Conquest 04: First Spoiler [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

grs

Sep 05, 2004, 04:14 PM

Open

I started as I said in the pre-game discussion by moving the worker nw. It revealed another bonus grassland and the river continuing nw. I had two reasons to do so: 1st I did not believe in a river near the wheat - just because nothing indicated it and why should I make a wild guess when the start was already that good? 2nd I was going for a 20k culture win and there was no need for me to irrigate the wheat anyhow. I would not ever build a granary - besides the big one - so +4 food and one more shield was not worse than +5 food, as I need 20 food for growth and it devides by 4 or 5. After that I would be above size 6 anyways.

Settler went ne and settled on the river. The alternative settling n, would (from what I could see then) make me miss one bg. I wanted forests and hills in my capital - which will serve as the 20k city - so ne was the obvious choice for me.

My building plans:

Build some warriors to explore, early temple, one settler from the capital then start on wonders. I aimed for the following ancient age wonders (while building all 3 cultural improvements of course): The Pyramids, The Oracle, The Mausoleum of Mausolos, The Great Library, The Hanging Gardens.

My research plans:

Get the needed techs to build wonders in time while doing an extremely delayed Republic Slingshot. To be specific: ceremonial burial - mysticism - alphabet - writing - code of laws - philosophy - republic - literature and then, after getting techs from The Great Library, the rest of the ancient age techs.

How it worked out:

Research was set to ceremonial burial at max, then mysticism at max. From F10 it would be far more probable to buy alphabet than ceremonial burial or mysticism soon. I built 2 warriors then started the pyramids as pre-build for a temple. After that I slotted in a 3rd warrior, to get growth and production in line for the settler, who was next.

First contacts were the Aztechs in 3350BC and I got warrior code + 10g for Masonry. I did this mainly for the 10 gold, I needed to keep research at max after having the temple drain maintenance. In 3250BC I met the Americans who already had ceremonial burial, which I learned myself two turns later. Spain was met in 2630BC. Spain had alphabet but would not trade for anything I had until I learned mysticism in 2270BC. I traded mysticism, pottery, masonry for alphabet + 10 gold to Spain. This may seem a horrible trade, but all I wanted was alphabet and as much gold as I can get. As I had a hard time getting barb huts (only two in the whole game) I needed the gold, so I could keep research up.

I then researched writing, code of laws and philophy at max and completed the Republic Slingshot in 1025BC, then started on literature after which research was switched off. I did not revolt immediately, because I still was in my golden age from building The Pyramids. I meanwhile met the Iroquis in 1575BC. I revolted in 800BC and became a republic in 690BC.

I had a short war for land with the Aztechs, because they placed a city two turns before my settler was in postion. There was only 1 reg warrior which was killed by one of my javelin throwers. I killed two more units and made straight peace in 850BC. I got bronze working, the wheel, iron working, horseback riding, polytheism and monarchy from the Great Library in 350BC, researched costruction and currency and entered the middle ages in 170BC.

Settling:

After exploring I planned for an inital core of 7 cities, claiming silks, spices, horses and iron. I razed the Aztech town next to the horses without knowing it and rushed a settler for the iron once it appeared on the map. I completed my "expansion" phase in 250BC.

Exploring:

I used the 3 initial warriors to explore the land and built about a dozen suicide curraghs to meet civs on another continent. I was successfull around 250BC and stoped building ships from then on. All other curraghs were sunk by barbs later on, but the one that successfully crossed and which I upgraded over time was kept till the end of the game.

Culture buildings in Chichén Itza:

Palace 3950BC
Temple 3050BC
Pyramids 1450BC
Oracle 1075BC
Mausoleum 825BC
Great Library 370BC
Library 310BC
Colosseum 250BC

I missed the Hanging Gardens which were surprisingly completed by the Americans in 390BC. They had to switch their Temple of Artemis build after another civ completed that. I am quite sure some AI got that tech from a hut, but who knows the ways of the AI. I started the Great Wall instead and finished it a few turns into the middle ages.

Roland Ehnström

Sep 05, 2004, 04:16 PM

COTM04_Open

In short: A good start for me! The only bad thing was that the Americans beat me to the nice grassland+river location NE of Chichén Itza, when my Settler was going that way (2190 BC). At the end of the Ancient Times I am leading in tech, territory and population, and have a decent military. We've hooked up the Spices and the Silks, and we have both Horses and Iron. It's looking very good for the future!

*** Ancient Times ***

4000 BC - Worker W to Wheat. Sees coast further W. Settler NE.

3950 BC - Settler founds Chichén Itza. Our scientists start researching Alphabet at 20% (50 turns).

3800 BC - Worker starts Road.

3650 BC - Our first Warrior meet the Atztecs. We trade our knowledge of Masonry for Warrior Code and 10 Gold with them.

3450 BC - We meet the Americans, who wander in from the north. They have Alphabet, but won't trade it for Warrior Code and 45 Gold. But they do accept to trade Ceremonial Burial for Warrior Code.

3000 BC - Copán founded. We trade Ceremonial Burial for Bronze Working with the Aztecs.

2590 BC - Chichén Itza completes Granary, opens 4-6 Settler factory (or perhaps it's called 4-5, as the town never reaches size 6 for a full turn). Settlers are pumping out every 4 turns from now on, with some micro-management).

2350 BC - We discover Alphabet.

2230 BC - Spain drops in from the north. We have exactly the same techs, so no trade is possible. Palenque founded on the coast.

2190 BC - Damn, the Americans found a town where our fourth Settler was going! Aztecs have The Wheel, but we won't trade Alphabet to them just yet.

2070 BC - The Spaniards have Iron Working, but we have nothing to offer them.

2030 BC - Our fourth Settler founds Tikal. Our fifth Settler founds Yaxchilán.

1990 BC - The Carib tribe teaches us Mysticism! The Aztecs will not accept Mysticism and 49 Gold for The Wheel. Neither do the Spaniards for Iron Working.

- After the first 2000 years we are in the lead in score. We also lead in population (18% of total world population). We have 5 Towns, a total of 11 Pop, 2 Workers and 4 Warriors. Not surprisingy, our military is "weak" compared to the others we have met, but we are technologically advanced. Writing is due in 9 turns.

1950 BC - Chichén Itza completes our sixth Settler and now starts some 2-turn Workers.

1910 BC - Copán completes Granary, starts Warrior.

1830 BC - Palenque completes our firsth Curragh, which heads north along the east coast. Our sixth Settler founds Bonampak in the Desert south of the Spices.

1750 BC - We get Iron Working and 20 Gold from the Spaniards for Mysticism. Then we get The Wheel for Iron Working, Mysticism and 11 Gold from the Aztecs. We have Horses secured under Palenque, nice! There is Iron 3 tiles W, NW of Copán. We'll send our next Settler that way.

1725 BC - We've hooked up the Spices. Yaxchilán completes it's Curragh, which moves north along the west coast. Yaxchilán starts Javelin Thrower, to keep an eye on the Barbarian Camp south of the town.

1675 BC - We discover Writing. Start Code of Laws (14 turns).

1625 BC - The Americans start building The Oracle.

1575 BC - Lagartero founded next to the Iron.

1500 BC - Our Curragh on the west coast is sunk by a Barbarian Galley. We meet the Iroquois - they are backwards.

1400 BC - The Iron is hooked up.

1375 BC - We discover Code of Laws. Philosophy is 6 turns away. We found Quiriguá and Calakmul in the north, trying to cut the Americans and Spaniards off the north-western peninsula. Of course, I doubt that they'll care about not walking on our soil to get there...

1225 BC - We discover Philosophy, and get The Republic as a bonus. Our Civilization is descending into Anarchy. We trade Philosophy for Mathematics and 108 Gold with the Spaniards.

1200 BC - Lazapa founded to the north-east, wedging in to the American land.

1175 BC - Kaminaljuyú founded in the middle of the north-western peninsula. Our Curragh takes the plunge towards promising seas, but disappointingly finds no land on the other side.

1150 BC - Our Curragh lives, and returns to shore.

1125 BC - The Aztecs kill the Barbarians in "our" Camp!

1100 BC - After a 5-turn Anarchy, we are a Republic. Piedras Negras founded on the west coast. We are currently researching Currency, which is due in 7 turns.

1075 BC - We get Horseback Riding and 33 Gold from America for Philosophy. We still have a monopoly on Code of Laws.

1000 BC - Uaxactún founded W of our capital.

QSC stats:

13 Towns
39 Pop

1 Settler
6 Workers (yes, too few, but Chichén Itza is now pumping out Workers every 2 turns)
7 Warriors
2 Javelin Throwers
1 Curragh

3 Barracks
2 Temples
2 Granaries

All Ancient age techs except Currency (due in 3 turns), Construction, Map Making, Polytheism, Literature and Monarchy

Republic Goverment
4 contacts (Aztecs, America, Spain and Iroquois)
92 Gold

http://www.ehnstrom.se/roland/diverse/COTM04_1000BC.jpg

950 BC - Currency discovered. We are now Code of Laws, Currency and The Republic ahead of everyone else on the continent, and even Philosophy ahead of Iroquois and Aztecs.

900 BC - Cuello founded down in the south west. Our people want to build Forbidden Palace. Copán is already building a little pre-build for this, and switches.

825 BC - We give the Aztecs Philosophy, Code of Laws and a little gold for Map Making.

730 BC - The Americans complete The Oracle in Washington.

650 BC - We discover Construction and start researching Polytheism. The Iroquois demand Philosophy as a tribute. We think hard about it, and finally decide to give it to them. We have no interest in fighting the Iroquios at this moment (our sights are secretly set on America, for now), and Philosophy isn't worth much now anyway.

630 BC - Iroquios complete Mausoleum of Mausollos in Salamanca.

570 BC - The annoying Aztecs demand Currency as a tribute. We're already sending our main military north east to invade America, so we have to give in to Montezuma's demands. We'll get them for this... Oh yes, we'll get them for this... We sell Currency to the other civs for whatever they can pay (otherwise, Aztecs would surely do it, and we don't want them to make money from OUR tech!). By hiring a bunch of scientists, we get Polytheism down to 1 turn.

550 BC - Copán completes Forbidden Palace. WE DISCOVER POLYTHEISM AND ENTER THE MIDDLE AGES!

An even more detailed version of the log up until 1000 BC is attached to this post.

-- Roland

Sandman2003

Sep 05, 2004, 05:47 PM

Open

Early moves, as per pre-game spoiler, were settler NE, worker road then irrigate where he stood, and then on to the wheat. The early builds were warrior, worker, warrior, granary, settler. There was an obvious 4-turn settler pump up for grabs which I did not see any point in deviating from. At some point during the expansion phase, I missed reallocating the forest tile after an expansion, resulting in a drop of pop to the three level. I think this may have changed the settler pump into a five turn factory from that point, but I wasn't overly concerned.

Tech wise, we started min research on alphabet which we ended up trading for, and then writing, code of laws and philosophy at max to get the slingshot to republic. We met the starting continent tribes fairly quickly, and contacted America, then the Aztecs, the Spainish and finally the Iroquois in that order.

By 1000BC.
12 cities
1 settler
6 workers
9 warriors
4 horsemen
6 javelin throwers
2 curragh (one suicide lost)

4 barracks
1 granary

One turn of anarchy remaining until republic (we drew 4 turn anarchy)
Tech missing construction, currency, map making, literature, polytheism and monarchy from AA.

Wars
By about this time, it was clear that we were running out of expansion space, and it was time to resort to the sword, or in this case, rather the horse. The real question was who to attack first. I decided that the Americans had most encroached on Mayan territory with their settlements, and so in 800BC declared war. We had about a dozen horses and a half dozen javelin throwers at this time. The javelin throwers were there only to make a cameo to trigger a golden age, and this happened in 750BC. In 570BC we gave the Americans peace for all but their last two cities.

We spent the next few turns repositioning forces, so that in 490BC we could declare on the Aztecs.

Wonders
The only AA wonder we decided to try and build was the great lighthouse, to help our non-seafaring civ in locationg the other continent. As it turned out, we actually didn't start on this work soon enough, and lost out to the Germans early in the MA.

430BC saw us learn polytheism and enter the MA. Our world at the time:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SMCOTM04_430BC.jpg
Our military 25 horses, 12 javelins, 9 warriors, 1 galley.

Birdjaguar

Sep 05, 2004, 06:03 PM

It's now 440 AD:
I'm researching engineering (know Fuedalism too)
Tech lead among known civs
In my golden age
Republican Government
I have 1743 in culture (GL is my only wonder, built in 370 AD)
30 cities including 4 captured American ones
Just ended my first war (against America) while allied with Iroquois and Spain

I control:
2 horses (1 in Aztec land)
2 iron (1 in Aztec land)
3 spices (2 in Aztec land)

Have contacted Byzantines
Scores:
Maya 736
Aztec 658
America 544
Iroquois 543
Byzantium 530
Spain 368

My strategy has been to expand without war through the AA. I control the entire center of the continent, splitting America, iroquois and Spain. I have two cities controling the Aztec horses and iron and three more cities on the north end of their western pennisula. The Aztec capital is right on their northern border. The Aztecs will be my next target since they do not have either iron or horses. The recent war pretty much put America out of contention she's down to about 6 cities and still fighting Spain and Iroquois.

MiniMe

Sep 05, 2004, 06:12 PM

Opening moves: worker roads grassland where he started, then irrigates it to be able to irrigate the wheat. Settler moves NE and founds Cichen Itza. Builds Warrior - Warrior - Granary.

3600BC - Meet Aztec. Trade Masonry for Warrior Code + 10g.

3550BC - Wheat is irrigated and 2 turns to culture expansion.

3350BC - Meet America. I give them Warrior Code for 35g

2800BC - Granary done.

2630BC - First Settler ready.

1910BC - Meet Iroquois. Trade Masonry and Warrior Code for Alphabet and Bronze Working.

1100BC - Discover Philosphy (after Code of Laws). Get Republic as free tech. I start transition right away. 4 turns anarchy.

1000BC - Republic.

12 cities (31 pop)
1 settler
11 native workers
16 warriors
1 spearman
7 chariots
1 granary
4 barracks

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cotm34_1000BC.JPG

Missing: Construction, Currency, Literacy (10 turns), MapMaking, Polytheism, Horseback Riding, Monarchy

950BC - Trade for MapMaking (Aztec) and Polytheism (Amercicans).

700BC - Discover Currency

410BC - Discover Construction. Trade for Horseback Riding. Enter Middle Ages!

klarius

Sep 05, 2004, 06:15 PM

Predator

Settled NE as planned.
Initial builds were 2 warriors, worker, granary then settlers.
Science alphabet 100%
3600 meet Aztecs and trade WC+10g for masonry.
3100 meet Americans. No techs.
2590 meet Spain. Get alpha,CB and BW. Start writing 100%
2550 Copan founded on silks
2390 found Palenque near spices
2270 Trade TW from Aztecs. Gift everyoone to tech parity.
2190 Tikla founded on coast. Builds curragh
1950 Buy IW from spain
1870 writing completes->Col
1830 meet Iroquois, trade-gift them to tech parity
1625 trade writing around for myst and some gold
1525 Col completes -> philo. Trade HBR from Spain.
1375 slingshot philo->republic, revolt for 3-turn anarchy
1200 literature researched->poly , trade math from Iroquois, gift republic to Americans and declare war (I want their gems). Ally the others for republic.
1125 iron connected
1075 poly researched->currency
1025 two combat settlements towards the american gems. I will get them even if I fail on Washington. Trade MM from Aztecs.
1000 autrazed Atlanta, the american horse town
900 gems connected, still no luck with Washington. Currency complete->construction
775 start golden age with the only JT I will build in the whole game.
Bad RNG at Washington. Lost several horsies and WW kicks in.
730 Construction completes. We are in MA.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/klarius_cotm4_1.jpg

Still a lot black coastline. These damn barb galleys sunk 3 curraghs and 2 galleys.
I will soon make peace with America, then a little bit more peaceful expansion, before the real wars begin.
I thought of going for a peaceful builder game (maybe 100k) after conquering the home continent.
But the pyramids were already completed somewhere else.
That was a :smoke: move of that civ. I will destroy them and go for domination or conquest. :devil2:

valamas

Sep 05, 2004, 10:30 PM

PREDITOR

I moved worker W and settler NW. I roaded the worker back to the city, irrigated back to the wheat and returned the middle tile back to mines. :) So I stuffed around with that then, maybe it was not the best way to start, as i usually just mine everything at the start.

My capital became the settler / worker factory. I was careful not to stunt my growth and make sure i had enough workers to join up roads and mine tiles as they were needed.

Each city i built became a javelin thrower pump. I found my silk and spice and horses and iron. I defended from the barbarians from the north and started a war for an early GA with America. I gained about 10 slaves while decimating America to one city to the far east where i blocked that city in, they will need to build a ship to escape. Peace with them gained me a tech and some money. I will not destroy them until the 20 turns of peace are up.

The aztec while growing in power in the south are polite, they could flood across my borders. I am defending those cities with a small force. The usefulness of my javelins is waining, so I will attack the weaker civs to extend them. I am after more slaves. The spanish are next!

I am happy with my expansion and soon will build infrastructure and stronger units to give my continient the final death nail as I dominate it.

Every now and then i would hand over 25 gold to my biggest rivals. While they are polite still, I am hoping that they will not start war with me. I had stretched my javelin forces and hope that war with the Aztecs will not come yet. I have lots of money, about 900 now.

My tech lead is strong. I think i need to find out just how big my world is, time for the Maya to get sea sick :D

So far the game has been greatly entertaining and i love starting the ancient wars and solving the logistics problems associated with them. Using some workers, defended by some units to road my war path to the enemy helped.

Print screen coming soon!

LuuCkyJaa

Sep 05, 2004, 10:45 PM

Open

This my first GOTM/COTM. I started hanging around this site in July and was considering the August COTM until I saw that it was to be at Demigod level. I decided instead to commit myself to my first victory at Monarch level. I achieved a domination victory playing as the Americans on a small map. Obviously, this is a very different scenario. In fact, it is my first time playing on large map (and as an agricultural civ).

Until visiting this site, I let the city governors manage citizen moods. Whenever I tried it myself, I was quickly dealing with civil disorder. I am very inexperienced at micromanaging, which you will see from my timeline below. However, my biggest weakness is early warmongering. I have found the previous posts very instructive.

3950 BC - Founded Chichén Itza (1) NE of start location. Started researching Alphabet and building a Warrior.

3750 BC - Completed 1st Warrior and started building a 2nd.
OOPS! - Realized three turns later that I had 1 citizen working a tile with no shields

3300 BC - Met Americans, and not a Scout but a Warrior. No trade possible.
PANICKED! Became convinced that those expansionist Americans would grab everything before I got my first settler out the door
Chichén Itza expanded to population 3.

3250 BC - OOPS! Apparently those three citizens are not happy with having no military presence in the city. Civil disorder

3200 BC - Order restored in Chichén Itza

2900 BC - Pop rushed Granary (1 citizen for last 18 shields)

2850 BC - Got Ceremonial Burial from goody hut! Look to trade, but America already has that and Bronze Working, plus two cities. MORE PANIC!

2670 BC - Finished building 1st Settler, and decided to send him NW towards mountains at the end of the river and Americans. I am most concerned about not having Iron and/or Coal (like in my last game, but that’s another story)

2510 BC - Founded Copán. Had already decided that this would be a “military factory.” Started building a Barracks

2310 BC - Finished researching Alphabet. America doesn’t need this either

2230 BC - Met Aztecs, who already had 4 cities. Traded Alphabet for Bronze Working + 26 gold.
MORE PANIC! Not only do they have twice as many cities as me, but they have a high aggression level. Pop rushed Barracks in Copán (1 citizen for last 15 shields)

1990 BC - Founded Palenque (3). At some point, I had finished 3rd Settler and sent him towards river/coast tile NE of Chichén Itza. After two moves, I saw the Americans heading towards the same location (I thought). I changed direction of Settler to SE

1950 BC - Met Iroquois, who already had 5 cities. Traded Masonry for The Wheel + 10 gold.
MORE PANIC! Not only do the Aztecs now have 5 cities and the Americans 3, but they both have Warrior Code and I do not have anything to trade for it

1870 BC - Founded Tikal (4)

1725 BC - Realized settler factory is humming along with minimal micromanagement. Shifted scientific research back to 100%

1700 BC - Known civs/cities/score:
Aztecs/5/153
Iroquois/5/153
America/5/129
Mayans/4/124

1675 BC - Met Spain; no trade possible

1600 BC - Founded Yaxchilán (5)

1550 BC - Finished researching Writing. I was so far back in tech research, I considered changing from Philosophy/Republic slingshot to Literature/Great Library.
After examining all the potential trades, I traded Spain Writing for Iron Working, Mysticism, Warrior Code + 31 gold.
Then traded Aztecs Mysticism for 75 gold (which I thought was a rip-off, but I wanted to keep them “polite”)
With the gold I received, I was able to establish embassies in Tenochtitlan, Washington and Salamanca.
I started researching Code of Laws, and was feeling confident for the first time in the game.

1525 BC - Founded Bonampak (6)

1475 BC - Founded Lagartero (7)

1275 BC - Founded Quiriguá (8)

1200 BC - Finished researching Code of Laws.
Traded Spain Code of Laws +13 gold for Mathematics + Horse Riding
Traded Iroquois Mysticism for 50 gold (a total rip-off, but I felt I needed the cash)

1100 BC - Founded Calakmul (9)

1075 BC - Founded Lazapa (10)

1050 BC - Founded Kaminaljuyú (11)
Finished researching Philosophy, got Republic for free. Decided to finish several building projects, e.g. Marketplaces and Temples, which I felt were necessary before descending into Anarchy.

1000 BC - Founded Piedras Negras (12)

975 BC - Forgot to save file when entering the Middle Ages. This is the last map I saved in the Ancient Age:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Maya_975BC.JPG

900 BC - REVOLUTION! Descended into Anarchy

875 BC - Founded Uaxactún (13), to prevent the Iroquois from setting up shop here. I intend to abandon this city later. More on that in the next spoiler thread.
Trade Aztec Philosophy for Map Making

875 BC - Founded Cuello (14), again to prevent the Iroquois from setting up shop here. I also intend to abandon this city later.

800 BC - Republic established!

670 BC - Trade Aztecs Horses for Furs + 147 gold. (I am loathe to give them the horses they need for Mounted Warriors, but I feel I need the Furs and can use the gold.)

630 BC - Pyramids completed in Washington; Great Lighthouse in Madrid. I NOW KNOW WHERE MY MILITARY AMBITIONS LIE!

610 BC - Civil disorder in Calakmul! WHERE DID ALL THOSE PEOPLE COME FROM? Oh, that’s right. I put a granary there. Guess large population plus long distance from capital equals problems. Gotta work on that.

590 BC - Trade Aztecs Currency for Construction
Spanish establish embassy in Chichén Itza. COOL. I can now establish a ROP with them and save establishing an embassy until I’m ready to attack them and need to know what’s in their capital.
Trade Spain ROP for 55 gold

570 BC - Founded Tulúm (15)

550 BC - Founded Cobá (16)

490 BC - Must have finished researching Polytheism (I didn’t make a note of it) and entered Middle Ages.

I just realized as I was putting this together that there are 21 “mandatory” tech advances plus three “optional” advances in the Ancient Age, and I only had to research five of them. I got 14 from other civs and one for free!

Unfortunately, I did not save the game around the time I entered the MA, but my notes show that I had the most cities/highest score on the continent by that point. I also know I had a decent military but it was focused on defense.

I’ve read others say that being in the middle of the continent was an advantage, but I was too concerned with having almost all of my cites bordering "enemies" to think about an attack. I’m now well into the MA but still have no clear military strategy, beyond knowing that I need to dominate this continent before warfare with other continents is possible.

LuuCkyJaa

Sep 05, 2004, 10:58 PM

Raggo

Sep 06, 2004, 12:28 AM

Monarch!!!
I am a Warlord player almost Regent and the COTM is Monarch!!!
Oh well Ill have a crack I thought.

Mistake!!

I followed advice building Chichen Itza NE and started Expansion.
Silks were quickly within my cultural borders and Spices followed.
All is well as I am moving along tech pace the same as the AI
Suddenly America builds a city on the Silks!!
Nooooooooo I cried for 10 minutes before banging my fist against my noggin.
The Americans must die I scream
So I declared war on the Aztecs. Taking a quick city.
But the war was a stalemate and peace was called.
I am losing by techs now and culture and even power.
I have no great wonders and am at fuedalism and they are god knows how far in front.
I scream and think maybe I will just get to the end of the game and submit a histograph defeat.
After 100 turns of pressing space bar and tributing gold to others civs I find myself bored out of my noggin.
Stuff this I declare war on all Civs and my great pikeman see an army of about 70 infantry surrounding my cities.
I die but hell it was a COTM had to try!!!

Story submitted by the ever faithful Raggo.
Stay tuned for more exciting but gay stories by the amazing Raggo
Check out the Raggo fan/hate club at the Off Topic section of this site.
See you there :P

MiniMe

Sep 06, 2004, 12:38 AM

LuuCkyJaa :
As a fellow newcomer, I had exactly same issues for cotm 03. The problem is that the screen shot is too wide. Zagnut had the following help to offer:

Try these instructions from one of our more technically oriented players:

To add screenshots to your posts:

1. Create the screenshot as a .jpg file using your Paint program, cropped and reduced to 800 pixels width or less.

2. Upload the file to the server using the Upload FIle link a the boittom of every page.

3. Click on View New Server 8 listing in the acknowledgment screen

4. Right click the file link for the file you have just uploaded and Copy the shortcut.

5. Put "[ img ] link [ /img ]" tags into your post where you want the image file to be displayed. Leave out the spaces that I have inserted here to disable the tags and paste the shortcut you copied in place of the "link".

WackenOpenAir

Sep 06, 2004, 12:58 AM

I settled at the river and made a 4 turn settler factory after 2 worriors for scouting.

As always, my goal is domination/conquerst.
I chose to avoid using my special unit before being out of despotism. The workers won’t be needed as much since I am industrious.

I started by alphabet at 10%, but traded it before it was finished. Then I went for the republic slingshot (writing – code – philosophy – rep for free) at max. I researched Republic 1250 BC. After 5 turn anarchy, I got into republic 1125BC.
I don’t have the exact date, but I must have entered MA around 750BC.

1000BC I had:
12 cities (44 total population)
2 settlers
10 workers
11 warriors
1 spearmen
4 granaries
4 barracks
342 gold
AA missing: Lit, Map, Poly, Monarch, Construct, Currency due in 1 turn.

I had a few encounters with barbarians, once needed to rushbuild a spearmen in despotism. Once lost a worker due to my stupidity.

Luckily, horses and iron were both easy to get, there was no competition to it.

I have been slightly low on workers this game, so that could have been improved a little. There were many wetlands to be cleared. The other cities grew fast because of the agricultural trade, fertile lands and rivers, needing more tiles to be worked.
The industrial and agricultural traits really combined well here to make a very nice start. I have not made use of Javelin throwers during AA.

LeSphinx

Sep 06, 2004, 12:58 AM

@ Klarius, I see that you are using a graphic Mod pack (snoopy one) with the C3C games. How do you installed it because it 's not working with me?
Thanks
LeSphinx

remconius

Sep 06, 2004, 02:28 AM

This is the first GOTM I am taking part in. I didnt keep track of the exact timeline/details/screenshots. Will do next month.

I started northeast as most people did, with the capital. I did not build many wonders, except GL, but focussed on expansion.

I did a quick archer rush with 2-3 archers taking the Aztec capital. This crippled them for the rest of the game until I destroyed them. I used the Aztec capital as launching platform to explore east. When available I upgraded a few warriors to swordsmen and sent 4 of them to take the american capital. I marched straight to washington and took it. On the way back took another continental city to connect my empire. Made peace with the americans. The americans were unable to make a fist after this crippling.

By the time rexing was over I had cities all the way to the east coast (iron), as well as west to the mountain range (more iron) near the Iriqouis.
This was the time the spanish got angry. They started war, which was not very smart of them. I moved in and took them out.

At around 1000AD it is just me and the Iriqouis on the isle. Time to explore the rest of the world...

Darkness

Sep 06, 2004, 02:58 AM

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Predator

Pre-game: We’re the Maya and we have a river and a wheat. There’s gotta be a catch somewhere but Ainwood’s probably the only one who knows where. I guess we’ll find it the hard way… I’ll start by moving my worker NW onto the grassland. If I spot anything interesting (like for example a bend in that river, that’ll decide my settler move. If not, settler will go N. Research: as usual -> philosophy slingshot to republic.

4000BC – Worker NW, nothing. Settler N
3950BC – Chichen Itza founded. Worker starts roading the BG. Start alphabet at max.
3850BC – Road completed. Start irrigation for fresh water access to wheat
3700BC – CI builds warrior, starts worker. Irrigation finished, worker moves to wheat. Warrior starts exploring due N
3650BC – Warrior N, spots silks, and the edge of what I think is Ainwood’s gift to us, lots of jungle…
3550BC – Road on wheat completed, worker starts irrigation
3500BC – CI builds worker, starts warrior.
3550BC – Cultural expansion reveals an American warrior nearby. Abe already has New York founded. He’s also up WC and he’s got 45 gold. Northern warrior spots American border
3400BC – Irrigation on wheat finished. Worker moves back to BG and starts mining
3150BC – An Aztec warrior approaches our northern border. They have WC.
2950BC – We meet Spain. Isabella has 35 gold CB, BW and Alphabet. There are still 13 turns remaining for us to discover alphabet. We give Isabella Masonry and Pottery for Alphabet BW and 35 gold. This just saved us 13 turns of research in our quest for the Philosophy slingshot. Monty gives us WC and 18 gold for Alphabet. Isabella then gets WC for CB straight up. CB to Abe for 27 gold. I keep Alphabet from Abe (he’s broke anyway) ‘cause he’s the only expansionist of the bunch and I don’t want him popping Writing or even worse, Philosophy from a hut. Start Writing at max.
2900BC – CI builds settler, starts granary
2850BC – Copan founded on river SW of the silks. Starts warrior
2670BC – Copan completes warrior, starts worker
2630BC – New York spotted. Abe definitely got lucky with an early settler from a GH
2550BC – Copan builds worker, starts warrior
2430BC – CI builds granary, starts settler
2390BC – Copan builds warrior, starts barracks
2270BC – CI builds settler, starts another
2230BC – Meet an Iroquois warrior. Sell Hiawatha CB for 10 gold
2190BC – Palenque founded on eastern coast, on river. Starts curragh
2150BC – Silks connected
2110BC – CI builds settler, starts another. Copan builds barracks, starts Javelin Thrower
1990BC – Palenque builds curragh, starts settler. Tikal founded on hills SE of CI
1950BC – We discover Writing, start CoL. IC builds settler, starts another
1870BC – Copan builds JT, starts another
1790BC – IC builds settler, starts another. Yaxchilan founded SE of spices, starts warrior
1700BC – Copan builds JT, starts another. Tikal builds worker, starts settler. Bonampak founded E of CI, starts warrior
1675BC – CI builds settler, starts another. Palenque builds settler, begins construction of Colossus (pre-build for Lighthouse/Pyramids/early MA wonder?)
1625BC – Lagartero founded, starts curragh. Quirigua founded, starts worker. One of our veteran JT kills a barbarian horseman, losing 2 HP; no slave
1600BC – Jaxchilan builds warrior, starts settler
1575BC – CI builds settler, starts another. Copan builds JT, starts another. Bonampak builds warrior, starts worker
1550BC – CoL discovered, start Philosophy
1525BC – Spices hooked up
1500BC – A veteran JT disperses a barbarian camp; no slave
1475BC – Copan builds JT, starts settler. CI builds settler, starts another. Calakmul founded, starts worker
1450BC – Bonampak builds worker, starts worker, Quirigua builds worker, starts worker
1425BC – Lagartero builds curragh, starts settler
1400BC – We discover Philosophy and get Republic as our free tech. Research set to Literature, followed by an immediate revolt. We draw a 5-turn anarchy…. Writing goes to the Aztecs for IW, Mysticism and 1 gold. Spain gets Writing for The Wheel and 25 gold. America get Writing for HBR and 57 gold. The Iroquois get Writing for 50 gold. Washington completes the Oracle.
1375BC – Lazapa founded
1325BC – Veteran JT lost attacking a fortified barbarian warrior. Barbarian camp dispersed by second veteran JT; no slave. Hittite city Hatassus completes Colossus.
1300BC – Regular warrior lost attacking barbarian warrior
1275BC – Mayan Republic formed. Embassies established with our four known rivals
1225BC – CI and Copan build settlers, and start new ones. Tikal builds settler, starts worker
1200BC – Bonampak builds worker, starts barracks (library pre-build) Quirigua builds worker, starts another. Horses connected
1175BC – Veteran JT kills a barbarian horseman; no slave
1150BC – Literature discovered. CI builds settler, starts another. Tikal builds worker, starts library. Bonampak switched to library. CoL and Philosophy traded to America for Polytheism and 17 gold. Spain gives us Mathematics and 25 gold for CoL, Philosophy and HBR. The Aztecs buy Mathematics for 50 gold. The Iroquois build Mysticism for 17 gold. Research set to Currency
1100BC – Both Copan and Yaxchilan build settler and start worker. Lagartero builds settler and starts another. Kaminaljuyu founded, start worker. Piedras Negras founded, start library. Uaxactun founded, start library
1075BC – Quiriguabuilds worker, starts library. Calakmul builds worker, starts libray. We lose another veteran JT to a fortified barbarian on plains. This makes it official: Javelin Throwers suck! The Maya have great traits but their UU is worthless. Cuello founded, starts library. Tulum founded, starts worker
1050BC – One of our exploring curraghs is sunk by barbarians. CI builds settler, starts another. Copan builds worker, starts library
1025BC – Lazapa builds worker, starts library. Coba founded, starts library. Dzibilchaltun founded, starts worker.
1000BC – Trade Mathematics to the Iroquois for 45 gold

QSC stats:
17 cities (total population 30)
1 granary, 1 barracks
4 contacts, 4 embassies
1 settler
13 workers
5 warriors
2 Javelin Throwers
1 curragh
All AA techs except construction, map making, monarchy and currency (2 turns remaining)
Treasury: 134 gold

950BC – Currency discovered. Currency to America for Map Making. Polytheism to Spain for 25 gold. Start Construction. Uxmal founded
825BC – America tries to extort literature. We say no. They back off
750BC – We discover Construction and enter the Middle Ages

The plan is to research Chivalry ASAP, and upgrade to knights (after I build some horsemen) and start conquering…

Roland Ehnström

Sep 06, 2004, 04:33 AM

Increadible QSC stats, Darkness, well done! :goodjob:

-- Roland

Rallonian

Sep 06, 2004, 04:58 AM

Open
I didn't take notes every turn but heres what I got:
Opening Moves:
I moved the worker west and then roaded the wheat. Settler went North and settled. Chichen Itza created a few warriors then a settler than proceeded to set up for settler factory.
Expansion went well, claiming the silks and spices relatively early.
Science:
Full research of alphabet and then successfull republic slingshot. I also researched literacy, map making, currency and construction, trading for the other ancient age techs. The other civs seemed to be researching incredibly slow.
War:
By the end of the ancient age America lay in ruin and troops were in place for a simultaneouse invasion of both Spain and the Aztecs.

QCS status: (not 100% accurate though fairly true)
16 cities
1 settler
1 granary
app. 4 barracks (possibly more)
4 contacts
not sure on workers though I had a lot of slaves
2 curragh
2 javelin throwers

Hit middle ages in 570BC by trading for Polythism from Aztecs.
Next month I think I'll keep a log so I can be a bit more specific :)

NeMeSiS_BE

Sep 06, 2004, 07:59 AM

Hi,

pretty new to the Game of the month - only found this fantastic website last month... should have had it like years ago ;-)

Normally regent player... hoping to move up reading all strategy articles...

Anyways here goes my first game :

Start by moving worker NE - settler N (4 hills in city reach for production later on).

build 2 warriors - worker and then granary - warrior (Police) then settlers.
start exploring north with one south with other warrior - encountering americans early - missing silk early on. first city goes north next to the river/coast.
second settler goes just in time to claim spices ( and horses after expantion).
Third settler just in time to settle near silks - wanted to settle in a jungle (auto clear) but then the americans would have beaten me to the silks...
fourth settler settles in between mountains in ENE.

In between trading all first line techs around (met spain as well). Reseach was full on republic slingshot - but some other civ beat me to philosophy. Encounter Iroqois at the time i went into iron age.

Iroqois send settler and spear way to near to me - so i declare war. heavy fighting - no gain on either side apart from one iroqois city (size 1) gets destroyed. Then iroqois show up with their mounted warriors - tipping the scale against my (slow) swordman (witholding javelins for golden age).

Bring in Aztec / Spanish / Americans in alliance against iroqois. Americans go for peace in only 5 turns - the cowards...
with the steady flow of warriors / horsemen from Aztec - i get a much needed break - and found city next to second horse in the west. Was almost out of swordmen to the ever retreating mounted warriors...

Just caught up building small army when the americans declare - taking 2 workers on first turn. Check alliances - only 3 turns to go agains alliance vs iroqois. Will hold out here and go for some US ass... :D:D:D

Quickly got their first town north of the river of my second city - then it's slowly going north - bringing 2 catapults and 5-8 swordmen. Meanwhile i make peace with iroqois and americans retaliate against a city just above the marshes - east of the jungle. barely hold on to the archerattacks there as they came over the mountain - so their defence bonus was costing me units.
Once i took Washington - their resistance faded - checked for peace options but they never wanted to give up the northern city next to the Volcano!!! and the 2nd Gems. So Americans loose city by city, until they offer me all their gold (21) + last city. Decide something along the lines of : Winner takes all... so i do... Bye Bye Mr Lincoln.

Meanwhile the war between Iroqois Vs Spanish and Aztec is costing all parties a lot of troops for NO gain in territory - no city gets destroyed on either side. Aztec take peace - spanish continue the war.

At this time i get republic from Great Library - and go for gov change.
Also trade republic to spanish for currency - pulling me in Middle Ages.

Meanwhile i reposition all my troops for a rush against the Iroqois - move all my troops to the western city's. Just as my last troops get to the west- the Aztec declare in their turn - immediately taking a city south of capital and they also take my capital!!! :mad: :mad: ... And i am still 3 turns in anarchy - cannot build or rush anything :mad:

This is what i call being caught with your pants down... apart from one or 2 spears per city - i have nothing to resist with. Next turn i loose another city (next to the spices/horses) - and Aztec raze the city north of this city.
Boy are they gonna pay.... army is moving towards them and they ripped the pages containing terms like "Prisoners of war" from their manuals...

Next game i will try to take better notes... but prob won't submit this time as it'll take alot time to recover - if i recover from this mess anyways...

chunkymonkey

Sep 06, 2004, 09:00 AM

Open

4000BC - 330BC: Founding of the Mayan Empire

Strategy would be to create working settler pump NE of location and claim land like a wild thing. Research would be usual Rep slingshot.

3950BC – Chichen Itza founded
3100BC – Spot Light Blue Borders to N
2950BC – Spot Green Borders to SE
2900BC – Meet Aztecs
2850BC – Meet America
2670BC – Settler Pump is up and running
2550BC – Found Copan next to silks
2510BC – Pop gold from hut
2390BC – See blue borders NW
2350BC – Meet Spain
2310BC – Found Palenque
2190BC – Meet Iroquois and Trade Masonry + 102gold for Alphabet + Bronze Working. Trade alphabet to the Aztecs for Warrior Code and 10 gold.
2110BC – Link up silks
1990BC – Found Tikal
1950BC – Found Yaxchilan
1790BC – Two American warriors move inside Copan borders. I ask them to leave, but they declare. :(
1750BC – Americans capture Copan, which was guarded by warrior and Javelin Thrower. Luckily, JavThrower died so I get to save my GA for later.
1700BC – Liberate Copan :p
1675BC – Found Bonampak
1575BC – Sign Peace Treaty. I have better things to do at the moment.
1550BC – Research Writing. Found Lagartero
1475BC – Found Quirigua.
1225BC – Research Code of Laws
1200BC – Found Calkmul
1175BC – Found Lazapa, Found Kaminaljuyu
1075BC – Succeed in pulling off Republic Slingshot. Trade Writing to Americans for Iron Working and 305 gold. Trade Writing to Spain for Ceremonial Burial, The Wheel and 7 gold. Trade Writing to the Iroquois for Mysticism and Horseback Riding. Sell Ceremonial Burial to the Aztecs for 115 gold.
1050BC. Iroquois demand Philosophy. I concede. I trade Code of Laws to them for Mathematics and 72 gold.
1025BC – Enter Anarchy
975BC – Found Piedras Negras
900BC – We are a Republic. :D Found Uaxactun.
850BC – Trade Code of Laws and Philosophy to Spain for Polytheism.
690BC – Learn Literature.
570BC – Build Mausoleum of Mallous in Chichen Itza.
370BC – Link up iron source and mass upgrade warriors. :mischief:

330BC - 30AD: The Mayan-American War

The Americans had to pay for their earlier arrogance. Now is a good time, they have no horses or iron and only a few cities. My Javelin Throwers are beying for Abe's blood and I should get some gems at the end of the affair.

330BC – I demand Boston from the Americans. They capitulate. I demand Chicago. They capitulate once again. They don’t agree to any more demands. I declare war.
310BC – My Javelin Throwers take their first life and the Golden Age of the Maya begins. :)
230BC – Build the Great Library in Copan.
210BC – Research MapMaking
190BC – Capture Washington and receive Temple of Artemis. :D
130BC – Give Aztecs 15gpt for some furs.
90BC - Aztecs demand horses. I can't be in two places at once. I give in.
70BC – Capture New York.
50BC – A great leader is born. Create army but leave him empty for now.
30BC – Built FP in Bonampak near the Aztec border.
10AD – Sign Peace Treaty with Americans for their two remaining cities (Philadelphia and Seattle) and 189 gold. They have one city remaining in Spanish territory.
30AD – Research Construction. Move into Middle Ages.

I am in a good position with my ToA to sweep the rest of the continent with knights or cavalry and work towards a 100K. However, Aztecs look threatening and the Mayan-Aztec border is long. My Swordsmen say war is coming.

Minimap at 30AD:

LuuCkyJaa

Sep 06, 2004, 09:42 AM

MiniMe,

Thanks for your advice. Hopefully, I'll get it right in the next spoiler.

James

Cuivienen

Sep 06, 2004, 09:42 AM

Okay, I discovered in a couple of runs on random maps with similar starting locations that the Mayans are perfect for the CxxC build, better than most civs. So that's what I did. I don't have details, but I built my cities very densely. When the Americans settled on the Silks, I declared war and razed Philadelphia, then got Atlanta, Boston and tech parity for peace. A brief early war with the Spanish captured all of their Workers, crippling them, and I got a tech out of that war, too. I was worried that someone on the other continent had acquired Philosophy before me when I got it in 1250 BC, but I guess I overestimated the AI. My screenshot is from about 700 years into the Middle Ages (entered ~800 BC), and I've just wiped out the American, who have just one city left north of Spain. At this point, I was already four-five techs a head of the AI.

The Javelin Throwers were very effectively used to acquire Barbarian slaves -- After I built my second city, it built four JTs to start. I had about 15 barbarian slaves by the Middle Ages. Not as many as I'd've liked, but enough

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/COTM_04_90BC.png

Civgeek

Sep 06, 2004, 10:07 AM

ainwood,

What did I do wrong when posting my timeline? It shows up in my browser much wider (and less easily readable) than the other posts. I hit "post reply" and copied-and-pasted the text from my WP program.
The width of a post, and any replies, seems to be impacted by the width of any images you include. Reduce the your image size to 800 (width) or less. If you are using Paint to get your screen captures from a 1024x768 game resolution, scaling the image by 75% seems to work fine.

SniperDevil

Sep 06, 2004, 10:09 AM

wow... looks like people did a lot better than the last GOTM

Night_Rogue

Sep 06, 2004, 11:37 AM

I didnt keep a timeline<To much hassle> but a quick rundown of my game.I got my settler factory up and running early and started to research wheel and iron working<Never though of slingshoting to republic have to try that next game>then went for republic.America beat me to the iron horses area so used my 14 warriors to declare war capturing the city,continued expanding and hooked the iron up upgrading all the wariors to swodsman then declared war on america.

Managed to take all but one of there cities but the price was heavy only had 3 swordsmans left,then I commited a big mistake when I switched to republic and disbanded any more then 1 spearman per city.The weakening of my civ made the aztecs feel like they could conquer me,Oh no!!!

Suprise attack by the aztecs starts a war between us I was still working on america and spain at the time<The spainish had tried settling into some of my american terrotry that I had just conquered>Having a war with three people at once.Not to worrh there though americans quickly signed peave having only one city left and Spain not to long after.Meantime Aztecs capture two of my cities and have about 20 units in my terrotiry,still havnt had a chance to rebuild my army sue for peace giving them a city.

4 turns later there back in my terrotiry I ask them to leave but of course they declare war luckily I got a few horseman up by this time and am battling it back and forth but another mistake almost costs me my capital one last pikeman with one red bar left!Well it survived and quickly reinforced my captial then sued for peace again this time giving them nothing or getting nothing.

This time they dont even have the patience to wait a whole 4 turns before there back in my terriotry with loads of units.I bring the iroquis into the war giving them 37 gold for rop and an alliance versus aztecs.That seems to work as the war suddenly shifts balance<Aztecs were running out of units when I bought iroquis in anyway there ga had ended>plus me sending a pikeman around to there iron and pillaging it hurts them even further.After a while of this war manage to recaputre the city I cedded them earlier then one of my cities they captured<The war is defintly turning around>Iroquis capture the other city the aztecs had captured then rop and alliance ran out they didnt want to extend it which was fine by me as I had just captured The aztec captial which had the prymaids and the hanging gardens :goodjob:

Sued for peace giving them monotheism and 100 gold for enginering and monarchy.Now it is late 750 ad<Man I am doing bad>4 turns untill chivilary which I am going to use to upgrade my 25 horses into knights and this time give aztec a piece of there own medicine.Sorry for no screenshoots but 1.I had a succefull suicider find an abonded island<pretty big one too and 2.I dont know how to make the things anyway..... :confused:

WackenOpenAir

Sep 06, 2004, 12:16 PM

dmanakho

Sep 06, 2004, 02:12 PM

OPEN class

and before I even start...
Ainwood, what have happened to you??? :eek:
Are you tired of people complaining in the past on how hard you made maps and conditions to play??? :mischief:
This was by far the easiest GOTM/COTM ever... It's like the best starting position person can come up with... Perfect settler factory, nice rivers, 2 luxuries nearby, and what is very unusual for Ainwood to provide an easy access to both iron and horses (and, yes, i finished the game and i know about what you planned for the rest of the game, but it has really backfired on you Ainwood stil making this game so easy). Oh, and did i mention how crappy were starting locations AIs had? :rolleyes:

Game started quite uneventful, moved settler, build 2 warriors, granary, established 4 turn settler factory ASAP and started pumping settlers, all new cities built nothing but barracks initially. met Aztecs first, then the rest of the gang.

After initial tech trading AIs became quite useless and the rest of the technology i had to research on my own. I researched writing, then code of laws, then philosophy and recieved free republic, next tech was literature and GL was the only AA wonder i built. ( i really didn't need it, i just like libraries :) , plus i wanted to deny AIs any free techs).

This was my 1st game of the month when i used totally new war tactics, Before i would always build bunch of swords, but after the latest SG i realised the power of horses and all games i play now i build horses instead of swords.
I truly believe that hordes of horses are more effective than swordsmen and have better upgrade possibilities.
I only built very few of unique units to ensure GA when i am ready.
I haven't seen any barbs really, continent filled so fast, barbs just didn't have a chance.

At around 500BC i was ready for war and Americans would be my 1st target, but i had to change plans. Aztec guy showed up and demanded literature, I laughed at him and he declared war... too bad for Aztecs. War started in 500BC i think...
I was already in republic so it was perfect timing to launch GA, so i did...
I entered GA in 470BC and shrunk Aztecs empire to just few tundra coastal cities. No leaders were generated during that war.

I entered MA in 310BC, perhaps late but i made a mistake waiting on AIs to bring me into MA (I had Great library remember?), but as i said AIs were too lousy researching.

Actually, running ahead this was quite lousy game in terms of leader hunting. I only had 3 for entire game despite constant and continious wars.

So, it's 310 BC and we are in MA. Aztecs are almost destroyed and i am thinking about the next war against americans... But this is a story for the next spoiler.

Thats all folks! :beer:

Abegweit

Sep 06, 2004, 04:24 PM

I started by moving the settler to the north east in order to keep both bonus grass in the city radius. The worker began building a road in order to bring water to the wheat. My granary was finished in 2950 BC and the settler pump moved into action.

In research I went all out for Republic, as I assume most other people did. When I met the Spanish I traded for Alphabet, which helped get things going in the right direction. In 1325 BC, I learned Philosophy and, as planned, I drew the Republic as my free tech. I next researched Math, Currency and Literature. After that I turned research off, hoping that someone would learn Construction but, in the end, I was forced to research it myself.

In 825 BC, I declared war on the Aztecs and moved in about 15 horsemen. In 510 BC I signed a peace treaty with them, reducing them to a single city. I had about 10 elite victories but no leader. As one of my last acts of the war, I attacked with my only Javelin Warrior and fired off my Golden Age.

In 470 BC, the barbarian uprising took place. The timing was very annoying because I was one turn from taking out their camp and had planned to put a city on the square. Next turn, I entered the Middle Ages myself. Tenochitlan is building the Forbidden Palace and Chichén Itza is working on the Great Library, which may eventually become Leo’s Workshop.

My immediate plans are to learn chivalry and take over the continent. I also need to find the rest of the world.

QSC stats
5 Granaries 4 Barracks
15 cities; pop 50
2 settlers, 12 workers, 5 warriors, 7 chariots and a curragh
In game score: 300, which is tops in the world

Roland Ehnström

Sep 06, 2004, 05:16 PM

Before i would always build bunch of swords, but after the latest SG i realised the power of horses and all games i play now i build horses instead of swords.
I truly believe that hordes of horses are more effective than swordsmen and have better upgrade possibilities.

I absolutely agree. Horsemen are really MUCH better than Swordsmen, mainly because of their ability to withdraw when losing. With six Horsemen you can expect to take any town defended by three Spearmen. Sure, you could do the same with five Swordsmen, but the difference is that you would then lose one or two of your Swordsmen in the process, while you would probably not lose a single Horseman if you attack with them instead. And because of their higher movement-rate, you get to the next town much faster, and can send in reinforcements much faster. And because they never lose, just withdraw, you'll soon have a bunch of Elite Horsemen, which could bring you leaders. And Horsemen upgrade to the mighty Knights (though it does cost a fortune) and then (almost for free) to the awesome Cavalry! I never build Swordsmen anymore, unless I have no Horses of course.

-- Roland

Cryspen

Sep 06, 2004, 05:16 PM

I'm new to CivFanatics, this is my first GOTM.

I've been playing Civ for a long time, and while I read in amazement the micromanagements that some do, especially in the Sid Games, I myself could never be bothered with that (nor do I take notes, is that a requirement to submit the results?). Nonetheless, on Monarchy level, my cavalry normally takes out a civ or two, and the rest of the world bows before my tanks... Though in truth, in many of my games, I'm not aggressive, and only go after those who declare war on me first.

With this game, I had several early thoughts/plans

With a UU of level 1 tech, I knew that a GA could be very early. In fact, I would have to be careful to make sure it didn't happen too soon.

Normally, the less units the AI has the better, but this time, I actually wanted lots of very weak (defense 1) units coming my way, so I planned to war early on.

Usually I go for Republic, but an early war meant strictly Monarchy. In fact, my plan was to race for Monarchy at maximum pace, switch, and go to war with everybody near by who can't pump out swordsmen yet. I dreamed of having a Pentagon before 0 AD, (which I've never done) with anything less then musketeers falling before my armies of Javelin throwers.

I also hoped to get at least 2 early Wonders. The Temple or Artemis and the Oracle are my first plan, as they allow for good military conquest. The temples provide culture to stop a culture flip, and the Oracle along with the temples help keep the captured city happy.

While normally I just place cities in the first decent spot I see, I decided I would try out this new fangled 'ring pattern' that I had read about online here. I wanted 6-8 size 6 cities (assumed most would not have fresh watter) that could do at least 10 shields, preferably 15, (so as to be able to really pump Javelin throwers), which can be tricky with corruption, prior to courthouses. The land allowed for a very nice placement of 8 cities at 3.5 from the capital. However, I quickly noticed that they had different corruption. A bit more of research here at CivFanatics showed that the Ring placement Theory is dead in C3C. Doh!

Well, I must say I haven't mis-managed an early start as badly as this one in some time. I totally botched my settler factory (5 turns instead on 4), and didn't produce nearly enough workers early on for all my cities. (in fact I think I may only have had two for 9 cities...) (This may or may not have to do with the fact that I played a lot of the game as a distraction while waiting for the pain-killers to kick in...)

I met the Aztec very early on, (I think turn 6-7)? Which made me nervous, for them to be so close.
I traded my masonry for warrior code & 10 gold.

I set up my ring of cities. My capital has built little besides settlers / workers.

The Americans closest city Philadelphia, was a little too close to the North.

To the east, my second city Copan, on the river, became my major production centre with 5 hills.

I built a barracks in my non-river cities, and had them each produce 2+ warriors for cheap MP (and useful swordsmen later on). Then I set them all to producing JTs.

In 1475ish BC, most of my cities had 1-2 warriors when the Aztecs demanded ceremonial burial from me, which I refused. We went to war. I wasn't ready for a real war, as I didn't have enough JT's, so I just waited. Not much came of things. Three aztec warriors came up, and were defeated. I got a never-to-be-used elite warrior out of it.

In 710 BC I got Monarchy

In 610BC The Aztec's again demanded something from me, again I refused, and we go to war.

In 550 BC I enter my GA. I'm a few turns from Temple of Artemis. I decided on doing something risky. I trade Monarchy (and the required techs) to America, Spain, and Iroquois, in return for all their gold and whatever Tech they had. Since I hope to capture many cities, I don't want them to rush-built their cities down to a size one, which can happen easily in Despotism. Plus, this way rush-building troops will help keep the AI poor, limiting their research.

The Mongols had beaten me to the Oracle in 925 BC, but I had kept the shields in a palace pre-build. I use those to help build the Great wall. I delay the Temple of Artemis by a turn or two, so that they will be built simultaneously, to help ensure I get them both. (I fear that somebody else's Temple of Artemis will become a pre-build for the Great wall). I then declare war on everybody I know (America, Spain, Iroquois, and was already at war with the Aztecs)

The Americans I fear are closest to having the Temple of Artemis, but since I gave them Monarchy, I hoped the Anarchy would delay them for a few extra rounds. Those rounds of Anarchy, plus the delay in sending troops over to me, should allow my GA cities to produce plenty of JTs to be ready for them.

In 490 BC I get both the Temple of Artemis and the Great wall.

Since then, things have been a bit slow.

It is now 470 AD.

I only built the Great Library in 450 AD, which has just moved me into the middle ages with Feudalism.

War on all fronts has stopped me from marching over any one civ, but I now have well over a 100 captured workers. I've probably lost a dozen or two from mismanagement as well. (Such as not noticing that some were fortified when I used 'X' to move a stack of captured workers under a JT, etc. Also, there seems to be a bug where that some units appear as 'active' on the right-mouse click list when they are in fact fortified). In hind sight, I wish I had lost a few more, used as human shields... 'Here..take your worker back, just leave my 1 HP elite unit alone' (Human shields by putting them -in between- me and the enemy, using up the enemies' movement by capturing a unit; not to be confused with what some consider an exploit with how the AI will always go for a worker over any other unit)

My dream of having a Pentagon prior to 0 AD didn't happen, but only by a bit. It was build around 100 AD or so (20 turns before the Great Library at 450 AD, whenever that is). Still in Ancient times though!

When I captured Washington, I took both the Hanging Gardens and the Pyramids!

Sadly, I've only just now have I gotten my fourth army. I've taken most of America, but I'm running very low on units. I've never really used artillery before, but I now appreciate what a stack of them can do (currently catapults), especially on defense. I wish I had been using them earlier, I'd probably have a lot more JT's left. I've lost dozens taking out pillaging Spearmen. Only Spain seems to have Iron, and only a handful of swordsmen have come my way, often to be defeated by an army of JT's.

I've only just seen two Midevial Infantry from Spain, but I'm not worried. I've about 20 catapults up north, who can beat them down, allowing for an easy victory from one of my two armies in the region, (or even a JT/Swordsmen/MI). I hope to take out the three remaining American northern cities (they have a few colonies way down south) before I see knights, at which point I may declare peace.

The Iroquois Mounted Warriors have been a nuisance as raiding parties, but not a real threat.

Some other interesting notes.

I've seen two Goodie-huts in post-AD era, both just a square outside of an AI's city zone of control (190 AD - which gave me a warrior, and 320 AD, which I only saw by boat.)

While a (or two or three!) Barbarian farm for workers/elite JT's would have been very cool, my cities never saw a single barbarian. An exploring galley to the NW was sunk by a stack of 10 of their ships though. (Spain has sunk any ship trying to explore NE) Way down south, on the other side of the Aztec empire, I did finally see Barbarian horsemen. A stack of ten, and of four, two, and one units, plus a camp with a warrior on it. Amusingly, and Iroquois settler/spearman landed by Galley that turn. The spearman was able to hold off 7-8 of them before falling.

The current remains of my once mighty army (I once had close to 70 JT's I think...)

4 Armies. 2 @ 4 JTs and 2 @ 3 JTs (which I may keep that way, so as too allow boat transfer prior to Tansport...)

6 workers
at least a 100+ captured workers

14 spearmen (will upgrade to pikemen soon, in turns to come)
13 swordsmen, (Again, will upgrade to MI in coming turns)
30 Catapults (probably more artillery then I've ever built before)
3 captured Catapults
2 galleys (lost 4-6 trying to explore)

40 Javelin Throwers

Roland Ehnström

Sep 06, 2004, 05:31 PM

While normally I just place cities in the first decent spot I see, I decided I would try out this new fangled 'ring pattern' that I had read about online here.

Hi Cryspen! I'm also pretty new to Civfanatics, having done only the three previous COTM's. I have learned very much from these games - I think you'll see your game improve very much too (though you seem to be doing pretty damn well already!).

Just a comment about the "ring pattern". I am afraid that this is obsolete with C3C. Corruption works differently in Conquests, so placing cities in a ring is of no use now.

-- Roland

Denniz

Sep 06, 2004, 10:02 PM

[c3c] 1.22f - Open Class

Ancient Age

I sent my worker west. I didn't see anything special, so I moved my settler NE and set up my factory. It sputtered a couple of times but overall my expansion was very quick. I met the Aztecs in 3600BC, the Americans in 3450BC, the Spanish in 2950BC and finally the Iroquis in 1675BC. The American must have poped a GH to found New York near the iron to the northeast. I had to put a city next in the hills to claim it. I got the horses and the 2 lux without any interference. The Republic slingshot worked like a charm wiht me switching to Republic in 1000BC. I used the show big picture trick but got 5 turn anarchy both times.

QSC:
12 cities
32 pop
2 settlers
10 workers
8 warriors
1 Swordman
5 Javelin
2 Curragh (I think I built 4 or 5 but losses high)
1 Grainary
4 Barracks

In 710BC, I had gathered a stack of 4 Swordmen, 3 Javelin, and 2 Horsemen northeast of Tenochtitlan and declared war. Both America and the Aztecs were weak compared to me. I started to go for the Americans but changed my mind and attacked the Aztecs instead as they had just built the Pyramids. In 670BC, I captured the city and started my golden age. In 590BC, I got 3 cities plus gold for peace. A short profitable war that left the Aztecs crippled with just 3 cities. :)

I rode the GA into the middle ages without further conflict. In 370BC, I discovered Construction to enter the MA.

Stats:
19 Cities
89 Pop
2 Settlers
15 workers
7 slaves (one purchase from Iraquois)
18 horsemen
1 galley
3 Javelin
1 Curragh

Tech:
3950BC Masonry; Pottery (Starting Tech)
3600BC Warrior Code (Trade)
3400BC Ceremonial Burial (Trade)
2950BC Bronze Working (Trade)
1990BC Alphabet (Research)
1650BC The Wheel (Trade)
1450BC Writing (Research)
1425BC Iron Working; Mysticism (Trade)
1150BC Code of Laws (Research)
1000BC Mathematics(trade); Philosophy(Research); Horseback Riding (trade); The Republic (Free)
900BC Map Making (Trade)
730BC Literature (Research)
550BC Currency (Research)
450BC Polytheism (Research)
370BC Construction (Research)

Wonders:
1600BC Colossus (Civ1)
1400BC Oracle (America)
900BC Pyramids (Aztecs, now Mayan)
590BC Temple of Artemis (Civ2
570BC Great Lighthouse (Civ3)

I was 4 turns from the Great Library and 1 turn from the FP.

predesad

Sep 06, 2004, 11:54 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/cotm4_aa_spoiler3.jpg

I seemed to have lost some of my notes, so I am going partly from memory

To begin, I started by moving the settler NE worker road, found Chichen Itza and continued to set up settler factory building warrior, warrior, worker, granary, settler, from that point it was settlers every 4 turns for a long time form my capitol. No settlers ever from any other cities, preferred just to let them grow and give workers here and there.

I contacted Americans early and was alarmed by their proximity, then the Aztecs soon after that. Not too much longer a Spanish wariror was spotted, but the Iroquois I did not contact for awhile.

I started researching Alphabet @ 100% then Writing all the way to Republic slingshot in 1175 BC. After I had got republic I began trading writing and made some trades too easily take the tech lead. The Aztecs never contact anyone else until nearly the MA despite their having discovered map making early. I extorted the Spanish two or three times by renegotiating peace, once this netted me iron working. I had an early war with America which netted me a city and saw only two battles during the brief war, the kille done of my warriors, i attacked and lost a warrior to that same one, then another warrior killed theirs. They gave me Boston + a small amount of gold for peace.

I had placed a priority on settling near the luxuries and claimed both silks & spices. I accidently founded on top of the horse (i did not have the wheel when i founded) then later founded right between the iron and horse to the north.

The Americans built both the Oralce and Temple of Artmeis, I declared war ion them, they are small and I wanted their lands. I did poorly though, because the war is still ongoing. They have failed to even appear to invade me, but I have lost too many swords to their spears and I misjudged the number of swords I needed. They only have three cities left, one in the far north by spain. I once got Washington down to one spear, but had to take my surviving units out of their territory to heal, in the meantime i had built a few more swords and when I approached the capitol again they had 4 spears in there, they must have been pop rushing like mad. This time i worried not about an early capture of their capitol, instead I pillaged every tile in their capitol and now have a stack of about15 swords ready to take them out.

I really became distracted by the war which should have been over long ago and have remained a depotism, my plan was to eliminate America and take over theri land, switch to Republic and the n invade the Aztecs with swords and javs to initiate GA, easy targets for slaves with their jags and archers because they took a long time to hook up their iron. that is still the plan, but it has taken much longer than it should have, the year is 270 AD.

I just entered the MA about 240 AD, purposely extending it. After my Republic slingshot I researched literacy and then went with one scientist for currency. With the 50 turns, Spain still only managed to get currency 3 turns before I did and I racked up a ton of gold, 3725. I built the GL, but not by choice. I wanted the other GL, the lighthouse, but a civ on another continent beat me to it. I will continue to let the AI dictate the tech pace and rack up gold until education.

My goal right now is to overtake my continent and then go for a space race victory, i want all of my continent in case I dont have needed resources later for spaceship, i will have other extra resources to trade, and then i will only have to worry about overseas invasions. Once the GL is obsolete I hope to be able to distance myself in the tech race, but as of yet I have not contacted the other continent and I am certain they are ahead of us. No matter because I will catch up thanks to the GL. I did make a successful crossing though, finally, after several attempts and I hope to get some other contacts soon.

I have 22 cities, 1 settler, 27 workers, 1 warrior, 22 spears, 23 swords, 14 javs, 8 galleys, & 14 slaves. My core cities have granary, temple, barracks, and aqueduct where needed, also a couple harbors. I have built the forbidden palace in Bonampak which expanded my core. Have been adding courthouses, and started on markets, i will get those and libraries during GA and i hope to get contacts for monotheism so i can build cathedrals as well.

The game is going slow, but I vow to speed it up then make use of my huge cash reserve.

Birdjaguar

Sep 07, 2004, 12:29 AM

Hi, pretty new to the Game of the month - only found this fantastic website last month... should have had it like years ago ;-)

Welcome to CFC!

eldar

Sep 07, 2004, 02:04 AM

Open.

BC 4000 Worker W to Wheat. Looks like coast. Settler NE to river. Nothing interesting.
3950 Founded Chicen Itza. Research Alphabet at 20% (minimum). Worker will: road (2), NE (1), road (2), irrigate (3), SW+irrigate (3), NE+mine (4), E+S (1), chop (3). [Edit: I deviated somewhat, chopping before finally returning to irrigate the wheat]. Build will be warrior, warrior, granary, settler.
3700 First warrior out, and the road on the BG is done so I can hike research to 90%.
3650 Warrior spots spices to the SE. First settler spot if nothing better emerges.
3550 Second warrior ready, will go round the coast.
3250 Contact with Aztecs, I give them Masonry, they give me WC+10g.
3150 Goody Hut: Barbs :-(
2900 Granary completed.
2670 First settler pops out. Will go to spices site, and start making warriors for MP in Chicen Itza.
2590 Goody Hut: Maps :-(
2390 IBT: There are blue borders touching Chicen Itza's?!
2350 The blue borders belong to America - I bet it's a Goody Hut city :-) They're up CB & BW, the Aztecs are up BW. Founded Palenque.
2270 Founded Tikal, backing onto the American city's borders but it's next to Silks and I can probably get it.
2070 Alphabet finished, start Writing. Trade Alphabet to America for BW+30g. Aztecs have the Wheel but won't trade (they have no gold).
2030 IBT: Aztecs DoW! They have a lone archer next to an undefended (and undefendable) Copan… which I promptly lose.
1990 Contact with Iroquois, sell Masonry and Get CB, Wheel, and 10g.
1950 Looks like the Americans either started very close after all, or got two Goody Hut settlers.
1910 Founded Bonampak, killed the Aztec Archer with a warrior.
1750 Copan Two founded. Now I know why the Aztecs wanted it… as well as the Spices, there be horses :-) IBT: sign peace with Aztecs giving them CB+28g. Chichen Itza riots due to lack of War Happines.
1550 Quirigua founded. Trade away Writing to Iroquois for IW+25g, then IW to America for all his gold, and Aztecs for all his gold.
1475 IBT: A settler gets hit by a Barb horse.
1350 Calakmul founded, next to Iron. As someone mentioned… Chichen Itza can be a 3.5-5.5 settler factory!
1325 IBT: CivX completes The Colossus. An American worker finishes connecting the Silks for me, I've finished the temple in Tikal so I now have control of the square :-)
1300 Sell Writing to America for Mysticism+25g.
1250 At long last, my first Javelin thrower comes off the production lines. Too darned late. The two grassland squares I've inherited from the Americans are irrigated. Why?!
1225 IBT: Spain contacts me. I decline her offer for now, but will go back to her.
1200 Sell Writing to Spain for HBR+6g. I can get Mathematics from America for CoL but I'll hold back for now to give me a better shot at Philosophy - though all the AIs now have Mysticism so chances are they're chasing Polytheism for the ToA. Lazapa & Kaminaljuyu founded.
1175 Sell Mysticism to Aztecs for 25g (from the Barbs they just broke up).
1050 I complete Philosophy and... Darn! - an undiscovered Civ already had Philosophy! I'll still research Republic, though, because I'd like the early govt.
1025 Trade CoL to America for Mathematics. Sell CoL to Spain for 35g.
1000 QSC position would be better if it weren't for the early Aztec DoW, and the loss of the Settler in the Calakmul position to a Barb. It turns out I could've escorted it, because my research gambit failed so the extra Lux tax wouldn't have bit. 10 cities (+3 more soon), 7 workers, 14 warriors, 3 javelin throwers, 233 gold, 27 population, researching Republic, missing AA techs Construction, Currency, (Literature), Map Making, Polytheism, Monarchy. Contact with 4 Civs (Aztec, America, Iroquois, Spain). Score 257 (#1 from 5 - next is Aztecs on 240). 1 granary, 3 temples, 3 barracks.

1000BC screenshot:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/QSC_eldar.jpg

I've marked where my three settlers are headed for/are - I get all three sites :-)

950 Traded Mathematic+CoL to Aztecs for Map Making+25g. Founded Uaxactun.
875 IBT: CivY completes the Pyramids. Bad, 'cos the Aztecs switch to the GL - must've been building Pyramids in a coastal city?! Possibly good news, because it's not going to be particularly productive. The Americans complete The Oracle.
825 Sold Philosphy to America & Spain for all their gold. IBT: CivZ completes the MoM - at least I know *who* was first to Philosophy now!
730 IBT: CivQ completes the Lighthouse - knew I shouldn't have tried for it. I switch Palenque to my FP. Might as well get it built nice and early.
690 Sell Philosophy to Aztecs for all his gold, and Map Making to America for all his. IBT: America get Construction. Still, I'm close to Repbulic - so I can use that to its full effect.
570 Repbulic discovered, immediate revolt (forget about the 'Big Picture' trick though). 5-turn anarchy though :-) I'll wait 'til I trade it round, though - I can get Construction from America, but it's not really worth it, yet. They'll only sell on Republic. Sell Philosophy to Iroquois for all his gold.
510 Uxmal founded, next to one of the Furs south of Aztecs. I can't believe they didn't claim it - indeed, they had a Settler there in plain sight of my Galley, but went right past!
490 IBT: Aztecs demand Republic. I tell them where to go, they DoW. Their loss.
470 The stack of Javs and Swords I've built up ready to hit Tenoc, makes it move.
450 IBT: Boston flips to me :-) And CivP completes the SoZ.
430 Start of my GA as a Jav takes out a Spear defending Tenoc. Give in and sell America Republic for Construction+62g. Still no-one has Poly. Tenoc captured. And I get my first slave from a Jav :-) Then I 'forget' the stack of Aztec units sitting on a mountain and move the slave next to them... d'oh!
410 IBT: The Aztecs capture Uxmal, but that's no surprise given how deep in their territory it was. I hope my two warriors fought bravely (the first came on the Galley, the other had been down south scouting).
390 Complete FP in Palenque. This war will not be fun for Monty.
350 Finish Currency - still nobody has Polytheism, so I guess I ought to research THAT too. Still, it's a 4-turner thanks to my GA :-)
330 Sell silks to Iroquois for 44g. Found Kabah right under their noses, too. Still, two wheat and a lake? I'll take it!
310 Sell Currency to America for Gems+15g. Still can't drop to 0% luxes, but I'm starting to build Marketplaces now (in preference to temples). IBT: Barb uprising near Kabah. There's an Iroquois spear/settler pair next door to that camp. That's nice for them.
270 Complete Polytheism and enter the MA. Start on Engineering.

A nice position to be in, but for the early DoW by Aztecs it would've been better (Copan would've been my early Jav pump, but got set back somewhat...).

[Edit] My GA was very nicely timed, even if a little unplanned. It boosted me into the MA, and I also got Markets, and some Courts, built in my main cities. Financially, I'm sound, which should make the rest of the conquest of this continent a simple job once I get Knights.

Neil. :cool:

Darkness

Sep 07, 2004, 02:50 AM

Looking at these openings, i have a question to those who have 16/17 cities at 1000BC, hopefully opening some discussion.

I have build settlers only from my settler factory, and workers mostly from my other cities with granaries to give my remaining cities the opportunity to grow.
At 1000BC, i only have 12 cities, but with 44 total population vs 30 pop in darkness' 17 cities for example.

The difference is that you invest more in future growth by building settlers from your non settler factory cities as well.
The more you invest, the later your cities start growing tall and production will rise, but the bigger the production can be in the end.
On deity/sid, the amount of investment is mostly decided by what the AI lets you get away with (due to available ground and your lack of defence)

I don't have experience with the lower difficulties, but i would expect it not to be optimal to invest as much as the AI allows you. The AI is so weak, i would guess you can finish them off earlier if you make a lower investment. On the other hand, i could say the higher OCN favors a bigger investment on these difficulty levels.

So, i ask you to explain your reasoning behind your investment strategy on lower difficulty levels since i have very little experience with that.
(I started playing deity right away, and still stand by my oppinion that if you want to beat deity, you should not start at lower difficulties because it's just a different game at lower levels)

PS: I just explained my philosophy behind my strategy, i am not trying to convince anyone it is good or even better, i know you guys are top finishers in the gotm's. Thats why i ask you about your strategies.

This could be quite an interesting debate...
Since you compared your game to mine, I'll answer as much as I can.

I build most of my settlers from my settler factory. Two cities were set to a specialized build (one had barracks, so it was pumping out Javelin Throwers. This did me no good though, since I didn't acquire a single barbarian slave. The other was doing a great wonder, can't tell which one in this spoiler, but I was succesful :D ). All the other cities were building workers and settlers as fast as they could.
Now to the why of my strategy:
Because I always go for republic ASAP happyness is an issue early on. I tend to keep most my cities relatively small to keep the luxury slider as low as possible (fast research) and because I always want to have a lot of workers, who IMHO are the most vital unit in the game! Most of my cities started to grow early on in the MA, because by then my peaceful expansion was over and I had enough workers.
IMHO it is always cheaper to expand as much as is reasonably possible, than to conquer other nations in the start. The real point is where peaceful expansion becomes more expensive (long settler treks, etcetera), that's when I usually switch towards a more aggressive approach.

socralynnek

Sep 07, 2004, 03:11 AM

Open Class

Since I am a monarch player, I decided I wouldn't need the few bonuses from Conquest class.

The Americans attacked me very early, but since they had no iron, I had no problem to fight them with my Javs and a few swordsmen.
I got two leaders in that war and at the end of the AA, America had only one city (to the south of Chichen Itza where I could control them...)
Washington had build Mausoleum, so I decided to build my FP there which was finished as I entered the Middle Ages.
The war with America was almost over when the Aztecs attacked me. I played a few turns defensively and got a leader from a defending spearman. i used that army to prevent them from connecting their iron.
Then I decided I would destroy the Aztecs, but the downside of this was that I would wait for Democracy to change governments.
When I entered the Middle Ages, I had conquered 1 or 2 cities of the Aztecs but the war went well since they only attacked with archers.
I had (almost) met all civs (my galleys were at that moment still on their way)and I was the first to enter the Middle Ages.
I had lots of workers (only 2 were build by myself)and was building the pentagon...
Have I already said that I love armies full of Javs...
I am the largest civ and when I finish the Aztecs, I should have a big lead...

WackenOpenAir

Sep 07, 2004, 05:55 AM

This could be quite an interesting debate...
Since you compared your game to mine, I'll answer as much as I can.

I build most of my settlers from my settler factory. Two cities were set to a specialized build (one had barracks, so it was pumping out Javelin Throwers. This did me no good though, since I didn't acquire a single barbarian slave. The other was doing a great wonder, can't tell which one in this spoiler, but I was succesful :D ). All the other cities were building workers and settlers as fast as they could.
Now to the why of my strategy:
to keep most Because I always go for republic ASAP happyness is an issue early on. I tend my cities relatively small to keep the luxury slider as low as possible (fast research) and because I always want to have a lot of workers, who IMHO are the most vital unit in the game! Most of my cities started to grow early on in the MA, because by then my peaceful expansion was over and I had enough workers.
IMHO it is always cheaper to expand as much as is reasonably possible, than to conquer other nations in the start. The real point is where peaceful expansion becomes more expensive (long settler treks, etcetera), that's when I usually switch towards a more aggressive approach.

Hmm, i reasoned to get some cities to size 7 asap when getting republic :) I got 4 size 7 sities when i got rep around 800-700 BC. Also built marketplaces in those.
I guess you built 4 or so settlers from other cities (since i am not too stupid to start and use a settler factory, i assume you also got 14 settlers from it by 1000BC), i think i will experiment some with the difference between these idea's by playing the same game twice and at the same time with both idea's after completing this gotm. I hope it won't take too long before i get to it.

jazz_man

Sep 07, 2004, 06:27 AM

hi!

I had a fairly peaceful ancient age focussed on growth and science.
Managed to gain lots of respect from my neighbours!

Some highlights so far.

Realized that when builds are close to an end It might pay off to
micromanage the shields better. As an example I have 2 towns that
can use the wheat & a good shield tile, so by swapping them around
when shields are about to be stuffed I can minimize the waste. Now
keep an eye on when things are about to become finished

Gotta love it when trespassers obediently run back home upon hearing
the thunderous voice of Maya power booming.

I decided to try and delay the golden age until I had some decent
towns & science. This worked out alright I think, just after getting
republic a javelin fellow got my civ into racer-gear!

Used the whip a bit since there was such an abundance of food on
the plains - built libraries.

Crushing the Aztecs, ho-hoo - got onto their capital with catapults
and horsies. There's an Oracle in their town that says I'll find
a really nice woman and live happily forever after.

Attach some pictures showing my empire, best towns & woman.

cheers,
john

Offa

Sep 07, 2004, 11:14 AM

LuuCkyJaa

Sep 07, 2004, 12:43 PM

Civgeek & MiniMe,

Thanks for the tips. I was able resize the map and go back and edit my original post so that the map is where I wanted it and the post is easily readable. Thanks again!

James

Paradigne

Sep 07, 2004, 12:52 PM

I don't have any screenshots, but if you look at grs's my early game was almost identical (Including Denver being where it was - almost fell out of my chair when I saw that).
I didn't get any barb slaves.
I missed getting philosophy first.
I missed the pyramids by 5 turns.
<SIGH> :cry:
I did get to switch pyramids to GL though, which came in real handy. The Aztecs started a war (right after I went republic) so I dropped tech to zero and proceeded to wipe them off the face of the planet.I had to spend 6 turns switching to Monarchy because of the war wariness They tried to get the Iroquois involved but I was able to get America and Spain after them. The only Iro units I killed were a BUNCH of settler they kept sending through my lands :lol:
When I was winding down with the Aztec's (I got 2 armies there) America sent some troops into my lands looking for lands to settle, when asked to leave, they declared war... so they were next. I made short work of getting them off MY continent, but since I had no idea where there last city was (nor did I really care) since the Iroquois were still itching for a fight.
I got Spain involved in this war again, but quickly blocked their access to them with captured cities. Not to keep them out, just to slow them down. This worked well, because they concentrated on the roaming units while I took the cities :)...

smackster

Sep 07, 2004, 02:05 PM

I am just lurking here as playing on a large map isn't appetizing. However, for what it is worth I agree with you that too much expansion at the cost of city size can be wrong. This opinion is largely based on Snaga's game in gotm23 (Monarch Arab pangea). In that game he built relatively few towns (? a dozen or so) before blitzing through the AI with breathless speed. I would refer you back to his write up: it certainly convinced me. If only I could play as well...

I had 14 cities and 36 population at 1000BC. I think that Arabs game had a number of factors that made it different to this one, being a Panagea, mostly poor land growth (desert), standard map size and a 3 move UU.

Here are my thoughts on QSC growth in this game. If you have a strong settler factory (as we do in this game) there is less need to produce settlers elsewhere. In other games without a good settler factory it can be a must to produce settlers in multiple cities, so that you expand quick enough and to stop the AI from grabbing all the land

There are a number of factors that I use to determine what cities if any (beyond the settler factory) should produce settlers in the QSC (and beyond) period.

1) Any city without a river that approaches size 6, build a settler/worker
2) Any city that forces you to push the slider, you should consider what to do with it. I like to base the slider % on my settler factory, any (connected) city that requires a bigger % should either build a settler/worker, or use a scientist.
3) Consider the OCN, does it make sense to push out a settler from one of your core cities, to settle in a totally corrupt place.

Finally in this game, my QSC period was concerned with a) the settler factory, and b) the republic slingshot. So in fact my second city got to a point where I might well push a settler out of it, and I would have probably got a couple more cities by 1000BC, but this was a critical period where I was pushing all out for CoL and then Philosophy. So what I did was to hire a scientist in various cities to squeeze down an extra turn or two of research.

smackster (hopefully I'll actually write my spoiler soon)

zamint3

Sep 07, 2004, 03:34 PM

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/swordsman_small.gif Predator

Founded Chichén Itza NE.
Build order warrior, granary and then settlers for the next 2700 years.
First settler in 2710 bc.
The warrior went exploring in the north, but we newer got any early trade. :(
Our capital was undefended for the next 1300 years, with some very annoying American and Aztec warriors circling around. :eek:

We haven't met any barbs yet, but in 1125 bc the Aztecs declare war and 2 turns later one of their archers loose against our javelin thrower, so we enter a despotic golden age. :cool: :cry:

QSC Status :
21 cities.
40 pop
1 granary
4 barracks
2 settlers.
12 workers + 1 slave.
14 warriors
1 horseman.
4 javelin throwers.
1 curragh

Score : Maya 337, America 265, Aztecs 253, Iroquois 244, Spain 171.
Treasury 537 g, two turns from Code of Laws. AA techs left : Litt, Polytheism, Monarchy, Republic, Currency and Construction
We have embassies with America, Spain and Iroquois and are at war with the Aztecs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Maya_1000_bc.jpg

Roland Ehnström

Sep 07, 2004, 03:38 PM

TWENTYONE cities at 1000BC??? Unreal! :eek:

Edit: But on the other hand you are still despotic and have a despotic GA... It's gonna be interesting to see if this amazing early expansion pays off or not. :)

-- Roland

Cryspen

Sep 07, 2004, 04:12 PM

Just a comment about the "ring pattern". I am afraid that this is obsolete with C3C. Corruption works differently in Conquests, so placing cities in a ring is of no use now.

-- Roland

So I've found out. I was a bit surprised to see some cities with 12 shields able to produce 11 and others with 13 only doing 9. I think normally (and in future games) I would have gone for something much closer to Predasad's city placements.

Even if it was still valid, I already knew that 'ring placement' wasn't the best method to go in the long run. I was just hoping it would give me a small advantage for the *unusually early* wars I planned. (to the goal of size 6 cities having 15 shields after corruption... a bit tricky in ancient times). Most players don't begin a conquest phase, outside of a city or two, until they have knights, and often cavalry; there are good reasons for this, as I'm sure most players here know. However, for this game, I thought it would be fun to to play this game as the *Mayans*, rather then just as a vanilla civ. To really push things and see what, if anything, was special about them, aside from their very powerful class of both agricultural and industrial. Hence, early wars with JTs.

I guess I should point out I'm also playing Predator class (I'm really an Emperor level Civ player, as I have no fear of actually losing at Monarchy level), and I was considering how fast those extra units would allow the AI to expand, and how many neighbors would be a bit war-happy early on, hence the reason I went for a pretty tight city placement - with the plan of then taking over their cities.

Even without 'shooting myself in the foot' by using an obsolete city placement, this is certainly not my best game. I rushed through far too many turns. I certainly understand, and respect, those who play the GOTM very competitively, but I just wasn't in the mood for that. For this month at least, I'm just playing to try things out, see what works, and perhaps more often, but sometimes just as useful, what doesn't work.

Long term early war has really slowed down the research pace, at least on this continent. Spain, America, Iroquois, and Aztec are all in Republic now, and their war weariness must be at max. I wonder if I can even look forward to a culture flip or two from rebelling cities? I'm sure the war weariness is crippling their economy, never mind the three to four hundred or so combat units I've destroyed. With the high cost of unit support in republic and all the war weariness, they just can't have a large army. I'm sure I'll be able to steadily march over them.

In fact, thinking about it, when I meet the rest of the world, any that are in republic/democracy, I may just go to war with too. Sea invasion by the AI is poor at the best of times and in the MA, its laughable. If I can max out their war weariness, and slow down their economies, while I spend the time conquering the home continent, so much the better.

This really was an amazing start location. Settler farm, two luxuries, horses, and iron. I do wonder what the 'surprise' will be. I fear the only saltpeter, coal, rubber, aluminum, etc are going to be on the other continent, and directly under the capital of each AI...

Felton

Sep 07, 2004, 05:35 PM

I've been reading posts on this site for a while and its really impoved my game. I've struggled some with the Games of the Month and never submitted one. I may submit this one (as I actually finished it) if I can figure out how. This was also my very first game with the Mayans.

In this game I built a warrior, then a granary, then a worker (to go from size 5 to 4 to start the machine), then began spitting out settlers. But I was suprised, having never played a large map, how close my neighbors were. And when I met the Americans, they had more cities than I had! And I dont think it was humanly possible for me to get that factory up faster than I did.

As my plans for infinite expansion were spoiled by greedy Abe, I decided to go to war fairly early, and let the AI's build a few of my cities. So I did not fill in some areas, mostly to the west, that I could have gotten to in the intitial exansion. Instead, I concentrated on improving my economy and building a couple of barracks, plus a few temples so I wouldnt be sleepless over culture flipping.

I had an option to "slingshot" to republic or monarchy, and chose monarchy because I had a feeling I was going to be doing alot of fighting. Although expensive, I chose to do the vet warrior to sword upgrade (I think 11 swords from that) to get a good early armed forces, though I never built any more swords (horse types from then on). I know alot of people like nothing but horses, but swords are, for me, good to lead the initial breakthrough, and are nice to have till they cant keep up anymore. I had taken out the Americans by approximately the end of the AA, and was looking forward to paying Montezuma a visit. Unfortunately, I didnt take any notes, which might be helpful in the future. Oh, and I decided not to build the Jav throwers once I realized there were no barbs in the vicinity and they were pricey for what they did, and I decided to wait and trigger my golden age till later on.

I know some posters felt the game was too easy, but I really enjoyed it.

Cryspen

Sep 07, 2004, 09:12 PM

Probably be a few more days before I get back to my game, what with real life and all.

Rereading the threads, it would appear that few people take into consideration which civilization they are in their opening game; which is fair enough, you go with what you know works.

It looks like only a handful of players have explored using the Maya's Unique Unit, the Javelin Thrower. I was wondering what thoughts people had on them?

At first glance, they are nothing special: 2/2/1 for 30 shields. I don't think they are either over or under priced. However, a spearman at 1/2/1 @ 20 is cheaper for defense, and a horseman at 2/1/2 @ 30 costs the same and is (far) superior for attack, with its fast movement and ability to retreat.

Worse yet, to really make use of such a weak unit, you would have to deliberately slow down the tech race, so as to give the Javelin Thrower any chance at victories.

First: The tech race. I think most would agree that slowing down the tech race is, in general, counter productive. However, is it that much of a handicap? It would certainly depend on the game, but in many I'm not sure it would be a huge factor. I wouldn't want to try to do it on a single continent game, as there would be far too much chance of one AI taking an every growing the lead in technology. However, with islands or two continents, as long as your neighbors are equal or less, there isn't too much to worry about. In this game, I don't really care if the civ's on the other continent take a tech lead. As long as I don't see bombers coming after my knights, I'm not worried. Shear production of having the most landmass always allows for a comeback.

Second: The Javalin Throwers, as stated above, nothing special about the unit in terms of combat or cost. Being a low level ancient time unit they are game-wise weak, but certainly equal to their times. So what it all really boils down to is their unique ability: Enslavement. Can enslaving make up for a slowed tech research?

To most, a worker is a 10 shields inexpensive but required unit. Even the building of a single mine will quickly pay for the worker. But is this all a really all a worker costs? I think not. First, you have upkeep. Not many advanced games let you have total units below that of the free unit costs of your chosen Government. So for simplicity, lets assume a worker also costs 1 gold per turn. There is more though, a worker also represents a unit of city population, which means one less tile being worked. That means the loss of (the reasonably low estimate) at least a shield and a gold as income. This raises the cost of a worker to perhaps 6 gold per turn? Even more in the later game. Now, Maya's are industrial, which means that workers work 50% faster, and slaves work at only 50%. Two Mayan workers can road a tile in one turn, where as it takes 6 slaves to do the same. (No, the industrial trait of the Maya's does not appear to carry over to slaves.) 1.5 vs .5 So a Mayan worker is worth 3 slaves. Therefore, a Mayan slave, in Ancient times, is worth about 2 gold per turn. Not much, but not to be ignored either. Now, corruption has not been factored in here, but for now, consider the fact that a slave is free, or at least zero city shields, and we'll call it even.

Now, in my game, I'm about a third of the way in at turn 162. I currently have 137 slaves (according to Civ assist.) I've also lost at least a dozen more due to bad management. Mind you, I also had to use no small amount of Javelin Throwers to acquire them all. I've probably lost a lot more then 40 JT's, but lets call it 40 for this theory. I'm thinking that if I had traded in 20 of those lost JT's for 30 catapults, well, I'd still have lost the other 20 JT's just from the nature of combat, BUT, I'd still have the 30 extra catapults. Those, along with the 30 I currently have would make for 60 catapults, which is nothing to ignore. In fact, I think its safe to say that I'd also have several extra cities by now, and and another dozen or two slaves.

Third: Once you destroy another civilization, you can take all your slaves from that civilization and safely turn them into population in your cities, therefore gaining the full income of a shields, gold, food, etc. which could easily add up to the equivalent of 5 gold or more per turn/each.

What does this all add up to? About 300 gold per turn during the Middle Ages... What I'm not sure is, does that equate to even more money later on, or less?

Does all this make the JT a truly useful unit? I'm not sure... but I certainly haven't ruled it out.

Also of note: I haven't played any online, but I understand that most such multi-player games often end during the low techs. Would a JT more useful in those games?

What do other people think?

predesad

Sep 07, 2004, 10:16 PM

@ Crypsen

I am on the verge of trying to do what you have done, the tech pace in my game is slow on my continent, basically because i limited trade and i myself researched my last tech at minimum with a scientist. i kept myslef ahead, but the others behind and did not try to do things which would accelerate my tech rate, it netted a lot of gold. Now i am planning a war with the Aztecs using primarily the JT while they are still in the AA and have no upgrade available to knights / med inf / pikes / longbows. The JT as a 2/2/1 can compete with any of the normal UU & bests the Aztec UU (I am referring to strength and mean no argument about the bonuses of the extra movement & retreat etc, etc.) I am actually hoping the Aztecs have a lot of units, and I think if used right, this strategy could definitely pay off big time, or it could crash and burn. I doubt I will have the success you had though with 100+ slaves, but I sure will enjoy trying.

fbouthil

Sep 07, 2004, 11:13 PM

Open

I meet america & aztec very soon, before I have built a single settler!

2190BC Aztecs bring 1 archer & 2 warriors near Copan. I pop-rush a spearman and Aztecs loose their 2 warriors against it. Ouf!

2110BC Meet Iroquois

1075BC Switch to republic after the popular republic gambit.

1050BC Contact Spain

510BC-110BC War with Aztecs leaving them 2 useless cities. Could have done better if I built more horsemen instead of JT. Got furs & ML on the last turn of war.

I enter MA around 50BC. About half of the continent was still unknown to me at the time. I did not even know where Spain was! But I have very little corruption due to the FP in Technotitlan. Those cities would build a lot of knights later, but that is another story... (to be continued)

I thought I did very well, but I see many people got it about 500 years earlier. Of well, I am learning to be more humble.

I see most civ on our continent started with more than one food bonus so I guess Ainwood was not that generous after all. ;)

Randy

Sep 07, 2004, 11:50 PM

COTM04 open

I blew my time log around 2500 BC so I'm doing this from memory. :confused:

Goal quick as fast as I can get a domination win.

Start, worker went Ne, settler N. Founded Chichén Itza in 3950 BC. Study Alphabet @ 100%.

Built warrior, warrior, settler. I did this until I could build archors and swordsmen.

3300BC met Aztecs, 3150BC met an unexcorted American settler heading toward the silk. I chased him all the way back to Washington.

2850 BC: Copán founded. This puts the silk in Mayans land :goodjob:
2670 BC: Silk is hooked up.

My notes stop in 2550 BC this is were I attack :ar15: an American worker. America only has 1 city they did not use the settler yet. NY was founded west of Washington. I got NY, all American techs, and all their gold for peace.

During the American war I met the Spanish. (I almost killed their warrior.) :crazyeye:

I built a line of cities to block the Aztecs, I don't want to take on Jaguar Warriors yet. I'll wait for iron or horses. I later learn that Copán has iron and the next city over has horses.

I started the Spanish war :sniper: before they had 3 cities. I destored their size 1 second city. Made piece for all they had.

During one of these wars I got my Republic sling shot.[dance]

The turn I met the Iroquois I took 2 of their settlers :sniper: . They gave 2 or 3 cities for piece.

Around the time of the Iroquois war I started a war with the Aztecs, they were trying to send settler thru Mayans land. I took 3 cities. They give 3 cities for peace.

Next Americans now have 2 or 3 cities again. I kill them off and they respond in the south tundra. They give all they have for piece. I think 100gp and a worker.

At this time I also attack spain and Iroquois (I'm at war with 3 of 4 of the known civs. by choice. I hope this isn't stupid.)

Spain is gone, they do not respond. :banana:

Around this time I enter the MA. Can't remember the year maybe late BC?

All my galleys sank. Alot of them. [pissed]
The Iroquois are almost gone.
The Aztecs are no threat.
The Americans have 2 tundra cities.