Gentler Hitler takes German stage
August 25, 2004

A decades-long taboo has been broken in Germany by a film in which Adolf Hitler appears for the first time in a central role, not as a ranting demagogue but as a soft-spoken dreamer.

The Downfall is a huge shift from the previous tendency in German cinema to show Hitler only as a background figure or a character who does not appear on camera at all.

It tells the story of the last 12 days of Hitler's life in his 7.5-metre-deep bunker in Berlin - including his suicide with his new wife Eva Braun on April 30, 1945 - while liberating Soviet troops pulverise the city with shellfire.

The production by Bernd Eichinger, a respected director, is likely to cause controversy when it opens in German cinemas next month. It depicts the Fuehrer as an avuncular character with a penchant for chocolate cake, who slides into madness when his lifelong dream of a 1000-year Reich slips from his grasp.

Hitler is convincingly played by the star German actor Bruno Ganz.

In one scene Ganz depicts him with his hair in his eyes, tears streaming down his cheeks, as he declares: "The war is over."

Hitler is shown stroking his alsatian Blondie and treating his secretary with tenderness and patience. Until he starts having hysterical fits, Ganz's Hitler talks in a soft, melodic Austrian accent, far different from the barking tone he adopted for his mass rallies. The director said the voice was copied from the single surviving recording of Hitler talking in normal tones.

Eichinger, who also wrote the screenplay, reconstructs the last days of the Third Reich as seen from the dim, claustrophobic bunker with the help of diary extracts and witness accounts.

The Downfall has been welcomed by critics for demythologising Hitler - even before they have had the chance to see it. Others say the debate is in danger of playing into the hands of those who play down the crimes of the Holocaust.

The Telegraph, London

Hitler cried ?
And He only became delusial 12 days before committing suicide ?
This flys in the face of hes military actions and eyewitnesses.
Remember the footage of him awarding medals to Hitler youths ?

There were a few instances where Hilter did let hes fascade slip. Like the immense stress he bore during the battle of france and him realising after Stalingrade he had lost the war in the east.

I think by this time Hitler was living in his own "fantasy world". Speers reading of Hitler was that he wanted to take the entire German people down with him.
This will be an insteresting film

I'm very interested in seeing this. Being in the States, I'm not exactly sure how to go about seeing this film in a more or less convenient way, any suggestions?

Is it going to be shown in Europe?

Hitler cried ?
And He only became delusial 12 days before committing suicide ?
This flys in the face of hes military actions and eyewitnesses.
Remember the footage of him awarding medals to Hitler youths ?


Why shouldn't he cry?
And why is the author so shocked that he is portrayed as liking chocolate cake and his dog?

There is a tendency to portray Hitler and his henchmen as one-dimensional, demonic figures who are somehow different from 'ordinary' people - to me, it is far more frightening how ordinary they were in many respects in contrast to the evil they perpetrated!

I will be interested to see this movie - anything that helps us understand how Hitler inspired so much loyalty from so many for so long a time will certainly be worth seeing.

BTW, I think you misunderstand about the delusions; the author says:
'Until he starts having hysterical fits, Ganz's Hitler talks in a soft, melodic Austrian accent'
This isn't to say he had no delusions before those 12 last days, he's just talking about the contrast in speaking modes.

I recommend John Tolands Adolf Hitler Biography.

Requires a lot of reading comprehension, but it is very unbiased to the point that you wish the author would comment a bit more.


"even before they have had the chance to see it"


I will not do the same and comment on a movie before I have seen it and rely on 2nd hand information.

Besides, I doubt that anything related to WW2 / Hitler and stuff necessarily means that it is a good and worthwhile movie, controversial or not. They are given by far too much credit just because of the topic.

'Others say the debate is in danger of playing into the hands of those who play down the crimes of the Holocaust'

I just hate this knee-jerk argument! Anyone who tries to understand how the Holocaust came to be and points out the relative normality of the perpetrators is accused of 'playing down' the Holocaust - especially if he happens to be German!

One of the most horrible things about the Holocaust IMO is how otherwise normal people were coopted into participating in it. Yes, there were thugs and sadists among them, but many of the worst offenders were ordinary men and women who believed they were 'just doing their duty'.
Even Hitler was surely not a caricature demon - the fact that he was kind to dogs and children makes his other acts more horrible, not less!

It certainly looks interesting. The only other film I can think of that even remotely suggests Hitler's "other" nature is Chaplin's Adenoid Hinkel in The Great Dictator although the dance scene with the inflatable globe was a joke.

Hitler was just a puppet leader for the Nazis. There were men behind the scenes who weld the true power of Nazi Germany. Read about it sometime. There was a whole Nazi occult before Hitler was even involved in it. He was actually involved in the Communist party for some time. He was only chosen to lead the Nazi Party for his popularity and vigor with the people. Others pulled the strings, and were never caught.

BTW, I think you misunderstand about the delusions; the author says:
'Until he starts having hysterical fits, Ganz's Hitler talks in a soft, melodic Austrian accent'
This isn't to say he had no delusions before those 12 last days, he's just talking about the contrast in speaking modes.


I remember quite well how he would fly into a rage when ever hes generals tried to get him to "retreat" and this was well before the failed assaination attempt.
You may be right he was slipping. Many have stated this started once the war began to turn against him. I remember how many generals would try to reason with hitler only to be lecture by him for a full 2hrs (It was the same old rubbish), Then Hitler would give them there marching orders no arguments allowed.

It seems such a contrast Hitlers actions were quite cowardly.

Sounds interesting.

did anyone see that documentary of hitler's secretary?? I saw it a year ago in cinema in Brazil... so i think it's fairly new
anyway from her description Hitler seemed fairly insane... it will be interesting to see how this movie compares with it

Interesting film. Hopefully one of thesmaller cinemas here will play it.

I read a book on Hitler once, I don't know how true it was though... it stated he got into some pretty sick rituals, one passage said he like to eat (four letters)

one passage said he like to eat (four letters)

Duck?
Meat?
Figs?

:confused:

looks interesting although i also like the serie with Carlyle playing Hitler

Duck?
Meat?
Figs?

:confused:
it ryhmes with quit

it ryhmes with quit

spit?
Pitt?
mitt?
grit?

:confused:

lol, I can't believe you replied with that. :D

There is a tendency to portray Hitler and his henchmen as one-dimensional, demonic figures who are somehow different from 'ordinary' people

Ya I've noticed this too, especially with Rommel.

I wouldn't mind seeing this. Wonder if they touch on his disease, think it was parkinsons but I can't remember

There is a tendency to portray Hitler and his henchmen as one-dimensional, demonic figures who are somehow different from 'ordinary' people - to me, it is far more frightening how ordinary they were in many respects in contrast to the evil they perpetrated!

agreed. Allthough I am not sure I will watch the movie, as I have seen and read enough about Hitler. I am not sure the fascination with him is really healthy for anyone, as the evils of Nazi Germany took millions.

I seriously doubt Hitler was a fecalpheliac... just one of those demonizing writings I would assume.

Ya I've noticed this too, especially with Rommel.

I wouldn't mind seeing this. Wonder if they touch on his disease, think it was parkinsons but I can't remember

Yes, the article I read in Der Spiegel about the film specifically mentioned that he probably had Parkinsons, so I believe it's in the film.

This would be highly interesting. And I must agree, it is somewhat disturbing how they portray him SO differently from ordinary people. He was a madman, yes. But if you took the anti-Semitism, genocidal tendencis, and dictatorship outta him, he's not that different, strangely.:eek:

One should not forget that antisemitism was wide-spread all over Germany, Austria and over the whole of Europe as well.

There were terrible ideologies, ideas of racial superiority and even occult stuff. Really weird things!

BUT what made Hitler different from the others... he had the power to do what his ideology demanded. Many of his followers were rather strange guys, e.g. the guy who designed the skull symbol for the Totenkopf-Verbände (basically killing squads and KZ guards) was Karl Maria Wiligut,

http://www.relinfo.ch/wiligut/info.html

a satanist who was on good terms with Himmler, until they had to drop him because he went completely insane. He lived until 1946 and retired from duty in 1939.

Many of these strange guys had great sympathy for nationalsocialism.

Hitler also had a private astrologer, Otto Hanussen. He believed in the "Vorsehung" (Prediction) that he gave credit to have saved him from dozens of assassination attempts.

He was also heavily inspired by groups in Vienna during his youth like the Thule Gesellschaft who had close links to the teachings of the occultist Helena P. Blavatsky.


Hitler was probably not the "sickest" in mind among them, but he became the most dangerous for sure.

Not to mention he was dangerously charismatic. He almost could make people follow him.:twitch:

Not to mention he was dangerously charismatic. He almost could make people follow him.:twitch:

I'm not certain that's true - at least not to that extent.

Just read an article by Hitler biographer Ian Kershaw in Der Spiegel where he says Hitler's personal charisma has been overstated.
He says Hitlers charisma was not so much personal - as in hypnotic,forcing acceptance - but that of a greatly successful leader, as perceived by the German people until the war turned against them.
In the eyes of the German people of the time, he showed great successes up to 1941 or so, reducing unemployment, 'returning' ethnic Germans to the Reich without a shot being fired, etc.etc.

In other words, Hitler was revered by most for his successes, which reverence achieved almost mythical proportions - but he was not so personally charismatic as to be able to 'force' anyone to follow him.

I think it was Hitler's confidence. He would talk and talk and talk until people came around to his way of thinking or just gave up to shut him up. He beleived he was smarter than everyone else. His intuition was said to be extrodinary too.

I think it was Hitler's confidence. He would talk and talk and talk until people came around to his way of thinking or just gave up to shut him up. He beleived he was smarter than everyone else. His intuition was said to be extrodinary too.


Well this is certanly a charactersistic of about half of the world's population.....

Well this is certanly a charactersistic of about half of the world's population.....

So could half the world's population rise from nothing and become the most powerful man in Europe? Or could they browbeat and outsmart the powerful and well educated of a nation into doing whatever they wanted?

Do you think you could?

I'm not certain that's true - at least not to that extent.

In other words, Hitler was revered by most for his successes, which reverence achieved almost mythical proportions - but he was not so personally charismatic as to be able to 'force' anyone to follow him.

When I think about charisma I think on a face to face basis, most of the German people never met him face to face but only heard him in speeches. He was a gifted orater and that would have helped. I think his success with the mass population came about because he delivered.

First of all keeping a grip on the leadership of the Nazi party and making it grow, then getting the Chancellorship off Hindenburg to then achieving absolute rule over Germany to the extent that the Wehrmacht was bound to him by oath.

Call it what you will; charisma, will power, the 'gift of the gab'........ He must have had something special.

Without doubt, rilnator.

I recommend (again) John Toland's Hitler Biography. Ian Kershaw is also very interesting to read.

Hitler´s main talent was his ablity to hold speeches. So he got a certain fame when he came into the pubs of Munich after ww1. So he was able to poison the Germans in the time of the Great Depression. So he was able to let the conservative appoint him. But he turned the sides. He wasn´t their puppet! So he got the power- and earned the fruits otheres, mainly Stresemann, worked for. All the gains which he was loved for were others, not his. Saarland, rearmament, reparations, unemployment etc. His anti- jewish laws were so tolerated. Until a certain degree. The Reichskristallnacht of 1938 was such a defeat for his ideology that he punished the ones who were responsible for this action he had no idea of. Goebbels and the SA. The SA was unimportant since their leader Röhm was murdered by Hitler. Goebbels wanted to go further on the steps to power. But so Goebbels had to regain his power in the internal structure for years and the SA was even more unimportant. But the average Germans saw even now a leader- but his glory was already hit. Also the outbreak of the war was not the hoped boost in his popularity. They were frightened. That they wanted revenge against Poland and France was clear, but now and so? Then the fast victories. He could not achieve a big popularity boost, at least for a long time. Only for short he could again get foreign fruits... Later his popularity began to sink. After the war with Russia began he lost again popularity, and after Stalingrad he had no background in the population. He was now feared. And hated. The allied bombs and the fear of the Gestapo made demonstration on large scale impossible. A coup d´état was the only alternative...
Also Hitler was the man of the Holocaust. There was no man behind him. He wanted to share the power with nobody. So although the Holocaust was even disputed under strong anti semites in his party, he acted so like he acted in his book.

Adler

Hitler was just a puppet leader for the Nazis. There were men behind the scenes who weld the true power of Nazi Germany. Read about it sometime. There was a whole Nazi occult before Hitler was even involved in it. He was actually involved in the Communist party for some time. He was only chosen to lead the Nazi Party for his popularity and vigor with the people. Others pulled the strings, and were never caught.
:crazyeye:
Are you joking there? ;)

As for the movie, I may go and see it, it might be interesting to see how they portray the things. As for the article, well, Eichinger is not the director and Ganz is not German...

In one point he is right Hitro, Hitler was indeed for a short time on the left wing. He was in one of the Soldatenräte.

Adler

Longasc, I have never read these 2 books being content with Shirer's Rise and Fall. Shirer had access to thousands of once sensitive Nazi douments and witnessed first hand Hitler at his most mischeivious.

Alder, I don't think Hitler could have gained more popularity prior to the beginning of WW2. His results in the pleblscietes were just phenomenal. Getting approval ratings well into the 90s.

I have never heard Hitler dabbled with communism, although in the early days 'socialist' was taken literally from the name NSDAP. BTW, what is the Soldatenrate? I have never heard of this either.

Plebiscites in a dictatorships are usually not worth to anything than propaganda! Hussein got 100 % in the last election...
In the weeks after the collaps of the Second empire there was a civil war between ultra leftists against social democratic, liberal and conservative forces. These ultra left groups, who were part of the USPD, which later became the KPD, formed soldier and worker councils to take the power over. In one of them Hitler was member...

Adler