i decided to expand on the worst of your country thread with the worst of your county thread

i'd say my countries finest hour was of course d-day, the greatest thing my country did was save the free world

well, guess again chachi, if by saving the world you mean defeating the nazis, then that was the russians, by d day germanys wehrmacht was F:d big time, look at the casaulty numbers and compare them with russian front,

facts grasshopper, not nationalistic fiction!

i know russians dont have a big hollywood monster thing to make "saving private smirnov" for them, but that dosent change the facts

d-day was to save france and half of germany to be liberated by the red army, and therefore becoming soviet property, the germans were defeated big time by then already!!

We built the Titanic! I think I can quite safely say that that's our countries finest acheivement, even though we sent hundreds of people to a watery grave. Was a nice ship though.

well, guess again chachi, if by saving the world you mean defeating the nazis, then that was the russians, by d day germanys wehrmacht was F:d big time, look at the casaulty numbers and compare them with russian front,

facts grasshopper, not nationalistic fiction!

i know russians dont have a big hollywood monster thing to make "saving private smirnov" for them, but that dosent change the facts

d-day was to save france and half of germany to be liberated by the red army, and therefore becoming soviet property, the germans were defeated big time by then already!!

1. remember japan

2. we by liberating france saved it from communist rule

3. much technology money, and manufactured parts, came from america

and it was a very nice ship, but for the uk i would also say ww2

1. remember japan

2. we by liberating france saved it from communist rule

3. much technology money, and manufactured parts, came from america

1.i do remember japan and the use of wmd on civilians, as a nationalist however you might not wanna remind others of it :mischief:
and it wasnt the nukes that killed the most civilians anyway, it was the incindiary!

2.i dont see how saving france from communism = saving the world!

3.much technology money, and manufactured parts for what, the russians?

again, i hate to burst your bubble of nationalistic pride with reality again, but look into the facts...

they did recive some hardware, but not much at all, it had to be delivered to them trough the north sea where the german fleet made it real hard..
and the tanks they did get were inferior the t-34s

if you mean much technology money, and manufactured parts for something else, then please correct me!

I'm not too sure that any one country can claim the credit for saving the world during WWII purely for itself. However, I do agree that for the British, the Second World War represents a time when the best of our country was on show. The defiance of the odds to keep in the war despite having to spend a year fighting it all but alone, and then to continue fighting it despite the constraints, and assist in the liberation of Europe was a fine achievement.

Indeed the Americians who went to the USSR were given obscenely huge pay for their work, so really they were just exploiting a country in need. And don't forget, America had no intention whatsoever of "fighting for freedom". They wouldn't have been in the war at all if it weren't for Pearl Harbour.

IKEA :mischief:

World War 2

Norway was the first defensive allied power to eat the Wehrmacht in a field battle.
More than 5000 Germans died in Norway compared to some 10 000 in France during the Blitz. The final sum is Norway removed the mythology of German invulnerability.


Oh , I forgot to mention that it was Norwegian special forces that stopped the German nuclear wespons program, which de facto stopped the German nuclear bomb.

Norway discovered America.

Norway developed skiing in detail.

Norway was about to build a North Atlantic Empire prior to the Black Plague-

1.i do remember japan and the use of wmd on civilians, as a nationalist however you might not wanna remind others of it :mischief:
and it wasnt the nukes that killed the most civilians anyway, it was the incindiary!

2.i dont see how saving france from communism = saving the world!

3.much technology money, and manufactured parts for what, the russians?

again, i hate to burst your bubble of nationalistic pride with reality again, but look into the facts...

they did recive some hardware, but not much at all, it had to be delivered to them trough the north sea where the german fleet made it real hard..
and the tanks they did get were inferior the t-34s

if you mean much technology money, and manufactured parts for something else, then please correct me!

we gave them money

Norway discovered America.

And *that's* something to be proud of...? There's an interesting theory at the moment that the Carthaginians discovered America and even started settling it. It would be great if that were true.


Norway developed skiing in detail.

Although it was - of all people - the English who invented *downhill* ski-ing and developed it as a sport.

Actually, that probably is our greatest achievement. That and David Hume.

Except that he was Scottish. Damn.

Er... Beowulf?

i also think we should exclude ww2 because now i realise many countries can cite thes as their greatest of their country, i would say now excluding ww2, the the fall of the iron curtain that was hastened by americas arms race with russia

Originally Posted by Provolution

In the words of Oscar Wilde: Oh it was discovered before that, they just hushed it up :lol:

As for beating the Wermacht in a field battle, that's hardly difficult considering they'd only faced Poland prior to the invasion of Norway :D

If we're to exclude WWII, then for England I'd go with the Industrial revolution. If we're talking Britain, then I'd go with the Empire, not the most pleasant thing we did, but for such a tiny nation to control so much land is one hell of an achievement :goodjob:

We are in front of the oekological thinking (German word is: 'Umweltschutz').

we killed french knights in 1302 with peasants.
We were then the richest country in the world!

we killed french knights in 1302 with peasants.
We were then the richest country in the world!

Oooooo we managed that At Crecy and Agincourt and Potiers, we even captured their king at the last battle :goodjob:

Pity we lost though in the end :sad:

we killed french knights in 1302 with peasants.
We were then the richest country in the world!

Which country are you talking about? I don't get the reference... :confused:

Philippe's Belgian IIRC

we gave them money

im sure you did, but as im sure you know money cant fight wars.

what you can do with money is to buy weapons, but then youll have to find sosmeone willing to sell weapons!


however in wars or a mess like ww2, people are not likely to part with their weapons, not even for money cause it can mean their ass!

for example the usa had a a few contracts to deliver weapons to certain countries,for example fighter planes to sweden

contracts that were written before the war, and after the war broke out they decided to keep it for themselves, and not deliver them when it was needed the most


and the russians couldnt buy anything from the allies cause as i mentioned earlier, the allies were delivering as much stuff as could already, which wasnt much!


im not saying having money is bad, but having some real help is better!

We are in front of the oekological thinking (German word is: 'Umweltschutz').

To clarify: my countryman means 'ecologic'. Umweltschutz = nature preservation.

Many of us in Germany are indeed quite proud of our achievements in this area, with one of the highest ratios of regenerative energies in the world (right behind Japan and Iceland, I believe), stringent laws against pollution, high ratio of recycling etc.

I think you'll find the amount of goods delivered to the Russians (mostly through RN convoys) was quite extensive actually, and was very useful to them. An example would be when the Russians invaded Poland and East Prussia, their offensive would have come to a very quick halt had it not been for the American trucks they had acquired. If they didn't have those they would have had to build new railway tracks and so on to bring up supplies. Numerous reserve divisions in the Russian army were equipped with US or British tanks, food, metals, all sorts of equipment was sent.

What more precisely were the western allies to do? They had to build their own armies after all...

look into the numbers, and read about the naval battles of the supply convoys with the germans, mostly submarines

look into the numbers, and read about the naval battles of the supply convoys with the germans, mostly submarines

I have actually, and the supplies were extensive both in variety, and amount (someone posted a link a while back, it might be worth you looking for it). Some things quite literally enabled the Russians to do what they did so well and so fast. Oh and I'm perfectly aware of the Russian convoys thank you very much, one of my great uncles served on a fair few of them. If you want to ignore the obvious contribution the west made to Russia's war effort then you're just fooling yourself. Not that I'm saying Russia wasn't important, it certainly was, but the argument that western support was wortless just isn't borne out by facts.

I am though wondering why fighting submarines as opposed to surface craft is so important :crazyeye:

well i guess it depends on what you mean by "extensive", compared to the stuff the russians produced it wasnt "extensive"

compared to what, say romanian army had, it was!

im not saying the west didnt contribute, im saying the west didnt contribute much!
or at least not as much as west claims to have, and takes credit for! :crazyeye:


im saying the russians wouldve won anyway, but most likely it would take more time!

anyway the biggest contribution came from bombings of germany, which, if you bother to look into, youll see didnt come in massive amounts, until the end of the war, AFTER the wehrmacht got its ass kicked :goodjob:

the russians were the ones that died in millions and suffered the most, the allies casaulties didnt even come close to casaulties taken and inflicted by the russians

but still most americans think it was america that single handedly won that war, cause thats what hollywood told them! :mad:

well i guess it depends on what you mean by "extensive", compared to the stuff the russians produced it wasnt "extensive"

Hardly relevant, what is relevant is that it meant that the Russians didn't have to develop and build their own equivalents for most of the war such as the trucks, or discover their own amounts of certain resources. A lot of things Russia either couldn't produce, or didn't have to because of the west, and that is important, especially in the early years.

im not saying the west didnt contribute, im saying the west didnt contribute much!

I suggest you look into it closer then, or at least from a different light to simply quantity.

im saying the russians wouldve won anyway, but most likely it would take more time!

I doubt that very much

anyway the biggest contribution came from bombings of germany, which, if you bother to look into, youll see didnt come in massive amounts, until the end of the war, AFTER the wehrmacht got its ass kicked

Sorry? You know what I do and don't know now? :rolleyes: I love the way you reduce the allied war effort so "brilliantly" though :crazyeye:

the russians were the ones that died in millions and suffered the most, the allies casaulties didnt even come close to casaulties taken and inflicted by the russians

Casualties are far and away the silliest way to judge who contributed to WWII, in fact it's easy to argue that Russian tactics and political meddling often contributed to these significantly.

but still most americans think it was america that single handedly won that war, cause thats what hollywood told them!

Probably, but you won't find that many on this forum who base their opinions so loosely.

youre hot! :lol:

you should be a comedian!

Excellent rebuttal :rolleyes:

We (Finland) invented the sauna! And SMS messaging :D

My birth, obviously.

In the words of Oscar Wilde: Oh it was discovered before that, they just hushed it up :lol:

As for beating the Wermacht in a field battle, that's hardly difficult considering they'd only faced Poland prior to the invasion of Norway :D

If we're to exclude WWII, then for England I'd go with the Industrial revolution. If we're talking Britain, then I'd go with the Empire, not the most pleasant thing we did, but for such a tiny nation to control so much land is one hell of an achievement :goodjob:

Well Private Hudson, you must add Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and France to the equation, as the battles I talk about in Narvik lasted to June. In addition, add Britain as well, for the field battles they lost during the invasion of France and Belgium.

The British didn't really loose that many field battles in 1940, they lost the campaign mostly, not the engagements within it. Even so though, it's hardly the most brilliant of achievements, either way you lost in the end :p

Oh yes, and the British "won" a battle around Calais during May of 1940 against the attacking German armour, holding them back for days with little men or resources and driving off a number of attacks. I guess we don't count as a "defensive allied power" or something :lol: What next? The first power with reindeers that beat the wermacht? ;)

Guess it depends on the defenition of "victory" and who you talk to and how pedantic you want to be :mischief:

For my country it surely is industry. Czech Industrial Revolution partialy revived as a nation- our national identity is even partly based on image of industrialists.
And of course Russian Czechoslovak Legion Anabasis.

To clarify: my countryman means 'ecologic'. Umweltschutz = nature preservation.

Many of us in Germany are indeed quite proud of our achievements in this area, with one of the highest ratios of regenerative energies in the world (right behind Japan and Iceland, I believe), stringent laws against pollution, high ratio of recycling etc.
Good point. I would add the, compared with most other countries, pretty unselfish foreign policy of the last decades.

Oh, and whoever built the Autobahn. ;)

It would be interesting to see just how many threads degenerate into arguments about who won WWII...

Especially considering the answer is "all the allies" :)

I'm kind of wondering if this thread is supposed to be everyones opion of their country or everyones opion on everyone elses country, but I'll have to say that since I'm American our greatest moment was when Niel Armstrong set foot on the moon.

Our worst hour in my opinion was the Bay of Pigs invasion, it was done half heartedly, without air support, it was done with Cuban Exiles so it really wasn't even a military ordeal, it was bound to fail and it made President Kennedy and the USA look bad

i agree about the moon landing, that was cool

i say its even cooler than winning any war

the russians indeed did a lot to win ww2, with all the man power, and much industry, but the americans and british still helped the russians immensly

now lets end it here and lets not threadjack

Britain's finest hour wasn't the winning of WW2, but two events which followed the end of the war.
(1) The peaceful dismantling of the largest empire ever.
(2) The founding of the welfare state.

those indians were better off in the empire :)

The best of my ccountry is certainly the spelling... ;)

Well ok seriously speaking, there's nothing good in my country.

spelling is very important;)

Well ok seriously speaking, there's nothing good in my country.
We have good food and pretty girls. :D
Although I find you hair a bit to "spiky" in your picture, and the blueish color isn't of the best effect.

the russians indeed did a lot to win ww2, with all the man power, and much industry, but the americans and british still helped the russians immensly

now lets end it here and lets not threadjack

Right on my man

Britain's finest hour wasn't the winning of WW2, but two events which followed the end of the war.
(1) The peaceful dismantling of the largest empire ever.
(2) The founding of the welfare state.

None of that would have been possible had we not won the war :mischief:

I find little to be proud of in my country, but then, I'm rather mad at it these days...

I guess the best I could say about it was it helped trigger the French Revolution (though many other factors were a part of that, it still was one of the biggest).

Norway:
Nortraship, the requisition of the Norwegian merchant fleet (1000+ ships) to aid the Allies during World War 2. We lost about 3800 sailors in those five years (1940-45). (However; the treatment of the surviving sailors back home after the end of the war, should rather be put in the "worst of your country thread)

The raid at Rjukan, Telemark (sabotage of German deuterium [heavy water] plant), followed by the sinking of the ferry Hydro, a vessel used for transportation of deuterium already produced. Joint British-Norwegian operation, this one.

Two achievements without which the war could just as well have been lost.

I would say being the cradle of Slavic literature and scripture, along with inventing the Cyrilic alphabet, and spreading Slavic scripture all around Europe. [X century]

1- Alexander Fleming's discovery of the antibiotic properties of penicillin.

2- Joseph Lister's promotion of surgical hygiene.

Those take some beating. In third place, I'd go for the engineering achievements of Isambard Kingdom Brunel, followed by the creation of the welfare state over the governments of Asquith, Lloyd-George and Attlee, and the development of Gladstonian liberalism.

Those take some beating.

How about Jenner and the smallpox vaccine? It's estimated that by developing it he was responsible for saving more lives than anyone else in history.

... I'm Greek ...
... I hate long posts ...





... :rotfl:

In other words, like that guy in "My big fat Greek wedding" he claims they invented everything :mischief:

At the moment its 17 gold medals in the Olympic games.

Not bad for a country of 20 million.

We blame our weather :D

In other words, like that guy in "My big fat Greek wedding" he claims they invented everything :mischief:
Yap ... you hit it on the money ! :goodjob:


p.s. rilnator , I don't think that Australia is a "small" country ... :lol:

Best of my country?

1958, 1962, 1970, 1994 and 2002.

And I predict 2006.

The best of my country, a hard choice, but it is probably me.

Funny that, I seem to recall things like trains, tanks and powered flight coming from elsewhere :p

Canada caused the turning point of World War 1 at Vimy Ridge.

you know america has done so many great things it's hard to choose :)

We Brits have an even bigger problem :blush:

I find little to be proud of in my country, but then, I'm rather mad at it these days...

I guess the best I could say about it was it helped trigger the French Revolution (though many other factors were a part of that, it still was one of the biggest).

LEt's see, we have accomplished many things:

1) Successfully liberated ourselves from the British Empire (A huge accomplishment!:goodjob: )

2) Successfully came through the Civil War as a stronger, more united nation, ending slavery.

3) The Civil Rights movement. Though took many years, Black citizens and those of other colors are now equal to everyone else.

4) First man on the moon.

5) Pretty-sounding patriotic music ;) (Battle Hymn of the Republic, Yankee Doodle, Our national Anthem, America the Beautiful)

6) Helped beat back the Nazis, which helped end the Holocaust

7) Today, donates millions of dollars in international aid.

8) Jointly with the UK, helped lay the first transatlantic cable

9) Have made many great technological advancements. Recently, there has been some success in curing some people with HIV. (It's an incredibly small percent, but it's a start!)

10) Successfully averted nuclear holocaust, thanks to the cool heads of US and Soviet diplomats.

However, there were some bad things.

1) The slaughter and annexation of the native American tribes.

2) The oppression of the workers in the early industrial ages(damn, that makes me sound like a friggin' commie! But you can't say that it wasn't oppression in those days, what with all the inhumane and unsafe working conditions)

3) one of the last nations to give up slavery. (:()

4) Waited so darn long to get involved in the WWs.

5) Invention of the WMDs. (But, in a way, the WMDs were a blessing. You've read "What If? 2";))

6) Vietnam War fiasco. It was a worthy enough cause, but it was a big flop militarily.:(

But, it's good to look at the bright sid of things. I acknowledge that our nation has done some bad things, but we have done good things, which you can be proud of.:)

Successfully liberated ourselves from the British Empire

Oh so THAT'S what they tell you is it? :lol: Let me let you into a little secret, after seeing what you were like (religious weirdos and this ridiculous notion called democracy, PAH!) we let you win your freedom. In fact we did such a good job of convincing you otherwise, that to this day you still think we wanted to keep you! :mischief:

Damn your deluded history books ;)

Bah! You and your colonial taxations! Whatever happened to taxation with proper representation? We never got it!:p

;)

You know, somehow I knew that Amen was going to quote my post and put a whole list of reasons to like our country under it... I seem to recall he's done that before... :D

Bah! You and your colonial taxations! Whatever happened to taxation with proper representation? We never got it!:p

;)

Nope, but you did get lower taxes than my relations, who probably got the same representation too :lol:

@NK

Is this a problem?:hmm: I'm merely pointing out that there are some good things about the US.

Our greatest moment was the peaceful conclusion of the thirteen days of the Cuban Missile Crisis, that nearly saw the world enveloped, in nuclear war. It is our greatest achievement to have saved the world, that day.

@NK

Is this a problem?:hmm: I'm merely pointing out that there are some good things about the US.

No. I'm just pointing out that you've already pointed all those things out... To me, in a thread about what to be proud of in your country... Deja Vu? :p

LEt's see, we have accomplished many things:
lets see. What exactly have u accomplished:

"1) Successfully liberated ourselves from the British Empire (A huge accomplishment! )"
It depends how you look at things. imo, the world would be a much happier place now if you were still under the British.

"2) Successfully came through the Civil War as a stronger, more united nation, ending slavery."
Ending slavery is not an accomplishment on its own. Its a correction of a fatal historical mistake. If HItler apologized for the Holocaust and built graves for couple of thousands, thats not an accomplishment.

"3) The Civil Rights movement. Though took many years, Black citizens and those of other colors are now equal to everyone else."
Same as point 2.

"4) First man on the moon. "
You got this one. ;)

"5) Pretty-sounding patriotic music (Battle Hymn of the Republic, Yankee Doodle, Our national Anthem, America the Beautiful)"
Yankee Doodle... Oh yeah, that sounds pretty.

"6) Helped beat back the Nazis, which helped end the Holocaust"
OK.

"7) Today, donates millions of dollars in international aid."
Only a tiny tiny fraction of what it extorts from other countries.

"8) Jointly with the UK, helped lay the first transatlantic cable"
OK.

"9) Have made many great technological advancements. Recently, there has been some success in curing some people with HIV. (It's an incredibly small percent, but it's a start!)"
Success in curing HIV. Not really, only in treatement of ill people. But, yeah, you're working on it. If only people from Third World countries could even get near those medicines, it would be great.

"10) Successfully averted nuclear holocaust, thanks to the cool heads of US and Soviet diplomats."
Nuclear holocaust, was a possibility you created and now we should be happy and praise US that it prevented it from happening. Odd logic to me.

The moon landing was a huge achievement in America's part.

The Lend-Lease act and the Marshall Plan was probably our most unsordid acts in history as far as helping the world goes.

I havn't seen any Brits mention the descovery of penicillin.

The Brits should also mention Isaac Newton. Great contribution to mankind, almost without paralel.

Residing in Canada, but of Scottish decent the biggest contribution I think of first by Scotland was from Sir Alexander Flemming.

He discovered effective uses for penicillin, which had a substantial impact on healthcare worldwide.

Other then that - Scotch! :sad:

Dare I go into Canada's token effort in WW2 (comparitively)

I must commend Canada's stance on 'Peacekeeping' and applaud it not joining 'the Coalition of the Willing' against Iraq.

Also it's contributions to space programs and exploration are sizeable.

The best of my ccountry is certainly the spelling... ;)

Well ok seriously speaking, there's nothing good in my country (France).

What about the Napoleonic Wars? The French resistance in WWII? Missionary work in the New World? Conquering England? Taking a stand aginst the British in thr Napoleonic Wars, after they bothering you for many years? The first big Republic? Stoping the Germans outside Paris in WWI? John of Ark? Overseas colonies? You guys have many cool things!

Well half of them are negative things. Exept Joan. She was only one in the entire history of religion who acctually used it for something positive.

5) Invention of the WMDs. (But, in a way, the WMDs were a blessing. You've read "What If? 2";))
Correct me if I am wrong and I know I am not the US didn't invent WMDs, (they made them more destructive yes but they didn't invent them), so u really gotta open the history books again.

Other then that - Scotch! :sad:

Dare I go into Canada's token effort in WW2 (comparitively).
Scotch keeps me happy.
And if it wasn't for the canadians D-Day would have had much more casualties. And I know canada contributed much more inWWII than you know.

For Canada, I would have to say our peacekeeping(Havn't missed a peacekeeping mission yet IIRC) And the period from the Boer War to the end of WW1. That's basically when we came out of our British Colony shell and stepped into the lime light of the international stage as a separate nation.

p.s. rilnator , I don't think that Australia is a "small" country ... :lol:

I don't either, in terms of size. But regards population I do.

What about the Napoleonic Wars? The French resistance in WWII? Missionary work in the New World? Conquering England? Taking a stand aginst the British in thr Napoleonic Wars, after they bothering you for many years? The first big Republic? Stoping the Germans outside Paris in WWI? John of Ark? Overseas colonies? You guys have many cool things!
Napoleonic wars : 1.5 Million death
WWI :1.5 Million deaths
Overseas colonies : Colonial wars of the 19th century: 112 000 casualties, Lead to Indochina (87 000 casualties on French side) and Algeria wars (24 000 death on French side)

Yes, these things are so cool :goodjob:

French resistance : OK, valid point. But with several black points to.
Missionary work: we didn't send that many missionaries. However, I would agree that amongst the colonizing powers, France was the more friendly with natives.
Big Republic : wasn't the USA before? And a functionnal Republic only appeared in 1958... The first one couldn't stand the opposition or Europe and evolved into the Empire, then the other ones were very unstable.

What about the Napoleonic Wars? The French resistance in WWII? Missionary work in the New World? Conquering England? Taking a stand aginst the British in thr Napoleonic Wars, after they bothering you for many years? The first big Republic? Stoping the Germans outside Paris in WWI? John of Ark? Overseas colonies? You guys have many cool things!


Taking a stand against the British in the napoleonic wars? :lol: That's a humorous one :crazyeye:

We blame our weather :D

Maybe you guys transported all your best athletes out here all those years ago...........

Taking a stand against the British in the napoleonic wars? :lol: That's a humorous one :crazyeye:
Hey, if you study the major battles between Wellington and Napoleon, you'll see that Wellington has lost all of them but one, while Napoleon has won all of them but one.

I am going to agree with Steph, but I share his point of view:

Napoleon was without doubt a great leader and General.

But I also share his doubt in admiring military actions as the "best" of a country. One could consider the "Sichelschnitt", "Barbarossa", the Invasion and other forms of Blitzkrieg and early German military operations during WW2 as the "best of Germany", but I think we live in the 21th century (note: 2000+ is really 21th century, think about it <g>), war and military strength plus nationalism are now nearly 60 years away from us, but history shows that war is an ugly thing over all ages, nothing to be really proud of. It has also a barbarian touch to be proud of being or having been "very good" in things of warfare.

Hey, if you study the major battles between Wellington and Napoleon, you'll see that Wellington has lost all of them but one, while Napoleon has won all of them but one.

:lol: You could be Goebbels :D

Wellington 1 Napoleon 0

Nuff said :smug:

Maybe you guys transported all your best athletes out here all those years ago

Well they had pleanty of practice in running away generally :mischief:

It has also a barbarian touch to be proud of being or having been "very good" in things of warfare.

Entirely depends on the motives for fighting in the first place :)

No. I'm just pointing out that you've already pointed all those things out... To me, in a thread about what to be proud of in your country... Deja Vu? :p

O wait... Oops, I did do that before.:crazyeye:

R

Dare I go into Canada's token effort in WW2 (comparitively)




For a long time in between the fall of France and the US entry we were the UK's biggest and closet ally.

The best of my country was loosing southern sweden to the Swedes. Imagine if we had to live with those people [shivers] No, let the Swedes keep it I say.

I would say being the cradle of Slavic literature and scripture, along with inventing the Cyrilic alphabet, and spreading Slavic scripture all around Europe. [X century]

Ehm... Ehm...?

I would rather credit Cyril and Method with inventing scripts of "cirilika" and "glagolica". And it was on a mail-order from Moravian Prince.

The best of my country was loosing southern sweden to the Swedes. Imagine if we had to live with those people [shivers] No, let the Swedes keep it I say.
Actually the Scanians were completly Danish. It was only after the war they became what they are now.

I would say the best of our country is the political development from 1849 to 1915. We were one of the first countries to become a real democracy. Or ofcause the beer :beer:

Well for the country of my birth, China:

I think its greatest acomplishment to date is simply existing. Its culture exists as a continuous line from the beginnings of agriculture. It is the sole survivor of the original greats - the Indus Valley Civilisation, the Sumarians, the Egyptians, etc. While the other ancient ones still exist in some manner or form, they have largely lost the character of their ancient forebears as they lost power in the flux and flow of history and were crushed by invaders and the regions were colonised by others. For example, I was wondering for a while why Chinese religion seems to be so fundamentally different from the other dominant religions e.g. Christianity. I think it is because Chinese religion even today still retains a large amount of the characteristics of the ancient agriculture based religions of the distant past and which has largely died out in the West and the Middle East and S. America and to a lesser extent Africa. While China was influenced by other nations during its history (India being the number one influence) until modern times its culture largely developed alone. When people invaded China absorbed their conquerors into itself. Even now, many Chinese want to obtain modernity without sacrificing their "Chineseness".

Not only has China simply managed to survive. It has dominated the landscape of Asia since the beginning. It is common knowledge that the Roman Empire had vast effects on the development of Europe. However China had the same effect on the smaller nations in Asia around it, from writing to religion to agricultural practices. A large part of the Japanese culture for example originally orginated in China (though it has developed into a unique culture of its own). The massive weight of the Chinese culture means it is the true balance to the dominant Western European derived culture.

Basically if this was a Civ game, China would be on top for cultural victory :)

For Australia:

It's greatest moment I think is its incorporation into Federation in 1901 (even though very few Australians, let alone anyone outside of Australia, even know about this). The reason why it was great in my opinion is because everything was done by (decades of) talking and with no participant being co-erced into joining through threats or political manipulation. Australia is one of the few countries where has never been any civil war, never torn by conflict, with no real grudges. This is because its one of the newest countries, for sure, but the larger states like NSW could have tried to simply *force* the smaller ones, but they didn't. A legacy of this is that unlike many constructed countries in Europe say, Australia is very stable and united with a strong sense of national identity. Basically the bloodless formation of the country now known as Australia and its continual stability and unity is one of the great triumphs of what can be achieved with modern diplomacy.

While I agree that one should not glorify wars I can think of two things France should be proud of.

First, the Napoleonic Code. The civil code introduced by Napoloen had flaws (esp. pertaining women) but it was the first modern civil code of laws. First in France it introduced a uniform set of laws wiping out the tangled mess of laws that existed in each minor region. It cemented the ideals of the French Revolution in civil law - individual freedom and equality, and also things like modern contract law. While Napoleon's conquest of Europe didn't last long, the legacy of his civil code still continues as much of the modern civil code in dozens of countries is derived directly from the Napoleonic Code.

Second, the French Revolution. This event was a failure in its own time. However it was the first revolution to really be led by the common man (rather than say vested interests or warlords) and to espouse the ideals of individual freedom and equality. Even the American Revolution didn't really reach these heights as it was largely driven by land-owners (look at who had voting rights after the war...) and was initially driven by opposition to taxation. Freedom and equality came later as voting rights and power was gradually wrested away from the land-owners and opened up to the larger population. However the leaders of the French Revolution, the bourgeouise were truly the common man. Despite the modern idea of them being upper middle-class, at the time the bourgeouise were not only rich merchants, but tailors and shop-keepers, butchers and writers and was truly driven by the philosophy to implement freedom and equality for all. Though it failed, the ideals of the French Revolution rolled over to the rest of Europe and could be seen as the seminal event that directly sparked off the last couple of centuries of revolution and the modern ideals of individual freedom and equality that drove them. Many historians believe that we are still living with the after-effects of the French Revolution. The entire political nature of the modern world comes from the ideals of the French Revolution.


I am going to agree with Steph, but I share his point of view:

Napoleon was without doubt a great leader and General.

But I also share his doubt in admiring military actions as the "best" of a country. One could consider the "Sichelschnitt", "Barbarossa", the Invasion and other forms of Blitzkrieg and early German military operations during WW2 as the "best of Germany", but I think we live in the 21th century (note: 2000+ is really 21th century, think about it <g>), war and military strength plus nationalism are now nearly 60 years away from us, but history shows that war is an ugly thing over all ages, nothing to be really proud of. It has also a barbarian touch to be proud of being or having been "very good" in things of warfare.

I agree with you. Even if the French armies of the time did dominate the battlefields of Europe against more powerfull coalitions, and the Napoelonic time was amongst the most glorious years of France, I don't think we can consider it the best. The Napoleonic code, but also many reforms, in the roads system, schools, etc. were made by Napoleon.
However, can we consider it the best of France? Or simply the best of a exceptional man?

The French revolution, and the following wars, in the early year, where French people fought for democracy and freedom against almost all the European countries, and at the time in wars of defense, not agression, was also a great time.

Our greatest moment was the peaceful conclusion of the thirteen days of the Cuban Missile Crisis, that nearly saw the world enveloped, in nuclear war. It is our greatest achievement to have saved the world, that day.Is that how they teach it in the US? Kinda funny twist of reality...

The KGB organised all this for 1 purpose; getting the US missiles out of Turkey; the only NATO country bordering the USSR near it's core. Thanks to Kennedy's flaws, caused by Addison's desease, addiction to hydrocortison and the result of that; insomnia and panick-attacks, combined with all the many daily injections and amfetamines (speed) against the pain in his back, caused by having legs that were unequal in length, he was during those days of his Presidency barely more than a junkie and barely able to think at all, he worsened the situation so dramatically that it was nearly all to blame on the US if the world would have been in a nuclear war those days.

Link to this source of information (http://discoverychannel.co.in/alteredstatesmen/feature1.shtml)

Best of "your country": I don't believe you can answer this. It is either a thing done by an individual or a company, or something that helped your country; which automatically means it hurts others.
But if have to name 1; the effort put in to have international courts of justice.

Hehe, lets's see if some more people come up with great things besides a collection of "famous historical battles of my country". :)

Steph, most famous persons of history were similar to Napoleon... but I think Napoleon did all this for France, the Code Civil/Napoleon is clearly of french origin and practiced in France, so why not count it.

Best of my country:

George Washington declining an offer to be King of America, instead doing what he knew was best for the country and the people.

Actually the Scanians were completly Danish. It was only after the war they became what they are now.

I would say the best of our country is the political development from 1849 to 1915. We were one of the first countries to become a real democracy. Or ofcause the beer :beer:
Yeah people tell me that, but looking at them - I just cannot believe that. The Scanians are so... uh... Swedish... they must have been a little wierd even back then.

Btw, most Danish beer sucks. Only the micro breweries are worth drinking.

Ehm... Ehm...?

I would rather credit Cyril and Method with inventing scripts of "cirilika" and "glagolica". And it was on a mail-order from Moravian Prince.
True. Cyril and Methodius were Greeks from the Slavicized city of Thessalonika, a city in Macedonia. They spoke Slavic and were Slavic in culture.
Serving under the Bulgarian tsar, and upon the Moravian prince request they created the two alphabets.
The reason why I credit my country with this is because the center and original core of literature activity was Ohrid, a city in Macedonia, form where the very first Slavic sholars orginated (St. Climent and Naum, students of Cyril and Methodius, and establishers of the Ohrid Scribal School in the XI century).

I think my countrys great moments were Galipoli (which we lost) and Monte Cassio, also the 1984 World cup of rugby, When New Zealand won the Americas Cup and the when Sir edward Hillary climed Mt. Everest. And some more............... when New Zealand stood up to the United states about nuclear ships coming into our habours (you can shuv your alliance) and when we sent navy ships to protest French Nuclear testing.
Our worst moments were handing over the french spys to blew up the Rainbow Warrior and the Riots that happended when the Spring bok (south africa) rugby team came to play in New Zealand during the arpatid (cant spell)

The best of my country... being amongst the first to give women equal rights and voting rights. Never having slavery (except for those banana-benders *shudders* :D). The peaceful federation of Australia as opposed to the more violent unions which were / are common elsewhere. Gallipoli. Fighting against Germany and Japan in WWII from the get-go.

The worst of my country... not letting Aboriginals have voting and equal rights until the Sixties. The White Australia Policy (although on the flip-side we also phased it out over about 20 years, and we weren't nearly as bad as South Africa and Zimbabwe).

Helping defeat Nazi Germany, in doing so ensuring Germany could never give rise to a dispicable person like Hitler again or threaten the world.

Winning the Viet Nam War. Since we got out of that mess, and brought our soldiers home from a conflict that was neither necessary or ultimately win-able.

Winning the Viet Nam War. Since we got out of that mess, and brought our soldiers home from a conflict that was neither necessary or ultimately win-able.

I would hardly call that winning in any context. I guess in your simular context you could say the U.S. won the Vietnam War since it pulled out also.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

These radical notions were written in a Declaration of Independence from the British Empire in 1776. The Congress of the United States of America were not the first people to debate or declare these things, but they Were the first to take the next step and make them a reality.

-Elgalad

Winning is a bit of an exaggerration. But we did not sustain the amount of casualties which the US did. Then again, more Australians were killed by 'friendly fire' from a certain ally, than by the Viet Kong

Winning is a bit of an exaggerration. But we did not sustain the amount of casualties which the US did. Then again, more Australians were killed by 'friendly fire' from a certain ally, than by the Viet Kong

To be fair that is only because Australian troop involvment was a fraction of the U.S. was in Vietnam.

best of my country:

we were tought to not take credit for things we didnt do! :mischief:

Sweden:
World's oldest constitutional Freedom of Speech act (actually the freedom to print). "Tryckfrihetsförordningen" of 1766.

Hey, if you study the major battles between Wellington and Napoleon, you'll see that Wellington has lost all of them but one, while Napoleon has won all of them but one.

Napoleon would have won Watterloo if the Prussians had not shown up.

Good thing about canada:
Money
Peace
Hockey
Bilingual
Liberal
...nuff said