Conquest 03: First Spoiler:

This is the first spoiler for Conquest 03: Byzantines.

The qualification for this spoiler is that you have made good use of the seafaring trait to establish your contacts - you must have contact with all seven other civilizations.

In addition, you must have full-view of the coastline of the starting continent, and be reseaching a middle-ages tech.

Please make sure that you don't post any screenshots that show the locations of middle-age or later resources.


So: Where did you settle? Did you build a fleet of dromons and conquer the seas, or were you the builder type?

This scenario is very hard - but at least you get a monopoly on the Statue of Zeus.

dude i m getting raped. i have 4 cities left right around the starting area. i am at war with the ottomans and carthage. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will not submit this game due to a streak of bad RNG in the middle ages but my AA went reasonably well.
I settled at the cow coast location, which I think most people will have chosen after the pregame diskussion.
Science was full steam writing->CoL->philosophie and I managed the republic slingshot w/o problems.
The first builds where two curraghs and I had all contacts before anybody else even had MM.
Tech brokering went well, I was tech leader since I had contact to India, Russia and Ottomans and didn't loose the lead till shortly before I gave up the game in the late MA.

I had severe problems with the barbs. I haven't played enough Conquests and am not really able to predict their buggy behavior. So I lost several workers and once also two pop in my capital. By that my development wasn't as good and I had only 6 cities at 1000BC.

The barbs did also prevent me hoking up the northern horses and it took well into the MA till I got them controlled.
I entered the MA at 850BC, still only 8 small towns, lots of cash, but low production in my empire.

Sadly, I will not be submitting this one either. After a completely horrible AA, and a complete inability to deter DoW from the AI, I decided to reload from 4000BC and give it a second whirl. Had a little more luck the second time, but still ended up with a loss. All in all, demi is way out of my league, but it sure is gonna feel more comfortable at emperor and below! :crazyeye:

dude i m getting raped. i have 4 cities left right around the starting area. i am at war with the ottomans and carthage. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A little more info! :lol:

This is a tough game given that its demigod, but as far as demigod goes, archipelago is (in my opinion) is 'easier'.

Maybe part of the pre-game discussion should center around sharing tips applicable to certain map types, civ UUs and traits?

A few tips on archipelago maps:

Explore! The more contacts you have, the more options you have for tech trading. Buy and sell, sell and buy! Its easier to keep-up in the tech race than you think, especially if you research the techs that the AI doesn't often go for, and can sell them.

Defence: Without giving too much away about the actual game, as a suggested strategy, look at active defence. For example: How can you stop the AI landing on your shores? If he can't get to you, he can't attack you! The Dromon is a very useful unit, as it has lethal sea bombard. Hunting in packs, you should be able to sink AI galleys fairly easily, and you can even hide in-port to stop the AI galleys getting to you first.

On defence: Use the terrain defensively, and this includes your cultural borders. A little trick that is quite useful is to have a city on the border with a cultural boundary of two, and road to the boundary. Stationing mobile troops in this city (especially horsemen) gives you a free-attack at anything wandering in to your territory - as mentioned above, try and beat the AI to build the statue of zeus: One free ancient cav every five turns is an excellent unit!

My ancient age went fairly well considering this being my first game above monarch which ive only played once. I have about 10 cities but i do not control the horses on the northern part of the island. Have been at war with the Indians once and they only took one city. I entered MA in circa 700 BC. In the Middle Ages i hope to go to war with Indians and conquer more land.

I R Possom i suggest you post more about your game so we can help you.

I was a god of AA, I was the wealthiest middle man, successfully implemented monarchy slingshot and had an extremely early monarchy.
I was the 1st civ to reach MA in 870BC, but... Indians managed to build Temple of artemis, became a cultural monster, and now I have 3 cities already flipped their way (edit: oops, sorry 2 cities flipped but that still sucks) :cry: ....
and talk about Dromons, those stupid Dromons were losing every single battle to..... barbarian galleys, i lost bunch of settlers inside those Dromons.... I lost like 5 ot 6 Dromons, RNG gods simply hate me :mad: :mad: :mad:

What a game!!!!!! :sad:

EDIT: Oh, at least I want to thank AInwood for supplying us with a perfect settler factory spot for Constantinople, that cattle and game were perfectly fitted into same city limit if you move your setler one tile west

I moved my worker twice and found both the cows and the game. I moved my settler inland so I could take advantage of both bonus tiles.
I sent my first settler out naked - he got ambushed by a barb lurking beyond my border. The barbs spawned like crazy and I couldn't move out. I eventually lost my worker as well :)

I had big plans for this map as well. But moving inland delayed my first settler and with two barb camps real close to my capital, I couldn't get going.
I quit and replayed and had no problems as the barbs spawned back in the hills to the north and mountains to the south.

Sometimes the barbs work in your favour if a handy village appears between you and your first AI target - it serves nicely to promote your units. On this occasion though the barbs got there revenge and I was the one that got harvested. :)

My first game in demi level, it's not easy.

I did a few things to make life a bit easier:

To keep the barbarians at bay, remember where the barbarians came from, find and destory their camps with two warriors (1 warrior was not enough, ugh!). Fortify 1 warrior after the camp is destoryed, so that they won't reappear, barb camps tend to reappear in the fog of war.

As for barb ships, i have no clue on how to stop them. At one stage, i saw about 5 or 6 barb ships in a stack, I simply ran, and it keep on chasing my ship for about 10 turns until I saw another civ ship, but I couldn't pass that ship, thus the choice was to goto ocean square or fight the barb ships. My ship sunk, i had no chance against 5 or 6 barb ships :(, strange that it didn't attack other ships except mine.

Prevent other civ building cities: get 3 warriors (because they are cheap) and move to the border near the another civ (say the Indians), keep the 3 warriors close together, wait around the civ border for their settlers to come out. Now, you can attack them, which I think is not so good idea anymore in demi-god level, OR, just block the settler from moving to its desired destination :) , since you know what the continent looks like, you can tell where they might like to build a city. This gives you breathing room to build some settlers and build yours cities, as there is not much land on your continent.

Becareful of what tech you trade and which civ you trade with, be sure to monopolise and capitalise your tech advantage buy selling for best price and holding out on some deals.

A neat way to beat the RNG, well, it sort of works: When attacking, be sure to bring as many catapults as you can. I am not sure what the RNG distribution it uses (could be constant), but statistically random numbers tend to favour one outcome for awhile before switching to the other. Thus, before attacking, use the catapluts to bombard, after you see a series of failures, then a success, switch to the attacking units and go for it (of course, the attacking unit should have attacking strenght > 1 in most cases), then "statistically", you should have a run of success.

Lastly, i always start to prepare for war as early as possible, even building a few extra warriors would help. If a city doesn't have barracks, build catapults.

I think i made a mistake with slinging to republic, may be monarchy would have been better. As I am always preparing for war.

Cheers, Wei.

cotm3 open


Well, I was doing suprisingly well so far, until I decided to take a break and play a lower level Shogun Scenario prior to coming back to the cotm. I lost my autosaves and when I opened the file to load the cotm, I :cry: :cry: :cry: when all I saw was the zip file and the 4000bc start.

Well, here's how it started, only to end by my stupid mistake :sad:

4000bc worker w, see cow and BGs; settler sw

3950bc settle constantinople start min on writing, see game to sw of city after founding :D

3650bc see ivory

3150bc see purple borders

3000bc Livy publishes largest nation list, we are number 8

2800bc meet Netherlands and trade them 101g to get pottery

2630bc meet Russia and trade Alpha+21g for Masonry; Trade india Masonry for Wheel, WC, 27g; Trade Netherlands Masonry for CB 136g

2470bc finished granary (no settler yet). I had positioned a couple of warriors at the choke to keep India from getting to my part of the continent

2390bc Meet scandanavia trade pottery, wheel, CB for writing +25g; Meet Ottomans trade alphabet for mysticism +1g

2230bc found Adrioanople (2nd town)

2150bc Meet Carthage and trade CB, wheel, 256g, 8gpt for Maths; then trade Carthage Mysticism for 274g; Trade Netherlands Mysticism for 50g; Trade Russia math for IW +30g; Trade India math for 58g; Trade Carthage IW for 102g;

1750bc found Cesarea (3rd town)

1625bc Found Nicaea (4th town)

1525bc meet Persia trade alphabet + 29g for HBR; Trade Persia Math for 139g; Trade Carthage HBR +35g for MM; found Varna (5th town)

ibt India Dow on us without making a demand :eek: :hmm: I wonder if it was my warrior I had running in the territory between their culture borders pillaging their roads :mischief:

1325ibt learn Philosophy and get CoL as free tech, start republic at minimum

1300bc trade Russia writing + 94g for construction; trade ottomans writing + 150g for Polytheism; Peace treaty with India we give Polytheism and receive 30g; trade Vikings Polytheism for 171g; Trade Carthage polytheism for 103g; trade Carthage polytheism for 150g; trade Russia philosophy for 183g; Trade ottomans construction for 209g;

ibt Nicaea pillaged by barbx - people died but treasury of 1327 intact

1200bc found Smyrna (6th town)

ibt Netherlands demand HBR (they have MM and it's not a monopoly tech) so ok.

Then the Byzantines mysteriously disappear into who knows where :cry:

I was doing so well with the nice settler factory ( I think at this point I had 2 settlers moving and was going to exceed my record 7 cities at the 1000bc point), and I had a monopoly tech (CoL) and my war with India only had one warrior lost to 3 of theirs

I couldn't bring myself to replay again just for fun as I doubt I could ever come close to duplicating it

you ask for more on my game info so here u go.

i started settling where we started and sent the other settler west.
i slowly started settling the area around me
i built two curraghs and then another settler
for technology i had writing- min philosophy- max and got map making as the free tech
i built the pyramids and two turns before i got statue of zeus the indians built it
they also declared war on me and culturally converted my city i was using for a pinch point
then the russain settled every thing north of me and took two cities when i did give them 15 gold
i got peace with them and now i m at war with carthage and ottomans with four cities left but both want one of my cities when i ask for peace
it is now 70 B.C and i have just entered the middle age b/c after a tradeing spree war has killed my treasury
i need any advice i can get to make it to the IA
by the way DROMANS SUCK <snip> they lose every battle
they lost to a freaken curragh
please help
Please don't swear!

i built the pyramids and two turns before i got statue of zeus the indians built it

how did the indians get the ivory? did you trade it to them or did they take one of your cities? if you traded it to them that was a mistake, nothing you can really do about it now, but for future reference if you want to build SoZ do not trade ivory to anyone. The Byz have an ivory monopoly this game, and even without a monopoly not trading extra ivory reduces the number of civs which could potentially build it.

I could not do nothing but laugh when i read all the spoilers above... :-)
It lookes like all losers (including myself) were only waiting for spoiler thread to open so we can whine, complain and cry about our misfortunes....
Let's wait for the pro-players and learn something on how to play Civilization :rolleyes:

Brace yourselves -- this is a long one (so long, the board rejected the post and made me split it in two!). I found that keeping a detailed turn log made me play much better than I usually do, because I have to justify every decision in writing. ;)

I'm normally a Regent or Monarch level player, so depite two COTM victories under my belt in Open Class, I decided to play this one as a Conquest Class player. Perhaps it was the five Demigod Byzantine/Achipeligo games I tried while I was waiting for the save to become available (all of which ended in disaster by the late Ancient Age or early Middle Ages) that convinced me I'm not quite ready for Prime Time on Demigod.

In 4000 BC, my first worker took a step due west, discovering the cow and the two shielded grasslands. Clearly, this would be a bountiful land to settle. I moved my first settle northwest -- on my next turn, I would settle on this square, giving myself access to the coast, the river, and one shielded grassland immediately (with a second after expansion). My second worker also headed this way, en route to the cow. With my second settler, I decided to head southwest two squares.

In 3950, I was quite pleased when my second settler revealed a game square, as well as two more shielded grasslands. Meanwhile, I founded Constantinople, started building a curragh, and moved my workers onto the cow. I was quite pleased to see the Ivory, and decided to abandon all pretense of winning a race to Philosophy (remember those five practice games? I didn't win the Philosophy race once) and make a beline to Mathematics. At first, I was going to reasearch Masonry, but since a check of the F10 screen revealed three industrious tribes, I decided to gamble on being able to trade for Masonry and started reasearching Writing.

In 3900, Adrianople was founded and began building a Spearman, while one worker began roading the cow while the other worker moved to Ivory so a road could be built to connect it to Constantinople.

In 3750, the cow was roaded and my worker began irrigating it. This is where I realized my first mistake -- I probably should have irrigated first. I forgot that Constantinople would serve as a conduit to the river, and thought I would need to irrigate the Ivory before I'd be able to irrigate the cow. Oh well -- hopefully it won't be fatal.

3700 -- Constantinople finishes its curragh and begins a Spearman. The curragh heads north along the coast. Meanwhile, the Ivory is roaded, and worker #2 returns to help irrigate the cow.

3600 -- The cow is now irrigated, and both workers move to the shielded grassland, intent on roading and mining it.

3550 -- Adrianople builds its Spearman and begins building its own curragh.

3450 -- Constantinople expands to take in the Ivory, but because of my poor understanding of the order in which things are calculated, I lose a turn to civil disorder. Drat! Meanwhile, our curragh rounds what appears to be the northern tip of our home isle.

3350 -- Constantinople builds its Spearman, and I decide to build a Settler. If my calculations are correct, it should be completed the turn after Constantinople hits population 3.

3300 -- Curragh #2 is complete and heads due south. There's a barb camp at the foot of the volcano, but also what looks like a nice area with access to a fish -- that will make a good spot for a city. Meanwhile, the workers split up. One heads across the river onto the third ivory (discovering a fourth ivroy in the process) while the other moves south into the forest, intent on building a road to Adrianople

3250 -- I decide to road the Ivory with worker #1 -- we're going to build our next city in the forest directly to the north of the Ivory. There's a hint of swamp north of there, but there's at least 4 usable squares (more if I get a cultural expansion) I'll be able to use before I have to worry about the swamp. Curragh #1 continues circumnavigating our island, while curragh #2 heads west. If I can figure out how to attach a screenshot, here's where it will go (the blue dot indicates where our settler is headed):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/JFliegel/COTM3-1.jpg

3200-3150 -- Our curraghs continue their exploration, hugging the coast. This island is quite big; if this were a random map, there would almost certainly be rival civilizations on the island (and, based on my practice games, they would have discovered Chivalry by now and would be bearing down on me with a Stack of Doom full of knights and pikemen). While I haven't explored the whole island yet, it appears Ainwood has given us a little room to grow before we have to deal with rivals.

3100 -- Worker #1 begins irrigating what I've come to think of as Ivory #3 (they are numbered by distance from Constantinople) in preparation for city #3. The curraghs continue their voyages of exploration

3050 -- Our settler and our Spearman arrive! Adrianople begins building a worker; Constantinople begins building a curragh. Both new arrivals head toward their new home.

2950 -- The Road to Adrianople (wasn't that a Hope and Crosby movie?) is complete. I decide to cut down the forest to the northwest of Adrianople -- I'll throw the ten shields into a spearman, I think. Meanwhile, our settler founds Caesarea and our curraghs continue their exploration. The big news, though, is that curragh #2 meets an Indian settler. The Indians will sell us either Ceremonial Burial or Pottery for 190 gold (which would leave us with a single gold!). We buy Ceremonial Burial -- not having any culture is starting to make me nervous. Caesarea starts building a temple.

2900 -- Worker #3 heads west from Adrianople to the forested game. Next turn, he's going to build a road. Worker #1 begins building a road northwest from Caesarea, through the swamp, to what will be our fifth city -- it's going to be founded on the coast, where it will be able to take advantage of 3 shielded grasslands and, eventually, a fish. What about city #4? That's going to go south of Adrianople. Meanwhile, our garrison arrives in Caesarea and our curraghs continue their exploration -- curragh #1 has found Indian territory!

2850 -- We begin building the road to the game, and the curraghs continue exploring. There are furs on the western end of our (quite large) island.

2800 -- Constantinople produces Curragh #3, which heads south, and starts work on a Spearman. Curraghs #1 and 2 continue their voyages.

2750 -- Adrianople finishes its spearman and begins building a settler. A call to Gandhi reveals that he now has Masonry and Warrior Code as well as Pottery, but they are all out of my price range for the time being. Still, it bodes well for a Statue of Zeus prebuild. Our new spearman heads toward the site of city #4. Worker #2 begins irrigating Ivory #1, and our curraghs continue their wandering.

2710 -- Curragh #2 meets the Russians. They are willing to sell us Masonry, but they want 59 gold (our entire reserves) plus 8 GPT. I don't try to haggle with them now; I'll wait a few turns. Curragh #2 continues west along the cost of what appears to be a separate island, while the other curraghs continue to explore.

2670 -- More exploration. Curragh #3 may have found a passage east; curragh #2 has learned that the Russians have spices, and may be a valuable trading partner once we have Map Making.

2630 -- Contantinople builds its spearman and starts working on a Settler. The Spearman heads toward the site of City #5. Curragh #1 confirms that the Russians are on a separate island and begins exploring the northern passage around that island. Curragh #3 prepares to make the eastern crossing, which it should be able to do without ending its turn outside the coastal tiles. Catherine yells at me to get my curraghs out of her yard, but won't yet sell me Masonry at a decent price.

2590 -- Things just got interesting. We encounter an Ottoman spearman. The Ottomans have Mysticism, but not Alphabet. Can I pry Mysticism out of them and use it to buy the other 3 techs from India and Russia? I decide to go for it. Mysticism costs me 93 gold, ALphabet, and 5 GPT. I then turn around and sell Mysticism to India for Warrior Code, Masonry, and 37 gold, and to Russia for Pottery and 28 gold. Net result -- I have purchased Mysticism, Warrior Code, Masonry, and Pottery for 28 gold plus 5 GPT, plus I gave the Ottomans a tech they would have gotten from Russia anyway. Not bad, if I do say so myself.

2550-2470 -- More exploring with the curraghs. Our spearman arrives at the future site of City #5 in 2470.

2430 -- Adrianople finishes its settler and begins a granary. The settler heads south. Our curraghs continue exploring (curragh #1 has found Ottoman territory). One of the workers begins mining a shielded grassland that Adrianople and Constantinople share.

2390 -- More exploring.

2350 -- Constantinople finishes its settler and begins building a granary. The settler heads north. Nicea is founded south of Adrianople, in the process dispersing a Gaul encampment. It begins building a temple. Curragh #3 meets the Dutch, who have one unique tech -- the Wheel -- and need one of my techs -- Masonry. The Dutch only have 35 gold, though, so I think selling them Masonry would be selling it cheap. India and Russia already have the Wheel (and Iron Working!), so I'm not sure the wheel is worth it given that I could trade it to the Ottomans and nobody else. I decide to hold off. For now.

2310 -- The exploration continues.

2270 -- More exploring. The road to my fifth city is complete, so I start mining the shielded grassland. The road to Nicea is also complete, so I start mining that shielded grassland.

2230 -- Curragh #1 (I think) may have found a passage to the northern hemisphere. Curraghs #2 and 3 continue exploring.

2190 -- Varna is founded and begins building a temple. The worker near Adrianople crosses the river by stepping northeast. We're going to road and shield this tile, then start building a road to the west, where we'll build cities #6 and 7. My curraghs continue exploring, and curragh #3 sees the edge of another civ's territory. Who can it be?

2150 -- The mystery civ was Scandanavia, who sell me Iron Working and their entire treasury (45 gold) for Mysticism. I then trade Iron Working to the Dutch for 60 gold (their entire treasury) plus the Wheel. The Ottomans buy the Wheel for 135 gold. As I suspected, there is iron in the hills north of Constantinople. Our next priority will be claiming that iron.

2110 -- We meet Carthage, who sell us Horseback Riding for 170 gold. There are horses on my northern peninsula, which I will have to claim soon. The Ottomans now have Polytheism, while the Scandanavians have Writing. Neither is willing to sell at a palatable price.

2070 -- I explore some more.

2030 -- I finish the mine near Varna. I head south and start mining that shielded grassland. I also finish the road south of Caesarea and start mining that. Finally, I finish the mine near Nicea and head toward the iron. Plus, my curraghs explore.

1990 -- More exploring with the curraghs. I still haven't found civilization #8

1950 -- The Indians are getting uncomfortably close to the land I had been thinking of as "my territory." Oh well. They'll be sorry when I get the Statue of Zeus.

1910 -- More exploring.

1870 -- Ditto. Go, curraghs, go!

1830 -- Constantinople finishes its granary while Caesarea finishes its temple. Both start on spearmen. The curraghs explore.

1790 -- In addition to the exploration, one worker starts developing another shielded grassland near Varna while the other starts building a road to the southwest -- we're going to settle on the hilltop/chokepoint that will mark the boundary between Byzantium and India. Or it will be a trade road with India if they get there first.

1750 -- Adiranople finishes its granary and starts a palace, which will become a Statue of Zeus prebuild in 19 turns.

1725 -- We get writing. I take inventory. Russia and India already have Mathematics, and the Ottomans still have Polytheism. Nobody has Philosophy, with the possibility of mystery Civ #8. Neither Russia nor India is building my Statue of Zeus, so I decide to go for philosophy. I can research it in 7 turns at a net cost of 3 GPT. When it's done, I'll snag Map Making (unless someone else sells me Code of Laws between now and then). Then I'll trade for Mathematics and switch my palace over to the Statue of Zeus. Then my Ancient Cavalry will ride roughshod over India. I hope. Meanwhile, Constnatinople finishes a spearman, which I send to the hill northeast of the iron to stake out a spot for the iron city (Constnatinople is, of course, working on the settler who will found that city). I also start building a road to the iron.

1700 -- More exploring

1675 -- Caesarea finishes the spearman and starts on a settler. I sned the spearman toward the hill on the Indian border. Barbarians start storming out of the north. Caesarea switches to a spearman.

1650 -- I call the Spearman back toward Caesarea. I continue exploring and hope the raging barbarians won't vanquish my meager empire.

1625 -- The barbarians continue to rage, the curraghs continue to roam. I move my spearman by the iron onto the worker who is building the road to the iron. My poor spearman fends off two barbarian horsemen, but falls to the third. My worker is captured.

1600 -- Constantinople finishes its settler and starts building an archer. For now, the settler cools his heels. My curragh encounters the Persians, who pay 110 gold for Alphabet. At this point, only Carthage, Scandanavia, and the Netherlands have writing, so I'm still in the running for Philosophy. Scandanavia has Map Making, but won't sell it. I sell Horseback Riding to the Russians for 43 gold and Mathematics. I could have gotten more from the Indians, but since they share my continent and have horses, I'd rather hold the secrets of Horseback Riding from them. Hopefully, the Russians won't sell it to them. I switch my prebuild in Adrianople to Statue of Zeus -- currently, it's going to take 35 turns to build.

To be continued ...

Part 2 of 2 ...

1575 -- Caesarea finishes the Spearman. He heads to Constantinople. Meanwhile, Caesarea starts another Spearman.

1550 -- I win the race for Philosophy. Since I know Scandanavia has Map Making, I elect to learn Construction, the most expensive tech. I start researching Code of Laws and ring up my old friend Ragnar Lodbrok. He buys Mathematics from me in exchange for Map Making and 86 gold.

1525 -- More exploring. My worker finishes the second mine near Varna and heads toward Adianople.

1500 -- Constantinople finishes its Archer, who reclaims the iron. The Spearman and the settler follow him out there. Constantinople starts building a worker to replace the one who was so tragically lost in the barbarian attack. Between turns, the Russians extort Writing from me. I pay them back, though -- I trade them Map Making for Polytheism and 287 gold. Meanwhile, the barbarians throw themselves at my Spearman/Settler/Archer combo. This time, the Spearman successfully fights them off. All this, plus two Indian warriors (but no settlers) move toward my territory. The Vikings buid the Colossus in Trondheim.

1475 -- Caesarea finishes another spearman and starts on a settler. Meanwhile, at the iron, I have a big decision to make. Option 1 is to go with my original plan and found on the hill to the northeast of the iron. Because there's no road, I'll have a wait while I finsih my worker, finish a spearman to protect him, and road the iron. Option 2 is to just build on the iron. The problem with that is it overlaps a lot more squares than I usually do. After some soul searching, I found Smyrna right on the iron. Smyrna begins a harbor.

1450 -- Constantinople finishes its worker and starts on a swordsman. The worker heads off to develop Adrianople.

1425-1400 -- More exploration. Between turns after 1400, three barbarian galleys attack one of my curraghs. The third one sinks it. You will be remembered, Curragh #2! Meanwhile, the Ottomans build the Oracle in Istanbul.

1375 -- Exploration

1350 -- varna finishes its temple and starts building a swordsman. Those two Indian warriors are still nosing around. Curragh #1 rounds a corner and discovers it is adjacent to a barbarian galley as it runs out of moves. Yikes!

1325 -- Curragh #1 has survived! Caesarea has built its settler, and the chokepoint is still available. Hopefully, India isn't moving its own settler toward the chokepoint.

1300 -- Constantinople finishes its Swordsman. Time to start clearing out those lurking barbarians and begin expanding toward those horses in the north.

1275 -- Between turns, Russia builds the Pyramids in Moscow. This leads the Indians to construct the Great Wall in Delhi. Meanwhile, Adrianople expands and goes into chaos. Oops. I quick trip to the F1 screen will fix that, but I've wasted a turn. Between turns, barbarians attack my swordsman, raising him to elite status.

1250 -- Since my swordsman is sitting on a mountain, I decide to fortify him and wait for the remaining barbs to attack me. If the RNG likes me, maybe I'll get a leader out of this. Heraclea is founded and starts building a temple.

1225 -- My elite swordsman defeated the barbs, but he didn't generate a leader (alas!). Constantinople finishes its spearman and starts on a temple. Smyrna finishes its harbor and also starts on a temple. I continue developing Adrianople -- 10 turns to the Statue of Zeus! I also complete the road to Heraclea and start cutting down a forest. Meanwhile, one of those two Indian warriors is wandering into my territory.

1200 -- More exploration. The Scandanavians demand Ivory and I tell them to shove it. They can have Ivory once my Statue of Zeus is complete (in seven turns!). The Dutch build the Great Lighthouse in Amsterdam.

1175 -- More exploring

1150 -- We get Code of Laws. Republic will take us 40 turns at 50% research (which is the most we can spare without running a deficit!) A quick check of the other nations reveals only one tech I don't have -- Monarchy, and the Ottomans ain't interested in selling. My swordsman starts whacking away at a barb camp, and my injured curragh makes the most dangerous part of its journey home -- it must end the turn in a sea square. Seafaring trait, don't fail me now!

1125 -- The curragh is safe; it will put into Smyrna for repairs (and upgrades) in 5 turns. Meanwhile, the development of Heraclea continues. My elite swordsman loses 3 HP fighting barbs and STILL doesn't generate a leader.

1100 -- Between turns, the Indian warrior draws out one of the barbs near my swordsman. More frightening, a horde of barbarian ships show up near my poor, injured curragh. Varna finishes its swordsman and begins a worker. My injured curragh heads toward Varna for repairs.

1075 -- India disperses that barb camp. Oh well -- there's another further north; maybe I'll get that one. My swordsman is still healing.

1050 -- The elite swordsman continues to heal as the regular swordsman joins him in the northern campaign. The injured curragh continues its race to Varna.

1025 -- The Statue of Zeus is complete!!!! Adrianople starts on a temple so I can drop my luxury rate to something reasonable. Meanwhile, Constantinople finishes its own temple and starts on a spearman. I trade ivory for silks with Carthage, which helps the tax rate a little, and send my workers to hook up the other two ivory sources. The swordsmen head north.

1000 -- Varna completes its worker and starts on a harbor.

975 -- Nicea finishes its harbor and starts on a spearman.

950 -- Somehow, Constantinople switched from a spearman to a barracks. I'd waste shields by building a spearman now, so I switch to a settler.

925 -- Constantinople finishes the settler. NOW let's build a spearman.

900 -- Trondheim builds the Mausoleum of Maussolos. On the home front, Adrianople finishes its temple and starts on a spearman. It also builds its first Ancient Cavalry, who heads south to start clearing out the barbs near Nicea. Unfortunately, the new temple doesn't permit me to further lower my lux rate. And that darned Indian warrior manages to disperse the barb camp I was aiming for.

875 -- We continue to explore. My swordsmen start to spread out on the northern penninsula to make sure no more barbs pop up before I settle it.

850 -- Adrianople finishes its spearman. NOW I can cut back my lux rate and shave 5 turns off my time to research Republic. Except ... The Ottomans will sell me Monarchy for 389 gold and Code of Laws. Since I have designs on India, wouldn't it make sense to go Monarch instead of Republic? I make the trade and trigger the revolt, which will last for 4 turns.

825 -- My curraghs explore while the revolution continues. I learn that I am the wealthiest nation in the world, so I got that going for me, which is nice. My Ancient Cavalry continues the southern campaign, while my regular swordsman discovers a new barb camp.

800 -- My workers start draining the swamp north of Caesarea in preparation for building a road toward the horses.

775 -- My regular swordsman becomes a veteran fighting against barbarians, but he is down to 2 hit points. I get another ancient cavalry and send it toward the border with India.

750 -- We become a Monarchy! We also disperse that barb camp with our veteran swordsaman. The camp was on a hill that looks like it will be a fine spot for a city. We build an embassy with India. Compared to them, our military is weak. That's not good.

725 -- Caesarea and Constantinople finish their respective speamen and start on a settler and a worker, respectively. The spearman/settler pair in Constantinople heads north to found a new city.

700 -- Nicea finishes its spearman and starts a worker. Carthage builds the Temple of Artemis, which is nice, since Delhi had been working on it, too -- take that, India. You and your wasted shields! I start roading to the northern penninsula, so my new cities and my horses will be connected up.

690 -- Bursa builds the Hanging Gardens. I finish a bunch of projects (a worker, and two harbors) and begin working on Barracks (in Constantinople and Adrianople) and an Aqueduct (in Varna). I continue developing Heraclea.

670 -- Things just got bad. First Hannibal demand 51 gold from me. I paid him, then bought Gems from him for another 131. That could have been worse -- the savings from luxury taxes will save me 8 gold per turn (as of now), so I actually wound up making back the cost of the gems plus about half of what he extorted. The bad news, though, is that the Russians just landed a spearman/settler combo on my penninsula. Looks like my first war may have to be against them, since the culture graph shows that the odds of a flip are relatively low (see picture). I build an embassy with Russia -- compared to them, my military is weak. Can I afford to fight these guys? Can I afford to let them settle in my territory? I send my newly minted Ancient Cavalry to the penninsula.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/JFliegel/RelativeCulture--670BC.jpg

650 -- Nicaea starts building an aqueduct.

630 -- I lose a turn in Adrinople due to rioting. I've got to pay more attention to cities about to grow. The Russians are right next to my veteran swordsman, so I decide to declare war. If the RNG is on my side, I can kick them off my subcontinent and get a slave worker in the bargain. For once, the RNG is on my side. My veteran swordsman loses a hitpoint, but takes out the settler. I immediately start second guessing the RNG -- why didn't my swordsman get promoted!?! I send the workers to start developing the shielded grassland I will be settling near.

610 -- Arrgh! For some reason, despite my messing with the lux slider last turn, the rioting intensified in Adrianople and destroyed the harbor. Is there war weariness in Monarchy?

590 -- Constantinople finishes its barracks and starts building swordsmen. Smyrna finishes its temple, and starts a worker. Russia lands a single archer near Varna, and I send my ancient cavalry and veteran swordsman toward it. Trebizond is founded. The Russians won't acknowledge my envoy.

570 -- The Russian archer falls when he attacks my mighty spearman. Adrianople finishes its barracks and starts making swordsmen, too.

550-530 -- I move troops around.

510 -- Constantinople and Adrianople finish their swordsmen and begin building, respectively, a spearman and a settler. There's one more hole to plug up in the northern penninsula.

490 -- The Dutch demand Ivory and I give it to them. Caesarea starts a catapult; Smyrna an aqueduct. The Russians still won't acknowledge my envoy. Just as I'm starting to worry about an India/Russia alliance against me, India declares against Russia. Sweet! Meanwhile, Dutch settlers land on my penninsula. Fortunately, I can found a city on my next turn and protect my horses.

470 -- Chalcedon is founded and starts a temple. It will be a while before I can build a road to the horses and over the mountain, but at least the horses are in my territory. My military is avergae compared to India, and the Russians are even willing to make a peace treaty. They want money for it, so I'll give them a few turns to stew, but at least I know I'll be able to make peace with them when the time is right.

450 -- Constantinople and Adrianople finish the settler/spearman pair and go back to churning out swordsmen.

430 -- I discover Republic and start researching literacy. Lots of people have currency, but nobody will trade it to me. Yet.

410 -- More of the same. India offers to trade me furs for ivory, or Currency, furs, and horses for Republic. I decline. I'll attack a few cities first (knock on wood), then get currency in the peace negotiations.

390 -- More moving people around.

370 -- A Russian Galley is off my shore. I buy peace for 20 gold. In retrospect, perhaps I should have sunk it, but I'm not quite sure I want to trigger my Golden Age yet.

350 -- More moving guys around, more building military units.

330 -- Constantinople starts another settler. I trade the Republic to India for Currency and 55 gold -- I'm starting to worry that other civs are well into the Middle Ages. My fear turns out to be unfounded. Only the Ottomans have a Middle Age tech -- Monotheism. I trade my freebie -- Engineering -- to the Ottomans for Monotheism, wines, 46 gold, and 29 GPT. Then I buy gems and silks from Carthage for 68 gold plus Ivory. I buy Dyes and Incense from Persia in exchange for Construction, and I clean out their treasures (a whopping 15 gold) in the process.

I didn't remember to take a screen shot at the end of the Ancient Age, but here's one from the early Middle Ages. Sardica, Naissus and Dacca weren't part of my empire by the end of the Ancient Age, but everything else was:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/JFliegel/MapearlyMA.jpg

And so ends the Ancient Age turn log. If you read all of this, you are a better man (or woman) than I.

[c3c] Open

When I saw the ivory (free SoZ), I decided to go for 20k culture.

Settler factories are much less useful in a 20k game, so I ignored the game in favor of a coastal capital by the cow. I set science to 100% and built warrior military police to make sure it stayed at 100%. I did all my exploring with curraghs.

The seas east of my capital looked promising, so at the end of my first curragh's turn I fortified it for +1 visibility.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/davemcw_cotm03_bc3650.jpg

That first currragh made lots of contacts in the east, but I didn't get the tech I wanted most (Ceremonial Burial) until I met India in 2430BC. So the temple in Adrianople was built 2 turns late.

I dedicated my entire economy to making sure Adiranople won the Colossus race. And it succeeded in 1525BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/davemcw_cotm03_bc1550.jpg

I completed my Republic slingshot in 1450BC and drew a 5-turn anarchy. Poor Adiranople was too big, and starved every turn.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/davemcw_cotm03_bc1325.jpg

As the AIs contacted each other, I set up wars to slow down their research. After I built the Mausoleum of Mausollos and Great Library, they discovered Currency and I entered the middle ages in 530BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/davemcw_cotm03_bc530.jpg

Cotm3 – Open

Started by looking at the screen carefully. I could clearly see the end of an animal to the NW, but I wasn’t sure if it was a lux or food. Moved the worker west and discovered it was a cow. I also could clearly make out the game to the SW. Moved the settler SW 1T and settled.

1st builds were curragh, warrior, spear (timing a chop), then granary. Not sure why I did the spear instead of a granary but I don’t think I had a prebuild available at the time.

Research and contacts went very fast. In fact, as the first 80 turns flew by, I had this feeling that I couldn't build things fast enough.
Research path was Pottery 100%(3350BC), Writing 100% (1790BC)(or max, based on lux requirements), then Philosophy @ max.
Before Philosophy was finished, I was able to trade for Masonry (2550BC), IW(1790BC), Wheel(1790BC), CB(1790BC), WC(1790BC), Myst(1700BC), Poly(1700BC), HBR (1700BC), Math(1700BC), and Map Making(1550BC).

With Philosophy, I took Currency as the free tech (both 1500BC). I then researched CoL @ max (finished 1125BC) and traded for Currency for Construction (1050BC), sending me into the MA.

Units at this time are 1 settler, 3 workers (1 had to merge due to barbs), 10 warriors, 1 archer, 3 spears, and 1 curragh.

So far, barbs have cost me a spear, a settler, a curragh, and a dromon :eek: Also, riots in the capitol have cost me about 1 settler (3 riots). For some reason, I was not playing very carefully when I know I should.

Next step is to take this island. However, I only have 8 cities right now and a large barb population on the north end of the island. One stack of barbs, before the explosion, was 7 warriors and 3 horseman. They were frozen on a mountain above my northernmost town, preventing me from crossing that range. Therefore, towards the end of the age, I finally brought up 2 spears and 1 archer and placed them directly SW of the SoD, on a mountain tile. All 10 barbs died against those units, promoting the vet spear to elite but redlining both spears. I am now waiting for them to heal before moving them north again, to soak up more barbs which I’m sure are swarming. Also, I due to the barbs, the iron is not hooked up and I have no access to horses. This should be corrected very shortly.

the temple builds are holders till i get a firm grip on what's happening with the barbs.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cotm3-gman-1000bc.JPG

I had a similar build scheme as grahamian, I am not used to the dense building style of Dave, even if it is probably more effective.

I placed your Trebizond farther south on a hill, creating both a channel and a fortress against the Indians to the East. But I did not go to war during this phase at all.

Tech trading by getting in touch early with all other civs and playing the middleman is key to success.

I stopped playing later on, as I scouted before and this would be unfair, but I wonder who will be the first to settle the north in this game.

The mountains make building roads difficult, and there is little room for good cities up there.

One could discuss the following: a very tight build and Feudalism perhaps? Going for a Conquest of the Indians in the Middle Ages? But remember, they get Knights +1 HP, War Elephants.

I think it would be helpful if someone could find the thread about barbarian behaviour. Many probably have stacks of barbs up north!

It would be helpful to know what would trigger them to swarm and prevent worker activities e.g.

* Start: Moved my worker W and took a gamble: I moved the settler SW towards the grasslands but still on a river and coast and settled there. I would have the cow in 10 turns anyway. It paid off big time: 2 bonusfoods for a 5/3 settler factory!

What to research? I decided to take writing on minimum and use saving + gpt money to buy pottery (a cheap tech). After meeting India I did so, keeping them happy also with the gpt deal. I chopped the forest on the game tile to get the granary quickly and started expanding.

* Exploration: Built two curraghs, the first went north (of course, with that position on our minimap), and the other south and many turns later I had met every civ in the game. Managed to get ahead in tech by tech brokering and was the first to get to republic even though I had decided against the slingshot (took CoL instead, then researched republic myself)

* Barbs: a nuisance but I ended up losing only a single settler and a few archers. Really bad luck with upgrading to elite though.

* Entered republic around 500 BC, traded it for the remaining techs and alot of gold to enter MA soon afterwards.

* Warfare: My weak military and strong tech position didn't mix :D Mostly gave in to demands except for the dutch (they declared); drew in the Indians to give them something to do instead of racing ahead (along with the russians btw, they both are doing very well). Keeping my shores clean is easy with the dromons although I would have liked my GA a bit later.

* Trade: rushed a harbor and traded ivory around to get 4 luxuries. Didn't care much for the SoZ; the ottomans ended up getting it.

* Gameplan: knights! Enough said ;)

I am quite happy with how I'm doing... it's my first demigod C3C you know! (I guess that's what Ainwood loves to hear ;) )

A neat way to beat the RNG, well, it sort of works: When attacking, be sure to bring as many catapults as you can. I am not sure what the RNG distribution it uses (could be constant), but statistically random numbers tend to favour one outcome for awhile before switching to the other. Thus, before attacking, use the catapluts to bombard, after you see a series of failures, then a success, switch to the attacking units and go for it (of course, the attacking unit should have attacking strenght > 1 in most cases), then "statistically", you should have a run of success.



Hello, welcome to gotm.

I have often wondered about the RNG myself but was "told" quite firmly that it is actually very fair. I have often felt that there are too many runs of bad and good luck but it is difficult to be sure of this, as you tend to notice runs so much when they happen. It is certainly possible to programme a generator which is too streaky whilst overall its stats are perfect, as I have accidently done so myself in my first foray into programming (just playing :blush: ). Has anyone reliable evidence one way or another about this?

Yet again the fog gazers were correct. :goodjob: I wasn’t disappointed when my worker moved W and saw the cow (how do they do it?) and so Constantinople was built one tile NW of the starting position. I built two curraghs to get contacts, a warrior to explore the nearby land and then a settler to go next to the game. My second city then produced a prebuild for a granary whilst the capital city produced extra warriors. (I was caught out badly in the last classic game and did not want to suffer unduly with raging barbs again!)

My first curragh went north then west and the second went south then east, making the following contacts:

3000 India 2900 Russia 2850 Dutch 2710 Ottomans 2570 Persia

I then lost one of my curraghs to a barb galley and the other went exploring uninhabited islands. I finally met Carthage in 1125 and the Vikings in 975. This would have been much sooner if my other curragh had survived the attack. :mad:

I traded frequently with all known civs to keep up in the tech race. I also researched strongly (after an initial 50-turn research for writing) and managed to get to Philosophy first but did not chance the Republic slingshot as Persia had writing before me. I took CoL as my free tech and then went for Lit to get some cheap culture. I’m not totally comfortable at this level so this frequent trading (sometimes much cheaper than the going rate) also helped me in my cowardly stance in trying to keep in everyone’s good books. I also set up embassies with the nearby civs that I knew (India, Russia and Ottomans), using the proceeds from some profitable deals, leaving the others until I had spare cash and they could get to me. :D

In 1350 Persia demanded a tech. I declined and so they declared war but I could put up with that as I was confident that they couldn’t get to me. Last time I checked they also didn’t have iron so even if they did I would not have to deal with their UU. I eventually made peace as I was losing trading opportunities.

Barbs were a bit of a problem and slowed down my initial development. I had placed a warrior on the land bridge so I couldn’t rely on the AI to help me out and so I had more archers and spears than I normally would have. I cleared the main area but the north was a real problem-particularly when the uprising came before I could deal with them. I lost countless spears, several ancient cavs (got SoZ in 850BC) and a couple of settlers that they were escorting. I also saw three AI settlers lost to this fearsome bunch. Unfortunately the Vikings got to the horses before me but I eventually got the rest of ‘my area’.

In 610BC we become a Monarchy but at war with the Dutch who declared war when we were in anarchy. The Dutch were a bit more of a problem as they could reach us but their attacks were too feeble to trouble our swords and ancient cavs. In 550BC we buy currency to enter the Middle Ages, get Fued as our free tech and then get the other first tier techs by trading and gifting techs to the other scientific civs and then buying alliances with many civs against the Dutch to keep them off my back.

If I’ve managed it correctly this is a screenshot of my empire at 1000BC.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64040&stc=1

COTM03_Open

*** Ancient Times ***

4000 BC - Worker W. Reveals the expected Cattle, along with two very nice BG+River tiles. Settler1 NW, moving towards the Cattle while staying on the coast and next to the River.

3950 BC - Worker N, to Cattle. Reveals Ivory. Settler1 settles Constantinople. Constantinople starts producing Curragh. Our scientists start researching Writing at minimum rate (20%).

3900 BC - Worker starts Road.

3750 BC - Road finished. Tech-rate dropped to 10%. Worker starts Irrigating.

3700 BC - Curragh completed and is sent north, production switched to Warrior.

3550 BC - Irrigation of Cattle tile finished. Worker1 moves W to Ivory, discovering more Ivory on the other side of the River.

3500 BC - Worker starts Road. Warrior completed in Constantinople, work on Settler started. Warrior moves west to expore the inland.

3450 BC - Our Curragh, having reached the northern end of our continent, spots another continent to the north east. The coast is 4 tiles away...

3400 BC - Our brave Curragh makes the plunge, ending on a Sea square...

3350 BC - Our Curragh survives! Our Worker completes road to Ivory, and our people are happy. :)

3150 BC - Constantinople completes second Settler, starts a second Curragh.

3100 BC - Our Worker starts chopping forest at the Game in preperation for Settler-factory. Our Warrior sees important choke-point to the southwest.

3050 BC - Adrianople founded on the other side of the river, next to the Game.

3000 BC - Machiavelli claims we are the happiest nation in the world. :)

2900 BC - Constantinople completes second Curragh, sent out south, and starts Settler. Our first Warrior spots a Purple boarder to the west!

2750 BC - We contact the Indians. They have Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial. They want lots of Gold for those techs, so we pass on their offer.

2710 BC - Our first Warrior moves back east towards the choke-point, to keep the Indians off our half of the continent.

2630 BC - Indians have The Wheel, but won't trade. Our second Curragh spots a Barbarian camp with 2 Warriors, on the coast just 6 tiles from Constantinople. Would be cool (or rather "hot") if that Volcano next to it would suddenly erupt... ;)

2470 BC - We buy Pottery from the Indians for 190 Gold. Production switched to Granary in Constantinople and Adrianople.

2390 BC - Our first Curragh makes contact with the Dutch. They have The Wheel, Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burian, just like the Indians.

2310 BC - Our first Curragh makes contact with the Carthaginians. They have 5 techs which we don't have...

2270 BC - Caesarea settled on top of the hill on the narrow bridge to India.

2190 BC - Our second Curragh make contact with Russia. They give us The Wheel, Masonry and 9 Gold for Alphabet. Horses spotted far to the north of our continent, as well as on an island to the east, and next to the Indian boarder in the west. Meanwhile, we notice that Carthage have discovered Writing, and they won't trade it to us.

2110 BC - Our first Curragh finds the Ottomans. They have only Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial.

2070 BC - Adrianople completes Granary, opens Settler-factory.

2030 BC - Our first Curragh sees Russians running around on Ottoman soil, so they obviousely share continent.

1950 BC - We dispere a Barbarian camp.

1910 BC - Constantinople completes Granary, opens Settler-factory.

1870 BC - Our second Curragh survives an attack from 3 Barbarian Galleys and becomes Elite.

1775 BC - There is a major Barbarian camp (3 Warriors + 2 Horsemen) at the northern end of our continent, close to the Horses. :(

1725 BC - Our scientists discover Writing and start Philsophy. Tech-slider to 90% (13 turns). We are the third civ, of the ones we have met (all but two), to discover Writing, after Carthage and Russia.

1700 BC - Nicea founded as a wedge into India.

1650 BC - Varna founded on the west coast. Carthage now have Map Making...

1625 BC - Smyrna founded on the river north of the Ivory.

1525 BC - A Barbarian Horseman attacks Smyrna, but loses to our fortified Warrior.

1500 BC - Our first Curragh spots a light purple boarder, moves that way, ending on a Sea tile, but makes contact with the Vikings. They have Map Making...

1475 BC - Our first Curragh sinks.

1450 BC - Heraclea founded south of Constantinople. Our second Curragh sinks. Russia now have knowledge of Mathematics. Philosophy in 1 turn...

1425 BC - We discover Philosphy, and, yes, we are first! We pick Literature as our free tech.

Tech-trading:

Map Making + Ceremonial Burial from Carthage for Philosophy + 32 Gold.
Mathematics + Warrior Code + Mysticism from Russia for Literature + 95 Gold.
Iron Working + Horseback Riding + 65 Gold from The Netherlands for Philosophy.
Polytheism + 1 Gold from Ottomans for Philosophy.

We now have a tech-lead on all the other civs, and are researching Currency. Iron is spotted north of Constantinople.

1300 BC - Constantinople is the first of our towns to complete a Library.

1275 BC - Adrianople completes Library.

1175 BC - India don't even have Writing, but incredibly they have Currency! They trade it to us for Polytheism, Horseback Riding and 9 Gold. Russia have Code of Laws, but won't trade it to us even for Currency and a lot of Gold. We are now researching Construction.

1150 BC - Ottomans now have Code of Laws while Russia have Currency. We trade our knowledge of Currency with the Ottomans for Code of Laws.

1100 BC - Gandhi demands Map Making as a tribute. We have no military, so we have no choice but to give him what he wants.

1075 BC - Trebizond is founded on the west coast, north of Varna.

1050 BC - William of the Dutch wants Code of Laws. As we are thinking about founding a city or two on "his" continent, we decide to give him what he wants. Chalkedon founded north of the Iron.

1000 BC - Sardica founded up north.

QSC stats:
10 Towns
1 Settler
6 Workers
3 Warriors
1 Spearman
All Ancient techs except Construction, Monarchy and The Republic.
Contact with all other civilizations except one.

http://www.ehnstrom.se/roland/diverse/COTM03_1000BC.jpg

950 BC - India send a Galley our way. It is attacked by a stack of 6 Barbarian Galleys, but sinks every one of them!

900 BC - Naissus founded north of Smyrna.

875 BC - Dyrrachium founded on the continent to the east.

730 BC - Septum founded next to Dyrrachium. There is a MASSIVE Barbarian uprising near Sardica, featuring no less than 30 Horsemen! WE DISCOVER CONSTRUCTION AND ENTER THE MIDDLE AGES!

http://www.ehnstrom.se/roland/diverse/COTM03_End_AT.jpg

I'm attaching an even longer version of the turn-log, with unit-movement and micro-management details up until 2000 BC. I would be eternally grateful if one of the top-players would play this through and tell me exactly what I do wrong in my early game.

(I have already submitted my game, so I do meet the requirements to post in this thread, even though at the end of the AT I had not yet met Persia.)

-- Roland

I think it would be helpful if someone could find the thread about barbarian behaviour. Many probably have stacks of barbs up north!

It would be helpful to know what would trigger them to swarm and prevent worker activities e.g.
2 things to remember here in regards to C3C barbs that help.

first: barbs only attack or move if a unit is SW/NE or NW/SE of it. When I was going to try to connect my iron, my 1st worker moved to the forrest. This caused a huge barb SoD start moving allong the mountain ridge in the SE direction. I therefore moved the worker N to the iron hill and they froze. I build the road to the iron and then merged the worker into Varna. Should have mined the iron 1st but, oh well. when i killed that SoD, the 2 spears and the archer "sneaked" directly from the S, then plopped themselves on a mountain the thier SE. they promptly impailed themselves on those spears.

second: raging barbs produce, iirc, 24 units to spawn at each barb camp when 2 or more civ's exit the AA @ DG. In this case, it was me and the dutch. I would expect anywhere between 20 and 48 barb units on the Northern half of the island, hence the archer builds. I will probably upgrade some warriors to MDI's (i have around 1300g in the bank) to clear out the land once that droman is done. don't know yet as i've stopped at 1000bc and haven't had time to get back to it.

Here’s a little story over my strategies and tactics in the AA of conquests 03. I don’t do timelines so it’s more global write-up.

The initial planning phase.
After moving my worker west he scouted the cow and bonusgras. By moving the settler NW the cow could be utilised immediately and later on the bonusgras. My careerplan was, considering the archipelago map, my seafearing trait and the UU, to become an aggressive, maritime coloniser. The matching studyplan could be to research Writing and Philo at max and get Mapmaking for free. It being a game at demigod-level, I didn’t think there would be enough time to research CoL before Philo. And anyway, in C3C Republic isn’t supportive of a large army or fleet. Up until now I haven’t done Feudalism, so I’ll give that a try. Being scientific I might even get it for free. After founding Constantinople the buildingorders were curragh, curragh, settler, warrior, warrior, granary. The first settler would found the city that was destined to build the Great Lighthouse. The GL combined with seafearing and dromons would make me ruler of the waves for a thousand years. Considering the elephants I probably could build the Statue of Zeus unchallenged after the GL.

The harsh reality.
The first curragh went north and west, the second south and east. Before getting knocked out by barbboats they contacted all the other civ’s. Adrianople was founded to the SW on the river and coast and with a number of BG’s nearby. Excellent. The warriors enlighted the black spots left by the curraghs. Then suddenly I realized that Ainwood must have guessed my initial plan and left it completely ridicoulus. First: the reconnaissance by the curraghs showed that anyone with just a bathtub could sail the seas, Great Lighthouse or not. Second: my closest neighbour, India is connected over land with my. Third: the old G-man must have connected Viagra cause India is expanding very rapidly. Fourth: a lot of Indian cities, including its capitol are out of reach from dromon bombardment.

The revised plan.
Knowing all the other civ’s made me tech leader for quite some time. Trading IronWorking revealed iron on a hill north of my capitol. I decided to fall out of character for a seafearing nation and prepare for a landwar with India. The goal is to marginalise them before they can send their warelephants to the battlefield. India and I are on opposite sides of the Firaxis score (and I’m not on top) so the war will be long and bloody.
My new plan is: after researching Writing and Philo get Literature for free. Then immediately quit school and build cash. Not build the Great Lighthouse but the other GL(ibrary). Knowing all civ’s, the GL will keep me informed. Most of my cities will either build barracks and warriors or build catapults. I build Varna NO of ironhill to get it my cultural area. On ironhill I placed a worker who would build a road there for many centuries to come. Each time the ironhillworker finished his road, I would upgrade my warriors and then the warrior MPing Varna would come out and pillage the new road. That way I could continu to build warriors and have practically no risk of the iron to deplete (I’m pretty sure a resource doesn’t deplete if it’s not connected). Finally: considering the facts that the war will be long and I’m buying (upgrading) my army, it’s in my interest to have a slow tech pace. That way I can rely on the GL for a long time. So each time I get a tech from the GL I investigate who doesn’t’t have that tech yet. Then I can use that tech to start war’s between the other civ’s, which will frustrate their tech pace.

In 590BC, shortly before the end of the AA, Byzantium (8 cities, 325 firaxis) decides to boldly go where only India (18 cities, 935 firaxis) has gone before. Uninvited ofcourse.
My army at that time: 1 settler, 6 workers, 4 warriors, 9 swordsmen, 1 catapult & 1 dromon.
I’m sure the new plan will work…..I think

Here's my first post on GOTM forum.

The way I passed my AA, open class.

-moved the settler inland 3 tiles on Ivory, cow close to. I dont like placing capitol on a coast. The capitol should be in a centre of empire.

-writing on min and philosofy on max. Did not risk free tech by researching CoL first. There was a nonreload-game before where it didnt work. Took Literature as a free tech.

-4-5 cities placed around the capital.

-Built libriries everywhere. They give 3 culture and 50% reseach bonus just for 40shields.

-fought with barbs with a stck of archer+sperman. A very good combination at the earlier stage.

-indians suddenly declared war. SoZ built. Position war. I defended on a hill SW. A catapult and a dromon made bombardments, while archers, swords and ancients tried to kill mainly ingured targets. Many indian units killed, they are ready to a peace but I refuse since happy bonus from the war and hope for units promotion (very little though).

-republique researched. 4-turn anarchy. My two dromons bombard indian coast seeking for their or ottoman galley to start GA. (Ottomans declared war after I refused to give them literature).

-I see indian galley pass the east side where there are no dromons of mine. Hurry one in a closest city. Next turn indian galley is sunk, GA started.

-Peace with indians. Troops send to upgrading as feudalism recieved as free tech (scientific nation). By that time Russians pay 100 gold per turn to me and fight with Ottomans as allies. May be that was a mistake - forcing Russians into battle. Cause I'd like a diplomatik or Space victory.

Going forward I'd Like to tell how got rid of 20+barbs to the north. I unloaded settler on horse tile on the North tip. Barbs camp was 3 tiles away. After unloading They all rushed to the settler. I founded a city. Spended all left money on embassies. Next turn all horsemen dissappered in that new city causing no harm to me.

I dont remember the year of going into the MA, now I play at 200AD and recently reseached Education.

COTM3: Open

My first GOTM of any sort. The Ancient Ages were excellent, my best time in the game. I wish it could have stayed that way all way through :lol:

In 4000 BC, i moved the worker west, and saw the cow. I unfortunately didn't see the game. I moved the settler NW for river, cow and sea. I built three curraghs right off the dot, and set research to writing at min science. I saw the Ivory.

In 3350 BC, my third curragh completed, and i set Constantinople to a settler.
In 3200 BC, this third curragh saw a chokepoint SW of Constantinople. I put a city here (on a hill!) as high priority.

But first in 2950 BC, i settled Adrianople which would be my 5 turn factory using the game. In the same year, India were contacted, on my landmass. The chokepoint city became very high priority. India were up Masonry, Pottery and CB.

The trading game commences

In 2850 BC, Scandinavia was contacted, up WC, the wheel and Masonry.
In 2800 BC, Russia were contacted. They were down alphabet. I shipped her alphabet for WC, Pottery and 10$.
In 2710 BC, the Ottomans were contacted. I trade alphabet for Masonry, CB and 35$.
In 2510 BC, i met Carthage. They were up the wheel.
In 2310 BC, i trade Pottery, CB and 67$ to Scandinavia for the wheel. Horses up North.
In 2230 BC, the wheel and CB goes to Cathy for Iron Working. Iron!
In 1950 BC, i met the Dutch. They were up writing, when we had 7 turns to
go. IW and 10$ to them for Writing. Rep slingshot to risky, they have writing. Philo in 21.
In 1830 BC, Writing and 90$ goes to Carthage for Mysticism and HBR.
In 1750 BC, Writing and Myst goes to Ottomans for Mathematics.
In 1500 BC, the Ottomans get philo! They take Poly as their free tech. I will finish researching philo (3 turns). Dutch pick up MM. Masonry and the wheel goes to the dutch for MM.
In 1450 BC, Philo comes in. Research to CoL.
In 1400 BC, i trade philo to Dutch for 247$. I trade it to Carthage for 167$.
In 1150 BC, the Dutch get CoL before me. Math and 30$ gets it. CoL and 230$ goes to Ottomans for Poly. Poly to Scandinavia for Lit and 140$. Finally contact Persia now too. They don't know much.
In 1125 BC, Literature and 220$ goes to Ottomans for Construction. Trade Poly to Cathy for 147$ and Philosophy to Persia for 47$.
Everyone else starting researching government techs. I self researched poly which i completed in 610 BC and hit the MA ahead of everyone else.

The First Indian War

In 1650 BC, India demanded Mysticism. I refused. I had a choke city, on a hill, with walls and 2 spears. Great kill zone. Gandhi declared. The war ended in 850 BC. Did my kill zone work? Yes it did.

At the walls of Caesarea (choke city), many Indian units met their death:

- 9 warriors
- 8 archers
- 4 horseman
- 5 swords

I lost one elite spear, but not before he did this..

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Justinian.JPG

So I came out of the war with a sword army, 20 shields worth of units lost, 520 shields of enemy units killed and some gold to boot.

Home Affairs

Constantinople founded 3950 BC.
Adrianople founded 2950 BC.
Caeasarea founded 2230 BC.
Varna founded 1500 BC.
Smyrna founded 1400 BC.
Heraclea founded 1225 BC.
Trebizond founded 925 BC.
Chalcedon founded 875 BC.
Sardica founded 710 BC.
Naissus founded 650 BC.

Russia nabbed the horses...my settler and escort were murdered by barbs going there. So that was my AA. I will see you again in the MA spoiler.

C3C Open (wow, first COTM/GOTM too... wish me luck... :) )

4000 BC: Much debate was undertaken regarding the settler move. As for
myself: we stayed put. Byzantium built 4000 BC.

3950 BC: As discussed additionally, the slingshot is started.

3400 BC: Following the cultural expansion, the cows are being worked.
It'll probably be nice to put a production city on that river at a
later time...

2950 BC: Russians and Indians. Neither one has talked to the other
though; after two trades, I'm two techs richer (as are my rivals)...
I'm maybe one tech behind Russia and even with India.
[Ind: cerem. bur. - 100 gld +6gpt]
[Rus: alph - pottery]
[Ind: pottery - 100 gld +2gpt]

And to the interest of few, probably because I'm preaching to the
crowd... this is a BIG island. And only two civ's on it... uh-oh.....

2030 BC: Bad news, Russians already have writing. Give some money for
Masonry and cross my fingers.

1300 BC: The slingshot... kinda worked. Amazingly enough. I started
Phil., hoping that I could trade for CoL somewhere down the line... but
no dice. Shoot. Oh well, Monarchy gained from it; I believe I hold
the tech lead for the time being. The Russians were happier gaining
Mapmaking, and refused to trade it to me. The Vikings, if I remember
correctly, had no such problems. With my super curraghs, making
contact with everyone possible.

950 BC: Missed by one turn, oops. Anyway... numbers are eight cities
and the units below, as well as the map.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64049&stc=1

750 BC: Barb uprising. Must've been the Russians, I've been a taker
more than a giver so far... and sure enough, it is. I'm going to see
if I can scrounge up the money for my own MA advancement.
--And sure enough, after speaking with the Vikings, my own middle age
popped at 750 BC. As a player who has handled Regent without much of a
problem and still has issues with Monarch at times, I must admit that
this is the earliest MA I've ever received. MA Tech: Engineering.

Things to ponder for next GOTM:
Indians are LARGE. And in charge. I should have attempted SOMETHING
against them, but I didn't. I'm still not a very good player when it
comes to starting military conflicts. Additionally, after reading Dave
McW's commentary, I see I probably attempted the wrong path with this
game. Unless the AIs start taking each other down a few pegs, I'm
probably sunk. Oh well, we'll just keep on plugging away and see what
happens. :)

With this amazingly quick tech-pace, I may attempt to draw others
into wars before the time comes for United Nations and see if I can
wheedle out a diplomatic victory out of this mess... :)

What technologies should i research, in the Middle Ages, if I wish to stay ahead in the tech race? And should i try to go to war to stay ahead in tech race?

I R Possom for technology i had writing- min philosophy- max and got map making as the free tech
i built the pyramids and two turns before i got statue of zeus the indians built it

It's not a good idea building Piramides unless u got a lot of land to settle. Map Making is also not the best step as AI likes to resarch it by its own.

Jason Fliegel My elite swordsman defeated the barbs, but he didn't generate a leader

Barbs never bring leaders.

What technologies should i research, in the Middle Ages, if I wish to stay ahead in the tech race? And should i try to go to war to stay ahead in tech race?

You can do one or the other. If you want to research you should research the upper side of the mediaval techs. The AI tends to research the lower side first, so that way you can trade. Moreover you are scientific so you could take advantage of Education.
It's also possible to go pointy-stick research: attack India in force and take two or three cities. Then offer peace for tech's. Continue to build your army and repeat the procedure after 20 turns. It only works ofcourse as long as India is capable of serious research and you are militairy superior.

The seas east of my capital looked promising, so at the end of my first curragh's turn I fortified it for +1 visibility.

Now that's a new trick to me; very handy to know. Does it work for land units as well?

The seas east of my capital looked promising, so at the end of my first curragh's turn I fortified it for +1 visibility.

Now that's a new trick to me; very handy to know. Does it work for land units as well?

And if you have end of turn switched on, would it then be possible to fortify a unit and then go back, unfortify and give new orders to that unit before having to end the turn?

Akane: Yes.

Akane: Yes.
Wow, the things I learn here. Such as this and how to not be beaten within six seconds at this COTM... :)

first: barbs only attack or move if a unit is SW/NE or NW/SE of it.

That's not true for zero defense units, as my dead workers cannot tell you any more. :cry:
So you also have to cover workers and settlers always.
I had also another problem. Two barb horses were comfortably resting in the north and I just ignored them. Then all of a sudden they moved, probably because steenkin' Ghandi sent a warrior. Three turns later they came out of the fog again ready to attack my capital. :mad:
Coupled with the fact that I also lost several archers attacking with theoretical good chances, the barbs were more than a nuisance in this game.
I think raging barbs on demi-sid is just crazy :crazyeye:

Finished qualifing for this last night, but won't get write up out until later.

Jason: I did read your whole post (so it was worth posting) and very nice start. A couple of things to note: You can't get a great leader for battles with barbarians. After my unit becomes elite I normally withdraw him from the barb wars (if I can afford it) and send out another unit. As for your choice of Code of Laws as the Philosophy bonus, COL is one of the cheaper AA techs, you'd have gotten a lot more value from another tech.

For those who were complaining about when attacking barbarians, there isn't any bonus when attacking at this level (on little or none defensive), so if you attack with a warrior or archer against a barb warrior fortified on a mountain or hill, your below a 50-50 win chance. As for Dromon losses, I've only built 1 so far and it's killed the only barb galley it met (just good luck in RNG).

For those who gave it up early, for a learning expierence try it again and concentrate on exploration, contacts, trading and expansion. You can get a couple of curragh built before Constantinople can do much else. Get them out exploring ASAP. You don't have to break the bank on your first contact. Wait until you meet a couple more AI and try to buy tech A from AI 1 and trade it to AI 2 for tech B and then sell tech B back to AI 1 for your cash back. JasonFleigal did this very well a couple of times getting 3-4 techs and winding up ahead on cash. The story of Theodora to follow later today.

That's not true for zero defense units, as my dead workers cannot tell you any more. :cry:
So you also have to cover workers and settlers always.
I had also another problem. Two barb horses were comfortably resting in the north and I just ignored them. Then all of a sudden they moved, probably because steenkin' Ghandi sent a warrior. Three turns later they came out of the fog again ready to attack my capital. :mad:
Coupled with the fact that I also lost several archers attacking with theoretical good chances, the barbs were more than a nuisance in this game.
I think raging barbs on demi-sid is just crazy :crazyeye:
that was very true of my worker, as long as it wasn't directly next to the barb. However, your point is correct if you are directly N/S or E/W, then yes, you need a defense of at least 1 (edit)to ensure that the barb won't move. i gotta find that thread for everyone...
the movement you noticed due to an AI civ unit is definitely something you need to be on the lookout for. Once the barbs get "unstuck", you are no longer in control and they could end up anywhere wrt your units. though it is a good tactic to just let the AI civ's kill all the barbs for you. that was how I got my town south of the capitol.
barbs are a pain and i hate them. remember that you get a disadvantage attacking them @ emperor and above, which makes them even more difficult to deal with. good luck :)

first: barbs only attack or move if a unit is SW/NE or NW/SE of it.

Oh, yes, there's no question of that with regards to combat units. Later on in my game the Dutch built a city near the northern tip of the peninsula you start on (below the swamps). There was a stack of 32 Horsemen immediately south of them. We were at war and the only way to get to them was to power through the horsemen, attempt a naval invasion, or try and go past them (into a SE tile) and get butchered. Annoying.

I probably couldn't relate anything here that hasn't been done better... I decided to give up in 1510 AD anyway. Fighting TOW Infantry with Cavalry isn't exactly my idea of fun. :rolleyes:

I think it would be helpful if someone could find the thread about barbarian behaviour. Many probably have stacks of barbs up north!

finally, here's the bug report -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87625

COTM03: Open Class

As usual, I am torn between being a Builder and a Conquerer. I can never seem to dedicate myself to one or the other. Probably why my scores are mediocre.

Anyway:
Set Tech path to: Pottery, Writing, Philosophy (going for Monarchy as free tech).

Build some Curroughs & warriors for exploration. Meet all Civs by middle of AA. Trading puts me ahead in the Tech race.

India spreads like cockroaches. And then they get the Pyramids and spread like diseased cockroaches. Incredible.

I establish embasies with most of the civs. Several declare war on me for not giving in to demands. I form alliances to get as many as possible into War Mode. I don't even build one Offensive unit. Russia is allied with me against Ottoman's. Netherlands are allied with me against Persia. India wants too much for alliance or even ROP. He is happy to expand like a mad man, and worries me greatly with his size. I don't know why he does not demand tech from me - I have no deals at all with him.

Fours turns to completing the ToZ, I am now at war with Russia, Carthage, Dutch. I am allied with Ottoman's and Persia. Persia is huge but Technologically challenged. I have Iron hooked up but no Swords. Horses are secured but a long way from being hooked up. India finishes the Great Library. India signs alliance with Russia against me :eek: I finally build my FIRST offensive unit!! (He is quickly dispatched by Regular Indian Archer).

He takes 2 or 3 workers and pillages some roads, but my Spears hold him back (I have a city at the pinch-point). A great Leader is born from one of my valliant Elite Spears. He is in great risk of being destroyed, as I am down to 1 Elite Spear and 1 Veteran Spear in that city, and India is coming with Horse, Sword, and Archer forces. My Droman also sees a bunch of Midevil Infantry rolling out of Indian cities on the way to the front. In the Pinch City, I rush build Spear and then Archer and then Walls and back to more Spear. India is held off for now, and my Leader is relatively safe :cool:

I have finished the ToZ and also triggered my Golden Age with a (rare) Droman victory. I have a couple of Pikes on the way to fortify the Pinch-Point City, as well as a couple of Midevil Infantry. I plan to make an Army out of Ancient Cavalry. I am also 7 turns away from Chivalry, with a small pre-build set for Knights Templar - I should get it with the extra shields coming in from the Golden Age.

I don't know the exact numbers right now, but India is AT LEAST 4 times my Size (maybe even 5 times) and Score and Culture. However, I will not end this war until he is decimated and I own the Pyramids (Great Library will be obsolete by then) and most if not all of his land. Then I will continue with Russia. I am dead last in score and culture, and I think Land Area as well. I hold a Tech advantage by the skin of my teeth.

RNG Blues - :(
I lost 4 or 5 Curroughs and 4 Dromans :mad: to lowly Barbarian galleys.
I lost a Sword, 2 Archers (1 Elite), a Veteran Spear, and 2 Midevil Infantry (1 Elite) to Regular Indian Archers. I watched as a red-lined Regular Indian Warrior took out a stack of fortified Barbarian Warriors.

Finished qualifing for this last night, but won't get write up out until later.

Jason: I did read your whole post (so it was worth posting) and very nice start. A couple of things to note: You can't get a great leader for battles with barbarians. After my unit becomes elite I normally withdraw him from the barb wars (if I can afford it) and send out another unit. As for your choice of Code of Laws as the Philosophy bonus, COL is one of the cheaper AA techs, you'd have gotten a lot more value from another tech.

Thanks. I never knew that barbs couldn't trigger the creation of leaders, so withdrawing elite units from barb wars makes sense. Isn't it also the case that barbarians can't trigger Golden Ages?

As for Philosophy, you misread or (more likely) I wasn't very clear in what I posted. I picked Construction as my freebie and then immediately started researching CoL.

COTM03: Open Class

Russia is allied with me against Ottoman's. Netherlands are allied with me against Persia.

Fours turns to completing the ToZ, I am now at war with Russia, Carthage, Dutch. I am allied with Ottoman's and Persia.

You ought to be more consistent with your friends and foes. At higher levels the AI rather remembers you as a foe than as a friend if you've been both.

Redbad:
I have NOT gone back on any deals or alliances. I stayed at war for the full 20 turns, cancelled the Alliances and made Peace. I have been very careful about my reputation. No ROP Rape or backstabbing for me.
I have not declared war on anyone this game (yet). It's all come from the AI demanding things from me and I refuse. The people that I am at peace with are more than happy to trade with me - my rep is good.

If the AI chooses to "hold a grudge", well, so be it. They will all be dead in the end anyway. :hammer: :ar15: It's Conquest/Domination all the way for me this game baby!

al thor:
My rep is not good: i had 2 times peace with gandhi for only 10 turnes (by that time I had regrouped). But my long lasting friendships with the Dutch (I have somehow a weak spot for them) and with Carthage kept them allways polite or gracious. Russia has been my friend too, but she had accidently build one city on my parish. After I insisted that I should manage that city, she never forgave me and stayed furious nearly all the time.
I'm going for space, so my rep isn't al that important either.

Here is what I noted during my turns. Pretty random events that I noted. I stop when I find Persia instead of right when I get to the Middle Ages. I will also attach a couple of screenshots, also taken at random. I think I will be submitting this game unlike a number of the first posters, although as a loss, as I see no way of catching up in tech. My main mistakes have mostly concerned barbarians and non-focus on military. Although I managed to establish a city at the choke and beyond it, when the time comes (came) I have no way to hold it. But I guess that will have to wait for the next spoiler.

2710 BC - First thing worth noting happens. I meet Russia and India the same turn. India has alphabet, unfortunately, but Russia does not, so I get Warrior Code, Pottery, and Ceremonial Burial for the Alphabet and 3 gold.

2470 BC - Another big round of trading, after meeting the Ottomans and the Vikings the same turn. I manage to even up with most, and leave a few behind, as well as gain over a hundred gold. Will use it to establish embassies and find out who knows who (after getting writing that is). Of course, with writing due in 19, it will be awhile, but it seems like most are unaware of each other, based on the fact that they all had different techs even though they are relatively near. I also discover that most have built three or four settlements, while I have only built one, and will not be building more especially quickly because there does not seem to be any settler factory material. At the very end of my turn, I decide to use a veteran warrior to attack a conscript barb in grassland. Of course, I lost, and can't expand north until I get another warrior. Am pleased, however, to find iron.

2390 - Having serious barb problems, with them coming at me from the north and the south. Also meet Carthage, who gives 95 gold for The Wheel.

2190 - Carthage has Math, but wants more for it than I can get back. I will want it though, as it seems that I am the only civ with Ivory, which creates the possibility of some conquest, which I had pretty much ruled out with this being my first demigod attempt a week and a half after my first emperor attempt.

2150 - Then again, maybe not. India booted me from her territory, and I noticed she is up to six, and I am just about to build my third at or near the choke.

2030 - India picks up Math, meaning Carthage will give it up for Mysticism and Iron Working, which is fine with me. So now I am even with Carthage and India, up on everyone else, and have 431 gold, while everyone else except India, who has apparently been barb hunting, has 0.

1990 - Scandinavia somehow gets writing, seven turns before me. I decide to take a chance and don't trade with him to get it, hoping he won't trade it around (not much to trade).

1950 - Decide to start Adrianople on SoZ. Probably a bad move at this point, but I could use some free units, and the earlier I get it, the more I get. I may switch it to Caesarea instead though. I also lost one Curragh last turn to barbs, while another was victorious.

1830 - Lose a settler to barbs, because I sent a warrior as escort instead of spearman. Adrinople threatened.

1725 - Though with the barbarians, this game has gone from bad to depressing, there is one bright note. The Russians and the Ottomans have contact, and the the Scandinavians and the Carthaginians have contact, but are at war, so I can pretty well control who knows what for a little while longer. I still don't know the last civ (Persia according to F10), though.

1650 - I have lost another settler to barbs, and am in big trouble. I hope I make it to the middle ages.

1000 - Carthage is easily the tech leader, already in the middle ages. I am working on Currency at the 50-turn rate, and I guess Scandinavia is done with researching, after a short burst. I have tons of gold, but only six cities and a settler. Overall, I am in terrible shape, and would probably be getting close to colonizing another island if not for my blunder with the barbarians. I think I will be trapped here, and eventually eaten by the Indians.

900 - The Dutch are coming to settle my island!

850 - For some reason, the Dutch galley was never attacked by barbarians, so I was surprised when a barbarians galley came and sank my Dromon. It only lasted two turns.

690 - Galleys, presumably with settlers, are swarming. I may have a small advantage in settling elswhere in that I know where everything is, but I failed to get everything north of the choke point. I traded into the Middle Ages and got both gov techs for all my money, pretty much. Got Fuedalism for free tech, and made all my money back plus a little extra, and picked up monotheism. I am also preparing to remove the Dutch from my island, though that still leaves Indian settlements and a Russian settler. Even though I have the gov techs, though, it is not at all worth it. Support costs in republic would eat me up, and I would rather go republic for commerce bonus and my lack of warring. I would like to only make one switch, so I will just learn Engineering at the 50-turn rate and hope I can expand a bit before making the switch to republic.

610 - Lost my second dromon to barbs, this time I was attacking, and the barb again didn't lose any hp. I did manage to destroy the Dutch settlement without loss, and have yet to see a response.

IT - India demands Monarchy, I give it up without hesitation. I would be destroyed in a matter of turns if India decided she wanted me gone. I am waiting on SoZ so I don't have to be so submissive, but I have a feeling it won't make a huge difference.

570 - Finally found Persia, though I can't talk to them yet. Next turn, will see where they are.

First screenshot (choke.jpg) shows the Ottomans defense of the chokepoint on their continent, which I was surprised to see so early. Next two are pretty self explanatory, my empire at 1000 B.C., and my empire at 2800 B.C., the year Adrianople was founded.

Edit: Forgot to mention something. The reason it took so long to find Persia was a group of barbarian galleys in the way. Twice I lost curraghs while going towards what would be being Persia.

So what is your overall strategy in one sentence?

Cultural / Space Race or Conquest?

If you are an aggressor, WHOM do you want to subiugate first?

As probably most have the Statue of Zeus, why not try to mess with India, in spite of the War Elephant being a strong attacker.

They are peaceful, aggression 1. You have a natural chokepoint to protect your empire if this war should really go wrong: the small landbridge near the Indian subcontinent. Many players have established a channel-city there.

You could even use your Dromons for defence!

They are peaceful, aggression 1. You have a natural chokepoint to protect your empire if this war should really go wrong: the small landbridge near the Indian subcontinent. Many players have established a channel-city there.

You could even use your Dromons for defence!

There were a smattering of people who had and also didn't have that chokepoint. I took it myself... but then the Indians forced me from it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if others had the same problem...

Trust me, the Gandhi in my game is more than happy to get my land. :crazyeye:

So what is your overall strategy in one sentence?

Cultural / Space Race or Conquest?

If you are an aggressor, WHOM do you want to subiugate first?


I didn't decide on victory-type on forehand. In this situtation it seemed problematic to win without dealing with Gandhi. But by the time I would have defeated India the other civs would strong and advanced. It will not be easy to get rid of them too. On the other hand: the former Indian grounds are very well suited for a builders-victory like spaceship. So I decided to go for that one.

Start
My start was well planned. I’d built a practice map and tried out my strategy, so I knew my build order, depending on what other resources were revealed.

I was sure we had a cow to the NW, so much so that when it was actually revealed, I did not even think about it.

Settler moves W then N to cow hex. Settler moves one hex NW

My strategy was to build settlers as quickly as I could. I wanted to grow fast and grab territory on other islands as soon as Droms are ready. I planned to research pottery at 100% (17 turns) and have a granary prebuild ready to go when pottery was complete. Since C3C has 4 turn forest cuts, this would be integral to my quick start. After the Cow was irrigated and roaded, I would start cutting, even after I saw the two BG to the west. 10 shields in 4 turns was worth more then +1 shield after 6 turns of mining. Based on my pre-game practice, I would get 2 cuts (20 shields) added to my 60 shield granary.

Another issue that was discovered in my pre-game practice was that my city growth from 2 to 3 would occur about the same time as my granary completing. This was a problem because I would have more food and my granary half full if I completed it before I grew the city from 2 to 3. My practice showed me growing 1 or 2 turns before the granary completed. This caused me to violate a cardinal rule and stop my growth (stop working the cow! STOP WORKING THE COW!! ARE YOU INSANE?) for 2 turns so my granary would finish before my city grew from 2 to 3.

I had also planned to cut during my settler build, so that I was only depending on my growth (8-10 turns depending on 2 or 3 food/turn) before I was ready to complete my settler. This worked out perfectly, as I got one cut (10 shields) added to my first settler by starting the cut right after the granary was complete, during a curragh build before I started my settler.

So the initial build order looked like this; curragh, warrior, curragh, granary (2 cuts), curragh, settler (1 cut). I also managed to cut 1 turn off the settler build by using the extra shields the city got when growing from 3 to 4. The first city was founded 2 hexes south of Constantinople on the neck with access to the bonus food and the fish tile.

So I only had time for 3 curragh and 1 warrior before the first settler was built. This turned out to be an ok number for the layout of this map. I had seen all of my continent and explored well to the west with just these 4 units when the first settler was produced.

Research
My early research into pottery turned out to be required because India and Russia (my first contacts) would not trade it to me. I got pottery around 3000bc. I started on writing next, planning on going to Philosophy after that. I was not sure I would be able to trade for Code of Laws before I finished Philosophy, so the Republic slingshot was really more of a long-shot. :cool:

I broke another golden rule during my research of writing. When I started, even with 90% research, it appeared that I would take the max number of turns to research it. (50 turns). Instead of researching at 10% and putting the money into gold, I kept going at 90%. As I grew my number of cities, the early beakers that did not appear to be keeping up with the minimal research rate did significantly shorten my total research time. I discovered writing in 1830BC.

I made contact with the other civs quickly.
India –3100BC
Russia –2750BC
Ottoman – 2430BC
Netherlands - 2230BC
Carthage – 2190BC
Vikings -2190BC
Persia – finally in 875BC

1000BC – 5 cities
1 settler
5 workers
3 warriors
1 archer
3 spearman
2 swordsman
2 dromons

Got Phil in 1425bc and I was first – Took mapmaking to get Dromons to deal with barbs. Turns out to have been a mistake since another civ got it around the same time and it had no trade value.

Bad stuff starts to happen

The first problem was that I started to lose curraghs. I was losing 60% of the time I ended on a sea tile. On 1475BC I lost my sixth curragh to a barbarian

On 1660BC I lost a Settler and Warrior standing on the Iron resources north of the start. I ended up losing another vet swordsman and an archer before I got Dromons to do the job and take out the barbs.

India DOW on me out of the blue. This was a problem due to my very small army. I was in the middle of a big settler push and switching over to units really hurt. I was unable to colonize the north of the starting continent or the eastern ones due to this. I was able to retake the one city they took with the help of several Dromons.

I entered MA in 650BC and got 7 turn anarchy with 6 cities!!!

NPStan

to sum it up.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to ask for some advice. I am a bit of the way into the Middle Ages, and Adrianople is still a flip risk of 1.54%. Required garrison would be 40, I have 9 right now. There is no way I can get that many more units in there, but I don't want to lose it since that is my SoZ city. I have built a Library, Marketplace, Temple and Cathedral there, the last three all to try to stop a flip. Should I continue sticking any unit in there to decrease the odds of a flip, or empty it so when it does flip, I don't lose a huge portion of my army?

I'm doing decently so far. I don't have time for an extensive write up but wow this is hard. I'm way out of my league that's for sure. =)

I settled the capital next to the cow and on the coast/river and then settled the second city next to the game (2 squares between two cities). I proceeded to settle my third city on the forest between the 3 ivory. My 4th city went on the hill /choke point. I had already met with India and explored around the coast and decided that it would be in my best interest to grab as much land from India ASAP since the rest of my island was mine for a while guarenteed. I made a ton of warriors and made a warrior wall to prevent India pushing any further east. I immediately founded 4 cities on India's side of the choke point, grabbing the horse/tobacco. These were actually strong locations and will be useful in later wars vs. India. I then proceeded to build walls in the 3 border cities and then libraries/aquaducts and I massed troops there to prevent flips.

As of entering the middle ages I have the entire island claimed and a road network with most of my core cities worked to good size production capacity. I have avoided wars at all costs and have RoP with all civs. I managed to stay on top of the tech pace the whole time and have a good size treasury. I have SoZ of course and libraries/temples/barracks/Aquaducts in most of my core and my culture is really taking off.

India is a huge threat at this point. They only want to stay peaceful with me because I give them ivory, but they are very unhappy. They are massing troops and are a constant threat even though I have much of their side of the island in my hands already. Ottomans have just about finished off the Russians so they are a galiath on their huge island by themselves.

This is going to be a rough game. =(

Here's my map a little ways into the MA. As you can see I'm trying to set up a cultural/military barrier against the Indians who are really annoying me. We are going to have to stomp them out quick, thus the stack of ancient cavalry and midieval infantry outside Dheli.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Conquest_Game.JPG

note, the tech pace in my game seems abnormally slow. I was the middle man for a very long time. No other civs really contacted each other for a few thousand years. I was able to steadily gain a tech lead and keep most of the others in the dust. This screen shot is actually like 400 yrs after entering the MA I think but for the most part it is accurate (aside from city populations).

I'd like to ask for some advice. I am a bit of the way into the Middle Ages, and Adrianople is still a flip risk of 1.54%. Required garrison would be 40, I have 9 right now. There is no way I can get that many more units in there, but I don't want to lose it since that is my SoZ city. I have built a Library, Marketplace, Temple and Cathedral there, the last three all to try to stop a flip. Should I continue sticking any unit in there to decrease the odds of a flip, or empty it so when it does flip, I don't lose a huge portion of my army?
Are you sure you applied the flip risk formula correctly. It seems rather strange that your own city, which should have had it's second culture expansion should share many tiles with the enemy. Or does India really have 20 times your culture, which also seems strange.

It shares lots of tiles with India because India captured my third and sevent cities in a war that started shortly after my turn log ended. If you check the attached image in my spoiler post, the city built by the settler on that hill is now Indian. And I didn't do the flip calculations, I used the calculator in Dianthus' mapstat.

So what is your overall strategy in one sentence?

Cultural / Space Race or Conquest?

If you are an aggressor, WHOM do you want to subiugate first?

I launched many wars against India, looking to consolidate the continent before moving on to a conquest victory. I managed to take several cities during 3 or 4 wars with incredibly heavy losses. In the meantime I lost my tech lead and any military might I had. Now I am lucky enough to have a cavalry army and two knight armies, but India has infantry and will soon have tanks (not to mention a huge tech lead and thousands of gold). :( I'm also the only civ still in the middle ages. Science has gone to zero and I have made peace with all. The plan now is to try to hang on for a space race victory... though in demi I will probably be submitting a loss.

Looks like plenty of others had similar luck with india...

OPEN

start:
worker west spots cow and 2 bg
settler founds Constantinople nw, spots an elephant
research min on writing
worker irrigates cow first for growth in 8 but 10, then roads
Constantinople builds curragh, curragh, warrior, warrior
1st curragh explores north and jumps to the northeast isles later
2nd curragh does the jump to the isle east immediately
warriors explore inland

inital contacts:
Vikings in 3150BC are up masonry and warrior code
Persians in 2950BC are up masonry and warrior code, too, but miss writing. I trade it in for their 2 techs plus all their 10 gold pieces
Dutch in 3900BC are up pottery, but miss masonry and warrior code. I trade masonry + their 35 gold for pottery.
Catharge in 2710BC are up ceremonial burial and the wheel
Indians 2470BC are up the wheel and ceremonial burial
Ottomans 2390BC are up ceremonial burial, but miss alphabet.

time of trades in 2390BC:
alphabet to Ottomans for ceremonial burial + their 36 gold.
pottery + ceremonial burial to Persia for iron working and their 50 gold.
ceremonial burial + 87 gold to Vikings for the wheel
the wheel + 18 gold to Osman for Mysticism

--> we have iron near Constantinople, no horses yet and are up at least a tech on anyone now

last contact:
Russians in 2270BC are down 3 techs

more trades:
2270BC trade mysticism for hoseback riding + 109 gold to Hannibal
1830BC buy Polytheism from the Ottomans for Iron Working + 420 gold and sell Poly to the Catharge for Mathematics + 109 gold and get 410 gold back from the Ottomans for Mathematics

lunatic run at the republic slingshot:
1750BC writing
1300BC code of laws
1100BC philosophy :crazyeye:

many things happen 1100BC:
Ghandi demands 34gold and we pay
we learn Philosophy first, 2 techs missing are currency and construction, only construction is on the market, so no free MA tech, the republic is taken as free tech; trade philosophy + 175gold for construction to the Indians, we revolt and anarchy is 4 turns

last trades:
1025BC trade philosophy to Scandinavia for 335 gold
875BC peace with Russia gives us 116gold + 26gpt + Monarchy for Republic; we learn Literature; buy an Indian worker for 105gold; research turned off
590BC peace with the Ottomans, trade code of laws, literature + 80 gold for currency and we enter the middle ages; trade our free tech engineering for Russias monotheism + 352 gold + 18gpt; research on theology started - hoping the AI will get chivalry

other noteworthy events:
1830BC Caesarea founded at the choke to India
1275 Russians demand mathematics - no - they declare
1050 Ottomans demand writing - no - they declare
975 Catharge demand philosophy - no - they declare
lost 4 curraghs - 2 on suicide runs, 2 to barbs
land barbs were a non event; only found 2 camps in the north, both attacked my spears on defensive terrain, till only 1 warrior remained and were destroyed

future plans:
India will be invaded with 15+ swordsmen, when horses and iron are connected and the SoZ is built. Goal will be to reach Dheli at least and get Pune and all cities on my side of Dhelis n/s axis. India should then be removed in a second run. I will use the many forest near my core to chop swords in 2 turns (2x10spt + 10s from chop).

the world in 590BC:

Theodora was could not believe her good fortune, she had never imagined someone wouldn’t show up for the trip to Alpha Centauri and then Flight Controller Dianthus called her name and told her to board the ship. She was surprised at the size of the stasis pod, the ones she had trained on were much smaller and she didn’t notice the master control panel until she had strapped herself in. “I’m in the commanders pod, that means I’m in charge” she gasped as the pod activated and she began the long slumber.

The pod thumped on the dry plains. As Theodora wiped the sleep from her eyes the realization of what had happened hit like a 20-ton tank rolling over a spearman. She was the leader of a colony on a planet where no one had ever been before. First things first she thought, let’s take an inventory of what we got and where we are.

According to the data banks we were loaded with extra scientific information and most of these people love the oceans, so then we should be on a coastline somewhere. Checking the local terrain scanners confirmed the location and hinted at livestock to the northwest. She opened the pod door and pointed northwest and away went the worker and settler.

With two canoes out searching the coastline for other tribes, Theodora made her first decision. “Since we haven’t seen anyone who might be able to tell us about pottery, let’s round up another settler group and send them to that narrow isthmus to the southwest. That will secure this half of the island for us in case we aren’t alone” she said.

Just when she began to believe her people were alone on this island, came word from the Kon that the Indian peoples were on the western end of the island. They were a very developed people with three cities and knowledge of three technologies that Theodora did not know of. The Indian leader was a man named Gandhi and he refused to part with any of the knowledge. Subsequently, the Tiki made contact the Catherine, leader of the Russian people. The two women were able to come to an agreement allowing Theodora to acquire pottery and warrior code and she quickly traded warrior code to Gandhi for Ceremonial Burial & Masonry and her people were at knowledge parity with the known world.
The news of the founding of Caesarea was tempered by the discovery of the remains of the Kon washed up on the shores. About this time a mighty Warrior, Hercules was attacked by numerous barbarians and survived to become elite among the few troops Theodora possessed.

Theodora had another mixed emotions day (must be the hormones), when the Tiki met another tribe, the Vikings and through diligent negotiations, Theodora was able to acquire Mathematics, Iron Working, Horseback Riding, Mysticism, The Wheel and all the gold in the known world. The bad news was reported from Odin, a warrior on the southeastern peninsula, who witnessed the new canoe, the Minnow being attacked and sank by pirate vessels.

As the days went by, the Tiki would contact the Persians, the Dutch and Carthage. Only the Dutch would contribute any knowledge, Map Making to Byzantium, the others though were happy to empty their treasuries for common technologies.

“That’s highway robbery, Catherine,” said Theodora “but I’ll pay the price you demand for Polytheism, I think I’ll need it” and sure enough with the discovery of Philosophy, the gift of Monarchy allowed Theodora to be crowned the first queen of the Byzantium Kingdom after five years of anarchy.

Another rousing trading session again left all the gold in the known world in Theodora’s treasury, with the knowledge of Construction as a bonus.

The acquisition of a Code of Laws was a cheap purchase, but Theodora hated to be blackmailed by Gandhi for it with no recourse. Her military was just to weak to stand up to the Indians at this point, though the project underway in Adrianople might soon change this.

As the end of her third millennium, she was proud to look out from her room at a kingdom of seven cities. Though dark clouds hung in the western sky, she looked towards the light and hoped for peace.

“But, sire this knowledge of currency is important and must be finished. We have over 1,400 gold pieces in the treasury, why do you cut off research funding when we are so close to completion.” Science Minister Moonsinger asked as the staff meeting opened.

“I’m sorry minister, but those funds will be needed elsewhere. Besides my sources report that the barbarian camp in the swamp north of Trebizond would swarm the city if news of this discovery leaked out. We also need to consider that these funds may soon be needed for defense. Those Indian Warriors milling around south of Adrianople, are bound to cause trouble someday. I have established embassies in Delhi and Moscow in the event hostilities break out, we might find an ally useful.” Theodora answered.

Prophetic it was as a trio of Indian warriors ventured onto Byzantium soil soon after the meeting. A pair of spearmen in Adrianople fought well, though one would perish the city stood when the first battle ended. Nearly half of the treasury would be sent to Moscow to enlist aid in this battle, though no Russian troops would ever be seen.

Finally a trio of Byzantium warriors, led by Hercules finally defeated the final barbarian horseman in the camp and the land was free of the threat. And in 550 BC the knowledge of Currency propelled the nation into the Middle Ages following only the Russians into that age. The bonus knowledge of Monotheism would compliment the Russian gift of Engineering once a deal could be arranged. The war with India was at a standstill, as every Indian Warrior, Archer and Swordsman who attacked the city would die before returning home.

Editors note: I’m still not sure I’ll be able to finish this, but with my SG’s done for a while, I’ll give it another week to see how it goes.

[c3c] 1.22f - Open