SGOTM 17 - Plastic Ducks

Code of Laws is great news for us. :goodjob: All my tests suggested that Mansa lost interest in the tech after the religion was gone. Did he found Confucianism?

Glad to hear our units are still alive.

Could you take a screenshot of the current turn, or maybe upload our most recent save?
 
T39 is a bit faster. Mansa's average tech rate in the last 19 turns is 511/1.2/1.25/19 = 18 bpt, so his tech rate now should be more than 20bpt.

We have no idea how much of OF from CoL, the time he needs to complete IW could be 8~10 turns as I analyzed before. Therefore the safe date of Math trade is T47. T48 is still not a bad date since he might detour to Monotheism before or after IW. The question is that "whether we want very safe Math date with more sacrificing". I'm kind of on the fence.

BTW, what's his capital size now?
 
Yes, Mansa founded the religion in Djenne (his 2nd city)
Timbouktu is now P6

A general overview of our empire :
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0168.jpg


The save is uploaded, report below.
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 775 BC to 650 BC:

Turn 84, 775 BC: Vous avez entraîné 1 Soldat avec hache à PlastDukeberg. La production de 1 Archer a commencé.
Turn 84, 775 BC: Barbare's Lion (1.12) vs Quartermaster's Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier) (2.60)
Turn 84, 775 BC: Probabilité de conflit : 0.4%
Turn 84, 775 BC: (Combat animal : +5%)
Turn 84, 775 BC: (Défense case : +25%)
Turn 84, 775 BC: Les Barbare (Lion) infligent 25 points de dégâts (31/100PV)) !
Turn 84, 775 BC: Les Barbare (Lion) infligent 25 points de dégâts (6/100PV)) !
Turn 84, 775 BC: Les Barbare (Lion) infligent 25 points de dégâts (0/100PV)) !
Turn 84, 775 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) ont vaincu l'unité des Barbare (Lion) !

Turn 85, 750 BC: Quartermaster's Archer (2.79) vs Mansa Musa's Eclaireur (0.94)
Turn 85, 750 BC: Probabilité de conflit : 100.0%
Turn 85, 750 BC: (Combat supplémentaire : +10%)
Turn 85, 750 BC: (Défense case : +50%)
Turn 85, 750 BC: (Se retrancher : +15%)
Turn 85, 750 BC: Les Mansa Musa (Eclaireur) infligent 28 points de dégâts (26/100PV)) !
Turn 85, 750 BC: Les Mansa Musa (Eclaireur) infligent 28 points de dégâts (0/100PV)) !
Turn 85, 750 BC: Les Quartermaster (Archer) ont vaincu l'unité des Mansa Musa (Eclaireur) !
Turn 85, 750 BC: Vous avez entraîné 1 Ouvrier à Bronze Beaver. La production de 1 Grenier a commencé.

Turn 87, 700 BC: PlastDukeberg a grandi jusqu'à la taille 4.
Turn 87, 700 BC: PlastDukeberg est devenu malheureux.
Turn 87, 700 BC: You are the worst enemy of Mansa Musa.
Turn 87, 700 BC: Mansa Musa veut échanger Polythéisme
Turn 87, 700 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Mansa Musa

Turn 88, 675 BC: PlastDukeberg peut précipiter Colon pour 2⇴ avec 6ℤ de débordement et +1⇤ por 32 tour.
Turn 88, 675 BC: You are the worst enemy of Mansa Musa.
Turn 88, 675 BC: Mansa Musa veut échanger Polythéisme
Turn 88, 675 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Mansa Musa
Turn 88, 675 BC: Vous avez entraîné 1 Colon à PlastDukeberg. La production de 1 Archer a commencé.
Turn 88, 675 BC: La religion (Confucianisme) a été fondée à Djenné !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Barbare's Guerrier (2.00) vs Quartermaster's Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier) (3.00)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Probabilité de conflit : 9.9%
Turn 88, 675 BC: (Défense case : +50%)
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 24 points de dégâts (76/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 24 points de dégâts (52/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) infligent 16 points de dégâts (84/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 24 points de dégâts (28/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 24 points de dégâts (4/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) infligent 16 points de dégâts (68/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) infligent 16 points de dégâts (52/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) infligent 16 points de dégâts (36/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) infligent 16 points de dégâts (20/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 24 points de dégâts (0/100PV)) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: Les Quartermaster (Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) (Guerrier)) ont vaincu l'unité des Barbare (Guerrier) !
Turn 88, 675 BC: En se défendant, votre Warrior 2 (I'll let bestss) a éliminé un Guerrier (Barbares) !

Turn 89, 650 BC: PlastDukeberg deviendra malheureux au prochain tour.
Turn 89, 650 BC: PlastDukeberg peut précipiter Archer pour 1⇴ avec 17ℤ de débordement et +1⇤ por 41 tour.
Turn 89, 650 BC: Mansa Musa veut échanger Livre des lois
Turn 89, 650 BC: Quartermaster's Soldat avec hache 1 (PlastDukeberg) (5.00) vs Barbare's Guerrier (1.33)
Turn 89, 650 BC: Probabilité de conflit : 100.0%
Turn 89, 650 BC: (Combat : -50%)
Turn 89, 650 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 36 points de dégâts (64/100PV)) !
Turn 89, 650 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 36 points de dégâts (28/100PV)) !
Turn 89, 650 BC: Les Barbare (Guerrier) infligent 36 points de dégâts (0/100PV)) !
Turn 89, 650 BC: Les Quartermaster (Soldat avec hache 1 (PlastDukeberg)) ont vaincu l'unité des Barbare (Guerrier) !
Turn 89, 650 BC: Votre Soldat avec hache 1 (PlastDukeberg) a vaincu 1 Guerrier !
Turn 89, 650 BC: PlastDukeberg atteindra la taille 3 au prochain tour.


Finally, you'll find an updated test game attached.
 

Attachments

Mansa has 43 GNP from the espionage screen, also he has the most GNP of them all (demographics)
He should have 10into culture (2palace,1+1monuments, 5+1 religion, must have spread in the capital to be 15%), 4 from espionage. = 29science+gold.
So 24-25beakers/turn estimation looks plausible.
 
The safety of T48 Math depends on whether Mansa will go for Monotheism (quite high especially after IW) and the OF from CoL (which determines whether he could finish IW in 8 turns, size 6 capital indicated that Mansa's tech rate is on the higher range of my estimation).

@Bebekija

I have no other thing to add before completing Math. Make sure to check whether he research Monotheism in 2~3 turns.
 
One thing: I guess the settle should be put back in the culture borders to save 1gold (not sure though). He can settle next turn either way.
 
@Best : thx for the advice, 1g is 1g...


@all : stopped on T41 because something unexpected happened :
Mansa researched Meditation IBT 40-41.

Though I guess it secures the Maths for IW trade, it will delay IW so maybe we shouldn't count on it for T48.

Let me know if I'm clear to go on.
 
Meditation doesn't sound nice at any shape or form.
It's needed only for philosophy... I do truly hope the noob does not fancy researching philosophy. That would be truly bad luck.

Edit: actually if he was a turn away he might have completed it for the monasteries. So go on as planned.
 
No comment re. ceasefire (I'm not sure), but how much gold do we have banked?
 
Basically, Cease Fire when you see Iron Working for trade -or you feel something has gone wrong, e.g. a unit is in imminent danger cannot escape.
 
I'm ending T43 and we have 72 in bank, 40 bpt / -15 gpt, and 130 beakers into Maths.
IIrc, Duckweed said in an earlier post that we should CF when Mansa get Mono, or 4-5 turns after CoL. Since his tech path is different, I don't know if that still applies.
 
The idea is trying to influence his tech decision which we have been failing miserably up to now. Noob Mansa, We want that Iron Working, get it? Or we are going to kill you, ok we are going to kill you anyways!
 
I'm ending T43 and we have 72 in bank, 40 bpt / -15 gpt, and 130 beakers into Maths.
IIrc, Duckweed said in an earlier post that we should CF when Mansa get Mono, or 4-5 turns after CoL. Since his tech path is different, I don't know if that still applies.
The test run has the same BPT / GPT, but 73 gold in bank.

In the last PPP I wrote (if you're following this), I push the T48 Mathematics as hard as it can go without compromising growth elsewhere. On T47, we have 1G to spare:

T47, Mathematics coming in:

Spoiler :
ScreenShot2013-03-29at125831PM_zps6a999b06.jpg
So we're still on track, but can't drop any more from the test. Check the Galley last thing in each turn. If it saves us 1 gold inside our territory, we should move it back for that turn.
 
Stopped for the night at the end of T45.

I think you'll like what was lying in the fog.... :
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0169.jpg


So, as a result, I had to change the worker micro a little bit :
- Worker 1 and 2 are roading diffrerent tiles, namely the rice tile and the forest 2S1W of Mid City. Same number of worker turns, same movement afterwards, but a more direct route to C6, which is likely going to be S of the cows.
- The PPP proposed by Doshin didn't have anything listed for Worker 4 on T43, so basically I just applied his moves one turn early.

Here's an overview of our empire :
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0170.jpg



In terms of treasury, indeed it is likely that the galley spent one turn too much outside of our borders. However, compared to your plan (@Doshin) now we have one less worker out of the borders, so maybe it will compensate. Currently we hve 41g in bank.


Finally, a look at our diplo with MM :
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0171.jpg

He's now Furious at us, but I have no doubt that he'll like us again once we CF.


In terms of future worker micro, I think there's no point now rushing to the pigs in BB, it is unlikely that we will get IW on T48, probably around T50. So what I plan to do is road the forest 1NW of the capital, chop the forests East of it, *then* move one worker South, possibly roading the jungle NE of BB if there is time (it will spare one turn when moving to the Bananas).
 
:lol: We have been encountering low odd decision all the way.

Looking at the tech trade screen, Mansa definitely is not researching Monotheism atm. He is researching something big, hopefully IW.;). So, yes, we can sign peace treaty now.

Edit: I think we should wait until T48 so that he won't demand Alpha.
 
Good stuff. We do indeed save 1 GPT with Bebekija's T45 save because we have two additional units inside our borders compared to my version. This puts us back on track gold wise (1 gold buffer).

Bebekija, if you update the test, I can check that our micro still lets us hit a T48 Mathematics. I'd update it myself, but you've deviated from my version in a few places and I don't want to screw up.

Definitely agree about the absence of a need to hurry towards the BB Pigs. This just wastes two Worker turns trudging through the Jungle, when six other resource tiles are easily accessible outside of the peninsula (Ivory; Gems; Cow; Pig; Banana x2).

Does Bronze Beaver need to switch to a Granary this turn? In the test it has 16 :hammers: invested.

----

@Bebejika

More micro, all done in my head, so I hope I'm not off but I might be. You can correct my false assumptions.

The Settler is due to complete on T49. Worker movement needs to get this Settler ready and in place to settle a T50 city.

Worker 4 (2N of capital) needs to road the tile 2N of its current position next (T46, T47). It consumes 1.5 movement turns to get here from its present location, so it can't travel any further south. After that, it should move to the Ivory (T48) road and cancel (T49) We settle city #5 on T50, so it can either complete the road (lets another Worker move onto the tile) or start a camp. Unless another Worker helps out, he is ready to move elsewhere on T55.

Worker 6 completes on T46. Move him to the Forest 1NW. Road (T47, T48). On T49, move him 3N2E. This allows him to chop (1/3) on T50. He is ready to do stuff elsewhere on T53.

Therefore have Worker 4 finish the road before camping. This lets Worker 6 move onto the Ivory on T53 and finish the camp. Worker 4 and Worker 6 will be free to improve other tiles on T54.

Worker 3 completes the mine on T47. Move him 1SE and road and cancel on T48 (1/2). Chop the capital's Forest on T49 (1/3). On T50, move back 1NW, and finish the road (2/2). On T51, move onto the Gems. On T52-T53, build a road. On T54, move 2S2W. This Forest can be chopped into the Mids.

Worker 5 finishes his chop on T48. He has to burn a full turn of movement moving onto a road, which means (I think) he should move 1N2W, chop (2/3) and cancel (T49). After that, move him 3N2E (T50). He will finish chopping on T53. On T54, move 2S1W and chop (3/3... goes into an Axe or Settler). From there, he can move 4W onto that Forest. So don't chop that before, if possible.

All of this means that Workers 1 and 2 should chop the Forests 1N/1NW of Pyramid City, and then the Forests to the west, when the city's borders pop. A small benefit is that, with these Workers in place here, we can also road towards Mansa and establish trade routes (maybe).

In summary, on T54:

Workers 1 & 2. Chopping Forests 2W/1S2W of Pyramid City.
Worker 3. In place to chop 2N1E of Pyramid City.
Worker 4 & 6. Mining Gems (2/8)
Worker 5. Forest 2S of Ivory Bling now chopped.

---

Brief thought: if Mansa switches into Caste System, he might run an Artist specialist in his third city. If he does this early, we might not be able to chop the western forests at all. Hopefully he will stay in Slavery and give Pyramid City time to expand its borders.

Other thought: how soon do we need to settle the Pigs/Cow/Banana spot? Is Mansa going to prioritize this? What is his capital building right now?

Also, maybe make peace on T47, so we can make a Math/IW trade on T48, if it's available?
 
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