I need a new city graphic for my next mod. The mod will cover the Illiad through the Odyssey and the Aeneid. The home thread for the new mod is here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2116984)

I need a city graphic (not city screen) for Troy. It needs thick, strong walls.
I am attaching a graphic now.

Thanks!

are people only going to look at this thread?! reply!

It's only been 15 minutes


Secondly, I could've sworn I saw somebody reply to this thread... dunno :confused:

Dear me, are you getting a little angry here :mischief:
Btw, if you want Troy to be the only city of trojans, I am sure you can give it a larger than normal size. But it would mean that an enemy unit may actually appear inside the city when standing next to it. :D

Best way to solve that problem would be to make extra wall units using Kinboat's walls... it'll provide an extra ring of defense as well.

except one would have to modify those wall-units. They are a little, um, medieval :) BUt who knows, a little tinkering an dwe'd have a greek/trojan walled city

I have always been confused on this...Was Troy a port? Or how close was it to the coast?

On the other hand we could use the larger than normal troy city graphix and surround it with a transparent flc called trojan city wall. Give it a defense of 10, or 12 and a non lethal defensive bombardment. That outta keep those invading ruffians out. :crazyeye:

good ideas. no im not angry but it annoys me when 20+ people view your threads and you end up with 1 or less replies. would any of you like to make the city graphic?

bombshoo, I hate your avatar.


Secondly, I don't think you'll need any invisible set of walls. Wouldn't just knocking off the towers suffice?

bombshoo, I hate your avatar.


Secondly, I don't think you'll need any invisible set of walls. Wouldn't just knocking off the towers suffice?

I swear his avatar looks like an evil bunny I saw in some flick about a kid with mpd/physosis.

And yes, it would suffice but you are talking to a guy who makes lazy look like ace ventura on a caffeine overdose.

Is that Troy ??? Where is its port then ?

The City of Troy is not a port city

rather, it is a major city on the coastal plain, and had firm control over other cities that, were ports.

I swear his avatar looks like an evil bunny I saw in some flick about a kid with mpd/physosis.

And yes, it would suffice but you are talking to a guy who makes lazy look like ace ventura on a caffeine overdose.

It IS the evil bunny from Donnie Darko.

And I'm watching Ace Ventura right this second ironically.


Xen: So then Troy shouldn't be just one city then..?

Nope, the Trojans controlled a fairlly large region, larger then any one Mycenaean state in greece proper, witht he exception of Mycenae proper, and Crete.

Yout hen have to account the nations ruled in proxy by Troy, notbaley nations like Dardania, which was ruled By Aeneas, closelly related to the Royal house of Troy

then thier are the firm allies, a good deal of which should just be lopped under Troy Proper, or that of its better (indipendent allies)...

The Trojan war was just that; a war, not a mere seige of a city, thier were fights out int he feild, and a tleast once the Trojans turned the tide of the battlkes, by makign the greeks go on the defensive...

Interesting- afaik nobody can safely say if Troy even ever existed ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy
http://www.geocities.com/tmartiac/thalassa/iamgreece_a7_web.jpg

True; Troy is a legendry city. Like Atlantis, but more of a city-state than an island-state.

Interesting- afaik nobody can safely say if Troy even ever existed ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy
http://www.geocities.com/tmartiac/thalassa/iamgreece_a7_web.jpg


Troy wasnt really known as troy in the ancient world; it way addressed as Illium, and not only do we have the firm site for Illium, but we have documents from an egyptian report of allied chartio contingent servign with the Hitties at Kadesh, to the eventual Roman foundation of a colony on the site; not only that, but the city has had over 9 incarnations, many fo them in the bronze age, and several fo those bronze age levals show that the city had been sacked; which co-incides nicelly that there were in fact two" trojan wars", one led by heracles that resluted int he death of most of the royal familly, and the looting fo the city, and then the classic war of troy.

theres plenty of evidence to prove troy existed :p

True; Troy is a legendry city. Like Atlantis, but more of a city-state than an island-state.

Not anywhere close to Atlantis because Troy, although it wasn't called that at the time, actually existed. There's no real room for speculation anymore on whether the state that inspired Homer existed. Atlantis has much, much more room for speculation.

alsom, the map you posted is horrible; it mixes up bronze age, irong age, classical, hellenistic, and roman era cities as if they all existed at one time

Alsom? Roman? Did I miss anything? There is not a single Roman city on that map that hadn't been there in Hellenic times!

Besides- the map is utterly without importance- the suspected site of mythical Troy is the only thing that one should take into consideration. As can be seen (and read in the Iliad) the location of mythical city is very different than the excavation nowadays having been named "Troy". My suspicion is that (since all great powers' capitals of the time had access to Waterways -already to erect stone structures) the capital city of Troy should have had a port. Homer even describes a trojan mechanism by which warships were pulled up a ramp into an inner port so as to protect them from naval assault (of course the Iliad was written at least 300 years after the myth allegedly took place- while no scripture was ever found in any of the combatants' remaining cities suggesting war with any such named power).

Aslom? Now I have no idear' whats going on anymore!!! :crazyeye:

Aslom? Now I have no idead whats going on anymore!!! :crazyeye:
Alsom- not 'Aslom'... ;)

Alsom- not 'Aslom'... ;)

Thats whatz I gots for my publik educations :p

Alsom? Roman? Did I miss anything? There is not a single Roman city on that map that hadn't been there in Hellenic times!

Besides- the map is utterly without importance- the suspected site of mythical Troy is the only thing that one should take into consideration. As can be seen (and read in the Iliad) the location of mythical city is very different than the excavation nowadays having been named "Troy". My suspicion is that (since all great powers' capitals of the time had access to Waterways -already to erect stone structures) the capital city of Troy should have had a port. Homer even describes a trojan mechanism by which warships were pulled up a ramp into an inner port so as to protect them from naval assault (of course the Iliad was written at least 300 years after the myth allegedly took place- while no scripture was ever found in any of the combatants' remaining cities suggesting war with any such named power).

A)Neither Mycenae or "Sparta" (replaced the name of the region of lacedaemon with the name of the most prominant city in the greek dark ages/classical age) did not have direct access to a port.

B)the site of Troy is located according to where Homer puts it;

a)by the dardenelles, controllign access to the Black sea
b)inside a coastal plain BY the sea, but the city itself not actually on the sea (besides, no where int he illiad is anythign entioned about naval battles)
c)a site where the river meander (IIRC, that was the name) paees in between the camp of the collective greek host, ands the city of troy, creating the centerpeice battle feild of the conflict
d)the site of Illium, the name homer used for the city, and the surrounding area, and where the Illad actually gets its name from

A) Since you mention that Mycenae has no port or water way connection: Very true, archeologists haven't got a clue how on earth it was built and consider it an architectonic miracle !!! - and the fact it doesn't have a port marked the downfall of this Kingdom, unable to trade and keep up with city states the likes of Athenae. And not even Great Rome or Athens had their own ports- Pireos, for instance was a separate town that Athens would eventualy grow towards and enclose within its city defences by a purpose built wall). Been there, seen it, bought the t-shirt.

B) Blind Homer lived between 300 to 400 years after the city excavation site described as Troy VI - VII was destroyed. "Even if there was a Bronze Age city on the site now called Troy, and even if that city was destroyed by fire and/or war at about the same time as the time postulated for the Trojan War, there is still no evidence that any of the events described by Homer ever took place. In particular, the name Troy does not appear in any of the Greek written records (admittedly not extensive) from the many Mycenean or Bronze Age sites excavated over the past century. If there was a major city called Troy anywhere in the Aegean area, no-one at Knossos or Mycenae or Pylos mentioned it."

a) Right- so if that city is within spitting range from the sea, what would have stopped the Trojans from building a port? One can even see the sea from the top of mount Hissarlik!
b) I never spoke of ANY naval battle, just of the technique the Trojans used to anchor their warships. :confused: If you mean that if Troy would have had a port, thus a large fleet able to withstand a fleet of (allegedly) 1000 vessels, thus a sea battle would have taken place which the greek historians would have boasted about (as Greeks love to exagerate, *cough* a little, as we all know), and we would have thus had to read about it in Homer's Poems, and because they don't this means that Troy didn't have a port- then I must say these are too many assumptions in one go. I could equally assume that such an unbelievably vast fleet as the Greeks are said to have fielded would have caused the Trojan fleet to flee- but I'm not since there is no evidence about any of it.
c) There is btw a site in relative proximity to the present excavation site of Troy that could have featured an "inner water basin" about 3 thousand years ago- indications of a young state's trading site? However...
d) ...It doesn't surprise me that the place was named Ilium after (!) Homer wrote about it- the question should be what it was called before Homer did so. (Mentioning Homer naming the site- in Greek it would be Ilion: Ilium is as said the post-Roman Latin denomination)

"It is important to note that no text or artefact has ever been found which clearly identifies the bronze age site as that of Troy, or indeed confirms that any such place as Troy ever existed. Some archaeologists and historians maintain that none of the events in Homer are historical. Others accept that there may be a foundation of historical events in the Homeric stories, but say that in the absence of independent evidence it is not possible to separate fact from myth in the stories.
In recent years scholars have suggested that the Homeric stories represented a synthesis of many old Greek stories of various Bronze Age sieges and expeditions, fused together in the Greek memory during the "dark ages" which followed the fall of the Mycenean civilisation. In this view, no historical city of Troy existed anywhere: the name derives from a people called the Troies, who probably lived in central Greece. The identification of the hill at Hissarlik as Troy is, in this view, a late development, following the Greek colonisation of Asia Minor in the 8th century BCE."

You see, the point I am trying to get at is that nobody knows enough about Troy to establish if mythical Troy as such ever even existed, more less what the city would have looked like be it myth or real...

Real or not, I am certain we can all agree that this mod meeds to get made :)

Real or not, I am certain we can all agree that this mod meeds to get made :)
Certainly :) and Mycenae too

what/who the hell is alsom?

great historical information that is very interesting and important but dont forget that i am still in need of a(some) city graphic(s). i like/need your info but i also NEED a city graphic. i am not trying to be rude but i must push this issue. im sorry and im not at the same time. please understand..... i need the graphic.

Do you haev anymore Troy-like pictures? I think the current pic could make an excellent Trojan capital. It is large, beefy and walled. What else could we need?

I wonder if any of you are aware that he mentioned that he was basing his scenario on mythology (such as Homer's "Illiad"). :crazyeye:

There seriously ought to be more city-styles produced here. I'd like to see a nice "Troy" city graphic as well. ;)

im still left with the (sorry to be rude and pushy but...) need for a city graphic. I will get some more pictures for you all. PLEASE MAKE ONE OR GIVE ME A TUTORIAL ON HOW TO! i hate being rude but i want this mod really bad because i love reading mythology! i cant wait for a decent mythology game!


Edit: I now have leaderheads....... :D YAY! :D .......all i need now are units and city graphics........ :mischief: hint hint :mischief:

:lol: If anything has to do with Ancient Rome or Greece, it draws in Xen like a moth to the flame...just like anything Mesoamerican does with me ironically.

Here are some city images:

Some wall, tower, and gate models:

:lol: If anything has to do with Ancient Rome or Greece, it draws in Xen like a moth to the flame...just like anything Mesoamerican does with me ironically.
haha. good, good! Xen, would you like to be a part of this mod?

How about this :P

Only smaller :mischief:

Chances are, Troy is very close to the city Troas.

Ok. First attempt at city graphix here. :blush: Tell me what you think?

Second attempt. Removed outer walls. Still looks kinda cheesy since its way too croweded. Any and all comments will be appreciated.

Yeah... it's not terribly impressive. IMHO, I think you should put some streets in there... that might help the problem.

Finally a screen shot. Looks more like a persian rug than troy. Back to the drawing board.

Blob some of the buildings together... widen the streets.

Actually I just thought of something thats crazy, but might prove useful for this kind of myth mod. Why have troy as 1 city, why not 9?

Cities need to seperated by atleast 1 square, even same-civ cities. So we have 4 cities called north, south, east, west walls of troy, and between these 4 cities, 4 immovable artillery units that look like continuations of the wall cities. Finally the center is another artillery unit with tower like structures to create the illusion of a 9 sqare cirty.

:crazyeye: Bet no ones thought of that one before. Wohooo LSD!!!

This way Troys' walls can fall, but the main city can remain intact. Since the artillery can't be moved, better remove the disband option or the AI may be tempted to destroy a wall rather than fortify it.

Could someone perhaps direct me to the tutorial on how to make single direction, static .flcs so I amy test this new multi-tile city theory out?

Here's my attempt. I separated the main city of Troy from the housing to create the metropolis. The town and city were created from sections of housing and wall.

Here's my attempt. I separated the main city of Troy from the housing to create the metropolis. The town and city were created from sections of housing and wall.

Looking good! Mine looks like a lego flood, but this is very good indeed.

Ok this is what I meant by a city on 9 squares. They are essentially 4 cities here, but immagine them being called the North/South/East/West walls of Troy.

Now the settlers are also hoing to appear as city blocks but are artillery units, immovable, can't fortify, disband. This makes Troy appear like a 9 square city rather than 1. In the center square will be the flag unit, the beautiful Helen of Troy so even if you capture the 4 squares making the walls of troy, the other 5 remaining will have enough bombardment to kill and reclaim atleast one city wall per turn. The only way to win would be to rush the whole military might down Troy's throat !!

Any comment on this.

Here's the city file (no transparancy). It would allow the Trojans to have multiple cities of different sizes:

NICE! these are amazing!

@ocedius
I love the idea of N/S/E/W Walls thing but how about one city with 8 immmobile artillery.

like this:

***
*C*
***

with *= wall/artillery and c=city.

artillery should probably be immobile, no disband, no bombard range, high bombard strength, ROF= 1, high defense, no attack, AI strategy "Artillery"

that way the walls "defend" but dont attack (never seen an animated wall) and the AI civ will have to use them.

Here's my attempt. I separated the main city of Troy from the housing to create the metropolis. The town and city were created from sections of housing and wall.

I LOVE THEM!!!! especially the metropolis which will probably become the final city graphic for troy! MANY MANY MANY THANKS!!!!

NICE! these are amazing!

@ocedius
I love the idea of N/S/E/W Walls thing but how about one city with 8 immmobile artillery.

like this:

***
*C*
***

with *= wall/artillery and c=city.

artillery should probably be immobile, no disband, no bombard range, high bombard strength, ROF= 1, high defense, no attack, AI strategy "Artillery"

that way the walls "defend" but dont attack (never seen an animated wall) and the AI civ will have to use them.

I LOVE THEM!!!! especially the metropolis which will probably become the final city graphic for troy! MANY MANY MANY THANKS!!!!

That makes perfect sense. a City surrounded by 8 artillery units making the city's walls. Since this scenario could be 'capture the flag/princess' for Helen of Troy, the AI would attempt to capture and use the artillery to bombard Troy and capture the princess/flag unit.

:king:

@ocedius
i am REALLY liking your ideas! you will definately be in credits!

@EVERYONE!

see here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2128509#post2128509) for details on the current progress of this mod!

@ocedius
i am REALLY liking your ideas! you will definately be in credits!

@EVERYONE!

see here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2128509#post2128509) for details on the current progress of this mod!

Due to my extremly humble nature, I am embaressed :blush:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Due to my extremly humble nature, I am embaressed :blush:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
haha! check out the new up-to-date details list found on the main thread here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2128682#post2128682)

I tried to make the units but everytime the palette or some-other-^$@*%# got @^@#(*ed.

So here is a single unit for the city of Troy. I will try again tomorrow to make the proper 8/9 units for Troy.

And here's a screen shot:

i see now. i was a little confused earlier. a comment:
the walls dont have to be connected (or seem to be connected) to the city. since I have pretty much decided to use Chukchi Husky's metropolis version of Troy, try to work around that. the corner units should be towers and the in-between units should be wall-looking things. :lol: love my technical terms :lol: If possible try to make the walls look connected. i know you are trying. THANK YOU AND GOOD LUCK!

ps- the way i make/edit units in my EXTREMELY primitive fashion is:
1) Open Flicster and export a blank flc story board with whatever settings you want
2) Open Irfanview and save the new pcx file as a bmp file
3) Open Paint and edit it to your heart's content
4) Reopen the new bmp in Irfanview and save as a pcx file again (rewriting the old one)
5) Open Flicster to test your animations
6) Export as Flc
7) Test in-game

What a coincedence! I use the same technique to edit the units as you do. And thanx. Right now I am doing Lord Kroak. I'll get to Troy by tomorrow I hope.

Couple o' comments.
Troy is not now a port but there seems to be a general agreement these days that back in the bronze age it was on a bay. It's bay simply silted up the same way that the bay at Miletus did. Map and details.....
http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2003/troy030303.html

Regarding historicity of Troy, I don't see how it can be said that the traditional site of Troy (Hisarlik) is proven to be that city. There is an awful lot of circumstantial evidence though that points in that direction. To dismiss it as all myth is off the mark. The Hittite archives refer often to 'Taruisa' and 'Wilusa' and those are generally conceded to be in NW Anatolia (why there was ever any debate there is beyond me). Homer refers to 'Troy' and 'Ilios' (archaic form: Wilios). It is not clear from Homer or Hittites though which was city and which was the country or if the were just interchangeable.
Hittite records also refer to a king of Wilusa named Alekshandush who had a treaty with Hittite king Muwatallis. Greek legend calls Paris, 'Alexandros' and an obscure legend has him meeting a king 'Motylos' when first arriving in Anatolia after abducting Helen. Alexandros,Wilios,Motylos and Alekshandush,Wilusa,Muwatallis... too many coincidences, I think, between legend and archives for this stuff to be simple fabrication.

Well, if you are still awake, how is this mod fixed for maps and cities? Are you using the Eratosthenes map or the 'Hellas' map of Greece and W. Anatolia. I had worked on a version of the Hellas map for a while making minor corrections and putting in cities/civs for the Trojan war period. Civs included "Akhaia" (Mycenae/Sparta lumped with other 'kingdoms' that would have been subject - or probably so), Knossos, Ithaka, Pylos... etc, major, independent Greek kingdoms. Also allies of Troy... Phrygians, Thracians, Lycians, Maeonians, Amazons (!!) etc. Very difficult finding cities for the period esp. outside Greece and it is a hodge-podge of legendary, bronze age, classical and modern names(that were bronze age sites tho). Xen is probably cringing but I believe it is the best that can be done with the present state of knowledge. My Phrygians frankly border on wishful thinking but I think everyone else is on much more solid ground. If you are interested and someone can tell me the procedure for attaching a zipped map, I will do that. At least I think it would be useful for info if not usable "as is".

@billesarius

isnt your screenname's namesake spelled differently?
thanks for the ideas! if you have any more comments please post them here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97652) Please post your map! To post files:

1) Go to advanced reply screen
2) scroll down and click on Manage Attachments
3)Click Browse and locate your file
4)Click Upload
5)Click Close this window
6)Back in the advanced reply screen, click Submit Reply


Hope this helps!

Yes, I think my namesake was spelled Belisarius. Screen name is more a merging of names but guess it should have been billisarius to be "correct".

Hey, it worked! Thanks the100thballoon.
Couple notes to troymap.zip. The resources are all wrong on this map. No effort was made there.
On this map:
[city name] indicates modern name of a bronze age site (BA names unknown)
(city name) indicates classical name
city name (city name) or bronze age (classical) sometimes appears on the map
I won't swear that every city on the map is actually in the city lists.
Caveats:
Some city locations are very approximate, Ithaka and Hittites especially.
Phrygians.... well, you try to find verifiable bronze age Phrygian cities. It can't(?) be done. This is just a best effort but at least consists of Persian period or earlier. Fwiit classical names Cotiaeum and Midiaeum I have unhellenized/latinized as Cotys' Town and Midas Town or some such, which is the meaning of the names.
Regarding Civs:
Lycians (brown, southeast) these cities are either certain bronze age or probable. Lycian name rather than classical.
Arzawans, (orange) were probably the classical Carians and that is where I have put them.
Maeonians are classical Lydians and in central anatolia.
Only fringe, client states of the Hititte empire appear on this map.

I would have preferred that every city on this map be verifiable bronze age and in its original, native name. That would produce a rather naked map though and this one has bare spots enough. This is really still a work in progress, hope you find it useful though.

cloud_in_the_making: just default shadowing :)

cloud_in_the_making: just default shadowing :)
im checkin it out now. thanks a billion for attempting it. bbl! i have a new unit to look at!

part two, cloud with the lightning effect which was done as a spell by someone. I'll double check and post credits later in the evening.

PS. I never said I was good at this :crazyeye:

these are awsom! only one thing i can think to add: would you add more "lightning" to the stormbolt.flc? it seems like it needs more. or.....actually....could you make the flc longer (more frames) and have three different lightning strikes in different positions one after the other? please? haha looks great though! thanks!

I updated the city graphics, there is now transparancy.