SGOTM 17 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Thinking about the stack in England again, that stack could just stay in place (i.e. 1NE of Can) instead of moving to jungle so that it could get healing for 1 extra turn. We have to take Can back so the healing is quite important. Churchill's SOD will take back Can 1st so that it won't be able to attack our stack.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Only if all units are part of SoD. If there is a lone unit, it can capture Can and than SoD can attack our troops. Churchill probably doesn't have unit courage for that.
We have to reinforce the WE with a LK this turn regardless. Churchill could have a spear in the shadow somewhere. I suggest using the C1 LK to scout 1S (to check the pig tile), then 2S (check 1S of pig tile) to finally move into Canterbury.
Next turn we'll probably have to evacuate the city unless Churchill miraculously wants to talk... but I think the earliest would be T151. (DoW T147 + 4).
Once he recaptures the city (IBT T150-151) he'll refuse to talk for a longer period of time however (8 turns)... assuming we take 2 turns to kill the SoD (~12 units), he should be willing to talk on that second turn (T152).
We can capture Satsuma either on T152 and have everything teleport - or do it earlier as suggested by Doshin.
IMO, it's better to capture it on T152 simply because most units (maybe 2~3 won't) will still have their movement points available. We can't really leave the city without garrison so his suggestion means all units would have to go into the jungle on T152. Units will be slightly more hurt but we want to be swift on Churchill so that 1 turn makes a big difference imo.
Next turn we'll probably have to evacuate the city unless Churchill miraculously wants to talk... but I think the earliest would be T151. (DoW T147 + 4).
Once he recaptures the city (IBT T150-151) he'll refuse to talk for a longer period of time however (8 turns)... assuming we take 2 turns to kill the SoD (~12 units), he should be willing to talk on that second turn (T152).
We can capture Satsuma either on T152 and have everything teleport - or do it earlier as suggested by Doshin.
IMO, it's better to capture it on T152 simply because most units (maybe 2~3 won't) will still have their movement points available. We can't really leave the city without garrison so his suggestion means all units would have to go into the jungle on T152. Units will be slightly more hurt but we want to be swift on Churchill so that 1 turn makes a big difference imo.
^ Yes, that's what I meant.
1. Churchill stack will target Can.
2. We have such a big stack in front of Can, so that he has to send enough units to defend it.
Therefore, the chance that his stack attacking us next turn is close to 0.
1. Churchill stack will target Can.
2. We have such a big stack in front of Can, so that he has to send enough units to defend it.
Therefore, the chance that his stack attacking us next turn is close to 0.
On Peter's end, we should be ready to DoW next turn (15 units for the west). The worker by Plastic Dock will board one of the galleons so that the necessary road can be done.
EDIT: (Or we could declare this turn and attack directly Vlad.)
We should probably keep Yakutsk because it serves as a port for unloading units. Same with Vladivostok... the rest can be razed or kept depending on how well the war progresses. Wouldn't want to add 1 turn to the game just to boost score.
The eastern stack will be ready very soon as well with another 15 units.
Further reinforcements will be split depending on how the war fares... we can also send some troops to northern Tokugawa, he has added a city overe here:
To be honest, I'm most worried by Tokugawa given his CG3 longbows that he'll keep producing. Those will eat a lot of Trebuchets... once the second stack gets to England, Churchill will be mostly broken already and we can take him via 2 stacks.
I've started making plans for another canal towards northern Peter (Rostov) so that the 2 main stacks can pretty much ignore it...
~20 turns should about wrap the game.
EDIT: (Or we could declare this turn and attack directly Vlad.)
We should probably keep Yakutsk because it serves as a port for unloading units. Same with Vladivostok... the rest can be razed or kept depending on how well the war progresses. Wouldn't want to add 1 turn to the game just to boost score.
The eastern stack will be ready very soon as well with another 15 units.
Further reinforcements will be split depending on how the war fares... we can also send some troops to northern Tokugawa, he has added a city overe here:
Spoiler :
To be honest, I'm most worried by Tokugawa given his CG3 longbows that he'll keep producing. Those will eat a lot of Trebuchets... once the second stack gets to England, Churchill will be mostly broken already and we can take him via 2 stacks.
I've started making plans for another canal towards northern Peter (Rostov) so that the 2 main stacks can pretty much ignore it...
~20 turns should about wrap the game.
High score: not much, it's mostly to avoid the Wooden Spoons
Yakutsk: true, we could unload galleons this turn 1E of it. Gains 2 movement points on 5 galleons, that's probably worth it.
Satsuma: the archer can be upgraded before we get a chance to kill it anyway. The only alternative I'll consider is to delay settling the city until Churchill wants to talk.
I tried out the teleportation and got this result (different from Doshin's):
Spoiler :
+The city tile is good for teleportation
-It takes 2 turns to reach Warwick
From what I can tell, my version will occur:
1) Doshin's attempt had MM culture around Canterbury (not sure why)
2) Doshin's attempt DoW'd instead of gifting the city
So we're delaying the capture and will attempt to leave only 1 wounded unit in the city for when Churchill wants to talk.
Bebekija
King
Agree to unload near Yakoutsk right now, given that the Eastern stack will have a shorter route anyway.
I have to admit I don't have a strong opinion on the attack date on Satsuma. As you may have guessed
mischief I'm still trying to figure out these teleportation plans in the first place, so....
Only thing I can say is that I don't quite see the point of taking it earlier if Churchill won't agree to talk to us, other than preventing Toku from building more units.
Since Churchill is probably a weaker target, maybe it is worth it delaying the capture of Warwick (and subsequent cities) for a couple of turns to gain those turns on the Japanese front.
....mmm...
I really don't know !!
Besides, it looks like kossin's and Doshin's tests are different, there are 3 different culture color in Doshin's test, not in kossin's, and I don't know if it could have an influence on the result.
Other than that, I also agree with most advice from Doshin, regarding the Chinese/Japanese wars (@Dosh, just one thing : what forest near Bronze Beaver?....)
I have to admit I don't have a strong opinion on the attack date on Satsuma. As you may have guessed
mischief I'm still trying to figure out these teleportation plans in the first place, so.... Only thing I can say is that I don't quite see the point of taking it earlier if Churchill won't agree to talk to us, other than preventing Toku from building more units.
Since Churchill is probably a weaker target, maybe it is worth it delaying the capture of Warwick (and subsequent cities) for a couple of turns to gain those turns on the Japanese front.
....mmm...
I really don't know !!Besides, it looks like kossin's and Doshin's tests are different, there are 3 different culture color in Doshin's test, not in kossin's, and I don't know if it could have an influence on the result.
Other than that, I also agree with most advice from Doshin, regarding the Chinese/Japanese wars (@Dosh, just one thing : what forest near Bronze Beaver?....)
After Tokyo we are through with Japan's hill cities. Chichen Itza offers nothing compared to the almighty Hill.
Consider using the CR III Mace, Drill IV Xbow, or a Combat III Elephant to crack the first defender. If the odds are really bad, use a LK. After that, the healthy Trebs will have a better chance or surviving, and, as long as they survive, they can continue to bombard the final cities and/or inflict collateral damage (0.1 health Treb does as much collateral, IIRC, as a full health Treb).
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If the Archer in Satsuma doesn't upgrade, see what the odds are like if you attack this turn. If we reduce the city to one crippled Archer, our Trebs can then heal while we wait for Churchill to talk. Newly whipped LBs will be unpromoted, and can be picked off as necessary.
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For Russia, the Western stack will most likely go:
Yakutsk ---> Yaroslav ---> St. Petersberg (I count 9 non-stop warring turns, inc. landing)
The Eastern:
Vladivostok ---> Yekta ---> Moscow (I count 8 non-stop warring turns, inc. landing)
St. Petersberg and Moscow have sufficient culture to slow any attack on Novogrod. There is a single roaded Floodplains that could save us a turn of movement. Both cities need to fall for us to use this.
After St. Petersberg and Moscow fall, both stacks are equally well positioned to attack Novogrod. We need to have one stack progressing one turn ahead of the other, which is what the natural tile order permits (all things being equal, Moscow will fall one turn sooner than St. Pete, meaning that the Moscow stack would, in an ideal world, proceed to Rostov).
However, I'd attack Yakutsk first to give us a slight buffer to start building the eastern stack. The two stacks should be roughly in sync. Yakutsk is a stronger city, harder for us to reach, and it takes longer to travel from Yakutsk ---> St. Petersberg than it does from Vlad ---> Moscow. Vladivostok is, by contrast, rubbish. We can make do with a smaller initial attack force and reinforce with troops as they come in.
Unloading 1E of Yak sounds fine. A Worker will be needed for that tile instead of the Plains Hill.
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@kossin
I just rechecked and you're right:
Sorry, I artificially added another AI's culture to clear away Sal's... and forgot to open borders with that AI (Mansa).
I agree that it is better to retain the movement point on the turn that we teleport.
Consider using the CR III Mace, Drill IV Xbow, or a Combat III Elephant to crack the first defender. If the odds are really bad, use a LK. After that, the healthy Trebs will have a better chance or surviving, and, as long as they survive, they can continue to bombard the final cities and/or inflict collateral damage (0.1 health Treb does as much collateral, IIRC, as a full health Treb).
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If the Archer in Satsuma doesn't upgrade, see what the odds are like if you attack this turn. If we reduce the city to one crippled Archer, our Trebs can then heal while we wait for Churchill to talk. Newly whipped LBs will be unpromoted, and can be picked off as necessary.
---
For Russia, the Western stack will most likely go:
Yakutsk ---> Yaroslav ---> St. Petersberg (I count 9 non-stop warring turns, inc. landing)
The Eastern:
Vladivostok ---> Yekta ---> Moscow (I count 8 non-stop warring turns, inc. landing)
St. Petersberg and Moscow have sufficient culture to slow any attack on Novogrod. There is a single roaded Floodplains that could save us a turn of movement. Both cities need to fall for us to use this.
After St. Petersberg and Moscow fall, both stacks are equally well positioned to attack Novogrod. We need to have one stack progressing one turn ahead of the other, which is what the natural tile order permits (all things being equal, Moscow will fall one turn sooner than St. Pete, meaning that the Moscow stack would, in an ideal world, proceed to Rostov).
However, I'd attack Yakutsk first to give us a slight buffer to start building the eastern stack. The two stacks should be roughly in sync. Yakutsk is a stronger city, harder for us to reach, and it takes longer to travel from Yakutsk ---> St. Petersberg than it does from Vlad ---> Moscow. Vladivostok is, by contrast, rubbish. We can make do with a smaller initial attack force and reinforce with troops as they come in.
Unloading 1E of Yak sounds fine. A Worker will be needed for that tile instead of the Plains Hill.
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@kossin
I just rechecked and you're right:
Spoiler :
Sorry, I artificially added another AI's culture to clear away Sal's... and forgot to open borders with that AI (Mansa).
I agree that it is better to retain the movement point on the turn that we teleport.
1NE is fine. The culture should drop away from both tiles:
I didn't take the river into account in my estimated march times (or healing, or bombard turns, it was v. rough), but I'd favor attacking across a river if the defenders are weak or limited in number.
If we do proceed from the tile 1NE, the Worker will also need to road the Forest 1SE of Yaroslav.
Spoiler :
I didn't take the river into account in my estimated march times (or healing, or bombard turns, it was v. rough), but I'd favor attacking across a river if the defenders are weak or limited in number.
If we do proceed from the tile 1NE, the Worker will also need to road the Forest 1SE of Yaroslav.
UnforcedError
Settler
FantasticAs predicted by Duckweed, Churchill is playing into our hands:
Spoiler :
