Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

[WastinTime]

Liz, Darius, Vicky, and Willy are my research team (w/Mansa). Peter is a good trader, but very slow this game.

More specifically. We all know Mansa trades when 0% of other AI have the tech.
For Peter it's only 10%, so he'll (often, not always) trade things when only 1 other AI knows the tech
Willy is 15%.
Vicky and Darius: 30%
Liz is 40%.
(fyi Toku is 100%)

Examples:
Right now there are 10 players alive, so when an AI is considering trading there are 8 other AI.
Willy won't trade me Calendar, for example, if only 1 other AI knows it. 1/8 = 12.5%
but if 2 other AI know it. 2/8 = 25%. He trades.
if I kill 2 AI, then Willy will trade with only 1 other AI knowing it. 1/6 = 16%

If Vicky, Liz, and Darius all have CoL, they won't trade it unless I kill 2 AI. 2/6 = 33%

Sounds like I should kill 2 more AI.

Gifting Peter a ton of tech and get him to do something useful might have been a good idea when I met him. Now he's the worst enemy of Mansa and I can't afford -4 diplo w/ Mansa rt now.

 

[WastinTime]

(MarbleStart T157) The only unrevealed tile on the entire mainland (inside AI culture) turned out to be Roosevelt's Iron . He has a sword already Scouting failure . Oh well, I didn't really want to kill him. I'd like to get a shrine out of him. His cities are pretty bad (other than the capital).

 

[diegobueno]

Scouting failure

"military intelligence"

 

[WastinTime]

2nd GG has been around for a while. What to do?

- make a 2nd healer? This is what I usually do, but why this game? I'm not even at war rt now Not sure who to attack. The only way I should need a 2nd healer is if I attack Peter or Liz (in the west Ocean).

- settle it for +2 XP. I don't have an HEpic city picked out yet.

- Make a super attacker? with what, a sword?

- Save it

- Something I've done many times is use it for fast boats.
Give 10xp to 2 galleys (each gets flanking, nav1, nav2) for 4 movement.
or
Give 5xp to 4 galleys (each gets flanking, nav1) for 3 movement.

It will probably be a while before I have 4 galleys all in the same general area and can stack them, so I guess I should go for the 2 galleys w/ 4 moves.

This kinda wastes the General's Morale promo for +1 move
I could make one 20xp galley with 5 moves. (upgraded to galleon it will have 7 moves)

 

[WastinTime]

I don't have an HEpic city picked out yet.

Do I dare do the unthinkable and put Heroic Epic in my capital Cuzco?

It's in a nice central location to attack the remaining AI. (probably not quite as good location as Justin's old cities, north of Cuzco)

It has Iron, gold, gold, 3 hills. And most of those floodplains could be workshops.
Bureau + forge + HE is +175%

66 base would give 180hpt for 1 knight per turn.

Since I'm not doing cottages for the first time, why not stress Bureaucracy's +50% instead of always focusing on the +50% I guess it's because you get the +50% and then library, etc. modifiers go on top of that.

Probably a bad idea. Cuzco will need to do University, monastery?, observatory? I can't completely waste the

 

[WastinTime]

I keep trying to play on, but there's so many decisions. And after taking a few days off, it's hard to remember exactly what everyone was doing. This turn is taking forever.

I think HEpic goes in Constantinople. It does 12hpt without workshops. Has a few forests left and good food. I might need to reset anger there before doing the barracks.

Then there's Roosevelt...

I didn't really want to kill him. I'd like to get a shrine out of him. His cities are pretty bad (other than the capital).

I actually want to kill him.
a) his 3 coastal cities give me access to the east ocean.
b) the cities all have food in 1st ring
c) my army is right there, that was the plan, to hit him next.
d) I can knock out his Iron on DoW+0
e) most importantly, the Moai is built and capturing the city will give me all my failgold...(I think. Still need to test that)

but he's been at war forever. He could be too tough. Walls/hill capital

Analysis paralysis.

 

[UnforcedError]

I could make one 20xp galley with 5 moves.

That's what I'd vote for, considering you can also use it to transport settlers in peace time fo the planned island cities.

Do I dare do the unthinkable and put Heroic Epic in my capital Cuzco?

You're planning to skip Oxford, so that makes room for one. But for the cap Bur might be enough early on without the HE. Also, you must plan for a maximum of one NW in any city, otherwise you exclude them from NW failgolds, at least until late mid game, correct?

 

[diegobueno]

most importantly, the Moai is built and capturing the city will give me all my failgold...(I think. Still need to test that)

maybe im wrong but i think the moai is destroyed in the process.

 

[WastinTime]

maybe im wrong but i think the moai is destroyed in the process.

I'm thinking it's only destroyed if I own another complete Moai. But I kinda remember it getting lost too. Test needed. I know for sure that a Hermitage that I built, gifted away, recaptured does not get destroyed.

 

[WastinTime]

Also, you must plan for a maximum of one NW in any city, otherwise you exclude them from NW failgolds

That's a good point to remember, but I don't see too many situations where I'd have more than one other than Cuzco. I suppose National Park could go with National Epic but that seems unlikely.

Bur might be enough early on without the HE

Nah, even if I was doing 40 base hammers (which is crazy high), that would be only 70h (bureau+forge). That's only enough hammers to do the smaller units (axe, spear). I know what you're thinking tho. On normal speed, in the last SG, we were building 1 knight every turn in our HE city and we didn't even build a forge much less have Bureau. So yea, on normal speed, be careful stacking all your hammer boosters.

 

[Folket]

I did some math and I concluded that you may get a 100% GE on turn 210. Starting a GA with Philosophy on turn 190 with pyramids. By making a city after the GE city generate 599 something GPP on turn 209 you could get a great person on the turn the GA ends by running 7-8 scientists. Which can be used for your next GA. Also you can optimize your other great person cities to have some scientists during this GA instead of working weaker tiles.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I'm thinking it's only destroyed if I own another complete Moai. But I kinda remember it getting lost too. Test needed. I know for sure that a Hermitage that I built, gifted away, recaptured does not get destroyed.

Recapturing a City where you have Cultural dominance can mean no City Revolt. It is during the City Revolt where Buildings get destroyed.

If you have sufficient Cultural dominance in the City to avoid City Revolt and you don't have the National Wonder anywhere else, you should be able to keep the National Wonder (I've done so, even with National Wonders which produce Culture, such as Moai Statues--the Hermitage does not produce Culture, so it could have been a different case, but it isn't a different case, since National Wonders appear to be in a different category from Culture-producing Buildings, whereas Cultural Buildings do not appear to survive a City capture, even when you have 100% Cultural dominance in the City).

Chances are that if you didn't build the National Wonder yourself, it's going to get destroyed, as, even if you had previously owned the City and had put some Culture into the City, Moai Statues would have been giving the AI some Culture of their own in the City, and thus you are unlikely to have Cultural dominance in the City.

Some Buildings have a chance of surviving a City Revolt and that chance goes up with your Cultural percentage. One area where I am not clear is whether National Wonders will have a chance to survive a City Revolt occurrence if you have some Cultural percentage in the City.

If you were able to Culture Flip the City, and you didn't have the National Wonder elsewhere, the National Wonder would survive, but waiting for a Culture Flip to occur is unlikely to be a wise play in most cases.

 

[MyOtherName]

Building Research versus Building Wealth:
...
When the commerce slider is closer to 100% wealth, Building Research is best.
...
When the commerce slider is closer to 100% research, Building Wealth is best.

This is wrong. The relevant quantity is what multipliers you have available for your commerce; the position of the slider is irrelevant.

Imagine you have a city building N research. If you switch it to wealth, that means you are getting N more gold, which means that you need to generate N less gold through commerce, which means you get to turn it into M science instead.

If your average multiplier is higher for science, then M > N, so the switch is good. If your average multiplier is higher for gold, then M < N, so the switch is bad.

E.g. if you have at least one library but have no markets/grocers/banks, you should always prefer to build wealth. No matter what position your slider is in. (unless, of course, you have 'infinite' gold)

(possible exception -- if you're about to finish enough banks so that would make you prefer to build research, but already have enough of a gold surplus to cover your expenses until then while running 100% research, you'd be better off getting a head start on building research rather than continuing to build wealth. It's the same idea as saving up a gold surplus while you're waiting for your library to finish, or waiting for your GS to pop to build an academy)

 

[rah]

Wow, deep it up. This thread has become more of a daily must read thread than the CIV VI review threads. (which are depressing)

 

[AbsintheRed]

Wow, deep it up. This thread has become more of a daily must read thread than the CIV VI review threads. (which are depressing)

Couldn't agree more

 

[WastinTime]

Cultural Buildings do not appear to survive a City capture, even when you have 100% Cultural dominance in the City

Academy and world wonders survive--even in revolt.
Sounds like you didn't test yet either. rt now, I'm just trying to get to T160 and get everyone up to date. Then I'll get a test in if no one else has

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm thinking it's only destroyed if I own another complete Moai. But I kinda remember it getting lost too. Test needed. I know for sure that a Hermitage that I built, gifted away, recaptured does not get destroyed.

As long as the AI does not already have the same National Wonder as the one in the city you give to it, and you do not complete that NW in another city, the National Wonder will still be in the city when you recapture it.

I have done this many times with different National Wonders in my recent games.

EDITED for clarification: A National Wonder is only destroyed when a city is acquired that duplicates a pre-existing identical NW; The acquired city will then lose its NW; The pre-existing NW in the other city will survive.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

This is wrong. The relevant quantity is what multipliers you have available for your commerce; the position of the slider is irrelevant.

Sorry, your assumption that slider position is irrelevant is incorrect. It is critical to know whether commerce is being converted into mainly research or mainly wealth to know whether Building Wealth or Building Research increases the research rate. I have played numerous games, including some SGOTM games, using the guidelines I provided; I assure you that they are sound.

Just experiment with the slider and build Wealth or Research as I described in your own games; You will see that what I have said on this topic earlier in this thread is true (assuming one has much more commerce than one has hammers that can be converted to either Wealth or Research -- this is almost always the case in Warlords/BtS games [see note on Vanilla below]; if one has many more hammers than commerce, we might approach a situation were the slider is [almost] irrelevant and my guidelines probably would not apply). The commerce slider almost always has a greater impact on research rate than the hammer multiplier buildings, research multiplier buildings or wealth multiplier buildings, assuming of course that one has much more commerce (don't forget trade routes) than hammers that can be applied to Research or Wealth.

Note that Vanilla Civ IV has "broken" Build Wealth and Build Research where one needs to put in 2 hammers to get 1 research or 1 wealth unit respectively. Building Wealth or Research in Vanilla should be typically avoided, if there are viable alternates.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Academy and world wonders survive--even in revolt.
Sounds like you didn't test yet either. rt now, I'm just trying to get to T160 and get everyone up to date. Then I'll get a test in if no one else has

I'm also quite sure national wonders survive as well as world wonders. The only exception is national wonder duplication; the acquired city must lose the duplicated NW in that case.

I don't believe that one even needs one's culture in the city during a revolt; cultural buildings are always lost; wonders, even national wonders always survive, unless that would cause a duplicate NW in the same Civ.

 

[WastinTime]

I believe I'm going to resurrect quechua whipping to close the gap between wonder failgold (since I don't have missionaries available)
I still need Q's for MP duty.
It's not so bad now that we're out of the 'early game'. Post forge, I can whip a 29/30 quechua and get 82 and 24h base OF into a wonder for a total of 148 :gold: from one population. That's approx. 1 = 4