I'm not posting about BFV because it's pretty much the same game...and hell, I like WW2--although there is a mod (or a few of them) out that allows you to play it using WW2 vehicles and models...only you get more realistic trees...*ucking yay, I can see leaves while I'm blowing stuff up!

I want to talk about his game because it's probably still the best FPS when you take into account requirements compared with something like Unreal II or Halo II--which are technically the new standard.

How shall I start this? How about a rating out of 10 (compared to...uh...some game that it can be compared to):

Graphics: 7/10
I'm not really one for graphics since I focus heavily on gameplay but a bit of atmosphere can go a long way as long as it doesn't muck up gameplay and this game doesn't.

Sound: 5/10
Real rounds going by you don't sound like that. 'Nuff said.

Replayability: SP 6/10
This is mainly beacuse of the AI.
MP 9/10
There could be more interesting objectives and stuff but hell, there is always some clever new way to frag other players when one's provided with such a variable arsenal of weaponry and vehicles.

AI: 5/10
Bots don't respond to commands bots kill their own idiot sleves way too often, accuracy is way too high--this could be partially dealt with by not allowing them to aim until a target is within visual range... The list goes on and on but it's still playable, which is more than I can say for some other WW2 FPS games.

Interface: 7/10
Simple but sometimes too simple. Minimap keeps track of friendly units but other than that is not very helpful except at keeping you from flying 'away from the battle' and being eliminated as a deserter before you can re-enter the battle :rolleyes: . As I said above, the bots pay no attention to your orders so the orders menu isn't any use in SP and you're better off with the chat in MP anyway. The start menu interface really pisses me off because it's majorly lacking in terms of game options, especially in SP--and SP is where you really want the options in order to make up for the lack of interesting play you get from other players.

Gameplay: 8/10
Drive tanks, fly planes, sail ships, snipe (with Bazookas ;) ), plant explosives WHEREVER YOU WANT, steal the other side's vehicles, hold actual strongpoints (as opposed to some flag) and all in WW2 setting. Need I say more?

Yes, I need. Those were the good things. The bad things are little but have an effect:

No peeking. This would be VERY helpful when playing againt the bots--who are already aiming at you but only fire when there is nothing blocking the shot (unless it's another bot, in which case the bots just keep shooting...even if the bot in the way is on the same side :rolleyes: ).

Weapons take too long to stabilize (especially the sniper rifle)--with the exception of the Bazooka and Panzerschreck, which are rocket-firing weapons and basically fire where you point them thus you can actually get more accuracy out of them than a rifle WITH A SCOPE. I like playing the sniper so being fragged by a Bazooka while I wait for the sight to center on the target doesn't make me particularly happy (and being well-concealed doesn't help in SP because the bots are set to react to things they can't 'see'...MP is another matter ;) ...'camping' indeed!).

Another issue with bullet-firing small arms is that they shoot like lasers (i.e. there is no delay before the hit, so this means that you can get a headshot from 1/2 K away with the guy running and continuously turning on a dime--no friction on turns as in other FPSs so bots can change directions without the effect of inertia taking place). [For the wise-guy who says that my laser example is flawed because even light has a finite speed I say: there are forums for people like you...and this ain't one of 'em.]

Vehicles blow up way too quickly so getting your tank knocked out means the end almost every time (on the occasion that it doesn't immediately blow up, you get but a second or two to jump out and since explosions have an unrealistically damaging effect on the player, you get toasted even though you're 5 meters away from the tank--so it's like a grenade blowing up).

Health is unrealistic. You fall four feet and you practially die. You fall higher and it's 'yoshi is no more.' A 5-year old would be less delicate!


Granted, a lot of these things can be, and most cases have been dealt with by the modding community. But some things are beyond even modders. These are some of the things I would like to see patched in to Bf1942 that are unlikely to be modded as the features do not exist:

Interface:

- Player ticket options in the SP start menu (more of them in the MP menu)
- Engaged enemy units appear in Mini-map
- Use of individual weapons
- Toggle weapon disappearance On/Off
- Mission objectives (e.g. must capture/destroy x before x)

Player:

- Peeking (Q and E; make F the new enter/exit vehicle button)
- Sprinting (GOD how great it would be to go faster than that stupid trot, even if only for a few seconds; would be very helpful when running between buildings--especially in MP as SP bots will hit you even if you're Speedy Gonzales)

Weapons:

- Hit delay (fired shots don't take effect immediately)

Vehicle:

- Gears (using keyboard numbers as default)
- Speedometer (apparently compasses are possible to mod in but not this)

AI:

- No reaction to non-visible units (just about the only part of the AI that hasn't been modded)


That's all I can think of for now. Any of this worth the trouble of patching?

(I had some ideas for a system of campaigns but I'll leave that until I see some replies. No sense in writing if there's no one reading.)

Not a single reply? Not even a sarcastic peep? ...

I read it, BF is pretty much the only game I play nowadays.

The fall damage disturbs me the most, everything else is ok and on multiplayer it's super.

BTW what do you mean with hit delay, should the bullets have some visual dodgeable track?

I play all the classes, depending on the situation.

I always play as a medic, I like their healing ablity and their primary gun is the best in the game.

I use Engineer, especially in Pacific :D

@Hakim:

I know what you mean; I used to play quite abit of Counterstrike, Unreal, Quake, then I got into Operation:Flashpoint which was quite elaborate in terms of interface but sometimes a bit too elaborate for an FPS. Then Halo and tried out some other stuff. MOH and RTCW series are basically SP-oriented (i.e. heavily scripted) and MP is just running around maps using the same arsenal that you use in SP. When BF came along, all that flew out the window.

Yeah, the fall damage is way too exaggerated (to the point of absurdity actually) but I only included things that are not moddable AFAIK.

What I meant by 'delay' was actually was just adding in a timer to the script so that when you fire there your shot won't count at x distance until x.

But, it doesn't really matter how its done; since heavy rounds travel along a visible arched track, there is no reason why bullets can't do the same (only without the arc). I think the reason why this isn't so already is because the round travelling along a track takes up CPU time (even if only a bit) but heavy rounds aren't fired that quickly anyway. An MG on the other hand, may fire hundreds of bullets per minute, thus CPU usage goes up. (This is a guess on my part as I don't know how the small round system really works--maybe it does travel along a track only there's no speed limit assigned to bullets thus you get the 'laser' effect.)

@Emp.Napoleon:

I used to always play sniper in SP but the long reloading time and waiting for the sight to center was irritating. Besides, the AI is tracking you at all times (e.g. hide in a building out of view, have an enemy tank come up to the building to the side nearest to you and wait there eternally--or until you look out a window and since it's already aiming at you, blows you away instantly) so there's really no point except to pick bots off at long range...but this gets rather boring after a while.

I guess the medic is best since you get the SMG and the medkit but the range is very limited and if playing SP, the bots don't usually miss at close range (i.e. bot shots you between the eyes the split second it turns a corner) so the medic's healing ability is not very helpful there. And MP I always feel like I'm cheating when I play as medic.

Now, when playing against humans on the other hand...on can get pretty creative using pretty much any kit. This is where that sprinting feature I mentioned would come in very handy.

Another thing that has been dealt with in mods but not in BF is the perfect accuracy of the Bazooka's rocket screws up the game in both SP and MP: in SP the bots snipe with it and in MP you get n00bs who just run about using it as a close-combat anti-personelle weapon since the weapon's stability is not an issue. IMO, it would make both game modes better if the Bazooka/Panzerschreck were made less accurate at long range and far less accurate when running.

But, as I said, the modding community has addressed most of these issues though. Thing is, you have to put up with lots of bugs when using mods as they aren't as 'smooth' as BF.


I think the peeking feature I mentioned would really make for awsome BF gaming. It works great in other games that have the feature. Especially useful when facing tanks: you want to stay as covered as possible.

Speaking of cover, something that would make people who use tanks lives easier would be the ability to break buildings apart when firing upon them. As it is, all you have to do is run into a building and they can't touch you without getting out of the tank and running in after you. MOHAA made use of this feature in the tank levels (i.e. certain walls preset to break apart and reveal inside of the buidling when hit by a shell). Would also give the map a 'lived in' :D look where ruins are created by actual combat rather than just looking like that from the start (a la Kharkov or Stalingrad). I would probably make the breaking apart slow though (unlike MOHAA) or use a damage mechanism like vehicles do (i.e. x hits result in wall blowing up).

The moving sight when snipering is to reflect that your hands aren't perfectly steady, and that your breathing affects your aim. If you're prone, it's not so bad. Standing is where it's worst.

@Yoshi: when I started to play BF I found it very refreshing to be out in the open. I'm fed up with all those tunnels, corridors, elevators etc. I also prefer the weapons. I also think the weapons in the Quake and UT series are too eccentric.

So what mods have you guys tried? I've tried Desert Combat, Silent Heroes and Galactic Conquest. I like Desert Combat best.

I've only tried Desert Combat. Found it to be crap ;)
BF1942 is good, but i've been playing it ALOT in the past 2 months (since getting broadband), and i'm getting kinda tired of it.

RE yer review: You have given the bots too much credit. They should get 3/10 at the most. I love every other aspect of the game :)

Sniping: I've used a rifle before (granted, not at those extreme ranges) and it doesn't sway that much...and my aim--in RL--isn't all that great to begin with! My comment was really to point out that all in all, the sniper has too many disadvantages (e.g. low ammo, too much swaying, missing even when on target, very slow to reload).

@Hakim: Its funny that you should say that, because the open levels are great for vehicles but hell for infantry. When not using vehicles, Stalingrad is probably my preferred level even if its a bit small for my taste. For example, El Alemein is great for air-to-ground combat but having to bail out and being stuck in the middle of the desert is a sure way to get fragged.

Mods have a lot of problems because they haven't necessarily had the level of development that BF had, although DC comes pretty close. Personally, I just enjoy the WW2 setting so Battle Group 42 would be the best mod IMO.

Bots: Yes, they could use some serious help but considering that they have to operate in a highly unscripted environment (e.g. must react to a wide variety of triggers within just one situation), I wouldn't knock them too much. Just DL the Realplayer bot mod. The difference should be quite noticable.

Personally, I think that if the AI just weren't to have the ability to aim at you until you are actually in view (this is the reason why they get perfect shots instantly), Sp gameplay would be much better.

@Yoshi: if you drive a vehicle into the desert and it gets destroyed, hide behind the wreckage. At least in DC it remains for quite some time and provide protection from enemy fire.

I'll try BG 42, it's nice that it's available as torrent.

Desert Combat is great simply because of the choppers. :D I love flying those.

I have BF1942, but I stoped playing it when Operation Flashpoint upstaged it when people started making Battlefield 1985 MP missions. And there's no chance of me going back now I've discovered the vast amount of CTI missions people keep making.

The first thinig I noticed about DC was the sound of the clothes when moving, quite realistic (the little I know about how it sounds).

Health is unrealistic. You fall four feet and you practially die. You fall higher and it's 'yoshi is no more.' A 5-year old would be less delicate!

Several ways around this.

Run 'uphill'

When going over an edge that is higher than you thought or when you mean to, simply turn your perspective around and look up the slope you are going down. You will rarely take damage no matter how high the slope is.

Parachute

Jump over the edge and press 9 to open your parachute. You will take no damage if the chute opens. Safest method but parachutes are highly visible so not one I use too often when getting into position to Snipe or in Capture the Flag games.
This can also save your life when caught in an explosion and not killed outright. If you open the chute while in air you will be alive when you land rather than dying on impact. Quite tricky to do but worth a go.

Diving.

When you approach an edge that is larger than 4' you can press Z and dive over the edge and slide down the slope on your belly. Unfortunately if the surface is not smooth you can take some damage from the bumps but a whole lot less than death.

Quokka, I am aware of those solutions but thanks. My point was that there the damage rating for impact from a fall is way to high. The AI uses the parachute trick EVEN WHEN THE BOTS HAVE BEEN THROWN INTO THE AIR BY ARTILLERY FIRE! (There are few things that irritate me more than firing heavy rounds at enemy infantry causing them to be thrown into the air--which kills them when they hit the ground, if it hasn't already--only to see them open their parachutes, float down to earth and keep running as if nothing happened! :mad: )

A solution to this expoit would be to limit the use the parachute by only being able to activate it when in an aircraft. (Odd how designers never thought of that. :confused: )

I have been thinking about what whole new XP for BF1942 could look like. I was thinking of innovations like linked maps, a ranking system, new items, new player abilities, AI tweaks to make it play better, all sorts of functionality that is simply not moddable (i.e. only the guys at Dice could do it).

Unfortuantely, with BFV and the upcoming BF2, I seriously doubt there will be another XP for BF1942 (not to mention that 2 XPs are usually the industry limit for most games).

I'll post it later anyway...if only for posterity.

Except for the Sims :p.

I agree the damage rating is too high for falls. A shot from a sniper rifle does 1/2 damage if not to the head but tripping over your shoelaces is fatal?

The bots using the parachute trick is annoying as hell.
Only in planes would make sense but would rob me of a very valuable option.
How many times have you started over a bridge only to find a Tiger coming up the other side? Exit stage left and chute.

I doubt another XP is on the way but look forward to BF2 as I don't really rate BFV at all. I have to get some things sorted before its release though as I am going through a mini BF1942 addiction right now and can't really afford to and I won't have this much free time in the future, ever unless I start budgeting for it now, much like my retirement and 401k.

I was thinking of innovations like... ...a ranking system
There are several online ranking systems. The best being:
http://www.bftracks.net/

When statwhoring, my best ranking was 22nd (without cheating/baseraping/whatever) :cool: I no longer statwhore...

I have nothing against being able to open yer parachute when blown into the air btw. It's really useful for me, and it doesn't bother me when my opponents do it :)

@andvruss: Except for the Sims

Heh, yeah there are definitely exceptions.

@Quokka: A shot from a sniper rifle does 1/2 damage if not to the head but tripping over your shoelaces is fatal?

Couldn't have put it better myself. But the sniper isn't fatal below the neck just to prevent the Sniper player type from gaining too much of an advantage over the other player types--if they did this, they'd have to reduce the Sniper ammo to one clip and no grenades just to make it fair (not that it would make any difference to the AI, which usually goes for headshots).

How many times have you started over a bridge only to find a Tiger coming up the other side? Exit stage left and chute.

See the thing is, if you really were infantry up against a tank in WW2, you wouldn't have that option--if you make the mistake of not searching the area for tanks first, the rule of life says, 'you dead.'

Realism aside, eliminating the 'jump-n-chute' escape strategy would keep things more balanced in SP mode because it prevents the human player from doing things that the bots wouldn't (i.e. bots aren't programmed to 'escape'; the only attack--like most FPS bots).

I doubt another XP is on the way but look forward to BF2 as I don't really rate BFV at all.

XP: What did RtR and SWoWW2 prove? Players weren't happy with them because they offered little that the modding community couldn't do (or hadn't already done for that matter). The only thing most players really bought the XPs for where the maps IMO. This proves that an XP that were to offer more new features (i.e. tweaks to game mechanics--can't be modded from BF1942) and maps (something nobody seems to be much good at, hence the modding option isn't necessarily there), would sell even now.

If I understand anything about sales, if the XP were different enough, at least everyone who bought RtR would buy the new XP.

BFV: Not different enough to justify buying it.

BF2: Sports new features like Commander Mode (give general orders--although I think this only refers to MP play, so the bots may still not listen to you! ;) ), guided weapons, 100+ player MP (even with present limit, players have trouble staying organized and chaos ensues), 'material penetration' (I'm assuming this means that rounds go though 'penetrable' objects and not something dirtier :p ), character growth (allows player to increase in rank and get rewards for success), voice-over support (convenient but nothing to brag about as it's already been done) and some other non-revolutionary stuff that should have been in BF1942.

More importantly, it also sports higher requirements (you can figure that out just by reading, "all-new gameplay engine brings the immense locations to life complete with realistic physics and dynamic lighting"). Another BF1942 XP would not. This will limit a lot of players who are presently just barely able to run BF1942.

And of course, new vehicles and player types (both of which are already moddable).

BF2 will also inevitably cause the modding community to forget about BF1942 and make the jump to the new game--just look hwo quickly they made the jump to BFV.



It's funny that these features are so abvious that I put them all down as XP potential features. So that means that these are things that are fairly logical and any player will want to see these features. All of this, minus the guided weapons, should've been in BF1942.

But, I'm familiar with the way developers think: features that don't need to be included aren't (i.e. the game just has to be better than the competition, not much better--in other words you include the minimum, not the maximum number of features; just enough to give something different to consumers). Would BF1942 have had better sales had these features been included? No. Enough said.
For that reason, BF2 will probably not include stuff like peeking and sprinting.

So you'll get slightly less stupid bots, and some new game features at the cost of upgrading your system and buying a whole new game. Yay.

BTW Quokka, your addiction will pass once you've played each map for the five-hundredth time or so. Of course, I guarantee nothing with mods. ;)

@Gainy bo: [B]There are several online ranking systems.

Yeah, I know but I wasn't referring to stats by themselves.

What I was proposing was that in SP campaign, you rise in rank according to score per map. The higher the rank, the more control you have over the battle. The other day I was thinking of a really cool feature (IMO): higher death ticket penalty for officers (rank higher than Private) killed--the higher the rank, the greater the penalty to the defender's team. Also, only officers call in air/artillery strikes. So, as a sniper, you would search out officers (infantry with extra chevron and insignia on helmet) so as to do more damage and reduce the enemy's capabilities. You'll see what I mean when I post the mock-up XP Readme file.

BF2 features something like this (as I mentioned above).

I have nothing against being able to open yer parachute when blown into the air btw. It's really useful for me, and it doesn't bother me when my opponents do it

But doesn't it just defeat the purpose of the game? The parachute thing alone turns a relatively realistic WW2 FPS into a fantasy game.

It doesn't bother you that when you send a round into the midst of a group of infantry, blowing them into the air, they just float back down thus nullifying the effect of your well-placed artillery fire?

At the very least, the parachute should take longer to be effective so that it won't have any affect before x seconds have past (i.e. a certain height).

Of course, in saying that I'm implying that the fall damage factor is reduced as well to compensate...wouldn't want to leave you without either. ;)

What I was proposing was that in SP campaign, you rise in rank according to score per map. The higher the rank, the more control you have over the battle. The other day I was thinking of a really cool feature (IMO): higher death ticket penalty for officers (rank higher than Private) killed--the higher the rank, the greater the penalty to the defender's team. Also, only officers call in air/artillery strikes. So, as a sniper, you would search out officers (infantry with extra chevron and insignia on helmet) so as to do more damage and reduce the enemy's capabilities. You'll see what I mean when I post the mock-up XP Readme file.

I remember something like this in an old Amiga game called Commandos. If you, and your squad, made it through a level alive then they got promoted. Promotions granted more speed, accuracy etc and better adherence to orders. This would be unfeasable in BF as its damn near impossible to live through and entire map, but the ticket option sounds cool and the limited ability to call in strikes would be handy.

In online it would be great to have a ranking system and their orders had to be followed if they are within a certain distance. Orders like 'Follow me' could be enforced by a high rank so they could form an attack squad to take the vitally needed spawn point and stop 5 idiots from plane/tank camping in the base as the tickets run down.

Personally I would like some sort of exclusion zone in MP. I hate it when I am a sniper and have spent minutes getting into position only to have a total noob come and stand very close and draw attention, especially from a distant Priest/Wespe. Precedence decided by rank and can be turned off so more than one person can shoot from inside a building for example.

BTW Quokka, your addiction will pass once you've played each map for the five-hundredth time or so.

In the interests of science I plan to test this theory :salute:

I play under the name of Bratwurst and mostly CTF games at the moment. I hope to shoot you some time. :D

If you, and your squad, made it through a level alive then they got promoted. Promotions granted more speed, accuracy etc and better adherence to orders. This would be unfeasable in BF as its damn near impossible to live through and entire map, but the ticket option sounds cool and the limited ability to call in strikes would be handy.

Increasing skills like that (i.e. better accuracy, etc.) would still look kind of odd having the same guy respawn will better abilities but what the heck, BFs not that realistic. In my case, I was thinking of applying it to vehicles as well (e.g. new 'Pilot' player type--pistol, parachute--would be the only type to be able to use aircraft; higher rank means more advantages like more stable flight for accurate fire).

It's assumed that in BF, 1 bot represents a ton of guys (i.e. that's what the death tickets are about and also the reason why you respawn instead of staying dead as in other realistic FPSs). Nevertheless, the officer distinction would really make sniping awsome IMO and reward players that do well by making them offciers thus giving them additional abilities.

I was thinking about a new feature for Campaign mode: story-based so if you die, the map has to be repeated. You start out as a Private and rise through the ranks according to you performance as you progress through the campaign. It would add a nice touch if you could get demoted if you screw up to many times (e.g. losing too many death tickets due to sending bots to their deaths without getting the equivilant in kills).

I would also like to see special missions (e.g. as a memeber of a British Commando team, you must capture a German prototype aircraft; fly it to x point on the map and you win).

Man, there's just so much stuff that could be done to make this game even more awsome than it already is. Don't get me wrong, the modding community has put out some excellent work but there are some things that just can't be modded without getting into the area of copyright enfringement (i.e. you can mod but you can't hack). It's to bad the XPs didn't offer more features instead of just maps and vehicles--both of which net is full of.


In the interests of science I plan to test this theory
Test away! :D

Aside:
It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them--they just yell, 'f-ing camper!' So the 'ol tactic of running out at the other guy with guns-a-blazing doesn't work, good riddance! It doesn't work in reality--greens that do that in the Corps. don't last long--so why should it work in a simulation? I think these players are under the assumption that they're playing Unreal or Quake or something where you can take direct hits from rocket launchers and still keep on kick'n. Personally, I love having to move along the floor whenever I pass by a window when in a building because there's probably a pro sniper in the vicinity just waiting for some goof to get near a window. IMO, there's nothing like playing against a good sniper.

The one big downside to BF where snipers are concerned is that rounds don't explode through walls so even if you know where a sniper is, you have to go into the building an search him out or use a sniper of your own, instead of just using a tank gun to blow up that section of the building--which is much easier and you don't have to risk being ambushed in a building.

It would be so awsome if bots could function that way in an unscrptied (i.e. not pre-set a la MOHAA) environment.


BTW, you guys shouldn't forget to check out some of the mini-mods out there (if you haven't tried them already). There's one that's quite good--can't remember the name right now--that increases the damage factor of all weapons so you really have to make your shots count; sniper rifles are lethal no matter where you hit. VonManstein's No Bazooka mod is great for SP Infantry-based maps so you don't have swarms of Bazooka-carrying bots all over the place (this guy also has some other mini-mods that make the weapons more historically realistic).

There is also a mini-mod that makes small arms fire much more accurate...I recommend it if you're playing MP--fragging human players with the default sniper rifle is near impossible if the other guys are any good because they'll just keep zig-zagging (ever see 'The In-Laws?') in order to avoid being hit and there's no inertia for players so they can turn 90 degress instantaneously.

It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them

No it's not. I hate snipers :p There is virtually no skill involved, they try not to give anyone the opportunity to shoot them (by hiding/shooting from distance) and they help the team in almost no way. Most are homosexual :mischief:pro sniper Oxymoron.

Talking about mods, I downloaded the Pirates mod for it at the start of the week. There's only really 1 type of guy worth going, but it can still be really fun :)

Aside:
It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them--they just yell, 'f-ing camper!' So the 'ol tactic of running out at the other guy with guns-a-blazing doesn't work, good riddance! It doesn't work in reality--greens that do that in the Corps. don't last long--so why should it work in a simulation? I think these players are under the assumption that they're playing Unreal or Quake or something where you can take direct hits from rocket launchers and still keep on kick'n.

Agreed. People who yell camping aren't playing the right game. Snipers are an important part of any team. If you've got a balanced team, you'll have snipers. How do you think the allies are going to take out the machine gunners in the bunkers on Omaha Beach? With snipers. You could try get into the base to take them out, but that'll take longer probably require several attempts. It's why I hardly ever use an emplaced machine gun for very long, stay there too long, you'll get sniped.

And sniping does require a lot of skill. It requires more skill than running at someone and firing wildly. :p

If I get killed by a sniper, a sniper in my team haven't done his job properly. Sometimes this annoys me enough to become a sniper myself.

Omaha Beach is a good example of a map where the sniper's efforts are crucial. Not only on the beach, because when you've taken the next flag there will be snipers waiting on the cliffs.

Why do artillery shells start dropping right on your spawn point? Because of a sniper, and another sniper is usually required to take him out.

Sniper duels can be great fun.

There is nothing as enjoyable as Sniping another sniper, especially on the larger maps like El Alamein. You just know hes spent minutes running into place only to get killed as he sights his first victim and has to run all that way again.

I also like sniper because of the death animations of the victims, the head kicking back and the sack of potatoes slump to the ground ...

The people that yell 'campers' are usully the ones that are camping either for planes or tanks and deserved to be shot. You'd think after they had been shot 5+ times in the same area they would change to Assualt/Medic and search the area but most of the time they don't.

The only time I hate snipers is when half of my team are snipers on maps like Battleaxe or Berlin (wtf?) and when you hit TAB they have stats like 0 0 0 or even worse 0 0 11. How can you complain about a sniper with 20 kills?

Guadalcanal is another map promoting sniper duels. It's exciting when the other sniper has discovered you and you both know you only have a fraction of a second to stabilize the aim and shoot.

An important sniper skill is to choose spot wisely, not to have the sky in the background and lying next to a larger object.

However, a lot of snipers can be a sign of weakened morale, when the situation is hopeless. Sniping will not get any flags.

edit: although painting targets for an artillery can be the last resort to break out from a cornered situation.

Originally posted by Gainy bo:
No it's not. I hate snipers There is virtually no skill involved, they try not to give anyone the opportunity to shoot them (by hiding/shooting from distance) and they help the team in almost no way. Most are homosexual
It's funny if the other player runs out into the open shoting at everything that moves a la Quake only to get sniped and stammer that some shuck's camping when this tactic is even more suicidal against bots--the 1.6 patch and some mods (namely RealPlayer, which is also used in others) have made the bots much more accurate.

Bot accuracy: This I don't think is fair...but what can you do. I've been sniped so many times when playing against bots. Why? Because I suck? No. Because playing againsta bot sniper is like playing against a player who is equipped with X-ray goggles, an eye looking in every possible direction and has god-like accuracy. The result is that there's no point to hiding and dodging and flanking and all that stuff because the AI knows all; the bot's already aiming at you even though you're behind an object and not only that but no matter how much you change direction, the bot will get you square between the eyes every time. Not challenging. It's like fighting a robotic-like demi-god: you can kill him because he may be concentrating about something else but if he's concentrating on you, it's time to respawn--there's no way you're going to snipe him faster than he will you unless you're before he aims at you.
BUT no human player can do that so then its fair because even the guy with a pistol can still figure out where you're hiding, sneak around and shoot you in the back.

In MP, everything's fair--the sniper wouldn't have been added if it weren't (i.e. each player type is balanced so that no type has an advantage except in circumstances suited to them.

Sniping requiring no skill: in BF1942 1.0 and up to I can't remember which patch the sniper rifle would stay completely static after swaying for a few seconds. Now there is always a slight sway so you actually have to take the sway into account. Also, if you fire you early, the shot--though well-placed--will automatically miss...so in a sense, it's actually harder than firing a real rifle.
Unfortunately, small arms rounds are instantaneous so you don't have to calculate the delay (i.e. round hits the very instant it is fired, regardless of range) so you can freely aim directly at a moving target at even a great range and still get a hit, unlike reality where you have to fire ahead of the target in order for the round to arrive at the point the target will within that time. So in that sense, sniping is cheating because there were no lasers in WW2. But, had this been included, most players would say, "WHAT THE...?" after missing when aiming straigt at a moving target--they just wouldn't like it and this would reduce the success of the game for the sake of realism.
AFAIK, no mod has meddled with this so it's brobably not moddable--assuming the small arms rounds, like the heavy rounds, even exist in space and the hit is not just an automated trigger action as a result of aiming at the right coordinates (i.e. no bullet, just the hit).

BTW, the only thing better than being a sniper against another sniper IMO is being the assault type and having to face a sniper. It means you can't just find the guy and snipe from there, you actually have to go and frag him where he sits.

Personally, I like being the sniper just so that I can cover the other guys while they move in on a position. And since the reload time is atrociously slow (I've fired multiple rounds in succession from rifle without the convenience of a magazine--unlike the one in the game--and even then I didn't take as long to load the rounds as it does to just empty the chamber in the game!) and you have limited ammo, you have to make evey shot count, so only snipe other snipers then bazookas or just good enemy players.

When playing as a sniper in the Tobruk map in SP mode on the Axis team, I find it to be a decent challenge covering my team's advancing tanks by picking off threatening Bazookas and Engineers...just to see how far the bots can get before I have to intervene and help them. ;)

In that light, the sniper can actually be the more startegic of the player types as you have to be very selective of the course of action you take.

Most are homosexual
Where did that come from? :confused:

Oxymoron.
Granted its a game and I've seen kids playing CS and sniping guys a mile away with but the quick slide and click of the mouse but we all know these nerds wouldn't last two seconds in real combat. BF aiming isn't as clean as CS so you really do have to get a feel for the game physics to be able to get near-impossible hits (I've yet to see a mid-air snipe a la 'Enemy at the Gates' though). And hitting a good player is never easy because they will randomly change directions so you'll have trouble lining up the target (i.e. anticipating where he will go so you can aim there and wait for him); if you can do this you're as close as you're going to get to being a pro in a game like this.

Talking about mods, I downloaded the Pirates mod for it at the start of the week.
Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it?

Originally posted by Quokka:
I also like sniper because of the death animations of the victims, the head kicking back and the sack of potatoes slump to the ground ...
That was rather criptic. ;) Actually, I never liked that player death because at long ranges you can't see if the helmet's come off and they tend to stand there momentarily so you don't kno if you fragged the guy or not. If the bot's arms were to fly up and he were to fall quickly to the ground it would be clearer that you actually got him.

The only time I hate snipers is when half of my team are snipers on maps like Battleaxe or Berlin (wtf?) and when you hit TAB they have stats like 0 0 0 or even worse 0 0 11.
Berlin's not bad but Stalingrad is probably the best of the original maps for snipers. Then there are player-made maps.

Originally posted by Hakim:
Sniping will not get any flags.
Sure it will. As the sniper you eliminate the guys defending the base so that your assault players can move in and capture the base.

And hitting a good player is never easy because they will randomly change directions so you'll have trouble lining up the target (i.e. anticipating where he will go so you can aim there and wait for him); Shooting moving targets are indeed hard, I usually avoid that (except the gunners on tanks - tank drivers usually don't bother about their companions safety). Besides, if targets are able to move that much they are suitable targets for assaults and tanks. The snipers niche are the ability to pick off protected people behind a machine gun or on distance (other snipers). Berlin's not bad but Stalingrad is probably the best of the original maps for snipers. Huh? I need to try this but I've always consider those the worst possible maps for snipers, everyone is on moving foot and you might meet somebody behind every corner. Stalingrad got machine guns, but they're usually not manned. Those maps are quite small maps as well, especially Berlin. Snipers have an easier situation in large maps like Guadalcanal, Bocage etc.Sure it will. As the sniper you eliminate the guys defending the base so that your assault players can move in and capture the base.The sniper can support and are even crucial on some maps, sure, but the actual capturing are done by men on foot.

Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it?

Think Pirates of The Caribbean and you should have a fair idea. ;)

Climb into the buildings on Stalingrad. There are some that you can get into, and if you play allied, there's a ladder you can climb up that takes you to the top level of a building from which you can basically see to the spawn point on the other side of the railroad. (There are other places you can hide too.) I've had quite a bit of fun playing as a sniper against the bots on this map.

I have nothing against good snipers, you may have misunderstood me :) Although I have never actually seen a good sniper, every person that goes a sniper does bollocks. They can't pre-empt where you are going to go, you only get shot when you type or whatever. That's what makes snipers Homosexual (it's all fitting together now, eh ;))
I wouldn't mind them nearly as much if it was just 1 per team (on a 10 v 10 map), but no. A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper. This does not help at all. All they do is lie on the beach.
Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it? \/ Think Pirates of The Caribbean and you should have a fair idea.
The website is: http://www.bfpirates.com/

Some of the maps are quite bad, but the assault ones are good.

I should download it so I can run around with a cutlass, sail galleons, and sing yo ho ho while I'm at it. :D

Originally posted by Hakim:
The snipers niche are the ability to pick off protected people behind a machine gun or on distance (other snipers).
That's fine for assaulting a specific position but anybody can take out an MG. The real challenge IMO is selectively taking out the best players; I personally don't bother with the n00bs and just go for the pros. That way, it balances things out so the new guys can get a chance against players who seem to have full time jobs playing BF--nothing like seeing some smart-ass punk that does nothing but gloat about how easy it it is to frag other players and how it's just too easy to... <bang> he gets it 'tween the specks before he can say n00b.
It also serves to take out bazookas/engineers if you're covering armor, as I said before.
You can also provide a distraction, so the rest of your team can flank the enemy who's too busy scraping around on the ground in order to avoid getting sniped.
There's plenty of stuff you can do as a sniper (and with the spotting feature, it's the closest thing to being an officer--hence, the reason why everyone want to be sniper...but unfortunately, too many captains on one boat don't make for good sailing.
Those maps are quite small maps as well, especially Berlin. Snipers have an easier situation in large maps like Guadalcanal, Bocage etc.
I guess but the fun having it difficult (i.e. challenging). Stalingrad is designed for sniper fests (try playing one-on-on with another sniper and the map will be as big as you need it to be)

Originally posted by Thrawn:
I've had quite a bit of fun playing as a sniper against the bots on this map.
Yeah, but since they know where you are, there's no point to hiding and soon you'll have a ton of bots around the building you're in just waiting to take you out the moment you show your face. It's good practice to a degree but kind of defeates the whole point of the sniper type--in fact, there may sometimes be so many bot snipers that the game becomes unplayable as they frag you the moment you much as take a peek from behind the object you were hiding behind (i.e. it restricts movement to the point that you can't do anything without getting sniped as opposed to a human player who oses sight of you when you hide...hence reproducing what sniping is all about). This is really something that many games suffer from (how many times have you been picked off in CS the moment you step out a doorway by a bot with a pistol halfway across the map). CS:CZ bots don't do this--they actually have look for you.

(Of course, the terms, and 'see' and 'know' are referring to the way the program reacts to players in the 3D space that is the map. So, by 'see' it just means that the AI reacts only to players that are not blocked by objects and only to those which are within a certain area of the direction the bot is facing. Know' means that the bot does not react to other players' x,y,z coordinates in the map unless it can see them or they are spotted. This is really something that the guys at Dice should've worked on but didn't because this is a primarily MP-based game.)

Originally posted by Gainy bo:
A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper. This does not help at all. All they do is lie on the beach.
Yes, that level should actually have some mortars (I think one of the mods use this--indirect fire as opposed to direct fire so that you get a bombardment effect instead of depending on MGs to slw the Allied advance, thus no real need for snipers). Why are they all snipers? Think about it this way: it's D-day, you're Private Joe on Omaha Beach and the CO tells you to storm the bunkers right into heavy MG fire. Whiole you're pissing you pants aren't you just wishing you had a rifle w/scope so that you could take out the MGs at a distance? (Fact is, this was not necessarily done due to the fact that not every Private was a trained sniper--unlike BF where everyone gets to be a sniper...whether they know how to aim or not.
...Although maybe the reason why they lie on the beach is for medicinal purposes. ;)
Some of the maps are quite bad, but the assault ones are good.
Just out of curiosity, hwo long do muskets take to load. If it's remotely realistic, then reloading times must make for some REALLY slow action. I don't think the BF engine was designed for that much of a stretch.

Yeah, but since they know where you are, there's no point to hiding and soon you'll have a ton of bots around the building you're in just waiting to take you out the moment you show your face.

I haven't had that sort of experience. I find that I can last for quite a while, even if I stay in the same spot for longer than I probably should. I've run out of ammo and need to get more before.

Just out of curiosity, hwo long do muskets take to load. If it's remotely realistic, then reloading times must make for some REALLY slow action. I don't think the BF engine was designed for that much of a stretch.
Takes longer than any normal BF1942 weapons, but not really slow.

I haven't had that sort of experience. I find that I can last for quite a while, even if I stay in the same spot for longer than I probably should. I've run out of ammo and need to get more before.

Really? Using default BF or Realbot or whatever, I play Stalingrad as Axis, snipe from a blown-out building near the City Center base and I start out picking of every bot that runs past but soon I've got tanks and infantry sieging the building and the moment I so much as peak out, I see a rocket heading right at me--even if I duck, it hits the wall directly behind me and the splash damage usually kills me. Maybe you're just shooting from a greater distance so the bots never get that close.

And what about the bot snipers? Once they've engaged you it's all over for you unless you just high-tail it out of there or just stay down and wait for your stupid bot buddies to take him out. Bot snipers wait about a second before being able to shoot (the pre-set illusion of bot waiting for the scope to center on the target) whereas you have to wait some 3 seconds...by which time you've already been fragged.

(I can paste the wall with most average human players but even bots set to normal difficulty are impossible under certain circumstances.)

Well, I can play against the bots on hard, and have a kill/death ratio of at least 5/1, usually around 10/1. Regardless of which class I play. If I play sniper on Stalingrad, I usually go as Allies, and climb the ladder at the back of a building from which there a gaps I can snipe acroos to the other side of the railroads. I might get one or two bots at the bottom trying to shoot me, but I only really get hit if I poke my head out too far. Usually run out of ammo first.

A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper.

Omaha is one of the best maps to train as a sniper if you play the Axis. What Gainy bo says is mostly true in almost every server I play Omaha on. Usually breaks down to guys with clan tags attacking and the rest sniping.

Try going Axis and stay in one of the bunkers. I learnt to continuously move and then stop and fire quickly (hopefully) taking into account the sway of the rifle. I died alot before getting it down but you can slaughter any sniper that is in the prone position as they will get dizzy trying to track you and have no way of anticipating when you will fire. Many times they are too stupid too move even after being hit.
This method works even better in the open when you can kneel for a steadier aim and become a smaller target. Of course there has to be a bit of distance between you and the target but 90%+ of the time I will win by either killing them outright or injuring them so they have to change course for either cover or medical attention. Diverting an attacker from the flag I am guarding/they are attcking is good enough for me.
I also mostly aim for the body rather than the head unless the target is moving slow, in a straight line or is stopped. Many times the target was already injured and will die but even if they don't they are at 1/2 health and many times a teammate will finish the job shortly thereafter. No worries.

Sniping will not get any flags.

Not true. Because of their enhanced view of the map they can sometimes take advantage of situations other players can't see, such as the nearest enemy being too far away to stop a quick assault, or they can direct other teammates to avoid danger and/or alert them to enemy positions.

The real challenge IMO is selectively taking out the best players; I personally don't bother with the n00bs and just go for the pros.

I am an equal opportunity sniper, a ticket is a ticket, and on Omaha especially you have to shoot the n00bs. Give a million monkeys ...


The hardest part of sniping is adjusting for the lag on different servers. A ping of 20 is great but when it gets up to 200 the lead times can be very difficult to work out.

Bocage, Stalingrad and Battleaxe are favourites for sniping and Berlin, Iwo Jima and Battleaxe are favourites for Assault. Berlin, Bocage and Battleaxe are excellent Capture The Flag (CTF) maps.

I really hate El Alamein.

Well, I can play against the bots on hard, and have a kill/death ratio of at least 5/1, usually around 10/1.
Unlikely you'll get that ratio from medium range...but maybe. I guess I just don't have the patience to stay down until the bots either move away or are engaged by my team's bots. I certainly do take the time when playing humans though--not to mention repositioning frequently.

Omaha is one of the best maps to train as a sniper if you play the Axis.
It's hell if you play SP as the Axis though; you can move around all you want but Allied bot snipers will get you regardless, unless they engage someone else. It certainly teaches you how to aim quickly though--within the minimum time allowable by the 'auto-miss' mechanism.

I am an equal opportunity sniper, a ticket is a ticket, and on Omaha especially you have to shoot the n00bs. Give a million monkeys ...
Omaha is the exception because the point, as the Axis, is to prevent the Allies from getting to the bunkers. Of course, if they're all snipers then I go for the ones with the highest number of kills--those games are boring because by being snipers, they stay on the beach as Gainy Bo said.

I really hate El Alamein.
That map is designed for vehicle combat. Infantry only serve a support role at most. It's the best map the game has where air-ground combat is concerned--great for bombing practice. The fog is annoying when divebombing though because you can't see the target from a height so unless you calculate your course well, last minute manuevers will likely result in a miss. But when you can see them, targets are clear against the desert terrain. Starfing infantry is especially easy because they move slowly and have nowhere to hide when traveling between bases.

That map is designed for vehicle combat. Infantry only serve a support role at most

Nope. The best way to defend flags on that map is with infantry. If you get in a tank, you'll be bombed :)

This has turned into quite the BF1942 discussion btw ;)

Ah, but see the idea is to gain arial superiority (in keeping with Rommel's historical campaign). The idea behind the map design is that aircraft are too busy dog-fighting to have time to bombard ground targets. If you gain arial superiority (i.e. enemy has no aircraft in the air but you do), the map is yours because you are then able to support your tanks.

And yes, the additional role infantry play is defensive (manning AA guns, for instance, is unique to infantry).

[ double post ]

Unlikely you'll get that ratio from medium range...but maybe. I guess I just don't have the patience to stay down until the bots either move away or are engaged by my team's bots.

Usually I just get pissed off at the bots for being useless, die, switch to assault class, and go and win the map. :lol:

Usually I just get pissed off at the bots for being useless, die, switch to assault class, and go and win the map.

Bots are almost completely useless at amphibious attacks, they prefer to drive around in the damn landing craft until they get sunk by a plane or get into the destroyers but then rarely fire the guns.
I am redoing the campaign as the Allies with everything on Impossible and a 200% ratio. I am stuck at Midway as I can only die 5 times before losing but have to defeat the Japanese single handed as the others are all on the SS Minnow looking for Gilligan...
I got to within 3 tickets of winning yesterday when I was killed by a bomb from my own planes, losing as a consequence.

So have any of you tried the latest version of Desert Combat (DC_Final)? I like the way they improved the sounds and the new maps but occasionally I get severe lag which I didn't with DC 0.7.

I have to admit I've never really bothered with DC--I prefer a WW2 theme so I stick to the those mods (but I've read enough on it to know that it is widely considered to be the most solid BF mod on the net right now).

BTW, I think Dice swiped ideas from the DC mod because BF2 looks identical. ;)

Trauma Studios (the guys behind DC) have a contract with EA, and I think that they are working on BF2, so you could be right there. ;) That's why they're no longer working on DC.

That woud explain it.


Bots are almost completely useless at amphibious attacks, they prefer to drive around in the damn landing craft until they get sunk by a plane or get into the destroyers but then rarely fire the guns.
DL RealPlayer and the bots won't do that anymore. In fact, you will probably have have enough trouble just keeping them OFF the beach.

Question from a bf1942 noob:
How do bullets move? Do they have a travel time? Do they lose altitude?

Thad

Based on my playing experience, the answer would seem to be no to both. Small arms rounds seem to arrive instantaneously: This may be for the bots' sake since they might have too much trouble anticipating players' movements in order to hit them 'on arrival' so to speak. Then again, bots seem to have absolutely no trouble calculating your exact course when attacking you with Bazookas: I've frequently been hit even when zigzagging at full run.

What I was getting at earlier was that perhaps this is more for players' sake: your average player only understands 'point-and-shoot.' Time-to-arrival based on distance and maximum range (although this would rarely apply even if it did work since most maps are under a mile in width and rifle rounds usually travel farther than that) are concepts that most players aren't used to for infantry--Bazookas and heavy rounds aren't the equivilant because they travel too slowly thus far easier to calculate range-to-target/travel time.

Another thing that isn't included is wind-direction but that would really be stretching things; n00bs--considering the depth of your question, I don't think this term really applies to you--would go through games without getting a single hit.

Considering no mods I have tried do this, I think the light rounds rules of the BF engine is distinct from the rules that govern the physics behind heavy rounds.

Would make sniping far more challenging if this were added IMO but it's not meant to be a highly realistic game so that level of realism is a mute point I guess.

I doubt BF2 will take this into account based on what I've read thus far.

The DC mod is definately worth a try. The vehicules, especially the tanks, move a lot faster. That makes a different game. Also, the helicopters are an addition though they're hard to fly.
IMO bfv is more better than regular bf42. The under- and overgrowth system is a lot better, so now you can actually hide in it. The VC mines are awesome! Pity that your teammates are probably too dumb to comprehend that they need to use the 3d map... The ambient sounds are also better (not difficult, since they were practically non-existent). The 1.2 patch fixed a lot of balance issues (like the heavy weapons class carrying both the best machine gun and the best anti tank gun).
Airplanes and helicopters are easier to fly than in bf42. And you can use your own weapons in some vehicule seats, which makes for awesome team play (1 driver, 1 using the mounted grenade launcher, and a M60 or sniper in the right front seat).

It's impossible to buy BF42 here these days, since it's sold together with the expansion packs for 45 euros. BFV is actually cheaper than that. If you could buy BF42 for the price that a 2 year old game would be actually worth (10 euros or so), definately go for BF42.

The choppers in dc are better to fly once you get used to it. I just found them to be more responsive than the BF:v ones. There's some good guides on planetbattlefield.com if you want to learn how to fly them. :)

I have no joystick, that's the problem.

It's not a problem. I can fly the choppers fairly well with the keyboard. It just takes practice and an understanding of how they work. :) Using a joystick wouldn't make it much easier from my experience.

If you already have BF1942, BFV is like buying a mod for the price of a game. Not worth it IMO...but perhaps in the MP game it make a difference.