Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

Take y'ur turn whipper snapper! Quit dallying all day! :trouble:

JosEPh :old::groucho:
 
GT Ranma said:
That is friggen pimp... I want a Beast Master... I'd name him Dar.

Anywho, I for one think the biodome should be kept in, at least until we have some other way of spawning units post 'the map is filled with countries' game play. And did you ever get around to expanding it to be able to spawn any subdued animal, or just the 4? (Or 3? I forget).

And I would like to make 1 more point: Diversity of units should _NOT_ be for the sake of being able to make more powerful units, they should be for the sake of diversity. So each play through could be different and have different options depending upon the starting resources of your country. At pre-Monarchy you don't have to many cities, up to say 10? I forget. So hopefully each play through would be different depending upon which special resources you get. At least, in my opinion, that would be full of awesomeness. Yo.

Edit: Also, you could make the Panthers like the Wolves where in you have to make a special building by consuming the Panthera (Dog Kennel) to be able to build the Panther/Lions War units. That way, if people don't want to, they don't have to 'use' one of them to make it. So for small map'ed games this would make them pick and choose what they want or don't want since animal units are semi-scarce.
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I really liked the beast master units, and pretty close to what they were. I just thought they needed some diversity and good strength considerations is all. They'd be excellent units to help flesh out with some added purpose in the combat mod design. In fact, some ideas that went into that project presumed they'd still be available for use in a similar era and manner as they were initially so that they're role could be somewhat more specialized depending on which animal was under consideration.

In short, even a very generic implementation there would be nice so I can tweak them during combat mod design.

JosEPh_II said:
Why does everyone assume that all players use City Limits? Otherwise I agree about diversity.

JosEPh ;)
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I agree. I'm not a fan of City Limits.
 
JosEPh_II said:
Why does everyone assume that all players use City Limits? Otherwise I agree about diversity.

JosEPh ;)
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Whaaat, who was just arguing a thread ago that we didn't need city limits because the game was tweaked so that the Computer would still have around that many cities around the time of said city limit?

So my good sir, unless said programmer was full of kittens, everyone indirectly plays with 'city limits' regardless of the status of said check box.
 
(Not specifically about subdued animals, but kind of relevant...)

1. Can all animals see rogues, or all trained (rather than subdued) animals, or is it just dogs?

2. Can enemy rogues see them?

3. If a unit can see them, does that make them visible to everyone else (from that civ) as well? (It seems it does - I just need to confirm).

4. Is there a promotion that allows other units to see them?
 
GT Ranma said:
Whaaat, who was just arguing a thread ago that we didn't need city limits because the game was tweaked so that the Computer would still have around that many cities around the time of said city limit?

So my good sir, unless said programmer was full of kittens, everyone indirectly plays with 'city limits' regardless of the status of said check box.
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Tell me something I don't know, my good sir, and it's something I've fought over since City Limits was introduced. City Limits is a Waste of coding space imo. Unneeded and unwarranted complication to gameplay. Whether "said programmer implied it's used indirectly" or not.

I've already had the City Limit War with Koshling back in version 17. That's why it's still an Option now and kept as an Option back then. IF it's been subverted by either him or another "programmer" then they have gone back on their Word! :mad:

JosEPh
 
Yudishtira said:
(Not specifically about subdued animals, but kind of relevant...)

1. Can all animals see rogues, or all trained (rather than subdued) animals, or is it just dogs?

2. Can enemy rogues see them?

3. If a unit can see them, does that make them visible to everyone else (from that civ) as well? (It seems it does - I just need to confirm).

4. Is there a promotion that allows other units to see them?
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1) Generally only dogs but I feel there should be a review there because a lot of animals, bears for example, are by nature imbued with even better senses.

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) Not yet but some very selective unit combat classes could be worthy of it if it comes with a load of prereqs.


Its worthy of note that some plans are in the eventual works to give the various invisibility types a strength gauge against which all units would have alertness values and the system, as a result, would be a bit more complex and strategic once this takes place. Things like axemen who can hide from most units if they are fortified or hiding in a jungle will eventually emerge from such a mechanism. Its a plan for after the combat mod is fully developed and smoothed out so it'll be a while yet but its on the 'radar' anyhow.
 
Basically I like city limits, but the AI seems to have more trouble with them then I.
I know that an extra city is very usefull, so I spam happyness buildings in my cities to make this possible. I don't think the AI is able to do so.
Also, in my current game, India was so smart to switch from Republic to Monarchy - with 169 cities. I gifted him representative democratie and used spies to change his civics, but he switches back from time to time... I will see if I get a good savegame.
 
Faustmouse said:
Basically I like city limits, but the AI seems to have more trouble with them then I.
I know that an extra city is very usefull, so I spam happyness buildings in my cities to make this possible. I don't think the AI is able to do so.
Also, in my current game, India was so smart to switch from Republic to Monarchy - with 169 cities. I gifted him representative democratie and used spies to change his civics, but he switches back from time to time... I will see if I get a good savegame.
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I've found that the AI is more aggressive in going over it's city limits than I am normally. I usually will only beat them by a couple cities, while the AI players I've found will routinely go over the City Limits by 5 or 6 cities. At any rate, the DO evaluate the city limit unhappiness before building more cities, and DO normally switch to Republic when they get the chance.
 
@Dancing Hoskuld

Here is an Armadillo. They live on both North and South America. This species lives in the Deserts. I also have a Giant Armadillo to convert too. Which lives in the rainforest. So make this one the desert type. You may also want an Armadillo Myth since they are unlike other creatures we have. Probably should get Myth of Earth though.
 
An opossum is a food-and-fur resource animal, I don't see how you could really give it an attack strength. If it was going to wander around, you could give it a defence strength (of 1) only to reflect how non-trivial it is to hunt it. Same with (modern) armadillo/pangolin: it is a food resource, its hide might also be useful for something (maybe even primitive armour), it should not have an attack strength, but you could even maybe give it a defence strength of 2 due to the scales.

On another note, and I don't know if this has been covered before, but many flying birds have 3 move and this being aerial is terrain-independent. This makes them the best scouts you get until...I don't know when. My subdued eagle has 10XP, so now with Combat 1/Woodsman 1 it can defeat just about any animal that attacks it. Needless to say the Hunters, Wanderers and Chasers Union is threatening strike action.
 
Hmm, not sure this is the right place to post this, but I think it should be fine.

When I scroll over 'Donkey Mill' it says +1 :food:, but in Actual it says -4 :food: ... Is there a reason for this, or is it a bug?
 
Yudishtira said:
An opossum is a food-and-fur resource animal, I don't see how you could really give it an attack strength. If it was going to wander around, you could give it a defence strength (of 1) only to reflect how non-trivial it is to hunt it. Same with (modern) armadillo/pangolin: it is a food resource, its hide might also be useful for something (maybe even primitive armour), it should not have an attack strength, but you could even maybe give it a defence strength of 2 due to the scales.

On another note, and I don't know if this has been covered before, but many flying birds have 3 move and this being aerial is terrain-independent. This makes them the best scouts you get until...I don't know when. My subdued eagle has 10XP, so now with Combat 1/Woodsman 1 it can defeat just about any animal that attacks it. Needless to say the Hunters, Wanderers and Chasers Union is threatening strike action.
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There is not a different attack/defense strength in Civ IV just a combat strength. Don't forget the bones and teeth. For example fish bones are great as needles and antlers are ready made picks for digging.

No subdued animal can reveal the map. They also have less chance of subduing other animals.
 
GT Ranma said:
Hmm, not sure this is the right place to post this, but I think it should be fine.

When I scroll over 'Donkey Mill' it says +1 :food:, but in Actual it says -4 :food: ... Is there a reason for this, or is it a bug?
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It obsoletes Quern, you probably have one in the city and grains in the city vicinity, in which case the mill gives less food in total.
 
Ahh, interesting. I'd never had a donkey before, I actually had to cheat to get on this time.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
There is not a different attack/defense strength in Civ IV just a combat strength.
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FFH has units with different strengths for attack and defense, so Civ 4 can do it. And anyway what I'm suggesting is no attack strength, which is what scouts have in all versions including C2C (subdued animals are much the same).
 
MaXimillionZero said:
It obsoletes Quern, you probably have one in the city and grains in the city vicinity, in which case the mill gives less food in total.
Click to expand...

This needs brought to Hydro's attention so it can be fixed. Not the intention it was supposed to have.

JosEPh
 
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