Civs Discussion

[NikNaks]

Here is a list of all the civilizations planned to be included. They are up for comment and discussion.

United States of America - controls Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Panama, Diego Garcia (Indian ocean), Pacific Islands (Midway, Guam, Marshal Islands, Samoa, etc), Iraq, Afghanistan.
Canada
Mexico
China
North Korea
Russia
Kazakhstan
Israel
Palestine (gaza strip + west bank).
Egypt
Iran - controls Syria.
South Korea
Nigeria
Pakistan
India
Venezuela - controls Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Paraguay.
Colombia
Brazil
Argentina
Myanmar
Japan
Australia
Philippines
Republic of Indonesia
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
South Africa
Taiwan
European Union - Euro nations.
Permanent Neutrality - Switzerland (capital), Costa Rica, Liechtenstein Turkmenistan.
NATO (non-EU) - UK (capital)*, Turkey, Iceland, Norway, Croatia, Albania.
Independent African States - Angola (capital), Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Zimbabwe, Kenya.
African Union- all African countries that don't fall in to our "independent" or "barbarian" groups.
Failed States - Somalia, Eritrea, East Timor, Equatorial Guinea. There should also be strong hostile barbarian rebel cities in Iraq, Afghanistan, and western Sudan. Weaker barbarian groups elsewhere, maybe without cities, including in Columbia, Chechnya (Russia), Mexico, Algeria, Basque (EU) and Tibet (China).
Independent Nations - Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Singapore, Dominican republic, Peru, Chile, Vietnam

*The UK has been selected as a non-EU NATO country because of its alignment in international politics and its geographical location.

 

[NikNaks]

More details on the barbarians:

Failed States - Will build military units; Always at war; Likely to attack
Permanent Neutrality - Cannot build military units (other than basic defenses); Cannot declare war; If war is declared on them, all bordering civs declare war on the attacker (unless they have alliances with the attacker)
Peaceful Nations - Can build military units; Can (but very unlikely to) attack others; If attacked, nothing really happens

 

[Bahmo]

Have we decided yet whether Kazkhstan is united with Mongolia and the other Former Soviet Socialist Republic Stans?

 

[lamppost4]

I'm glad to see that Taiwan is on the list.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I think Oceanic islands(excluding American ones, Indonesia and maybe Papua new Guinea) should be owned by Australia.

Also i don't think it would be much of a problem to include a SE Asia union.

Good luck on the mod!

 

[Kao'chai]

rebels in tibet?

 

[Amogos]

I think that Spain, France and Germany can be there own nations because Europe has never been united, other than the Roman Empire, and it doesn’t make sense for them to be under one rule. Portugal, Italy, Greece, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Iceland, Poland and all other small nations should be NATO; I don’t know the politics so there could be more. Scandinavia can be one group or something. There should also be a bunch of can’t contact barbarian groups in Africa that only think "kill neighbor and don’t die my self". There should also be some way (for us future dictators ) to separate a nation into barbarian groups: for example Russia attacks the USA and the US falls apart and becomes a barbarian state based on the actual states geography (suposedly ).

 

[NikNaks]

Have we decided yet whether Kazkhstan is united with Mongolia and the other Former Soviet Socialist Republic Stans?

I think we decided against it, but I'm not too sure.

I'm glad to see that Taiwan is on the list.

Well, it's an area of international interest, so it has to be

I think Oceanic islands(excluding American ones, Indonesia and maybe Papua new Guinea) should be owned by Australia.

I agree. I'm not sure how the map is going to look, but if there are cities in the Pacific they'll be either Australian or NATO controlled.

Also i don't think it would be much of a problem to include a SE Asia union.

If not sure if we ever considered ASEAN. It might be a good idea to cut down on some civs.

Good luck on the mod!

rebels in tibet?

Yes, it's down as a failed state. It's not particularly stable, is it?

I think that Spain, France and Germany can be there own nations because Europe has never been united, other than the Roman Empire, and it doesn’t make sense for them to be under one rule. Portugal, Italy, Greece, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Iceland, Poland and all other small nations should be NATO; I don’t know the politics so there could be more. Scandinavia can be one group or something.

I completely disagree on two points:
1) We need to cut down on the number of civs
2) Western Europe is more or less one country now. If you've ever been in recent times, you'll know that international border controls on the mainland are practically non-existent, and people consider themselves European almost as strongly as their national identity.

There should also be a bunch of can’t contact barbarian groups in Africa that only think "kill neighbor and don’t die my self".

What do you mean there?

There should also be some way (for us future dictators ) to separate a nation into barbarian groups: for example Russia attacks the USA and the US falls apart and becomes a barbarian state based on the actual states geography (supposedly ).

That's interesting, but I'm not sure if that would be totally realistic. There'd probably be unrest and certain amounts of instability, but making the entire country into a Barbarian State is a tad OTT in my opinion.

Thanks for your comments, keep them coming

 

[Amogos]

Like I said I don't know the politics but at least let there be two nations: West and East Europe so there’s the possibility of war between European countries. And to clarify; if a nation is to stable (US) and are attacked (Russia) stability will instantly drop because of the fear and confusion. Also in Africa duo to the amount of countries on Earth and the number that are getting in the game I think places like Uganda should be barbarian but will attack other barbarians so they don't team up were they should make war in reality.

 

[ianinsane]

2) Western Europe is more or less one country now. If you've ever been in recent times, you'll know that international border controls on the mainland are practically non-existent, and people consider themselves European almost as strongly as their national identity.

I wish it was like that. But nevertheless I totally agree that we have to cut down the number of civs. And we can be sure that in the future years the developement will be more and more towards what NikNaks93 described.
The only alternative for us would be to merge Western Europe into one NATO civ. And I think that people here have been feeling more like EU citizens than NATO citizens since the Cold War ended. So that would be absolutely no option.

Like I said I don't know the politics but at least let there be two nations: West and East Europe so there’s the possibility of war between European countries.

I guess that was be achieved by including Russia. So there could be a war (why is always everything about war? *sigh* ) between Russia, which controls countries like Belorussia and Ukraine, and EU and/or NATO...

 

[Joe Harker]

Permanent Neutrality - Switzerland (capital), Costa Rica, Liechtenstein Turkmenistan.

Oh thank god Liechenstein isn't going to declare war on me! (Can you even get them on the map! )

Diego Garcia (Indian ocean),

Isn't that British?, or is it British but is lent to the US due to lend lease in WW2

Maybe, big maybe but you could put Canada under either Nato or US if you are desperatly trying to cut down on civs, and Give the Gaza Strip to Eygpt and West Bank to whoever controls Jordan, but only if you are looking to cut down civs, otherwise the list is fine , and good luck, look forward to playing it

 

[Mr Historical]

Could you possibly use the UK as a seperate nation,and put the smaller nations into US or EU- it might seem slightly bizarre that the uk controls bits of eastern europe
And just to add my voice to the debate on the eu,I would say that while internally,they appear the same,france and germany take entirely different foriegn policies,Also,93% europeans still regarded themselves as french/german/polish whatever compared to7% as european first.Single european nations or at least france + germany have much more effect on world affairs than say,vietnam or the sudan.

 

[Arwon]

On the Pacific region: I'd indeed give America Guam, American Samoa (not Samoa the independent country), the Marshall Islands and Micronesia to the USA, but not much more than that... the South Pacific is much more associated with Australia and New Zealand.

Likely islands to put under Australian control would be the Solomon Islands, Fiji, Tonga and Vanuatu. We have defence agreements, we train most of their forces, give them a lot of aid, and occasionaly send police or troops to those countries to help stabilise them. Likewise, further into the Pacific, Tuvalu and Kiribati have no military except that provided by Australia or NZ, and they use our currency as well.

Maybe East Timor would also be Australian, given our prominent role in their independence and ongoing heavy involvement in attempting to stabilise the place.

I'd potentially even group PNG with Australia, after being a colonial protectorate of Australia, PNG only became independent in 1975 and we're still involved in aid and education and military training in PNG. Plus PNG and Timor Leste would give borders with Indonesia.

One caveat on this: relations with Fiji are very strained since the coup in 2006. Not sure how you'd represent that. Possibly they'd be a failed state or independent.

Also, don't forget France still has New Caledonia and French Polynesia (Tahiti) in the Pacific.

Finally, what's happening with New Zealand? They may be a candidate for neutrality, these days. Give New Zealand control of Samoa and the Cook Islands if you include them. There's also Tokelau and Niue, but they've got like 1000 people and no ports or anything like that.

 

[ianinsane]

Good thoughts on that!

 

[sangeli]

Suggestions:

Lebenon should also be a "failed state" as civil war seems probable.

Altough, both islam, Shia and Sunni should be different religions in the game due to how much conflict has been between them.

Maybe align the pro-russian Serbia with Russia. Also, Poland should definitely, 100%, be part of NATO and not EU. And technically, this is a 2008 mod so Albania and Croatia should not be part of NATO, because they join next year. So, if you are going to keep them part of NATO, with that rationale, Barak Obama should also be the US leader

 

[Mr Historical]

I mean ,france,the uk and germany are much more powerful politically than say burma,canada or taiwan-so maybe enlarge germanyto include eastern EU nations,france to include spain and italy and make turkey a 'secular middle eastern civ'.Albania +croatia dont really need to be mentioned at all,or maybe just as independants.Add taiwan +south koreato america,burma +sudan as failed states and we might have a balance-

 

[Mr Historical]

Permanent Neutrality - Switzerland (capital), Costa Rica, Liechtenstein Turkmenistan.
what about sweden

 

[NikNaks]

Sweden are EU members, aren't they?

 

[Mr Historical]

Yes,swedens part of the EU but is 'aggressively neutral with national service-more like switzerland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Armed_Forces
'Sweden aims to have the option of remaining neutral in case of proximate war, and is therefore not a formal member of NATO or any other military alliance.'
but you can put them in if you want-im just being pedantic

 

[NikNaks]

I think we'll leave them where they are for now.

What's everyone's opinion on including UNASUR instead of the individual SA countries?