Beneath the Jade Moon (pre-NES)

theDright said:
Did you decide to merge the largish City of Roads in the middle of my region into Fenn? I'd be fine if you did, just want to know. Also, you should add House Derfennisy's name to the map. If possible, can I metastasize into any of the empty hills and mountains surrounding my region? Or across the Sibhor onto the north bank as well?

I did merge it, yes. I thought it worked better as a single merged locale. I could put a city icon below the castle icon, but as I said many times in the past: a castle icon does not mean there is not a city, and a city icon does not mean there is not a castle. Whatever is most relevant is what goes on the map, and I felt like the seat of your house was the most relevant aspect of what is basically a crossroads for a bunch of agricultural houses (no offense ;)).

theDright said:
Could I also get a more detailed climate and/or sociopolitical analysis of the area, if you have a chance (a la Nutra's description)?

A lot of what you need can either be found on the resources (that map should be correct for your region) / biome map or from other people's descriptions.

I imagine your area is not humid at all, actually quite dry, whereas Devercia's area on the other side of the Bandiyet is a bit more humid and with more precipitation. As I've said before, theDright, you are basically presiding over a breadbasket, one which fed the Pale City sufficiently in the past. In fact, this may have given lords in that area more wealth and power in times long passed (but I wouldn't count on it; farmers are usually not given much, nor the lords who preside over them necessarily, whereas the movers and shakers get a nice coin). For, oh, two or three centuries or more, the Pale City and the Blessed Valley have grown extremely populous (even in the post-War situation presently; of course there was a down-tick during the war, but that trend is turning around fast) -- far too populous to only rely on the breadbasket you preside over (and, to a lesser extent, Godhart exports and Pale farming efforts, which are presumably significant as well, but still not sufficient or expedient). I would say that, a few generations ago, the Pale began to rely more and more on food from Surotsi (the minor lords south of bombshoo, but shuttled through Sotulisi), which would not have really eliminated the importance of your region, but certainly diminished it. I would even say that most of the Pale / Blessed Valley's food comes from Surotsi at this point, and that dramatic fact could in fact be a result of the War; I imagine your territory was devastated during the War, with foodstuffs coming from Cyir and Godhart for Auren I, and significant food shipments moving through Serepen lands in Surotsi for the False Stone, and you sort of torn asunder (already I have it so the Cyirs were pushed hard into the ground by the False Stone initially -- admittedly, I have yet to fully digest your history / proposal; my apologies for my ignorance at this point). Could be that so much of the farmland and its supporting villages / estates were crippled from the War, so much so that food shipments from Surotsi became necessary, even under Auren I (though note that, as I said before, food exports from Surotsi and the Blessed Valley's reliance on them is not a new phenomenon; I'm more saying that now, the phenomenon is that they rely on those exports more than the traditional Jyotnun sources). Therefore, you could be in a state of recovery, even after 20-30 years since seeing true flames. Could almost have some sort of populist mentality?

erez said:
map snippet

Thanks for that, erez. I will be putting borders in, I've pretty much decided at this point. But I'm going to try to include all of the retainers and minor houses. :p
 
By the way, Friday and this weekend is good for deadlines, as long as you all follow through. There were problems in the past with half-filled proposals never getting finished. But I have faith in you all. :)

As a heads up, I have family business to attend to this weekend. I'll still be around, but intermittently. Today was also a busy day, which is why my posts are kind of all over the place.
 
Alex - I know, but it's hard to tell where your starts and his stops, so I just made a huge color blob :p

Optical - I thought Derost and Sarrel belongs to the guys bellow (who at first claimed the whole island) and the unnamed one to lucky? Oh well - I did say there would be loads of mistakes. It's just a basic layout of all the independent houses I could find.

Starlife - I wouldn't do that myself, I don't even know where some of them start or end :p
 
I also have the Shorelands shipping a lot of food to the Pale City, among other things. They run up some really decent agricultural surpluses. I'd imagine there would be a lot of call for importing stone and iron to the Shorelands; the Vein might have those resources but nobody's extracting them.
 
I also have the Shorelands shipping a lot of food to the Pale City, among other things. They run up some really decent agricultural surpluses. I'd imagine there would be a lot of call for importing stone and iron to the Shorelands; the Vein might have those resources but nobody's extracting them.

Do you think that the Shorelands would ship their food to the Blessed Valley (keep that massive distance in mind), or would it be more feasible that they primarily focus on markets in the west / southwest, and perhaps up and down the northern coast? I imagine the (somewhat newly) populated cradle House Assange sits within (we really have to change that name; I feel silly writing it [no offense erez]) requires a lot more food than it can produce. This is a sincere question, by the way.
 
As of now, there's absolutely no place on the northern coast worth shipping to, though perhaps that will change. It's certainly easier to ship things overseas massive distances than it is overland in this era. Whether or not it's feasible requires knowing the actual distances in miles/km, and comparing them to some of the longer medieval trade routes (like Venice/Genoa-Acre). Luxury goods like jadeite from the Godspires (for which the Pale City will have a perpetual demand) probably bumps up the margins. Sailing massive distances with this technology level is certainly doable (see the Norwegian Crusade,) but whether it is done profitably and regularly depends on distance, demand, and economics.

Long-distance shipping routes (I'd estimate about 2-4 months sail time) are more worth it for bulk goods like rice, which is the Shorelands' main crop. Points like Duston/Vyrnal and the larger Assange (Asa'al)/Reinar ports are probably hit as well, since both of those areas are population-heavy and food-poor.
 
Thlayli said:
As of now, there's absolutely no place on the northern coast worth shipping to, though perhaps that will change. It's certainly easier to ship things overseas massive distances than it is overland in this era. Whether or not it's feasible requires knowing the actual distances in miles/km, and comparing them to some of the longer medieval trade routes (like Venice/Genoa-Acre). Sailing massive distances with this technology level is certainly doable (see the Norwegian Crusade,) but whether it is done profitably and regularly depends on distance, demand, and economics.

Precisely my point. I think the Blessed Valley, about 1,500+ miles away if traveled to by sea (from the Shorelands) is a stretch. I'm not saying it's not possible, but that closer markets would be preferable unless merchants were actually relocating.

Thlayli said:
Points like Duston/Vyrnal and the larger Assange (As'aal)/Reinar ports are probably hit as well.

Yep, this is what I had in mind for the Shorelands -- rice to As'aal / the Minnowood Valleys + Reinar ports. And I agree, it makes sense that most of if not all of that trade would be accomplished by sea, and not the treacherous and slow land route.

Re: Iron: Likely sources for the Shorelands are the Minnowood Valleys and the Cyir domain -- Minnowood seems most likely and sustainable, given all the food you are exporting to that region.
 
The distance from Genoa to Acre, a route regularly and predictably traveled by medieval merchants, is over 1600 miles as the crow flies. So it's less unlikely than you'd think, if there are acceptable winds and supply ports along the way, and luxury goods to justify the voyage.

I do think closer ports would be used for lower-margin goods, but the great wealth and demand of the Pale City market will attract ambitious traders from Nais, and I'm willing to bet that Duke Tarquelin's fleet makes the attempt each (or perhaps every other) year.
 
The distance from Genoa to Acre, a route regularly and predictably traveled by medieval merchants, is over 1600 miles as the crow flies. So it's less unlikely than you'd think, if there are acceptable winds and supply ports along the way, and luxury goods to justify the voyage.

I do think closer ports would be used for lower-margin goods, but the great wealth and demand of the Pale City market will attract ambitious traders from Nais, and I'm willing to bet that Duke Tarquelin's fleet makes the attempt each year.

I can see that. Another note: when I start adding up the route actually to Achn / Tonul / Bellkale (which are the only unloading areas the emperor allows for food delivered by sea to the Pale City), it reaches almost 2,000 miles. :eek: Not saying this changes anything, but more cluing you in on that detail if you might have missed it (for story purposes or whatever comes in the future).
 
Here is an updated labeling of resources.

Notable changes since the beginning of this thread:
1. Corn is nowhere to be found, at least not enough for export.
2. Jade resources removed from the Low Valley / Cyir lands.
3. Added luxuries to south Surotsi, notably tobacco, opium, tea, and cotton.
4. Lots of fish added to the northern coast.
5. Whale added in the far north.

There are others, but they aren't as significant (some changes occurred in a zone without players or development, and some resources have become more specific or were moved around slightly).

Oh, and I want to remove the westernmost jade resource. I forgot to do that.
 
Supposed trade map...
 

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House Asa'al
Sigil / Words: A golden coin with a crescent moon on it / "In the end, the coin always wins"
Lord: Lord Asa'al II Tomrroc (44, married)
Family: Joon (26, married, heir), Daenir (son, 24, married), others sons and daughters, some unimportant brothers.
Ancestors: Asa'al - the first of the Asa'al, who built with his bare hands the entire house.
Holdings: Asa'al Keep, Hynan town, City of Lior, City of Godmoss (Godmoss), Poerto (Niiv), Carns (Cropps), Thior (Cropps)
Retainers: House Cropps - An old house that had its rise after the fall of the Minno but has fell under Asa'al shortly after. House Niiv - a small house that has seen plenty of fighting over its lands between the Hanin and Minno, and then under an invasion of the Hanin, to which it has lost its northern territories. Owing to Asa'al their survival, they have sworn allegiance. City of Godmoss - a large and rather independent city with a powerful citizen army. Asa'al has bought most of the city's lands and turned it under his rule, but their council remains highly influential in the city and its territories.
Sources of Income: Land owning and Trade, mostly trade.
History: Asa'al has brought his house into prominence using the power of the coin in the past few decades. He have died several years ago, leaving his only heir, Asa'al II as ruler of the house.
 
I can see that. Another note: when I start adding up the route actually to Achn / Tonul / Bellkale (which are the only unloading areas the emperor allows for food delivered by sea to the Pale City), it reaches almost 2,000 miles. :eek: Not saying this changes anything, but more cluing you in on that detail if you might have missed it (for story purposes or whatever comes in the future).

I'd still maintain that it's a possible trade route, just not one that's taken very often. Tarquelin, for example, would be involved in the transshipping industry as well.

So, for example, his ships might go to the Minnowwood in summer/autumn, trade there and probably winter there, then take on new crews, purchase more goods and continue onwards to the Pale City in spring/whenever the stormy season is past.
 
I'm informally recommending people not use "ae" in names a la notRome, but that's being nit-picky. Anyway, thanks for the name change: I have a sufficient amount of info to write your initial description, erez.

And Thlayli: all of that is perfectly fine.
 
I'm informally recommending people not use "ae" in names a la notRome, but that's being nit-picky. Anyway, thanks for the name change: I have a sufficient amount of info to write your initial description, erez.

And Thlayli: all of that is perfectly fine.
I don't have any ae :D ... I think.

How's my trade map? Semi-Ok?
 
erez said:
How's my trade map? Semi-Ok?

It serves a decent, broad reference purpose right now, thank you. It's not without errors, but that's to be expected because you don't know the kind of nuances I do, especially about south Surotsi. I'm also preparing a trade map to overlay the resource distribution map.
 
So Starlife, here's my quick blurb over the region's history. It's just a couple of sentences/paragraphs that I'm mostly posting to see if I am heading in the right direction.

The region inhabited by House Ror was one of the last regions in Jyotnun to be exploited by the Aulesiri population. The region's native Raayakin population was somewhat bolstered by those Raayakin who fled from the region dominated by the Godharts during the wars between the Raayakin and Godharts during the 500's (as per Azale's history blurb). Soon thereafter a few Aulesiri settlements began to pop up, mostly along the rivers, as a result of the Cyirs providing a somewhat safe passage for intrepid Aulesiri to migrate into this miserable little region.

For the most part these settlements were friendly towards the Raayakin, mostly because the Raayakin outnumbered the Aulesiri. Out of necessity a tense, but cordial enough, relationship was enjoyed in these early settlements and over time they would give birth to a population that part Raayakin, part Aulesiri. However, by time the Solemn Age hit its stride this would dramatically change.

Fueled by their lust to procure an increasing amount of minerals for their increasingly grandiose projects, the Oder of the Moon sponsored a number of merchant ventures into the region after prospectors discovered ample copper veins. Things immediately turned bad for the Raayakin population, who were enslaved and made to work in the mines, and after the Raayakin population was exhausted the part-Raayakin/part-Aulesiri were forced to follow their forebears into the mines. Now, this population was much, much larger than the Raayakin population, and being part Aulesiri they were rightfully angered by their grim, new reality.

When 1,300 A.R. brought about the Order of the Moon's fall from power, many members of the part-Raayakin slave population took up arms to help exacerbate the order's fall. A number of revolts sprung up in the 50 years leading up to the War of the Pale Brothers, but none were successful in dislodging the Order's powerful grasp on the region. When the civil war broke out most of the slaves/ridiculously impoverished threw their lot in with the current emperor's line and rather brutally aided in the persecution of the Order/the enemies of the emperor. Much of this turmoil continued until the past few decades (and arguable still continues as the members of the Old Order and their supporters are viciously hunted down) when the emperor sent a rather ill-fortunate noble family to preside over the region.

I may change that last bit about the origins of House Ror (I cannot decide if I want to make them a somewhat older, fully Aulesiri house that has fallen out of favor in the imperial court and were sent to the region as a punishment, or if I want them to be natives of the region, thus exacerbating their freshmen diplomatic status with the taint of Raayakin blood).

For the rest of it, though, am I going in the right direction?


edit: And, again, if Son of Erdrick proves to be a no show I'd totally be down for taking over the Cyir. :mischief:
 
Looking good, nutra!

nutranurse said:
For the rest of it, though, am I going in the right direction?

I like where you're going with this. I can't really find much to change. I think there would be no 100% pure Raayakin left at this point, but an entirely mixed population (but with a decidedly different appearance from other Aulesiri). Social and religious customs are likely different. I'd like to know how the mixed blood folk reconciled their existence with the Pale faith (basically, having some background on what these people believe in would be nice; I imagine they hold hostility towards the Old Order, as you said, but perhaps believe the new Order to be liberators of a kind? -- so maybe their beliefs set in the Pale are quite fresh and still developing... depends on how benevolent NK and the New Order are, but if they sent a house to the north to preside over that area, then that's a good start for the earning of respect).

Some kind of merging of animism, folk religions, and localized cults with the Pale would be interesting.

nutranurse said:
I may change that last bit about the origins of House Ror (I cannot decide if I want to make them a somewhat older, fully Aulesiri house that has fallen out of favor in the imperial court and were sent to the region as a punishment, or if I want them to be natives of the region, thus exacerbating their freshmen diplomatic status with the taint of Raayakin blood).

Both options are potentially interesting. I like the idea of relocation, though, and your house being Aulesiri and from the Pale City (we only have 1 or 2 relocated lords at this point, and it makes sense to me that after such a dramatic war, there would be more). Perhaps you lost an important battle or messed up somehow -- so it isn't only that the emperor is "punishing" you, but that you yourself feel disgraced and want to do good in the name of the new order and the line of Auren I (it doesn't make sense if you fought on the losing side and were sent up there... well, I suppose it can make some sense, but if you represented the old Order before, your populace is just going to hate you... and you have to wonder why Auren I didn't just cut your throat or send you to the Godspires).

Being a lord native to that region could be interesting as well. You would presumably not be well-respected in court or by other lords, which could have its fun side.

Perhaps you can do a merging of the two, as well: a disgraced lord who wants to make amends who goes to that region and marries the daughter of an influential, local house that is mixed Aulesiri-Raayakin (maybe a house that led rebellions) -- as all houses up there would be at this point, with most purebred Aulesiri houses up there being killed off by rebellions. There would be old shucks of castles looted and burned by violent rebellions, castles you inherit and take control of with a populace that respects you because of your marriage; meanwhile, you must curry favor with the emperor and rebuild a name for yourself (of course, this is 20 years before the start of our NES; maybe your current lord is the son of that coupling).
 
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