View Full Version : IF Alexander the Great had Lived On...


PresidentMarcos
Sep 02, 2004, 12:27 PM
There is a short story, by the second Toynbee, of what would have happened had Alexander died at 80. Do you think he could have conquered Q'in before 287 BCE as in the book?

BOTP
Sep 02, 2004, 12:35 PM
I know of plans to take Arabia and then North Africa and Carthage, but have heard of none against Rome. I don't even know if he was really that aware of it's existence. Though I'm sure once he made it to Carthage he would be making plans to take it and the Italian peninsula.

Drakan
Sep 02, 2004, 01:40 PM
i think i recall reading that emmisaries from a fledgeling Rome were sent to appease him. But I could be wrong on that.

Yoda Power
Sep 02, 2004, 03:24 PM
I have never heard of plans to conquer China, and I seriosly doubt that he would ever be able to succed.

Just my two cents.

North King
Sep 02, 2004, 03:30 PM
No, in short. Not a lasting conquest. Toynbee's work puts a bad face on good alternate history.

Eniotna
Sep 02, 2004, 04:19 PM
Alexander the Great wasn't interested in Europe. He thought that in Asia there were stronger and greater civilizations. I don't think that Rome was very big and important at that time.

jonatas
Sep 02, 2004, 04:25 PM
china no!!!!..... he would have gotten involved heavily in India, if it was up to him and not his soldiers.... india btw would have provided a handful for Alexander...
Alexander is one of the most fantastic individuals in history... he wouldn't have stopped at anything... but india would have slowed him down before ever reaching china... it would have been a question of manpower and distance from his center of power... China would have definitely been out of the question.... a thorough conquest of India would have also been out of question... Alexander's ambition was too much.. he wanted everything!

Knight-Dragon
Sep 02, 2004, 08:23 PM
If he intended to walk across the Taklamakan with his army, he'd find his army decimated before ever seeing the first Qin soldier.

As this was the age before the Empire, he would then also have to contend with the other Chinese states, as well as the soon-to-come Xiong-nu confederation.

PresidentMarcos
Sep 02, 2004, 09:34 PM
But...but...instead of going through the Taklamakan, he could have conquered Northern India and landed in SE Asia. Then, he could have marched north. In any case, I would like to see Alexander the Great trying Chinese food for the very first time...

Cuivienen
Sep 02, 2004, 09:59 PM
I think it quite likely that he would have succeeded in conquering and holding India in his second go-'round (considering that he actually won the first one but was facing a mutiny), but I also doubt that Alexander would ever have made it to China and conquered it. Greek culture would be far more pervasive in the entire world today, not just in Europe, since it is likely that Hellenistic culture would have simply adopted Indian customs just as it did Egyptian and Persian and would have come to dominate India the way it dominated the Middle East.

In modern times, it would be the Middle East, not Europe, that was the most powerful and most advanced, though colonization would have been less significant due to the optimal location of the Middle East for trade rather than conquest.

Rome would still have risen but would have faced a powerful and united Macedonian Empire and likely would have conquered more of Europe and avoided war with Macedon, though a long-standing rivalry like that of real-world Rome and Parthia would have developed.

North King
Sep 02, 2004, 11:03 PM
I don't know about India being such a pushover... Chandragupta was just uniting it around then, and I think he was just as able if not more so than Alex.

King Alexander
Sep 03, 2004, 12:16 AM
I don't think such hypothesis is credible. Who knows what Alexander the Great would have done had he not died so young.

It's futile to compare him with other generals/kings, because he did something unique inside a decade and no one ever did that again, nor is credible to say he would have been defeated by the x king; if any other king was so good to qonquer the world the way Alexander did it(within a few years), what he waited for, the midnight train?
Alexander begun from a small nation, had a few thousand soldiers and did what he did.

Historians write about his "possible" plans heard by people close to Alexander, but no one really knew what he was thinking.

North King
Sep 03, 2004, 10:02 AM
It's futile to compare him with other generals/kings, because he did something unique inside a decade and no one ever did that again, nor is credible to say he would have been defeated by the x king; if any other king was so good to qonquer the world the way Alexander did it(within a few years), what he waited for, the midnight train?
Alexander begun from a small nation, had a few thousand soldiers and did what he did.

I'd disagree. Alex was not all that good of a general; he mainly seemed to have one strategem, and one only, chare the enemy with the cavalry on one flank, and with the infantry on another. He mainly used the army that his father had created and constructed. Thus, I don't really think he was a good general, and thus I think Chandragupta or one of the Qin generals could easily beat him so far from home. He was in the right place at the right time; Greece was at its height of military supremacy, Persia was in decline.

Cataphrak
Sep 03, 2004, 08:31 PM
That and he also used the oblique Phalanx tactics of his father which could wedge into a regular phalanx, of course even if the Macadonians did reach China then they would have been outnumbered (60,000 to 130,000) out gunned (the greek fire support left something to be desired while chinese siege weapons were among the best in the world, that along with crossbows would be devastating since crossbow bolts can pierce the greek shields.)
and out classed.

P>S> the Qin dynasty was founded in 221 BC, thats 110 years after alexander's death

Dann
Sep 04, 2004, 04:05 AM
The Qin imperial dynasty was indeed founded in 221 BC, but it's predecessor, the Qin Kingdom was already around during Alexander's time, as one of the 7 major powers of the Warring Kingdoms era.

PresidentMarcos
Sep 04, 2004, 11:46 AM
Hmm. So, in all probability, it was possible, but not likely. Still, even if he failed on his campaign to conquer China, he would have changed history. Many things Chinese would have travelled westward with his retreating armies. Technology, philosophy, literature, etc. This would probably have speeded up the rate of technological advance significantly...