FFH -- We don't betray or kill all of our allies

Folket · Dec 19, 2012

That is how it has allways worked in FFH. I have never considered considered it a bug. It is one of the reasons shadows are so strong. (you have to get Empyrean priests or recon units with see invisible promotion to fight them)

The workers will not chop forests but they do not have double moves in forests. So I built road so that they can join up on the same square without loosing a turn. An other thing about the illian workers is that they are not as slow as elven workers.

Folket · Dec 19, 2012

btw, Empyrean was founded somewhere.

I think your PPP is fine. But you might consider healing in his territory, if you can keep his army busy with the spider you will not loose any turns.

UnforcedError · Dec 19, 2012

Folket, if a unit moves onto a tile a spider is occupying which it cannot see it will still be attacked by the spider. It is definitely a bug. Whatever.

Captured workers have functioned as normal workers for the given civilization ever since Kael's last official patch (they would still look like workers from their old civs though). I see no reason why Tholal would have changed it back to how it was in the unpatched version. But well, you never know with this mod :sigh:

Fine, I'll play later tonight when I'm back or maybe tomorrow.

UnforcedError · Dec 20, 2012

So, we're still alive.. barely. You didn't tell me Auric built the Bone Palace so he spent the whole TS in a golden age cranking out units everywhere...
Razed Sopor because he completed a temple there, so it would have been useless otherwise. Last elephant to be upgraded next turn (upgraded our better warriors to swords too). Stack has to move back to defend Gereth Minar. Tried to get some units new promos, spider has mobility now. Otherwise, we suck big time. Hope priests of leaves will make a difference. There is just no way to take cities with hunters. Lost one of the better ones, otherwise most of our units are still alive, some hurt.

T210 Prophecy of Ragnarok built somewhere.

T211 Auric gets a Great Merchant in Innsmouth.

T211 Luchuirps capture Ultigar, our barb city.

T213 Year of the Great Serpent but that doesn't matter much.

T216 Sopor razed.

T216 And Auric actually built a hunter:

Spoiler :

T217 Hear me mortals, bla bla bla... (counter at 13)

Folket · Dec 21, 2012

Well played.

I'm sorry I missed to inform you some things. That was because I had to play at home and then report how it went from work as my internet was down.

Perhaps we should get knowledge of the ether and way of the wicked next. That would allow us to bulb ashen veil. Ritualists are very powerful.

We had a slow start compared to my test game. And it is impossible to get good relations with anyone so there is no trading to catch up. Given how aggressive the AI is the other continent is probably only one civ very soon.

Folket · Dec 21, 2012

btw, this is a got it.

UnforcedError · Dec 21, 2012

We had indeed an unusually slow start, mainly because of River of Blood + Orthus + Stasis + frostlings. It can't really get much worse, unless Auric spawns next to us and warrior rushes :lol:

And who knows what the Ljosie team is doing, they might well be on their way to archmagi now :sad:

I think we should decide whether we want to drop the priests after bulbing PH. If not, we could go for the Veil, sure, although we can't keep it for too long, so that will mean 2 turns of anarchy switching back and forth. I'd say KotE after Phil is great. But maybe we should get Poisons afterwards?

Folket · Dec 21, 2012

Is there a way we could bulb poison?

UnforcedError · Dec 21, 2012

Folket said:
Is there a way we could bulb poison?

Not really. It's #24 on the GE bulbing list, but the GE would bulb the whole metal line first, plus some other techs. Besides, we have no chance on getting a GE anyway.

Folket · Dec 21, 2012

Thanks for checking that. I will make a PPP tomorrow morning. But it will be in the lines of
fight, fight, fight, go for philosophy, fight.

UnforcedError · Dec 21, 2012

Folket said:
Thanks for checking that. I will make a PPP tomorrow morning. But it will be in the lines of
fight, fight, fight, go for philosophy, fight.

There is not much else to do, I guess

Folket · Dec 22, 2012

PPP
Fight Aurics stack.
Then heal for some time.
Probably fight an other stack or sac some low experience hunters to take a city.

I would probably build a settler in Gereth minar since it is growing over happy cap. We need the settler sooner or later.

The other cities will build units to fight with.

UnforcedError · Dec 22, 2012

Gereth Minar has a fairly low happy cap and this will only change after we have water mana and bloom. So yes, settler is fine there. Nameless Tower is already a better unit builder city anyway.

Folket · Dec 22, 2012

Auric Ulvin built the great lighthouse. Good to see him waste hammers on something that is not units or the deepening.

I captured two cities. I razed the first as it had a temple of the hand. The second one I kept.

As you see in the save Auric has managed to build a new stack. I think 1 unit survived the two turns of fighting with the one he had 10 turns ago.

It started of bad with loosing two elephants at 95% and 90%. But after that it mostly went our way.

Use the hurt elephant to plunder the fort outside the besieged city to force Auric to stand in the open. I think this stack will die very fast as well and then you can capture one or two cities.

Use the new settler to get the horses.

Make sure we get a road built south so that our fast hunters can reinforce our army. Sac one inexperienced hunter for each defender Auric has in the city. If he has more then three attack some other city.

I started cartography. Next we should do poison. We will be in trouble when Auric get iron working if he gets it before poison.

Auric is hurting now. We will bleed him until he get iron working or boyers.

Good luck with your TS.

Folket · Dec 22, 2012

btw,

Tholals answered my questions.

The rebase hawk thing is that the hawk does not have unlimited rebasing range in Naval AI.

He also has made the AI attack people that look to weak to defend themself. Which will always happen to the human player when playing on immortal or deity. I think this was a bad design decision.

UnforcedError · Dec 22, 2012

Great turnset

I guess PPP for the next TS would be:

Finish Cartography and switch to City States immediately (Hooplak's maintenance is devastating but it shoud be OK as soon as we're out of God King).
Bulb Priesthood as soon as the Prophet is in. Then we have either the option to get another GP for the Veil (we could also add a sage to the lot, an academy or a sage bulb wouldn't hurt either if we get a GS at low odds). Or we could just drop those guys for now and let Thariss grow to the happy cap.

Tech: I'd say, KotE next, then Posions. Or maybe one of the mana techs? Body? Water? Sun? Sun would practically allow us to keep iced cities as well. Tundra + ancient forest isn't that bad as long as there is some food in the city.

I'd settle the horse spot 1N of the banana with our first settler. Then build another one in Gereth Minar for the city spot Aurc razed. Guess later on we should settle the two sites towards Garrim as well but for now it might be risky as border tensions might cause him to declare again.

Otherwise build units and fight. Will try to take a city if the opportunity presents itself.

UnforcedError · Dec 22, 2012

Folket said:
btw,

Tholals answered my questions.

The rebase hawk thing is that the hawk does not have unlimited rebasing range in Naval AI.

He also has made the AI attack people that look to weak to defend themself. Which will always happen to the human player when playing on immortal or deity. I think this was a bad design decision.

Thanks for asking him

Yep, apparently hawks do rebase from city to city in a chain of A to B and B to C but not from A to C. The bad thing about this is you can't rebase hawks to other continents and hunters don't seem to be able to travel by boat (no idea why).

I agree. All AIs attacking weak guys immediately is simply bad design. It will force you into get-better-units mode for most of the game, which is a very one sided way of playing. Also, the AIs will never try for peaceful victories either. They will win religious if you spread their religion around but they wouldn't lift a finger to spread it actively, either. All they do is warring.

Yudishtira · Dec 22, 2012

UnforcedError said:
hunters don't seem to be able to travel by boat (no idea why).

I've had the idea at the back of my mind that a 'human' unit with a cargo capacity was likely to cause problems: this would be one of them. Presumably units with cargo capacity can't be stacked ie. can't be transported on other units with cargo capacity.

It was quite a feat of lateral thinking to make a early-game human unit into a kind of aircraft carrier, but it does have its downside.

UnforcedError · Dec 23, 2012

Yudishtira said:
I've had the idea at the back of my mind that a 'human' unit with a cargo capacity was likely to cause problems: this would be one of them. Presumably units with cargo capacity can't be stacked ie. can't be transported on other units with cargo capacity.

It was quite a feat of lateral thinking to make a early-game human unit into a kind of aircraft carrier, but it does have its downside.

That sounds logical. I'm sure this is the case with hunters. Although that doesn't explain why bears can't hit the waves either (whileas other animals can) :confused:

Folket · Dec 23, 2012

Strange I have not noticed the hunter bear problem.

Still I updated the dotmap with my suggestions on new city positions. I think we are pretty much in agreement.

Build hunters constantly in Tharsis and Nameless tower at least up until we get priests. You will need excess units to sac on the cities. The more exp an unit has be more conservative as we need the high experience units.

I would like to run scientist specialists but we do not have enough slots. So I'm fine with both scientist and priests. A scientist would allow us to bulb divination. A priest would open up ashen veil for us. Divination is something we need and ashen veil is just very powerful.

FFH -- We don't betray or kill all of our allies

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