Just a couple of questions for the GOTM & COTM staff about the future:

1. Will there be a special end of year game for either COTM or GOTM?

2. Do you plan on using some of the old GOTM units (Mongol Riders, Minoan Peltasts, Chinese Junks, etc) again in future GOTMs?

3. Any plans to incorporate new units (Trebuchet, TOW Infantry, Cruiser, etc) from COTM to GOTM?

4. Is the QSC challenge likely to continue, be replaced by a similar system or be eliminated?

5. Any plans to have games with directed victory conditions or variants as optional awards in the future?

6. Any plans to incorporate special Conquests units (MG Battalion, Cataphract, etc) from the scenarios to GOTM or COTM?

7. Any plans to change the Vanilla flavor of COTM with new units, resources or tribes?

8. Are the tournaments dead?

9. There was talk earlier in the year of a Game of the Quarter, either for those time limited or on larger maps, is this still a possibility?

I want to thank all of the GOTM, COTM & SGOTM staff for providing a wonderful and challenging place to enjoy the CIV expierence. :hatsoff: :clap:

Just a couple of questions for the GOTM & COTM staff about the future:

1. Will there be a special end of year game for either COTM or GOTM?
I certainly have a special GOTM game planned, and a 'sort-of' special Conquest game as well.


2. Do you plan on using some of the old GOTM units (Mongol Riders, Minoan Peltasts, Chinese Junks, etc) again in future GOTMs? Possibly. Certainly the first step is to get the units etc together into a decent download pack that 1.) works and 2.) is easy to install.

3. Any plans to incorporate new units (Trebuchet, TOW Infantry, Cruiser, etc) from COTM to GOTM? Can't do that directly, but maybe 'equivalents'.

4. Is the QSC challenge likely to continue, be replaced by a similar system or be eliminated?This is Alan and my priority at the moment. We have a utility to extract the scores (needs a bit more attention), and a few tweaks need to be made to the scoring system. We are getting there though!

5. Any plans to have games with directed victory conditions or variants as optional awards in the future? I hadn't planned on it, because it tends to really start skewing the pantheon of heroes (eg I have a 'fastest conquest' award, which isn't really deserved IMHO... However, if there is support to do that again...

6. Any plans to incorporate special Conquests units (MG Battalion, Cataphract, etc) from the scenarios to GOTM or COTM? Isn't the cataphract already an 'equivalent' unit in the vanilla version?

7. Any plans to change the Vanilla flavor of COTM with new units, resources or tribes? It really comes down to whether people want modded games or standard games - there is a diversity of opinion on this. In the medium term, we will continue to work through the remaining conquests civs, then perhaps a couple of old civs with new traits. What do peopel want?


8. Are the tournaments dead?

I don't think we have time for them! Two games a month plus a SGOTM - doesn't leave much room for anything else.

9. There was talk earlier in the year of a Game of the Quarter, either for those time limited or on larger maps, is this still a possibility? Maybe - could be where to put the modded games!


I want to thank all of the GOTM, COTM & SGOTM staff for providing a wonderful and challenging place to enjoy the CIV expierence. :hatsoff: :clap:Thanks. :)


Overall, we'll weigh up what the staff want to do / can do against what the players want. :)

4. Is the QSC challenge likely to continue, be replaced by a similar system or be eliminated?
And Dianthus has added QSC scoring to his suite as well (stats and crpmapstat I believe) - another good reason to kick the QSC back into life! :hatsoff:

And Dianthus has added QSC scoring to his suite as well (stats and crpmapstat I believe) - another good reason to kick the QSC back into life! :hatsoff:
Thanks for the mention ainwood. Yes, some QSC scoring info has been added to both CRpMapStat and CRpStats. CRpMapStat just shows the current QSC Score. CRpStats tabulates the QSC score with a row per turn and columns to break the score down into the following sub-components:

Gold/Shields/Food
Contact/Embassies
Techs
Territories
Towns/Cities/Metropoli
Buildings
Citizens
Units


Hopefully it will give the same values as your scoring utility :mischief:.

I personally would not like to see a monthly download for COTM like we had for GOTM. Modding withing the editor/bic file = yes, please if there is a good idea that adss flavor. Modding with additional download packs would get a please not from me.

With good idea that add flavor I can think of midified AI civ, name changes like in the GOTM that underlied the SGOTM3, but leave the general game rules intact.

I like the idea of those alternative victory conditions, like cracker put into one of those tournament games a bit back...it was like an Economic victory or something like that, needed to have like 10,000 gold and +150 gpt or something.

I agree with grs.
I really like playing w/o the modpacks. Mostly due to the fact that I play on several comps, so instead of installing the mods on all comps, I can just throw in my USB memory stick with the save on it and get going.

For the time being, I don't think any modding of C3C is necessary. The cotm isn't half done exploring its basic features.

I personally would not like to see a monthly download for COTM like we had for GOTM. Modding withing the editor/bic file = yes, please if there is a good idea that adss flavor. Modding with additional download packs would get a please not from me.

With good idea that add flavor I can think of midified AI civ, name changes like in the GOTM that underlied the SGOTM3, but leave the general game rules intact.

I agree!
The monthly downloads were one of the reasons I stopped playing the GOTM last fall. Please don't re-introduce them... The extra, new units change gameplay, and I like unmodded civ3 best!

I can only agree with what several have already said. I would really prefer not to have to download mod files. I really like the core C3C as it is now.

I like the idea about a end of year special!

One more vote against modpack downloads !

Can I please ask people to clarify the discussions around modpacks?

Is the problem that we have modpacks that are a bit buggy, and there is too much mucking around with them, or is it that you simply don't want them? Is it a download size issue? Is it that you don't want them in C3C, or that you don't want them in PTW/Civ either? Is it download size?

I'm happy with modpaks, so long as they're easy to install and not buggy. I'm not too worried about size. Generally the normal GOTM was (past tense because I've only got time for CGOTM ATM) OK as only 1 install needed to be downloaded to continue playing the next months game, but it's definitely a PITA when you're installing from scratch and have to install upteen different ones.

The modpacks for vanilla civ were a pain. I think I don't need to go into that very far, but just mention swapping resource icons, missing entries in perdiaicons, crashes due to missing files, etc. That does not mean to sound rude, but I doubt that with two games running the staff will get both to work correct with modpacks. Reviving the QSC - with a fully implemented scoring system - would be much more important to me.

Have always played the GOTM in PTW, so I have not had problems with the modpaks. They have always installed properly and have added additional flavor to the games. Even though I am on dialup, size is not an issue either because I simply set the download up and go do other things, usually sleep, while it completes. These modpaks have been a big plus as far as I am concerned.

I am going to find out about vanilla shortly as SGOTM4 will require modpaks to play the game and I play on a vanilla team, so my opinion may change if this becomes a nightmare, but I don't think it will. :crazyeye:

The bottom line for me is that the modded games have been very good and I have appreciated the effort put into them. However, if the requirement to download mods to participate is going to drive some out of the community because they don't like them or they don't want to change their setup, then we should think very hard about requiring them. My $0.02. :D

Can I please ask people to clarify the discussions around modpacks?

For me the issue is how easy they are to remove after use. But then, if modpacks were to come into the COTM, I think I would create an additional image of C3C, and mod that, so I always have a clean version for other games.

I am all for modpacks that add an interesting twist or challenge to the game. As I recall, installation became much more simple with PTW because mods did not alter the "epic" game, so I don't think that is an issue.

Can I please ask people to clarify the discussions around modpacks?

Is the problem that we have modpacks that are a bit buggy, and there is too much mucking around with them, or is it that you simply don't want them? Is it a download size issue? Is it that you don't want them in C3C, or that you don't want them in PTW/Civ either? Is it download size?

It is that i dont want to be mucking around with them :)

I fear it will decrease the number of participant dratically again. Think of how many people posted the the cotm3 and 4 spoiler with a postcount below even 10! I think it enriched the game to see new players in it.

COTM's increased participation is probably due to a mixture of no additional downloads and introduction of C3C. It's hard to know which of these is the main factor just from looking at those stats. I guess that's why ainwood asked the question!

COTM's increased participation is probably due to a mixture of no additional downloads and introduction of C3C. It's hard to know which of these is the main factor just from looking at those stats. I guess that's why ainwood asked the question!
Correct. :)

Conquests has enough new stuff that it doesn't need downloads, and I hadn't planned on adding any in the foreseeable future. However, when this issue was last discussed (in the Civ/PTW only competition), there was a bit of split between those that liked the modpacks, and those that didn't. At that point I thought the feeling was that the occasional mod-pack would be good to enliven things, however it should be a small download, and stand-alone (rather than cumulative). :hmm:

Is the problem that we have modpacks that are a bit buggy, and there is too much mucking around with them, or is it that you simply don't want them? Is it a download size issue? Is it that you don't want them in C3C, or that you don't want them in PTW/Civ either? Is it download size?

For single-player games, I sometimes use mods. However, I think we should keep COTM "pure". It focuses the discussions in the pre-game and spoiler threads on *strategy* rather than the mod-pack's *features*. At the moment the COTM is a great success - why change a winning team?

IMHO...

-- Roland

Maybe the way to keep everyone happy (or nobody happy) would be to keep COTM pure for those beige Saab drivers, while keep using/adding mods to the GOTM games for us bright red Porcshe drivers. :D

As a couple of others have mentioned, C3C still has a lot of new features to be explored, so modding for that should probably be a middle/late next year discussion. However, some of my favorite games have included the Asian flavor units, the special Mongol units, the Minoans and the minor tribes. Having them in the game seems to add a new toy feel to the game. I also think it's necessary to keep the PTW/Civ3 mods in place to give the Mac users a on-ramp to the highway of fun.

We have still a lot to explore for C3C.
One COTM could be a Sengoku one on a random map.
Or a mesoamerican one on a random map (should be made a little harder)
So we could keep with unmodded C3C but still have other games than normal epic games.

I think, one thing that kept (newbie) players away from late GOTMs are the rule changes and that they would have adapt to them. For Conquests they had time to play with the same rules used in COTM.

us bright red Porcshe drivers. :D.

Bright red porcshe ? :confused:
A porcshe can be black, metalic grey, even green or bleu, but not bright red. Thats just gay.

But a 100+mph Porsche on Highway 10 from LA to Vegas looks so great from a CHP helicopter. The only thing better is a silver Vette racing the Porsche.

Back on topic, I'm hoping the GOTM/COTM staff is able to balance the needs of the keep it simple crowd with those who want new toys.

To comment on an earlier Ainwood post. I had to re-install my Civ software back in July and it was a bit of a PITA to have to load all the different mod packs, so I can understand why people might be put off by it. Since I play PTW & C3C, my installation was simpler than the Civ3 people have, so I can't comment on that.

If we somehow had a one step installer that post all the needed mods in a single package, the modded games might get a better reception, especially for the newcomers.

I'm not sure if I entirely understand what is meant by using mods in the GOTM, but I do think that it might be a nice idea to have a new conquest scenario as the Conquest Of The Month. Preferably one where even the best civ players have to come up with entirely new strategies to win. But it is probably a big task to build an entirely new scenario of as high a quality as the existing conquest scenario's...

I don't think I would welcome custom scenario's or modded games each time, but it might be nice to do it once in between normal games and see how the crowd reacts.

BTW: I don't have a driver's license. :)

Alphons Rodulfo: When PTW came out it was not available to Mac players. So, since there are some new units/tribes, an download was created to allow the Mac players to keep playing GOTM.

This led to the creation of new units (killer squids to replace barbarian galleys), tribes (the Minoans with their UU the Peltast) and Asian flavor replacement units (Junk for Caravel, Otomo Spearmen for Spearmen) and technologies (Martial Arts replace Warrior Code). Also new resources (lambs, wool & pearls) were added for coastal & desert tribes. Also new minor tribes (start with 2/3 settlers but can't build anymore) were introduced.

In one game (GOTM 25) the Mongols had 4 UU units (replacing the Middle Age foot units with mounted ones).

Some people had trouble installing the Mod Packs or going back to their unmodded games and stopped playing. Some people disliked or got confused by the new units/tribes. With the growing number of Mod Packs, new players found it to be a more daunting task to catch up. However many people (myself included) found most of the new features to be quite enjoyable.

I'm hoping that a simple, one-step installer can be created and that the modding will continue (and maybe even grow) in the future.

I'm one of those that would like to try a Rise & Rule or DYP GOTM.

Thanks for explaining, Denyd.
Judging Ainwoods earlier remarks, there seems to be a chance the GOTY will be 'enhanced' to a certain extent.

I thought I'd dredge this old one back to life to review what's happened in the last 8 weeks (Sept 9 to Nov 5):

Here's my original 9 questions with added comments.

1. Will there be a special end of year game for either COTM or GOTM?

We'll see about this in about 3 weeks. Sounds like a diety GOTM for starters.

2. Do you plan on using some of the old GOTM units (Mongol Riders, Minoan Peltasts, Chinese Junks, etc) again in future GOTMs?

I temember reading about this being done (couldn't find the thread), but we haven't really seen any of those units return yet (December maybe?)

3. Any plans to incorporate new units (Trebuchet, TOW Infantry, Cruiser, etc) from COTM to GOTM?

Original answer made this seem unlikely.

4. Is the QSC challenge likely to continue, be replaced by a similar system or be eliminated?

It's back with a vengance, great job to all who helped :hatsoff:

5. Any plans to have games with directed victory conditions or variants as optional awards in the future?

Orginal answer made good points why this died a needed death.

6. Any plans to incorporate special Conquests units (MG Battalion, Cataphract, etc) from the scenarios to GOTM or COTM?

Original answer, those already in will stay, no plans to add others.

7. Any plans to change the Vanilla flavor of COTM with new units, resources or tribes?

See #6

8. Are the tournaments dead?

Original answer yes due to a full slate of GOTM/COTM/SGOTM (probably the right choice)

9. There was talk earlier in the year of a Game of the Quarter, either for those time limited or on larger maps, is this still a possibility?

Looking to 2005 to see where this one goes.

All in all not a bad eight weeks for the GOTM Staff :goodjob:

Any more comments to add to this

1. Will there be a special end of year game for either COTM or GOTM?
Yes. A GOTM one. :)

Well, I can give a newbie opinion... I think modpacks would be fun... as long as they were EASY to remove from my computer after the GOTM was over.

Danman: If you're running PTW or C3C, it's completly invisible. The new units are added as new folders in the PTW /units directory which the base game will never check for. The game supplied for GOTM has all the pointers imbedded in the SAV file, so as long as the new files are there, everything works fine.

With mods you had to be on the ball with lux. What was on the ground and what was in the city view never seemed to match. Icons jumbled.
The mods sit on the computer undisturbed. A little clutter on a large HD. I shall join in when the mod turns up, but with a new PC due, I have no enthusiasm for reloading a series of old mod packs. When next required I would hope for an all in one wonder pack as part of download.

With mods you had to be on the ball with lux. What was on the ground and what was in the city view never seemed to match. Icons jumbled.
The mods sit on the computer undisturbed. A little clutter on a large HD. I shall join in when the mod turns up, but with a new PC due, I have no enthusiasm for reloading a series of old mod packs. When next required I would hope for an all in one wonder pack as part of download.
AlanH has put together an all-in-one download pack for Mac. Sooner (or later :ack: ) we, or he, will do the same for PC.

Any future mod-packs we will try to make stand-alone packs, with the emphasis on not being too large. Remember, if I'm compiling them, I've got to upload them over dial-up :0

I hadn't planned on it, because it tends to really start skewing the pantheon of heroes (eg I have a 'fastest conquest' award, which isn't really deserved IMHO... However, if there is support to do that again...



I can see your point with the current scoring system, but the occasional disabling of certain victory conditiions that favour the player's starting civ, might be fun. I'm thinking of something like RBCiv's 'Hittite Cosmonauts' so that you would have everything disabled except Spaceship and the player would have the Mongols or Hittites against 6 scientific civs, or alternatively Egypt with only domination enabled against all militaristic civs.

Other variants such as 'always war' or 'only auto workers' would have to depend on an honour system, which would be fine with me, but might upset some of the more competitive players.

I liked the modpacks when I first started playing with them, but found they got out of hand in the old GOTM. My old hard disk crashed and I had to reinstall PTW. Never could get them working again properly after that.

COTM-6 is my first game since GOTM-26. Really enjoyed the hassle free nature of it!

That said, I really like the sound of a modified quaterly game on a large or even huge map. IMO, it'd give the extra features enough space to be shown off. Also plenty of time for ideas to be kicked around and worked out.

And thanks very much for the games! They're a lot of fun. Really appreciate the effort the staff put in. :)

One more vote against modpacks, if they have to come regularly, but I wouldn't mind to play a mod once in a while (Couldn't the Conquests scenarios files be used?)

Sorry if this was a dumb remark.:)