NOW ADAPTED FOR VERSION 1.29f !!

Download the version 1.29f of the map that you can find at the bottom of this message. :)

Here's the Miller's projection of the earth. Alaska is near Russia and sizes are almost respected (it's NOT Mercator's projection where Greenland is as big as Africa, here, Greenland is around 16 times smaller than Africa). The Bering Strait is a strait, Italy looks like Italy (even if Sicily is really tiny and connected to Italy), there's islands in the pacific ocean (marshall islands, polynesia, etc...).

Civilizations birthplaces are in the same place as in reality which creates a little problem because european civilization are fighting to create new cities as firsts (some place is missing when we play with 16 civilizations).

I've also placed barbarian camps and goodie huts where there's the most people today and also in historical place such as Jerusalem, Mecca, the Incans or Scandinavia. To decide if it was a goodie hut or a barbarian camp, i've just cared about distances between it and a civilization birthplace. Just to avoid barbarian invasion that doesn't let us time to create our first warrior.

Each ressources are placed like in reality. As my knowledge about it isn't infinite I would like people to tell me about it to make changes for a later version.

I've placed ocean/sea/coast regarding to the depth of the seas in the real world. It's pretty fun cause we can reach Canada through Greenland from Europe using Galleys as did the vikings. We can reach caribean islands from Europe using Caravels as did Christopher Colombus. And we must wait galleon to explore south Pacific Islands as did James Cook.

Civilizations are growing in a pretty realistic way. Russia is going to the east because there's too many people in Europe. France go to Spain, Germany to central Europe, China (Beijing) goes to the south or Japan goes in the pacific islands. I've put wheats and cattles in the places where there's today the most humans. That means mainly Europe, China and India, but also, the east of the US, south american east coast, Nigeria, North Africa, south east Australian coast.
:crazyeyes :crazyeyes :crazyeyes

About my critics now :(
Europe is very small and in the fight to found new cities, Rome is often the loser. Japan and England wait centuries to start to devellop to get out of their islands. Computer civilizations never declare war between each other, I guess that comes from the AI and I've nothing to deal with, but it's pretty boring to see so much pacifist people.

Only few civilizations can build the Iron works small wonder. (Germany, France, England, America, Iroquois and China). What else to say... well that's all... I'm waiting for your critics !


write me soon.
:egypt:

Oh, by the way, it's really boring cause we cannot go to the black sea from the mediterranean sea like we used to do in Civilization 2. Regarding to history, it's not weird to think that boats and pedestrians can cross that area. I tell that because Japan and the UK are really penalized cause they must wait trireme to get out of their islands. It would be easier to join also Gibraltar and Sweden with Denmark.

Latest version: Marla Singer's World Map 1.29f
(version 1.05 removed after 1394 downloads)
(version 1.085 removed after 1279 downloads)
(version 1.10 removed after 452 downloads)
(version 1.13 removed after 4927 downloads)
(version 1.17 removed after 2239 downloads)
(Version 1.18 removed after 7791 downloads)
=> it works now with 1.17f version of civ3

NOW ADAPTED TO 1.29f VERSION OF CIV 3

Each civilization is automatically at its correct location.
Civilizations can't build anymore cities on tundra and on desert. Colonies can be build to get ressources.

Here's a little snapshot of my map. I know it's a small picture, but we can't find better with that version of civilization.

Thanks Marla.

The snapshot looks really great. Haven´t tried it yet though. But I have downloaded a couple of maps. i.e. Stayas. Had to make some changes to it before I could play it.
Since I´m at work know I have to wait a couple hours before I can try it. Will be bake with feedback.

But I have to object to your idea of letting the English and Japanese be connected to mainland. No way. That would´nt be historic. They simply have to build galleys and make colonys.

When my girlfriend calmes down (she´s a bit upset that I spend least four hours each night with civ3) I´ll start with my own world map or perhaps smaller parts like Scandinavia or Europe.

Well I guess you're right it's more accurate regarding to history and finally both civilizations (the one located in Japan and the other in the UK) can handle with it in my tests. :crazyeyes But I'm sure I would never take them to start to play !! :D

Well, while playing to the v1.02. I've discovered a tech rate at 300 is a lot too slower. I've put it now at 200 so I hope it will help but I haven't tested it. I've also put the optimized number of city at 32 instead of 50... maybe it was a wrong choice, if you want to change it, go in the editor, then select "world size", choose then "tiny" (that's the map I've edited to create my map) and then, put the optimized number how you want.
32 cities without any corruption issues is enough I guess.

Now about changes, I've listened to you guys and I've reduced the number of barbarian camps and increased the number of goody huts. We must not forget that we play at 16 in there so everyone must be served. I've done so to promote exploring, especially in places such as Indonesia, the atlantic ocean or Africa and South America.
I've also done some small other changes, look at the readme to see them. :)

Version 1.08: Before everything, ressources have been rethought.
But also, African and American great lakes sizes have been decreased. Jungle has been mixed with forest in places the most densed in population today (Indonesia, Malaysia, Congo River, Manaus (Brazil))

:hammer:
:flamedevi

I will always write latest changes in this post so that it's easier to find them in the thread.

I haven´t seen your map yet because I am at work at the
moment but I am afraid of such huge maps because games
there last for ever. I would like to have a world map
approximately the size of the classical one in Civ1, I do
not remember now its exact size. When I have the time
I will work on it.

Also, I suggest everybody to work out
maps using a trasparent paper with a grid painted in it
and a real map in a book for optimal accuracy. It takes
a long time but it is the only way to do things really well,
putting rivers, mountains, hills and forest in its very correct place,
and remember a good map is better than a handful of bad ones.

I only created two maps for civ2, one of Europe and another one of Spain, both of them needed a long time and are very accurate. I have tried to convert both of them to civ3 but I do not know how to ask the editor to create a map of a given exact size. Any help will be welcome.

Well, you don't know what ? I've used a transparent paper with a grid... well it's not a transparent paper, it's just paper with squares and a so poor quality that we can see through it the shape of the map behind. The map has been redimensioned to look proportionate in the game.
I've made some changes especially in Europe to make it a bit bigger and to make of the british isles actually islands. Italy has been also changed because it was too tiny and it really wasn't fair for romans.
About, forests in a map at their "accurate" place. You must know that in 4000 BC there's 95% of the ground occupied with forest in the whole america, in the whole europe and in a big part of Asia... if you want I can make such a map but I didn't think it was really fun to play with such a map (some can think it is)
Other thing, I've got some issue for some terrains doesn't exist in the game. For example, I've decided to mix forest and plains to create savanna. Plains are mostly semi arid places, deserts are deserts, temperate and continental climate are mixes of grassland and forest. Tropical is a mix of grassland and jungle, Equatorial is pure jungle.

However, I'm posting messages because I want to hear some critics, so if you think there's not enough mountains here or there or in the whole map or whatever you want, I would be pleased to hear your advice about it :). So go on, I'm open. :D

Hello again, I am at home and I have seen your map. If you
want it in a single word: excellent :) When I have had a better look at it I will suggest you some minor geographical changes
and about the location of certain resources. Congrats on
your map and thanks for sharing it with us.

Would you consider to create a smaller version of it? That
would be fantastic for us who are afraid of endless games
in huge maps.

I love this map... its is the best I've seen. Very well though out. I changed one thing though I took out a chunk of turkey so there is only one land bridge from greece to turky so if someone decided to make a city of constantiople than they can use the black sea. other than that I haven't had enough time to really throughly go over it, but from what I see I love it.

(Since this post I have made a few more changes... it seemed like there were too many barbarian camps and not enough goodie huts... the goodie huts were only around the civs whuch seemed to discourage expantionist civs and exploration... so I lessed the barbarian camps by 33% or so... and addded some goodie huts where they might make sence (i.e. inca has both 3 barbarians and 3 goodie huts.)

hopefully I'll be back with some more helpful suggestions soon.

Next362, you're so right when you say that there's too many barbarian camps and not enough goody huts. I've tried to switch the balance to promote exploration especially in places where we wouldn't like to explore, such as Indonesia, Africa... I've posted my answer before so I won't repeat it. It's in the latest changes post. :)

Civilizator, I definitly agree about how much that game are eating our free and sleep time. I don't have anyway to make the map smaller easily, I've heard about utilities to do so, if someone know how to do that in 5 minutes, it would be great to post that version. :) I've reduced the tech rate from 300 to 200 so now game should be shorter. Actually, there's a lot of ocean in my map so it's not that big... well it's big but not that big. ;)

I would like also to thank Thunderfall who put my map in the main page !!! THANX ! I was so proud to see my map when I've just typed www.civfanatics.com :D

I swear I'll post less messages to let other people talk, but I can't think about anything else but that map for the moment, especially because I'll have to work hard for the university in next monthes so I wouldn't have as much time as now then.

One thing I've done is removed all the Barbarians from Aulstralia and replaced them with goodie huts only (ie since the aborigines never really resisted). but added barbarians in areas like mongolia/centeral asia where constant destructive invasions thru out history originated (Xiongnu[early mongols], Yue Qi, Kushans, Hunas, etc.) also in the Caucaus Mtn.s for the Huns, Alans, and other euro-asian invaders. personaly im trying to make the map balance to pose simular challanges to civ's in civ3 that a real one would have faced. also using barbarians to discourage exploration in some places like east russia, the congo, and amazon basin till later in the game seems like it might be a good idea.

thats it so far.
thanks for the cool map agian.

:goodjob: Great jon man this is a work of art Map i cant wait to play on it!

Thanks for the beautiful map.

i have one question though:
the 'coastal' tiles in the midst of the Atlantic Ocean, shouldn´t this be the deepest part of the ocean???

I'd agree on the coastal being used for the ridges. It certainly looks better, but traveling in that area is no less risky than any other place in the Atlantic. That area should still be a vast expanse of ocean that is treacherous to earlier vessals.

Actually, the mid-atlantic ridge is shallower than the ocean on either side, so in a sense the map as it stands is accurate. But since there is no semblance of depth in Civ3 it is probably better to put them as Sea tiles instead of Coast.

Also, it was the Atlantic that was crossed before the Pacific ever was (not counting the Bering Strait of course).

Hey everyone,

About ridges, according to History, we all agree about the fact that Christopher Colombus crossed the Atlantic Ocean in 1492 with a caravel exploring the west of the Açores. The wind makes him go more in south and he finally arrived in the caribbean islands. In Civ3, there's no wind that lead boat in special places, BUT, caravel can explore seas and not ocean. If we put "sea" instead of "ocean" for the ridges, it appears that a caravel can go in the carribean islands from Europe. So regarding history, it doesn't sound that unaccurate.
Now there's two issues. First, a trireme is enough to explore most of pacific islands... well, I haven't tried yet but I guess it's possible. We can always talk about melanesians who came from Australia to Hawaï using pirogues... but it's true that it's not very accurate. The main issue is that for future scenarios like world war 2, the battle of pacific needs these islands, and these islands have coasts that surround them due to the game.
Now about the deepest part of the ocean which is in my map coastal terrain. Well, the ridge goes out in the Atlantic ocean to form the island of Ascension between Africa and South America. I've just put more coasts to make the map look better and not for accurate reasons. so I guess, that's bad.

Anyway, to create a map, we must always balance three things:
1- The accuracy of real world in proportions and in terrain.
2- The accuracy of the gameplay that lead us to use same ways as in real history (for example, the ridge to make caravels go to the carribean or Spain separated from Morocco by seas even if in proportions, it should be connected).
3- The esthetic of the map (once again ridges but also tundra recovered by forest for Northern Canada or Siberia).

All my little change has been made for that balance cause it's the best way to have an accurate map, and that geographically, and historically.

Now, I've discoverered that an optimized number of cities at 32 pushes all civilizations to create their 32 cities... even if it's on Greenland or small islands surrounded by water in 2000 miles from the capital city. I guess the best would be to decrease the number of civilizations to play with... 16 sounds too much. Well That's your choice, play as you want ! :rolleyes:

have you made any mods to the original file yet? anything new? just as a personal request I'd love to see a european map from you... possibly including the medd. and north africa. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your maps the first was great. :goodjob:

Thanks Marla for what looks like the best world map posted.

I have one question. When I have tried playing on it I notice that, as with some other scenarios, the science tech tree is inoperative so that the player cannot direct the course of research. I have tried modifying your mod by going into the editor, selecting 'restore default rules' and saving your map as a new file. But even this fails to fix the tech tree problem. Is it possible to play on your brilliant map without the tech tree problem?

been clicking on the link and all I get is attachement.php file instead of Marla's .zip?

Is the link wrong or I'm going mad from civ sleepless nights here?

cheers, keep on goody work :)

edit: ok OIC, one has to rename it to .zip to extract.

you dont have to rename it, just associate it with WinZip (or whatever zip program u have) or if ur lazy just right clik and do open with :scan:

This is the best map so far.
Even if some of the islands is in the wrong place, it has to be that way if we are suppose to get any at all.
I am testing a game with this map, and even if I only has got to about 600ad and has not explored all the world, it is the best world map so far. I hope you will continue to do upgrades to the map.

Beautiful work :)

this is Civ3 at its finest.

Started playing in northern india, spread though persia to mesopotamia and small asia peninsula (almost like ancient Aryan culture). Discovered that there is no iron but on balkans or far china, so I had to replay hetites and take balkans too hehe.

Had to leave sturdy nile valley and africa in hands of persians, but my riders overtook whole of europe. Now they amass to take nortern middle asia, and if time allows, further reaches of china. This would leave all of eurasia in one civ's hands. One learns what it meant to be Ghenghis Khan heh.

One thing I noticed (might be breakage from other mods tho): the F6 tech tree is misplaced as far the arrows and techs go, so the tech to be researched can not be selected direct from the tree?

Marla, many thanks fer yer work!

I love the map. Really fantastic. Don't take it wrong if I focus on what I think are potential areas of improvement.

1) Too many resources. I'm playing the French, and I have Most of Central Europe, into Turkey, Isreal, Egypt, then down into northen and central Africa under my control. I now have 6 horses, 8 saltpeters, 6 incenses, 5 wines and 4 irons. It's overkill.

I would really like this aspect of the map if the AI were smarter about trading, but it doesn't recognize diminishing marginal value on resources. The Zulus occupy North America in my game, and they have 4 extra units of Fur, yet refuse to trade.

A lot of people are trying to lessen the importance of strategic resources to Civ 3 play, but I think it's a great new aspect of the game -- making geographic expansion and diplomatic relations much more critical. I'm not sure if I think you should remove some of them, but it's definitely something with could use some extra thought. I just wish the game supported putting oil resources on coastlines for offshore drilling. That would make the European oil race in the North Sea truly interesting (especially if you had to protect your coastline with a navy, a la the UK)

Oh, I do like the fact that Uranium is so scarce.

2) Jungle thickness is pretty out of hand. Again, I understand why you did this, but Civ3 has some pretty poor gameplay aspects to jungles in terms of lack of productivity. It would be nice if these were intersperced occassionally with some forests. It wouldn't change the look, but it would allow for those deep jungles to contain some useful tiles without mandating enormouse early-game clearing efforts. It's not like the Amazon Basin is without harvestable land -- look at all the stimulants (of both legal and illegal variety) that come from there!

3) I really think the Great Lakes are way too big. They're not meaningful in terms of game play in that location. Perhaps if you widened the St. Lawrence to be navigable with a canal city, then they'd be useful as naval depots. Otherwise, I think you can get the same effect of representing coastal resources in a lot less area, which should result in a more accurate opportunity to represent the Dallas - St. Louis - Chicago corridor.

4) If you are going to stick to your guns on the representation of strategic resources, then I think you've overestimated the scope of Mideast oil reserves. The Saudi deposit is much too rich, and you've left out Mexico, which is the second largest oil importer to the U.S. (Canada is the first, by the way, which is really only represented in the ANWR deposits you show.)

5) The representations of the Eurasian Seas -- again, I think they're all quite large. This was fun in Civ2, when you could build canal cities and bring Naval units in to pound the hell out of interior port cities. But in Civ3, that's an almost useless strategy since naval bombardments pretty much suck. So given that the fun aspect of this is taken out, providing a little more useful land in that richly populated area of the world might make sense.


A couple of other notes that aren't criticisms...

The number of rivers on your map is great for irrigation and trade bonuses, and I thank you for it. Interestingly, it has the side effect of making Engineering a much more important advance, since you need it for bridge building to get the road movement rate over rivers. I was surprised at how big a difference this made in my game.

I had no idea there were so many lakes in central/southern Africa.

I think you might have underrepresented Gold resources in North America. 1849 was a pretty important year for American development. :)


Again, magnificent work. I love the map.

Well downloading Marla's map I was surprised and appaled at how accurate it is terrain! How dare you create something so precise Marla. However for all its virtue's I must say I wasn't exactly in love with its resource setup which i found a little... overwhelming. However with a little point and click i've made a small modification of her Final map to a few small points. I in no way want to underscore Marla's map, infact quite the opposite, I want to see it become all it can be. So here it is with some info on the changes I made.

-Resources as I have said have been reduced all around. Ive reduced the resources by their strategic value and known positions and depth of sed designated resource. Bonus and Luxery were changed with about and strategic is where a more drastic change occured. Remeber that these resources simply dont represnt where ever you might find it, but rather a large concentration of that resource. I have tried to complete that without compromising the actual resource abilites of each region, which at times can be somewhat large, but lack of other strategic resources in those regions should balance it out.

-The jungle's worldwide have been suplimented with some forest squares to represent that some areas of dense jungle can still produce good food and shield production. Hopefully this will make for some interesting terrain fights in these regions over those more forest rich jungle regions in the ancient and medievel era.

-The forest in North Central Europe (Area of Germany) has been expanded slightly. This is only to represent what condition this area was at during ancient times. However I have capped this expansion heavily due to the constraints of required growth for this region. The Great Lakes have been reduced in size slightly as well. The cortez sea (Baja area of Mexico) has been turned into a proper sea.

Hopefully I cna make furhter modifications as critique's come in and I get a chance to try my own work. I would llike to thank Flynn for his post with some very nice points in it. However I would liek to extend I much larger thanbk you to Marla for creating this map which requires a lot of work and patience. Hopefully this will add a little flavor to your CivIII experience to make it that much more delicious. If not, well thanks for downloading it anyways.

Well, Flynn and Scipio, you were definitely right in most of your changes. I've posted in the readme file the changes between the 1.05 version and the version 1.08.

To go fast, ressources have been rethought, jungle has been mixed with forests and lakes size has been decreased.
However, I'm not for using great interior seas and lakes with boats. I like the idea of canal cities - that's why there's only 1 tile in Suez and Panama Canals places - But definitely not for the Caspian Sea, the Victoria Lake or even worse, the Baïkal Lake !

Well, that's I think the only point I've rejected about Flynn's requests. I totally agree about ressources.

Now about new maps.
I don't have the time right now to do new maps, I have a lot of work for the university so I'm sorry but I won't be able to create a new one before christmas. The next would certainly be Europe.
However, I can post my old civ2 maps but it would be a lot less interesting since there's civ3 !

Finally about the tech tree. :mad:
I'm mad ! Well it doesn't work because the map size have been edited obviously (It's 204x256). So, we can make the tech tree available if we decrease the number of civ to 8 and if we restore rules. BUT ! restoring rules make the optimized number of cities at a level of 8 ! (which sucks quite a bit).

:eek: bye people !:lol:

Congratulation Marla !
Your map is excellent !
I've done a game through 1400 AD. I'm born in America and after I've conquered the aztecs and the iroquois, I've settled a great Empire that goes from Alaska to Brazil. When I've put intensive efforts in razing this bloody jungle, I've been surprised by an invasion of bloody germans who invaded all Europe (not surprised by them :p). So for now, I'm fighting in a great battle of the Atlantic with my ironclads destroying its galleon filled of cavalry.
:) Thanx Again !

Comments on oil: It would be almost impossible to overstate the proven oil reserves under the Arabian peninsula, Iraq and Iran as far as this game is concerned. Also, there should be one oil resource in central Romania. A lot of other places have oil, too, but few that have not already had markers placed. I have not had a chance to look at the Indonesian islands but will do so soon.

solops
History nut in the oil industry for 26 years

When I saw this map, I was soooo thrilled (I've just Civ3, and I can't wait to play on Earth). But for some reason, when I start (as the English), both times, I ended up in the same spot, next to the Indians. What have I done wrong? *sigh* Being a newbie sucks.

Originally posted by IceCascades
When I saw this map, I was soooo thrilled (I've just Civ3, and I can't wait to play on Earth). But for some reason, when I start (as the English), both times, I ended up in the same spot, next to the Indians. What have I done wrong? *sigh* Being a newbie sucks.
That is because the BIC-formap doesn't support to assign Civs to the starting locations. To play at the right spots do as follows:

1. Download Civ3CopyTool (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7787) v0.75.1 (or later)
2. Extract it somewhere
3. Start a game as you want to play it.
4. Save the game
5. Alt+Tab out of Civ3
6. Run Civ3CopyTool.exe /sge to start the SaveGame Editor
7. Select File-Load and load your savegame
8. Select File-Load Starting Positons and locate and open "marla.cpf" in the directory of Civ3CopyTool
9. Select a name to save the modified Game to
10. Wait for a popup.
11. Terminate the editor
12. Return to Civ3 and load the Game you saved.

Thanks so much.

Your editor ROCKS !!!! :goodjob:

It is so simple to use !!!! And we can finally play with civilizations in the right locations !!!
I would like to add it to the zipfile of the map so that everyone could easily play with civilizations in the right locations. Do you feel any opposition about it? can I do so? do you think it's a good idea?
Well please answer FAST !!!
:crazyeyes

Plz include it in the zip :) I would like to play the world map on the right location :)

This is a great, detailed map. There are a couple of flaws though. First, north of Canada should not be navigable. The easiest route between Japan and England for example, is through the Berring straight, through the Canadian islands to Greenland, to Iceland, to England. The only good way to do this would be to crop the top of the map so that the polar caps are lower, which isn't really a good option, so I can live with it.

One odity is that because Paris, London, and Berlin are so close together, the AI won't found a city near Amsterdam - wasting a few very nice squares. This might be tweakable. It looks like Paris should be a bit farther north, which could fix it.

The scale is correct when you look at the minimap, but the perspective in this game isn't square making distances on this map east to west closer than they should be when compared to north-south distance. I finally realized this when cities in south india are so far from Delhi, that they're completely corrupt, while cities to the east toward siam are semi-productive. (In real life the south tip of India is closer) Just more of a note for future map makers attemping realistic maps. I started a map of Europe, but using the correct east-west to north-south scaling made the map so screwed as to not be very recognizable, so I compromised.

At higher difficulty, India has the best starting location imo. Incense, Spice, and Ivory are very close to Dehli and with only a little work, Dye and Silk are within range as well. Luxuries are a huge boon to keeping cities productive. A colony city in the himilayas will get you gems as well. On the downside, iron is a problem for India, which is a good balance imo.

On the other side we have North America where all you have is furs. The only other luxury to hope for early on is dye in Florida. Even a single wine in California would be nice.

The worst starting location seems to be Zululand. There is little on the way of food squares near the city and by the time the AI founds its second city, most other start locations already have 3-5. Perhaps a single wheat or cattle within the 8 start squares would be in order.

One thing I find quite humerous is all the European civs building distant colony cites in Russia.

Overall, this is a very nice map and other mapmakers will have a hard time living up to this standard of quality and detail.

I'm having the best time playing this. As the English, after colonising all the UK and Ireland, and a couple of Meditterannean islands, I've jumped down into North Africa in a colonising spree. :) This map is more fun than the standard game! :)

Allow me to once again sing the praises of Marla's map. (pun intended) I'm enjoying my current game on it (as the French, starting in Italy and now controlling all of Europe, North Africa and most of the Middle East) so much that I want to buy her dinner.

Alas, she's probably either married or lives in Spokane, WA. Still if she wants to reach me on ICQ# 68212643, I'll keep an eye out. ;)

can u put more coal and iron on ur map im stuck in africa and i cant make railroads

Hey Malrla, (in awe)
I have a couple of requests, firstly, can I update my mod with your map? And secondly, I need a map of the Americas for an idea I have for a mod... It would have to stretch from about 15 degrees south to about 75 degrees north and from about 30 degrees west to about 165 degrees west. It would be for 8-10 civs.
I ask you because your world map is just sooooooo perfect.

some iron ,some iron, my kingdom for some iron. this map is an absolute joy BUT i started in russia as the persians everything was going well until i discoved iron making and found that i missed some by one tile, no problem thought i there must be some more to the east and south. so i colonised across the top of the black sea around the caspian and down toward india. alas no iron. by this stage i decided to fight for it but the russian swordsman made mincemeat of my puny archers and spearmen and before i knew it i was in full retreat and my capital was in enemy hands:eek: . you dont know how frustrating it is to be the persians and not be able to build immortals. so i started agian this time in northern india. WOW what a start, luxuries everywhere, this will do i thought but again no iron, where abouts in this most wonderful map will i find that precious iron.:(

Hey, well, there's no iron everywhere to make of trading something useful. Iron is mainly in Europe, canada/US, China, Japan, Australia/NZ, Western Africa, Chile. Don't say there's no iron !

That's the same for coal or horses... or everything. At the beginning there were tons of ressources on my map and people advised me the reduce it. I think it was a good idea cause it forces people to trade. There's 24 irons on the map: 12 on Asia/Europe/Africa with 13 starting civilizations there. If you're the last one, invade quickly Australia or meet american people.

Just a tip: usually, when you want to make the war against someone, don't hesitate to make of another an ally, trade with him iron, horses, rubber or aluminium. Do that even if you have to pay an over-exagerated price, it's better than to lose. I've discovered lately it's a lot easier to invade someone if we are helped with others.

Well, anyway, I didn't realized they were only 12 irons in Eurasia/Africa for thirteen civs. When we think about the fact that some of them always disappear, we understand i need maybe to add some more. I'll check that.

So my answer: To give to everyone iron, coal and horses: NO. To add some strategic ressources in the case some civilizations can't obtain it because there's not enough: YES.

Marla, yes iron does dissapear, but it also appears out of nowwhere as well, so you have a good amount as it is.

whoa, dont get me wrong i think its great that not every starting point gets everything they need i never said that there was no iron, just that i couldn't reach it. its a fine history lesson to see what happens to a civ once a new tech is not only discovered but utilised. (i think i was most upset only because i couldn't use my uber unit) i personally think the map is fine as is. i shouldn't have been so gun ho and attacked mother russia but instead traded with the english for some iron (at a loss if need be) then thought about conquest. my post was not a critisism but a lament. please keep up the good work marla, now that i have used your map and the correct starting position tool CIV3 is the game it should have shipped as.:goodjob:

I find myself anticipating where the resources are even before I have the tech. Because I'm familiar with the general geography of the planet earth, it's pretty easy to know that if I want, say, oil, there are four or five areas of the map I'd better control when the time comes. :)

Yeah, I'm the same...

Alas, I suck...so I haven't even managed to reach the modern age yet...

Hey all

Well im a little fickle and gameplay for me gets dry after playing the same old thing, but I just love Earth replica maps. So here's another modification of Marla's map (let's all stop to give her a hand again) with a little more wide ranging modifications that I think add to the realism of the map, and the fun of the game.

So here's what I did and I hope it's an improvement. Like I said before this isn't to underscore what Marla did in anyway, simply a way to build upon something that was already fantastic.


Modifications in Edition 2

1a. Gold has been added to the Spanish area. This is due to large silver and gold mines here doing the entire Ancient era. This is why Spain had to look for it elsewhere during the later ages.

1b. Gold has been added to Central America. The Aztecs were rich in gold until their demise and even after, this region was heavily mined.

1c. Gold has been added to Central Europe due to the fact that some mining was done in the North Alps and Europe has been otherwise without gold.

1d. South American gold near the region of Peru has been enriched. This is because of the immense wealth of the Incan's in this region.


2. Horses have been expanded quite significantly in Europe, The Far East, Turkey/Arabia area, and slightly in Northern Africa. This is simply because they were very numerous in all these regions in Ancient and Medievel times. After that it was a matter of breeding and stables and not actual wild horses.


3a. The Himalayas Mountain range has been expanded slightly to better represent the actual magnitude of this chain. More mountains have been placed at its forefront in India due to the size of these mountains, and it has been expanded in size, mainly through hills, on its wings as I found them a bit lacking.

3b. The Hindu Kush range immediatly west of the Himalayas has been increased in size slightly. This is a fairly large range and I considered them to be under represented.

3c. The Yablonovy range starting in central Asia and pushing up through Siberia to the Pacific ocean has been expanded by great bounds. This is a very rough and large range and it was far to small in my opinion. This should lessen the amount of highly colonizable terrain in Asia but not by intense means. Hopefully this will balance the expansion of Eastern states so they dont actually make contact with Europe till much later then 3000 B.C. :)

3d. The area around Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan has been made rougher as well. I enlarged this range, called the Plateau Opiran, due to its rockiness.

3e. The Atlas mountains in Northern Africa have also been enlarged slightly. It was a bit larger in my opinion.

3f. Lastly the Brooks range in Northern Alaska has been expanded since it pushed farther north then on the map.


4. India had to nice of region being far to close to the luxery resources available. Thus I have pushed the Dyes and Silks in the Burma area further east, and also removed the incense from this region simply for more balance.


5. I've also added the Great Indian Desert where it edges the Indus River in the west area of India. The plains here have also been pushed farther south.


6. The Arabian Peninsula has been reduced in size slightly only to account for the length of the Pakistan and Iranian region which was quite short. The hills on its south west edge have also been reduced.


7a. I have lessened the amount of Uranium in N. America to two for strategic reasons.

7b. Oil has been put in North Canada simply because of one large well they have on the Peninsula D'ungava. Oil in Alaska has been shuffled to regions where it has higher quantities.


8. Oil has been added near the Caspian Sea due to the large oil fields there. A little bit north west I have added coal because the great coal mines begun there by Stalin that continue to produce large amounts.


9. Ive added more Saltpeter to East Asia due to the amount they have used through the centuries on not only weapons but fireworks.


10.Increased the amount of Fish around Japan since it has always been (since they opened their shores) one of the largest producers of seafood in the world.


11a. The tundra has been pushed further south on Canada's East coast area, and further north in the area around the Rocky Mountains to the West.

11b. Jungle has been added to the mouth of the Mississippi River due to the swamps present there.


12. Desert has been placed lightly in a few regions due to the arid climates in the Iranian and Central Mexican zones. However these are only one or two squares simply to represent how dry it is.


Thats the extent of the changes in Edition 2 of Marla's Map, Scipio mod. All these changes were implemented to lessen the amount of good colonizable zones as I found them to be to abundent, especially in the southern and central Asia zones. And further more to increase the realism of some of the areas as I got caught up in reading an Atlas or two. The last Edition was simply to make it so that resources were more strategic and realistic just for a recap. I hope this increases your gameplay and once again would like to thank Marla for putting in the more significant effort of all.

--------------------------
Yowl!

Scipio Africanu

There's really smart changes in your mod, you got really a lot of good points in here.
I'm working right now on a 1.10 version of the map. I've already added more city names, and other changes, I would be pleased if I could add some of your improvements on that version too. Can I have your agreement please? :crazyeyes

By the way, I'm thinking about adding incense in Japan, only because on the other front china has the advantage of silk so it was to balance a little more.
What do you think about it ?

I have no problem if you go with some of my modifications in your new version, infact it would be more of an honor :). Just as I have taken the liberty to modify your map your shouldn't worry about using some of the modifications in your own newer versions. No need to ask :)

What is happening here is wonderful and never seen before : pepole of the whole world working together echanging clever and accurates advices to improve the work of Marla and build the best interactive map of the earth !!!
When I made a map for Civ 2 two years ago I think i was the only player who don't like to play on thoses ugly random map !!
Thanks for that good job. I m happy that Flynn had tested the map starting from France .... waiting for realese date in France ....and the marla's map next version !! Men, we are working for History .
Salut et Fraternité

The Zip attached below contain's Marla's 1.085 Map and Mortioso's CivBreed 0.45 Utility.

INSTRUCTIONS

1. Extract files to your Civilization directory
2. Start new scenario game with Marla's Map
3. Save game as "FIX.SAV"
4. Run the file "RUN_THIS.BAT" in your saves directory
5. Load up "FIXED.SAV"
6. Play!

My apologies to Gramphos I crawled all over your Civ3CopyTool thread, installed numerous VB runtimes and OCX files and it still would not work on my XP system so I decided to find a better way

EDIT: Removed... see top of this thread for the latest version

So, what has been changed in that version ?

improvements from 1.08 to 1.10

- Several changes proposed by Scipio Africanu has been added:
o Desert in western india is now on the map.
o Mountains on eastern Siberia has been improved for more accuracy and in the same way to avoid asian civilizations to settle great cities there.
o Same thing with northern Alaska.
o Gold has been added near Tenochtitlan and in the former Inca territory.

- Iroquois starting location:
o It has been put one tile more on the north to not "eat" Washington area (changes in marla.cpf to have iroquois correct starting locations has also been made).
o Canada's great lakes region has been improved cause iroquois were too disadvantaged compared to americans.

- More city names have been added, some Leaders have been changed (thanx to Sevorak and Iamchinese).

- The readme has been remade to be clearer and to regroup all little files in only one (except marla.cpf).

- Patagonia has been improved.
- Frazer River has been added and other changes from LotC in ressources has been made.
- Other smaller changes has been made with ressources and terrain.

Attached below is my unofficial v1.11 of Marla's Map

Similar idea to v1.09 above. This is the same Map as Marla's v1.10 but the player start positions are corrected using Civ3Breed not Civ3CopyTool due to the fact that Civ3CopyTool requires a frighteningly large amout of extra Visual Basic files before it will work!

I've rewritten Marla's Read-me file with new instructions correcting player start locations and also optimized the pictures to save size, in all I've shaved 109K off the size of the zip!

EDIT: Removed... see top of this thread for the latest version

I've tested your way to put locations (using civbreed)

Ok, the thing you haven't explained is that we must create folders to make it work:
1- Inside the Civ3 folder, we must create a folder called: EXTRAS
2- Inside the Extras folder, we must create two folders: MARLAMAP and CIVBREED

After, we must put each files in the good folder:
1- Civbreed and its readme in the CIVBREED folder
2- Marlamap.c3b in the MARLAMAP folder
3- run_this.bat in the SAVES folder
4- Marla.bic and its readme in the SCENARIOS folder

Ok, then, everything seems to work well.
I think there's a way to create a file where you just have to click on it to create automatically folders and put the right files in there... I think it would be smart to apply this (if it's possible)

For now, I'm sorry but I'll remain on the copytool... I'll certainly put a link to your file in the readme for people who doesn't succeed to make Copy Tool works. But I advise you to write in the readme file that story about folders, cause it took me a bit time to understand it (ok, I hate dos.... I'm not a programmer!)

Thanx again for your efforts and your support... The readme file you've made looks great even if Marla Singer is really written big on it !
Thanx by the way to correct my mistakes !!! :)

Please send me mails for further developpements:
marla_singer_13@yahoo.com

Marla - I don't know what zip program your using but my WinZip creates the above folders and extracts the files into them automatically.

I'll be posting a new version of this soon which will be a self-extractor/installer.

When it comes to map's you are the King :king: Marla, any news on the possible Europe map??? Come to think about it, has anyone else on these Forums discussed what 16 Civ's should be included in Europe. At a basic level it should be possible to rename the non-european civ's to give us 10 extra civ's for Europe!!! :eek:

Marla, I love your map. 1.08. The updates look interesting, but I need to win this civ first.

I could not get the copy tool to work, so started with the random location given me. North America. Could be worse :-)

The only real problem I have is luxuries. This is not a complaint, and I have read the thread, and the comments about placements. AFAIK the placements are historically and realistically accurate.

However, it makes for a difficult game. The Eguptians have every one. Some they conquered... but they are reasonably close to their location.
I had one. I traded with France for a second--dyes. But for millenia, there was no ocean trade Even after I sent a Trireme down their coasts to announce myself to the world, they made colonies in the tundra, but had no harbors, so no trade. Is there any logical way -- outside of playing Egypt -- to fiddle with this?

Vonotar
Yup, I downloaded it and it works for me as described.
I've been away from Civ3 for a while now, mostly because of annoying pre-patch bugs (i.e. messed up tech tree, snail scroll etc). I'm happy to see that CivBreed still works after the 1.16f patch. Now I'm off to play this baby without all those problems.

Keep up the good work everyone!

I've removed this due to the fact that It only works on some NT based system. Look further below for information about v1.13

I downloaded your versin Vonotar and it didn't work. When it ran the .bat file at the end I just got a lot of file not found messages.

My copy of C3 is in the default C3 dir. Did I miss a step? Was I suppose to have anything else intalled before running this? It didn't even put the icons on my desktop.

Endureth

Yes it seems I was a bit lax in assuming that because it works on my XP system it would work everywhere else. So I've removed v1.12 until I can solve the problems, when I've fixed it I will re-post as v1.13 (at the rate I'm going we will run out of 1.XX numbers soon!! :lol: )

I'd like to make some suggestions for the next version.

After starting the game with Marla's map, there were some issues about the AI's expansion that didn't seem right. Russia didn't really expand at all, too much snow. I think some sort of comprimise between the real world and a game world must be made and some realism must be sacrificed in order to balance out the map. Even Greece was quickly occupying Russian prime land. I would move Russia's starting location a little more to the east and give her some more hill areas so she'd have more production potential.

Britian needs to be bigger. She was only able to found three cities on her main island. Seeing as how she needed to produce three items (settlers, warriors and galleys) in order to expand, her lack of growth at home seriously stopped her progress. I would suggest slightly exagerating England's true size (especially the southwestern pennisilla and all of Scotland). She should be able to pump out more galleys and expand more historically. A 25% cut in Galley price seems fair for England as well.

Greece went pretty wild on the expansion route. Once he founded turkey he shot right into Russia and then he showed up in Africa at the same time as England, severly stunting both Russia and England's growth. I think Greece's expansion problems would be solved by implementing the above two changes.

If you really want to low down the growth of everyone so the world isn't completely colonized before 400's you might want to up the price of settlers for everyone except Russia and England by UP TO 100%. Changing the rate of growth of certain other civs can be a good way to control the speed of their expansion as well.

This is a major change. Why not connect the top parts of the world to the top of the map. While not realistic at all, it will greatly help keep the computer where he is suppose to be during the game. Giving him the option to expand north not only stops him from expanding where he should but slows his growth other less important place (he shouldn't be trying to colonize Asia and North America FROM the North Pole).

If the North Pole was expanded to stretch the top, then Europe and North America could be stretched out just a little more. This gives room for a larger England also and a more noticable and playable Quebec.

I've been playing as Germany so my observations are from that standpoint. I'll keep an eye on the other countries now and add more comments as the game goes on, but these are some suggestions you might want to consider for the next version. I hope you agree with them.

I'd like to get in on a team to help make a good balanced world map.

Endureth

Originally posted by Endureth
After starting the game with Marla's map, there were some issues about the AI's expansion that didn't seem right. Russia didn't really expand at all, too much snow.Agreed, are these areas covered with snow all year round? If not then perhaps the tundra should be more patchyI would move Russia's starting location a little more to the east .......Britian needs to be bigger........especially....ScotlandI couldn't disagree more! I've seen some maps where the UK has been made disproportionally bigger and it just doesn't look right. If you make the UK bigger it starts to look like a small continent between Greenland and Europe, as it is I think Iceland is slightly too bigIf the North Pole was expanded to stretch the top, then Europe and North America could be stretched out just a little more. This gives room for a larger England also and a more noticable and playable Quebec.No, no, no please no! It's the fact that Marla's Map is correctly proportioned that makes it so good.

The UK looks just right at the moment, and I live here so I should know :D
Below is how I layout my cities when playing the English

http://www.lastlands.org/civ3/uk.jpg

Okay, Naval B is the shetland islands and Naval A is the Faroe Islands.
I'll move the Faroe Islands one tile more on the north by the way, it should be in the middle between Iceland and Scotland.

Okay, British Isles are already bigger than what they should be. You can see that easily, it's almost bigger than France on the map when in reality it's only the half of French territory.

Rome, England, France, Germany, that's all hard locations to start. I don't see any reason to make England bigger and not Italy... But, the idea of cheaper trirem (maybe to every boats) for England and more expensive settler for everyone is definitely a good idea.
AI's civs lay more settlers than the queen of bees. When I captured Rome, they were 3 settlers in it ! (well I was happy, that makes 6 free workers but still !)

:nuke: I would really like if people can send on my email there saved games (the most advanced as possible would be perfect :crazyeyes ), it would help me a lot to see what works and what didn't.

Once again, I'm really happy people give time to improve the map. Thanx again to everyone :)
Email: marla_singer_13@yahoo.com

Well, I wanted to start as England, and did. But was unable to make the switch to historical locations, so just accepted North America. Eliminated the French. Zulu started on England, and had no trouble expanding to Iceland, Greenland, and beyond.

The only problem I have is the distribution of resources and luxuries. Egypt got it all, and I have had to struggle for mine. It is historical, but... :rolleyes:

OK, I think I've finally cracked it!

Firstly I should point out that the Map included in this package is identical to Marla's v1.10. The difference is I've now added a proper installation routine. This has been tested on Windows 95/98 & XP.

Download the attachment below, it's a zip with one single file inside. I had to zip the file since I can't post .exe's direct to the forum. Extract the file (to anywhere) and run it. The installation will ask for your Civilization III directory and then install itself.

Once it is installed you will have a new folder in your Start Menu called “Marla Singer’s Scenarios”. In this will be two shortcuts, one is the Read-me file (Word format), the other shortcut is the tool for correcting player locations

This version automatically uninstalls versions 1.09 1.11 & 1.12 (all of which were my messes). It doesn’t uninstall any of Marla’s official versions.

As before, start a game like normal with Marla's Map. Save it straight away as FIX.SAV, then run the player location tool off the start menu (you don't need to quit Civ3). Once the tool has finished load up FIXED.SAV in Civilization, and that's it!

Email me at aloisia-vonotar@lastlands.org with your comments (complaints) and that will help me to produce a better product.

Hope you find this straight-forward and easy to use. Happy Civing!

Aloisia Vonotar

UPDATE: v1.13 Goes Official!! Download it now from page one of this thread!

Many Thanx Vonotar, everything works fine. I've put it on the first page of the map.

Now we'll finally be able to talk again about ressources and terrains allocation :)

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Many Thanx Vonotar, everything works fine. I've put it on the first page of the map.
:blush: Thanx, I'll leave it to you to update the forums on Apolyton, every time I try to go there I get 'page not found' errors :confused:

This is Marla's map v1.10 with some changes. I talked about this in a previous post but wanted to actually make the changes and put it up for review so you could see exactly what I meant. I think it turned out pretty well.

My goal was to make Europe a little more playable and have some more "personality" without straying far from the realistic layout of the world. I increased the size of all of Europe based on this map I grabbed off the net (see pic). The only thing about Europe I did not increase was the size of Britian (Britian is actually a lot more true to size now).

I keeped (to the best of my ability) the exact same resource Marla had in her original Europe so and touched up the top of italy and southern France.

You can actually see Normandy Beach. Denmark is a little larger, Iceland has been scooted a little more out to sea and Greenland has been moved further north and fattened a little. The size of Finland/Norway has been greatly increased and the area around Moscow is more friendly to Russia's growth.

Although I haven't playtested this yet, Rome, Germany, France and Greece have a little more room to play which should make a big difference if you're actually playing one of those Civ's.

There are a couple of observations I made though. When looking at the mini map and the end game map, Europe does look "slightly" too large but when you're actually playing the game looking at the terrain everything looks great.

Let me know what you think. Below is a picture of the map I used and the next post is a picture of the map. Notice how big Finland Norway actually is and how far Russia comes over. This gave Russia a lot more room.

I can E-mail it to both Marla and Vonotar if you'd like so you can look at it up close. It's pretty sweet. Just let me know and I'll mail it to you both.

Endureth

Here is what it looks like..

Thanx Endureth for your changes, you could put it on the thread so that everyone who wants to test it can do so.
I haven't seen your changes already but I want to apologize about the fact that nothing changed on the map between the 1.10 and the 1.13 version.

It's just that on last days we tried to make the way to put correct starting locations more user friendly. (well "we"... Vonotar did all)
That's why I haven't changed nothing on the map during that time.

But now as everything works, we will finally debate about the map properly again. :)

Go back soon... will check your change ;)

Well It's my fault that it took me 4 version numbers (including two versions of 1.12) to get the installation working on all versions of Windows. I'm sure that while I've been driving everybody up the wall with that, Marla has been testing possible alterations to the Map.

In the future new releases will be something of a joint effort, Marla will continue her excellent work with the Map and I'll look after packaging it up as a self extractor. All future new versions will be available at the top of this thread and will all be self extracting/installing.

So continue directing you ideas and comments about the Map to Marla, but feel free to let me know if you encounter any problems with the installation.

Yes I had to edit this..... I never get anything right first time!!! lol

This is what I've done to the map so far. Mostly just the Europe stuff.

I'm sure it needs some work as far as resources go but I'll let you all descuss that. Marla, if you like this you can make it a part of what you've already done.

I think africa could be shifted south some and there area where the USA and Canada meet could be fattened a little also. I plan on seeing how I could do that next.

The main reason I want to help is because I plan on making some WWII and other battles once a scenario editor is available and I want a really good map for it.

Endureth

Oh yeah, and I want to widened the mediterrainian a little on the southeastern end.

Forgot the file.

Originally posted by Hastus
Everytime I open the readme file my wordpad locks up and I get a fun message like this :

EAX=00000001 CS=015f EIP=0140f6d5 EFLGS=00010206.......

Anyone else having this problem or do I need to fry my computer?


That's pretty!

No, being serious I think the problem is that your Wordpad is not able to read Word 97+ files, either that or you do need to "fry your computer". The next version will have the Read-me in Html format, the logic being that if you have downloaded a Map from here you must therefore have a browser installed!

Instructions (for those who can't read the Read-me)

1 - Install “Marla Singer’s World Map for Civilization III” by double-clicking on the install file.
2 - Open Civilization III, select “load scenario” and choose Marla’s World Map.
3 - Choose your options on how you want to play like you normally would.
4 - Launch your game and save straight away as “FIX.SAV” without founding any cities.
5 - On your Start Menu click “Correct Start Positions for World Map” (you don’t need to quit Civ3).
6 - Now load the newly created save game “FIXED.SAV”.
7 - All player positions are now correct, now all you have to do now is play!

Hope this helps

Vonotar

May I suggest that you still inclede the CPF-file, as people might want to play with the FOW right (and not just Civ2 default).

The CPF isn't big.

how large is this map?
I want a world map as huge as possible
so it can contains more detail and be more accurate to the real world

how large is this map?

It's very, very, very big. It's the largest, most accurate world map I've seen yet. With all the tweaking still going on it's gonna get even better.

Endureth

Originally posted by Gramphos
May I suggest that you still inclede the CPF-file, as people might want to play with the FOW right (and not just Civ2 default).

The CPF isn't big.
Next release will have your CPT tool included (assuming you have no objections) now that I've worked out how to integrate it into the rest of the package

Aloisia Vonotar

Hi!

I've downloaded the latest version 1.13 and found it to be the BEST map I've seen so far. I do have one bug, however, that is I could not change my research que or change item to be researched. When I go to the Research Advisor Screen (F6?), I can not change my current research item to others nor can I qued up any research. My mouse button simply don't work in that screen. Please help!

p.s. I am running v1.07f and on Win XP. Thanks

You need the patch, it's a Firaxis Bug *ahem* I mean Feature!

Hi V!

Do you mean I need to get yet another new patch? Is there a newer one than v1.07f? Thanks!

v1.07f is the version number for the original released game, the patch is 1.16f *grin*

Thanks V!

I'll give it a try! :crazyeyes

Hi Marla

I just read this post and all the positive responses that tou world map received.

But I have kind of lost myself here and I don't know exactly where to download the last updated version of your earth map.

Could you please send it to me to switzerland? of course by email: weberstyle@hotmail.com

thank you so much.

ps: i have winxp. does this work too?

The latest version is always in the first post of this thread and works fine with XP. In fact the installation was actually designed on XP and then tweaked to work on Windows 9X systems.

If anybody hasn't downloaded the patch yet you will need to in order for the science advisor to work properly.

1.16f patch - http://www.civ3.com/patch/Civ3v116f.exe

I can not change my technology development que!! Do I have to update my civ with patch? Are there any other solutions??

damn! i've been working for hours and hours on the very same world map project (256x256), which is now 60% complete. but when i see the picture of marla's map i think i'll never be able to match this achievement.

trouble is i can't download it, neither from apolyton nor civfanatics without getting an error message in the end. am i the only one with this problem?

(t)

The issue is solvable, here is the Firaxis patch you should download:

http://www.civ3.com/patch/Civ3v116f.exe

PS: If other people have the same issue as Tim, they must post a message in here or send a mail:
vonotar@lastlands.org
marla_singer_13@yahoo.com

I would like to know if it's a specific or a generalized problem.

i've got the patch installed when it came out, but that doesn't seem to help. maybe i should try to download the file at home (i'm still at work now - i don't just play all night, i also play at work when i've got some spare time :D )

Fine work !! I haven't got it all uncovered in a game yet, but it is a lot of fun.

Question. It said in the auto install, I think, that it would change some files. If I don't play the map, the game will run "stock", right?

The only things that the self extractor remove are older versions of the map (this map, "marla's" map, not the original or any other map). It's just because Vonotar didn't want everyone to get a messy civ folder. So it doesn't affect at all Civ3.

What installs exactly the self extractor:
- the map in the scenario folder
- an extra folder where every files needed for starting locations are put (the civbreed utility that change unit positions, the map and its readme, the utility to install shortcuts to the start menu)

Vonotar made everything on his possible to make the thing as easiest as possible.

Thank you for your fast reply. My readme won't open, but I see Vonotar is working on that part as well and I did see his post on what is in it. I think it so great when people can get together to do things for the game, warms my heart :)

My problem appears to be some kind of conflict with my computer at work. i tried to download & install the map on my good ol' rusty P200 at home, and it all worked out fine (albeit really slow!)

thnx for the support anyway, i'll let you know if there are still any improvements possible (now who's the arrogant one :p )

(t)

hello marla.
wohooo what a map...
but since I don't have the time to play on that H U G E map, couldn't you convert it to /make a smaller one?

thanks

Attached below is an updated version of the Read-me now in HTML form, the logic being that while not everybody has Micro$oft Word they must all have a browser otherwise how did they find this forum :crazyeyes

Very little new information is in the Read-me, but I have taken the opportunity to re-vamp and re-arrange a few things, especially since when I tried to get Word to save in HTML the new document was only readable in IE6 (I wonder why:rolleyes: )

These files have been tested with IE6 and Opera6, I don't have Netscape, but I can't see Netscape people having any problems if it works with Opera. All the documentation was written on Frontpage Express 2 which is at least 4 years old so if your browser can't cope then it must be a truly ancient browser :lol:

Comments to the usual address plze: vonotar@lastlands.org

Attachment Remove, now available online (see further down forum)

Is there a way to play with historical starting locations on this map?

Sorry if this has already been asked :cool:

Originally posted by FieldChiefJudge
Is there a way to play with historical starting locations on this map?
Yup, it's all included in the package!

Vonotar

Great map. But if you plan to play as an European civ then it gets really crowded. I played the Germans, and i was surrounded by the Romans, greeks, english, russians, and french.
So China and India had a big advantage because they have tons of land to build their cities on.

Otherwise its a great map. A bit big, but still really good:D :egypt:

"God has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Final Earth Map - in the User-created Maps forum of Civilization Fanatics' Forums."

Did anyone else find this as amusing as I did?:egypt:

Originally posted by God
Great map. But if you plan to play as an European civ then it gets really crowded. I played the Germans, and i was surrounded by the Romans, greeks, english, russians, and french.
So China and India had a big advantage because they have tons of land to build their cities on.
Well Firaxis chose to have six Civ's in little europe, and you chose to have all 16 civ's in the same so......

Being serious, Europe is a challenge but I don't subscribe to the idea that every Civ should be of equal difficulty. I know that's what some people believe should be the case but if this was possible it would surely result in a game where every civ progresses at the same rate and all end up with 1/16 of the Earths land surface..... not very realistic!

Anyway thanks for the praise God, I suppose you have been innundated with prayers asking you to use you divine influence to get Firaxis to issue more patchs, MP, and Scenario Tools :lol:

Originally posted by God
Great map. But if you plan to play as an European civ then it gets really crowded.
Now you know why there has always been so much conflict in Europe. :soldier:
I played the Germans, and i was surrounded by the Romans, greeks, english, russians, and french.
You could try playing without all 16 civilizations. I personally prefer to keep games between civilizations that have historical connections. Rome, Greece and Egypt, but not generally with France and England as well, for example. Also, nothing against Americans but I don't tend to play games with them included. A quasi US / Canada / Mexico (..etc..) can still emerge if European powers are able to smash Iroquoi and Aztec defence.
So China and India had a big advantage because they have tons of land to build their cities on.
On our Earth, both these Civilizations have now matured into rather large countries, you'll find. They may not quite yet be fully "up with" the global scene, but it's on it's way. People who're more knowledgeable about this topic might like to correct me here somewhat.
Otherwise its a great map. A bit big, but still really good
I'm about to give the latest version another go, especially now they're saying we can correct Civilization starting locations. Many thanks to the developers of this ability. I'll report back to you on my results!

Ash

ok, so as it is now, here is what I may change:
- I think about putting mountains on greenland, even if it's weird, it could be a great idea to avoid the AI to settle there. (AI settles EVERYWHERE !). It would certainly avoid brits to go use their time to install cities on it.
- I'll put less grassland on western Africa coast (Guina Gulf coast), so that Egypt will have less an advantage, but it would be hard to avoid it...
- I'll test a game with settlers twice more expensive; brits and japan trirem less expensive (maybe discoverable sooner for them?).
- Gold will be removed of northern Tibet mountains and I'll also study changes from Lenius. For example, the horse on the iroquois capital city is an awful dilemna to me.

I will need some time to test these changes, if you give your advices whether it looks good or bad, you will help a lot. :)

After that, I guess I'll let the map as it will be. People could still continue to post their alternate versions (even on new thread if it's enormous changes) but I won't change it by myself.

If changes are ultimately and undoubtadly better than the original version, I'll post it as the map (with of course the editor name in the credits in HUGE!) ;)

Thanx again to everyone

Thanks for this map. :goodjob:

Sometimes I like to explore random worlds, but really like to work the known world. I did not relocate nations, since that adds some randomness... So i am English on the american continent. Lack of horses was no real problem. Cavalry is a great unit, but as it happens, I didnt need it during its heyday. Traded for horses twice, and have a few units, which are handy.
However, I wonder, in the interest of the game vs reality.
Since the Iroquois' special unit is mounted, and he is not likely to have contact with other civs at that time, he loses big-time. Can win, but loses his special unit.
Japan's special is the Samauri--and she has no iron.
I just edit these resources in, even though I havent played either civ...

OH, I forgot to add: I settled up to the timber line, border cities like a DEW--they can't grow much, or fast, but they are there, and make my cultural border. The AI settles the ice and tundra. Make it all ice, and they can't grow beyond pop 1. Of course, it it territory, and that counts for score...

Is it possible to make tundra impossible to build a city on, like mountains? Anybody know?

That's an EXCELLENT question Blakis !!! you're a genius !
I don't think it's possible to make it so with the editor... but maybe I can ask to people I know if they could do that.

I totally agree with you, if it wasn't possible to build cities on tundra, it would solve MANY problems. well anyway, gonna check that, thanx again ;)

A possibility would be to add a new terrain, a copy of mountains, to put tundra graphics, to call it tundra, and to put tundra spec. and then, to delet the older tundra terrain... I wonder if it would be possible to make it so... tough job. :(

Maybe it's possible to swap the mountain image with the tundra image to make it possible to build on (what looks like) mountains but not (what looks like) tundra. This is an imperfect solution but I think I would rather have the AI building on mountains rather than tundra.

Come to think of it, this might be a worse idea than I first thought. This would probably allow catapults and such to travel on mountains now and not tundra. They probably shouldn't be able to go on either though...

Hi, Marla. Great map! I played a huge game last week as the English and had a lot of fun. Yeah, the AI did settle greenland but it didn't matter, none of those cities really amounted to anything. I was able to settle Australia, and parts of S. America, and N. Africa. I recommend the English for an interesting worldwide naval game. The Chinese and Indians were my principal enemy. By the way, I think starting close to Europe is a big advantage because you can trade with all the other civs.

I started another game as the Aztecs, but I'm not sure if they're really playable. The problem is that they don't have any resources - to get iron you either have to take over washington or go all the way to the bottom of S. America. Same with horses - they're pretty much owned by the Iroquoi. So your only option to keep *those* civs from destroying you (especially the Americans) is to overwhelm them with jaguar warriors and take them out early before they can deploy spearman in numbers - which really isn't fair, because you're taking advantage of your knowledge of their starting position to kill them, and still unsatisfying as you end up with a game in which by 2000BC you have all of N & S America to yourself, giving you a huge lead.

I might try playing that again and leave the Americans off the map so that I have a chance to get iron, but i just thought i'd bring it up. Maybe the aztec's need more resources, i don't know.

Originally posted by stonecoldt
.....I started another game as the Aztecs, but I'm not sure if they're really playable.....

Whatever is done to the map there will always be some Civ's that are harder to play than others. In fact it would be interesting to hear from people who have played the map about who they feel are the easiest and hardest Civ's, not (I hasten to add) so that we can try to balance them (as you can never truly balance them all) but so that present this map to future players with the list of Civ's ranked in order of difficulty

what do you all think?

Since the resources and luxuries are generally placed where they really are, If you play a historical starting point, you either have to choose one you know can win, or do some fantastic trading. I am reminded of how hard it must have been for Japan to mount WWII with no iron , no coal, no oil.. I think it was only the industrial capacity of US to turn out massive numbers of ships, bombers, and tanks etc (plus perhaps a little deterent from nuclear :) ) that over came thier will to conquer.
When I played my last game I actuall seeded England with a little extra luxuries, because I wanted to play england. In fact, I decided just to take the random start position, American, and live with it.
I see two real possibilities here. One, take a historical position, know that the odds are against you, and make it happen anyway.
two take a random position, and think of the named civs not as people, but as types of civs, and play your favorite type from a random position.

Originally posted by stonecoldt
Hi, Marla. Great map! I played a huge game last week as the English and had a lot of fun.

Well I did say I'd report back on my experience of the latest version, so it seems somewhat fitting to mention it here considering I too played the English. This was actually my first game playing with the Monarcy difficulty level. (Please don't laugh!) My rivals were: France, Germany, Russia, China, India, Egypt, Persia, Iroquois, Japan, Aztecs and the Zulus.

I "fixed the starting locations" of the Civilizations, and I quickly established London, then Plymouth to the South-West and Glasgow up in Scotland. I eventually crossed over into Ireland and founded Donegal in the north (my mate's girlfriend comes from there, you see) and Kilarny to the South-West.

Moving over to continental Europe I built Brittany in Brittany, and Amsterdam in The Netherlands (darn Russians took both eventually, though my culture grabbed Brittany back - much to my delight).

I had a very slow start, and it was really hard to spread. I did colonise Iceland eventually, but was trying to focus on re-establishing my own personal homeland of New Zealand as an English colony. Perhaps starting Sydney in Australia on the way. But as fate had it I had to make a hard choice to avoid Australasia completely. It would have been quite a challenge and I felt disheartened after losing a galley in the Indian ocean.

I settled for a few colonies in North-West Africa (Casablanca, and the off-shore Port Rosary). And finally south of the Amazon in South America I founded Port Elizabeth, which I intended to be the eventual location of my Forbidden palace - so I could support a "New England" in Eastern South America.

I was rather successful in doing that too. Founding the further cities in these South American Colonies including Montrose, Beaufort, Royale, Murchison and many others. You must have noticed I like putting a bit of effort into the names of my cities! :)

Yeah, the AI did settle greenland but it didn't matter, none of those cities really amounted to anything. I was able to settle Australia, and parts of S. America, and N. Africa.

Congratulations! Maybe I should try again. Actually, I haven't finished this game. By the 1400's, though my turns took me about 20 seconds to execute, the rival civs take at least 5 minutes, maybe even ten to do theres. And I just don't have quite enough patience to see this game mature into Modern day.

I recommend the English for an interesting worldwide naval game. The Chinese and Indians were my principal enemy. By the way, I think starting close to Europe is a big advantage because you can trade with all the other civs.

Yes the game has got to the point where I'm starting to dominate the Atlantic with Ironclads, so I can see it could get very interesting in the naval respect. I kinda agree about the "trading in Europe" point, but actually it seemed every other Civ seemed to be much more agreeable about swapping techs with each other, than they were with me. I had a rather good run of trading luck though after I established contact with the Iroquois. I sold contact with them, the Aztecs and the world maps I got from them both to my Eurasian Civ counterparts for a veritable fortune at the time - finally catching up with them all and giving me the big boost I needed for my South American expansion. I love that trading aspect - thank you Firaxis!

My main rivals were Russia, and Japan. Japan invaded Iceland, in an almost conceivable adventurous-Eskimo style (of course, I got it back!) The Russians just grumbled a lot, and swallowed my lovely Amsterdam, much to my annoyance. I wanted my civs to have "coffeehouses" (and tulips!) too! ;)

I think (unless a Middle Earth map appears) I might try playing this map again, but with fewer rival civs. Maybe the lag won't be so bad like that. Maybe I could try random locations too. If you've got that "historically connected civs start together" option checked (or whatever it is called) then it could be quite interesting indeed. It would be like embracing a new Earth, without completely disregarding the history of our own version of Earth. I like trying to link it in more with our own histories.

Marla, I agree with the idea of limiting growth in Greenland. It just doesn't look right. Even if they do try and make it nicer looking by planting forests! ;)

Oh and, I haven't mentioned this yet (I think?) but I really appreciate the effort you've made with New Zealand. I haven't had first hand experience of establishing any cities on it yet though, but it does look "about right" and I haven't noticed anything that makes me want to make any suggestions (yet!) But, for sure - thank you for making a good go of it.

Ash

Originally posted by Frimlin
Western South America.

Oh I mean Eastern, sorry. (Have now edited it too, after realising that of course.. I can indeed edit posts!) I've started to think of it just as "New England" rather than South America, so it's hard to me to readjust to the real world.

Hmm guess who's been playing too much Civ3?! :rolleyes:

There's such a thing as too much? Sounds like heresy considering this is the "CivFanatics" site! :D

Ash

Here is the result of my latest test :D

Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people

I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.

2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)

3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)

That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).

If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.

When everything will be ready, I'll put on this thread a beta version to be tested by volunteers... (I hope some of you will help me).

NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I will certainly add a saved copy of the original file to the map self extractor.

I have spent the past week editing Marla's Map. I have focused on the asthetics of a few of the regions. I have also added a few resources to some areas to help out some of the civs (mainly the Iriquois - horses in North America - I realize this is not historically accurate but for game play I think it is important that they are able to build their UU).

My main areas of concentration have been the Great Lakes Region, Greenland, Iceland, the British Isles, the Iberian Peninsula, the Italian Peninsula, Northern Africa, and the Japanese Islands. I have also added alot more forest to the map and thrown in a few more barbarians to add some spice to the mix.

I have posted some pictures of these locations in Paul saunder's thread "Realistic Starting Nations Scenario"

I will post a couple of pictures before and after so people can decide whether they want to download this file or not.

Here is the map. If you have already downloaded the latest version of Marla's Map with Vonotar's civ placement utility this map will work with it.

After doing some editing I have moved this map to its own thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12771

Here is the old Great Lakes Region:

Here is the Great Lakes Region on my edited version of Marla's Map.

whoops!:crazyeyes

Here is the old Italian Peninsula:

Here is the Italian Peninsula on my edited version of Marla's Map:

Marla,

What do you think? Hope you like the changes.

I understand that I have used plains in areas that maybe should be grassland but I was going more for asthetics.

I also got rid of a lot of the sea and coast tiles to make it more difficult to cross the oceans.

kal-el

Here is the result of my latest test :D

Okay so here are the changes:
1. Settler requirement: 60 shields and 3 people
Instead of before: 30 shields and 2 people

I've tested with only 40 shields and 3 people, it keeps the AI to build cities really fast.
Actually it makes the game a lot more interesting since cities are a lot more valuable (harder to build) and then, the interest of devellopment is more about improving cities than expanding.

2. Tundra doesn't produce food anymore, I haven't the time to test that since I've ended the game at 0 A.D (it was just to test changes, it took me already a lot of time !)

3. A new unit has been added: Pirogue (since we find a better name)
It's a unit available only for England, Japan and Rome.
Characteristics:
- Movement: 2
- Can carry 1 land unit
- Cost: 20 shields
- Tech required: Pottery
- Upgrade to: Galley (Mapmaking)
- Art Graphic: Galley (well I'm not a Photoshop buff)

That's great, I've tested it with Japan, and I settled in Korea befor China. Japan can finally become a strong power on the Pacific West (yes it's the west side of the pacific!).

If I not only give it to Japan and England but also to Rome, it's because it gives the opportunity to Rome to settle in Maghreeb (Carthage). Thus, it allows a devellopment of Rome around the Med sea and Egypt has a competitor on the run to West Africa ressources.

NB: the new unit requests few changes on .txt files, I have added a copy of original files in the zipfile.

Thanx to download this beta version, I've tested it 'till 0 AD so it should not have bugs (I've built both pirogues and settlers, nothing happened)

Your comments on changes are very important to me. thanx again for everything. :)

It's important to read the readme file

Hey Marla,

I've been playing a game with your last non-beta version, but with a few tweaks. The most notable is that I turned most of Greenland, Northern North America, and those Northern Russian islands into snow-capped mountains to prevent AI Civ settlements. So far, so good and I think it's a lot better.

I allowed for a settlement on the very southern tip of Greenland, which my Celtic British peoples settled. But otherwise, everything else is snow-capped mountains and no rival civ has made any awkward cities on it. Much better :)

Thought you'd like to know my results.

Ash

Still playing the Germans (my computer is very slow).
Anyway my culture conquered Paris and the bit of the french civ thats located in Europe (they have cities in Siberia).
Then i took knights and conquered the Greeks and Romans. Later I created panzers and overran Russia, Persia easy and landed armies in England and who fell easily to my panzers and cavalry.

Europe is mine! But those Americans and Chinese got big empires. I'm gonna kill em'. :slay: :king: :D

I decided to play the Aztecs again, this time taking out a couple of civs - the Americans, the French, and the Greeks, which leaves 13 civs playing instead of 16. I figured it would give everyone a little more room to expand, and I'd see if I could expand across all of S. America before the Europeans come. (I can but the cities are full of corruption.)

So it's a good game, but to my surprise, it's *much* faster. I'm only at 1320 AD, so maybe it'll still slow down later, but right now turns are completing in under a minute. What gives? Don't get me wrong, I'm not *complaining*, just pleasantly surprised! Does anyone else experience this? I sure didn't think 3 less civs would make much of a difference.

Also, thanks for all the great maps, marla! I'll give the beta a try when i finish this game.

Just examined the map. Great job. But I had to make a few changes in North America:

1. Not enough forests in the East.
2. I added four mountain tiles for the Appalachians, including one in upstate NY, and moved the hill tiles east; they were much too far west. Add a river to reflect the Hudson flowing into the Atlantic and the marshes across the river in NJ.
3. One hill tile with iron was adjacent to the Great Lakes. Not so. Moved east.

There are some hills too far south I think in South America right near where Buenos Aires is. I'll have to recheck that; they might belong up in Brazil.

New Zealand looks a little out of scale (too big), and India appears too narrow in the west. Easily rectified. I added a plains square in that NW section near Pakistan, and I (for NZ) replaced the protruding SE corner of the south island with coast.

The Adriatic Sea appears one tile too short in the north. Also easily rectified. Done - one coast tile added; the wheat grassland tile move north one.

The California coast looks kind of ragged, and more forests were needed east of the Mississippi in North America.

There are too many sea and coast tiles in the middle of the Pacific especially north of NZ. Looks like you were trying to create an artificial route for galleys. Polynesian vessels were ocean-going, and there should be some reflection of this in the unit, not by creating coast tiles nowhere near the coast.

Other than that I can't find anything wrong with it. It's a damn good job. :goodjob:

Originally posted by stonecoldt
I decided to play the Aztecs again, this time taking out a couple of civs - the Americans, the French, and the Greeks, which leaves 13 civs playing instead of 16. I figured it would give everyone a little more room to expand, and I'd see if I could expand across all of S. America before the Europeans come. (I can but the cities are full of corruption.)

So it's a good game, but to my surprise, it's *much* faster. I'm only at 1320 AD, so maybe it'll still slow down later, but right now turns are completing in under a minute. What gives? Don't get me wrong, I'm not *complaining*, just pleasantly surprised! Does anyone else experience this? I sure didn't think 3 less civs would make much of a difference.

Also, thanks for all the great maps, marla! I'll give the beta a try when i finish this game.

Perhaps it's not that there are three less civ's (not 16) in the whole world but the fact that you've got two less civ's (not 6) in Europe, I have a suspicion that with Europe so crowded the AI spends an awful lot of time moving the same units over and over again trying to find new ground and perhaps causing loads of diplomatic talks every time a unit crosses a boundary ("oy! get out of my country" type stuff).

It would appear that more is not always better, and just because we can have 16 civ's doesn't mean we should. If i'm correct then 16 Civ's could still be entertained in scenarios if some of them had there ability to create units clipped (e.g. in a WWII scenario with an allied power, axis power there would be several neutral countries that would be represented with very small numbers of cities (cos they are only small countries) in these circumstances you could get away with a bunch of civ's that are there as "targets" for the axis powers and altho they have units defending there cities would not be capable of generating more.

I'm putting together a method of adding units etc to the civilopedia without expecting people to either edit it themselves or completely replace there existing file. This will make it easier for different scenarios to co-exist as long as they do not modify existing items (units, city improvements etc) or have new items with the same name. So in theory it would be possible to install several scenarios with different new units without expecting the end-user to keep swapping the civilopedia files or expecting them to cut and paste bits from one to another themselves.

It's a pity we have to do this **** ourselves, some of these things could have been so easily dealt with by firaxis, I loved the "put the modified files in a subdirectory" approach of civ2.

We're still looking for ways of preventing civ's from founding cities on tundra and possibly desert, I would love to here from anybody who can work out how to give these terrains the same 'cant build here' parameter that mountains have.

Well I hope everybody is having a great christmas, I don't care if your not christian, neither am I really, I just like the excuse to get three weeks off work, eat too much and put my feet up!!

See you all in the new year!

Vonotar

vonotar@lastlands.org

Your map is just great.
I went on the forum last week and downloaded it because i had nothing better to do. And the second i played it i was addicted. Being England is just to damned fun, because you have so many problems being stuck on the island untill you can get a galley. It's espically fun to play as rome because of the challenge in the fight over the cities. I think you need to add some more goody huts around romes starting location because its almost impossible to win in a 16 Civ game.
The only bad thing is that its too good. I really beleive that your next map should NOT be as great as this one, because for all of us die hard Civ players we get addicted to new maps like a intern to bill clinton. This is not to offend you, but i lost my girlfriend over your map, i spent too much time playing it and not enough time with her.:goodjob:

Played the romans, and crashed on me one turn after i traded for pottery. I think I followed the readme directions all right, putting the .txt files in the text directory. Is it still okay to use your program that fixes map positions? Also, I'm playing the latest patched version. (1.17?)

I am playing as England and have a great game going. I have been carefull to name every city I create, capture or absorb (through culture) accurate to what it would really be. So I don't just choose the random names given by the Civilization 3 engine. If I control a French city, I give it a French name.

I am currently playing with all Civilizations with the exception of USA and the Iroquoi. I replaced North America with a very large number of barbarian camps instead and allowed the Aztecs to exist.

I currently control :
-British Isles (London, Aberdeen, Plymouth and Belfast)
-Western France (Lorient)
-Northern Denmark (Alborg),
-Netherlands (Amsterdam)
-Southern Scandinavia (Stockholm, Oslo, Malmo),
-Iceland (Reykjavik, Eskifjorour),
-Canada (St. John's NFLD , St. John NB, Sept-Iles, Quebec City, Val-d'Or, Toronto, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, Kenora, Winnipeg, Thompson, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Powell River)
-Eastern USA (New York, Norfolk)

That is my current situation ( I might have missed a city in France and another near Holland, but thats close). I am at war with Egypt and France, both of whom declared war on me. Egypt except a grant of money, I said no and it sprung from there.
Currently I have destroyed nearly all the improvements around Paris and from there I will build up an attack force. Atleast that was the plan...

I am in the year 1625 in the game and near the end of the turn the game crashes. It does this every time. I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how this can be fixed but it should be noted that I do have the latest version of Civilization 3.

Please help, because getting to the year 1625 in a 14 Civilization game is quite a lot of time to spend on one game, I'd hate to loose all my hard and detailed work... Plus my Civ is pretty advanced.

If you can help please send an email my way :

travissmith@dccnet.com

stonecoldt: Did you make *any* modifications to the map before starting on it? I have found even simple changes such as changing the colour of the Civilization can cause crashes(!) You have to be quite methodical with any changes you make. What I do is make a couple of changes, save the map and keep a record of what I've changed. Try it out in the game (edit rule crashes seem to happen at the end of the first turn.) And if it causes crashes, revert to the map before and make different changes intead - until you make a map which doesn't crash that you can then use as a stable base for the next lot of changes you want to make.

But, both Agent-0 and stonecoldt: (depending on how much the crashes are irritating you) you could try (completely) uninstalling and reinstalling. You might have changed something, or downloaded something third-partyish which could have caused the crash. But then again, it might not be that at all. I went through a uninstall/reinstall/repatch.. etc only to find out it was just my rule editing that was making the game crash.

As for my latest? Well, I'm too busy enjoying the game right now to post my results. But I'm playing as "Celtic Britannia," based in the British Isles but I control all of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa and the Levant and parts of West China and North India.. :) Maybe I need to move up from Monarchy? :king:

Ash

I'd have to say I find the crash to be quite innoying. This is mostly because of how far I am into the game.

I tried sending the map to 2 of my friends and the saved game I was using and both ran into the crash.

I did alter Marla's map : I added around 7 fish in and around Newfoundland and also probably around 10-20 Barbarian camps in North America (all of which have been disbanded at this point in the game (there might be 1 or 2 lleft).

It seems that the crash happens when Russia launches a ship towards France (They are allied with me) it moves all the way to Denmark and then the game stops for around 1 minute and then crashes.

I was thinking I might email Firaxis or Infogrames the saved game, do you think they will help me ?

Originally posted by Agent-0
I'd have to say I find the crash to be quite innoying. This is mostly because of how far I am into the game.

I tried sending the map to 2 of my friends and the saved game I was using and both ran into the crash.

I did alter Marla's map : I added around 7 fish in and around Newfoundland and also probably around 10-20 Barbarian camps in North America (all of which have been disbanded at this point in the game (there might be 1 or 2 lleft).

It seems that the crash happens when Russia launches a ship towards France (They are allied with me) it moves all the way to Denmark and then the game stops for around 1 minute and then crashes.

I was thinking I might email Firaxis or Infogrames the saved game, do you think they will help me ?

Try taking a save-game from just before the crash happens, loading it into Gramphos' SaveGameEditor and removing that ship, save and if the game no longer crashes at the same point then the problem IS something to do with the ship in which case it might be worth looking at what the ship is and what it is doing (maybe the game is trying to run some graphics that have become corrupted or summit)
If the crash still happens in the same place then it's nothing to do with the ship at all...

Have you installed the game patch?
I had started two games on this map, and they both reached a point where they crashed, and crashed at the same point, no matter what reload year I chose.
The patch cured that, and I was able to finish.

<Edit> Sorry about the mistake in making two Identical posts here. Delete didn't seem to work, though...

-Sir Beebles [dance]

I know everyone has been saying this, but I LOVE THIS MAP! Nicely done, Marla. Heck, you've even inspired me, a guy who can't tell his bits from his bytes (are they different?:confused: ) to make a map of Asia! :D Thanks, Marla!
-Sir Beebles [dance]

Since playing on a huge map is very slow for me, i was wondering if it will go faster if i have fewer civs in the game. Instead of 16 maybe 8. :confused:

My next game i plan to play a long drawn out game, and hope to go to space. No expansionist civs, so it will take a long time to meet other civs.

Hello God! ;)

Yeah definitely - if this map is too slow with 16 Civs then do try having less Civs. It was the same for me, but when I tried again with only 4 or 5 Civs it was much faster. But still, near the end it can take a while - once everyone has expanded a bit. That would be the map size I guess.

I've moved back to randomly generated maps now. I think it's tougher, because you don't know that much about the place and the necessary strategies whereas you do when it's a map of Earth. I'm not doing so good against the Persians right now..

Ash

I love this map!

I've tried both the 1.13 and 1.15 version (I got the 1.15 to try playing as the English and use the 'pirogue' - but Civ3 crashes as soon as a pirogue is supposed to be built, maybe I'm the only one? Oh well - doesn't matter, it's still fun, I just don't choose to build them and it's fine.)

But one thing really bugs me, and I have no idea whether it has to do with the scenario or my computer or just bad juju. It's been the case for three different games now. AI civs are completely, passively pacifist towards each other. They'll threaten me, declare war against me, and I can entangle them in alliances with me against other AI's, but they will never start a war among themselves. I really miss unpredictable AI relationships. Otherwise the game becomes hours of "Let's Play Technology WTO".

Thanks! The map is great.

Most of the crashes I have ever experienced are whenever I play on a Gigantic map (larger than 180 x 180). I was playing a game, and the only rule I changed in the editor was to make a map larger (256 x 256). Everytime I tried to buy a map from the Zulu's (or anyone else who had a map of Zulu's territory), the game crashed. So I had to map their territory with my tanks :D . There was also times my galleys would lock the game up whenever they are near either the North or South Pole (or they would disappear off the map!)

I have version 1.07f and wanted to do the patch, but I've heard so many bad things about it, so I have stayed away from it. My computer has windows ME on it, if anyone else has the same version of windows and has tried the new patch I'd like to know if it worked fine for you.

57%- The AI seems to be very passive until I the latter part of the middle ages to the beginning of the Industrial age (and I'm usually the first target!). Prior to this all the civs are usually trying to map the entire world and settle as much of it as possible. Once all of the earth is settled by someone, then the war starts, because someone isn't happy with the land they already have.

Once all of the earth is settled by someone, then the war starts, because someone isn't happy with the land they already have.

Thats usually me...:goodjob:

OK guys & girls, I think I solved Pirogue crash. What u need to do is add a Pirogue directory in your Civ3\Art\units dir. The safest way is to copy the Galley dir, since Pirogue uses its art & sounds and rename it in Pirogue. Also, its important to rename the Galley.ini file into Pirogue.ini, that should work. Well, at least it worked on my system, Civ3 patched to 1.16f. :cool:

It does not work with Windows ME.When you click on start positions for world map irt zips by so fast you can not read what it says and when you try to load the fix.sav file it will not load .If you start the game as is I noticed one Civ is on to of another ie. Japs next to USSR. Why is this ?

My friend, I had Windows Me. It was a piece of unstable junk. Get rid of it and be happy.

now that is some great, constructive comment zouave... now go back to wherever you came from! :mad: :mad: :mad:

if the only thing you can do is ***** and moan (cos it's the only thing you do around here) go annoy someone else, pleeeaaase. some pplz here are trying to have fun, but you are only bothering all of us by trolling around, and posting lame comments in everyone's thread.

now for your problem... did you use the correct starting locations?? did you use a save game, or marla's map, and the c3ct to correct the starting locations. if so, make sure you use the marla.cpf file, it's made for the map.. otherwise, try re-downloading the map, or take a look opening it in the editor, if that gives any problems. Also, make sure if you use the correct starting positions that you use the correct map (the marla world map, not any modded version, that might give problems)

that's all i can do for you now

Thanks Kloepoek, the other guy is a jerk. Allther games inc. Empire Earth and Civ3 are playing just fine with ME. I suppose the jerk has XP . However I read that a lot of gamers with XP are having trouble with a lot of games.
I use the map file ,correct start position with world map on a NEW GAME.
I have another queston:
The file I have civ3mod (with no extension) is that the same as civ3mod.bic ?
The size is about the same and perhaps ME oes not give an extension.

I have windows ME and it worked just fine for me.

If you downloaded it correctlly, it's real simple once you figure it out. You load her scenario, then before you move any units or settle, you save the game (4000 B.C). Save it as FIX, (the computer will automatically add the .SAV to the end). Then since on my screen the start button does not show when playing the game, I have to hit the 'windows' button (between the alt and cntrl), then go to programs.....Marla Singer's Scenarios.....Correct starting positions. The program will then run (it automatically looks for your FIX.SAV file, and then renames it FIXED.SAV after making the changes). Then load the FIXED.SAV file, and there you go!

You did this on a NEW GAME? Should choose 'Load Scenario', otherwise you won't get the right map size (hers is 204 X 256. unlike the normal 180X180 for a huge map) which could totally screw up the coordinates of the starting locations.

thank you it now works fine.

I loaded my old save game (posted above) and I'm sailing my Pirogue around right now. Thanks!

Marla, any way to package this new unit? Maybe create the folder for the new unit, put it in the zipfile to download, and then tell people where to drag the folder onto their system.

Anyway, I'll try your beta over the weekend now that the crash is history. :king:

I have used Marla's map which is wonderful; I have what may be a questions with hopefully an obvious answer; how can I use Marla's map with my modified .bic file? I have modivied the .bic file that comes with the map as well as the original .bic file using the games editor. ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

Windows ME does suck--Zouvrae had a point there. use 2000...what's this using XP garbage? Microsoft's "consumer" OS's are often flawed and underpowered, still running on a 16 bit Windows 3.1 core. While Windows 3.1 was a masterful bit of programming, it should not have been used nearly a decade later.

Hey KloePoek,

What are you? Ten years old, or just a shill for Firaxis?? What a pathetic crybaby you are. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

My comments about Windows Me ARE very constructive. That Operating System STINKS. Get rid of it and be happy.

As for Civ III, I play it and I enjoy it.

But unlike you, I am not so simple-minded as to be unable to criticize A VERY FLAWED and RUSHED PRODUCT.

The large number of threads and posts over the past weeks complaining about aspects of CIV III - AND TRYING TO MAKE THEM BETTER - proves my point. The pitiful maps of "Earth" that came with the game are just one example of many problems that range from playability to poor realism to absurdly high rates for Espionage. Among other things.

Now go WHINE someplace else while pretending Civ III is perfection personified.

Take a hike. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

:sad: Lets not have a windows war here people, please restrict yourselves to comments about the scenario and the installation/packaging. A flame war only risks alienating those people who are looking for help to make Civ3 more fun.

:D Given the stonkingly high number of downloads for V1.13 and relatively few numbers of people emailing me with installation/running problems I assume that things are working fine so far.

:enlighten I'm working on a new installation package which will build on the new features in the V1.15 beta and will (hopefully) address the issues about graphics files needed etc. I'm designing this installation to amend the civilopedia files rather than replace them, my aim is to create a method of automatically installing modpacks that can live along side each other (ie no need to keep swapping files when changing from one scenario to another)

:D To this end I'm looking for mug's... ahem... I mean volunteers to test this thing for me, it's going to be a bit different than the current installer. I will personnally test it on my XP and Win98lite systems but i'd like it to get a wider testing before unleashing it on the masses. I'm hoping to have this ready for testing on 14th Jan.

:cool: Incidentally since we appear to have fixed the initial problems with the extra unit, does anybody out there fancy getting some fame (no fortune i'm afraid) for designing new graphics for the Pirogue unit? Budding artist's feel free to post your designs to this board so that we can all take a look and (if we get more than one submission) vote on the winner.


Volunteers for beta testing please e-mail Vonotar (vonotar@lastlands.org)

Map suggestions as always should be e-mailed to Marla (marla_singer_13@yahoo.com) as she is the creative genius behind the map.

Hi everyone, playing Marla`s map (1.15 B version- GREAT map, by the way) as russian- and every time I reach 2350 BC- it crashes. Anyone familiar with this?

CIVILIZATION3 caused a invalid ..in
modul CIVILIZATION3.EXE by 0187:00403046.
Register:
EAX=00000000 CS=0187 EIP=00403046 EFLGS=00010202
EBX=005c5818 SS=018f ESP=00abfc30 EBP=01360eb0
ECX=0c976d0c DS=018f ESI=0c976d0c FS=3267
EDX=00002b03 ES=018f EDI=00000000 GS=0000
Byte by CS:EIP:
8b 80 3c 01 00 00 83 c1 58 8b 50 04 52 e8 38 71

(Report modified, originally in norwegian...)

Thanks for any help!!

Hi everyone,

playing Marla`s map (1.15 B version- GREAT map, by the way) as russian- and every time I reach 2350 BC- it crashes.

Anyone familiar with this: ?

CIVILIZATION3 caused a invalid ..in
modul CIVILIZATION3.EXE by 0187:00403046.
Register:
EAX=00000000 CS=0187 EIP=00403046 EFLGS=00010202
EBX=005c5818 SS=018f ESP=00abfc30 EBP=01360eb0
ECX=0c976d0c DS=018f ESI=0c976d0c FS=3267
EDX=00002b03 ES=018f EDI=00000000 GS=0000
Byte by CS:EIP:
8b 80 3c 01 00 00 83 c1 58 8b 50 04 52 e8 38 71

(Report modified, originally in norwegian...)

Thanks for any help!!

Hello Gang. I am also impressed with the map, and was happy to download the December version with the correct starting positions. Followed the instructions and tried my first "tougher" Monarch level game, figuring that knowing the terrain would be a big help. Have played the Aztecs carefully and now in 1415 AD, after MANY hours (the game REALLY slows down on these very large maps, even on my 1000 meg Athlon), have found a mistake that I am hoping can be fixed. Actually, it's 2 mistakes, since the Privateers are being built with an Attack strength of 1. I am Definately playing with 1.16f and indeed have other games going where I see the Privateer with an attack 2. But in Marla's, it's as tho the patch didn't work! I wonder if there are other changes in this patch that don't play out with patch. Anyway, that is all forgivable, and not a big issue. However, the REAL Problem is a Killer. I raced to enter the Industrial era and learn STEAM POWER. I have almost 40 workers anxious to connect my cities which are strung out through the US (America's almost out), Central, and South America. But despite the advent of Steam, there is NO COAL TO BE FOUND!!! I was shocked! I double-checked and even traded Maps with Europe and Asian countries to be sure they might not have Coal, and NOBODY does. Help. I have already built-up a very good (for me) score of about 1300 and hate to give up on this scenario. But it's unfair that I cannot build Railroads. And if coal is never found, that will totally mess up the game. If anyone is familiar what to do, your ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

I used the editor to go over Marla's map, and you're right about one thing, no coal on the map! how wierd....

Also note about trading, the other civs cannot offer you coal until they discover Steam Power themselves.

The only thing I can suggest for you now is to use some kind of a save game editor to add coal to your game... and let's hope Marla's next version will have some coal in it :)

Q

I have to say, I didn't think I'd like the "settlers cost 3 population" mod, but yes, it makes for a better game. The AI doesn't expand like crazy, and neither can you. But because founding a city is more expensive, it pushes you a little more toward military... why spend all that work to end up with a lvl 1 city when you can build a couple of military units and take over your neighbors?

Thanks again for the map/mod...

Tristan

:crazyeyes Wow, this becomes strange. My wife (god-bless-her) recommended continuing anyway. I played two more turns, and this morning when I started my latest Save in 1425. I found several Coals! Just to be sure, I restarted 1415, the turn I had first discovered Steam Power, and they were NOT there.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion Quellious. Fortunately, the prob seems to have resolved itself. Has anyone else ever seen "delayed" resources? If it is a randomizor thrown into the game, then we should have been made aware, so that when it occurs one doesn't think it is some kind of programming glitch!:rolleyes:

I just looked at her map at two locations where historically there SHOULD be coal: Wales, and West Virginia. IT WAS THERE.

Look more closely, I know the coal is too hard to find.

:goodjob: Great work this 1.15 BETA

I started playing Marla's map with verson 1.05 and ended up with an horrible amount of cities and a very slow game.

I really like the changes in the scenario (giving the English and Janapese a possibility to expand and the more expensive settler).

However, I think that it should be more difficult to cross the Atlanatic Ocean. I played as the Zulu and I was still the first in South America (even before the Aztecs).:lol:

Sweet map.

BTW, I just looked for coal in Manchuria. NOT there, but it should be.

I suggest you Edit a coal tile into central Mancuria, near where the city of Harbin is.

OK, this is Version 1.16 beta

For the changes from 1.13 to 1.15 see Marla's earlier note

Changes from 1.15 to 1.16
----------------------------------

* Rome AI is now flagged to produce Navel units
This is in line with the aim to get Rome to expand around the med, since France and Germany tend to eat-up Europe too quick for the Romans to get a look in!

* Pirogue Unit now has it's own directories
With files copied from Galley, hopefully this will fix the majority of crashes that have involved the Pirogue, I suspect these were caused by the game attempting to work with both Pirogue's and Galley's at the same time and then failing cos both used to point to the same files causing a conflict

* Read-me/Documentation now in Html format
Did this earlier with an add-on, but I've re-vamped the readme. For those who didn't see the earlier attempt this contains the usual stuff plus a complete list of city names for each Civ. Html format also means you don't need such-n-such version of Word to read the "readme", the logic being that if you got the mod from here - you must have a browser

* New Installation Program
Designed to make it easier for me to work on other mod's that can live along side this one (since we have now moved into the dodgy area of editing the civilopedia!).

Since this is a beta version it does not un-install any previous versions.

Any problems either e-mail me at vonotar@lastlands.org or send me an Instant Message using any of the clients below

Attachment removed pending another fix for Win9X systems

.

.

Some quick notes after playing on v1.16 as the Americans for a little bit.

1. Oceans produce nothing? Try and place a laborer on an ocean square and you get a red shield, just as bad as pollution. This makes sense until later in the game. Under the old version, oceans produce one food (2 with a harbor), but no shields or gold. It would be smarter in this case to make specialists. But once you have the offshore platform it would make a huge difference. This limits the growth of some of my coastal cities on the eastern part of the U.S.

2. Tundras produce no food? Guess I should have read the read-me file before expanding into Canada :blush:

3. I changed the Iroquois start position further west in what is now Wisconsin. I don't like the Iroquois starting that close to me.

4. I know you debated about doing this but I think the Iroquois should be given horses, or at least be given some other unique unit to make up for it. Or make it so the mounted warrior doesn't require horses (I know, this doesn't make any sense :lol: )

5. I still don't like the idea of how easy it is to navigate oceans early in the game with all the coastal and sea squares in the middle of the Atlantic and other areas. I like the idea of coasts being limited to squares adjacent to land, and perhaps sea one tile further, but beyond that it should be ocean (except in actual seas and gulfs).

6. The changing of settler requirements sure does slow down expansion, but the AI still sets expansion as it's top priority.

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
1. Oceans produce nothing? Try and place a laborer on an ocean square and you get a red shield, just as bad as pollution ......... Under the old version, oceans produce one food

The old version of what? I've checked the civ3mod.bic file and standard games have 0 production in Oceans as well.

Sorry, my mistake. The instruction manual says it produces one food. Just never realized it didn't produce anything before, because I've never played on a map before that had ocean within the city limits.

I have downloaded and started a game as Germany in Regency. After dealing with France the AI was kind enough to space out my wars with Rome and Russia. Don't let anyone know about my secret plans for invading Athens.

I have only had one crash and I find the map to be excelent! The only problem I am having is the Science screan is completely messed up and I can not change my science from that adviser window. Anyone have a fix for this? Do I need to repatch?

The Southern coast of N America should have dye and incence. Sure Tobaco isn't exactly incence to most people but it was the #1 export of the fledgling colonies until the blooming of the Rum trade. East coast should have 2 incence and 1 dye. Also much of south america's trade is in spices. I haven't looked at that section of the map but you can't ignore the world's only source for coffee, coca and coke. The extra luxuries would also even up the distrabution to 9 each for wine, spices, silk, and incence. You could also move one fur from america and put it in Africa. Since the fur trade in africa was very important in ancient times. Asia and austrailia should definatly have some of the gems. Austrailia is one of the largest saphire producers and SE Asia is rich in emeralds and rubies.

One geographical note: The Sahara was significantly smaller in 4000bc. The Carthoginian culture thrived there even with egypt as a nieghbor. Maybe a line of plains to soften up the desert. It is commonly thought the advance of the Sahara was due to over farming in the region but it is not certain that it was man's fault or if they could have stopped the sands from moving farther north. Africa is a much drier place than it was a few thousand years ago. Global warming? Man made or natural, the earth has changed.

Well done, expect in 2 things in canada: (permafrost for those who dont know is equivilant to the artic type land)
Newfoundland, canada; i noticed that you made it all permafrost, only the top left corner is actually permafrost the rest should be plains or hills/mountains.
The permafrost should be shaped a bit more like a V then a line, the western part (which is a big grain producer) is fine, but Ontario/Quebec its permafrost is a bit too low.

Otherwise great mod:)

I've removed version 1.16Beta until I can fix some very major glaring bugs *smacks self*

Main problems....

Pirogue icons incorrectly referenced in pediaicons.txt....
art\civilopedia\units\84PirogueLarge.pcx
should be...
art\civilopedia\units\29PirogueLarge.pcx

But you'll have only got this far if running XP as windows 9X users just get an error message after install (unless you have VB6 runtimes installed)

Basically the ideas are sound, my implementation was a mess, this is what happens when you give yourself a deadline :rolleyes:

However lots of work is being done, I expect to have 1.17Beta rolling soon, hopefully with no bugs!


Incidentally both 1.16 and 1.15 both involve replacing your civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt files with new versions, this i'm told causes translated versions of Civ3 to become dual language with the main game still in the local language, but the civilopedia in english! So I'm working on a new technique for 1.17 which will see the extra text being inserted into the existing files rather than replacing them, the pirogue description will still be in english but this won't affect the rest of the civilopedia (or any mods that you may have done to it)

So if anybody is using a non-english version of Civ3 and wants to submit a translated description for the Pirogue please email me, 1.17 will be multi-language compatible.

Yes I'm taking the issues slightly too far but I'm not just aiming to improve the world-map here, I'm also trying to build an enhanced and comprehensive way of installing ANY modpack (as opposed to the current situation where everybody is submitting there own versions of files and installing more than one modpack means having to get your hands dirty trying to merge two modpacks together!)

Hope some of this makes sense!

I'm in the middle of translating stuff from VB (well QBasic actually) to Delphi, anybody with experience of this PLEASE EMAIL ME (not that i'm desperate for help.. honest!)

Vonotar

Did anyone figure out how to modify tundra and eliminate its food production? If so, how?

Not that I know of. The best you can do is slow down or stop growth. When a city is settled, click for terrain info. Even a desert or tundra will list "grassland" as the terrain type. Hills are still called hills, but the others switch to grassland. :(

By turning tundra to a 0,0,0 terrain, tho, the city will be unable to grow without other terrain/specials in the city radius. Or a harbor, of course.

i can't get the right starting positions the Readme says to do it i need some thing in the Marla Singer's Scenarios folder but... i don't

Originally posted by SKILORD
i can't get the right starting positions the Readme says to do it i need some thing in the Marla Singer's Scenarios folder but... i don't
If you have an IM call me below, otherwise email details of what version your using of the map & what version of windows

Vonotar

Version 1.17 Now Available

1.15 Added Pirogue For England, Rome & Japan
........Also increased cost of producing a settler
........Was released as a Beta patch, no installer

1.16 Added New Installation Program
........Rome AI set to build more ships
........Pirogue given it's own directory and a copy of Galley files
........Was released as a Beta install program
........Also added several bugs! oops!
........Would crash on Windows 9X Systems oops again!

1.17 Installation Program Fixed
........Tested on Windows 98 and Windows XP
........Civilopedia entry for Pirogue improved
........Russian city names corrected (my thanks to Vasiliy Beliaev)
........Civilopedia files now amended, rather than replaced


Before running the install program.....

If you have previously installed 1.16 delete the "Modpacks" folder inside your Civilization III folder...

If you have previously installed 1.13 delete the "Marlamap" folder inside your Civilization III folder...

This will be the last time I change the modpack layout (I promise!).


Suggestions are still welcome on this Map.

If you wish to provide any translations for the pirogue's civilopedia entry (I understand that there are *some* translated Civ3's out there) then please contact me.

I'm looking to help pull together a Europe mod next, i.e. I will take Joe Bloggs map, John Smiths spanish mod, Jack Jones polish mod etc.. etc.. etc.. and pull them together in one easy to install (if rather large) package. Yes I AM looking at a full set of graphics for each Civ. So if you have ideas on what I should be looking at then please contact me!


v1.17 - 252KB
removed after 42 downloads

See 1.17b Post

Hey vonotar i was going to make a game with me and 7 other civs instead of me and 15 others and when i used correct starting locations it got some right but put iroquois in zulu spot can u make it so u can make a 8 civ version also:goodjob: :egypt:

Originally posted by snake_3017
Hey vonotar i was going to make a game with me and 7 other civs instead of me and 15 others and when i used correct starting locations it got some right but put iroquois in zulu spot can u make it so u can make a 8 civ version also:goodjob: :egypt:
I guess this should be asked in the CPT thread as it is what is used, at least for the latest vesion (1.17)
If you used any other version it is Civ3Breed that is the reason.

If it is the CPT based version, could you attach the fix.sazv and fixed.sav?

i have to admit the thing got most of them right but it put england in swedan starting position(i looked at cpt or cpf file and it had a starting loc for swedan in it).............(edit: umm cant get attachment to work so heres a link to it on one of my web sites)
http://server36.hypermart.net/gamenet3017/Saves.zip

Originally posted by snake_3017
i have to admit the thing got most of them right but it put england in swedan starting position(i looked at cpt or cpf file and it had a starting loc for swedan in it).............(edit: umm cant get attachment to work so heres a link to it on one of my web sites)
http://server36.hypermart.net/gamenet3017/Saves.zip
Strange. I'll look into it tomorrow.

After a quick look it seems as if it placed the English Settler in Sweden, and the English scout and Worker in Rome. I'll look into it more later. :confused:

Originally posted by snake_3017
Hey vonotar i was going to make a game with me and 7 other civs instead of me and 15 others and when i used correct starting locations it got some right but put iroquois in zulu spot can u make it so u can make a 8 civ version also

Strange, I can't understand why it should be doing that, maybe I introduced an error somewhere in the cpf file? I hope not, although I have to admit I only tested that It worked when I played the English (I have great faith in Gramphos' work)

Vonotar

I've fixed the bug. I'll ost a new version of CPT in the CPT threads. It would fail to place any civs that had a higher number in the CPF-file then the number of civs included. (I had swaped a variable)

Originally posted by Gramphos
I've fixed the bug. I'll ost a new version of CPT in the CPT threads. It would fail to place any civs that had a higher number in the CPF-file then the number of civs included. (I had swaped a variable)

Well I refuse to go up Another version number :crazyeyes

attached below is version 1.17b which has the new version of CPT

Same comments apply as what I wrote for version 1.17

V1.17b 252Kb
See top of the thread

Upgrade only version for those with slow modems - 79KB

Cool i am glad i was actually useful in fixing a bug :).... also i am making a mod loader for civ3 that is user friendly and a whole mod is in 1 file which u can make with my program i am making. (i am using vb6 and i am ok in it i am using this as a chance to polish up my programming skills........ughh i hope to be a computer programmer one day to hehe.):lol:

Originally posted by snake_3017
Cool i am glad i was actually useful in fixing a bug :).... also i am making a mod loader for civ3 that is user friendly and a whole mod is in 1 file which u can make with my program i am making. (i am using vb6 and i am ok in it i am using this as a chance to polish up my programming skills........ughh i hope to be a computer programmer one day to hehe.):lol:

Actually there is something similar inside this package..

After installing all the files the computer is directed to run a series of files, basically it looks at all the ini files in the directory \modpacks\common\updates and then susses out which parts are the most recent and what languages are available (different mod's that I make may have similar units etc so the version numbers ensure that the most up-to-date is used). Then (if there is more than one language available) you are asked to pick your language preference after which it installs the extra data into your civilopedia text files, notice I said into this mod does not replace any firaxis files, it add's to them, which mean that if somebody has already edited there copy I wont be wiping out there changes And! people can still run normal earth / random maps.

The next project I'm working on won't be europe after all, looking thru the forums I was hoping that somebody would have become the clear favourite for a europe map, but so far none of the maps have anywhere near the support that marlas worlds map had when I first got involved, so instead i'm looking at a pet project that's been burning in my mind and i'm hoping to turn Jason Morrison's N. America map into a Colonization type Scenario, note I said Scenario, yes there are no proper tools but I have a few idea's tucked up my sleeve.

Anyone interested in helping out should pop along to here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14649) in a day or so, where hopefully I'll have a couple of interesting ideas to kick around

Vonotar

Thats cool but i was just going to get some programming experiance while making something for the community.(Ex. I know theres a thousand C&C clones but I want to make one someday to get experiance on ideas... since most programming techniques are learned through experiance and not a book) One question: Do you or some else know how to put data into a middle of a file and not just the ending(my only thing holding me back from making the program) :confused: :D

I've put 1.17b version on top of the thread since it's definitly an easier installation and people generally enjoyed changes in rules.

Sorry if I don't come often in here... it's my exam period, I have to study !!

By the way Vonotar, I haven't understood the story of 1.17b upgrade, please send me a mail to explain what is that. :)

bye everyone !

Easy question.

Any one have any idea on how to get this map working on a Mac installation of the game?

If so, I'd appreciate any info...

Originally posted by Aramanthes
Easy question.
Oooh goody, I like easy questions
Any one have any idea on how to get this map working on a Mac installation of the game?
If so, I'd appreciate any info...
That's an interesting question... now where's the easy one that you promised :lol:

OK, I've assumed that the MAC version is laid out in the same way as the Windows version, download the attachment below and read the Worldmap.txt file for instructions. As far as I know there is no utility for changing the civ's start positions that is MAC compatible, so you may have to resort to the old "reload until your in the right position, and hope some of the AI are too" method!

You'll have to do some editing of files yourself, instructions are in the Worldmap.txt file

Originally posted by Vonotar
That's an interesting question... now where's the easy one that you promised :lol:
Maybe I should've said an easy question followed by an interesting question...

I assumed that Does any one know...? was the easy part.

The How? was the interesting part...

OK, I've assumed that the MAC version is laid out in the same way as the Windows version, download the attachment below and read the Worldmap.txt file for instructions.

You'll have to do some editing of files yourself, instructions are in the Worldmap.txt file [/B]
Yeah...Everything that I've seen so far looks like it's laid out the same...

I guess the next question is... Do the Windows editing tools that people have come up with detail the file formats used?

Thanks for the info!

i dont know if any one has made mention of this yet, but.. shouldnt there be some sort of Tobacco Luxury Resource? If not for the regular game it certainly would make sense to have it for a world map. It was very significant in the European colonizations of North America. And i know the Native Americans made good use of it prior to that.

I dont know if its possible to add another luxury.. probably would disrupt everything to replace an existing resource with Tobacco. but i think its something to consider, if you can add luxuries that is :)

I use tobaco as the new world incense.

Really neat map..played it..a bit.
I'm on mac and downloaded the nonwindows.zip version..I installed it, and everything went fine. I started a new game, and played a long while, but sadly, then the problems started appearing.
Everytime I try to load a game saved from the scenario, the game crashes,other saves work just fine, and I have tested this extensively.
I really hope there's something you could do to fix this..because it is a lovely map.
:(

Originally posted by r3b3l
Really neat map..played it..a bit.
I'm on mac and downloaded the nonwindows.zip version..I installed it, and everything went fine. I started a new game, and played a long while, but sadly, then the problems started appearing.
Everytime I try to load a game saved from the scenario, the game crashes,other saves work just fine, and I have tested this extensively.
I really hope there's something you could do to fix this..because it is a lovely map.
:(
I honestly don't have a clue, I don't have access to either a mac or the mac version of the game, so it's difficult for me to speculate as to the cause of the crashes you are experiencing
You could try sending your saved game to me and I'll see if it works at this end, other than that I can't say.
Sorry!

Originally posted by Qilue on Apolyton's Marla World Map thread
I don't mean to be negative here, but there's a minor problem relating to realism.
Iroquois will not be able to build their UU and will probably be able to build knights by the time they do get a source of horses.
Vonotar; Can I assume you consider this a non-issue?
Firaxis's own civilopedia entry for the mounted warrior says that horses were only introduced to america in the 17th century. The fact that they picked the mounted warrior as the iroquios UU again proves that they never intended us to play on maps that were accurate or that had correct starting positions.

This issue has been boiling along for a while now, so lets try to resolve it. Do we.....

A - Give the Iroquois a horse resource on the site of there capital city

B - Change the Iroquois UU to something that doesn't require horses

C - Change the Iroquois altogether into either the Inca's or the Tupi (both south american) relieving the pressure of three Civ's in N. America

Cast your votes and reasons now folks, I'll tally the results 00:00 GMT Tuesday 29th

If anyone know how to port a Windows program written in C++ to Mac, and wants to port CPT send me a message to viktor.griph@edu.norrkoping.se

The plains are a great place to raise horses. Since you can not develop resources in the game it would be a mistake to remove all horses from the America's.

The NW of the US is some of the worlds finest wine country but you didn't include it since it was not wine country until introduced by the spanish in the 17th century. I will point out that france had no wine production until introduced in about 600BC by Rome.

When you develope the tech for Horse riding shouldn't there have to be a source of horses some place? We either need to have horses in N america or do not require horses for the UU. The Iraquoise just steal all the horses they need.

BTW the first major oil producing region in the world was Pennsylvania. The oil ran out but that is where John D Rockefeller founded the Standard Oil Company.

Gameplay must not be forsaken for accuracy! Sure, north america had no horses, etc, but FUN is the final factor for deciding placement. After all, rubber was found nowhere else on the planet until it was smuggled out of the amazon basin. However, if all the rubber resources are there, one or two civs will rule the modern era by an accident of geography (or plan, as the human player would know to settler there...)

So yes, try to be accurate, but don't spoil even gameplay. I have 1.13 and it works well except for the Iroquois horse issue.

When I changed the rules with my adaption of marlas map I approached the Iroquois mounted unit like this:

1. Horses died out in N.America around 8000 B.C
2. Thus no horses in New World till the Old World cometh over, which I hope ain't too soon.
3. The Iroquois will be keen like many of the real indian tribes to trade for horses.
4. By making the mounted warrior a stronger unit it is a counter for the "crippled" Iroquois I am running versus the European etc invaders!

Essentially I'd prefer the strategic resource system to be more detailed...I'd love that you had 4 types of strategic resource:

1. Deposit that supplies one city
2. Deposit that supplies several cities
3. Deposits that are discovered later in time with advances in tech.
4. Resources that spread with trade...e.g horses, silk etc!

From a simply utilitarian POV, having a source of horses in North America allows you to patrol northern Canada for barbarians a bit more easily.

At the moment, I control most of North and South America, and noone else has shown up from Africa/Europe/Asia/etc.

I destroyed the other civs that started near me early in the game. At the moment, I don't have any military units that have a movement > 1, and it takes a long time to build all those roads.

One other comment: After removing large chunks of forest in North and South America, there are almost no resource-planes (grassland? whatever the green squares are called). Not really a problem, just rather annoying.

Then don't remove the forest!
Honestly! It's the believe that you can just cut down trees and find perfect grassland underneath thats responsible for all the extra desert and scrubland in the world!

Vonotar

Great map! My Persians are nearing total control of the planet. Have a question though:

What is the total land area or land tile count of this map?

I have all victories turned off except for conquest and domination. I have eliminated all other civs except the Chinese, but they are so big that it's going to take a loooooong time to finish them off. :rolleyes:

I hold about 423,000 sq. miles of land (4,230 tiles) currently. Does anyone know if I am close to a domination victory?

(just bonk me on the head and point me to a link if this has been talked about already)

Thanks Marla for this good world map
i love this map

Can you make please europe a little bit greater i think its to small ;)
When i play Germany i have no places to expand

I hold about 423,000 sq. miles of land (4,230 tiles) currently. Does anyone know if I am close to a domination victory?

Well, I'm not going to go count all the land squares, but here's my estimate:

The map size is 204 X 256 = 52,224 tiles
Guessing that 30% is land based on the fact that the earth is 70% water than 52,224 x .3 = 15,667 tiles
Need 66%? for domination victory than 15,667 x .66 = 10,340

I don't know if my math is wrong, but it doesn't seem right. Otherwise, you need to double the territory you already have! :confused:

Originally posted by Bamspeedy

Well, I'm not going to go count all the land squares, but here's my estimate:
The map size is 204 X 256 = 52,224 tiles
Guessing that 30% is land based on the fact that the earth is 70% water than 52,224 x .3 = 15,667 tiles
Need 66%? for domination victory than 15,667 x .66 = 10,340
I don't know if my math is wrong, but it doesn't seem right. Otherwise, you need to double the territory you already have! :confused:

Your maths is wrong... altho the map is quoted as being 204x256 you have to remember that the only valid co-ordinates are either a pair of two even numbers or a pair of two odd numbers

e.g.
1,1
2,2
3,3
4,4 are valid

1,4
2,5
3,6 are invalid

based on that 204x256 is really 204x128 = 26112
therefore assuming 30% is land of which you need 66%

26112*.30*.66=5170

which sounds far more reasonable

I wanna play on that map where Greenland is the size of South America and where Alaska is as big as Australia!

is it just me or has anyone else been having trouble with the correct start locations thing and this new patch? each time i try to load the "fixed" saved file i get an error box going on about a TILE error. any help or advice would be appreciated.

Aye, 5170 sounds much closer. I've covered 4806 tiles presently. I'll let this post know what the final land count is for domination victory.

Thanks! :)

Statistcis for Marla's Map
Land: 6875 (26.3%)
Water: 19237 (73.7%)
Total: 26112

6875 * .66= 4538 Needed for domination

Originally posted by Axel
is it just me or has anyone else been having trouble with the correct start locations thing and this new patch? each time i try to load the "fixed" saved file i get an error box going on about a TILE error. any help or advice would be appreciated.
There is a new version of CPT in the CPT therad.

Originally posted by Gramphos

There is a new version of CPT in the CPT therad.
You would also need to change the shortcut on the start menu, as the new version of cpt requires long filenames to be encased in quotes........

I've spent most of the weekend pulling my hair out over the Civ3Edit program (why do they email you to say a new patch is out, but not email you to say that the patch needs patching!! :rolleyes: ).

For those who don't know, if you downloaded the first version of Firaxis' 1.17f you will need to download a corrected civ3edit.exe, cos the one in the patch is wrong (and totally screwed up my first attempt to create 1.18 of marlas map!). Maybe when 1.18f appears they can get it right first time :rolleyes:

1.18 is now available at the top of the thread, what are you reading this for? GO GET IT! :D

Upgrade from either V1.17 or V1.17b to V1.18

No real changes, but compatible with Firaxis 1.17f Patch

Upgrade (124Kb)

It's a great map but there are a few improvements which could be made (for France) :
Rheims should be spelled Reims
Napoleon could be Napoléon and Joan d'Arc must be Jeanne d'Arc
You could change the French color too... I think they should be blue like in Civ II... they would look better than in pink ;)
(sorry for my terrible english)

Mine crashed. No matter what reload I restart, it crashes about 1240. Always same turn...
V1.16
Happened with Marlas oribinal map, at about the same point, but that one restarted when I downloaded the patch 1.16.

Thanks for the upgrade

I recently downloaded the latest, 1.18, version of the map, and I use the latest, 1.17f, patch for Civ3.

I have a major problem though. I decided to play as the Zulu, and I also used the "starting positions" fix. Now it seems that my only city refuses to build settlers. It builds warriors and archers and stuff just as it should, but it just counts down the turns until the settler's supposed to be ready, and stops there.

To check, I started a game without using the starting positions fix, and then there was no problem.

Please help me. I'd really like to try the map.

I've just put the 1.18 version at the top of the thread... well, I have nothing else to say actually...

First of all I want to say this is a great map, even though I have to wait a long time later on in the game for end of turn. I was wondering if its possible for someone to or has already made a map of the world like Marla's with all the major cities of the world today already in place in its geographical position. So as to create a scenario of what if you would take over a major country today. To take control of a country as if you were elected today. Just a thought, was wondering if anyone is interested in such a situation.

Originally posted by Sven
I recently downloaded the latest, 1.18, version of the map, and I use the latest, 1.17f, patch for Civ3.

I have a major problem though. I decided to play as the Zulu, and I also used the "starting positions" fix. Now it seems that my only city refuses to build settlers. It builds warriors and archers and stuff just as it should, but it just counts down the turns until the settler's supposed to be ready, and stops there.

To check, I started a game without using the starting positions fix, and then there was no problem.

Please help me. I'd really like to try the map.
Are you sure that your city is size 3 or bigger?

If so, can you post the save (zipped)?

Hoppas att du inte tar illa vid dig för den första frågan ;), men det kan bli rätt många sparningsfiler att kolla på om man inte ställer sådana frågor.

I worked it out. It seems that it now requires three population to build a settler...(you probably knew this already) is that because of the patch, or because of the map rules?

Thanks, but like I said, the game (?) now requires cities to be at least size 4.

Originally posted by Sven
Thanks, but like I said, the game (?) now requires cities to be at least size 4.
Nu när du säger det, så tror jag att Marla ändrade det för att minska AI Expansionen.

I just registered to the forums to post this, so I pray that one of you chaps will be able to help.

I have a 1.17 patched version of the game itself, I downloaded Marlas newest (1.18) world map scenerio, now -- whenever I load up the Fixed.sav (for correct starting positions), it spits back some TILE error message.
I have tried everything I can to get those civs placed, but it just refuses.

(I don't edit anything, I wouldn't have a clue if I wished to.)

Any pointers?
To be able to have a game with realistic starts on an actual world map must be the bees knees, and I would very much like to be able to.

Thanks alot.
And these forums are very nice. Great job by everyone involved.

I had the same problem, but after downloading the 1.18 update, it now works perfectly with 1.17f.

How big is the map? When I downloaded it, it was tiny. Is there a way to make it bigger?

Originally posted by The Art of War
How big is the map? When I downloaded it, it was tiny. Is there a way to make it bigger?

TINY?:eek:

Everybody else says it too big???

You sure your in the right place?

Vonotar

Okay, here is what happened. I downloaded the map and installed it. Whenever I get to the Customize Your World screen, I selected "Huge" for world size. So after I followed the directions and selected the option to put the civs in the right starting place, I, the Romans, ended up in the North Pacific, on water, not land. When I went back and just left everything the same and "Tiny" was selected as map size, it worked right. So, does the size thing matter for custom maps?

Yuo should not get to customize world screen.

There is only one size map in any scenario...

:lol: basically when the game asks if you want to customize the world map what it really means is... "Do you want to totally ignore the map you've spent time downloading and let me make up a random one off the top of my head"

:D Naturally you should choose not to customize the map, therefore getting the correct map as Marla intended....

:cool: The only real use of the customize option would be if you wanted to play on a random map, but with Marla's altered rules... Naturally if your playing a random map the correct start location tool won't put you in the correct locations.....

Hope this explains things

Vonotar

hmmmm...

Your either a very quick poster or you haven't read my last note yet...

You posted about 6 seconds after I did :lol:

Okay, thanks. :lol:

Is there a smaller version of this map? This one is unplayable after about 1200 AD

Will this map work with older versions of civ3... if not can someone post it or e-mail it to me at snake_3017@c4.com

Today I tested korn`s Blitz Mod v1.06. The 'colonists' in his mod are not able to cross mountain tiles! Thus it should be possible to
do the same with tundra and desert tiles in marla's map.

@korn: if you read this maybe you can post how you did it.

Thanks!

Congratulations, Marla. Your map is one of 4 to be posted at the civ3.com site. (it happens to be the 4th of 4) also posted were ringworld, imperialism and one of the game board ones...

Help! I MUST get this map working for the map. But all the save games made with it just behave weird and crash. :confused:

Someone please port it (I have some programming knowledge,but not enough I'm sure... even so, e-mail me the basic way the map works, if you want, at thomasash@mac.com)

:love:

Is it this map, or something else....: My leaders can't build armies and my tanks can't attack more than once.

Never mind this post...

First off, a very cool map. A lot better than the released version. The only slight problem I have though is that the Bosporus/Marmara Sea is blocked off meaning that you can't move ships from the Black Sea to the Agean and Med without building a canal city.

Histroically- having to build Constantinople on the straits is kinda correct but if you're trying to go for a historically correct world, having to have the USSR own the city doesn't really fit.

Likewise the Gulf of Finland is represented by two lake and effectively landlocks St. Petersburg if you build it in the correct position.

Aside from deleting some of the land sqaures is there any way to modify it so you don't get that really annoying sliver of land between the sqaures, blocking off ship access? Apologies if this has already been covered in an update but I didn't see anything in the thread and I haven't had a chance to download the latest versions yet.

Thanks.

would it be possible to post just the map, without any mod changes?

Originally posted by Exsanguination
would it be possible to post just the map, without any mod changes?

www.civ3.com

(Yes it's that popular!)

I just changed the Iriquos to the Spanish. Does anyone know how to put them in spain?

i have the same problem with cities not producing settlers. but the cause of the problem lies in the food production of the city changing when you're off doing things elsewhere on the map.if you set a city to "no growth" it will change and go into disorder, eventually. if you set a city for "growth", and set production for a settler to coincide with the growth, the city will change to no growth and stop at pop2 or maybe pop1. when this happens a settler can not be produced. i was just going to ask about this when i read the reply.i can attach my save, but i'm not sure it will do you any good. maybe..oops. i can't send the file. i play civ3 on my server, and we can't get there from here. next time. i've described the problem well enough.

I neeeeeeeed to get this version but I can't download it (something in the attachment does not work on my computer or whatever... damn... I HATE COMPUTERS!).

Can anybody show me an alternative download site for v 1.18 or send the map as an email???

You can also download v1.18 here:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/marla_map_118.zip

Marla,
I love the map, and I've finished my first game with it. Now I'm moving onto Norm's HUGE European map. It's really cool but the .c3b file he's attached for correct starting positions isn't working. I don't know how you got your self-extracting thing for your world map, but if you could share with the world how you did it, or go ahead and make one for Norm's great Europe map, that would be fantastic!:goodjob:

Jordan

Gramphos made a tool to place your civs. It's called the Civ Placement Tool. It makes a text file you can edit to give starting positions. I downloaded it at Apolyton, but it must be here somewhere, too...

It is included with the Civ3 Save Game Editor, iirc.

I love this map! Really awesome. Only one problem however, and I dont think it is your fault, but I require your thoughts.

Using the Civ 3 multitool, I took your map out of your BIC, and put it in my own customized BIC. The operation is "successful", but when I enter the game, every water square is considered fresh water, and I am unable to build any "coastal installation" or naval units.

I have messed with it for quite awhile, and am now asking my fellow civ 3'ers for suggestions.

Thanks

GIDustin

As topic says, Does this map work with v1.21f ?

I could install it now and find out but currently have a game deep in play and dont want to stuff around and risk losing it, dont really feel like going thru the uninstall/install routine either. So does anyone know, will this map work okay under the new v1.21f?

Cheers,
OZeight