If you have lots of tile visible, you have lots to discuss, right?

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm35large_new.jpg

And I was beginning to doubt claims that you were evil.

That's just, like, SO unfair!

Neil. :cool:

I'm going NW one tile and settling on the river.

My second city will be my Settler Factory once I get my irrigation out that far. I think I see one or two more wheat in the fog next to the wheat...

Is there a forest with a Lux to the SW of the plains? It looks like something white is poking out of the fog....

I think that I agree with you, MOTH. There looks to be more wheat in the fog and spices (?) in the forest. On the other hand maybe my eyes are too tired and I should go to bed :)

I am tempted to head straight towards the food, and put up with the problems of not having my capital by a river.

I think that I will move the settler S then SE, especially if we are industrious as it won't take long to get water to the wheat tile(s) and there are plenty of bgs to get a settler factory going if what I imagine in the fog is actually there.

Then again we may have a scout in which case there are even more choices. When do we find out the civ traits, ainwood? You tease us yet again with this start and my brain can't cope with all the possibilities. :crazyeye:

I've just edited this as I was partly thinking about traits in conquests. It definitely time for me to get some sleep :)

I'm going NW one tile and settling on the river.

My second city will be my Settler Factory once I get my irrigation out that far. I think I see one or two more wheat in the fog next to the wheat...

Is there a forest with a Lux to the SW of the plains? It looks like something white is poking out of the fog....

Those would be Dyes. And, according to my all-seeing fog-gazing eye, there are no more Wheats.

Those would be Dyes. And, according to my all-seeing fog-gazing eye, there are no more Wheats.

As long as someone has an all-seeing fog-gazing eye, because I have pretty much perfect vision but can never see a damn thing in the fog.

And I was beginning to doubt claims that you were evil.
Evil? Moi?



:evil:

Why? There's wheat, some gold, bonus grassland, a river, and allegedly some dyes!

As for traits: I haven't doctored the image, so we are NOT expansionist. The trait that is probably of most interest is 'industrious', so if you do decide to settler near the wheat, then you should be able to get it irrigated fairly quickly.

I would move worker to the mountain before i move settler to get a better view around.

Evil? Moi?



:evil:

Why? There's wheat, some gold, bonus grassland, a river, and allegedly some dyes!

As for traits: I haven't doctored the image, so we are NOT expansionist. The trait that is probably of most interest is 'industrious', so if you do decide to settler near the wheat, then you should be able to get it irrigated fairly quickly.

Don't act so innocent! Whichever way I go will be the wrong way. In GOTM33 I went north missing out on two cows in the south, in COTM2 and COTM1 I pretty much stayed put and missed out on far better locations. In COTM3 I missed out on the game and settler factory.

I'm tempted to go west because Ainwood probably put the best land beyond the mountains.

I think that I'll settle on the spot. We can't see a settler factory site for a considerable distance, and London (hoping for the English here!) will probably be churning out Settlers and Workers and not reach size 7 until long after Aqueducts are available anyway. The start location is quite strong with 5 BGs, two Mountains with Gold, a Wheat and a River.

Aren't the English expansionist in PTW? And Ainwood said he didn't mess with the pic.

Yeah definately not english...they are expansionist and non industrious. I'm thinking we could be the ottomans. The colour is largely influencing that though and based on past experience thats not realy much to go on.

I haven't doctored the image
Not even the civ colour?

If he's not doctored the Civ colour, then we're Ottomans. Mmm, Sipahi....
At which point he reveals it's Deity on a Pangea map and we all die quickly.

Neil. :cool:

5 BGs and a wheat allows a very good 6-turn combo factory between size 4 food 8 and size 6 food 8.
You can churn out 30 shields worth of units and a settler within 6 turns.
But the MM is very tricky then and may need a second city to block the wheat tile in some turns.
Settling in spot or one NE would allow this from what we see.
So I don't see a need for a big hike.
Settling east would lead to faster initial growth, but you are not guaranteed to have 5 BGs. You lose also river tiles.
In spot or NE is it for me. Everything in the fog is for other cities.

Don't forget that irrigation won't run through a hill city (not in 1.29, anyway). Though as we are industrious we can irrigate in 2 turns, right?

He doesn't have to doctor the image to change the civ color. That's an editing option.

Ooh, yeah - I was working on C3C Industrious. So worker->grass/bonus grass(1), irrigate(2), to grass(1), irrigate(2), to grass(1), irrigate(2), to wheat(1), irrigate(2). Wheat irrigated in 12 turns.

Build order will therefore be warrior, worker, because I'd like to get some roads going, and being Industrious, two workers really will make a difference.

Neil. :cool:

My tentative sequence is:
Settle NE, worker N to road and irrigate BG.
Worker brings irrigation and road to wheat via BG, then back via the roads to mine the BGs.
Again plain grass irrigation doesn't help for a long time so irrigating and then mining the BGs is no big loss. But having roads on these tiles saves several worker turns and also gives some commerce.
A second worker early doesn't seem appropriate. We need the population in the capital for shield production to get a granary soon. The one industrious worker can catch up with growth after the initial irrigation action.

Don't forget that irrigation won't run through a hill city (not in 1.29, anyway). Though as we are industrious we can irrigate in 2 turns, right?
I remember that from the Korean GOTM - but I thought it was something to do with rivers across a corner when you were on a hill?

To make it fair for all, I've now changed the river route.:)

For those of you who have a browser that's insisting on showing the cached version of the start picture (mine does :(), the revised version is below:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm35large_new.jpg

It shows no pic at all for me - neither in your first post, nor in your last.

Well, that's now a real nice location (at least until the next change ;) ).
I will settle east. Irigate the wheat as soon as feasible (have to analyse if there will be a road on a BG first).

Edit: At least it was a nice position in the two minutes I could see the new picture, now it's gone for me too.

Well, I was toying with moving the river elsewhere, but then the irrigation sequences for Civ / PTW players were still too different. I had wanted the players to choose between the river and the hill (defence) and the wheat. Now you get all three! :mad:

I hope I've edited the picture links and files correctly. The image should now show up OK in both posts.

It changes everything :hmm:

I remember that from the Korean GOTM - but I thought it was something to do with rivers across a corner when you were on a hill?Nope! Nothing to do with corners. Water just doesn't flow uphill in 1.29. I suspect Firaxis broke it in PTW if it's different.

To make it fair for all, I've now changed the river route.:)
Thanks! I had worked out a superbly optimised (for me) worker sequence to get the wheat irrigated exactly as the city expanded. Back to the drawing board :rolleyes:

I agree with klarius, settling east allows the wheat to be irrigated straight off and gives at least 4 BGs. I was getting very confused reading the earlier posts as I never saw the original starting picture!

My tentative sequence is:
Settle NE, worker N to road and irrigate BG.
Worker brings irrigation and road to wheat via BG, then back via the roads to mine the BGs.
Again plain grass irrigation doesn't help for a long time so irrigating and then mining the BGs is no big loss. But having roads on these tiles saves several worker turns and also gives some commerce.
A second worker early doesn't seem appropriate. We need the population in the capital for shield production to get a granary soon. The one industrious worker can catch up with growth after the initial irrigation action.
Yeah! I had all that worked out in detail and was about to post when I saw that Ainwood had moved the goalposts. If you roaded the first BG you could get the wheat irrigated just in time for turn 11 when the city expanded. The extra gpt from the road more than made up for the one turn delay moving the settler in my book. I was going to leave the second irrigated tile unroaded to save a turn and meet the turn 11 deadline. So that tile would have been a plain grass, to be left irrigated for later use. All wasted mental effort now, of course :rolleyes:

I also agree that a settler comes ahead of a worker, since our first worker is such an industrious little guy.

Just a first impression, but what makes me think about moving the settler e is not the bg or the wheat, but the forest! A settler factory without a forest is much worse (or online later) than one with a forest.

Whether the settler should be moved towards the wheat is largely dependant on the er, difficulty level [nudge nudge]. If only one citizen is born content rapid growth could be less valuable.

With all the gold around I might start researching the wheel. Would be nice to get a monopoly on that + building chariots rather than warriors.

Ed: Good point about the forest. It might also have game.

I'd love to know what difficulty level this will be on as well, but I don't think this decision depends on it.

Whether you move or not you will reach pop 2 at some point during the first ten turns. When you do, if the second citizen costs a gpt to keep happy, he can earn it from a road/river tile while he produces shields. After ten turns the wheat is in range anyway. So you're looking at a difference of 3 or 4 turns tops, after which the move becomes history.

I think the decision to move depends purely on the shield and gold production you can achieve using the two alternatives, and how quickly you can turn out a settler, and which of those factors is more important to your objective.

Personally, I'll go for an earlier settler if I can achieve it by moving, and the higher the level the harder I'll look for a way to do it.

Well... yes. Early settler could be really useful if there is a food bonus near the gold. I did not mean that difficulty level was the main factor.

I've never tried a OCC, but if that IS a lux in the fog, then a move one south would make a real nice spot for one. With the wheat, lux and 2 golds, on a river, with tons of production after the hospital goes in.

Even for a regular game, moving south would still be decent even with the loss of one BG. In either case (S or E), I would move the worker SE, road and then go to wheat to irrigate/road, then back to the roaded BG to mine.

If we really are the Ottomans this looks like a really nice start for a 5CC Space attempt. I'd choose Xevious' to the south as it is a really great spot for the capitol and frees up some really nice land to the north and east for cities 2 and 3. My first science goals would be the Wheel and Iron Working to ensure I get one of those two resources. I'll probably stick with my Conquest strategy for the first half or more of the game to thin out the competition and then use my forces to ensure noone else gets a ship launched. Of course, this will be dependant on the difficulty. A Diety Space might be a bit too much. Monarch however....

I haven't doctored the image, so we are NOT expansionist. The trait that is probably of most interest is 'industrious', so if you do decide to settler near the wheat, then you should be able to get it irrigated fairly quickly.
Ainwood didn't doctor the image. Did anybody else notice that there look like there is only one little white bar there? (i.e. no starting worker!) Maybe it is the image for the predator save file.

Well, I was toying with moving the river elsewhere, but then the irrigation sequences for Civ / PTW players were still too different. I had wanted the players to choose between the river and the hill (defence) and the wheat. Now you get all three! :mad:
We have a settler factory for any of the suggested moves (NE, E, SW, etc.) or in place. As was discussed in the COTM04 pregame, moving away from a sure thing would make no sense. As ainwood noted, we get to choose what we want our capital will look like in terms of terrain and resources and still keep the factory.

Settle in place:
Pros: Defense, 2Gold, 5BG, Wheat and one turn head start
Cons: need to irrigate G or BG, no forest

Move NE:
Pros: 1 Gold, 5BG, Wheat, Forest
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1G, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG

Move E:
Pros: 4BG, Wheat, Forest, can irrigate Wheat directly
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose 2Gold, lose Def Bonus

Move SW:
Pros: 2Gold, 4BG, Wheat, Forest with Dyes
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG

As I look at the above, I am not sure which I would choose. The Def Bonus and gold are low priority to me. I think the difficulty and the existance of a starting worker might play into the decision (i.e. if no worker then E move might get us going a little faster).

We need more information.


ainwood, do you care to comment on us having a starting worker? :p

The image reads: Settler mass production. Lots of roads & mines, and smaller towns.

That's probably how I would start. Not really caring about where the civilisation is expanding to, as long as it's expanding at full throttle. Small towns live well on sods of grass, yummy stuff! :)

Ainwood didn't doctor the image. Did anybody else notice that there look like there is only one little white bar there? (i.e. no starting worker!) Maybe it is the image for the predator save file.
Its just poor resolution on the picture. All classes get a worker. :)

BTW- the suspicions are correct: We are playing as the Ottomans.

I think what I'd wait for is the map attributes. If it's warm/arid then I might go for a few cities in that small oasis-style area, considering other towns outside of what can be seen will have little food to work on.

Its normal, temperate, 4-billion, 70% Ocean. Land form is 'interesting'. :hmm:

Its normal, temperate, 4-billion, 70% Ocean. Land form is 'interesting'. :hmm:

Oh, i hope we don't play island map again... :sad:

Considering the nice starting position and killer UU that Ainwood is giving us, I expect the difficulty level to be ratcheted up quite a bit. This may be that deity game that a few folks have been itching for.

If this will really be a deity game, this will be my first try on that level! Well, at least industrious and scientific are my favorite traits. Sipahi rocks, and if I can get enough of the upper research path techs in MA before using them, Golden Age would still be boosting production when building factories - if I can survive that long...

Good morning, level? Ainwood.

Can I get you anything? level? Cup of coffee? level? Donuts?

Good morning, Ainwood.

Can I get you anything? Cup of coffee? Donuts?

mmmmmm...... DONUTS!!!!

:coffee: <= I'm having my 4-shot flat-white right now! :D

Monarch?----

Interesting, eh? Probably chained islands with lots of land bridges, including several AI starting locations placed strategically on chokepoints.

Well, I've been thinking long and hard about the difficulty. I have been trying it on two varying levels, trying to decide what to release it on.

I am very conscious that over the last few months we seems to be in an 'emperor / monarch' oscillation, with the exception of last month where we threw in a regent game.

I was seriously considering a one-off warlord game, but in my opinion, this didn't allow best use of the Ottoman UU, which, again in my opinion, rocks! However, I think that an emperor (or deity) game isn't the right balance either. So we are going to play Monarch again - which I hope people aren't too sick of.

Monarch???!!!

Strongest players will probably finish this game with knights, even befor MT is discovered, not me of course, i will probably go all the way until tanks are available :rolleyes: ...

Well, we shall see how it goes...

so do we play continents this time again?

Actually I like Monarch difficulty the best. Emperor and Diety are good challenges, but I usually feel more comfortable playing Monarch and it certainly gives me more options when I play 5CC (a space win on Diety would be extremely hard.) Sure, the elites may not get to enjoy the Sipahi but the bulk of us will get to play with our shiny toy. :) And who knows? Maybe this unusual landmass will slow the All-Stars down some. If Ainwood says that Emperor with the Ottomans and what looks like a good start position may be too tough, well something is up and I'm betting it's the landmass. :hmm:

So we are going to play Monarch again - which I hope people aren't too sick of. I don't know who people are, but Megalou is indeed sick of it... he wants to take on the gods! he wants to rule the universe and aaaall alternative universes. You shall bow before him, you simple monarchs of mortality.

The game plan from cracker's time said 1-2 deity games per year.

The game plan from cracker's time said 1-2 deity games per year.There certainly will be Deity games, and I have one planned. There will also be COTM deity games as well.

Pleasing everyone in terms of setting the difficulty level is not easy (and I need to make it easy enough so that I can play test it without getting smoked ;))

Are you suggesting that I'm making the predator level a bit too easy? Would you like to try this game sans the industrious trait? :mischief:

The game plan from cracker's time said 1-2 deity games per year.

They were always with a very favourable start though, IIRC. I hope ainwood is equally kind when we get one as I need all the help I can get when playing diety :)

There certainly will be Deity games, and I have one planned. There will also be COTM deity games as well.

Pleasing everyone in terms of setting the difficulty level is not easy ... No worries, mate. Quoting cracker was not meant as a criticism, just a plain quote.
Are you suggesting that I'm making the predator level a bit too easy? Would you like to try this game sans the industrious trait? :mischief: :sad: No, just on deity. But I'm also getting suspicious about the landmass now.

Does anybody considered moving Settler SW? It would maintained all important benefits as well as it would allowed more space for further cities on this river. If we are positioned significantly north on the map, if the map is small, or if it is archipelago, I believe it can be justified.

So: monarch level with a benign looking start spot. Sounds simple.
Or is this "interesting" landform going to be a problem?

I quite fancy a simple game, as I have been learning bad habits by playing civ and a lot of civ2 recently.

In recent games on Monarch, it has appeared better to conquer with knights, rather than research mil trad, but this would be a pity considering the strength of the Ottoman UU.

I agree that a deity game seems overdue. But a warlord game is even more overdue.

ainwood, please don't remove the industrious trait!:( Boost AI to Emperior.

I made some map images and it seems to me there are another 2 wheats near starting point:

:blush: ehm... I never claimed to be able to see anything under the fog. To me, that all looks the same -uniform, featureless green... :confused:

I cannot see anything else either. But I plan on settling E and moving my worker directly to the wheat to irrigate it for growth on turn 7. If my worker sees something else when he gets on the wheat, I might adjust position the capital position accordingly. The forest is a nice to have, but since we have 4BG, it may not be necessary and I might cut it to get a granary faster (I will evaluate this).

On monarch level, defensive bonus for the capital is not an issue: no enemy attack force will get near it anyway. Another easy GOTM, unless ainwood has something up his sleaves! Maybe I can break the 10000 Jason score barrier this time, as I had over 9000 in the last GOTM & COTM. I was hoping for an emperor level game though.

And yes, I hope to win before MT, unless the landmass slows me down too much. I often research TW second after pottery to know where horses are and trade for IW, but since Ainwood sometimes put resources in places where we need to fight for it (or we have to be very fast with our settlers), I am not sure I will be patient enough...

How about a slightly modified Monarch, just slightly harder? Like maybe start Open class with 0 gold, or modify the AI bonuses just a little bit(extra settler or worker or something).

Here is my take on situation...
Ainwood is one and the only authority and we should not try to manipulate him... :)
Let him choose all the game settings, otherwise if he tries to please few people there are always will be others not happy with changes made and Ainwood is going to be blamed...

So.... Just let the person in charge to decide everything on his own.
Good job Ainwood and keep it that way :goodjob:

I agree with dmanakho for the Open games. Adding challenges for the predators (tougher AI, reduced traits) is why they choose that level.

I'm sure Ainwood has a map surprise (no resources on the map :cry: ) in store for us.

Ainwood is one and the only authority and we should not try to manipulate him... :)
Right.

I want loads of small sandy islands, and if I don't get my way, I'm going to subscribe Ainwood's IM details to spam merchant mailing lists. Clear?

*sucks thumb, stamps feet, bites thumb* :cry:

More seriously, I like an exploration-race that lasts until late in the game. On the other hand, it doesn't matter what I like, and I am very not terribly active in GOTM anyway.

:blush: ehm... I never claimed to be able to see anything under the fog. To me, that all looks the same -uniform, featureless green... :confused:

May be I see this because use LCD monitor? Using .jpg format and resizing the picture make the quality worse. But I confidence in S wheat at 90% and E wheat at 70%.

I will move Settler E and worker to the wheet for irrigation first.

If there is wheat on E this position gives us 4-turn settler+warrior from 4,5 to 6,5 city size (if will be automatic moving citizen from irrigated wheat to forest or mined grass).
:mischief:

No, it was mistake, only 4-turn settler. :(

If monarchy is not going to be difficult enough to require research to military tradition, then I guess another victory condition might have to be chosen! Of course the 'interesting' landmass may impose its own demands on this concept.

Yeah make it a compulsory space victory for the predator class.... then you get to play with the Sipahi while researching the required techs.

I'll be wimping out on open class so please don't take away the starting gold!

How do you people see the stuff under the fog???? I can make out terrain type but that's all!

Settle in place:
Pros: Defense, 2Gold, 5BG, Wheat and one turn head start
Cons: need to irrigate G or BG, no forest

Move NE:
Pros: 1 Gold, 5BG, Wheat, Forest
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1G, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG

Move E:
Pros: 4BG, Wheat, Forest, can irrigate Wheat directly
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose 2Gold, lose Def Bonus

Move SW:
Pros: 2Gold, 4BG, Wheat, Forest with Dyes
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG


Well, I think I have narrowed it down to Settle in place or move SW. I rechecked and the move SW still has 5BG and obviously doesn't lose def. So all I'm leaning towards that move. The extra Mountain/Hills will make for a powerful production center later in the game. So I figure the worker will move S to BG, Road, irrigate, Move E to Wheat, irrigate, road, move W to irrigated BG, Mine, Move SW BG, Mine, Road, Move S to lux, Road.

Even if there are additional wheat in the fog, I don't know why I would move away from the river when we have a 4-turn factory right there. The first settler can move that way and start another one.

Hmm. I like settling East because of the immediate access to the wheat. If it is true that more wheats lie under the fog, more interesting settler/worker/unit factory possibilites arise.

The main value of the starting position (or SW move) in this regard is the commerce you'd get from the gold, rather than the defense bonus.
But in the early game you won't trade food for gold -I would have to wait at least for the second city to use those mountains, and it may still be too early.

Still, I haven't made any calculation, so I am likely to be missing something as usual.

Well, I think I have narrowed it down to Settle in place or move SW. [...] I don't know why I would move away from the river when we have a 4-turn factory right there.

How do you make a 4-turn (settler?) factory? I don't see how population can grow faster than once every three turns given the bonuses that are visible.

Settle in place:
Pros: Defense, 2Gold, 5BG, Wheat and one turn head start
Cons: need to irrigate G or BG, no forest

Move NE:
Pros: 1 Gold, 5BG, Wheat, Forest
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1G, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG

Move E:
Pros: 4BG, Wheat, Forest, can irrigate Wheat directly
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose 2Gold, lose Def Bonus

Move SW:
Pros: 2Gold, 4BG, Wheat, Forest with Dyes
Cons: 1t delay, lose 1BG, lose Def Bonus, need to irrigate G or BG



Has anyone else considered moving south
Pros 2 Gold, 4 BG, can irrigate wheat directly
Cons 1t delay, lose Def Bonus

Moving S puts you on top of a BG, and it is next to at least one plains tile (maybe more). I will probably move E to allow for quick irrigation of the wheat. I don't see how others can see other wheats, etc. under the fog, but if there are other wheats they are likely clustered close together. I like staying on the river and still having all of those BGs and the forest tile nearby.

Looks like another great GOTM!

Fog-gazers may see bonuses, but they may disappear before the game gets posted. The difficulty is fine. Most people will enjoy the game on Monarch.

My guess on the catch:

There are at least 2 continents seperated by several ocean squares, and our continent will have weak research due to hapless warmongering.

We are Ottomans (scientific+industrious, UU=Sipahi), at Monarch level, on an "interesting" landform with 70% water.

I'm guessing that conquest will be an "interesting" goal :) That's what I'll go for.

I'm going to move the settler east because that will allow irrigating the wheat quickly. To me that's the top priority.

My build sequence will depend on what becomes visible in the early turns. If there are indeed a couple more wheat then I'll want a settler before a granary.

My initial research will depend on whether I'll be building a settler before granary. If so then I'll calculate whether I can learn both Alphabet and Pottery before I want my granary - if that's possible I'll research Alphabet first. If not then I'll research Pottery first. In either case I'll research as fast as I can and will hope for a chance to trade for the other of those two techs.

Although it is reasonable to expect Knights to suffice for a conquest victory at Monarch level, I plan to head for Military Tradition and to use Sipahi. Two reasons: 1) Sipahi are a lot stronger/faster than Knights. They should be able to make up at least some of the lost time, which may be as little as 16 turns. 2) They seem the best way to trigger a Golden Age for Ottomans. To use wonders to trigger a Golden Age before or with Chivalry means the Great Library is necessary, as well as one other wonder. But at Monarch level I don't want to build the Great Library, I'd rather use the shields for something else.

That is just a preliminary plan though! Sipahi are a long way off. If I get Monotheism as a free tech, if there's a strong reason to go to war asap, if a necessary resource is hard to come by, if a rival builds the Great Library early on (unlikely at Monarch) - any of these things could make me reconsider rushing to Sipahi.

I don't believe Ainwood ever mentioned the size of the landmass...
we rarely play anything but standard maps, although large map COTM is in progress...

With monarch game with standard map size and only 30% of land mass, I expect Sir Pleb and Co will finish this game before Sipahis come to play. Well, if conquest or domination victory is chosen that is.

I don't believe Ainwood ever mentioned the size of the landmass...
we rarely play anything but standard maps, although large map COTM is in progress...

With monarch game with standard map size and only 30% of land mass, I expect Sir Pleb and Co will finish this game before Sipahis come to play. Well, if conquest or domination victory is chosen that is.Sorry - should have mentioned that. It is standard (it would be a bit much to have two large maps in a month).

Barbs are restless. :)

This sounds good, to give some SGOTM4 training, I'm going to go for a 5CC. With Sipahi on Monarch, I think this one could even be a 5CCC, 5 City Challenge Conquest.

I was considering an attempt at culture 20K, but then tried a deity game as Ottomans (thinking we would have deity this time) and boy I can't believe how difficult it is to get both promotions and leaders as a non-militaristic civ. With a slower tech pace I might still go for it, but I can almost hear myself muttering about the lack of leaders.

Can anyone say if the RNG is actually meaner at higher difficulty levels?

I think this will be some kind of archipelago where we are the only ones isolated from all the other civs, because this is a tantalizing thought and if I were ainwood I wouldn't have been able to resist it any more.

I think this will be some kind of archipelago where we are the only ones isolated from all the other civs, because this is a tantalizing thought and if I were ainwood I wouldn't have been able to resist it any more.
Agreed. And there will be no goodie huts on our island either ;) The easy difficulty level would also point in this direction as it will take us a bit to get off this rock. I'm aiming my research towards map making with either Alpha/Pottery or Pottery/Alpha. Once I know how big the island looks then I will know how tightly I want to build my cities.

I'm thinking it's more of a continents game, but were at the tip with Greece (Hoplites) cutting us off from all the other tribes and without iron & horses battle our way out.

More likely it's Greece with Carthage behind them. If this were C3C, I'd suspect a Sumeria-Greece-Carthage-Netherlands-France setup for irritating defensive UUs in chronological order.

How do you make a 4-turn (settler?) factory? I don't see how population can grow faster than once every three turns given the bonuses that are visible.

I just realized I was thinking that since it is very similar to the COTM04 setup that it would be one like it was there. Only, I forgot that the agricultural trait gave us the one extra food. My bad. :blush:

Thanks for pointing it out. I would have messed up my start thinking I had a 4-turn factory.

Damn, that changes things. Now we need that other food bonus. The bad part of it is it would take 2 moves to find out if the fog gazers are right. Either that or move east of the river and settle.

If they are right then E or SE (Not that I want to settle a BG). Damn, damn, damn. Ainwood's dilema make even more sense, now. I guess east it is. Having finally gotten a 4-turn factory going, I want another! :)

Has anyone else considered moving south
Pros 2 Gold, 4 BG, can irrigate wheat directly
Cons 1t delay, lose Def Bonus

I plan to settle S. I'll be at size 6 soon enough and I'll get that bonus shield back then. If I was planning on using the capitol as a settler factory for any length of time though I'd probably choose another spot.

This sounds good, to give some SGOTM4 training, I'm going to go for a 5CC. With Sipahi on Monarch, I think this one could even be a 5CCC, 5 City Challenge Conquest.

I was thinking the same thing, but since I did Conquest last month I'm taking this as an opportunity to scratch Space off my list. Since 100k and Domination are impossible this is the last victory I've yet to win 5CC. I'd still like a harder Conquest win. Last month's picking on the Regent AI felt a little cheap. ;)

I'm guessing that conquest will be an "interesting" goal :) That's what I'll go for.


If ainwood don't remove scientific trait I think domination will be easier.
;)

We should have the saved games today!
LeSphinx

If ainwood don't remove scientific trait I think domination will be easier.
;)
Nope haven't done that (sorely tempted though - either that or decrease the citizens born happy, which could have been quite interesting, but might have messed with the scores a bit too much... :()

I'm thinking it's more of a continents game, but were at the tip with Greece (Hoplites) cutting us off from all the other tribes and without iron & horses battle our way out. The catch could be barbs too. ainwood said something about how the hill on the starting tile could be useful for defence. This would hardly be worth mentioning unless he has dotted the starting area with camps. :confused: Maybe the barbs have premade railroads to our garden. ;)

Not too sure if this is the right place to ask...

How do I play GOTM's using the modded terrain graphics that come with PTW? I know that for vanilla you need to overwrite the standard graphics, but PTW lets you play them as a scenario. Only trouble is loading the graphics as a scenario takes me to the start a new game screen and I want to play GOTM!

Any techno whizs know?

Now that the minimap location was revealed, I am even more tempted to settle SW instead of E. Fortunately I have plenty of time to make decision as I still have to finish COTM 04.

Not too sure if this is the right place to ask...

How do I play GOTM's using the modded terrain graphics that come with PTW? I know that for vanilla you need to overwrite the standard graphics, but PTW lets you play them as a scenario. Only trouble is loading the graphics as a scenario takes me to the start a new game screen and I want to play GOTM!

Any techno whizs know?
This thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98643) might be useful.

I overwrite the graphics to use them (like you mention) - just back-up my old ones first.

So if the fog peekers are correct we've got 2 GL Wheats, 1 Plains Wheat and 4 BG available in the local area if we move SE.

By my dubious calculations, if we mine all the wheat and 3 BG, we'll be able to create a 4-turn settler factory from size 3 to 5

Turn 1
Capital: 2 food & 1 shield at size 3
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined BG 1: 2 food & 2 shield
Total: 10 food & 5 shield

Turn 2
Capital: 2 food & 1 shield
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined BG 1: 2 food & 2 shield
Total 20 food & 12 shields - city grows to size 4 and uses 2 a mined BG for shields

Turn 3
MM to Mined GL Wheat to Mined PL wheat & add new citizen to Mined BG
Capital: 2 food & 1 shield
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined PL Wheat: 2 food & 2 shield
Mined BG: 2 food & 2 shield
Mined BG: 2 food & 2 shield
Total 31 food & 21 shields

Turn 4
Capital: 2 food & 1 shield
Mined GL Wheat: 3 food & 1 shield
Mined PL Wheat: 2 food & 2 shield
Mined BG: 2 food & 2 shield
Mined BG: 2 food & 2 shield
With 11 new food city grows to size 5 and uses Mined GL Wheat
Total 42 food & 32 shields and settler completes going back to size 3

Trying to get this techincal is new to me even though I've been playing for a couple of years now. I'm normally a irrigate brown & mine green kind of player until I get out of despotism. The student has come before the masters asking for confirmation and correction where applicable. :worship: :help:

I can't follow your numbers. I usually just count the surplus food generated by each tile after its citizen has eaten 2. The capital gives 2fpt because no citizen eats its output, and a mined grass/wheat gives 1 fpt. For a 4 turn factory with a granary you need 10 surplus food every 2 turns.

By my dubious calculations, if we mine all the wheat and 3 BG, we'll be able to create a 4-turn settler factory from size 3 to 5
Sorry, I think you'd be better off counting food the way AlanH does :(

In your turn 1 you produce 10 food but your citizens consume 6. Same in turn 2. Assuming you have a granary you need to accumulate 10 surplus food to grow but you have just 8 at the end of turn two.

I forgot, my people have to eat :lol:

I guess I'll have to dig out that settler factory article before I start or just use my usual (lazy) rules of thumb and take what comes.

Just to make it clear, you need to irrigate one of those grassland wheats, to get +5fpt, and then you don't get near to 30 shields in 4 turns, I count 23.

So 3/5 doesn't work. 4/6 or 5/7 probably will.

smackster

I forgot, my people have to eat :lol:

Another small tip:
Don't forget that not only the citizens in the capital have to eat.
You only need two wheats (+3 mined BGs) for an easy 4-turn settler factory. Anything more (if it should be there :scan: ) is better used by the next town.