How would you set up ships to 'scout' when the AI hasn't declared yet against you?
I understood the original message to be about a case where you already suspected that an attack was coming, and had then decided to declare war on the AI, and also had a bit of a navy set up to intercept them:
nfw said:
the Maya or the Inca just came at me with a 12 strong invasion fleet, even though I declared on them a couple galleons still made through.
But, you have asked a really great question! How do you scout when the AI has yet to declare war on you?
Farm Boy makes a good point on the matter:
Farm Boy said:
so that you know when an AI enters WHEOOHRN mode
However, you don't necessarily have to have BUG, as long as you talk to each of the AIs regularly and hover your mouse over another Leader's name that they could potentially be asked to declare war on. That's the other way of finding out if an AI is planning a war.
Other situations where you can anticipate being declared war on are:
- You have recently refused a demand from an AI
- You have recently gotten into a war with a different AI who has good a good relationship with an AI that hates you (i.e. the first AI that you are at war with can bribe the other AI into the war against you)
- You have recently cancelled trading with an AI thanks to accepting a request to do so from a different AI
- You have recently switched Civics away from a Favourite Civic of an AI
- You have recently switched Religions away from a Religion that you share with an AI
The first two situations are the most likely to be "instantaneous" war declarations out of the bunch, while the other factors might take some time before you get attacked.
So, keeping an eye out for an AI that has "too much on their hands" and also dislikes you, or for any AI that hates you, especially if you give them a good reason (see my list above for some possible reasons), could be someone whose boats you will want to "scout" for.
If you know the relative placement of their island/continent compared to yours, simply station a a boat like a Caravel between your island/continent and theirs. The AI will send their ships in a straight line towrds their target, so you can count on this fact greatly in figuring out "where" to scout.
You can set them to trigger on when a enemy units comes near, but if the AI hasn't declared, they are not an enemy unit yet.
Annoying as it may sound, if you suspect that an AI is going to attack you and you have placed a "scout" ship, then to me, anyway, scouting means NOT putting the ship on Sentry mode. To me, it means Skipping its Turn each and every turn (pressing the Spacebar). It's a bit annoying, but if you're going to the trouble of scouting for a fleet from an AI that you suspect may be declaring war you on, it will be a limited amount of game turns that you will be performing this scouting action, so I'd say that having to manually end the scouting boat or scouting boats' turns manually is a small price to pay for the information that you gain.
IN FACT, if you have a limited number of scouting boats that don't cover a wide view of the ocean, then it can be worth your while to manually patrol your scouting boat back and forth each turn, using up all of its movement points. I would send it its full movement points in one direction on one turn, then back the same way that it came on the next turn. Presumably, you'd send it in a direction perpendicular to the expected attack vector or vectors from some of the AI's Cities and your Cities.
hoplite-1 said:
Personally I think intercepting the AI's ships is a bad idea...
- Your navy often has to operate outside of your borders, making it expensive in upkeep
What's great about figuring out who your future enemy or enemies might be by monitoring diplomacy is that you only need a few scouting boats outside of your territory.
And, you don't even necessarily NEED to intercept the enemy AI's navy.
However, having that extra turn or two of knowledge of when the AI's boats are coming and approximately on which vector (in which direction they are travelling), you will buy yourself an extra turn or two to whip and/or draft land-based units and to move existing and new land-based units into position.
So, performing the diplomatic analysis and the relevant scouting-boat placement actions do not REQUIRE you to intercept the enemy ships, but they give you the flexibility to do so if you have a defensive navy, while also giving you time to muster your ground troops. You should plan to muster your ground troops even if you do have a strong navy, as often evenly-matched ships can lose battles that you were planning on winning.
In essence, you'll save on land-based unit costs until they are needed, but will also have time to whip or draft or move them into position in time if you do perform some scouting with a few boats.
hoplite-1 said:
- He's fighting a defensive war, and by using ships he sacrifices the huge amounts of defensive bonuses he would get from garrisoning cities, such as walls/castle, terrain bonuses, unit upgrades/abilities, etc
As far as I understand it, we're talking about declaring war on an AI that has already committed a good portion of its navy and ground troops into a stack of boats that are headed your way.
So, I am not sure that I see the difference in terms of the number of troops that an AI will field if they declare war on you on the turn that they land units in your territory versus you declaring war on them one or two turns earlier, to try and "pick off" some of their invading navy before it can reach your shores.
Certainly, if you want to be able to have a good chance at getting a good diplomatic relationship with the AI that is "coming to get you" after the war, as well as keeping good diplomatic relationships with the AIs that are Pleased or Friendly with the aggressor, then allowing the AI to declare war can "save you face" in terms of international diplomacy. And that consideration is certainly a strong one to favour (letting the AI declare war so that he/she drags their name through the mud, instead of you dragging your good name through the mud), especially if you think that you will be able to muster sufficient ground forces to be able to beat off the attack, or to at most lost 1 City.
Expect that the City will get razed, though, and then you'll feel happy if it didn't get razed, instead of feeling unhappy and disappointed when it does happen.
hoplite-1 said:
The AI usually targets the same city and lands their units in a big lump making them vulnerable to artillery
That fact is really good to keep in mind for future attack waves or future war declarations from the same aggressor. However, often you won't know where that City will be until after the first war is declared. Having a few scouting boats between you and the potential aggressor can help, but it is also hard to tell the exact vector of any invading ships that you DO manage to spot unless you turn on the "Show Friendly Moves" game option, which may not be practical if you have visibility of many different AIs' units, as the game would just slow down too much in order to have to watch them all.
To counter this tedium, you can have two scouting boats along an expected attack vector, one being about 5 squares closer to the AI than the other boat, so that you'll see the AI naval stack's final position after two turns. Using that info, you can extrapolate their attack vector and get a pretty strong idea about which of your Cities they are gunning for.