Football Thread No. 9

[holy king]

a shiny new thread.

Well, it was a great performance and a great result, but you got a lot more than justice. One offside goal, and a gimme on the third...



Bizarre decision by the ref to penalise Evra for playing the ball when his boot had come off, leading directly to the third goal.

Should make the second leg interesting

Not much I disagree with there, Warpus. AVB will be a very good manager, I expect. But, as you say, he just didn't know how to handle a bad run of results, especially with a bunch of prima donnas like you currently have at Chelsea. (Talented prima donnas, for sure, but the "me, me , me" mentality is a bit strong in many of them) Good luck to Di Matteo, someone who wasn't good enough for West Brom. Nice guy, and should be used to dealing with difficult situations, but he's not a top rank manager.

Moyes, though? I have a lot of time for him, but he's always done well with meagre budgets. Has he shown he can do well when the money is relatively free-flowing? I guess he's got a solid footballing brain and lots of good experience, and wouldn't be a bad person to try out. He always seems more likely to be the next Man U manager than the next Chelsea one, though, given that he'd be given enough time to develop into the role at Old Trafford.

Despite the offside goal, and a gimme on the third, Athletic deserved to win. In any case, the gimme you are saying is an infraction as I explain later, so we did not have to return the ball



That's not a bizarre decision, it is the law, a player without boot can not play the ball, so it is fault, no need to return the ball, players should know it.
It is a stupid law but is the law.

EDIT: BTW if we are going to talk about referee, please check this penalty (left side of the photo) that was not seen in first half, Llorente fell and referee decided it was his fault

Never mind that Urited's first goal came from a free kick where the ball was never stationary…

Hmm. I think you're on shaky ground looking at one isolated shirt pull given the tactics Athletic took of niggly fouls all game long, one which the ref could have easily taken a harder line on.

On the "bizarre decision", I just looked it up in the FIFA rules (and quoted it above). Maybe you have an alternative source - if so, why not quote it. The ref certainly appeared to gesture that he thought he had no option other than to award a free-kick, and he ought to know the rules, so I'm happy to be convinced. As I say though, the section I quoted is straight from FIFA's own rule book.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2011_12_en.pdf See page 65.


Or, in succinct Powerpoint format, see slide 4. http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_4_the_players_equipment_en_47415.pdf

It's not an isolated shirt pull, it's a two-handed pull from back and front a couple metres away from the goal.


Ruligs aside, I think two goals are more than Fergie's squad deserved tonight.

Heh. Like that's one which isn't broken a dozen times a game? You'll be laying down the line of foul throws next. Tak, you're looking to play devil's advocate as usual. Is this just because you think you don't actually have a team to support any more, cos the good news is that the 'Gers are still breathing (just). Let's check in at the Intensive Care Unit again tomorrow and see how they're doing

Unlike most Rangers fans I tend to be a stickler for the rules in football.

Why? I'll happily admit that the refereeing in general was dismal and Atheltic Bilbao's second goal was scored from an evident offside position. Aren't Manchester United the 'devils'?

Oooh, you're asking for it.

We have only won one game at home in Europe this season. That is very odd. We obviously have to play better than we have at home. If we are good enough then we can win in Bilbao.

2-0 and you're through, you can do it. But United keeping on the Unconvincible streak isn't good for them. Good play should get results, not the other way around. Now the team doesn't win and neither does it play well. I genuinely liked ManYoo between 2005-08, including their 7-1 thrashing of Rome, but it has to change.

Well we are bringing some new and younger players into the team, so they will take some time to become great players they will become.

It's probably too many new/young players being brought in at the one time. And I'm not sure Johnny Evans is premiership quality, never mind the level United need. To be fair, with a fit Vidic and Ferdinand, this would be a very strong team, and maybe 5 or 6 points clear in the Premiership. They still wouldn't be playing the same high quality attacking football as Takhisis is recalling though.

Anyway, Bilbao were good value for their win, and it creates a bit of interest in a mind-blowingly dull competition.

4th rule, page 20

The basic compulsory equipment of a player comprises the following separate
items:
• a jersey or shirt with sleeves – if undergarments are worn, the colour of the
sleeve must be the same main colour as the sleeve of the jersey or shirt
• shorts – if undershorts or tights are worn, they must be of the same main
colour as the shorts
• stockings
• shinguards
• footwear

page 21
If play is stopped by the referee to administer a caution:
the match is restarted by an indirect free kick taken by a player of the
opposing team from the place where the ball was located when the referee
stopped the match (see Law 13 – Position of free kick)


You are wellcome

 

[Quackers]

Saw Messi's 5 goals, just stunning. I am waaaay too young to ever watch Pele or Maradonna in action but I sincerely believe he is the greatest player of all time;p

 

[W|M]

Pelé never lost a game when paired up with Garrincha, so I think they're better than Messi, who has lost games regardless of who is on the pitch.

 

[Takhisis]

I'll quote Maradona and point out "Pelé debutó con un pibe".

 

[W|M]

Even at 17, he was the best player in the world.

 

[Quackers]

Pele played in a time where the general quality and fitness of footballers was objectively worse then today, therefore Messi, a player of exceptional caliber today, would be a GOD 50 years ago, 30 years ago, 20 years ago easily. I mean, for christ sake wasn't Maradonna snorting cocaine half his career?

 

[Verarde]

Heh. Maradonna made a cameo appearance on The Amazing Race, a US tv show where contestants race around the world, and they went to Argentina. He greeted them at the Pit Stop.


subbed.

 

[Takhisis]

Even at 17, he was the best player in the world.

"Pelé debutó con un pibe".

 

[dutchfire]

About having to wear shoes: I remember Milan Baros getting a yellow card for playing on without his shoe on in a qualifying match against the Netherlands.

 

[del62]

What I like most about messi, unlike so many of the superstars, is he plays with a smile on his face

 

[Takhisis]

Lolwut? I was watching and this wasn'0t the only big mistake the ref had, it was a penalty to each side as well.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

page 21 If play is stopped by the referee to administer a caution:
the match is restarted by an indirect free kick taken by a player of the
opposing team from the place where the ball was located when the referee
stopped the match (see Law 13 – Position of free kick)

You do realise that that quote is from the page on inspecting the player's equipment, yes? And they key point there is that it tells you what should be awarded if the referee stops play.

My point isn't that the referee awarded the wrong thing when he stopped play, but that there was no reason to stop play. I'm not arguing that it should be a United free-kick because an Athletic player should have penalised for standing on Evra and that caused him to lose his boot. Very clearly, it says that "If a player loses his footwear accidentally and immediately plays the ball and/or scores a goal, there is no infringement". It's normally interpreted as giving the player until the next break in play.

I'm happy if you claim that Athletic deserved to win (and have already agreed to such), but I don't understand why you would try to defend a ref's mistake like that just because it happened to favour your own team.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Hats off to Swansea. If not for a last minute OG against Chelsea, they would have beaten 3 of the top 4 at Liberty Stadium. They have been very strong at home this season - and now at 36 points, it's pretty safe to assume they have booked their place in the EPL for next year with a couple of months to spare.

 

[Josu]

You do realise that that quote is from the page on inspecting the player's equipment, yes? And they key point there is that it tells you what should be awarded if the referee stops play.

My point isn't that the referee awarded the wrong thing when he stopped play, but that there was no reason to stop play. I'm not arguing that it should be a United free-kick because an Athletic player should have penalised for standing on Evra and that caused him to lose his boot. Very clearly, it says that "If a player loses his footwear accidentally and immediately plays the ball and/or scores a goal, there is no infringement". It's normally interpreted as giving the player until the next break in play.

I'm happy if you claim that Athletic deserved to win (and have already agreed to such), but I don't understand why you would try to defend a ref's mistake like that just because it happened to favour your own team.

Because it was not a mistake, if Evra was having the ball in the moment that he lost the ball it would be a mistake, but he received the ball from a team mate some seconds after loosing the ball, hence it is not inmediatly.
Furthermore, I have asked two former spanish La Liga referees (One of them was international referee) and both told me the same, it was not a mistake.
You can say that the referee, failed in the second goal's offside, that did not show enough yellow cards, but this particular case was not a mistake.
I am not trying to defend my onw team, I claim that second goal was offside, that referee did not show enough yellow cards to our players, that in last week's La Liga match the referee failed in a "ghost goal" that favored us. But I do know that this Evra's particular case was not a mistake.
BTW, it is funny that you speak about "defend own team" while you are saying that the penalty to Llorente is an "Issolated pull", come on, in referee schools there is a photo of this issolated pool beside the word penalty

EDIT: In any case, for me there are 2 things pretty clear:
1) it was not a gimme, it may be a referee's mistake, we can discuss about it, but not a gimme
2) We did not received much more than justice. Based on what was seen on the pitch, it was a fair result.

 

[holy king]

comolli should just sack all the players and put ones in that actually have fun playing football.

those will probably lose against sunderland, but hey, so do the current ones, and at least nobody will have to watch eleven depressed men mindlessly running up and down a football pitch.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Everton can go ahead of Liverpool if they win the Derby on Tuesday. It's at Anfield so I can see it being a draw though

 

[Pangur Bán]

So, does the EPL suck now? Every side save Chelsea out of Champions League, apparently about to go out too. The top 4 ... 6 now ... are they worse than 3 years ago? Or just bad luck?

You've got to look at the City team and wonder how the likes of Napoli disposed of them, but that they did. Can't believe any English team 3 years ago + had better players than City have now ... just doesn't make sense.

 

[classical_hero]

It was City's first Champions League appearance, so they did not have the experience needed, so they will do better next time. United are bit of a basket case. Normally they are good at home, but they have only won one game in Europe at home, which is very un-United like, so I can't really explain that. But Chelsea and Arsenal are weaker this year.

 

[Quackers]

I think it was just plain bad luck tbh, our teams have superb squads and can go far, I don't think it is plausible that Europe has improved drastically over the summer.

 

[Takhisis]

Or maybe you lot just overperformed in the past couple years like the Unconvincibles reaching the final through the easiest route ever?