SGOTM 17 - Unusual Suspects

neilmeister said:
Yes, these were pretty much the locations I was thinking off, with pork central first up (I like that name)
Here is an alternative dotmap, I think we both agree the yellow spots are cities 3 & 4. The reds spots are alternatives to your whites.
Click to expand...

Looks like silver banana is the same as well. On the city you have 2e of pig. I still like 3e better. 2 more river grass. Shares cow with Prague who will have plenty of food. More forests to chop. And 2 less coast. Though it does give up the cap pig.
 
SteelHorse said:
Looks like silver banana is the same as well. On the city you have 2e of pig. I still like 3e better. 2 more river grass. Shares cow with Prague who will have plenty of food. More forests to chop. And 2 less coast. Though it does give up the cap pig.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you are right, the cap can't really afford to share the pigs, but Pork Central can easily share the cows. It does lose a GH though, and production looks like it is hard to come by.

edit: scratch that, the city 3w has rice/banana & shared cows, and this leaves the city to its north with 2 bananas. So all cities will have multiple food resources.
 
PPP

Follow plan on Neil-Pigs spreadsheet.

Research: Alphabet

Aachen: Archer (whip) -> Settler -> Warrior -> Library (whip) -> Archer
Phantastic: Granary -> Archer -> Settler -> Worker
Pork Central: Library (chop & whip) -> Granary

Workers 1,2,3 per spreadsheet. Connect new cities, finish Phantastic improvements, connect TR's to Mansa.

Archer1: SW to fogbust Pork Central
Archer2: S to fogbust Copper
Archer3: NW to fogbust Horses
Warrior1: MP duty in Aachen

Espionage: focus on Mansa (for now)

Stop conditions:
1. Alphabet
2. Meet new AI
3. Mansa willing to trade techs
4. Threatening barbarians
5. Weirdness
 
Yep, just open my test save and have a look. You can open world builder and see that he knows no-one else, but will happily trades techs wih us.
 
edit: the dreaded double post
 
Green.

If Pork Central has Iron, do we rename it PigIron? Ha Ha
normally would need to wait for railroad, but we already have railroads :mischief:
 
Okay, green from me! :) BTW, south east of our capital, that plains tile. Could that be an island? If so, I reckon we should get it up and running ASAP for that foreign commerce.
 
The plan looks good. Green from me.

One question: What is the plan for scouting? I realize we've lost the scout to barb animals, and we have other priorities, but maybe we should get a scouting WB out soonish?

Sorry for the lack of input. I was crazy busy at work this week, and my son's little league started up this weekend.
 
There seems to be quite a bit of variety in the opening.

US, Ducks, MGN, FE, Sporks all settled on t1.
PR on t2
Kaku on t3

edit: x-post. Not much of a scouting plan as yet. All units are required for defending or fogbusting Copper & Horses. We will explore soon, but in the meantime it isn't hugely important. If there is another AI about, they will find us. WB will come once we are assured of our cities survival.
 
OK, thats a green from everyone except Ben & Chris. From the last few posts, I think Chris is supportive of Alpha first and Pork Central.

I will start playing soon!!
 
Well, to say that went well is a fairly large understatement. I think I used up all of my luck for the whole game. :)

Our copper fogbusting archer found the motherlode
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0133_zpsbfbe0274.jpg


We are connected to Mansa, and we have our first clue of what he was researching...
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0134_zps802c3cb7.jpg


Buddhism starts spreading...
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0135_zps600e76d9.jpg

When it spread to all three of our cities, and we were about to settle horses, we revolted.

The screenshot after Alphabet was announced was this.... and I accepted. Sorry, I know I should have stopped and consulted the team, but I was a bit too excited and worried that the AI sometimes offer killer deals once only. We had discussed it at length already.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0136_zps122c2340.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0137_zpsfc1107e9.jpg


Iron appeared, but not quite where we thought.

Civ4ScreenShot0138_zps7c34ba19.jpg



The Pigs fogbuster defeated a bear.
The Horse fogbuster found an Axe, but was victorious.

Info Screens:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0140_zps482eaab0.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0141_zps8dc3f806.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0142_zps65cf8930.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0143_zps0286c531.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0144_zps19a2c606.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0145_zps83972105.jpg



We have the 2nd biggest population, almost certainly to Mansa

Upload log:
Spoiler :
Turn 87, 700 BC: The borders of Phantastic have expanded!

Turn 89, 650 BC: Pork Central has been founded.

Turn 91, 600 BC: Confucianism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 94, 525 BC: Mansa Musa adopts Caste System!

Turn 95, 500 BC: Buddhism has spread in Aachen.

Turn 96, 475 BC: The borders of Aachen have expanded!

Turn 98, 425 BC: Buddhism has spread in Phantastic.

Turn 101, 350 BC: Buddhism has spread in Pork Central.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs Quartermaster's Archer 2 (Phantastic) (4.65)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Combat Odds: 57.8%
Turn 101, 350 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 101, 350 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Quartermaster's Archer 2 (Phantastic) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Quartermaster's Archer 2 (Phantastic) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Quartermaster's Archer 2 (Phantastic) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 101, 350 BC: Quartermaster's Archer 2 (Phantastic) has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!

Turn 103, 300 BC: Aachen will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 103, 300 BC: Quartermaster converts to Buddhism!
Turn 103, 300 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 104, 275 BC: Aachen will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Supercity has been founded.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Aachen will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Pork Central will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 104, 275 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!

Turn 105, 250 BC: Aachen has grown to size 6.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Aachen has become unhealthy.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Pork Central has grown to size 2.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Mansa Musa will trade Code of Laws, Iron Working, Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 105, 250 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!


Buffy Log:
Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 32/450 (825 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:16:38]
Research begun: Alphabet (36 Turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 1 in the bank

Turn 33/450 (800 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:17:34]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Aachen
Aachen grows to size 4
Aachen finishes: Archer

Turn 34/450 (775 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:17:56]
Aachen begins: Settler (8 turns)
A Mine was built near Aachen
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Djenne, Archer (2.52/3) defeats Barbarian Bear (Prob Victory: 94.4%)
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Quartermaster (Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 35/450 (750 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:18:28]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 34 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen finishes: Settler

Turn 36/450 (725 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:18:52]
Aachen begins: Warrior (3 turns)
A Cottage was built near Phantastic
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 45 in the bank

Turn 37/450 (700 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:19:12]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 10 per turn, 56 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen finishes: Warrior
Phantastic grows to size 3
Phantastic's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Quartermaster (Holy Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 38/450 (675 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:19:38]
Aachen begins: Library (13 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 66 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Mansa Musa (Mali) towards Quartermaster (Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 39/450 (650 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:20:21]
Prague founded
Pork Central begins: Library (90 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 9 per turn, 77 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen grows to size 5

Turn 40/450 (625 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:20:42]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 10 per turn, 86 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Hamlet was built near Phantastic

Turn 41/450 (600 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:21:00]
A Camp was built near Phantastic
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 96 in the bank

After End Turn:
Phantastic finishes: Granary

Other Player Actions:
Confucianism founded in a distant land

Turn 42/450 (575 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:21:23]
Phantastic begins: Archer (4 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 108 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Aachen
Aachen grows to size 4
Aachen finishes: Library

Turn 43/450 (550 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:21:58]
Aachen begins: Archer (7 turns)
100% Research: 27 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 120 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Aachen

Turn 44/450 (525 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:22:37]
100% Research: 27 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 112 in the bank

After End Turn:
Phantastic grows to size 4
Phantastic finishes: Archer

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 45/450 (500 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:22:49]
Phantastic begins: Settler (7 turns)
A Camp was built near Phantastic
100% Research: 31 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 104 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: Aachen

Turn 46/450 (475 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:23:31]
100% Research: 35 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 96 in the bank

After End Turn:
Aachen's borders expand
Pork Central grows to size 2

Turn 47/450 (450 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:24:03]
A Cottage was built near Pork Central
100% Research: 37 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 87 in the bank

Turn 48/450 (425 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:24:22]
100% Research: 37 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 78 in the bank

After End Turn:
Buddhism has spread: Phantastic

Turn 49/450 (400 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:24:42]
100% Research: 37 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 69 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Hamlet was built near Phantastic

Turn 50/450 (375 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:25:00]
100% Research: 38 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 60 in the bank

After End Turn:
Phantastic finishes: Settler

Turn 51/450 (350 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:25:20]
Phantastic begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 36 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 51 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Pork Central
Pork Central finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: Pork Central
While defending in the wild near Phantastic, Archer 2 (Phantastic) (1.20/3) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 42.2%)

Turn 52/450 (325 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:26:26]
Pork Central begins: Granary (60 turns)
100% Research: 37 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 42 in the bank

Turn 53/450 (300 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:26:57]
100% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 0 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 33 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Aachen

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Quartermaster (Holy Rome) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

Turn 54/450 (275 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:27:38]
Prague founded
Supercity begins: Library (90 turns)
A Cottage was built near Pork Central
100% Research: 40 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -13 per turn, 33 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Alphabet
Aachen grows to size 6
Pork Central grows to size 2

Turn 55/450 (250 BC) [11-Mar-2013 17:28:13]
Diplomacy: Mansa Musa (Mali) offers to trade Iron Working to Quartermaster (Holy Rome) for Mathematics
Diplomacy: Quartermaster (Holy Rome) accepts trade of Mathematics to Mansa Musa (Mali) for Iron Working
Tech traded to Mansa Musa (Mali): Mathematics
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Iron Working
Research begun: Currency (9 Turns)
 
Wow - Very nicely done! :goodjob: An embarrassment of riches. Mansa teched IW (and CoL), spread Buddhism, and didn't grab any of our desired city sites. And the copper site is really nice. :king:

I think Calendar Currency next to trade for CoL (edit: or Calendar) seems like a plan (and that was the plan as I recall).

I think I am up next. I will take a careful look at things tomorrow night, but I am not opposed to simply following directions, if someone sketches out the PPP. :)

Edit: I guess the real problem is that we haven't found the people we are supposed to conquer in order to win. I agree with the earlier analysis that this is by design: The only neighbor we've met is the one we'd least like to kill. I hate to keep bringing this up, but we really need to scout and find out what sorts of obstacles are preventing us from meeting other AIs
 
I agree, the AI we know will stay alive for probably quite a long time, we need to know where the next AI is.

Our immediate needs are:
2 settlers, 1 for the copper-mega site, 1 for Iron/Rice/Banana (or 2*banana)
Workers
Work boat for exploring
Archer for exploring

It's funny, only last week I was testing for the Clams/Banana site.... which is about 8th in line now!

edit: I will have a play with the micro, but I think a WB in Aachen next is sensible, even if it delays the copper site. Phantastic can focus on settlers/workers for now, and Pork Central will be able to help pretty soon, it will be an amazingly awesome city.
 
Great job, sorry I was offline most of the weekend. Glad to see you played!

We do need to scout, but will a workboat do the trick? How soon will barbarian galleys appear on a classical start?

Is Revent right that we have an island to the southeast that we could settle for overseas trade routes?
 
Yes, its definitely an island, with iron & stone, and can use the crabs. Maybe we need a galley before a wb, but a wb first is tempting as it can connect the crabs and help our health issues.
 
Yes, I think that is sensible. With Alpha, we really want to meet some more AI.

We are sustaining 50% research, and have 2 more cities to settle in the near future, so we will need to balance things out.
Aachen is currently working 2 scientists, maybe once these generate the GS we can work both mines & all cottages, so have enough hammers to produce the boats.
Phantastic can concentrate on worker/settlers.
Pork Central & Supercity to focus on basic infra, at least initially.
 
neilmeister said:
Well, to say that went well is a fairly large understatement. I think I used up all of my luck for the whole game. :)
Click to expand...

Wow - I haven't had that much luck since 1st year of university. :crazyeye:

Great job :goodjob:

A couple of quick thoughts. It looks like we might be hemmed into the NE corner of the map with Mansa. So priority 1 - is getting as much land as we can as quickly as we can. 1N of iron followed by the silver banana would be my suggestion. i think the workboat/galley can wait, it does not look like we are going anywhere south (just a guess). Looking like we are isolated in the corner with Mansa. Priority two is keeping tech parity. If we keep Mansa away from the water, then he may not be able to reach others before us.

Workers and Settlers for now. There are 4 sweet spots + the island to settle. And garrisons as needed.

On tech I am really torn. Mansa is out EPing us 2-1. I reaaly wish we could see what he is up to. Maybe the best strategy is to go where we think he wont. MC, Compass, or Aes. Currency is less valuable in my opinion as we can only get trade routes and old from 1 AI. And with all the banana he could go Cal.
 
ChrisShaffer said:
Maybe a workboat to explore the SE and fogbust until crabs are ready to net, and a galley to explore west?
Click to expand...

Does not look to be much we can explore to the west. Ocean 2S of mountain banana. A workboat to confirm ocean south of the island, but only after blocking mansa from the coast with cities.
 
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