Possibly moving from Civ V

ldvhl

ніщо
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
2,182
Hi all,

I'm kind of mad at V right now and not super interested in VI. My nostalgia for III is strong though, and I'd like to ask about a few mod options to see if they might expand the offerings from this franchise entry.

Is it possible to add new civilizations? Expand the tech tree? Add new mechanics like religion, corporations, etc.? Create map scripts for Giant-scale worlds?

Thanks all!
 
Hi all,

I'm kind of mad at V right now and not super interested in VI. My nostalgia for III is strong though, and I'd like to ask about a few mod options to see if they might expand the offerings from this franchise entry.

Is it possible to add new civilizations? Expand the tech tree? Add new mechanics like religion, corporations, etc.? Create map scripts for Giant-scale worlds?

Thanks all!

So modding is basically limited to what is offered in the Conquests Expansion Editor (there are some community editors which offer a few more things, but only what the Editor had originally locked you out of, or some already made settings that were never in the actual game), but you can manipulate those settings to create different mechanics in a way. Basically you have to cleverly work what the editor offers to make things like events and religions to work. Some civ3 mods like CCM have religions in it.

Adding civs is easily done, but you are restricted to a total of 31 civs in a .BIQ. You can have all those civs on the map, but you cannot have more than 31 civs selectable in the Player Setup with the current state of the game. You can change their art files and animations too.

Regarding the Tech Tree, you can make numerous amount of technologies either researchable, or just a tech that a civ already has at start, which you can also use to create their own specific tech lines that no other civ can research. You are restricted to 4 eras as in 4 different era pages. You could create mini-eras if you want on the same page, you just have to fit all of the tech boxes in. All these eras can be researched at the same time if you choose to, or just research one which unlocks the next like default civ3.

Map scripts are not really possible at least how it is in later civ games. You can make your own map, but that is the only map in that specific .BIQ and it is how you specifically place all the tiles. If you want a randomly generated world, you can set the size of the world and change what terrain tiles spawn, which can change how the world looks slightly. It would still mostly be random in its shape, but you can control it to a small extent. You can however have quite big worlds and from what I hear, they are actually larger than what later civ games offer.
 
Last edited:
I'll have to take a look at that then, thank you!
 
Nathiri gave a good overview, so I'll only touch on what I know enough about to discuss in more detail - maps. The absolute limit for maps is 65,536 tiles (traditionally 362x362, divided by two due to being isometric, although you can have more than 362 in each dimension). However, the practical limit is enough land to accomodate 512 cities, which is the maximum. There have been some attempts to circumvent that, but I'm not confident in saying that any of them have been fully successful. Still, that typically requires around 250x250 = 30,000-ish tiles, which is generally both more tiles and more cities than Civ4, which would run into memory problems before that point. I'm less familiar with the engine limitations of Civ 5, but 5 generally favors taller empires more versus the wider empires of III, and I don't recall seeing any Civ5 games with maps larger than the larger Civ3 ones.

From a playability standpoint, the map limitation is not RAM like in Civ4, but CPU speed, as a larger map and more AI civs slows down computation. Thus, on large maps with lots of AI civs, modders typically do things such as restricting which buildings enable water/air-based trade beyond the default, as trade calculations are among the largest CPU cycle culprits. Generally however, Civ3 is the most amenable to large maps with many cities of III -> V.

I'm not aware of any equivalent to Civ IV corporations, although it is possible to have buildings that generate set amounts of gold per turn, like in some Civ4 mods. This can be done simply by setting the maintenance cost to be negative. Adding new concepts in general is not technically possible (as it is in Civ4/5 with Python/Lua/SDK modding), but a number of mods have create semi-new features by using existing ones in creative, different ways. Civinator's micro-zones, for example, are a creative approach that was used in the Storm Over Europe mod to cause the AI to create a mix of units in roughly the correct proportions for the time period and strategy, despite it not actually being possible to modify the AI. They use strategic resource and strategic placement of roads/rails (and terrain) to enable certain cities to specialize in armor, some in aircraft, some in infantry, etc., resulting in about the right mix overall. I'm sure his initial post explains it better, but the gist is from the starting point of "the AI will produce what it calculates is the best unit available" he was able to achieve "the AI will create a period-and-strategy-appropriate mix of units", via creative use of the available mechanics.

On the whole, I find Civ3 has some of the most polished mods for Civ at large, particularly for historic time periods (where it also has a great variety of mods). I attribute this to having a fairly powerful set of tools that is fairly easy to use, allowing those whose expertise is in areas such as history to be able to create detailed, in-depth mods, without having to be programmers themselves.

Civ4 (and probably Civ5 too, although I've read it isn't as flexible with modding as IV) does allow for more powerful modding, including completely new concepts, and some mods have made good use of this. However, to really take advantage of that power requires being a programmer, and if you aren't a programmer, what you're left with is less powerful than what Civ3 offers. I think this niche has served Civ3 well over the years, as it helped it gain a sizeable library of mods and scenarios by allowing it to draw on a larger pool of talent, and a fair amount of that talent has stuck around for a long time. Complete overhauls like Fall from Heaven II aren't possible, but quite a bit of really-quite-good modding is.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to our little corner of CivFanatics, ldvhl! Civ III is the most easily moddable 4X game ever made. You can mod all of the terrain, all of the techs and their positions in the tech tree, use a variable number of eras (up to four), and include hundreds of specialized buildings and units.

By combining the effects of techs, improvements, wonders and eras, and unit abilities, one can nearly 'script' a scenario. I recommend Vuldacon's Escape from Zombie Island 2 Complete as an example of how careful balancing of those elements can result in aggresive gameplay almost unrecognizable from the original.

And for a start on the graphic potential that exists for this game, check out my stuff in the database (although for sheer usefulness, Pounder and Goldfool were always my go-to guys).

There are several game editors, and lots of little tools available to help with modding, but where this forum really shines is it's enormous database of bits and pieces of mods; interfaces, leaderheads, game maps, resources and literally thousands of original units for you to build with. If there's something you need, just ask. Someone will be glad to point you in the right direction.
 
Thank you all! With the download database back up I can take a look directly at this stuff. Hope to be back!
 
(...)it is possible to have buildings that generate set amounts of gold per turn, like in some Civ4 mods. This can be done simply by setting the maintenance cost to be negative.

Wait, I thought that this didn't work, even with your editor. I thought only negative culture worked. If it does that would be great.
 
Top Bottom