able you use their knowledge of "history" to turn the war. But as the south kept winning it altered the course of history. In the end we became 2 nations. The real irony was that the south had to free the slaves eventually inorder to restore their work force. It was neet to see how the author showed an election for the CSA between Nathan Bedford Forrest and Robert E Lee. Especially when Lee was kept alive by nitroglycerine tablets given to him to help his heart.

Go Get this Book..

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sounds like a funny book... I will have to check it out.

Hmm.... I do like what ifs, and this sounds real interesting! :D

What if we (the U.S.) failed to liberate Kuwait from Saddam Hussein?

What if fundamentalism exploded in the Middle East? Egypt, Iraq, and Libya all become fundamentalist states.

Id say we would have a big problem on our hands. Maybe they would wage a Jihad on the world? Or maybe they would destroy Israel. Or maybe they would crash planes into buildings:mad: :mad: :mad:

I'd guess that we'd have what we've been trying to avoid for a long time now, a sort of world war between the fundamentalist states and the Western nations and allies, Israel will become a battlezone, God it would be horrible!:eek:

What is the point in writing in this post?? I meen you could under no circumstances get a answer that would be correct, because if we say that Some other guy had been elected for president instead of Reagan then maybe HE wouldnt have been shot and maybe then America wouldnt have Mr Bush today and maybe the Japaneese would have not only bombed Pearl Harbour they would also have tried to take over some of the west coast! So this is a post which has no chance of "Succes" Of course you can write in it but you will never get a "Clean" Answer.

Here's how Professor William S. Allen used to start his courses:

One day a lorry/truck driver was maneuvering his fully-loaded lorry/truck down a hill road towards the center of town when suddenly his brakes gave out. He frantically tried to downshift and he screamed out the window so people got out of the way but as he approached the bottom of the hill there was a man getting into a car that just didn't/wouldn't/couldn't hear him. Though the driver tried to stear clear as he approached the bottom of the hill his lorry slammed full force into the car. However, at the very last moment the car's driver realized what was happening and miraculously jumped out of the way, missing certain death by mere centimeters.

True story. Just imagine what the world would have been like had that lorry truck hit a few centimeters one way or another that day in Nuremburg in 1935, and had Hitler been splattered across the street... No more "Heil Shicklgruber"....

What if Germany Didnt attack russia but Launched operation Sea Lion and Captured The British Isle?
It would be a hell of a lot harder for the americans to launch an Assualt that would have worked. Hell, we could have lost the war.

Originally posted by Cyberia
What if Germany Didnt attack russia but Launched operation Sea Lion and Captured The British Isle?
It would be a hell of a lot harder for the americans to launch an Assualt that would have worked. Hell, we could have lost the war.

Have you read Fatherland? It's a detective novel with a setting that protraits German as the victor in WWII

Interesting read, especailly the cold war between German and America. Although not too great.

Originally posted by Cyberia
What if Germany Didnt attack russia but Launched operation Sea Lion and Captured The British Isle?
It would be a hell of a lot harder for the americans to launch an Assualt that would have worked. Hell, we could have lost the war.

We would have won, anyway.

The only difference is that Nagasaki and Hiroshima would still be standing -- Berlin wouldn't :D

It seems you could fulfil your "What-if" history urges through games. Heard of the genre "Alternate (Alternative) History" ? See the Underdogs site:

http://www.theunderdogs.org/theme.php?id=1

WHAT IF? Military Historians Imagine What Might Have Been. A good book accept it can be quite boring to read for Englishman about a bunch idiots called the union and confederates fight, i fell asleep and skipped a few pages. Does anyone now who won?!

If Hitler got shot?
Germany would have became a communist state, there might have been peace in the world until Stalin would have decided to invade eastern Europe to unite and spread communism.

Originally posted by Vrylakas
Here's how Professor William S. Allen used to start his courses:

One day a lorry/truck driver was maneuvering his fully-loaded lorry/truck down a hill road towards the center of town when suddenly his brakes gave out. He frantically tried to downshift and he screamed out the window so people got out of the way but as he approached the bottom of the hill there was a man getting into a car that just didn't/wouldn't/couldn't hear him. Though the driver tried to stear clear as he approached the bottom of the hill his lorry slammed full force into the car. However, at the very last moment the car's driver realized what was happening and miraculously jumped out of the way, missing certain death by mere centimeters.

True story. Just imagine what the world would have been like had that lorry truck hit a few centimeters one way or another that day in Nuremburg in 1935, and had Hitler been splattered across the street... No more "Heil Shicklgruber"....

Churchill was very nearly killed in 1931 in New York. If he died who would have the stomach to fight on the beaches etc. etc.

Another accident nearly killed Margeret Thatcher
Imagine if Margeret Thatcher died? That would be a good. The pits would be open, nationalision instead privatisation.

What if Washington decided to become King instead of our first president...

What if the Nazi's came to power in America instead of Germany?

What if MLK was militant and lead the blacks in a 2nd american civil war against the 'oppressive' white government?


What if threads are silly but fun :)

I usually can't get interested in these unless they are somewhat "realistic." "What if the Romans developed hydroelectric power?" is the kind of thing that should be confined to Civ.

E.g.: unrealistic/pointless: "What if Germany had invaded the UK in WWII and won the War?" Well, they didn't. They didn't for good reasons: they probably would have got their asses kicked in September, '40. It's much more interesting to speculate on missing reasons, e.g. "What if Hitler had ordered German forces to plan for an invasion two months earlier, leading to a smaller invasion in July, 1940?" Read a great book once on that theory - arguing that at that early date, the invasion might just have worked...

Or statistical flukes that involved human choices are also worthwhile. Not: "What if Abraham Lincoln drowned in a Turnip Patch on May 10, 1862?" But - to steal from Herman Wouk's "War and Remembrance": "What if, at the Battle of Midway, the Japanese cruiser 'Tone's' scout plane had not been launched an hour late due to a mechanical malfunction, thereby giving the U.S. fleet a crucial time advantage? Or what if one of the dozen other cruisers that actually had working catapults had been the one given the search area where the U.S. carriers were?"

Now THAT's a "what if": a total statistical fluke that, if reversed, could have slowed down the U.S. war effort by a eighteen months or more, with all sorts of attendant consequences. There was nothing forcing the IJN to choose the Tone's plane to cover that search grid, but they did it anyway.

R.III

....Gustavus II Adolphus hadn't been killed on the battelfield of Lützen at the young age of 37? He brought Sweden to the pinnacle of its power - give the man who revolutionized combat and fielded the first 'modern' army 20 or 30 more years, and think what Sweden may have become? Perhaps a Great Power on the order of a Germany or France.

What if the British / Hanoverian accession rules had been the same? Hanover would have remained under the rule of Victoria, rather than pass to (I think) her uncle, and the formation of the German Empire may not have happened. Austria could still be a prominant force in Europe.

And on the slight statistical difference note, what if the wound that lost Nelson his eye had killed him? No Trafalger, no Nile, no Copenhagen, a French invasion of Britain, conquest of India and the middle east?