Deitymania #2: Lincoln

Lain

King
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
718
New game after winning the first one. I rolled Huayna first. Then I laughed for 30 seconds and rolled this instead.

Lincoln is still a great leader though.

Settings same as before:

Deity
Fractal
No Huts/Events
Everything else default

Starting position

Spoiler :






Played 5 turns just to take a peak at what we have. This will be a rather disgusting one. Should be fun :).
Will post my first 25 turns or so later I think.

Shadows welcome. Last time nobody played beyond Turn 100 somehow, even though some people had rather interesting positions with early Axes. What will you do here?
 

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So I played 9 turns. I could already lose with a wrong decision here I suppose

Spoiler :


I settled 1E and started with Workboat. My reasoning for moving is: I want a 3-something tile for a start like this. There is no forested plains hill, so the only 3F-tile would be the floodplain. I can grow to size 2 working that, get out a workboat and whip a worker after teching Mining-BW ... the 1-commerce from working the floodplain should be useful aswell.

Not moving would leave me with no good tile to work. That's what I thought at least.



I will tech Mining, but holding back my beakers for the first 5 turns, hoping to meet someone and thereby getting a little boost on Mining.

On Turn 4 I meet Joao. Actually, I would gladly trade the small research boost for staying without an imperialistic neighbour like that.



Uhh, there are the borders of his capital... looking on the brightside, I won't need barb defense.



My warrior takes on a lion and wins.



I meet Cyrus on Turn 9 and put my spypoints on him.



Finished Mining, going to tech Bronze Working I suppose. Hoping for Copper to choke Joao. Capital just grew to size 2 working the floodplain. Now I wanted to do this and get out the workboat.

But... that seems awfully slow and maybe I should get a settler immediately? Maybe it's even too late for that. Any tips?



If I don't find Copper, I will probably go for Great Lighthouse, settle the Island and go for Construction. Catapults+Archers or something. Done that before, just not on Deity.



Quechua would come in handy now.
 
I can see why nobody replied here yet, this map makes my sado-maso ones look like fluffy bunnies Oo

I am trying..
Spoiler :
HA rush, only 2 cities. Thought settling plains cows with low amount of new forests was not worth it. Turn 74 and soon ready to attack
Spoiler :


Basically after finding no copper, i did tech AH for horsies..then hoped i find some, then hoped i can settle them before Joao ;)

2nd city is not great, but some forests. While waiting for archery i started stables there, some more experienced might be useful.
Washi did build library, and used Philo for maths bulb to at least have some prod.

Only 1 worker lol, well he had time for pre-chopping so not much benefit in 2. Not much land to improve here.

Wonder if i will have a chance, but i think so..Lisbon not on hills, and Joao declared on Cyrus for some reason.
9 cities thou.
 

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1 clam would be terrible :)

Regarding opening turns, i did also move off floodplains.
Used them at size 1 while building boat, then added silk forest at size 2.
I kept using floodplains thou, clams are not that much better imo, so i did not use 2 forests for a quicker boat.

Whipped worker late at size 4 (mining + BW first), overflow did complete 2nd boat.
I did not think much about if there's something better, but was not bad.
(still slow compared with most starts thou)
 
Start looks pretty gross. The settler standing on top of a FP and having to burn a turn and a kill a forest to move off of it is pretty gross too.
 
Whipped worker late at size 4 (mining + BW first), overflow did complete 2nd boat.
I did not think much about if there's something better, but was not bad.
Didn't do any maths but I'd bet worker first is the superior. Farm fp, mine gh, road/chop to city 2.
Anyway we're looking at 4 yield tiles.
WB first must get some extra commerce but loses on hammers.

Comic version of my screenie above ;)
Ah ! You beat me to it !
For reference, although I don't have Fippy's madz paintz skillz :
Spoiler :


Shadows welcome. Last time nobody played beyond Turn 100 somehow, even though some people had rather interesting positions with early Axes. What will you do here?
That was probably me. I just do that. Play some turns in and then quit.
 
To Turn 50:

Spoiler :


So I actually decided to build workboat at size 2 as quickly as possible. I don't like this kind of start and so I don't know many variations on how to play this. So my plan is something like: build workboat, build worker, chop settler and 1-pop-whip the settler if necessary. And I think it will be necessary.



If I manage to do so, 2nd city between cow and rice would be nice. Maybe copper there aswell.



Met Alex on Turn 16. Hope I can count him in when I start the inevitable crusade against puny Portugese empire.



Researched Bronze Working. Worker will be complete in 2 turns, then chop the settler at size 2 working Clam + Silk-Forest. Will adopt Slavery after worker is finished for a possible settler-whip.



What is this. I didn't even start on a settler yet. Why does he settle my dry rice? Seems a bit cocky to me. And of course no copper to be found.



I start researching Sailing for connecting my cities. I also want to settle my island, hoping for more (and better) land. Lighthouse for my seafood makes sense. Might take a shot at the Great Lighthouse aswell. I hope it will go rather late since I can't beeline it straightaway without giving up the little bit of land I might get. Also my Empire will just have 1 worker for quite a while. Just 1 warrior aswell. Hope Joao doesn't get a stupid idea and attacks me.

I found another place to settle. On the plains hill with Fish in first ring. If Joao takes this aswell I will storm his capital with my warrior and take him out ;)



Can't start too early with making friends.



I chopped 2 forests and will whip the rest of the settler because I get a panic attack whenever an Portugese archer appears on his borders.



Question for some expert: Will Joao attempt to settle the island even though my culture sort of blocks him off? I would have to close borders with him then. Also note how he is improving the rice he has stolen from me. Rubbing it in.



Settler is ready and city is at Pop 1 again growing on Clam. I chop a 3rd forest to get out the 2nd workboat. New city will have to slow-build a workboat on its own.

Tech-wise I lose the plot a bit. I want Masonry for Great Lighthouse, but I won't need it right away. Other options:

Wheel: No need, I have Sailing. It is rather expensive aswell.
Animal Husbandry: For the plains cow ....... and to see Horses. Also I need to get to writing somehow. I should have researched this now. But I decided against a Horse Archer rush anyway, because with a start like this I didn't fancy my chances very much. And Horse Archers are do-or-die. I will try my luck with Construction I think.
Mysticism: I will need a border pop eventually for my new city since Joao's culture will suffocate it otherwise. So I teched this. Mistake since I won't build a monument for a while. But at least Masonry will be cheaper. Also, we are Charismatic, so a Monument actually makes some sense just on its own.



I hook up my second clam, mix in some poison, put them in a box for shipping to Joao in exchange for the rice which belongs to me anyway. Look at this smug face. Just look at him.



New York, my 2nd city. Building a workboat in 8 turns, then growing to size 2 to whip a Galley I think.



Capital going straight for the next settler at size 2 working both clams. Worker still doing nothing else than chopping.



Turn 41: Don't know where this guy came from, but seeing as he hasn't met anyone else on my landmass, I guess he is somewhere across the island I wish to settle soon. Interesting.



The worker just eliminated the 5th forest in a row. Workboat in New York is almost done, Animal Husbandry will be just in time for plains-cow-city. My finger is nervously trembling over the whip button, ready to engage any portugese settling party which our best (and only) military general might report seeing.



There we go. But he is too late. Note that he already has Swordsmen, sponsored by the gold in his capital. This guy is a monster. Starting to suspect he is not even human.



Worker finished a mine on the plains hill, ready to jump and improve the cows upon researching AH.

City overview, starting with capital. It will grow to size 4 and whip a Lighthouse into something (Great Lighthouse?) I guess.



New York: will whip this Galley and start on Lighthouse or Monument.



Boston: will switch to the plains cow after lumberjack-worker has figured out how to pasture stuff. Then chop the settler, put him on the galley and settle the (hopefully) rich island. And with 4 cities I should be able to stomp you-know-who. Great Lighthouse would be nice to pay for the upcoming fun.



Oh yeah, I missed the Horses due to my tech order. Not sure I would have wanted a city just to grab them, but the option would have been nice. Though I couldn't have leapfrogged Joao's settler party there anyway.

:( Horsies. Will be pacified soon.





Can anyone point me to a good guide on how to read demographics? I might want to re-check Turn 0 or Turn 1 and figure out how many Civs started coastal here.

Detailed write-ups always lend themselves to being picked apart, so feel free :)
 
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From this I can figure out that my rivals are all rather inland...ish. On average 1 to 2 rival tiles are not land. Anyone able to make a more in-depth analysis than that? :D

Further analysis: There are 46 land tiles between my rivals divided by 6 Civs. 46:6 = 7,66 ...
Soooo ... could be 2 civs with 3 coastal tiles, 1 civ with 2 ... and 3 civs completely inland with zero coast. Don't know what to make of this. I'd say, Great Lighthouse ahoy or whatcha think?

Spoiler :




 

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To Turn 50:
Can anyone point me to a good guide on how to read demographics? I might want to re-check Turn 0 or Turn 1 and figure out how many Civs started coastal here.

That one is pretty easy. Look at the "Land Area" category on the demo screen. Each land tile = 1000 and water tiles = 0. On T1 there's one AI with 6000 land so that's most likely a coastal start with 3 water tiles. If you see 8000 it's quite often an inland start with a lake tile. Our 6 rivals here = 7666 so thats 46000 total or 46 land tiles. We know one AI has 9 land tiles and another has 6 land tiles. That leaves 31 land tiles for the other 4 AI. I'd say it's fairly likely that 2 are coastal.

If this were an immortal (or below) game you could wait for border pops and then count land tiles again. It's easier to discern who's coastal with 21 tiles rather than 9. You can also see if CRE leaders are in the game because they will get border pops in 3T rather than 5T. Unfortunately, this is Deity so AI will settle another city shortly and that can make it more difficult to figure out what's going on.
 
Yeah, glad I didn't make a mistake thus far, since you got the same result.

I was curious about the soldier count aswell. Deity AI starts with: 4 archers and 2 scouts, correct? They also have Hunting and Archery by default, but nothing else, right?

Sooo...

4 x 3000 Soldiers (Archers) + 6000 (Archery) + 2000 (Hunting) .... that is 20000. How do they have at least 24000 then? Wheel aswell?

No Mansa or Hammy in the game I figure. Knowing the Civs I met already, is it possible to figure out exactly who else I am up against?

Two Civs with Mining in the game then, both of which I already met

Spoiler :

(Portugal + Korea).


Fascinating stuff. Never bothered to dig into this before.
 
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Lain, yep Bighat can settle "your" island ;)
Borders only stop that on land, they will sail thru your culture for islands or other continents.

Hmm if you chop so many forests early, will you have enuf for GLH?
Even if they start mostly inland, should not be later than turn ~65.
 
Hmm, Turn 65 will be impossible. I hope to get a late Great Lighthouse and if not, at least some failgold and tech to construction. Bulb Math with quick GS. Will see how that works out. I didn't want to go all out for that.

Looking forward to read about your game when I reach Turn ~75 tomorrow :)
 
Turn 75 (I couldn't wait, need to see screenies !!1)

Spoiler :


Managed to secure all granary resources by exporting some slimy fish-stuff



So far no sign of any Galleys or Settlers from Joao. I can't close borders with him for 7 more turns (he got Writing). So if he settles my island now you will hear my screams no matter where you are.



Washington will whip the Lighthouse into the Great Lighthouse and try to build that thing. Early estimations say: I could have it at Turn ~70



Boston can work cows now and I will chop a forest into the settler.



New York whipped a Galley (on its way to explore island), now Monument, probably Workboat next (explore even further) and then finally Lighthouse and grow. Will get a GS from here. I want at least two: One for Maths-Bulb (though I start to think this is a bad idea) an one for Philo bulb (to stay in tech game while I dedicate ressources to warfare)



Nobody is building many wonders, so I am slightly optimistic about GL



Galley finds the Korean borders, but has to return to ship the settler in time. Note that we are keeping up in terms of city count.



Time to chop what we have left. One worker for soon 4 cities.



The fact that Korea isn't putting any spy spoints on me means he is not alone over there, so I will dedicate a workboat to exploration.



There are 2 spots to settle on the island. Since I can deny Joao from crossing my culture and settling the eastern one and Wang Kon seems like he ran out of space on his continent (+I can't stop him with culture) I decide to settle the sheep first. Settler is ready.



Hope there is no Barb over there :(



So far so good. Settler, you can come out now. Brave army general secured rock.



Aah, there is copper on the island. So maybe no Catapult/Archer action after all.



Workboat waiting for passage. After Masonry I teched Writing. What to research after that? No clue yet.



Meanwhile, Great Lighthouse coming along nicely.



But what is that, mighty Persian empire started plotting. I wonder on who. He is cautious towards everyone and no border tensions either. He can pass Joao's borders so maybe... island will become mainland America soon.



Joao claims some more land and we are surrounded now.



However, The Great Lighthouse is mine :)



City overview, starting with Capital. Building a Library now and running scientists as soon as possible. Though a Great Merchant wouldn't be horrible at all.



Similar plans for New York, whip a Library and run scientists.



Boston slow-built another settler for the Clam/Copper on the island. Mooo!



Philadelphia slow-built a worker for itself but it was net-gain immediately upon settling due to nice trade route (+3 from Joao)



Empire overview:



Apparently Korea doesn't want the jungle stuff on his continent. What if I go full crazy mode and just settle everything on his coast? There is plains cow, we have experience with food like that.





I actually stopped because of research decision. I want to research Aesthetics, to trade for Alpha (Iron Working, Monarchy, etc), bulb (or trade) Maths and self-tech Construction. But is that too slow? With my commerce now I could just self-tech Maths-Construction in 16 turns or something. What to dooo? Halp please.
 
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@Fippy:

Spoiler :


Curious to see how that works out :). 9 cities seems tough, looks like he settled the island too. And he probably has some stacks if he plotted war on Cyrus. I was too scared of Bighat to try Horse Archers myself. I'd rather go with Catapults vs Longbows and try to grind him down somehow. Will see how that works out though :(



Like the comic versions a lot :)
 
@Fippy+Lain
Spoiler :
Always interesting to see two completely different approaches. :) Lain, I'd assume it would be consistent for your strategy to settle more land on the Korea-continent, if you can find decent spots. I'm kinda rooting for Fippy though :lol: as I'd much want to see that work even on deity. Lincoln has the perfect traits for "crap land HA-rush" at least.
 
So i attacked with this crowd, 11 HA + 1 chariot :)
Decided i better bring all my guys, Joao building loads of troops and other cities all had at least 3 defenders.
Spoiler :

Went better than expected, stables paid cos shock was very useful.
Spoiler :


Being a forum game, i will try to get peoples involved :)
An overview
Spoiler :


Hmm so what should we do now ;)
I think attacking the fortified sword makes not much sense.
Needing defenders for Lisbon as well, i think i would probably move in and wait next turn.

Certainly want Braga, but there's a spear.
5 healthy HAs + chariot would do, but then no Lisbon defense.
And only 4 HAs..not good.

Would you whip the archer quickly in New York, for Spears defense?
Joao will not talk yet, cease fires are certainly a nice option soon.
Nobody pleased with him as well, no diplo negatives.
 

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@Fippy Guess you could get Braga (at the cost of on average what, ~3 HAs?) and then take cease fire? Would that cause all his wondering troops head towards Cyrus? He will have alpha soon, but I guess you can't get anything good in peace deal yet and don't want the 10 turn peace. I think whipping an archer in NY is such a big sacrifice that I'd do it only if absolutely necessary. I'm assuming Joao is more or less done if you can get Braga soon and holy city soon after ceasing fire. I might be underestimating deity AI though.
 
Yes, Fippy makes a good, strong point.
On a tough map, something radical should be done early on.
She's got guts, though. Eow... And plays it fine. Early on it's do or die. That HA rush looks sooooo easy to fail :D
Thank Sid that Bighat got into a war ^^ He may still have a stack, btw, or maybe he never had one... dunno...


The passive expansion route runs the risk of getting out-teched + out-produced out of the game. (Only gpp into tech edge can be a way out when you're so surpassed.)
Besides, there's also the DoW risk. Playing passive means that the RNG can say "game over" any turn.
Still, I think Lain did pretty well thus far. He managed to maximize the expansion and even got a key wonder.

@ Lain tech path :
Spoiler :
I opened in a similar fashion (expansion ; although I blocked less land and didn't wonderplay) and went Aesth --> Drama. Will then backfill Meditation to open a Philosophy bulb.
Depending on the AIs' tech path in your game, another route may prove better.

Catapults ? Maybe. Without much teching power, you want to get some action soon rather than late. You might consider going as far as Rifling peacefully but that's really the end of the line.
Really, it depends upon what your target is doing. If they get L-bows, you're probably screwed... but then again, teching up runs a similar risk.
 
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