[FFH] - Miss Mahala and the Uncultured Boors

Mardoc

Warlord
Joined
Jan 3, 2002
Messages
139
Location
Philadelphia, US
So, having finished our first foray into the Fall from Heaven 2 modmod Erebus in the Balance, we decided to try another one. We figured the last one was a bit too easy, so here's our new scenario:

Mahala: Non-Culture Miss -> Play as Doviello with the mission of winning by conquest. We can't ever build a building that gives culture. The only culture enabled is from the palace and some free religion spread (since we can't avoid it). The only religion we can tech/adopt is the ones that don't give culture (CoE or RoK - the culture from the Holy City is fine). Since Mahala hates foreign culture too, we have to raze every city we capture from other civilizations.

The only exception, that we're still discussing (because I'm stubborn), is a few wonders, with restrictions.

Map Script: Pangaea
Sea Level: Low
Game Speed: Quick
Turn length: 30/20/10/10/etc.
Difficulty: Emperor
Civilization: Doviello
Leader: Mahala (Exp/Rai/Ing)
World Size: Large
Opponents: Twelve
Version: EitB v0008
Tech Trading: Off

Roster
Mardoc
Gaspar
Ichabod
Darrell
Ilios

We have our save (see Ilios' post here) - anyone who's free, feel free to grab it and get us started. If no one's done so by the time I'm free this evening, I'll do it myself. :). Just post a 'got it'.
 
I probably have time to give this a go in a few hours, up to you Mardoc whether you'd rather go first or me.

Did we discuss settling options on start one? I can't be arsed to parse back through the thread, but I'd settle here:



Beyond that, I'd probably look to pretty much grab key worker techs (Agri/Calendar in this case) then pretty much grab Education and BW. Pop out a settler for copper wherever it may be and maybe a few other ICS style settlements in the near area to improve happy cap. Beyond that, bazillion Sons of Asena, ready-go. Of course, Conquest at Education is totally not broken. ;)

Also, we really should have [EitB] in the thread title, or at least [FFH-EitB] if a large percentage of the purpose here is to draw attention to Sareln's modmod. :)
 
Agree with the settling. Try to farm some xp with Lucian too. Not that he's very useful, but it'll be nice to have him very promoted in the end.

Can the guy be upgraded, by the way?
 
I probably have time to give this a go in a few hours, up to you Mardoc whether you'd rather go first or me.
Let's race for it. Tonight's probably my best chance to play between now and Monday, but I don't particularly care if I'm first or second. If you grab it first, then just make sure you finish while I'm still awake ;).

Did we discuss settling options on start one? I can't be arsed to parse back through the thread, but I'd settle here:
Not much discussion, since people were talking about the other potential start instead. I think both Darrell and I are in agreement with you.

Beyond that, I'd probably look to pretty much grab key worker techs (Agri/Calendar in this case) then pretty much grab Education and BW. Pop out a settler for copper wherever it may be and maybe a few other ICS style settlements in the near area to improve happy cap. Beyond that, bazillion Sons of Asena, ready-go. Of course, Conquest at Education is totally not broken. ;)
Sounds about right. Just remember - we've got to raze with those Sons, so we'll need to mix in a few (cheap) settlers.
Also, we really should have [EitB] in the thread title, or at least [FFH-EitB] if a large percentage of the purpose here is to draw attention to Sareln's modmod. :)

:blush: Ooops. Can't change it without flagging down a mod; I don't know if it's that important.
 
Well - settling was a harder choice than I expected. But..ultimately I went with the PH picked out. Gold is stronger than Incense, but not enough stronger to spend more time travelling.

There's some pretty decent land out there to colonize, though!

First thought on naming scheme: Things that can be Broken.



T3 - Get some jewelry from the graveyard, and debate this little thing:

I...think I'll wait. Not when going worker-first, anyway, even with Lucian.

T4 - :cry::cry::cry:


You! It's your fault! You'll pay for this...you'll all pay...



Yep, we've already found the first of our targets. Not at war...yet.

T6 - What do you think? Should I do it?

 
Its T6? What difference does it make if you kill the scout? If you think getting the promotion is worth it, knock yourself out. But I don't know that I'd care enough. Surely we'll end up killing everyone eventually, but in the meantime I don't know that I'd want the Sidar to start a buildup.

And FWIW, I'd pop the well. Its just a SG, if we lose somehow we can always roll a new game. But I'm reckless like that. ;)
 
Its T6? What difference does it make if you kill the scout? If you think getting the promotion is worth it, knock yourself out. But I don't know that I'd care enough. Surely we'll end up killing everyone eventually, but in the meantime I don't know that I'd want the Sidar to start a buildup.

And FWIW, I'd pop the well. Its just a SG, if we lose somehow we can always roll a new game. But I'm reckless like that. ;)

Fair enough, we'll let it live. Was how I was leaning anyway - we can train Lucian on barbs easily enough.

T8 - Well, hello!


T10 - I may be too scared to pop the Well just yet...but this seems to be an obvious choice:


T13 - And it pays off...

I take the lizards, since it's certain they can survive just by running. Maybe Sandalphon's not ready for 3 axes on his border right now, too :)

Meanwhile, we meet more juicy targets...I mean neighbors

Keelyn was around here, I forgot to take the picture before moving the lizards out of harm's way:



T16 - Since I've been dared (and since we have more forces now to handle whatever happens...)


T18 - Huh, no wonder the Sidar didn't have any difficulties. I never knew that the axes from the event were so determined! Going to try to lure these guys into the desert and dispose of them.

T19 - Or, maybe not. Lucian, help!


T21- And we lose a lizard, already. I thought we'd have very good odds, defending in a hill forest, but apparently barbs can get lucky too. Retreat!



T22 - Hello, what's this? Another neighbor, and they haven't even bothered to say hi?


T24 - Brave, Brave, Sir Lucian! He was injured from fighting Lions, and apparently that means he's not willing to engage the axes. :rolleyes:


Well - this seems like a good point to break the report. Tune in next time, when our fearless heroes try Bradeline's again!
 
The expedition heads southward, while meanwhile a hearty bunch of settlers gathers in our capital to grab the area, after the heroes pacify the well.

Unfortunately, the guardian returns! The Scout puts up a good fight but is ultimately overcome.

Avenge him, Gaspar!



The Save
 
I'll play a little later.

Not sure about the city there. Given we're going to be running Conquest and not Agrarianism, that city won't have anything to feed it besides a 4/0/1 farm. One of the nice things about the changes in the mod - you have to consider food, which is pretty much irrelevant in base FFH. But yeah, not sure if that site is worth the trouble, though the commerce from double silk will certainly be welcome.

Thoughts, team?
 
Not sure about the city there. Given we're going to be running Conquest and not Agrarianism, that city won't have anything to feed it besides a 4/0/1 farm. One of the nice things about the changes in the mod - you have to consider food, which is pretty much irrelevant in base FFH. But yeah, not sure if that site is worth the trouble, though the commerce from double silk will certainly be welcome.

Thoughts, team?

We can, post-Mining, add the 2N grasslands as a farm. But no, I'm by no means certain that this should be next, I marked a number of other possibles (including a corn off the the east). I just was greedy for luxuries.

Edit: Ok, and it made a better story
 
Settling on the desert hill or on the plains silk seems to be better, in my opinion. We can take advantage of the capital culture in both cases.
 
Settling on the desert hill or on the plains silk seems to be better, in my opinion. We can take advantage of the capital culture in both cases.

I could be talked into ignoring the Ivory and going for the desert hill - what you don't see is the reason :lol:


There's also some sites in the north that could be pretty darn strong:
 
Totally slipped my mind here. I'll play tomorrow, though if someone wants to jump in so we're not running precisely the same turn order, that's cool too.
 
Lessee... 20 turns. Research is currently set to Education, due in 12t. I guess I'll keep that, swap to Apprenticeship and Conquest and then research Crafting en route to Mining. Exploration probably before BW. I'd probably have gone Crafting > Mining before AC > Education but whatever. I was originally intending to settle that gold city first but given we won't have Mining before the end of my turnset, I'll settle the corn/silk spot. That gold tile would have made the rest of this research a lot less painful, though. Not to mention being able to do some mines at the capital.

And uh, nothing personal but if you planned to plant in the south... WHY AREN'T OUR WORKERS FARMING THEIR COMPLETELY USELESS FARM IN THE SOUTH RATHER THAN THE NORTH! :banghead:

Ok, thinking through it some more. 2t to finish settler. 4t for 2 more Beastmen. 6t for settler. Even if I want to squeeze another worker and another Beastman in there, we need Mining ASAP. So I'm going to swap now. Micro for commerce since we're more limited there than hammers atm and go ahead and move the workers towards the southern farm. I'll have 1 farm the southern FP while the other improves tiles for the new city.

Decide to take a shot at killing the scorp with Lucian for the XP boost on a 60% shot. Mostly because so what if he dies. He wins, and gets 6 XP. Have him start popping the Well again. Thus ends T31.

T32: The Beastmen exploring the lair on Sheelba's border is about to die:



Decide to heal up Lucian before popping the Well again. Take C

T33: Oddly the Lizard didn't attack. This Skellie might, though:



Settler is complete, onto a Beastman. Kill a Lion with the Lizard. Re-christened Kyan in honor of his Dwarf v. Lizard hijinks from FFH7.

T34: Beastman gets mutated... to weak. :( Shuffling units...

T35: Amazingly, the Beastman somehow fends off the lizardman at weak. I take C1/G1 and have him heal on the hill before taking another shot at the lair.

T36: Glass founded, after fighting the temptation to name the city Television after my currently broken brand new television. :cry: Start on a Beastman.



T37: ...and maybe Bradeline's Well just doesn't want to be explored:



Did Sareln remove Mistforms from the early game big bad results? Here's hoping. :lol: Anyway, Lucian disposes of Charface. Crafting in, onto Mining, due in 7t. Beastman in the south is definitely going to bite it this turn.

T38: Yup, weak Beastman dies. If there's a Mistform, it didn't attack anything. Working max commerce adds a turn to the Settler, but we need Mining more than we need the Settler, particularly as we can't improve the silk either. Kyan cleans out a goblin by Glass and both he and Lucian move inside borders to heal. Then we'll see if we can pop Meshabber of Dis from the well. ;)

T39: :coffee:

T40: :sleep:

T41: Sheelba pops her worldspell, grabbing a gobbo from the fort in our borders. Corn farm completes at Glass.

T42: Notice this:



Debate heavily the merits of aggression versus settling elsewhere. On the one hand, I've been prepping to settle this site basically for the last 11t. And there's not a lot of choices. There's the sheep/furs site Mardoc posted (though 1N of the spot he had marked) and there's a mediocre Reagents/FP/2 Oasis no real food site in the west (shown below.) Beyond that, nothing. On the other hand, I'm not so sure we want to get into a war just yet, at least not pre-Conquest and preferably not pre-BW and almost definitely not pre-"Knowing where the copper is".



I think there's enough debate here that I'm going to pause for feedback. Kyan and Lucian are currently healing in Glass, though they certainly can pull out - I believe both are healthy next turn. Kyan and Lucian are both C3. I think the options as I see them are:

  • Make a reckless attack with our 3 beastmen once that stack hits flatland.
  • Hold position, attack city with the 5 units after its founded. Downside here is City attack/defense penalties/bonuses come into play.
  • Forget about the Gold/Corn site and go settle the Reagents spot (pointless to found furs/sheep just yet as we have neither AH nor Hunting.) Then come back after building up a bit and raze the Sidar city and replant there later. That gold is going to be pretty critical to our teching, I think though.

Here's a copy of the save if you guys want to poke around. I'll finish my set after input.
 
Well, I think we should declare war. You don't even need to attack his settling stack. Just fortify the units in the hills nearby and I think there's a chance Sandalphon will withdraw the stack on his own. Just look at how perpentach badly expanded after we declared war on him early on in the previous game.

If he settles the city, start moving our powerful units next to it. When Mining comes in showing where's copper, we rethink our position. If there's copper in a decent city spot, just settle it with our next settler and make peace/whatever with Sandalphon. If there's not, try to raze his gold city.

We could also settle 2N, 1W of the gold, in a very good spot that can work the gold, furs, foodplain, sheeps. I doubt Sandalphon's city will be able to compete with our capital culture so soon.
 
Okay, decided to go ahead and start the war by killing his scout. I debated popping the world spell, but let's see what he does...



Kill the scout, leave the other units in position.

T43: Hurl 2 beastmen into his stack on flat ground, losing one while redlining his warrior, killing the other. Why? I dunno, seemed a good idea at the time. I decide to leave Kyan in Glass while moving Lucian to harass Celo. Maybe we can get some pillage gold?

T44: Mining in, onto Exploration. Where is copper you ask?



Looks like Celo will have to be razed to get that spot. But that's probably where the next settler should go.

T45: Holy ballsy, batman. Look where Sandalphon settled:



Well, here goes nothing. Rego-style:

Slightly damaged C1/Shock beast vs. healthy unpromoted warrior @84.4%: WIN
Slightly damaged C1/G1 beast vs. wounded C2 warrior @ 72.6%: WIN

Screw you, Sandy:



What's that? You play too risky, Gaspar? Yeah, what of it? :lol: I decide to christen our city razing beastman Lewwyn, patron saint of idiotic rushes. ;)

I really want to dial another worker in the capital, but I think there's no choice but to go Beastman, given that'll recklessly lost one and we're at war.

T46: We get the healing constellation event, which is timely. I set one of the beastmen towards Celo and Lewwyn to heal on the new city spot. I figure, might as well take this reckless thing all the way. Lucian makes it into Sidar lands this turn.

T47: Exploration in, debate between finishing Education and going to BW or even Hunting, for furs or AH to feed the following cities. I decide to put us on Education since we can use Ingenuity to cheaply upgrade Beastmen to Sons once BW is in. But mostly just because the beakers are already started there. I think AH is probably a better choice so I won't be offended if whomever is next changes it. Saving gold regardless.

Going to bang out one more Beastmen in the cap before starting a worker. Glass also completes a beastman, I start it on another.

T48: Kyan kills a Goblin. Lucian pillages a Sidar reagents plantation for 38g, giving us enough to turn research back on. New city founded. In honor of our (Mardoc & I's) combined weedy start, I name the new city Openings. :lol:



T49: Cap finished Beast, onto a new worker. Lucian and new warrior outside Sidar cap. Lucian is getting 75% odds on attacking the top warrior in Celo, so I attack and kill him.

T50: Lucian is at 17 xp and due a promo. I debate heavily between Shock and March. Ultimately decide shock since we're fighting nothing but warriors but now that he's highly promoted enough I'd rather not get him killed so both he and the Beastman are healing outside Celo. Openings is working the gold mine which was pre-improved until we can get the corn up. Figured it was worth delaying growth. Anyway, everything is moved, but I'll leave hitting end turn to the next player.

Here's a shot of Glorious Mahalia:



and demos, for giggles:



Here's your save.
 
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