ALC Game #23: America/Lincoln

Sisiutil

All Leader Challenger
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
6,899
Location
Pacific Northwest
All Leaders Challenge Game #23:
America/Lincoln


Pre-Game Thread

Starting Position (this post, below)
Round 1: 4000 BC to 2950 BC (42 turns)
Round 2: 2950 BC to 1675 BC (51 turns)
Round 3: 1675 BC to 275 BC (62 turns)
Round 4: 275 BC to 190 AD (31 turns)
Round 5: 190 AD to 990 AD (58 turns)
Round 6: 990 AD to 1525 AD (81 turns)
Round 7: 1525 AD to 1720 AD (45 turns)
Round 8: 1720 AD to 1772 AD (26 turns)
Round 9: 1772 AD to 1903 AD (97 turns)
Post Mortem

The idea of the All Leaders Challenge is that I'm going to play a game with each of the Civ IV leaders. With the help of all the posters who participate, I will attempt to make the most of the leader's unique characteristics: traits, starting techs, unit, and building. Aside from the leader, the other game settings are (mostly) kept constant for the sake of comparison. I will post the saved game files, screenshots, and status reports here as the game progresses. Everyone then has a chance to chime in with their strategy ideas, or voice their frustration (or glee) when I make a mistake. ;)

Everyone is invited to offer opinions and advice, and to make your own attempt at playing the same game. But if you do play a "shadow game", I kindly request that you refrain from posting spoilers--i.e. any facts or even hints about the map, opponents, and so on--before I'm there myself. I'm trying to play the game as authentically as possible.

In this ALC game, I'll be playing as Abraham Lincoln, leader of the United States of America. I'm playing the game using the Beyond the Sword expansion pack, its latest patch (3.17), and Solver's unofficial patch as well. I also have Bhruic's unofficial patch that restores the "Glance" screen in the Diplomacy Advisor, which I had installed previously and which the 3.17 patch did not, thankfully, remove. The difficulty level is, for the first time, Immortal, the map is Archipelago (more details below), and the speed is Epic.



As you can see, I chose Archipelago, but with low sea levels and snaky continents turned on. This should result in some large, interestingly-shaped land masses with some natural choke points, among other things. We should still have the option of doing some sort of late-game intercontinental invasion to leverage the Navy SEALs.

In addition, I added two civilizations to bring the total number (including myself) up to nine. Some of you were recommending this in the pre-game thread, and I kind of like the idea. Will it make things harder or easier? Probably a bit of both. More civs often means more trading partners, but if it's the wrong civ right next door, it could be more dangerous. I almost always add one or two additional civs to the map in my off-line games, and it definitely makes the game more fun.

And finally, I've increased the difficulty level. I'm now in that usual dilemma of civvers everywhere: my current difficulty level (Emperor) has become too easy, while the next one up (Immortal) is kicking my sorry, pasty white rump on the few times I've attempted it. But I have the hive mind to help me out, as well as Lincoln's excellent trait combination, so I've made the jump.

(As several of you have recommended, future ALCs may jump back and forth between Immortal and Emperor, depending on the leader. The series is all about leveraging each leader's characteristics, and many of you who play at Immortal or Deity have warned me that the ability to do that becomes limited. We'll see how things turn out this time and will probably decide on the difficulty level to be used in each pre-game thread.)

Now here's the starting position:



Not too shabby, though not overpowering, either. Three clams within reach to take advantage of America starting with the Fishing technology. No grains visible to leverage the other starting tech, Agriculture, yet, though I could always farm the flood plains. There's a goody hut right next door along with a lake for the fresh water bonus, and pigs in the distance for a future (?) city.

The logical move for the Warrior (always a popular topic around here ;)) appears to be 1 NW, onto the forested plains hill to reveal several tiles west of the Settler. Which will help with the next decision...

Where should the capital go? The only options, in my mind, seem to be either settling in place or moving 1W. Moving would grab more land tiles--which is nearly always a good idea--including several riverside tiles, which will help Washington become the cottaged capital providing commerce to the specialist economy. However, that's a forested tile, and I'm not sure if sacrificing a turn at Immortal level is a good idea. I'd be giving up one clam tile, as well as the extra hammer from the plains hill I'm starting on. Also, settling in place would make this site a better GP farm than a Bureaucracy-enhanced cottaged capital, so I might look at moving the capital later if I manage to find a better commerce-generating site--with a river and flood plains nearby, that's a definite possibility.

So, long term, I think 1W is better; short term, however, which might make all the difference at Immortal level, settling in place makes sense. But as usual, I'll heed your advice (and, of course, move the Warrior) before making any further decisions.

Schedule-wise, I plan to post the results of the Warrior move tomorrow night, and the first round on Wednesday. I'll try to keep things moving at a steady clip so the game doesn't drag on forever like they did with Saladin. :blush:
 

Attachments

  • Sisiutil BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
    38.1 KB · Views: 491
Schedule-wise, I plan to post the results of the Warrior move tomorrow night, and the first round on Wednesday. I'll try to keep things moving at a steady clip so the game doesn't drag on forever like they did with Saladin. :blush:

Man, one day for a single move is not a good precedent to be setting! I agree on the warrior move and to keep things going would just do it now. Two scenarios if you wait a day -
1. Everyone else agrees with warrior move, gaining you nothing, or
2. Fights break out and a vibe of indecision takes hold at the start:mischief:
 
I think you've actually underestimated that starting spot. Sure, there's no gold, but that is a ton of excess food for running specialists, and I always love settling on plains/hills for the quicker early production if you settle in place. Moai Statues also looks good if you settle in place. I vote for one west, though. In addition to being able to work more land tiles it also moves your capitol a bit further inland.

Also, the Americans luckily start with Fishing! :) I am not sure what your build order should be. I always have difficult with fishing boats. I think worker -> fishing boat -> settler is best here, but I could be wrong.
 
My humblest of inexpert (haven't played Civ in a year, let alone BtS) opinion on the location of the capital would be as such:

Settle in place. Abe is philosophical, the better to great-person farm the sh** out of those clams with. Abe is charismatic, the better to make a big city from all those damn clams with, lending itself to a great-person farm. You're on immortal, which makes me tremble in fear and my panic-sense is saying you can't waste a single turn :lol:

Also, Warrior? 1NW looks good to me.
 
Please, Sis, do me a favor: move the warrior yourself now before we have 10 pages of discussion about it ;)
 
Settle in place! Don't even move the warrior first lol.

It's a solid start for Lincoln. Versatile capitol - you can go commerce or specialists. I'd go commerce, most likely.

Hahaha go for pottery while building work boats. Then build workers and cottage. Mmmm, early commerce.
 
I don't think moving the warrior 1NW tells us anything new about the 1W city site: unless my eyes are deceiving me (and they have in the past), we already know that those tiles are flood plains.
 
I agree with the settle in place. Early settler/worker/GP farm in Washington during which you slow build Moai Statues. Depending on how the game plays decide later whether Heroic/West Point/Wall Street should be the other National.

With settling in place 1NW doesn't offer you a lot of helpful information that you won't get from the city. The only reason is that you will probably see more land and thus maybe see another goodie hut (but their is one visible right now so how likely is it that another one is near by). I recommend 1SE since you want to know the snakyness and largeness the landmass you are on. 1S won't tell you anything new because of the forests and hill south of it.

Looking at the map again...:

Move the warrior 1NW to see if/how many more production oriented tiles you will get in the BFC. Settling 1W keeps to clams which is good, and it gets you another mined plains hill to work (at least). With only 6 water tiles now you can now save the Moai Statues for another city and still have a navy.

Consider that either way you can settle the tile 1S of the warrior and get a clams/pig city with lots of hills and a 2 hammer city center.

Workboat are your friend until you get bronze working since it is better to work the clams 4/2 than farmed floodplains (4/1). Beelining pottery is an option to get cottages on those floodplains and if you do settle city #2 1S of the current warrior you shouldn't have a problem with early production/military.

Given the difficulty level and the generally rare 7coast/1lake city (rare for non-capital cities) I would settle in place with the intention of sharing the clams with a city 1S of the warrior and quite possibly across the bay as well. Moving the warrior 1SE to see how the land is shaped.
 
Pro's for settling in place:
1. 3 clams, what is not to love about it.
2. Start on a plains hill for faster workboat production
3. Settler will pop the hut for the best effects since you will have city then

Pro's for 1 W
1. More land tiles to work, approximately 3 flood plains and 1 riverside grass land for 4 sea tiles.
2. 1 more extra plains hill to work with a lot of food
3. Opening up 1 clam for a lower coastal city

Tough choice. I would settle in place just because it is huge and it would be a good place to even build Maoi statues then. Food heavy, medium production, commerce high.
 
Hi all,

one more ALC! great! ;)
I'm not an immortal player so my advice does not really count ...
I would go 1W : the point is that you will still have the hammer of the plain hill when producing your 2 workboats (obviously the 2 first things to build!). If you settle in place, you will have 2:hammers: from the plain hill and 1 for a forest and 2 (riverside hill) after first culture pop which make 3:hammers: before culture pop and then 4:hammers:. If you settle 1W, you immediately start with 4:hammers: for fast production of the workboats!!!
More over, 6 cottaged flood plains + 1 lake + 2 clams already make a bunch of food for the initial development. And you still have to food ressources for other cities with the pigs and clams ...
So 1w allows you to build WB faster and thus to benefit from the clams faster ...

Going 1W also makes you pop the hut which with luke could give you a scout ...

my 2:commerce:

Glouglou
 
Of course settling in place could mean you pop a tech from the hut. :)

I'd settle in place. That city screams GP farm. I'm not sure about the Maoi Statues, at least hold on until you have stone. You have enough great tiles to work that you don't need to work the water ones, and you'll also want specialists in it. National Epic + a later Maoi Statues sounds ok, but you could also go NE + Great Theater for the biggest and happiest of all capitals. :)
 
Definitely settle in place - plains hill! Long-term, you may want to move the capital and use this as a Moai city/scientist farm, but for now it's a great early game location.

Bearing that in mind, move the warrior 1S since settling will reveal the tiles moving him 1NW would. Might as well start exploring early before the barbs show up.

This is a strong start for Lincoln - tons of food and early commerce so you can research at a decent clip from the start and run a lot of specialists later. Thinking a bit longer term, you 'll want to cottage the floodplains since your natural surplus is going to be so high; that's not a huge priority at the start of the game though as the commerce from the clams will suit you fine for now, while you'll want to be working mines on the other 2 hills for production. Those FP won't see much action for a couple of thousand years at least.

I can't vouch for how the timings work out, but I'd start off by building 2 workboats and researching mining > bronze. If no bronze, then head for archery since you'll have all the worker techs you need for the immediate future. Juggle the tiles to get the first workboat built ASAP, then maximize growth to size 2 while working the improved clams, followed by adding a second hammer tile with the new citizen to get the second boat finished faster. Once you're size 2 working 2 clams, start on a worker to get chopping/mining on those hills.
 
Of course settling in place could mean you pop a tech from the hut. :)

I'd settle in place. That city screams GP farm. I'm not sure about the Maoi Statues, at least hold on until you have stone. You have enough great tiles to work that you don't need to work the water ones, and you'll also want specialists in it. National Epic + a later Maoi Statues sounds ok, but you could also go NE + Great Theater for the biggest and happiest of all capitals. :)

I was thinking that it was not possible to pop a tech when settling the city ... I don't remember if I read something about that in the forum ... maybe I'm just wrong but I think it is something like the city is not considered as built when the hut is popped ...
Actually I don't remember exactly about this point ... but I'm pretty sure It made me change my mind about popping hut when settling ... But I may be wrong ...
 
I do not think anyone has mentioned it here, but health could be an issue here. Settling 1W would include at least 1 and perhaps even 3 more flood plains in the BFC. I don't know the starting health at Emperor level, and there is obviously a lot of forests nearby (though settling 1W makes you lose 2 forests in the BFC, and I don't think you get one back), but this is something to consider. Health is probably not an issue on settling, but might be a restriction when growing (charismatic means happy is less of an issue anyway), or on how many forests can be chopped.
 
Settle in place, move warrior 1 NW.
 
Settle in place. That extra hammer from the plains hill will make a LOT of difference to your early fishing boats. Unlike an early worker only :hammers: will count there. And those clams will mean great :food: and :commerce: so fast early :science: (and a fast worker after one or two fishing boats due to the :food: surplus). I'd build a fishing boat first - after that kinda depends :lol:

Getting pottery early for cottaging the flood plains will be nice, but given barbs on Immortal I'd say archery is also a priority.
 
If you were a financial leader I would say move 1W. But since you are Philosphical and start with fishing/agricultre settle in palce to get those 3 clams and farm the floodplains. That's an instant GP farm, the pigs to the south can support a good second city.

Move the warrior 1NW

Food is no problem, techwise go mining/BW. If no accessable copper you are going to need hunting/archery for defense real fast. If you have copper beeline writing (wheel/pottery/writing)and chop out a library to get a SE up and going.

Good luck!
 
Yeah, move the warrior NW. I wouldn't recommend moving the settler, but settling in place because too many floodplains= bad. better to have them spread out, especially in the early game, when chopping is essential. Also, since you're getting clams next to you, that means that parts an inlet to a bigger body of water.

My two cents :D:D
 
Top Bottom