GOTM 153 Zululand Emperor Domination - 1st Spoiler - End of ancient times

Più Freddo

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This thread is for your reports of events and progress in the GOTM 153 Zululand Emperor Domination game up to the date where you are able to research a Medieval tech.

Do not read or post in this thread until you meet this condition. You may reveal Medieval bonus techs from the end of the last Ancient turn and discuss your plans for continuing the game.

Please do not post information here relating to later dates, and please only post maps of your home area and no minimaps.

The little change to this game should have made quite some impact, I reckon. How did it play out? Did any Scout survive long? Were your cities ravaged? Could you use the Barbarian Impis to train elite troops?
 
4000BC Scout E-SE, spot 3 game tiles and BG. 4-turner is a possible.
Worker NE, Settler SE.
3950BC Found Zimbabwe. Alphabet max.
3850BC Meet Koreans. Trade for Alphabet. Min run Writing.
3650BC Hut gives CB.
3500BC Hut gives 25gp.
3350BC Meet English.
3250BC Trade for BW.
3000BC Hut gives Mysticism. Trade for the Wheel.
2900BC Meet French. Trade for Masonry.
2590BC Meet Indians.
2550BC Barbs kill a scout.
2430BC Trade for IW. Hut Gives HBR. Trade for Writing. Meet Vikings. Meet Russians.
2390BC Barbs kill a scout. First settler of capital.
2270BC Found Ulundi.
2150BC Wines connected.
2030BC Found Bapedi.
1910BC Found Hlobane.
1750BC Barbs kill the last scout. Found Isandhlwana.
1625BC Found Intombe.
1575BC CoL.
1525BC Found Mpondo.
1425BC Trade for Philosophy, MM.
1400BC Found Ngome.
1325BC Found Swazi.
1300BC Connect Horses.
1225BC Found Tugela.
1125BC Found Umtata.
1100BC Russiand DoW us.

610BC Enter the MA. Soon war against the Koreans.

QSC stats:
11 Towns, 25 pops
2 Settlers, 10 Workers, 2 Impis.
2 Granaries, 4 Barracks.
284gp, No Maths, Literature, Polytheism. The Republic in 11 turns.

 

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After scout S-E, i spotted the 4-turner and decided to settle in place. The initial build order was settler -> granary -> worker, then settlers all the way up to MA and beyond. City 2 was founded S-SEx2, to exploit the game and the wine tiles, and struggled to train the bare minimum amount of warriors necessary. For a mere one turn, i could defend my lone worker to an incoming fast barb - in this regard, the game creator needs to be tarred and feathered :p

Subsequent cities were built at RCP 3 from the capital and, later on, a partial RCP 7 was also built. I say "partial" because Korea built no less than 3 of their settlements at RCP 7 from my capital, a perfect recipe for earning the top spot in my kill list. In later times, Korea furtherly reinforced its position by completing the Pyramids in Seoul :D

At the beginning, the scout went W, then N, popping gold from a hut, then eastward, fishing a Cuman conscript from a 2nd hut just before meeting the Koreans. I got knowledge of 4 tribes very early, and met two more of them after Writing was known. Just one AS remained uncontacted, and at the dawn of Middle Ages nobody still knew them. By venturing further east, the scout stepped onto another hut, and a Kassite worker was found. It was quite far away from home, and with those pesky barbs around its safety was in jeopardy, so i sent the Cuman warrior, who in the meantime has ascended to regular status with a successful defense, to meet it half-way and then escort it back through the mountains. The unusual duo made it back and, over the following centuries, the local bards could entertain the general public with the story of the Cuman warrior and the Kassite worker surviving a long and perilous journey back to the homeland :D

Research was set to Alpha at max, bought half-way from the Koreans, followed by Writing at max - maybe a min run was better, it took 31 turns and someone else completed it at the same turn as mine, but i could still buy the remaining contacts and all the known techs. Then, with CoL given in 24 turns, i thought i could have better chances with Philosophy. It worked... in part, in the sense that nobody went for Philo, but nobody went for CoL as well, so i had to start on it myself, and i could finally buy it only 3 turns before completing. The good news are that i got Poly and MM as well and, a few turns later, Math too. Next target was Republic.

The 1000 BC mark was reached with the following stats:
12 towns, 29 pop units;
army: 1 galley, 2 impis, 2 horses, 10 wars, 9 workers, 1 slave, 1 scout;
buildings: 1 granary, 1 temple, 4 barracks
90 quids, +22 gpt;
Know all the AS minus one
Missing Const, Curr and the optionals; 1 turn to Republic

Next turn, Republic was researched. I revolted immediately, fished 4 turns of anarchy and decided not to reroll. In 900 BC the Zulu Republic was established. I kept Republic for myself, with the intention of trading it for the scientific freebies, and went for Construction at max. In the meantime, Literature, Monarchy and Currency popped up somewhere. Alas, for when Construction was completed, in 730 BC, Republic wasn't a monopoly anymore, so i could trade my way into the MA and also obtain the two optionals, but the scientific freebies (Monotheism from Korea and Feudalism from Russia) were totally out of question.

However, they might still trade each other, and by consequence give knowledge to England which has the Great Library. In that case, buying them with a half-known Monarchy wouldn't look unrealistic. Plus, there's still the unsolved matter of the unknown AS. I hoped to meet them in time to use their contact, and possible their freebie, as a bargaining chip, but it wasn't to be.

Mono and Feud are of particular relevance because with them you're just one research away from Chivalry. At first i thought i'd rather take over a large part of the mainland with a horseman swarm, but with a tech pace so fast getting knights actually makes a lot of sense, also because, in the immediate, i'll be busy dealing with barbarian horseman swarms coming from at least two camps in the unsettled far west. In any case, Korea will be my first victim, for the aforementioned reasons.

Here are some logs:


Techs:

4000bc: Warrior Code, Pottery (prerequisites);
3550bc: Alphabet (trade, Korea);
3250bc: Ceremonial Burial (trade, India);
3150bc: Bronze Working (trade, India);
2150bc: Writing (research); Iron Working, Mysticism, Wheel (trade, Korea); Masonry (trade, England);
2030bc: Horse Riding (hut)
1725bc: Philosophy (research);
1550bc: Code of Laws (trade, Russia, 3 turns);
1500bc: Polytheism (trade, Russia); Map Making (trade, England);
1300bc: Mathematics (trade, Korea);
_975bc: Republic (research);
_730bc: Construction (research); Currency (trade, Korea); Monarchy (trade, France); Literature (trade, Scandinavia);


Cities up to QSC:

4000bc: Zimbabwe
3100bc: Ulundi (wines)
1950bc: Bapedi
1750bc: Hlobane
1650bc: Isandhlwana

1525bc: Intombe
1400bc: Mpondo (iron, incense)
1350bc: Ngome (horses);
1275bc: Swazi
1150bc: Tugela

1050bc: Umtata
1000bc: Umfolozi


Contacts:

3550bc: Korea
3250bc: India
3200bc: England
3150bc: France
2150bc: Scandinavia, Russia


And here's a shot of my empire in 1000 BC:

 

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Problem:
I ran into the Great Wall Bug. :(
The only ways to get around it would severely harm my game progress:

  1. Disband Paris, which built the Great Wall. But Paris also built the Pyramids!
  2. Disband the two towns which are currently threatened by barbs. One would be ok, but the other one is an important link in my supply line towards the next front. Troops would need two extra turns to reach the front until I have managed to re-establish the road-link at that point!
Does anyone know another way to get around the bug? (I can send the current .sav file to an admin, if necessary.)
 
I can try, but I think the defender finishes only after the barbarian turn?!

Edit: as I thought: the barbs move before the unit finishes.
 
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I can try, but I think the defender finishes only after the barbarian turn?!

Edit: as I thought: the barbs move before the unit finishes.

Yes, it does. You should reload the turn before and take measures to stop barbs from pillaging the endangered cities. Or, if you feel OK with it, disband them. There's no way to prevent the bug from occurring, other than avoiding its cause. And, although rules forbid reloading a prior turn, my opinion is that in such a case we shouldn't mind. Personally i don't, and if there are no objections that's what i would recommend to do.
 
So basically I have two options:
  • Take the current turn I have (I had saved my last session at the end of my turn, without pressing Enter), disband the two threatened towns and then continue.
  • Go back to the previous auto-save, replay that turn as identical as possible, except for rushing two pikes in those towns. (If I have enough gold for that, that is...) Then replay the current turn as identical as possible (the gold will of course be missing... :()
I'll check out the second option tonight and then decide, which one causes the least harm...
(But if the RNG gods are against me, one of the barbs is going to defeat the defender :p, and then I'm back at square one... :D)
Oh, I would simply disband the Great Wall town, but the Pyramids are simply too precious to let them go as well... :(
 
Well this game turns to be my hardest civ3 challenge ever. It is bc 510 now and my brave, but puny-n-tiny Zulu country still struggles very hard merely for existence.



Each turn looks like first Panzer General now ))
And plays as long too ((

== very short log with only key points ==
4000 bc, settle at place.
In 3550 first sign of future ordeals appears: freshly borned citizen died from disease.
In 2750 first undefended settler was killed by b'impi appeared from nowhere. N(ice)asty surprise from map author indeed!
Only in 2070 I was able to found my second city. Barbs continue to bind me hard - screenshot at bc 1600:



In 1575 Kor found city on near S, in my core territory near wines. But next turn I have seen b'imp disappearing into that city - so it has no defenders! After short doubts, I DoWed Kor (my entire mil was 1ewar & 3rimp) and destroy it. Two turns later Kor arc died on my scirmishing imp, so in bc 1450 I got GA with 3 towns with total 5 or 6 citizens )).
In 1325 most farthest civ - Rus - demanded tribute and DoWed after my denial. My impis do great job by pillaging Kor land, and in 1275 Kor agrees to give tech in exc for small fee for peace. In same year tech parity with all AIs acquired via trade (feels like cheat every game except deity).
In 1000 bc I got a most humble QSC stats ever:
5twn, 13pop, 1stl, 3wrk, 1war,1arc,10imp 15tch, 1brc2grn $=350
In 975 Vik DoWed us just like Rus before, in following two turns they bringed Kor & Ind into war.
In 610 first barb uprising happens on turn before of founding new city. My entire west becomes a very hot place since.
In 590 Rus buyed Eng to anti-Zul alliance, they lose a 11x14gpt deal.
At this point only Fra was peaceful, and agree to sell Pol, last AA tech, for just 10gpt.
3AIs gets Rep+Feu, my nearest goal now is Mon at full speed.
In 510 luck suddenly shines upon Zululand: first leader was born while city defending, after quite few elite wins. But he seems quite useless now - all AA wonders already built. Probably only option is to trade Feu fast (before Fra jumps to war too) and rush STz.
 

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Read the spoiler of COTM48, especially about the "Party Town" approach to deal with barbs. Looks like that was your main mistake here: trying to fight the barbarians, when there were still other priorities (like setting up a decent core). Also, why is Zimbabwe still size 2 in 1600 BC and making no production to speak of (1spt)? By that time it should be operating at size 6-7, granary already finished and spitting out 4-turn settlers!
General rule of thumb: never let your capital fall below size 5! It's your most productive town for many centuries.

As a consequence, your empire was still too small, when the medieval barb uprising came, and was even more damaged by the uprising.
 
Your words is right only for normal barbarians (& for slightly more progressed civ) But these simply don't allow me to EXPAND properly. They just fortified on that 2cow spot and killed one from two of my warriors (entire military at that time) which try to hold position for upcoming settler. Settler position what you see on small screenshot was already an achievement.

===
For those who interested I post my early saves & corresponding log. Try to do better if you can ;)

Spoiler :
Code:
-> 0:50 17.10.2016 { 4000 BC }

bc 3600 pop2, (3/1)
wrk [1ne], to I+R fp
set 7-2-1 +4gpt
bc 3550 pop1 due disease // cool.
#1 hut on W - map, spot 2fpwht and cattle near Zimbabwe
bc 3400 #2 hut on W shore - learn CBr, sct turns back to E
bc 3250 2cattle to near W - location for 2nd city
pop2, (4/1), eta 5/9 // pray to RNG gods for no more diseases!!
bc 3200 wrk to game, to C+I+R
bc 3050 #3 hut on S - warr // my first mil unit
bc 3000 pop3, set 6-2-2
bc 2950 prod 1st stl, next gran (3/1)
bc 2850 #4 hut on S by warr - maps (useless)
meet Kor on near E by sct, 3cty, Alp,BrW, prices unnaceptable
bc 2750 {s} stl destroyed by barb's Impi... // so is it that promised surprise from Piu Freddo? khm...
change prod to warr (2t)
bc 2670 pop2, warr prod, forest cutted, 10s wasted :( // anyway this game already broken
warr to W, next warr, (4/1) set 7-2-1
bc 2510 meet rus warr by sct on NE
Rus: 3cty, Mas,BrW,Whl // can buy BrW but it is useless now, I NEED THAT COWS CITY FIRST!
2470 pop3, set 7-1-2
rwar fortified near that impis camp on W
2390 wrk [1s] to R
2310 sct is killed
Zimbabwe rioting
set 6-1-3
2230 fortified rwar killed by b'impi without losses :(
// so second arriving conscript "reinforcement" can commit suicide by now.
// no, it prefer turns back to Zimbabwe garrison. what an optimistic fool!
wrk [1s1se] to M+R
2190 pop4
2150 stl prod, move to E, next Imp
give Kor Pot+CBr+$10 for BrW
set 9-1-0 Wri 1/40t +5gpt
2070 {s} found Ulundi [3e] (2/2) prod imp // RCP4 was planned early; both AIs have 4cty by now
1990 {s} pop3, set 8-1-1 +7gpt
== 2 towns, 4pop, 1wrk, 1war, 5tch, $=180 == // most humble bc2k stat ever!
1910 prod imp, go W to b'camp, next stl
wrk to wine, to R
1790 contact by Vik,Eng, both have 5cty, all AIs techs +Wri
both trying to sell Mas for $80
give Vik $55 for comm_Fra - 5cty, but tech backwards, without CBr+Pot!!
give Kor comm-Fra+$10 for comm_Ind - 3cty, little tech backwards
give Fra comm-Ind+Pot+Cbr+$75 for Wri+Mas // thank you Jo!
give Ind Wri+4gpt for IrW+Whe
sell Fra IrW for $80
$=156 +4gpt // not bad.
set 8-1-1 Lit 1/40t
1750 set 6-1-3 because cwar leaves Zimb to protect Ulundi from N b'imp
1700 cwar promoted in Ulundi! // first good news )
Zimb prod stl, next gran,
Ulundi prod imp, next imp
wrk [1sw] to C+R
1650 // 3b'imp stacked behind river! :o
1600 {p} // oh sh*t, these b'impis everythere now!!!
// decide to go little boldly:
found Bapedi [1w3sw] (2cows)
western imp goto Bapedi, second goto [1s1sw] plains to protect wrk
on eastern side do nothing (nothing possible, hope they not go to pillage)
1575 war defending Ulundi promoted to elite!
Kor found city on near S, in my core, on my wines :(
1550 {s} Ulundi prod 3rd imp, next barr
See how barbs raid into that Kor city... so i can take it too.
// Kor have 7cty now...
!DoW Kor! // my mil is 1ewar & 3rimp :))
destroy 1p horsehockey Chiu (it even don't fit to my RCP!)
1450 Kor arc died on my impi at Pyongyang, so
== Golden Age == // with 3 puny towns, heh )))
 

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That early spell of Disease was of course catastrophic. I'm sorry about that. I've tried to turn off Disease by setting the flag "cancels disease" on Pottery in the editor, but it doesn't work. We should try not to have Flood Plains or Jungles close to the starting location.
 
I received the same disease catastrophe early on delaying the first settler, followed by a Barb Impi killing my worker at about turn 6 or 7 on the edge of the bfc. Why the Barb Impi turned away from an undefended city, I don't know. The loss of another citizen would have delayed the first settler even further. At about the same time a Barb Impi came out of the fog to kill my scout after popping only his second hut.

War with Korea had to come way too early due to the delay getting settlers out and Korea's insistence on sending his settlers toward Zimbabwe at RCP4. As a result my golden age came far too early.

If we want to change standard traits then perhaps a little better description would help. It does make the game more interesting, and the presence of Barb Impis certainly changed the early game.

Going back and checking via Civassist II, the save I have closest to 1000BC is 950bc and it shows 8 cities, 96 land, 18 citizens and 20 units and a score of 246, culture of 144, 2 turns left of my GA, and 97 gold. I know Math and no one else does with the exception of the Vikings., However Korea and Scandinavia both know Philo, CoL, and MM. Russia knows CoL, MM, and Poly. France is even with me, minus Math, England knows CoL and MM, while India only knows MM.

Later on I considered building the Great Wall but knew there was a good chance the enhanced barbs could pillage a city and cause the TGW crash, so I decided against it. Later on I was the first to make contact with the remaining AI but it was just about worthless.
 
About GtW - if it so buggy, can we revert it back to standart effect? Imho double strength vs barbs not so worthless on higher skill levels.
 
Your words is right only for normal barbarians (& for slightly more progressed civ) But these simply don't allow me to EXPAND properly. They just fortified on that 2cow spot and killed one from two of my warriors (entire military at that time) which try to hold position for upcoming settler. Settler position what you see on small screenshot was already an achievement.

There is no difference with "normal" barbarians: If a barbarian has two choices, a) a settler protected by a warrior and b) an empty town, it will always go for the "easier" target and choose the town. In any case, it worked ok for me and apparently also for Kuningas and tR1cKy. As far as I can tell from the screenshots, at 1000BC Kuningas had 27 pop, tR1cKy had 29 pop, and I had 28 pop. (Counting settlers as 1pop, neglecting workers.) You had 14 pop at the same time. Also note, in 510BC you still have 18 turns to go to Monarchy, while I had already become a Republic in 710 BC. (Which means less corruption, more food, more commerce and more everything.) Even if we did not lose one citizen to floodplain disease and one settler to barbs, there must have been more things going wrong in your game. And after seeing the 1600BC screenshot, I think I know what it was: you did not make the most out of your capital. By constantly building settlers too early, you lost about 50% of your potential shields and commerce turn after turn for centuries! Instead of having the commerce and shields of 5-7 citizens available every turn, you only had the commerce and shields of 2-4 citizens. Add this up over 80 turns, and it will amount to a huge difference! As a direct consequence of that,
  1. research was too slow, so you stayed in Despotism too long (which increases this disadvantage even more!)
  2. your expansion was too slow (my 4-turn settler factory in the capital became operational in 2190BC, while you still didn't even have a granary in 1600BC!! My build order in the capital was something like scout, 3 x warrior, worker, granary, worker, followed by 4-turn settlers up to 1150BC, then a library, then again 4-turn settlers until it was time to prepare for the GA)
  3. production was low, resulting in a weak military
  4. and as a consequence of 3, the AI viewed you as "weak" and dowed on you too early, making things even worse...
Zulu empire in 1000BC:
gotm153_1000BC.png



Code:
== Golden Age == // with 3 puny towns, heh )))
And this is another grave mistake. (But I guess it was a sad necessity, just to survive?!) I had built only 1-2 Impis as settler-escorts and made sure to not use them in combat against non-barbarian units, until my first ring (capital + 6 cities at RCP4) was complete at size 12 (and I also had rushed the Forbidden Palace in Seoul and had gotten Seoul and 2-3 cities close by up to speed, but that depended on Leader-luck, so cannot really be planned for). For that reason, my first early wars against Korea (to secure a nice place for the FP) and France (to capture the Pyramids in Paris) had been done solely with a few swordsmen (upgraded military police warriors) and then mainly horsemen, but no Impis!
 
By constantly building settlers too early, you lost about 50% of your potential shields and commerce turn after turn for centuries!
My initial plan was to build first settler ASAP for that 2cow spot, which should allow me to catch up expansion tempo later. May be it was wrong strat (because I consider 4t hardly possible for starting point), but certainly not blind. And so, that settler lost is the main cause of followed consequences.
If a barbarian has two choices, a) a settler protected by a warrior and b) an empty town, it will always go for the "easier" target and choose the town
Really? Guess what does two eastern barbs from that 1600 screen? They both attack defended Ulundi (upper - first!), not go for undefended capital or pillage.
 
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Well, Zimbabwe is three turns away, so that's clear. Barbarians look NE, clockwise around, NE again and clockwise around again and select the easiest target along this path. Apparently, attacking a city is considered better than pillaging.
 
My initial plan was to build first settler ASAP for that 2cow spot, which should allow me to catch up expansion tempo later. May be it was wrong strat (because I consider 4t hardly possible for starting point), but certainly not blind.
I considered that as well, but then decided against it for the following reason: those cow tiles are just ordinary 2/1/1 tiles at the moment. It will take very long, before they can be irrigated and roaded. (Worker power is urgently needed for the capital.) So going for early granary first and keeping the population inside the capital (where they have plenty of 2/1/2 and even 2/2/2 tiles) is definitely stronger. Also I realized that the deer tile allows a 4-turner, and I did not want to delay my 4-turner by spiting out an early settler (which is already half the granary plus it shrinks the capital prematurely).

Really? Guess what does two eastern barbs from that 1600 screen? They both attack defended Ulundi (upper - first!), not go for undefended capital or pillage.
I mean two choices within reach. The undefended capital is not within reach, so the barbs don't consider it as a choice. (They don't plan ahead...)
 
Impi barbs, what a pain in the ass.

I moved the scout to the nearby mountain (E,SE) and after spotting the game tiles settled in place. My initial build was warrior, settler, granary then settlers all the way. I recieved a town from my first Goodyu Hut in 3700bc (which i thought was not possible in GOTM games) which gave my start a great boost, but in 2350bc Zimbabwe suffered 2 turns of disease (again something which i thought was not possible in GOTM games) which dropped my pop back to 1, severely hampering the construction of the granary.

Once I got the granary in place I settled at RCP 4.5 and later, where possible, a second ring at 7.5.

Initially I researched the wheel at minimum, but after an early trade for Alpha, I switched to writing and went for republic as quickly as I could. After 5 turns of Anarchy the Zulu republic was founded in 800bc.The AA techs were completed in 650bc, Korea had already entered the MA and had Mono, so i traded / gifted Russia into the MA and they got Fued, but neither would trade for Republic. I decided to research Fuedalism and get Mono by force from Korea, my first intended target. I meet all civs except Persia relatively quickly and my 4 scouts do a good job of exploring the continent before getting picked off by impi barbs / horse barbs.

Scandinavia (1870bc) declare war after a refused demand. They were too far away to be a threat, but I get Russia to agree a MA and fight the Vikings. Russia break the MA but I keep the fake war going with Scandinavia for a long time. In 950bc Russia declares war, and again are too far away to be a real threat, but get India to declare on me aslo. The AA is spent getting my core built and fending off impi barbs ready for the MA wars.

1000bc stats
Towns, 10; Pop 23; Treasury 194g; Research republic complete in 4 turns.
Buildings: 1 barracks, 1 granary
Military: 1 settler, 7 workers, 8 warriors, 1 archer, 2 horsemen

Scratcher

By the way, where has the GOTM page gone from the home page? I cant find it to download games or make the submission.
And how do you insert spoiler tags? The symbol doesnt apear when posting a reply
 
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