This poll is the corrected version of the previous poll that I had deleted. This poll is an informal poll and any results will be used by the Trade Department to plan there decisions incase a demand pops up. I am planning to create a 2nd poll using the top 4 voted options. In otherwords, this is a preliminary poll. To note that this is a Public Poll. This poll will close in 4 days.

Discussion Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95985)

The Choices are:
Gold Demand (Under or equal to 15g)
Gold Demand (15-25g)
Gold Demand (25-50g)
Gold Demand (50g or more)
Map Demand (World Map)
Map Demand (Territory Map)
Resource Demand (Luxuries)
Resource Demand (Stratigic)
Communications Demand
None of the Above
Abstain

voted for 15g or under and world map

Ill vote 15 gold or under. I am not willing to pay our enemies anything significant and am willing to fight.

Now this is a great poll, CG. Well defined, well laid out, public. Great job. :goodjob:

i voted for : Gold Demand (Under or equal to 15g)
Gold Demand (15-25g)

Now that Im done updating all the links to this thread. I shall cast my vote :). I voted for Gold Demand (Under or = to 15g) and World Map :).

I also voted for a gold demand under 15 gold and a WM.

I can't ever remember being shaken down by a rival civ for less than 15g. :confused:

Since I feel we should not bow to threats, I will take the <15 route. However, I like Provolution's idea of assigning each civ a diplomacy status.

EDIT: Cripes, count one less for Abstain, please. I thought I toggled it back off. :(

I see I'm the first, but I think given the difficulty level, most of the time we should be able to refuse demands

With everyone favoring the 15g or less, I sense there is no need for a second poll :). But its to early to know for sure since the poll is still young ;).

what are you doing up so late =/

why have a second poll?

I had to vote abstain, sorry. Caving in to demands is always situational for me. Am I already at war, how much is it, what's the relative power situation, etc.

If someone want something from me I say allways NO! (in Civ3 of course)

Let me just restate my basic case as stated in the discussion thread.

Giving in to demands is a de facto admission of vassalage. Our nation is free and independent and should never give in to demands of any type no matter how small. If the AI is asking for so little it does't want a war anyways. It is just not how it acts. I have never under any circumstances seen an AI declare war over anything less than tech, large sums of gold (over 50g generally), world maps, or resources. Vassalage is should be seen as distasteful and disgusting as it is the first and most important checkpoint down the road to being subjected. Eventually the AI always becomes tired of asking and simply decides to take.

WE MUST VOTE NOT TO GIVE IN EVER!

Let me just restate my basic case as stated in the discussion thread.

Giving in to demands is a de facto admission of vassalage. Our nation is free and independent and should never give in to demands of any type no matter how small. If the AI is asking for so little it does't want a war anyways. It is just not how it acts. I have never under any circumstances seen an AI declare war over anything less than tech, large sums of gold (over 50g generally), world maps, or resources. Vassalage is should be seen as distasteful and disgusting as it is the first and most important checkpoint down the road to being subjected. Eventually the AI always becomes tired of asking and simply decides to take.

WE MUST VOTE NOT TO GIVE IN EVER!

Agreed! NEVER GIVE IN NEVER SURRENDER!

The issue with this poll is that I have two scales:

I really, really want to avoid war with someone.
I am quite happy to go to war.

In case 1, I am willing to give up a bit of gold and anything I find stashed away, but in case 2, I make them an offer they can't refuse (as in NOTHING).
If we have a strong military, all threats should be rejected with a shrug and a condescending remark.
If we build the Great Library though, I am quite happy to give away contacts with other nations, even freely as that benefits us.

Abstain, public poll.

In addition, the response needs to be weighed by strength of foreign nation and should be specific to each country. This poll is too early and provides poor guidance to our leaders.

-- Ravensfire

Abstain, public poll.

In addition, the response needs to be weighed by strength of foreign nation and should be specific to each country. This poll is too early and provides poor guidance to our leaders.

-- Ravensfire
:confused: Whats the prob with a public poll, you would probably post your choice anyways

I had to vote abstain, sorry. Caving in to demands is always situational for me. Am I already at war, how much is it, what's the relative power situation, etc.


Ermm, you could have selected "None of the Above" ;).

:confused: Whats the prob with a public poll, you would probably post your choice anyways

Actually, generally I don't.

CG, w/ regards to your comment, I still would have selected Abstain, and posted my reasons, if this was a private poll. None of the above is not a viable option to me as I don't think this poll will create useful information. Indeed, this poll appears to be by the wrong department (Trade vs. FA), and could create a conflict over the Will of the People. This is a situation where our reaction needs to be based on the percieved relative strength of the other civ and our current situation/plans/location. A blanket statement like this will hinder and disguise the true will.

-- Ravensfire

Ravensfire - This poll is an informal poll. Any information of the results will be shared between the Trade and the FAs. Also, this poll is defenately made by the right department, Trade. Apperently you dont understand that this is only a basic poll if we are dealing if the demand just suddenly pops up. I will however still post the "Dealing with Demands" poll for each nation along with the corrisponding nation assesment poll (When we do bump into another civ).

Ravensfire - This poll is an informal poll. Any information of the results will be shared between the Trade and the FAs. Also, this poll is defenately made by the right department, Trade. Apperently you dont understand that this is only a basic poll if we are dealing if the demand just suddenly pops up. I will however still post the "Dealing with Demands" poll for each nation along with the corrisponding nation assesment poll (When we do bump into another civ).

Ahh, I was under the impression that demands were under the FA minister, not Trade.

However, informational or not (and should be labeled as informational if it is such), this poll does not provide adequate or useful information as it attempts to create a blanket statement over issues that must be more detailed. This is not in the best interests of Japanatica.

This does raise the question though - demands for tribute have historically been under the area of Foreign Affairs. Has this been changed, to where Trade controls them, or are they still in FA?

EDIT: Ah, poll is labeled as informal. My bad - missed that, CG.

-- Ravensfire

Ravensfire - Ugh, youre just ticking me off ATM. Apperently you dont understand that I am trying to be a good deputy and hopefully get back into the ministry department

Ravensfire - Ugh, youre just ticking me off ATM. Apperently you dont understand that I am trying to be a good deputy and hopefully get back into the ministry department

CG - quite honestly, I don't care.

I'm raising concerns that I have about the usefulness of the poll, and which department should be issuing instructions. I have no qualms about the discussion thread that you've started, and think it was, and is, a great idea. I feel this poll, however, is premature and will not adequately determine the inclination of the people.

-- Ravensfire

I think it depends. Obviously we shouldn't give in to someone week and peaceful, but should to someone huge and agressive.

The Minister of Science has only 1 concern; science. Money is for the weaklings and the greedy ones. Enlightened and well-educated people do not believe in money. The science department has no problem with giving away money if that leaves us free from science-disturbing wars. But only as long as the financial situation allows research to continue. If not; save our money for the libraries, universities and research-labs.

Maps are for wall-decoration and for hawks who only see another nation's lands as potentially theirs, instead of joining scientific forces in the ultimate quest for knowledge. Share the maps, they have no scientific value.

Resources: now that is something different. Through the blood, sweat and tears of our scientists they have ben discovered and are being used for the wellbeing of the nation; a secondary goal of scientific research. Other nations should not benefit from our hard work. If they want the fruits of our research, they should pay us (preferably in techs).

Communication-sharing: The science department likes this a lot. The more people we know and the people we know also know eachother, the cheaper well-known techs become and the more valuable researching a monopoly techs becomes. This is the main boost to science; let the world know eachother; Let the scientists of the world cooperate to lift this planet into scientific heaven. Let's talk to all and have all talk to eachother.

I haven't seen anything about tech demands in the above poll...

I had to vote abstain, sorry. Caving in to demands is always situational for me. Am I already at war, how much is it, what's the relative power situation, etc.

Same. Yup.

Same. Yup.

thirded. each time will require a different action.

Territory maps and communications. Also we could give gold, when they don't demand our treasury empty, like in my games.

Since we are researching BW one way is to build early spearmen and reject every demand and we're going for IW so we will probably win wars and expand territory with enemy cities.
Japan is wormongering civ anyway, I bet military advisor would like this :cool: