SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Not much to say, finished 7-8 more turns depending on your perspective. Am 2 turns from gunpowder at 100%. We can flip a tech to english fore 190 gold and a tech to vikings for 180 gold. Even better, they can both be currency. I say we do it so we can rock on through at 100% to finish the final techs we need.
Pretty much everywhere is nearing the finish of forges. if they have it. max 7 turns.
heroic epic finishes this turn. I actually think we should slip moai into sweet sheep as well. Sweet can build it in 6 turns (so about the time we'll be building curs). We'll get a 150% boost on building it with forge, OR, and Stone, so it costs 100 hammers. We won't whip sweet since it's a unit producer every 2-3 turns, and every hammer it produces gets more than doubled going into a unit since it gets the heroic epic bonus, forge bonus, and police state bonus. It pays for itself in 20 turns. Any sea tile worked by Sweet sheep becomes 2.5H (1 from Moais, +150% bonus from HE, Forge, Police state) We work at least 2 sea tiles/turn given seafood=extra 5h/turn.
Anywho, other stuff, shaka is expanding into the middle, he looks like a nice first target. We're roaded near him and can keep roading so we get is cities as position holding areas to maintain our roads
Worker north of topeka is completing road system from silver tao into pipeline. Planning to get a chariot out of copper city then build worker there. TM in 4 turns.
Pretty much everywhere is nearing the finish of forges. if they have it. max 7 turns.
heroic epic finishes this turn. I actually think we should slip moai into sweet sheep as well. Sweet can build it in 6 turns (so about the time we'll be building curs). We'll get a 150% boost on building it with forge, OR, and Stone, so it costs 100 hammers. We won't whip sweet since it's a unit producer every 2-3 turns, and every hammer it produces gets more than doubled going into a unit since it gets the heroic epic bonus, forge bonus, and police state bonus. It pays for itself in 20 turns. Any sea tile worked by Sweet sheep becomes 2.5H (1 from Moais, +150% bonus from HE, Forge, Police state) We work at least 2 sea tiles/turn given seafood=extra 5h/turn.
Anywho, other stuff, shaka is expanding into the middle, he looks like a nice first target. We're roaded near him and can keep roading so we get is cities as position holding areas to maintain our roads
Worker north of topeka is completing road system from silver tao into pipeline. Planning to get a chariot out of copper city then build worker there. TM in 4 turns.
Good work jay we seem to be well on track.
We have the GS and you traded for feudalism too for vassalage. (That is rags favourite civic!! result!!) Seems like the AI will all have longbows now. Their highest military power is 295k. I assume that is for one part of a team?
Religion need to go to one more city really. Those tech trades for gold look good. It may even shave 1 turn off the lib date. We are slightly behind other SGOTM teams army wise but we have not started curs yet. I am guessing we will catch up rather quickly.
Looking at resource page 2 Ai seem to have 6 gold to trade for resources. Can we do this soon?
Looking at cities. We have forest to chop. We could chop 1-2 near topeka for a stables or into curs. 1-2 forest near silver city to speed up forge. Also forest to chop near pigs/fish/clams city which is looking great at size 8!!
We still need to start the forge in marble city.
So MS wonder in sheep or a stables? tough call. It will gain 3 base hammers from MS. So maybe 1-2 extra with bonuses.
I wonder if we should be working a few more specialists. I would like Topeka to get it's next great person before the golden age. If it is a GE we could use that for a wonder.
The road to shaka. I wonder if we should of gone around that city. If the border pops our road is dead in the water.
Where is the wizard? There are 2 clumps of mountains. Time to search each 1 middle north of map. 1 south of map.
Maps - Can we not trade indians maps yet???
Lymond up next? I suggest 5-6 turn till point where we are ready to start whipping army. We need to be clear how aggressive we intend to be there.
We have the GS and you traded for feudalism too for vassalage. (That is rags favourite civic!! result!!) Seems like the AI will all have longbows now. Their highest military power is 295k. I assume that is for one part of a team?
Religion need to go to one more city really. Those tech trades for gold look good. It may even shave 1 turn off the lib date. We are slightly behind other SGOTM teams army wise but we have not started curs yet. I am guessing we will catch up rather quickly.
Looking at resource page 2 Ai seem to have 6 gold to trade for resources. Can we do this soon?
Looking at cities. We have forest to chop. We could chop 1-2 near topeka for a stables or into curs. 1-2 forest near silver city to speed up forge. Also forest to chop near pigs/fish/clams city which is looking great at size 8!!
We still need to start the forge in marble city.
So MS wonder in sheep or a stables? tough call. It will gain 3 base hammers from MS. So maybe 1-2 extra with bonuses.
I wonder if we should be working a few more specialists. I would like Topeka to get it's next great person before the golden age. If it is a GE we could use that for a wonder.
The road to shaka. I wonder if we should of gone around that city. If the border pops our road is dead in the water.
Where is the wizard? There are 2 clumps of mountains. Time to search each 1 middle north of map. 1 south of map.
Maps - Can we not trade indians maps yet???
Lymond up next? I suggest 5-6 turn till point where we are ready to start whipping army. We need to be clear how aggressive we intend to be there.
No Maoi imo, we still want to whip sheeps. A Cur in 1 instead of 2 turns matters to us.
If there is spare stuff to build, probably go for colliseums. Then we can have almost infinite whipping with the culture slider. And Budd misseing in a few cities
We can make use of OR before it runs out, so if after GP noone trades HBR still we should self tech it, and get stables in the best whipping cities for 3 promotions Curs. Can also build a HA then to almost finished, it will switch to a Curs build with MT
Let's make sure we go for all gold/turn ressource trades so we can tech at 100% for a while.
Currency for 180g looks good.
If there is spare stuff to build, probably go for colliseums. Then we can have almost infinite whipping with the culture slider. And Budd misseing in a few cities
We can make use of OR before it runs out, so if after GP noone trades HBR still we should self tech it, and get stables in the best whipping cities for 3 promotions Curs. Can also build a HA then to almost finished, it will switch to a Curs build with MT
Let's make sure we go for all gold/turn ressource trades so we can tech at 100% for a while.
Currency for 180g looks good.
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I will post my thoughts later tonight
General thought on Maoi is that it is not worth it at this point. We need to put all our resources into getting this war going asap. Every second (ugh..turn) counts and we still need to get up some stables.
General thought on Maoi is that it is not worth it at this point. We need to put all our resources into getting this war going asap. Every second (ugh..turn) counts and we still need to get up some stables.
Good to see you taking control Lymond!! What took you??
I think you are figting the odds again Jay. Question is what build will help us next in each city.
Stables for extra xp? MS for hammers?? Colloseums for culture slider? More units like hammers into HA/Chariots. Overall we need to get the war started the turn MT arrives. If we can get hammers into some HA so it converts to curs straight away it means we can whip on T1 of MT tech arriving.
Overall I will wait to see what lymond has to say before deciding
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Maoi is fine in the right situation, but we'll just be whipping off those hammers anyway. I guess we could use whip OF from curs into it to get it up eventually.
Anyone think the Vikes might be good to take first just to get the GLH along the way. We will hurt for money once we start taking a lot of cities, so the extra commerce would be good. It's not bad strategically either to take out the East Witches first.
Anyone think the Vikes might be good to take first just to get the GLH along the way. We will hurt for money once we start taking a lot of cities, so the extra commerce would be good. It's not bad strategically either to take out the East Witches first.
we will never whip away the hammers from our 2 seafood resources we will always work, which is what I calculated in how pays for itself in 20 turns. We don't have anything else to build in Sweet sheep at the moment. We can't build stables right now. There is no better build than Moai statues right now. I knew y'all wouldn't like it because the opinion of this team seems to be that anything that helps a city is, at this point useless
You have no argument against the math or the fact there's nothing else to build in Sweet sheep.
Tell me what you would like to build in sweet sheep next?
I'm essentially giving the team something like 400-500 free hammers and am being told that it's not worth it. Whatever, fine, build an aqueduct or walls in Sweet sheep, that should be most useful :suicide:
You have no argument against the math or the fact there's nothing else to build in Sweet sheep.
Tell me what you would like to build in sweet sheep next?
I'm essentially giving the team something like 400-500 free hammers and am being told that it's not worth it. Whatever, fine, build an aqueduct or walls in Sweet sheep, that should be most useful :suicide:
vranasm
Deity
vassalage or theo give the same benefit as stables everywhere (just saying)...
Btw when we're at it vassalage isn't actually that bad of civic since it offers free troops support, the only problem being we will lose a bit of hammers in capital (I think the commerce is not worth the talk, since we didn't built capital that way).
We could run wealth a bit longer and not "waste" hammers on stables if we calc with Vass.
I would aim for the GLH L. We saw it last game. Teams didn't have GLH and PD went straight for GLH.
GLH is obsolete with Corporations and that is something that is optional for a long time, we could go a long way with cuirs->cavs->cavs+airships.
Btw when we're at it vassalage isn't actually that bad of civic since it offers free troops support, the only problem being we will lose a bit of hammers in capital (I think the commerce is not worth the talk, since we didn't built capital that way).
We could run wealth a bit longer and not "waste" hammers on stables if we calc with Vass.
I would aim for the GLH L. We saw it last game. Teams didn't have GLH and PD went straight for GLH.
GLH is obsolete with Corporations and that is something that is optional for a long time, we could go a long way with cuirs->cavs->cavs+airships.
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@V - we don't have Feud. Theo is a possibility, but we don't have much dominant religion spread.
I agree that we are not ideally setup for Bureau, but there is some commerce in Topeka. We might consider Police State as well.
Yeah, I doubt we even consider teching Corporation. We will probably be done with teching after Astro, unless we go for Rifling.
OK....I've got some questions and ideas:
First of all, we are going to hopefully get a GS to bulb most of Lib next turn and then take MT. That leaves GP and HBR as the 2 techs we need. HBR will be a 1 turn tech. I say we finish Lib - probably 1t after bulb and then grab HBR to build stables and HAs for upgrade later when GP comes in.
Now, what I'm having trouble understanding is why we need caste. Yeah, there is a research boost and more GPs, but what do we really need at this stage.
I think a) we need the whip now to get these cities ready b) we need to decide on a civic change this turn that may very well be our last one unless we build the Taj. However, I think the Taj will just be a distraction at this point.
Some cities are about set, but I think we can whip a few to finish out forges, barracks, stables and get HE up. (JB - Sweet Sheep needs to finish forge, build HE and a stable before it will soon be focused on units. No time for Maoi at all)
I really do think we need at least a couple more workers and I'd really like to get that spot settled up north which I think can be productive fairly quickly. We need to fill out all the land anyway. Once we get the war machine going, we will probably want a dedicated settler pump to fill out land - mainly in the center area.
We are real close tech wise to where we need to be for the attack, but without slavery are cities are not going to be ready to go.
We can make up for lack of caste by building wealth and running scientists in large cities that have most of their infra. It's really a balancing game.
That's my take on it. Sorry if I'm off since I'm get re-acclimated, but I really think we need to be aggressive with getting cities ready for mass Cur rockage.
My tentative plan would be to switch back to Slavery this turn to avoid anarchy. Whip infra in cities that need it and get out a couple more workers and possibly a settler. Finish Nat, bulb Lib and finish, tech HBR>Gunpowder and build a few HAs. After GP, we should run 0% tax for a while, but head towards Astro. Maybe some trades will open up.
Slavery is the only way I feel we will be ready to roll the turn GP is finished. Oh...and I check, switching to slavery will not affect finishing Nat and the current GS.
I agree that we are not ideally setup for Bureau, but there is some commerce in Topeka. We might consider Police State as well.
Yeah, I doubt we even consider teching Corporation. We will probably be done with teching after Astro, unless we go for Rifling.
OK....I've got some questions and ideas:
First of all, we are going to hopefully get a GS to bulb most of Lib next turn and then take MT. That leaves GP and HBR as the 2 techs we need. HBR will be a 1 turn tech. I say we finish Lib - probably 1t after bulb and then grab HBR to build stables and HAs for upgrade later when GP comes in.
Now, what I'm having trouble understanding is why we need caste. Yeah, there is a research boost and more GPs, but what do we really need at this stage.
I think a) we need the whip now to get these cities ready b) we need to decide on a civic change this turn that may very well be our last one unless we build the Taj. However, I think the Taj will just be a distraction at this point.
Some cities are about set, but I think we can whip a few to finish out forges, barracks, stables and get HE up. (JB - Sweet Sheep needs to finish forge, build HE and a stable before it will soon be focused on units. No time for Maoi at all)
I really do think we need at least a couple more workers and I'd really like to get that spot settled up north which I think can be productive fairly quickly. We need to fill out all the land anyway. Once we get the war machine going, we will probably want a dedicated settler pump to fill out land - mainly in the center area.
We are real close tech wise to where we need to be for the attack, but without slavery are cities are not going to be ready to go.
We can make up for lack of caste by building wealth and running scientists in large cities that have most of their infra. It's really a balancing game.
That's my take on it. Sorry if I'm off since I'm get re-acclimated, but I really think we need to be aggressive with getting cities ready for mass Cur rockage.
My tentative plan would be to switch back to Slavery this turn to avoid anarchy. Whip infra in cities that need it and get out a couple more workers and possibly a settler. Finish Nat, bulb Lib and finish, tech HBR>Gunpowder and build a few HAs. After GP, we should run 0% tax for a while, but head towards Astro. Maybe some trades will open up.
Slavery is the only way I feel we will be ready to roll the turn GP is finished. Oh...and I check, switching to slavery will not affect finishing Nat and the current GS.
vranasm
Deity
Didn't check current save, but if there is an AI with Feud we could trade for it...
Feud opens guilds->banking anyway and I think we will want to go to cavs. Not sure we will battle this out with Cuirs only.
Feud opens guilds->banking anyway and I think we will want to go to cavs. Not sure we will battle this out with Cuirs only.
Pointless going GLH. If we attack the vikings the indians will close borders with us. We have very few foreign trade routes really. We will be adopting the vikings favourite civic anyway so we will get them to pleased and could bribe them into war soon??
I would suggest Shaka/mansa first as they are ahead tech wise. We don't want a monster team Ai with rifles anytime soon.
@ Lymond we do have feud jay traded for it. Our religion is spread to all but 1 major city. get with it Lymond!!!
Civics pol state, vass, slavery, theol! Those are our civics.
Lymond we already have the GS. Are you looking at the 450ad save????
Gotta dash but I think you need to look at the live save again.
I would suggest Shaka/mansa first as they are ahead tech wise. We don't want a monster team Ai with rifles anytime soon.
@ Lymond we do have feud jay traded for it. Our religion is spread to all but 1 major city. get with it Lymond!!!
Civics pol state, vass, slavery, theol! Those are our civics.
Lymond we already have the GS. Are you looking at the 450ad save????
Gotta dash but I think you need to look at the live save again.
vranasm
Deity
oh then building stables makes sense... we would run level 4 units out the gate...
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Wow...can't believe I was a save behind....derp!
Looks good. I will take a deeper look at the save later today and discuss a plan. Looks like it is pretty straightforward other than the serious lack of workers. Say what you will, but it IS a problem.
Looks good. I will take a deeper look at the save later today and discuss a plan. Looks like it is pretty straightforward other than the serious lack of workers. Say what you will, but it IS a problem.
Yeah right save would help. Lol
Worker wise remember we will be whipping like crazy. City wise we will need to be careful on upkeep costs.
At this stage pick cities where stables can be built in 4t. With civic most units will be 6xp+. Colloseums are useful if we go culture slider.
Worker wise remember we will be whipping like crazy. City wise we will need to be careful on upkeep costs.
At this stage pick cities where stables can be built in 4t. With civic most units will be 6xp+. Colloseums are useful if we go culture slider.
Wouldn't theaters be cheaper and more useful than colosseums for culture sliders? Either way I think it's too late to build colosseums in a bunch of cities.
I think stables are probably useful in Topeka, Sweet sheep, maybe Navajo, but that's about it for now.
I think commerce is less important now, I would say we stagger our way towards state property and rifles but that we could essentially turn off the slider once we get curs. Given how far the AI is behind I see no way for the military units to need to go beyond curs.
I think stables are probably useful in Topeka, Sweet sheep, maybe Navajo, but that's about it for now.
I think commerce is less important now, I would say we stagger our way towards state property and rifles but that we could essentially turn off the slider once we get curs. Given how far the AI is behind I see no way for the military units to need to go beyond curs.
Stables in 2-3 more cities sounds good. We need 3 more missionaries to complete the cities.
One thought on attacking rags/Indians first. Their cities would all get units whipped at level 6-7 due to the religion. I still think attacking Shaka first is the way as he is our worst enemy. Do we have any idea of what stacks they have?
I realise this plan was for last turnset but.
Religion is now spread to 6 cities.
We have slow built most of the forges but are missing stables but that was very much planned. If a city can't build a stable in 4 turns should it have a stable as My suggested?
I think JB built one more worker. 1 more maybe?
You and Bobby seem to think you can bulb lib without compass. You will need compass!! In 1 turn we may get a GS. If so we could bulb compass and then lib. Every turn counts!! if not save for machinery.
From machinery we can bulb PP/optics/then astronomy.
caste vs slavery in last turnset. We have saved pop for whipping curs. With civics the curs will be strong enough.
