PolyCast Episode 222: "Fully Charged"

Ready to go. The two-hundred-and-twenty-second episode of PolyCast, "Fully Charged", features regular co-hosts Daniel "DanQ" Quick, "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and "MadDjinn" with first-time guest co-host Yan-Jie "Lord Tirian" Schnellbach. It carries a runtime of 59m59s.

The summary of topics is as follows:

- 01m08s | News
Details about the Winter 2015 patch for Civilization: Beyond Earth is revealed.
- 29m28s | Forum Talk
Whether being able to construct magrails should be a priority in CivBE, and a case for being able to embargo oneself in the game.
- 37m55s | Senate
How to utilize the Civilization: Beyond Earth espionage mechanic to its full potential (recorded for Episode 220).
- 45m13s | Miscellaneous
Surprises and reasoned supposition how every sponsor in CivBE is to be behave (recorded for Episode 220).

- Intro/Outro | Miscellaneous
What one panelist is distracted by and then what they no longer seem to have much of an interest in.

Recording live before a listening audience every other Saturday, PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production in an ongoing effort to give the Civ community an interactive voice on game strategy; listeners are encouraged to follow the show on Twitter, and check out the YouTube channel for caption capability. Sibling show RevCast focuses on Civilization: Revolution, ModCast on Civ modding, SCivCast on Civ social gaming and TurnCast on Civ multiplay.

Liked it. I did notice, however, that when you were talking about covert ops you seemed to assume that tech stealing is somehow dependent on the techs of your victim.
Now if I'm not mistaken there was a thread about that somewhere around and the consensus seemed to be that you just get one random tech you could research - with no regards to whether or not the player / AI you steal from actually knows this tech.

Actually found the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=542215

tedeviatings said:

Liked it.

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Thank you for listening. Out of curiosity how long have you been apart of the show's audience?

I did notice, however, that when you were talking about covert ops you seemed to assume that tech stealing is somehow dependent on the techs of your victim.
Now if I'm not mistaken there was a thread about that somewhere around and the consensus seemed to be that you just get one random tech you could research - with no regards to whether or not the player / AI you steal from actually knows this tech.

Actually found the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=542215

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We were not making that assumption, though we did not specify on the mechanic one way or the other like we did with respect to "stealing" beakers. (I cannot help but put "stealing" in quotation marks here, as I did in the episode, because there is no beaker deduction in the case of a successful target hit.)

Guten Tag!

I noticed I was quoted on Polycast and thus joined the ranks of the famous people, so I wanted to report here to collect my internet money.

...on a more serious note: Another enjoyable episode!
One thing about the wonder discussion makes me wonder (no pun intended), though: What is the usual BE playstile for the Polycast members?

Because ever since I switched my strategy from mass-terrascaping to academy spam, I often end up with building just a single wonder throughout the whole game - and that's the affinity-related one that I need to win. I guess the main reason for that is the win timer: I usually finish around turn 225 these days (and I guess if you are a good player and micromanage your stuff properly you can cut that down to turn ~210) - and with such a short game time, most wonders seem to have either too much of an opportunity cost (early game) or lack time to have enough impact on the game (mid/late game). More often than not I rather convert science or food in my cities instead of building a wonder...

It would be interesting if you could discuss how the BE victory conditions work out in practice in on one of the upcoming episodes. Not just what you have to do, but also how you get there. I think that is one of the biggest bugbears of BE at the moment. As it is, most of my games seem to devolve into "research some early game stuff -> get academies -> beeline all your affinity techs and ignore everything else", while your wonder discussion seemed to indicate that people actually take tech-detours to unlock wonders, mag rails & other stuff.

DanQ said:

Thank you for listening. Out of curiosity how long have you been apart of the show's audience?

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This was the second episode I listened to. The first one was 219 talking about the BE patch I believe (which was what made me notice polycast in the first place).

DanQ said:

We were not making that assumption, though we did not specify on the mechanic one way or the other like we did with respect to "stealing" beakers. (I cannot help but put "stealing" in quotation marks here, as I did in the episode, because there is no beaker deduction in the case of a successful target hit.)

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Aye, misunderstanding then, my bad. That whole talk about stealing the wonder tech you just researched from you probably lead me to believe that... Though you're right to say that doesn't mean you just finished researching it is a requirement for the tech steal.

DanQ said:

We were not making that assumption, though we did not specify on the mechanic one way or the other like we did with respect to "stealing" beakers. (I cannot help but put "stealing" in quotation marks here, as I did in the episode, because there is no beaker deduction in the case of a successful target hit.)

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You actually do, at 44:20 - and seem to all agree on that mechanic, as you go into details on how to use it. ^^ It's sad that it doesn't work that way, because it absolutely should imho. Though if I read the lua correctly (which I may not), then the script does give bonus value to both, less expensive techs (*2) and techs that match up with the affinity of the person you steal from (*1,5), so it does at least try to "emulate" a system where you really steal from the other Civ.

Anyway, yeah, very interesting episode. I especially agree with the notion that there definitely SHOULD be some kind of reason to defend even against early spy operations.

I really hope you're wrong about the wonders not keeping their base yields though. If that's the case, then most of these changes are ultimately quite useless - even if wonders become really cheap.

GAGA Extrem said:

Guten Tag!

I noticed I was quoted on Polycast and thus joined the ranks of the famous people, so I wanted to report here to collect my internet money.

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tedeviatings said:

This was the second episode I listened to. The first one was 219 talking about the BE patch I believe (which was what made me notice polycast in the first place).

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Welcome then, new listener.

tedeviatings said:

That whole talk about stealing the wonder tech you just researched from you probably lead me to believe that... Though you're right to say that doesn't mean you just finished researching it is a requirement for the tech steal.[/i]

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Ryika said:

You actually do, at 44:20 - and seem to all agree on that mechanic, as you go into details on how to use it.

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Listening again at the mark cited, yes, I in fact do say specifically that successfully stealing a technology results in a technology the "target" has researched becoming yours too -- so it is I who must stand corrected. Now, to append to the discussion myself below.

In the case of stealing technology it would be better if it was/is any technology that the 'capturing' sponsor could research, for then you a) could exercise control on what technology is obtained, b) would never be in a situation a la Civilization V where one could have "esclipsed" the target in research and c) could justify the Medium risk level to your covert operative for carrying it out... especially as compared to the Low risk for stealing beakers. Yes, you could still choose the most expensive technology you can research the turn before the beaker steal is to be carried out, so as to get the greatest total yield possible, but you would still need to successfully carry that out four times before completing the technology as noted on the episode. Even if your covert ops were all successful each time, you would have to wait the covert ops turn interval four times in order to receive that technology as compared to possibly just once with a technology steal.

... yeah, very interesting episode.

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GAGA Extrem said:

Another enjoyable episode!

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One thing about the wonder discussion makes me wonder (no pun intended), though: What is the usual BE playstile for the Polycast members?

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Well, if no pun was intended why would be bother to...

For myself, as in Civilization V I pursue Domination.

It would be interesting if you could discuss how the BE victory conditions work out in practice in on one of the upcoming episodes. Not just what you have to do, but also how you get there.

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Suggeston noted.

Welcome then, new listener.

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Thanks

In the case of stealing technology it would be better if it was/is any technology that the 'capturing' sponsor could research, for then you a) could exercise control on what technology is obtained, b) would never be in a situation a la Civilization V where one could have "esclipsed" the target in research and c) could justify the Medium risk level to your covert operative for carrying it out... especially as compared to the Low risk for stealing beakers. Yes, you could still choose the most expensive technology you can research the turn before the beaker steal is to be carried out, so as to get the greatest total yield possible, but you would still need to successfully carry that out four times before completing the technology as noted on the episode. Even if your covert ops were all successful each time, you would have to wait the covert ops turn interval four times in order to receive that technology as compared to possibly just once with a technology steal.

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I'm not 100% sure on what you're saying. Are you suggesting to - upon successfully completing the "steal tech" mission - let the player chose one tech of his choice out of all the techs he can research? Or are you saying that you hope the player gets - upon successfully ... - a random tech out of all the techs he can research? Or something else altogether? Would be great if you could clarify

tedeviatings said:

Thanks

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I'm not 100% sure on what you're saying. Are you suggesting to - upon successfully completing the "steal tech" mission - let the player chose one tech of his choice out of all the techs he can research? Or are you saying that you hope the player gets - upon successfully ... - a random tech out of all the techs he can research? Or something else altogether? Would be great if you could clarify

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I am saying what you first suggested I was saying: let the player choose one technology of their choice out of all of the technologies they can research.

Thanks for clarifying. It would definitely be more intuitive and better. It's too weak right now so that's a good thing, though my first reaction is rating it as "too strong". Then again that's only speculation and I believe such things should be thoroughly tested instead of endlessly argued about. And it would be pretty easy to adjust its power by changing success chances or time needed.

tedeviatings said:

Thanks for clarifying.

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Welcome.

... I believe such things should be thoroughly tested instead of endlessly argued about.

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I agree that at a certain point in such discussions, testing is required to go further.