Deity Fun #5 - Burger King [Fractal, STANDARD, all random, no huts & events]

ok this one i just don't understand...

1680 BC, Zara has already 4 cities, 3 archers+settler in next spot, 3 archers+settler on the way yet in his area

first city 4 archers defending, capital 3 archers defending...

how anyone can chariot rush this? I counted 13 archers...
I killed 6 archers outside cities and yet he defends with 7 another one... i call BS this game.

I'll try later, but if you setup your production you can wait and it won't matter how many units he has. Maybe his unit spam is high and I made a mistake suggesting chariot rush?

Grashopa said:

I'll try later, but if you setup your production you can wait and it won't matter how many units he has. Maybe his unit spam is high and I made a mistake suggesting chariot rush?

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ah I thought you already played out...

I will fully admit I didn't went with sufficient numbers thinking 8 chariots will suffice for first city thinking I will hit him in expansion phase, but if someone is in expansion phase escorting settlers with 3 archers I want to see how it looks when he is unit spam mode...

Grashopa said:

I'll try later, but if you setup your production you can wait and it won't matter how many units he has. Maybe his unit spam is high and I made a mistake suggesting chariot rush?

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Zx Zero Zx succeeded a chariot rush but killed his economy forgetting teching pottery. So it is possible I guess.

Now I remember the exact reason why I didn't go after Zara: he's one of the two most zealots in the game. I was hoping he gets some religion (better than getting another one's religion as converting to his founded religion makes another diplo point over normal situation) and get him to friendly solely by religion. Not even needing OB (I block him) or anything else. A +9 is tremendously huge. And nice puppy brought me MoM, Notre-Dame (was really good for drafting), UoS (okay that one was useless for my victory condition), Hagia Sophia (another useless one) and many espionage buildings (duh, it's crazy and real life paranoid Zara with lots of spies. ) . And those espionage infra was a huge help in my future espionage missions (mainly drop the cultural defenses).

Anyways, I played the game in a way no error is acceptable. And chariot rush is a flip coin tactic. I succeeded this one once on deity against a superbly weak Roman empire stuck in jungles and very low production and busy building the TGH. With my best friend Toku.

Here Zara has more production and seemingly spams everything too fast.

EDIT: Anyone feels the forum is slow to respond?

@Vran i didn't do chariot rushes for ages on deity, just never works
And why should they ~~
WCs quiet different of course, immortals maybe.

Mylene said:

@Vran i didn't do chariot rushes for ages on deity, just never works
And why should they ~~
WCs quiet different of course, immortals maybe.

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Well if who you are rushing doesn't have metal it's not to hard. But you need to chop and whip out a lot of Chariots so you can pick off cities with less defenders, and kill units in the field that the AI moves around. The only really good thing about Chariots is their 2 move.

Zara doesn't have any metal in his lands, so you can start harassing him with a stack of 10 early. You have horse in your BFC so 3 techs, and you're already killing his settling parties. Then taking cities. You don't have to finish him that instant, but slowing him down and getting cities is good in the long run.

Mylene said:

@Vran i didn't do chariot rushes for ages on deity, just never works
And why should they ~~
WCs quiet different of course, immortals maybe.

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Never say never. I know it's possible to utterly cripple an AI with chariots, especially when those horses are within the initial BFC. Is it efficient? Not at all. Is it the best tactic? Depends but a very costly one and works bad on pangaea (hence likely the never of yours). Never works. That's not true. Once, in a offline game, I badly cripple shaka because I strategically placed chariots to attack two cities at once and then mass pillage. Unfortunately, I played sloppily and let him get iron even though I knew where iron was.

========================================================

As interlude (mid-term of the Deity Fun #5 video), I am fast uploading G-Minor 146
if someone has some time to kill to see epic (and damnation ultra lucky first attempt which destroyed my credibility...) early conquest on PRINCE! Ouh la la, impressive level...

Anyways, that's a way to see inner works of ultra-cheese game à la HoF.

well it's true that I could just pillage around trying to snipe city here and there and kill off settling parties forcing zara to remain at 4 cities, but that's not how I would imagine

a) fun game
b) chariot rush...

the purpose of rush to me was always about eliminating neighbor and then recovery of economy

not "slow down AI so you can slowly expand and eventually tech into something more usefull and kill the AI off", but since I saw AZ doing that couple of times, I start to understand that's the way "rushes" work on Deity level.

still the deity level feels too masochistic to my tastes and doesn't offer good enough fun for me.

Same, i was thinking about rushing not choking
You can choke with most units, chariots with no def. bonuses hmm..
why not use Warris much earlier? Can steal a worker too maybe, less benefit of doing so if waiting for Charis.

Not playing this game cos fractal annoys me usually, but from reading here i'd say HAs look much better. Let him develop his cities for you, Zara is pretty soft compared with most AIs early. Or depending on land, wait for Curis. No trade routes is quiet yuk too and Zara is pleased quick.

vranasm said:

a) fun game

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Fun factor has gone since Brennus on his island.
Anyways, I'm not gonna pull another HoF map with many gold tiles and lush lands.
People kept repeating to me how HoF is bad, how is it cheesy, how is it cooked, how is it unimaginative, how is it too beautiful maps that it created my new distorted mind of what is S&T subforum...

And if people are looking for fun, why in tarnation no one played the IMM Shaka game from soundjata? That one ended to be the most fun ever played on IMM to me. Only one HoF game of mine beat that one in the past and it was on epic speed, not normal.

@Mylene

BOTM52, was it some sort of fractal too or continent? In any case, the present map here can be viewed as a continent one.

well
first you have to understand that I just stated my opinion and definining what is fun in a game is highly subjective matter

second you maybe a bit misunderstand what I find a fun game, since sometimes even I don't know what it is .

I don't insist on playing deity difficulty with gold starts... to me the whole settings of Deity difficulty is unfun.

Starting with AI's having 2 cities, too many units and techs, meaning the whole early game is just riddiculous compared to Immortal where you have reasonable chance to be in-game every game.

Even on Settler the human player doesn't start with 2 cities and free workers, even if one could argue that turning on huts can mean this thing with enough attempts

As for soundjata game...maybe you didn't saw my post, but I indeed gave it a run to ~T100 and it was fun, but felt no need to actually finish the game, since I lately don't finish many games unless SG games and somehow my opinion was that I basically won the game already even if you provided much better save then me.

BTW, I'm not angry if I sounded like that. Your philosophy (S&T subforum) will make me much more stronger.

And exactly know what you like, Vranasm, you already stated it in a earlier thread:
Expand peacefully in the early game to max 7 cities (not overwhelming number of cities), then renaissance breakthrough and kill everyone asap before getting too much cities and they become anonymous and bureaucratic to manage. And you like Monarch to IMM.

And I saw you shadow in that IMM game.
I was more targeting people in general. They whine easy maps and hard ones. I'm finding hard time to please people.
And honestly, that Shaka game beats many forum games in fun factor recently, but except you, no one gave it a chance.

The major factors that a game is attracting me are the challenge and new elements.

When I joined this forum 3 years ago, boths factors existed.

1. challenge

In term of difficulty in my opinion (natural map and default setting).

• 10 -- Warmonger sandwich, i.e. you are the only LT of 2 warmongers
  
• 9.5 -- semi-isolated starts with a warmonger and you are neither Mali nor any protective leader.
  
• 9.0
  
  same with above, but you are either Mali or any protective leader.
  Pangaea map with all warmongers, average starts without any strong commercial resource.​
• 8.5 -- isolated starts with poor continent.
  
• 8.0
  
  Pangaea map with all warmongers, but have a capital with strong commerce resource.
  You are the only LT of a warmonger.
  Isolated starts with average continent​

Bonus difficulty AW +10, team AIs + 3

At that time, I still struggled to win above deity games due to the lack of personal skill. I consider capable of constantly winning the games of 8.0 and below to be a true master of a certain level.

I was quite active in S&T forum and looking for challenging games, my immortal AW and deity team SGs represented the end of this stage since I know the cap of my personal skill -- difficulty of 10 mean 100% failure for me.

2. New elements

In the 1st stage, my purpose is winning the game and therefore most of the games ended with military victory or military based diplomatic victory. The fact is that there are other types of victories which require different sets of skill, I realized this after I joined the GOTM forum and learned a lot of things from some excellent GOTMs. 15 minutes of reading of those GOTM winner games could give you a lot of information that you have not realized before. My purpose turned from winning to optimizing. However, challenging still exists now, I'm challenging the human players and human teams instead of AIs.




If you are looking for improving your personal skill to beat deity games, there's no need to play easy maps with locked assets.

• Replaying certain representative games multiple times until you feel no mistake yourselves to train your micro skill
• Playing games with harder settings to see where is your final cap.

BTW, I have not watched any video since I don't have the time and patience for the long ones, and short one are usually poorly played, which are only good for beginners.

Duckweed said:

If you are looking for improving your personal skill to beat deity games, there's no need to play easy maps with locked assets.

• Replaying certain representative games multiple times until you feel no mistake yourselves to train your micro skill
• Playing games with harder settings to see where is your final cap.

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Possibly easy maps, but that was the RNG whothat gave me this. Out of curiosity, what would be your score for this one...presently. He he...if I try to beef up the game, I can be sure I'll be a forever alone in my thread...but since the situation can't be worse right now...why not in the future where I'll feel more comfortable on this level. Now I remember, there was a dropped game where everyone was PLEASED with everyone and all warmongers (RNG gave me bad)...I think I kept the save.

And now I see this!

Concerning Duckweed's points, i think warmonger neighbors can be (hugely) annoying, but my rating of maps would be mainly connected to our surrounding land.
My fastest domi was 1100AD with Charly, who would expect him winning that?
Reasons were loads of seafood and nobody challenging those spots, and marble.

Tachy's Toku game would be a great example, wasn't Shaka that robbed me my nerves, but the land.
Big difference if you need monuments for example, for 1 food res.
Ais are usually too silly when declaring, like Shaka sending 4 Impis and 1 archer ~~
Gets more annoying later, sure, but our units also become better and cities more productive.

Aaand about fractal maps, i basically need pangea these days for entertainment.
Meeting all AIs, interaction..more fun. Fractal or continents can be harder no doubt, but it's like those AIs elsewhere play another game.

After a not so brief hiatus from civ due to real life stuff I am back in action. I played the start of this one.

To 1440bc:

As a Deity wannabe, I really liked this map even though I think I failed it (will post save later)...there's already the "Masochistic Deity" for those who are capable of winning almost every Deity game I thought? So don't let the complaints get to you...

@ PeteJ :