I don't know about all the rest of you, but when I read eyeofnight's new multi player strategy guide in the War Academy, my first thought was: What level is this guy playing on? - And does he use the 2xproduction and 2xmove?
To quote him:By 3000 BC 6-8+ cities is optimal. 2000 BC 22+ cities is a good goal. 1000 BC 60+ cities is what your shooting for. and However these numbers are the ideal average.
If you play King level, which the ladder is that would give you 20 turns to get 6-8 cities, 40 turns to get 22+ cities and 60 turns to get 60+ cities!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it just me or does this sound pretty high!!! To get that number of cities you not only have to have the space to expand but you also have to be damn lucky not to meet any other Civ and to get quite a few settlers and cities from the huts - Which BTW we don't use in the ladder!!!!!

The rest of his stuff sounds ok - if a bit complex.

!sniper!

BTW this is my 300th posting. !beer!

Don't trust EyesofNight, remember he got caught cheating in a gameleague game.

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Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

Well, it must be close to the Armageddon. Lord, you know that I won’t fly by that lesson you taught me, to pull out my Wesson you brought me, and i’m not stressin’ it softly. Get ‘em up off me, ‘cause all we wanted harmony, been bombin’ ‘em. Yell up outta my ghetto, “I won’t settle,” get on my level.

i must agree :

What we have here is a typical example of one who has seen the inside of a crackpipe 500 times to many.
And even worse try too share some of that loco ideas with us.
My advice : IGNORE (or send him away on a spaceship)

He is one of the most experienced players around.His ideas are sound.Although his mind may not behttp://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

Aggression works very well in small map duels.Just try a 2x2 game on king against 1 ai.Explore the map aggressively and build mostly settlers.Incremental rushbuy as much as possible.100+ cities by 1ad is very doable.
\


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited February 17, 2001).]

Smash I am no longer bound by just that one setting. I can do 1x1x now too (I can't get that kind of cities though, 26 cities and 1 or 2 wonders by 500BC or earlier is ideal). And I don't incremental rushbuy. If you do that you aren't going to get that kind of cities. Shadowdale the title of that strategy is BEGINNERS guide to duels. The expectations for myself are actually higher.

So what your saying is that those number where for a 2x2xgame??
And on what level?? I know that it can't be very high!! I could easily imagine having that many cities in a 2x2xgame on chieftain-prince, but not king+!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/snipersmilie.gif

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Veni Vidi Vici.

Coolbook: Cunobelin Of Hippo, Håkan Eriksson, vladmir_illych_lenin, stellar converter, Stormerne.

It was 2x2x and on a small map, 40X50 with 1 opponent and no AI. You can actually launch a spaceship at 1AD with 100+ cities on that setting.

I know it sounds a little far fetched but it really isn't that hard to do.Try it.You'll probably run out of room.
It is a tad on the tediuos side.Any civ game with lots of cities will be.

There are no barbs(villages only).No ai threat to speak of.3 content citizens for quite awhile.All this equals-settlers,settlers,settlers and more settlers.

If you start with 2 settlers then 150 cities(if room) should be routine.

You don't have to "true" ics either.2 move settlers get to sites fast.

Man !!!!! What in the world!! 50+ cities..

What am i doing wrong? I can get 50+ cities but not by 1 AD, maybe by lke 1000AD that's insane.

I never really tried but I've also never came close!

I always play aginst AI 1X production and all, but even with 2x it sounds impossible.

I get the whole rapid expansion thing, I do it all the time. I just never make it work that well!

HELP would be nice if it's avialible.

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

Well actually it's 120+ cities by 1AD. I usually have 50 by 1000BC. And that's only on 2x2x.

THat 's NOT possible i just played a game on king where i wasn't disturbed until 500AD and i only got 17 cities, I ran out of room but it took me till 1AD!!!!!!!

Do you want to see one of my saves? I'll prove it to you. Try having 75 cities and 14 wonders in your capital by 10000BC. Also try launching a spaceship by 1AD with 120+ cities. That's on King, 2x2x, Small map (40X50) with only 1 AI. And to make it a bit tougher you can only build wonders in your capital. If you want to see one of my games like that just ICQ me.

I can vouch for him. It's definetly possible.

Now if this a method that beginners would want to use, that is a different story.

Why would anyone NOT want to use it? It's unbeatable on every single setting there is.

because it's so booooooooooooring. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/cwm33.gif

How so? You don't even know how to do it so how would you know?

I know I'm just a beginner, but it does sound insane to have so many cities by that time. You guys are going to have to explain this, 'cause I don't know how you do it.

[This message has been edited by skyskipper (edited February 26, 2001).]

Well I must say that playing 2x2xgame on a large/medium map with no AI is rather boring - I tried and I had 86 cities in 600 BC and all the wonders that I had the tech to build - and it was boring!!!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/snipersmilie.gif

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Veni Vidi Vici.

Coolbook: Cunobelin Of Hippo, Håkan Eriksson, vladmir_illych_lenin, Stormerne, PaleHorse76.

Well, if anyone wants my two cents...


I think that those setting are boring.

Those settings are for beginers.

EyesOfNight, come back and tell everyone how many cities you can build with 1x settings, raging hordes and at least 4 AI's with huts on Deity.

Yawn...

MrLeN

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Where there is money, there are liars!

MrLeN has spoken !!!!


LOL

(that will cost you 50 banana bucks Mrlen)

ps i always close my eyes at night and am therefore blind, maybe that's the same as eyes sees it all the time ?!!

DoH! *Just SlApS Forehead*!

I only have 45, can give you the other five later? I'm good for it http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

MrLeN

P.S. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/rotflmao.gif

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Where there is money, there are liars!

[This message has been edited by MrLeN (edited February 27, 2001).]

The more players you have in a game the more useless having a ton of cities becomes.

The only real way to win with a lot of players is to outproduce them in science, or to launch a attack and take out thier key cities.

I don't play Deity Len, Deity is an equalizer and is only used by those who need to bring everyone else down to their level. If you want to see what I can do on 1x1x you need only message me.

EyesOfNight, You don't play Deity? Deity is an equa....what? How is only used by those who need to bring everyone else down to their level?

What are you on about? Bringing people down and equalizing or something?

*Shrug*?http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/crazyeyes.gif

MrLeN

http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/avatar.gif

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Where there is money, there are liars!

It brings everyone down to the same level. You can only do so much on deity because of the strict rules placed on it by happiness and such sort. The only real competition that occurs between human opponents is for happy wonders and whoever wins that race almost definitely wins the game. The challenge doesn't lie in the human opponent, the challenge is the settings. Might as well play the AI. On King however you don't necessarily have to have happy wonders in order to win. That allows for other strategies and options.

Eyes why don't u try playing without wonders on deity maybe, just maybe you can play me one time.

(when you have practised enough that is)


http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif

EyesOfNight, um... excuse me?

WHAT?

HUUUUUH???...

You can only do so much on deity because of the strict rules placed on it by happiness and such sort. The only real competition that occurs between human opponents is for happy wonders and whoever wins that race almost definitely wins the game. The challenge doesn't lie in the human opponent, the challenge is the settings. Might as well play the AI. On King however you don't necessarily have to have happy wonders in order to win.

This is the BIGGEST most discraceful load of rubbish I have ever heard from any civ player on any forum in the entire WORLD!!!

You are one of those expansionists, aren't you? You don't know how to run your civ without the Gardens, do you?

Say it.

SAY IT!!!

"I am pathetic MrLeN"! http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/clown.gif

"I am clueless MrLeN"! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/confused.gif" border=0>

I don't know how you could possibly say that! Whoever gets the Gardens has won? That is RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH!!!

MrLeN

PAH!


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Where there is money, there are liars!

[This message has been edited by MrLeN (edited February 28, 2001).]

I'd have to agree with MrLeN. Although I prefer the expansionist approach, I don't rely on it all the time.

By the way, you are full of a lot of crazy ideas.

<font color="blue"><font face="papyrus">You don't need "happy" wonders to win on Deity or any other level. You just have to know how to control your empire. What would benefit you the most is Statue of Liberty. Peace-Time: Use Democracy
War-Time: Use Fundamentalism

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Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

Well, it must be close to the Armageddon. Lord, you know that I won’t fly by that lesson you taught me, to pull out my Wesson you brought me, and i’m not stressin’ it softly. Get ‘em up off me, ‘cause all we wanted harmony, been bombin’ ‘em. Yell up outta my ghetto, “I won’t settle,” get on my level.

Anyone that tries to twist things around to make out that deity is actually too easy, or below them (to hide the fact that they are not good at it) is not worth playing against.

MrLeN

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Where there is money, there are liars!

I/m With Mr. Len

Though I use only villages

Its irratating to have barbarians pop up in the middle of you civ when your borders are secure.

Playing on diety or with or without barbarians just requires different stratigies. The true military genius could win at all of them, not just when he sets the optimal conditions for his style of play i.e. eye of night. To refuse to even play on the other settings shows how limited you are. And if you want to limits yourself so much, why play a vastlly complicated game like civ, go back to rushing on SC where the only thing that matters is how fast you make your first 4 clicks.

Eyes, tho it pains me to do so, I have to somewhat agree with you on one of your points, happy wonders unbalance the game when playing diety.

However..someone has proposed a game in which you play without the wonders and on diety taking this particular flaw from the game. I think that this would be a true test of your abilities and would love a copy of your saved game. I think it would differ greatly from your 150+ cities by 1AD playing on King.



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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

I'm not going to let you guys goad me into playing a deity game. I play every single setting there is except deity, that includes 1x1x and 2x1x. That's more versatile than most of you could ever hope to be. I am undisputedly the best player at 2x2x and arguably the best player at 2x1x and 1x1x. I really see no reason why I need or should play Deity.

Originally posted by EyesOfNight:
I'm not going to let you goad me into playing deity. I play all settings except deity. I play 1x1x, 2x2x, 2x1x, no barbarians or raging hordes, everything except deity. I'm more varied than most of you could ever hope to be. I am undisputedly the greatest player on 2x2x and on 1x1x and 2x1x I'm arguably the best. I'm quite satisfied with everything and I so reason to play deity nor will I ever.

I expected as much.



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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

And I'm supposed to care because?

Well you gotta love that rational! I am the best at this game un-disputedly except I don't play the hardest level cuz I can't humiliate others while playing it.

Eyes is the un-disputed ruler of the kiddy levels, lets all give him a big round of applause!http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/lol.gif

The only difference between King and Deity is that on Deity your cities start getting mad at size 1 once you get more than 6 cities. I fail to see how that is somehow more of a challenge than King. The only challenge I see in Deity is from the settings, not from the opponent. All it does is slow down science and expansion to the point where you feel like you're in slow motion. It's an equalizer. There's only so much you can do on it and you're limited in your options.

Eyes i think what drake said is true and you scared that if you play a skilled player at deity level you'll be beat, Ego is mans worst enemy.

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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT face="copperplate gothic light">Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

Well, it must be close to the Armageddon. Lord, you know that I won’t fly by that lesson you taught me, to pull out my Wesson you brought me, and i’m not stressin’ it softly. Get ‘em up off me, ‘cause all we wanted harmony, been bombin’ ‘em. Yell up outta my ghetto, “I won’t settle,” get on my level.</FONT c></FONT f>

Refer to my last post. I will not be goaded into playing Deity. I couldn't care less what some beginners on a dead civ site think.

15 years ago..........
Scene from a minor league baseball team's dugout where ESPN is interviewing Mark McGuire:

ESPN: So Mark, now that you've bashed the pitchers of the minor league into the ground, I guess you're ready to step up to the Majors huh?

Mark: No, I'm all set here....I don't like to challenge myself and am only comfortable with things I know I can win at.

ESPN: But you've had so many offers MArk, how can you turn them down?

Mark: Simple. I don't like to expand my horizons. Besides, I've heard pro games average an extra half hour or so....*laughing* and you all know how impatient I am.....

ESPN: Um....ok Mark......uh....have fun in the minors.....

Mark: Thanks. I won't be goaded into playing with the other pros. I heard that you might actually have to challenge yourself up there...and boy...I sure wouldn't want to do that!

ESPN guy rolls his eyes.

Mark: Oh, like I really care what your lousy channel thinks.......*pouts*I'm going to go home and take my bat home so no one else can use it!

As Mark walks away, the end of the bat falls off and tennis balls fall out........He quickly begins scrambling around picking them up....he yells at the staring ESPN guys "Hey I may be a cheat, but I'm still the best in the minor leagues!!! So there!"

<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/clown.gif" border=0>

[This message has been edited by drake (edited March 28, 2001).]

Feeling a little defensive are we? Guess it is your ego at stake. Your insults are nothing more than a form of escapism that is best suited for a 10-year-old (no offense to any 10-year-old Fanatics that display a higher level of maturity than our good friend Eyes here).

Fine..you don't play deity, but stop with the excuses. Just simply say no and get over yourself.

I am undisputedly the greatest player on 2x2x and on 1x1x and 2x1x I'm arguably the best. I'm quite satisfied with everything and I so reason to play deity nor will I ever.

Not playing deity is basis enough to dispute your greatness on these settings. Your argument against diety has some substance, I will, and have, given you that much, but I can make as strong an argument against any other level for that matter.

My hope for you Eyes is in thinking that you are some confused adolescent that feels the need to hide behind some type of alter ego. I really do hope that someone beats you at your own game someday. Not out of bitterness, or resentment, but out of sympathy for who you are. Hopefully the fall won't be so bad that you can't find it within yourself to get back up.

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

What, you didnt find that funny? I thought it was very humorous! I edited it cuz I had to put in the part about the corked bat...

C'mon now, stop taking yourself so serious...this is a silly computer game we're talking about here! Isn't it?!

That's right, and you have absolutely no idea who you're talking to. You guys still haven't caught on yet. Maybe one day I'll tell you.

Here ... I thought this thread was supposed to be about MP "Strategies"... !!

Dog

Hey eyes maybe people keep saying it to you...

...cause its ture!
Just a thought

And you haven't taken me on yet.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/flamethrower.gif

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Words of wisdom from the renaissance man x.

Ok, I'll make you a deal Iccky. Start a game with the AI in multiplayer mode on 2x2x. play King, Villages only, only 1 AI. You may not attack the AI at all throughout the entire game. No bribing cities and stuff either. Wonders my only be built in your capital and your capital only. The map must be small, 40X50. You may customize if you like using the custom map menu. By 1AD you must have 120-140 cities and be ready to launch a spaceship. If you can do that then I'll consider you worthy to play. This is a very very simple challenge, so if you can't even do this don't even waste my time asking me to play.

I must have hit the nail on the head so to speak. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/lol.gif

Your a classic guy yourself there Eyes. I highly doubt that your dismissal of what I said is in any way original in itself. With that said, what exactly does it mean if I am not the first person to have crossed paths with you in the forums? I think the answer is obvious.

The inherent value of my words are still intact whether they are orginal or not. I marked you as a person with a problem and I apologise for doing as much. You are beautiful with no reason to change.

Cimfindriel Delglorfin

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<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/ninja1.gif" border=0>"Engarde you silly fool!
You are no match for my so fine
rapier!"

He who sacrifices his conscience to ambition burns a picture to obtain the ashes.
- Chinese Proverb

Iccky, either through ICQ or to Dulaak@hotmail.com

"With that said, what exactly does it mean if I am not the first person to have crossed paths with you in the forums? I think the answer is obvious."

Please, go into details. I really would like to hear this obvious answer straight from the mouth of one so wise as yourself.

"I marked you as a person with a problem and I apologise for doing as much. You are beautiful with no reason to change."

hahhaaha! Not bad, I doubt you'll be as challenging as cavebear though. I guess we'll see.

I've found it quite hilarious that eyes you talk so much trash but when a skilled deity player confronts you and challenges you, you run away with your keyboard inbetween your legs. Why is that? Let see hmmm you can't win w/o cheating? Or editing the rules to your gameplay. Maybe that's it yes hmmmm, possibly

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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT face="copperplate gothic light">Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

Well, it must be close to the Armageddon. Lord, you know that I won’t fly by that lesson you taught me, to pull out my Wesson you brought me, and i’m not stressin’ it softly. Get ‘em up off me, ‘cause all we wanted harmony, been bombin’ ‘em. Yell up outta my ghetto, “I won’t settle,” get on my level.</FONT c></FONT f>

Ok, I appologize a bit for the last post I was slightlly intoxicated when I wrote it it usually takes a lot more for me to whip out my flamethrower. I do not doubt that you are probably a better player then me eye and only think that one should only claim to be the greatest military genius if you can do it anywhere under any conditions.

That said I'll take your little challenge. Expect a saved game from me showing my sucess in maybe a week or so, where should I send it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/beerchug.gif

Don't drink and post-

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Words of wisdom from the renaissance man x.

Originally posted by EyesOfNight:
hahhaaha! Not bad, I doubt you'll be as challenging as cavebear though. I guess we'll see.

Eyes, can you "see" the hypocrisy? "Challenging" is a very interesting word seeing that this whole conversation sprung from a challenge that was made to you. You don't seem to be the challenging type. Stick to what your best at..oh, never mind, you already do.

Well, I tried knowing where it would lead. "What can you do when you live in a shoe." http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif



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<IMG SRC="http://www.gifmix.com/giffar/fantasy/fantasy_gifmix1-235.gif" border=0><FONT size="2"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="brown">Cimfindriel</FONT c></FONT f></FONT s>

Eyes, can I give you a hug buddy? You sound like you need one http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

In the saterday diplogame diety raging hordes 1x 1x. I have 20 cities and 8 wonders at 100 bc. I didn't trade a single tech and i am already working on engineering. i built sun tu, gl, maggellans, lighthouse, pyramids, gardens and marco polo. I am also about to finish another 2 wonders. Not my best game but certainly a good one, its not easy playing against 6 allied players. The point on diety is not to have a ton of cities, but to have a lot of extremely powerful cities (produce 300+ gold a turn/city by 600 ad) is the goal. This way you can fund massive expansion/war

Nice hearing from you Markusf, i find your strat to work pretty good http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

lol sun tu, if your using it you might consider using all those caravans to just crank out wonders. It keeps the other players weak, and delays the super growth by about 500 years. but big deal you still fly through the tech tree and you can wage a nice war on the side.

How about a game on 2x2x cim? Or how about 2x1x? You do play those don't you? I of course CHALLENGE you to those settings. You will of course accept right? You of course "see" the hypocrisy don't you? I play every single setting except Deity. I think everyone should have 1 setting they don't like to play. I highly doubt you'll find anyone that plays as many settings as I do.

"Stick to what your best at..oh, never mind, you already do."

Well I guess if you put it that way I'm good at every single setting except Deity. I think that's a compliment.

By the way suntzu, I just love the way you use your moderator powers to delete my responses to you. Especially considering the fact that yours contained profanity while mine contained no offensive words at all. How did you put it? "take your d i c k out of kaak's a s s and something something something you focking fagot." Truly the way a moderator should act.

Just a little note, if you try to edit this one in any way I'm keeping a copy of this post for future reference.


Come on sun tzu, just delete it one more time. Keep it up.

Yes i know i'm the role model for all of the moderators here.

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Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff and forum moderator

<IMG SRC="http://www.homestead.com/house_of_lux/files/suntzu1.gif" border=0>

eyes i would to see you play me a deity game 1x1 raging hordes 5als added large map.

Even though I've turned everyone down and told everyone that I will not play Deity, I'm going to accept your challenge because you asked so nicely. http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

eyes using a smiley? wait that must be an imposter! he hates smilies (and puppies and old ladies and butterflies too)
<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>
right eyes?



[This message has been edited by drake (edited April 06, 2001).]

HIER isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed and I feared that he would not be able to catch my sarcasm without some sort of visual aid.