SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

Mylene · Nov 1, 2011

I will run 100% from this turn on until we got Astro

It's logical, once we have it we never will have to worry again about beakers.
If we get in danger to go broke, we should have enough units to build some wealth.
But i think it will never happen, our wealth are the AI cities

Gumbolt · Nov 1, 2011

Mylene said:
I will run 100% from this turn on until we got Astro
It's logical, once we have it we never will have to worry again about beakers.
If we get in danger to go broke, we should have enough units to build some wealth.
But i think it will never happen, our wealth are the AI cities

In that case settle the 2 GS. We won't need a golden age once we have astronomy. You better get the war started on 2 fronts quickly as you will be burning loads of gold.

Keep trading techs for gold and extorting gold from the English/ Mongols.

The sooner we get astronomy the less worries we have. If we get a GM do a trade route.

Mylene · Nov 1, 2011

okay, will play soon

Mylene · Nov 1, 2011

still playing and only on the 3rd turn, omg i think i never spent so much time moving the same unit, workers and being superstitious ~~

lymond · Nov 1, 2011

A few thoughts:

1) I don't think who we attack has an affect on killing the Wiz. We can use Zululand as a launching point just as easily. Liz is cake.

2) I think we need to do something with the GSs now. Well, at least 1 of them. Bulbing PP does not really do much for us. Maybe we could just settle 1 in Topeka for extra beakers against Astro. In fact, if not for a possible Golden AGe later, I'd settle both of them. But we might as well hold onto 1 GS for a possible GA which will help get Astro

3) I say for now that we don't whip Topeka and have it serve as much as possible as the research center for the time being. Let it grow back, work those commerce tiles, and get as much beaker out of it as possible. Could even build some wealth or research there to help out. We have plenty of other cities at present to get out troops.

4) And yep, whip out a caravel from a Zulu city. We only need 1 now.

Mylene · Nov 1, 2011

Righto, i played 5 turns i think.
Not much, but this was exhausting with taking care of so many troops, cities and plans.
Will continue tomorrow.

The troops are about even divided on Asoki, Raggy and Mansa.
Iam almost done roading to Mansa, and the troops are ready to move out next turn.

Asoka i took a few cities and now have to make a decision on which next, there is a rather well guarded hill city, and one not so well guarded (big) other city.
Curs there can still move to one of them, or both?

Ragnar took a bit longer to get started due to Lizzy having a city there without roads, i took the first one now. He had some troops in there, but if that was everything...

I took us to 5 turns Astro at 100% science. Used GS for 2 Academies in Gems/Stone, it was a bigger gain than settling. Unfortunately, i got not a single trade for gold in, so now i have to save up a bit again. Courthouses are being built now and wealth, hopefully this will soon recover when more gold comes in.

Please notice the *lol* on how my first fight vs a barb archer (!!!) was lost by a fully healed Cur

Spoiler :

Mylene · Nov 1, 2011

More logs, was too big..

Spoiler :

bobbyboy29 · Nov 1, 2011

Looks pretty good on the war front. I have some random notes and queries though.

Do you think that we have enough units atm to take on mansa as well? The stack to attack him is pretty modest and with all core cities set on wealth, I'm not sure it'll be enough.

Also, what did you do with the GSes? We could really do with that GA right now. Ulundi could probably do with some MP as well. Finally, look at where the city Mansa wanted to give us was. Right next to the wiz!!! :cry:

Oh well...

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

Yip, i was brain storming that, wheter to gather for Mansa too (it's about 20 after everyone got there).
I think it is ok, i dont trust him to put up a big fight.
He researched Astro, that basically should mean he is still the same old Mansa now who rarely builds troops.

We may need some reinforments on all fronts after a while, but i think it is better to get the first steps done everywhere, than attacking less AIs. I plan on switching to Curs again after a short while, it is just to recover the hole that exists without Courthouses at the moment.

I used the GS up, the opinion from most was to do that sorry.
It worked really well, 2 additional Academies brought Astro down to about 10 turns (now 5).
Not so lucky on the trade front thou, gold comes in slowly with taking the small cities on the way first.

Didn't see the Mansa gift city yet, that is unfortunate

1 more reason to take him on

lymond · Nov 2, 2011

My built 2 academies, bb. 1 at least sounds good - whatever gets us the most beakers. 5 turns to Astro is pretty darn good and that is all we need. We might get a GA later, but honestly, who cares at this point. All we need to do is take some more AI cities and the Wiz and win.

We should keep an eye on the Dom counter. We may not even need to take every city from a given AI, but rather grab most of their land and get some goodies in peace, especially gold. REally, it all boils down to what gets us the win faster and keeps us afloat. It might be easier to nip a few cities from each AI as opposed to grabbing all of their cities. Plus, pulling our armies too far from the center.

When we get close to Dom land %, we can do some calculations and see whether it would be easier just to whip out a few settlers to grab up the remaining land. Let's not lose sight of the "speed" of victory. Anything not in sync with that mindset is fail.

BB - with how weak these AIs seem I think we are fine attacking Mansa now. Even taking a few cities would be good. If we are going to compete, we can't be timid. Let's go balls out!! (Our only female is the only one with the stones

)

I said early that I thought we coulda attacked Shaka with smaller stack.

lymond · Nov 2, 2011

A few thoughts looking at the current save:

a) Looks great! :goodjob:

b) I only think we need 1 Caravel at the moment just to scout the Wiz. Any more now just costs us and doesn't serve a purpose. I would cancel the one in Parthian and whip the other one now - might as well use the citizen we are going to lose anyway.

c) I really think we are going to have to whip some CHs in some of our main cities. The good thing is that we are in Police State, so we can 3 pop whip CHs and the OF will go into Curs. This is 5+ gpt savings in some of these cities. Maybe we don't have to do them all at once. After 1c completes start on another. I'd do Sheep first.

d) What's yall's thoughts on going for Aztecs first. He has the most land now so taking Azteca will bump us up quite a bit, plus it prevents us from getting blocked out behind is lines. Either Mansa or Monty gets us closer to the Wiz. The downside is Monty builds more units, but I think we can handle it.

e) Should we have settled that GG in Sheep or are we going for another medic? I guess that is fine as we will likely get one soon, but I think the next one should definitely go into Sheep as it will give us 3 promos out the gate.

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

Lymo, iam building 2 Caravels in case something happens to them

They will sail thru Mansa land, and he won't like me

But yip, this barb city i took is a pain..high maintance and gets nothing done cos no forests ~~

I like going for Mansa better than Monty, cos it will give us a much easier fight.
Monty has all those bad tundra cities, i saw what that does to our gold with Asoka

Didn't make enough. Do Ais ever cancel open borders?

We have the option to bribe Lizzy + Genghis on Monty + Gandhi

Should we do that?

The GG moves with the Asoka Curs to make a medic when they need to rest, or to push them if they would encounter a tough city. I like doing that, Sweet Sheeps has 3 out of the gate promos already

I think iam going to start whipping Curs out of the Shaka city that is set to wealth, for the Mansa force.

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

What do you guys think on the Asoka front, he has some roaming Catapults.
Splitting the stack would be too risky right now, cos 1 is a hill city with decent defenders?

Also as @Lymo mentioned, i need to start thinking about which cities to keep and what to raze.
Guarding too many cities is not optimal with split forces, and we can settle the land for the dom. limit later.

Gumbolt · Nov 2, 2011

A few thoughts. That caravel city is costing us 21 gold a turn! With culture it could use the fish!! Lets get some workers into the hub and help chop out court houses. Roads to Ai now seem silly. We need to whip court houses where costs are over 8 per turn!

As for the war with India. I would send them to the forest north of the top city. Their pults can't reach that tile and we could attack the city 1 turn later. As for the lower city. The defences are stronger. I figure we will want at least 2:1 attack ratios for now. Overall the war here is going well. Do we split now or once capital captured?

The Viking attack looks to be going well too.

The important city is the capital and that is sat behind the northern city. Ideally we need to split their stack and take out the pults. I would guess many of our units still have free promos. Overall we need to kill the Ai quickly. Remember you have 3 units behind the main stack to use.

In terms of bribing Aztecs into war. Would this not just get all the Ai building lots of units that we would have to fight past? If were gonna do it, do it before we declare on one of them. Last thing we want is the Ai spamming units.

In terms of Mansa. If we bring him to his knees he may give us astronomy! I say use the 20 units and roll out an attack time for the 10 turns peace ending.

Their is no immediate rush for astronomy now. We have time. Our main concern is the economy. We need that shrine and GLH. Does Astronomy cancel the GLH?? Be careful here.

Overall we need to keep pumping out units. Smaller cities have lower upkeeps.

We have a silver tile near horse city to work. I guess chopping CH's is more important.

I wonder if we should attack the Aztecs after Mansa. They are becoming a pain in terms of size. English would be an easier target but I like the open borders and trade routes.

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

Agree with most, i'll build more units again.
The stupid Caravel city was a loss from the start, with no granary and size 2.
Best i can do there is finish the ship, it will be useful once we declare on Mansa.

Roading to vikings wasn't silly

It did speed up the attack there by 1 turn. There wasn't a single road over maybe 6 tiles.

Bribing on the Aztecs would have the advantage that they leave us alone.
Mansa has the AP, Monty has us as worst enemy, and when i declare we will be at war with 3.
He could use that chance to declare on us, which would be a pain.

I don't really agree with CHs in our core cities. Overall we should not have to care about the 30-40 gold/turn that saves us combined. Every whipped tile is worth about 4 gold alone, and they already have lots of unhappy.
2 turns of CH instead of wealth on top of that loss, the gold situation doesn't look great now, but i sure hope we get some in again soon. It was just a dry period with small captured cities, and all of Shaka's land going out of revolt without being ready to pay for themselves. That will change.

Gumbolt · Nov 2, 2011

I meant the size 8 one!!! Not the ex barb city.

Roading to the Viking was Useful. Agreed.

If you intend the bribe to distract the Aztecs then do it. Let's hope he doesn't make too easy work of the AI. Although the English will ask us to join the war. The Ap will probably stop the war anyway but we can refuse that. Perhaps wait 1-2 turns till we are ready to declare on Mansa. Who is to say when he will hit war mode.

Fair enough on the court houses. CH vs wealth hmmm. I think the -21 gold cities do need them though. Can we build the forbidden palace somewhere??? If we get a GE burn him on this. Or even vers? We have options. 5-6 workers chopping FP could be better than 5-6 court houses.

We still have 8-9 more cities that could run wealth. We are fine for now.

Overall we need to keep pushing the war button no matter what the cost and perhaps start planning our 4th target?

Overall take the viking and Indians capitals and then split the stacks if we have enough units. Let you decide if we have the units for that.

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

Oh ok, that city

Basically i was following the plan to do everything fast, so getting out 2 ships would be nice.
Just 1 is a bit risky, we need to know what the Wiz has.

We are fine for gold, it's just the need for Astro that made me build wealth for a turn or 2.
Now that Mansa has it, and as long as we don't know how the Wiz looks, i will go back into Curs production again. Cept the cities that really need a CH ofc.

It's not an easy decision, to bribe or not. Getting off Monty's hate list would be good, not that we have to be scared of him, but it's just a pain when we need troops elsewhere.
Iam not sure it matters wheter they build a few more units, we want to steam roll them anyway, it only matters while our forces are still at work

Gumbolt · Nov 2, 2011

That size 2 city has corn and fish in border. I wonder if culture would be better?

Nongoma has fish but needs a court house before the caravel. Unless you plan to whip the caravel asap. -21 gold.

Our hub cities could certainly whip units. Sweet sheep is size 13!! others at size 9. i figure the new couert houses will out weigh loss of commerce. We need to replace the units we will lose on Viking/Mansa and Indians.

Looking at map merc civic would help. Most of Shakas old cities have no foreign trade routes. Some of our spoke cites don't either. Not good.

I think bribing the Aztecs into war could be a good thing. Like you say we have little to fear from them right now. Would be good to distract them. They are not in war mode right now though. It is a decision which you would need others in the team to agree to.

Right now key things are:
Court houses/ forbidden palace?
Keep whipping units in original hub.
Keep attacking Vikings/indians and attack Mansa soon.
Specialists in topeka? Market for merchants? 2 scientists there??

I think attacking English is most obvious 4th target.

So mansa/Shaka 50% dead.
Vikings/Indians crippled.
Aztecs /Indians - A threat of sorts.
English Mongols - Cut off really but easy pickings.

Mylene · Nov 2, 2011

Let's highlight it for the team then

Vote pls on bribe Lizzy/Genghis on Monty yep/nope

Gumbolt · Nov 2, 2011

Mylene said:
Let's highlight it for the team then

Vote pls on bribe Lizzy/Genghis on Monty yep/nope

What are we bribing them with????

SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

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