Nobles' Club LXXVIII: Cyrus of Persia

Haven't done a NC in a while, and I seem to be stuck on Noble >_< Maybe this game will help me get out of my rut.
Epic Speed, Huts On :mischief:

Spoiler :

Since I wasn't feeling particularly adventurous when I started this file, I decided to SIP. All the food and those hills looked like they'd make a pretty strong capital.

Spoiler :


I was rewarded for my lack of kahones in turning huts on, as by turn 2 I had popped two scouts from goody huts :p My army of three scouts quickly amassed a large amount of gold from the remaining huts, and after discovering some horsies in my BFC, I decided it would be a shame to let this oppourtunity go to waste! My begining tech path looked like this:
AH -> Wheel -> Mining -> BW
And shortly I was ready to take out Monty, my closest neighbor. The war lasted around 4 turns, and in 2050 BC, the Aztecs were no more. I moved onto Shaka next, and due to his REXing, he had very few units guarding his 4 cities. I razed only one, leaving me with a grand total of 5 cities from my conquests. I'm pretty far ahead in land area, here's a culture map:

Spoiler :


After Shaka's death in 1025, I decided to call it quits for a bit. Not sure what I'm going to do next. I would like to take out another civ, but I don't know if my economy can survive the hit of 3+ more cities. I'm leaning towards some economy building at the moment, but I could easily be swayed into doing something a little more "productive" ;)

Persepolis:
Spoiler :



Advice, Comments, Critique? I know I didn't post that much info, but my cities are mostly producing archers for some defense. I will have to designate cities' roles later.
 
With lucky-huts turned on, you are basing a lot of your games around early luck. So that could explain some things... It can either go very good for you, or quite bad.
 
Advice, Comments, Critique? I know I didn't post that much info, but my cities are mostly producing archers for some defense. I will have to designate cities' roles later.

Is there a reason for teching sailing? It has minimal if not zero use on this map. Also since you are playing Noble, the game shouid be nearly done by 0BC with Immortals if you are playing a war game. Specially on epic.
 
Thanks for the tips... :goodjob:

I think maybe some of my workers are even automated.

Hehe, you know what, I have found that automated workers - more often than not - build the correct improvements (I think the city-priorities affect their decisions), and you can restrict things like chopping in the game options. I like the freedom it gives me to focus on the game-experience itself with MUCH faster turns. Don't like micro-management.

I actually have a theory that it's possible to kill four AIs

My problem always seems to be that I start rushing too late... around 1,000 BC, usually... it's always effective, because by that time, I usually have 4 cities pumping out special units. I keep my 2:3 city/worker ratio, and I try to chop as much as necessary; I even fore-go Granaries, but I just don't get there as quickly as I'd like... any tips on rushing fast?
 
And why is it religion isn't spreading...

Spoiler :
I noticed in my game, Monty had 4 Holy Cities! I took out Shaka first, but my rush was too late for a second AI. I had a bunch of Immortals left and I was starting to pump out Cats, but Mayo DoW'ed me and then Monty too.
 
Hehe, you know what, I have found that automated workers - more often than not - build the correct improvements (I think the city-priorities affect their decisions), and you can restrict things like chopping in the game options. I like the freedom it gives me to focus on the game-experience itself with MUCH faster turns. Don't like micro-management.

I think this is fine through at least Monarch. Worker automation, if you do the things you say&#8212;in particular not changing old improvements, and using the city governor to inform improvements&#8212;is not too bad. You'll even find an Immortal game of mine on here where I was scolded for automating workers. (mostly because I thought I was absurdly far ahead)

But to win those hard games, you'll need to be making decisions on a lower level than "this is a production city" vs. "this is a commerce city", or "chop now" vs. "chop later". You need to be deciding whether to put a chop into a settler or save it for the Great Library. You need to decide how many cottages you want some city to work before stagnating on mines. If you have a whip coming, you need enough farms available to grow back. None of these things can be addressed as long as your workers are automated, so you're really giving up a huge amount of oomph in your strategy when you make such a decision.

Don't think of it as micro-management, think of it as fingering all of the notes of the chords implied by a given bassline... or a suitable metaphor informed by your other interests.

My problem always seems to be that I start rushing too late... around 1,000 BC, usually... it's always effective, because by that time, I usually have 4 cities pumping out special units. I keep my 2:3 city/worker ratio, and I try to chop as much as necessary; I even fore-go Granaries, but I just don't get there as quickly as I'd like... any tips on rushing fast?

Well, depending on the situation, 2:3 might be too many or too few workers. In a rush, I would tend to think that it's usually too many, unless you have plenty of forest or a high happy cap and reason to grow.

If you're talking about a chariot rush, 4 cities is probably too many. A settler is 100 hammers, realizable with the whip, and if that city won't pay itself back in a reasonable timeframe, better (for the rush) to have not settled it at all. If you want to settle that many cities pre-rush, probably better to go with horse archers. Though it might still be reasonable with immortals, as they're just so good...

I guess the biggest tip would be to try a rush on some map, and just keep trying again for earlier attack times. Cut settlers. Cut workers. Cut early city growth. Whip heavily when appropriate. Work forests when appropriate. Sacrifice everything but pure production and timing. (and, of course, researching your rush techs)

I highly recommend this AbsoluteZero video to get in the right state of mind for a rush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9eWTi0o6Q
 
I just gave a shot at a fast conquest on Noble/epic. With more whipping this can be done much earlier.
Spoiler :


I have seen this done on deity GOTM a while back. Just awsome/gutsy play by Akot(I think) where he DoWed each AI as soon as he had 2 immortals for each civ and denied them metals.
 
My first NC game. I usually play Prince but went with the Noble save.

Spoiler :
Avoided spoilers but planned from the start to rush Immortals. When the horse popped up in my BFC... :D

Wiped out Mao at 2520BC, Monty at 2200, then Shaka at 1040. Stabilized a bit and then rolled Lincoln at 200AD. Nothing but Immortals, I only saw a couple of spears the whole time.

Capped Charlie at 820AD with some Mace/Sword along with my Immortals. By this time Rome had Praets so I settled a couple of cities and let my HRE cities come out of revolt for the Domination win in 1000AD.




I am not used to small crowded maps so this was fun. Need to work on my rush econ, I could probably have won much earlier but made some mistakes that had me stuggling to stay out of strike.
 
Monty DOW on me:wallbash: as a side note, spot what's ironic on the pic below...blatantly obvious what it is though:lol:

I went with AH>Wheel>bee line to BW

I played Monarch with huts on, got lucky and got mysticism...I like expanding my borders so I built Stonehenge and also that each city I conquer there's already a monument for that city, making the occupation of my conquered territory whole lot easier. I knew I had to get that Copper resource, so it was obvious I DOW China. Right now I'm on turn 150-ish took 2 of Monty's cities(including his capital)...what hella sucks was when I pacified Tenochitlan even with the free monument, when the city expanded it didn't expand enough to have the Iron inside my borders. One thing that baffled me was when Shaka had SOD by Shanghai and I checked up on him and he said WHEOOHRN when I checked if he wanted to DOW somebody....I seriously thought it was me. Surprise, surprise!!! He used OB with me to DOW on Lincoln, W-T-F?:confused:


oh and I'm a peacemonger by choice but heard you can't really win with that type of style on the harder difficulties i.e. immortal, deity
 

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Prince Domination 1826

Spoiler :
Took me some time to actually finish the game, but with Tenochwhatchamacallit and Beijing occupied 70 turns in, the rest of it was just a formality. Final score blew away my Hammurabi effort too, though such is the nature of domination victories. But a decent confidence booster :) I still get the feeling I could have done this so much faster if I were good at war :( I clearly had an overwhelming strength advantage but I struggle to leverage it...
 
This seems sorta broken. Gonna play it on Monarch/Normal.
I don't consider it broken for the Noble-level players the series is aimed at. I almost always ensure the UU's strategic resource is within range of the first likely couple of cities; sometimes the RNG puts it there, and sometimes I add it. I have only a vague memory of maybe one exception; perhaps the most recent Ragnar had iron a little further away than that.
 
Spoiler resource placement :

Well, it gets a lot easier when it's directly in the BFC. Even if it requires a 2nd nearby city to snag it becomes a bigger challenge. Also add in the fact that it's pangea, allowing for cavalry lolstomps after capturing all that land.
 
Apologies for the necro. Immortal/Normal Turn 67 1320 BC
Spoiler :
Like most everyone else, I destroyed Shaka and Montezuma before they could become nuisances. In doing so, I have six cities and I'm hemorrhaging 12 gold per turn at 0%. The RNG loves me though; they founded Hinduism and Buddhism, respectively. Two Great Prophets will get my economy back on track in a hurry, but in the meantime, I've got about 10 turns before my guys go on strike. I'm going to build TGW to within one turn of completion, then 'mids. Tech wise, I have Agriculture, Hunting, Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Mining, Bronze Working, Writing, and Pottery. I'm almost done with Meditation to get a city with both religions and then I'm planning on Priesthood so I can generate some priests. You need BAT mod for my save.
 

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Apologies for reviving an old(ish) game and thread. :)

Noble / normal: 150 BC conquest.
Spoiler :
Thought I’d take this one out for a run on noble / normal to see if I could get a BC conquest victory and, to my surprise, managed to get it done. :)

Started by SIP and teching AH > TW for the pigs, to check for horses and access immortals. Initial builds went worker > warrior. With the warrior in and horses in the BFC, I did a little queue micro, switching between a barracks and 2nd worker to ensure growth onto improved tiles. 2nd worker then joined 1st worker chopping and mining to max production at happy cap. To enable chopping, tech went mining > BW post TW. Mysticism was next - to allow the building of a monument in the capital and leverage CHAR to work an extra tile. Save for the odd worker to ensure we could always road to the next target, the capital’s subsequent builds went *immortal (and later *HA) until we were 0GPT at 0% slider, with 0 gold in the bank.

Initial scouting revealed numerous AI nearby. Decided on Monty as the first target because he was (i) annoyed at us for no reason and (ii) a unit spammer. He also had a capital that could be connected by a river running from Persepolis to the NW. With that in mind, tech went fishing > sailing and then pottery > writing to allow access to granaries and libraries in the new cities.

Whilst about 6 immortals finished Monty, the capital continued to build a second stack destined for Shaka. In the event, the battle hardened immortals that had survived the Monty campaign – each with an extra promo thanks to the CHAR trait (since the barracks gave them 3XP to start with) - joined this second stack for a two pronged attack on Shaka.

From there, the capital spammed a few more immortals and the stack of some 16 swept NE to wipe out AC. As was the case with Shaka, a combination of attacking AC in two separate stacks – the first designed to take a city holding copper – and some luck I’m sure, meant that I saw no whipped spears IIRC.

With the next targets Charlie and Mao being PRO, tech then went HBR > archery to open up access to HAs and stables for extra XP. (With the CHAR trait, barracks, stables and a couple of settled GGs allowed for production of 3 promo eligible HAs out of the gate.) Having produced a couple of HAs though, the economy hit the three zero level mentioned above. As a result, even the capital (along with the captured capitals) built infra at this stage – purely to prevent strike – and ran specialists to keep tech nudging towards alpha (and allow for a small detour to masonry to access stone). I also chose this moment to begin building TGW (which still hadn’t gone) and the mids in the capital to keep barbs at bay and raise the happy cap. Eventually alpha arrived and the captured capitals switched to building research to get to currency whilst the capital finished its wonders.

Meanwhile, Charlie and Mao fell in quick succession – Mao still only had Beijing when he was invaded – but he did at least manage to whip the first and only spear seen in the game. From there, tech went currency > CoL, with captured capitals building wealth where necessary to keep the economy afloat. As you can see from the save, courthouses are now going down / being chopped in to help the economy once and for all.

Lincoln fell not long after, the speed of the attack helped – as in all cases – by using at least two dedicated workers to road in to the next target from the last captured capital.


Comment about the map.
Spoiler :
Congratulations dalamb! :goodjob: IMHO, that map provides the noble gamer with a terrific opportunity to practice the war economy (ie. in which the spoils of war provide the cash to fund research). In addition, it also gives them a great chance IMHO to experience (i) just how many units it’s possible to build before you HAVE to build infra to prevent strike and (ii) how to use building research and then wealth to dig your economy out of a hole. Great job! :)
 

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